KATANA vs RAPIER - Which sword is better?

[@vraku9624]

There is a japanese guy that gave a rapier and a buckler to a japanese master, without any prior training on it. And he himself said that defeating a rapier with a katana is doable, but very hard. Lets ask Seki Sensei its the channel, you should have a look and mby a reaction video?

[@NorseGraphic]

I watched that video to. He got the hang of it quickly.

[@devnull1200]

Which is kinda interesting because rapiers have to be wielded with the wrist, otherwise they can hurt and tire you down easily. It just works differently to other swords, making it remarkable for someone not trained on it to basically reset their muscle memory

[@deviancepurplehaze6045]

I like that Seiki sensei asked for a real one almost immediately. A true master at arms!

[@ArcticGator]

came here to say this, it was a very interesting video

[@gameragodzilla]

I love that guy’s channel.

[@rmcclure21]

So we actually tested the longsword vs. rapier thing in my HEMA group a few years ago. I’m the local rapier expert, having formerly competed with the foil, and another guy was the local longsword expert. We’re about evenly matched in training and skill overall. We stopped after I landed 10 consecutive kills on him. If someone is well trained with a rapier, especially with very well trained point control, it’s very difficult to beat them with any other sword 1v1. I trained my point control by thrusting through the centers of 2 inch rings, and I considered it a failure if the ring moved. So yeah, I got to be very, very accurate with that thing, and it paid off in bouts. But the part I think wasn’t really explored that much was how a rapier requires MUCH more training to become proficient with than a longsword. Give two novices a rapier and a longsword, and I’m betting on the longsword wielder. With mediocre training, it’s probably about evenly matched. Expert vs. expert, I’m putting at least 5/1 odds on the rapier user. That said, I’d pick a longsword all day in a battlefield setting if my choices were between the two. Of course, I’d pick a halberd over either if I had the choice… but a rapier is more designed for duels, as Shad pointed out.

[@FiliiMartis]

In a battlefield setting, I would hope to be the guy using the rapier. Chances are that I'm not a grunt, and I would have a personal guard that uses longswords (and guns). Officers and nobility did use rapiers in battles around and after 1600s. But also, some didn't and used basket-hilt swords instead, while others had broad-blades on rapier style hilts (so a broadsword). Btw, we have a lot of 1600s and later paintings showing men in armour with rapiers at their sides. And around that time we also have rapiers issued to guards (so a militia issued weapon; e.g. rapier of the guard of the Prince Electors of Saxony).

[@rmcclure21]

@ Well sure, in the historical/cultural context, I’d rather be a wealthy person with a bodyguard too! Who wouldn’t? And I mean, if we’re going to include other people and weapons that are not being compared on the video, I’d prefer to have a modern infantry battalion, supported by an armor detachment, artillery, and close air support. That’ll show those peasants! But my comments there were expressly related to the relative functionality of a longsword and rapier in different combat contexts. And, if one is forced to use one of those two in a mass combat setting, I’d pick the longsword, because it’s easier to offend larger groups, target different sides without significant stance changes, and so on. A rapier shines when you can line up with one opponent and focus on them, whereas a longsword is more like a jack-of-all-trades type sword.

[@derGhebbet]

You do that, I'll take gun and shovel. =P

[@theodoreharrold9875]

Ive seen something similar on a small KZbin channel were they were testing different sword types against each other, longsword and rapier were pretty even but the longsword guy was often able to overpower the rapier guy, and ended up winning by a point or two

[@FiliiMartis]

@@rmcclure21 Didn't you mentioned a halbert? Now you're bringing in air support.😅 But seriously, I did want to point out that the rapier was actually used in combat (while the use of the longsword was actually on its way out and used more by bodyguards; I guess for intimidation; guns took over more and more the role of breaking infantry structures). But at the same time, other weapons were emerging for the early-mid 1600s battlefield use and people tested different uses for them, which is more interesting. I would also say that ignoring the historical circumstance reduces the discussion to fantasy (and we can have air support if you want).

[@CristiNeagu]

1:17 "Is it a fair matchup?" I don't think there's really such a thing as a fair matchup against a rapier. Also, don't forget, this isn't just about reach. The rapier is a narrow, straight blade. You can't see it. As Seki Sensei himself said, they're scary weapons to have pointed at you. It's demoralising your opponent before the fight even starts properly.

[@mustangmckraken1150]

The width and weight could actually make a big difference, katana is easier to follow than narrow blade thrusts.

[@blazeburner4039]

Maybe a spear?

[@mikeconlon3246]

yes i would have thought a spear would have an advantage over a rapier, or really any kind of polearm where you can one up the rapier in terms of reach. like a halberd may be able to knock the rapier to the side being weightier and then thrust. but these are battlefield weapons rather than duelling weapons. still if you were to put them against each other i think the polearm wins out most of the time.

[@adamwu4565]

@@mikeconlon3246 A rapier is basically the closest to an actual spear that you can make a sword, and still keep it (just barely) convenient enough to carry around to count as a sidearm.

[@FantasyForms3D]

@@mikeconlon3246 I would think that parrying a hard strike from a halberd with your rapier would put a quick end to your rapier

[@daniho6223]

dear Tyranth, there's a reason why the falchion and messer gave way in duelling to a rapier. The rapier simply was the more effective duel weapon. If the katana was a more effective dueling weapon, then the messer would have been the favorite weapon for duels in the renaissance, not the rapier.

[@FiliiMartis]

I agree with your reasoning. But there's a caveat. The sabre is inferior to the rapier in a duel (let's go with that), but it was the duelling weapon of the 1800s. So familiarity and spread of use is a factor, not just which one is better.

[@PeregrinTintenfish]

That was much debated at the time. George Silver wrote a treatise about why (in his opinion) the rapier sucked. It is called "The Paradox of Defense"

[@daniho6223]

@FiliiMartis because it is much easier to use, easier to carry and it was a better weapon for people on horseback. The wars of the 1800s demanded for mass produceable weapons, so they used what they had. Of course military standards also came into play at that time. There's better weapons than military issue rifles today, it's all a question of how quickly you can equip people with said weapons. Those standards were the reason why duelling weapons changed to sabers. Also it's a lot easier to maintain a saber than it is to maintain a rapier. What you said is absolutely correct though, but only further proves my point. If people change their favorite weapon to a new one that requires different training, it's for quite the substantial reason, usually. Rapiers in duels were mostly used with no armor, otherwise probably a poleaxe or bec de corbin would have been the weapon of choice, if duels were fought in full plate at that time. In the end it comes down to speed and reach in a duel between two roughly equally skilled fighters, and there the rapier clearly is much better than the katana. We also need to take into account that the Japanese didn't usually use spring steel, which is another reason for why blades could become longer and narrower in Europe, the steel made it possible. You cannot differentially harden a rapier, it needs to be spring steel. Moreover, Japanese culture played a HUGE role in their choice of weapons and armor, whereas in Europe, the philosophy was more practically oriented, hence why swords in Europe changed much more than in Japan, where the katana kept being more of a status symbol and death was viewed differently than in Europe, where we didn't really see a culture where shame is more offensive than death.

[@daniho6223]

@@PeregrinTintenfish well yes, that is clearly why it became so prevalent. If it really sucked, people wouldn't have used it. And yes, it may suck for defending against a katana, but if you have a reach advantage, you don't really need to defend a lot. Try sparring against a longer blade and you'll quickly see you're at a substantial disadvantage.

[@FiliiMartis]

@@PeregrinTintenfish Except that George Silver used rapiers: it covered the hand with sweeps, you could finger the cross-guard (Italian like, some would say, and unlike English basket-hilts), it could thrust and had a long blade. He called it the (English) shortsword to distinguish himself from Italians (competition). It was more marketing than debate. Yea, he made a big deal about being able to turn inside a dagger, but I tried that with a 114cm long blade, and I was able to do it easily (by sure, I would fail with a 132cm long blade, so I just moved the bar up). I'll need to check properly if I can use a long Italian rapier with G.Silver (there may be other constraints). Btw. I'm curious is Silver knew of the sidesword, which was also called a rapier by some in those times.

[@LuxFerre4242]

An important point you missed: the off-hand. Being a one-handed sword opens up your other hand for a dagger or buckler.

[@Firety11]

Ikr, thats always the elephant in the room whenever I hear these discussions! Off hand weapons are a game changer and can swiftly throw the balance back towards 1 handed weapons. One caveat I would like to add however is the katana was historically used with off hand weapons as well. Although you can argue it's not as optimised for it.

[@LuxFerre4242]

@Firety11 My initial thought was that using the katana one-handed to hold something in the off-hand makes it too unwieldy and would be more of a disadvantage than just using it two-handed but I thought I'd try anyway. After a bit of experimentation, I'd say I was mostly right, although a big shield is enough to balance the disadvantage. Granted, if the rapier was combined the same shield, we'd be back to it dominating, probably more so.

[@PeregrinTintenfish]

You can duel wield katanas

[@christophpoll784]

​​@@PeregrinTintenfish only if your Name is Kirito! To be honest, we tested that in our Iaido-group. And you are hitting your second sword quite often if you fight with two equally long swords. There is a reason why the wakizashi and/or tanto was also carried around. But even if you only have one katana only, you can still use the saya/scabbard to knock off the main sword of the opponent. Not often maybe, as they are quite light wood.

[@ligonapProduktion]

In a 1:1 duel, I would always choose the rapier as it has greater reach and flexibility.

[@BeachedArmor]

For 1h i agree, but these are so hard to compaire. Time period and situation (duel v battlefield for example. I Wouldnt want to fight with a rapier against a halbert (example)

[@Yoda2422]

Well i practice kenjutsu in an old Japanese fencing school and in that school we use longer swords for example our leader has a katana with a 95cm cutting edge and as for the “but the guard is so small” that’s mostly the standard size of mass produced swords but with antique pieces there are Tsuba that are much larger than that some the size of a small plate

[@shanus11]

i prob say the same but would a heavier 2 handed longsword be able to just overpower the rapier with a 2 handed strike, knock the blade away and make the killing striker? could a guy using 1 hand on the rapier contain the power of a 2 handed longsword strike? yea rapier would have slight reach but I would try just smashing the rapier with power out of reach to my body to throw them off balance and follow up with a strike, also if you end up blade on blade 2 hands would be too strong and more than likely you're gonna overpower them

[@redtiger7268]

Your points are valid. A girl I knew started dating a fencing champion and he was running his mouth about my art being trash and how he could easily beat me. Using mock swords I attacked his hand and then rushed in for the take down. I had in on the ground in under 2 seconds from the start of the match. He was then powerless. He than started complaining about "rules" and I told him "In a real life or death situation there are no rules"

[@snowywhistle2114]

@@shanus11 not exactly, but kind of. because of the rapiers shape, you could easily put your hand on the blade (with gloves) to reinforce your block, giving you that 2 hand structure. also a rapier is a one handed weapon, and as such you can use a shield in your off hand. a shield, no matter how small, will block an attack no matter how strong. also unless were talking about an armored fight (which would be an entirely different fight) each person is respecting the other ones threat. neither person wants to be hit and a rapier can thrust faster than a long sword can cut. that means that unless the long sword can forcibly make an opening, going for a two handed cut isn't safe, and wouldn't happen.

[@hirluinthefair4335]

Now I feel like you need to do a test for precision thrusting with a rapier vs a longsword.

[@michaelcassidy5200]

Even seki sensai said even he wouldn't want to go head to head against a rapier.

[@fettmaneiii4439]

What I find with many rapiers, modern made ones, is that they lack a real true edge on them. I have personally made a rapier size blade, and made it a fully flat grind to zero, relaxed diamond cross section, and hit it with a diamond stone finish. That thin in profile blade is so sharp and ready to cut... you put your finger on it and it feels like it wants to get in so bad. I honestly just think that many modern rapiers are simply just not made with high attention to detail in the martial quality of the blade grinds themself.

[@fettmaneiii4439]

the reasons why rapiers predominantly don't cut as well as a wide stiff made is because when striking out near the tip the a rapier, the whole blade bends and ends up scalloping your cut by changing the edge alignment as the shock of the cut is absorbed in the blade via bending.

[@Riceball01]

@@fettmaneiii4439 That's likely because the rapiers you're encountering are based on ones with blades optimized purely for the thrust with no consideration for butting. After all, rapier blades came in many sizes and shapes with some having very little to not cutting capacity with others being able to cut reasonably well even if more optimized for thrusting.

[@edwardscott3262]

I worked in a tool and die shop. You can make a 90° edge really sharp. We had to do it all the time to make dies and keep them working. Even relatively blunt blade profiles can cut. They won't cut deep but being able to bloody your opponent is something you'd want. Especially when it doesn't cost anything compared to leaving the edges dull.

[@shelbybayer200]

​@@fettmaneiii4439 Heavy Misconception. Rapiers can actually cut just as good as any other blade

[@robertjensen1438]

What does a sword and a musical instrument have in common? They both know how to b sharp.

[@wa-bu3ke]

oooo

[@Ithirahad]

B sharp is C natural; any non chromatic instrument in a key without C natural (Dmaj/Bmin, Emaj/C#min, Amaj/F#min, some of the other sharp/flat keys) doesn't 'know how' to play that note. (Flutes with finger holes manage anyway, though)

[@danorris5235]

​@@IthirahadOh, yeah, because let's just gloss over how the entirety of musical theory works to ignore integral core concepts like why instruments are assigned keys in the first place and why they're scored in such a manner to refer to Concert pitches to begin with in order to, "Uuurhm, well, aaaaaaachtuaalllllllllleeeeee," what is obviously a dad joke that not only makes perfect sense, denies less than 1/100th the reality you need to ignore for your claim to even begin making practical sense within the confines of reality. Dude, if you were formally schooled you best get your money back right now and try again. If you're self taught start over. You missed the bulk of the material.

[@jlan7844]

Wow. From the replies it looks like this pun fell flat...

[@trathanstargazer6421]

Ooo! One thing you need to watch is robinswords video on his dream sword. He basically commissioned a longsword but with a rapier guard. It is wicked cool!

[@ShieldWife]

For a one on one lightly armored duel? The rapier. The katana is essentially a cavalry saber, that people sometimes duel with. On the battlefield, the katana may have an advantage just as the saber was more often used in battle than the rapier.

[@EngineerOfChaos]

It makes me wonder about katana vs saber then since they are both curved shorter swords. I feel katanas have the greater power but with sabers being one-handed swords, things may be better with them

[@occultnightingale1106]

The Cavalry Saber is actually lighter in the hand and oriented towards one-handed wielding, while the Katana is definitely designed for two-handed wielding. The only thing the two swords have in common is that they're single-edged curved swords. Everything else is radically different.

[@GreasyBeasty]

The saber would likely have the advantage for the same reason the rapier does, the handguard nearly encompasses the wielder's hand​@@EngineerOfChaos

[@azchris1979]

cavalry saber? 2 handed? Doin an Avatar thing with the horse or what?

[@jeremyyerger7527]

Over 20 years ago, at college, we tested this with the kendo club vs the fencing club. The fencing club absolutely slaughtered the kendo club. I think the tally ended around 42-2 or some other terribly lopsided score. We all wore proper safety gear and used bamboo practice swords as the katana stand-in vs fencing foils. Was quite fun and interesting. As I was in both clubs and experienced with both, i will say the reach advantage of a rapier is really, really hard to contend with.

[@michaelkeha]

I mean if you are talking olympic fencing foil that's not really a fair one

[@brandonnowonline6533]

This has nothing to do with Katana vs Rapier. It has everything to do with Thrust vs Slash. I think Thrust is honestly more deadly. Sometimes slashes can be superficial, Stabs are almost always deadly. The reach advantage, the speed advantage and the deadly advantage makes Rapier the easy choice for me personally. Swinging a Katana is obviously more heavy than a rapier and most times require two hands. With a Rapier you can change your stance for extra reach while remaining just as deadly with only a single hand. Edit: Oh wow Shad even brought up the 2handed vs 1 hand with stance change and a reach. Like minded i see :P

[@atk9989]

Eh from what iv seen there are multiple records of people dueling with rapiars running each other through, both walking away from it and then passing of sepsis or internal bleeding days or weeks later. Serious cuts take more than just a bandage to not die without hours of. The fact in a duel of longsword verse rapair that the longswordsman has a high percentage change of taking a stab to then decapitate the rapair guy and still be able to go and write his will afterwards is kinda a huge point against the stab damage.

[@PeregrinTintenfish]

Yes, thrusts are more dangerous. In Germany they switched from thrust swords to slashing swords for student duels in order to reduce deaths. A thrust is also riskier for the thruster. As he must extend himself more and then pull back. This creates an opening for an opponent to strike.

[@michaelkeha]

Seeing how many people we have records from in prisons, gangs etc getting stabbed dozens of times and living with sometimes some fucking long and mean blades that's not even true hell it's not even true with gunshots just look at police break downs and see how often someone eats multiple mags and is still kicking

[@christophpoll784]

Katanas are for cutting, not slashing! You try to find the weak Spot (e.g. the armpit) and give the enemy a cut there. You are not whaxking away with a katana like you do with a Messer or longsword

[@tommern84]

I saw a video of a Japanese sword master testing a Rapier and he loved how it felt and it's perfect balance etc BUT he said something interesting. He was afraid of the sword when he realized how hard it was to see where the tip of the blade was. Because it is so long, slim,a deadly sharp tip and accurate. It was very hard to block and see where it was during a attack. I don't know much about swords, but I can imagine it off putting and scary during a battle

[@blumiu2426]

His style always has the sword in front of opponents eye level to hide length, so it would be an extreme advantage. It was more impressive to see how he could stop it and it's weakness, though a challenge to do unless get from the point or use it's length against it.

[@synthemagician4686]

Another scary part is that that extra range can be used with a movement of the arm, and doesn't require as much footwork, leaning. The sword arm moves faster than the rest of the body. You can just extend straight towards the enemy with your arm, and then lean. This gets you massive range almost instant, no tell, no chance to react. The instant the enemy has the lunge set up, you've lost before they even move their sword.

[@avatarkhali8673]

You forgot that the rapier wielder can also wield a buckler or sword catcher. That's one of its biggest advantages. One handed, but just as effective (or more effective than) other 2-handed weapons. Even if the other hand has nothing, it can be used as a counterbalance to make one more nimble.

[@tabull8180]

There is a reason why its always portrayed with buckler or such, but in actual duel if other tools were allowed against random weapons, you would take kite shield or such bigger shield to the other hand. Point being that you are absolutely correct, that is great strenght of rapier.

[@Nathan-vt1jz]

And the winner is…. The Spear! The reigning champion of melee weapons does it again! Huzzah!

[@baeber]

wooooo the spear

[@chrishandsome7012]

Hey man, wanted to let you know everyone appreciates your videos. Whatever you decide to do in the future, I beg you to never give up on the channel

[@Sypher474]

9:56 is one of the funniest moments I've ever seen on this channel. Good move keeping it in

[@adamczechowski614]

Brought a tear to my eye =D

[@IanGerritsen]

An elegant weapon, for a more civilized age.

[@skeome]

3:37 Shad, if you want an intermediary between a longsword and a rapier, I'd highly recommend trying out the Chinese Jian. It's a longsword with a similar profile, weight and balance to a rapier. ... The only thing is the guard. A lot of reproduction jian are based on the Han dynasty style (longer, rounder handle, smaller guard). If you invest in a jian, LK Chen makes accurate Ming and Qing style jian, so I'd start there, even though RoM has jian, they're mostly Han and all of them are "fantastical" (there's one that looks really good, except it has double fullers that aren't historically accurate, changing the blade profile) Also, the way you're meant to grip the jian is remarkably similar to the way you grip the rapier. First finger goes on (or over) the guard, thumb is on your middle finger, and your ring and pinky are for support/power (close your hand at the end of your extension to get more snap). Do not hammer grip a jian, lol As a side note, I will start working with metal very soon, and I'm hoping to make affordable but quality swords (if I don't fall into another depression/ can't get out of this one by the time I have what I need)

[@ronnyweinreich]

Rapiers are by far my favorit swords for years, and don't forget the off hand dagger. :D

[@Grandwigg]

I loved this video. And the conversations in the comments were fascinating and great to read. I only wish I had something useful to say beyond, "I very much enjoyed this video"

[@CarlylePhelps]

I love that this video posted today. I’ve been pricing out sword combat instructors with a focus on the rapier. I find its nimbleness and potential for accuracy very appealing.

[@Roland3ld]

Here is the usual full support for channel growth.

[@Doctor-Ego]

I have been waiting for a nother rapier weapon video Thanks guys :)

[@christianguest63]

I would love to see a prototype for an O-Katana with either a fancy Rapier hilt or maybe a fencing rapier 🤺 bucket hilt and cross-guard with a counterweight pommel for partial 2 handing. I don’t think it will be perfect but if it’s anything like a cutlass or kriegsmesser it could be incredible. Even a simple wooden cutout just for theory crafting would be great.

[@shadowcat6lives639]

After watching this, I hypothesize that there is a dimensional aspect to which is better based on the situation with the Rapier doing better in one-to-one combat to the katana doing better in a war like scenario

[@gloatinglizard1]

In college I had a friend who was actively training in foil fencing. He wanted to spar against me but my only training was in kendo. Learned very quickly that the two sparring styles are incompatible, I wanted to be able to step to the side and he insisted upon remaining in a line like western fencing. So it came down to whomever managed to get the point of their blade into scoring position first with a thrust and based on the kendo en garde stance I literally just had to straighten my arms to win each time.

[@dragons_advocate]

Both? Both. Both is good!

[@section9809]

Katana vs Munich Town Guard sword is the best match.

[@DoomGuy20]

Finally a debate I can get behind. A clash between titans, that are the very opposite in almost every way possible

[@johnfarscape]

We tried out pretty much every sword type we could think of years ago with reenactment groups from all over Europe, unsurprisingly the rapier users almost always won, when we took them out of the competition, looking for 2nd place, it was actually the basket handled sabres that came in 2nd, then the cutlass, again with full hand protection, Katanas were quite low in the rankings, this was due to always getting hit on the fingers as well as the shorter reach, even with steel gauntlets the impact to the hand was painful, from just a few days of experimenting, it was pretty clear that hand protection was a surprisingly important part of a sword.

[@SaltyMaverick]

Oh hey, I wrote an essay in college comparing and contrasting these together a long time ago. Didn't expect you guys to do this.

[@jacobhougham570]

Scholagladiatoria did a video on this. His conclusion was that one on one, the rapier wins almost every time, but things change on the battle field. A katana's powerful cut gives it better crowd control. The rapier is the king of duals, but it isn't very versatile in more chaotic situations.

[@VTPSTTU]

Thanks for the video. I'm an American. For those who want to be persnickety, I'm a USA citizen. Even before I had any skill with any weapon, if I'm presented with a table full of weapons and asked to pick the one that I will use to defend my life, I'm generally reaching for a gun. Over the course of my life, I've had a relatively small amount of gun training and a pretty good amount of gun practice. If I'm presented with a table full of weapons and told to pick one to save my life, I'm generally reaching for a gun. I have no training with swords, so that fact reinforces my decision to reach for a gun. I'm a gun guy. Having said that, I will offer some caveat to Shad's argument about whether a gun is always "better" than a sword. At a primitive level, a flintlock musket is generally better than any sword at long range. The army firing the muskets can make hits at hundreds of yards. With volley fire, that army can start to thin the ranks of the opponents before the opponents can inflict any damage with only bladed weapons. Once the army with bladed weapons is at contact distance, long swords, katanas, or even rapiers might be better than muskets with bayonets and would certainly be better than muskets that must be used as clubs. In one-on-one battle, hitting an opponent at long range with a musket isn't all that easy. The opponent could close the distance, and if the first shot misses, the bladed-weapon opponent might be at contact distance before the musket-armed opponent can reload. At short range, aiming a flintlock musket could be too slow. Hitting with the first shot isn't assured, and the musket-armed opponent will not have time to reload. The less reliable firing of a flintlock musket is a factor. A flintlock pistol is handier to aim at short distances, but hitting at longer distances is just luck. This fight isn't a sure thing for the opponent having one of these primitive guns. At the low capacity of cartridge-firing revolver, the opponent armed with a gun has the advantage of reliability and usually good stopping power at short distances. However, reloading is still fairly slow. In the anxiety of a real fight, many people have missed shots with handguns at short distances. The gun is better. Even if I'm facing a mob of people, I'd rather have a firearm than any sword. A few years ago, a man tried to defend himself against a mob using a katana. The mob killed him without any of the attackers being seriously injured. Even with a five-shot revolver, he would likely have killed at least one of the attackers. The thought of dying might have caused each individual in the mob to refuse to come into contact distance. In a melee type of fight where one must face dozens of opponents but not more than one or two at a time, I could see where a longsword might be a better choice than a revolver. One would need to be supremely skilled with the sword to survive the melee, but the sword would never be out of action for reloading. Obviously, the gun becomes useless if one doesn't have spare ammunition. When we move to guns that load from standard capacity box magazines, finding advantages for the sword becomes much harder. If one thinks of those firearms when saying "gun," then Shad's retort shows the overwhelming advantage of a gun. I'm no great shooter, but with a quality, "duty-sized" pistol, using compatible ammunition, and having four or five magazines to reload, I have a chance in quite a few scenarios. Granted, a huge crowd could overwhelm me, but most people don't like to face being shot. If I know that they are attacking, I'm going to start making torso hits when they are fifty to eighty yards away. I'll miss some at that range, but I will make hits. When they get into that twenty-five to fifty yard range, I'll be making more torso hits. They won't be perfect hits in the center of the torso, but they will be torso hits. Within twenty-five yards, I'm making mostly torso hits. If they are insane in their determination to attack, they will overwhelm me eventually, but in many scenarios, people who see their comrades falling so quickly will withdraw. If I come to the table and find no guns, I tend to agree with Ty that the first bladed weapon I'd grab would be the longsword or hand-a-half sword. As you both mentioned, if the fight turns into me having to swing wildly at a rush of attackers, I like the greater cutting capacity of the longsword over a rapier and the greater range of a longsword over a katana. I even agree with Ty about the greater value of the longsword hilt over the tsuba of a katana. In a one-on-one fight, the rapier might be the better choice for the skilled swordsman, but as someone with no training and no skills, the longsword is probably the better natural weapon for me. To get to the specific comparison of this video, I don't know whether I'd choose the rapier or the katana. If I know that I'm facing multiple attackers, I probably grab the katana. In that kind of fight, I can imagine myself striking wildly in a panic, and the katana will give me a better chance to hurt my attackers in that scenario. I probably die anyway, but I have a "puncher's chance" of hurting enough of them to escape. Again, I think the katana is a more natural weapon for an untrained person like me. If I'm offered the long katana, I'd certainly make that choice. If I know that I'm facing a single opponent, I probably pick the rapier. Even though I don't have skill, I would want the range. That the rapier can cut means that I still have cuts as an option to use against my lone attacker. The more effective hand protection would also be good for someone like me. Knowing that the spring steel is a higher quality is somewhat of a factor although I don't think the fight would last long enough or be varied enough for the katana to be bent or broken if I chose the katana.

[@Tunturisorsa]

what tyranth is referring to at 6:40 is absolutely something that is practiced in kenjutsu. there are also other ways to use the curvature to for example deflect while stabbing simultaneously.

[@joshuawilliams4741]

A wise man once said, “Aw shit! Here we go again!”

[@Blackpheonix99]

Drinking game for his and shads videos... Take a shot Everytime Tyranth says "caveat"

[@EatWave]

Of course skill can make up for disadvantages. Miyamoto Musashi killed a swordsman in a duel using a sharpened boat oar. It was also notable since no one else had accomplished the same feat.

[@Thranduil82]

I did fencing in Spanish destreza style years ago with rapier and rapier + dagger. It's by far my favorite sword. I don't see how a rapier wielder could lose to a katana unless there is a big gap in skill. As for a long sword my teacher used to say it's better than a rapier if fighting against armor, never thought about why honestly.

[@imperfectlump6070]

The katana is faster to deploy than a rapier.

[@FiliiMartis]

Yea (last part), and that's due to half-swording (i.e. wrestling in armour while using sharp metal sticks 😏), so not due to reach and all that.

[@ROMANTIKILLER2]

​@imperfectlump6070 true, the advantage in a duel would be to draw the katana before the long Spanish rapier is unsheathed. Otherwise, the odds largely favour the rapier (skillsof the wielders being comparable)

[@FiliiMartis]

@@ROMANTIKILLER2 Is it true, though? Which duel starts with swords in their sheets; in rapier duels, the standard is for them to be drawn; and hey, old Japanese movies show the same. Besides, halfway through drawing the rapier, you are in a defensive position. By the end, you are in 1st guard and can thrust from above. But this is kinda dumb, because I don't think you can count on being in a position to depend on drawing your sword first (why not depend on stabbing a guy from the back at that speculative point?). Daggers are also a thing if you need to depend on a quick reaction.

[@ApothecaryTerry]

This feels a bit like the Bat'leth video where Shad drank coffee and Tyranth had 0 time to prepare 😄 Rapier wins, I don't think that's controversial for non-weebs. Some more prep time for objective analysis with pre-analysed criteria would have been good though.

[@rd_gyes7484]

The forbidden topics when Shad and Tyranth are at the dinner table: medieval weapons.

[@deviancepurplehaze6045]

Both swords are very beautiful in their own right but the Rapier look very terrifying in a fight without armor.

[@adirmugrabi]

this is not a fair fight. Rapier is from the future when compared to the long sword and Katana. it's like comparing a sword to a gun

[@TheScarvig]

more like a cowboy revolver to a modern semi auto pistol.....

[@thefunky_brassmonkey]

Mentioned it before, I would love to see a functional rapier hilt on a katana. The James Bond movie youre thinking about is "Die Another Day"

[@neumi569]

It's also always important to consider, against what type of defense these swords were created. The rapier doesn't have to go against bamboo- or metal armor, it was designed to go against light padded armor, which became more and more common with the introduction of guns which heavy armore was almost usless against. I agree that in a 1:1 without any significant protection the rapier is probably gonna win by far. But put both users in the armor that the war version of katanas were used against (not the later shorter and less curved models) and you will be glad that you have some extra force into your hits. Of course rapiers generally were also made of higher quality steel than most Katanas were, with better material to work on the latter would probably have been thinner and more lightweight.

[@tylerrobbins8311]

Also your should check out the Bilbao sword it's what the Spanish conquistador and other 17th and 18th century an soldiers were using. It's a type of broad sword, I think you'll like them more than the more thrust centric rapiers.

[@nickgreene2971]

I agree with Shad that one on one the rapier has a slight edge but for general use I would pick katana for design but I don't like differential hardening for durability. I would love to see a 2 handed falchion vs katana video but I suspect it would come down to spring steel vs differential hardening

[@RainMakeR_Workshop]

There are sideswords and complex hilt longswords too for that protective element. There are also more choppy rapiers.

[@Murgoh]

The difference in practical reach between a typical katana and a typical rapier (there are of course long katanas and short rapiers, especially as the term "rapier" has been used to describe a wide range of swords from medium length cut-and-thrust sideswords to long and thin thrust only-swords with no edge whatsoever) is so great it's almost like comparing a rifle to a pistol. The guy with the katana will be shish kebap long befor he gets close enough to cut efficiently. You can't cut well with the point, you need to get close enough so that the blade hits the target at about a third of it's length from the point so even same length cutting sword will have shorter practical reach than a thrusting sword. And I don't think armor would make a difference, it could even make it worse for the katana wielder, especially if it's light armor like cloth or chain mail that is much more effective against cuts than thrusts. And yes. you can thrust with a katana (and cut with many rapiers) but it's not as fast and accurate as thrusting with a rapier. Also, thrusting with a katana puts your hands and forearms in harm's way as there's not much hand protection. Rapier vs. longsword is more even but with equally skilled users and no armor I'd still bet on the rapier because it's so much more nimble. With armor it's a different thing, a good pointy, stiff longsword is much better at piercing armor than the more flexible rapier.

[@Monopek_Cannibal]

15:55, Firearms are better 🫡

[@solenim]

The tool analogy is best compared to a hammer and nail gun. If the job is to put a nail into wood, the nail gun is more efficient but the hammer is more versatile.

[@TetrahydrocannabissaurusRex]

I would like to see y'all explore the viability of dual wielding rapiers.

[@serketenglish5963]

Put a swept hilt on an Okatana? It'd definitely be more cursed than the Scimitana, but I'd love to see it.

[@Ivanklord]

Both swords are amazing for their times, i like both. Katana cuts like a beast and the rapier is a beast at stabbing.

[@mustangmckraken1150]

Katana having any special cutting power is a myth, they are comparable to any other sword.

[@Delseius]

Katana and rapier were popular during the same period. Just on opposite sides of the world.

[@blumiu2426]

@@mustangmckraken1150 Not really, depends

[@knightingale9833]

​@@blumiu2426 No, Shad's been over this, there are much better cutting swords than the Katana

[@itamiyouji4057]

​@@knightingale9833 Shad's cutting form is absolute garbage, it's no wonder he can't cut anything.

[@Schlumpsha]

There is only one correct answer: the Stick

[@gameragodzilla]

One thing I would love for Shad and co. to test is how “iaijutsu” techniques work for swords, since drawing a handgun quickly and smoothly is a very important skill for modern defensive pistol shooting, and that is reflected in Japanese iaijutsu with the katana. Since you’re unlikely to walk around with the weapon pre-drawn, any self defense situation would require you get your weapon out of the scabbard/holster and into your hand to use. The katana’s design is optimized for that type of speed drawing (as well as drawing under different scenarios). Wonder how many techniques there would be possible with a longsword, rapier, or other Western sword designs especially since as far as I can tell, iaijutsu is fairly unique to Japanese swordsmanship.

[@alluringming]

Love see you do comparison to a dao sword/saber vs a katana. Though too bad the dao saber/sword you did review on was garbage.

[@sparrow420500]

My response to the gun comment is, you can still HIT someone with a gun. Has Shad never heard of "pistol whipping?" If you're not aware of how much damage can be done with the fuck of a rifle or shotgun?? No, a gun is not MADE for that, but to say it "only does one thing really well" is simply not true.

[@hatimmurtaza7732]

ALgorithm Bless this channel!

[@Xyponx]

9:50 I've waited years for this moment. Say it again Tyranth, loudly and proudly! lmao Shad can be QUITE pedantic sometimes

[@guldan6768]

Guys, a more historically realistic comparison would be the rapier and the spada. The Spanish, who were in love with rapiers, were very cautious in duels with the French, who preferred spadas.

[@FiliiMartis]

I think I would need to understand what you mean by rapier and spada in this context. You seem to have a clear idea behind those terms, but in fact, people use rapier to refer to a broad class of swords, and spada just means sword. So all are spadas and I suspect that what you have in mind I would call both rapiers.

[@Praxics0815]

Hhmmm the Katana was used as a side arm on the battlefield, the Rapier was not. However the Katana was also used as dueling weapon, which was the main purpose of the Rapier. And in that context armour usually does not apply. Musashi is probably the most famous Japanese dueler and he afaik wore no armour in any of his duels. During duels it seems Samurai mostly just wore Kimono or Keikogi, Haori and then a Hakama. In terms of classic material those used linen, hemp or bamboo. There is no difference to western clothing in term of protection: There simply is none. The Rapier would therefore probably dominate in a dueling environment. Funnily enough Musashi did come up with his dual sword fighting style called Hyohō Niten Ichi-ryū. In which he used a Katana for his main hand and the off-hand used a Wakizashi simultaneously. That is in concept not much different to the fighting style where a Rapier is used in the main-hand and a parrying dagger in the off-hand. However while the Rapier losses absolutely nothing at all the Katana can obviously no longer be held with both hands.

[@theZDOME]

I’m a rapier fanboy all day Tashy still makes me laugh, I love how hardcore you Aussie-fy the pronunciation

[@BWinced]

Would have been cool to do a short bout between the two weapons to show the advantages/disadvantages. Say, a Munich Town Sword or a Schiavona vs a Katana.

[@TigroGumi]

Can you try a big collection of sparing with all types of sword... of course wooden and both to the nine with armour... but to go to try to always win despite the disadvantages, chance plays a big roll in win or lose next to technical stuff

[@Halvization]

Very enjoyable vid!

[@lewispatton6550]

Why don't katana's and their counterparts have larger guards?

[@richardnovak9129]

A rapier is a great blade, I myself consider it one of if not the best sword. A rapier is long-bladed, and finesse weapon, with a fine handguard and handle, and its thin blade is great at cutting. A katana is long-bladed, and thick-handled blade, with a tiny handguard.

[@louiskindler2065]

Good Vid 🎉

[@Dinoslay]

Tyranth’s next assignment: a katana with a handle guard.

[@Siegrain1989]

"Reach advantage is always an advantage"Tyranth 2025

[@sesimie]

In a versus video you need to standardize what versus means. Is it a Duel? Is it the build and shape? In History the Spear and Shield combo is the top spot for Melee (From what other experts say). A Rapier has that spear and shield analogy built in one weapon. Katana vs Scimitar would be an excellent start to the Best Curved Sword comparison. Also Different lengths and Human sizes affect these comparisons. So I'd like to see one standard Human baseline. Shad versus Shad with each weapon versus himself. With Tyranth I get that versatility but then he can show as a maker the ease of making said weapon. All in all great video.

[@michaeljay4816]

I left the new Rogan/Wes Huff podcast to come and watch this.

[@DragonShiryu]

This makes me want a collab between Shadiversity and Seki Sensei, or at least a reaction. Get Seki in Australia to try out real weapons since they can only get toy versions in Japan.

[@wyrmfireno1]

One caveat you missed. The rapier has a better guard, but it is usually very fine and made with non-hardened materials. A decent dedicated strike on that rapier's guard with a decent katana would have destroyed it and probably severely injured the wielder not to mention unarming them completely.

[@ChaosSwissroIl]

This is probably more of a Knights Watch suggestion, but try to get into contact with the Bladesong developers. It seems like it's right up your alley; it's a sword making game.

[@TheScarvig]

correct me if i am wrong, but during the period of the rapier were "duels" already mostly done for judicial purposes "till blood is drawn"? because i think one thing with the rapier might be that while it can do terrifying stabs that if deep enough in the right area are really deadly, they can also create only shallow nicks with the tip and punctures that barely break the skin. those would be easy to treat after a duel as compared to a big slash across the chest

[@Skauri]

Is there a thing to NOT differential treat a katana? Spring steel katana? would it be worth it?

[@Angelic-Tiger]

I would love to see you guys try sabers out.

[@Ron-Tag]

I agree with Tyrinth. I'd prefer a longsword or any weapon with more versatility. If you are solely performing in 1v1 duels, a rapier is the choice, obviously. However, life throws more than duels at you, so I'd prefer something with more versatility.

[@apelincoln1616]

Tyranth's demeanor in videos with shad is completely different than on his own channel. On his channel he is lighthearted and funny. On this channel he acts like he doesn't want to be there

[@tvrkm6897]

Shad: bastard sword Captions: bard sword Me, a fan of DnD stories: still checks out

[@iantheduellist]

You need to compare it with a 17nth century hanger/cutlass. Their use as brawling/battle/self defense is applicable to both types of blades.

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

I've noticed that combat games that feature melee weapons, tend to nerf the rapier by making it significantly shorter than it should be.

[@bensilk6431]

As a battlefield side arm? The Katana. As an unarmoured Dueling weapon? The Rapier. Simple.

[@gregorylieber8362]

9:35 BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! An all-time response and moment.

[@TheArklyte]

Sabre is better at slashing, rapier at defending and can be used only for thrusts. And katana falls into sabres. It's like asking which is better - estoc or koncerz?

[@imperfectlump6070]

Military rapiers can cut.

[@ROMANTIKILLER2]

I think context is king. For instance, in a small and crammed space, even what is usually reach advance could become a hindrance. As for the cutting capacity war rapiers with cup or pappenheimer hilts existed and were impressive beasts, despise having to trade off some speeds and agility.

[@shanus11]

anytime i think what would I like to have it depends on what I'm going to be doing. 1v1 dueling = rapier, battlefield combat or a more general use = longsword and probably katana. also in a duel would the weight of a longsword blade be advantageous vs a rapier in terms of parrying and/or knocking the rapier out the way enough to make the killing blow? yes the rapier might have better reach and accuracy but it would be 2 hand vs 1 hand, lighter blade vs heftier blade, if the longsworder just swung hard at the rapier blade 2 handed would it just allow them to overpower/ knock the rapier blade away?

[@johnstuartkeller5244]

I have a personal preference for English backsword, usually coupled with buckler. I have had an easier time bouting against katana than rapier with these tools, but I am also reminded of George Silver's query in his Clarifications Upon My Instructions Upon My Paradoxes of Defense: "Yes, of course, but ... what about DRAGONS?"

[@PeregrinTintenfish]

You should read the Paradox of Defense. It argues that too long a weapon is a disadvantage.

[@Franktamas]

I would like to see a comparison in a one-handed controlled trust and cutting with both. Yes, Tyranth can use a long sword one handed but can he trust and cut with it accurately?

[@beowulf.reborn]

What are the specs on that Rapier? I ask because the blade seems kind of short. Perhaps I'm just used to looking at longer swords, but when I think Rapier, I thin a blade in excess of 3'6" or even 4'0"+ in some instances.

[@tremblingcolors]

You guys should react to the channel, Let's ask Seki Sensei, it's a Japanese Budo master testing out western melee weapons and seeing how he would use them from his own background. Pretty interesting, he did a rapier and buckler video recently. He was especially a fan of the Halberd.

[@Mr-__-Sy]

The rapier is a sword that became an expert at cosplaying as a spear Change my mind

[@josecoronadonieto6911]

There's an expert sword reviewer in Spain called "Vicente Toledo Monparler" that made a review "Catana japonesa vs ropera española"

[@TheBenji800]

I get the feeling that if they went up against each other it would be MAD mutual assured destruction. The rapier would get the first strike but the guy with the katana would have a hole in him but could happily hack away for a few seconds before he bled to death.

[@longrider42]

It depends on the cut. Say you cut a major artery. That person is dead in 3 to 4 minutes. Or he will retreat to stop the bleeding. And a cut is easier to do. I was taught the basics of knife fighting back in the 80's. My teacher a Marine, told me that reach is every thing. And trying to go in for a thrust/stab, will put you in reach of your enemy. So a slashing/hacking attack, can be quicker. Plus, when you do enough cuts to your enemy, and they start to bleed. That can end the fight right there. So I do like the idea of the Rapier, because of how light and fast it is. Plus being one handed, as others have said, you can use an off hand weapon, or a buckler.

[@Balorian]

I agree with Tyranth, the longsword wins due to its greater utility and how it can be used. Armour would completely change a fight as well as mentioned.