Would CASTLES be useful against Magic and Dragons? FANTASY RE-ARMED

[@DrCruel]

Of course castles are useful against enemy wizards and dragons. If you're a powerful archmage, you can throw castles at them.

[@briang3598]

How does this comment not have more likes after so much time?

[@ziemekzz]

I recon most people do not scroll down so far.

[@cgamejewels]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@draco5991rep]

But if the attackers also have an archmage he could summon meteors to block the castles.

[@bluffkirschman599]

Ut what about dragons

[@JohnDoe-on6ru]

"Line of sight teleportation" I imagined a guy launching himself into the air with a catapult, looking into the castle and then teleporting everyone inside :D

[@England91]

Thing with that the guy flying is that he still needs to counteract the force being applied to him for the portal so it's stable on the other side

[@golling3334]

just launch straight up and right when he starts to fall instead of flying up teleport, nice and light landing

[@entropyzero5588]

Eh, most fantasy realms that have teleportation also have flight. No launching required ;)

[@ashtonfox2264]

Reminds me of my mutants and masterminds character cannonball. Density control with teleportation portals. He would pick up speed while increasing his density. He did this by teleporting in the air over and over letting himself drop until he launched himself through the out portal at something. Hince the name Cannonball.

[@aperson1938]

John Doe Perfect idea

[@VechsDavion]

What about stone-shaping magic that radically reduces the cost and construction time of a castle? :)

[@IntrepidComic]

Sounds like any magic that could make building a castle cheaper would make destroying the castle even easier than that

[@filipthunell8631]

it would also make it easier to demolish castles too

[@Maker0824]

or magic fortified stone (as discussed)

[@filipthunell8631]

@@Maker0824 that could work

[@ssik9460]

Earth bending

[@witalian1]

Having nuke tier weapons does not necessarily make fortifications useless because regular weapons still exist and fortifications still work against regular forces. It's like the argument that walls don't work because ladders exist. The wall still works. That's why you need the ladder.

[@loremasterdasmodeus8285]

GREAT POINT.

[@dohickey7184]

That analogy is almost sage like

[@draco5991rep]

@@dohickey7184 AHA, But what about DRAGONS?

[@vCLOWNSHOESv]

Walls beat ladders most of the time. Sure you can climb a ladder to the top of the wall but you'll most likely be killed when your head pops over.

[@vCLOWNSHOESv]

@@draco5991rep We all saw Game Of Thrones and we all know plot armor is the only reason none of those scorpions killed Dany and Drogon when they attacked King's Landing.

[@carbon1255]

Simple strategy to castle design to dragon proof. Make it a castle IN THE SKY. And make it higher than dragons can go. International Space Castle. Also high enough and there will be little oxygen for dragon fire to work with.

[@briang3598]

And thinner air with which to produce lift from the flapping of wings, impeding the ability to fly. Another tactical point- make the other army/kingdom/warlord pay for it!!!

[@luxignis9277]

But also less air for your troops to breath, and depending on the altitude high wind speeds that could rip your troops right off the ground to god knows where.

[@sqoob7082]

Dalaran

[@sonni.walkman]

*the knight standing on ISS*

[@pelinalwhitestrake3367]

Oh, you mean Battlespire?

[@maksuree]

how skyrim was made: "hey remember oblivion?" "AHAH, BUT WHAT ABOUT DRAGONS?"

[@MrJinglejanglejingle]

Best. Comment. Ever.

[@NocturnalNightingale]

Gary But skyrim's dragons are wyverns not actual dragons.

[@Mtonazzi]

The ethimology of "wyvern" being a 2 legged "dragon like" beast was coined around the 1800s, the same period where maille armour had the "chain-" attached to it, when vikings started to be depicted with horned helmets and when berserkers where designated as rambling drug-tranced bloodthirsty warriors. In fact, the medieval english word wyver, that in time comes from ancient french wyvre. That meant aspid or snake. So basically, if Skyrim tells me that's a dragon, then in Tamriel that's a dragon. And if Tolkien tells me that basically a big wingless iguana was a dragon (Glaurung), then in Middle Earth that's a Dragon. But if in D&D they tell me a 2 legged dragon it's instead a wyvern, then it's a wyvern. The thing is, with these things there are no absolutes.

[@aurourus6894]

Usually the most "official" meaning of dragon, drake and wyverns are as following. Dragon: 4 legs 2 wings is intelligent can speak and breathes fire ( or any other element) Wyvern: 2 legs 2 wings is not intelligent can not speak and can not breath fire. Drakes are usually really weird since i can not find anything "official" on them saying if they are intelligent or not or if they can breath fire or not but one thing is sure they have 4 legs and no wings. Correct me if i'm wrong and i don't want any bullshit like "Oh in real world drake is a word that describes a male duck." because that's just retarded, were talking about dragons not ducks.

[@NocturnalNightingale]

Aurourus So... they got it wrong on all acounts?

[@toasega]

"Would CASTLES be useful against magic and dragons?" Me: Well, I'm sure it's better than having no castle at all.

[@royal22erick]

agreed , and in every fantasy story i can think of the point of the castle don't change its not like it was built to defend against magic and dragon its made to defens against army's . if army have mage then you have them too , the only setting i can see where castle would be useless or at least need a major revamp would be if everybody was a mage and even then if a equal army's face off i would put my money on the side with fortification even if magic make it easier to get around them . after all sometime all you need is the high ground to win a battle :)

[@helenanilsson5666]

Not to mention that a castle with nice solid rocks is good for morale in the populace, and it can house a nice large chunk of people in one place without anyone having to bring tents. Add a respectable food storage and you have as good a medieval bunker as you're going to get.

[@hmthisisit]

Valid points but, depending on the setting, you might want to put your creativity, wealth and technology in better use, if castles are rendered useless in half of the battles you fight. Instead of wasting your time trying to build a castle to defend against a bunch of teleporters, for example, use that time to device ways that can be effective against that.

[@qwertylink9066]

shouldnt rune reinforce your castle's durability?

[@KanonHara]

@@royal22erick in real life we don't use castels any more. Why ? because they are easily destroyed by artillery. Similarly, if a wizard could just blow up your castle with a spell, there would be no point in building it.

[@MasterTheik]

I'm going to have to disagree with the Game of Thrones assessment. Even if Dragons can burn down your castle walls, it'd still be useful to have a castle. Even if every enemy you are going to face has at least one dragon, you still have use for a castle. If you can stop that one dragon, your castle works fine. It'll stop forces without dragons from attacking you. It's kind of like if you're going to be fighting 100 opponents and 99 of them have a sword and 1 has a lightsaber that cuts through armor. Would you decide not to wear armor, simply because 1 of them has a counter to it? It'd still be useful against those 99 other people.

[@1ProAssassin]

It's more like trying to fight a more mobile armored attack helicopter using walls. Or if u want something closer to ur example; a dude sitting in an armoured jeep with a medium ranged assault rifle (Explanation: Highly mobile dragon with medium range flame through stone corridors to focus the flames.) aimed at soldiers in medieval armor. Also dude has a rocket launcher (equivalent of picking up heavy boulders and dropping them onto walls.).

[@Bahamuttone]

Well... In ASOIAF the Targaryen conquered EVERYTHING just with the three dragons. The castle were fundamentally USELESS against dragons [ASOIAF Dragons are up there as power, practically invulnerable and able to melt stone] And then they kept and rebuilt the castles as they were the ONLY ones with dragons and so the castles were pretty useful to keep the normal attack at bay. [And if any vassal would get uppity they would take out the dragon to remind WHY they were on the top of the food chain...]

[@Spiceodog]

when people who've read " Arcane: Burdens edge" hear that people in castles have problems when a dragon with a 12 barn wingspan shows up * laughs in solian*

[@vCLOWNSHOESv]

In GOT plot armor saved Dany and Drogon. Those scorpions would have killed them otherwise.

[@Bahamuttone]

ES458 Uh not really just in the serie we have Drogon melting a large steel structure like wax under a blow torch almost vaporizing it, as described in the book the ancient dragons could do that to huge stone structures, so no reasonable built structure would withstand that no matter the heat treatment

[@Lantalia]

Castles are still useful in separating the Dragon/Wizard from mundane support They force the commitment of special assets.

[@MonguinAssassin]

Typically in fantasy, castles are also palaces and/or cathedrals. Theoretically, the most powerful magic is best done ceremonially and with formal clothing. Hogwarts, according to the books, is a really good example of magical fortifications and enchantments. For example: apparition is impossible within Hogwarts grounds, and people had to lift this anti-enchantment temporarily in the Great Hall just to teach apparition. As far as dragons are concerned, I kept comparing them to military aircraft, especially "wing fortresses," and came up with medieval or fantastic equivalent to anti-air guns and missiles. In Avatar: The Last Airbender, the Fire Nation typically had anti-air weapons to tie up Appa, the Sky Bison. Disney's adaptation of Prince Caspian also had something of anti-air artillery weapons that would have been possible to build with Medieval technology.

[@draco5991rep]

"Do you think I look fat in that dress?" "hmmm .... What about Dragons?"

[@aaronimp4966]

Yes. Dragons look fat in her dress. They don't fit.

[@gso619]

Afraid wizards will fuck up your lovely masonry? Too broke to afford those fancy magic runes or fireball insurance? Well, have no fear, DAVE IS HERE! "Who is Dave?" you might ask? A perfectly normal run of the mill soldier, who we gave a crossbow and told to shoot anyone who vaguely looks like a wizard. And boy does he. He doesn't slice, dice or make julienne fries, but by god can he shoot a wizard in the face. Earthshaker trying to crumble your walls? Dave's on the job. Bright mage trying to set your city ablaze? Not when he's bleeding out, he can't. Cultist trying to summon his master? Watch in glee as he messes up the incantation due to the bolt in his throat and gets sucked into a dimension made of pain and lemon juice. With Dave you'll never have to worry about any fireblasts, magic missiles or demonic incursions again. Call the number on your scrying orb within the next 23 minutes and we'll throw in our dragon defense model for the low low price of 500 gold. And what might defend against these mighty beasts of lore? MORE DAVES! That's right, you can sleep easy at night knowing that any wyrm, dragon, wyvern, gentle-hearted rapper or basilisk will be shot in the dick 17 times by our expert team of Daves the moment it comes within dick-shooting distance of your castle. ORDER NOW!

[@shadiversity]

(After castle is destroyed and all my Daves dead) "What happened?!?!?! how could those wizards get past my Daves!" *goes to discover fine print in Dave contract and reads: All promises regarding Dave's efficacy become null and void against invisibility. This warning absolves the Dave suppliers of all liability for loss of life and/or loss of castle.

[@gso619]

One of the many problems in life solvable by EVEN MORE DAVES! Who needs to see what they're firing at when you've got 50 of the fuckers? Just blanket everything in sharp, pointy death until you hear something scream.

[@MrMunch-xw9fn]

Random Dave's have +2 to raccoons.

[@BigGayIncorporated]

Random oh my god lmao this is the most hilarious thing I've read in awhile!

[@GrievousKhan]

Shadiversity I laughed harder than I should have.

[@dillonrichard2541]

you are correct, it totally depends of the specific lore as to how effective castles are against magic and dragons, however I think that castles would still be of use seeing as how in most scenarios armies of solders are still the norm, magic and monsters are not always the attackers, and when they are they are often augmented by solders, and though you would need a secondary defence against them, the castle can still serve its original purpose. also there is the morale boost that defenders gain and enemy's loose, a large stone wall is daunting even if you can summon a fire tornado.

[@MonguinAssassin]

Dragons can be expensive too! Like really expensive! Think how long it often takes for a dragon to mature from birth. Dragonheart and Hobbit feature one dragon each that is the last of its own kind. Typically, from how I understood fantasy stories, dragons were only common in background stories or in ancient or former times. If I were to contrast Toothless from Smaug or Draco, the former is accompanied by youthful wyrmlings while the latter two were the last of their kind, great wyrms by D&D standards. Great Wyrms are like the dragon equivalent of senior citizens, or more precisely, typical white-bearded wizards. Now, when I think of a time period when dragons would be common, my thoughts would apply to Tribal, Archaic, and Classical periods.

[@vroomkaboom108]

and thus a meme is born You've seen Lloyd's "because [people] had BRENs" You've seen Skall's pommel throws And now... shad's "AHA, but what about dragons?"

[@discododo0468]

You forgot about machiculations

[@Casedilla73]

Is this where the famous, “But what about dragons?!” argument originated?

[@michaelt.5672]

I wouldn't say it's where it originated. It's where it was formalised.

[@cyrilgigee4630]

Hm, good to see another one of us watching Shad, albeit an Annus.

[@Casedilla73]

@@cyrilgigee4630 How would you know I’m an Annus?

[@cyrilgigee4630]

@@Casedilla73 Simple. I know I'm an Unus, so I look at my icon, see that yours has an opposing spiral, and infer that you're an Annus. Am I wrong?

[@Casedilla73]

@@cyrilgigee4630 Not necessarily, but I’m more of an Aunnus. I’m a bit of an Unus and a bit of an Annus. But I guess a double spiral would have been more fitting.

[@casm1313]

It's actually very easy to defend yourself against a Dragon. Just build an underground keep, and make sure to camouflage the entrance to look like a rock or something else to ward off suspicion.

[@dumptruck5138]

Basically Dwarves?

[@arbiterprime2145]

this is actually my justification for a fortress built into a mountain side, defense against dragons. it forces the dragon to come at you from one direction and you set up a gajilion ballista to shoot it out of the sky.

[@migBdk]

Sound like modern day insurgents fighting enemy forces who have air superiority

[@darthvader6533]

@@dumptruck5138 yeah! _wait_

[@nadiyaparmar9162]

Dragons have the sense of smell. Unless it is behind a waterfall or something, you will be destroyed.

[@josephattwell1006]

6:10 On the other hand, bigger creatures means you have creatures with much greater lifting strength, so if you put them to work actually building the castle you could make the walls out of much larger and heavier stones, thus have thicker and larger walls than what a human could build without the aid of heavy machinery.

[@millitron3666]

Imagine how big you could make a ballista that would be used by a troll. I imagine sniping enemy siege weapons from a mile away. Ye Olde Anti-material Rifles.

[@hanss3147]

Joseph Attwell Actually due to the square cube law, larger creatures would be weaker.

[@farmerboy916]

This is the sort of logical development that I love to see in fantasy settings, and can make it bigger/ more epic/ cooler. Taking both of those examples, you can now plausibly have bigger/ more epic settings, along with a more advanced form of combat. How would you counteract such devices? Perhaps da-vinci-esque tanks, or similar inventions. And so on

[@urbanhawk1]

Well I'll keep the square cube law in mind the next time I try to do tug of war with an elephant or gorilla.

[@farmerboy916]

Hans S Considering how every fantasy universe has larger creatures not be weaker, often explained by some sort of internalized magic, it's still valid. Anyway, an ant is very strong compared to its mass/ size, but an elephant is much stronger.

[@rzq100]

"Dragons happened" -Tywin Lannister(Game of Thrones)

[@Spacefrisian]

Never seen a Dragon in game of Thrones, i did see Wyvern posers though.

[@kriseriksen7706]

Game of Thrones has its own lore, dragons can look like whatever and still be dragons.

[@deathscythehellfunk]

People still debating some sort of official nomenclature for fantasy creatures? For most people: flying + breathing fire = dragon.

[@rzq100]

I mean if we wanna get technical a dragon is just a big lizard regardless of whether it flies or breaths fire.

[@None38389]

The writer can say ogres are called dragons in the world he created, and there will be nothing you can do about it.

[@Razuel]

Doctor: "Sir... you will never walk again..." Me: "AHA! BUT WHAT ABOUT DRAGONS!!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!!!!?11/1/1??!?!!1/1/1!!??!" *Suddenly, a dragon smashes through the wall* Me: "DRAGONS!!!!"

[@manekou3303]

That's the plot of how,to train your dragon.

[@Heroesflorian]

"Sir... you will never walk again..." - "But I can still ride a dragon, right?"

[@adib3011]

No one ever asks how are the dragons

[@mozxz]

AHA SEE!!!! HUMANS!!!!!

[@SheoGotSomeCheese]

1 and 1, 11, an unelegant number isn't it. Would you notice if they switched sides ?

[@robertekew]

"This is Star Wars!" "Ah, but what about dragons?!" "We're not on Tatooine, Shad. It'll be okay."

[@lorekeeper685]

Star wars have dragons

[@mvalthegamer2450]

Is this a kotor reference?

[@ln7929]

Mandalorians actually hunted dragons

[@parkermaisterra8532]

How the hell did I just now find this channel!? This is awesome

[@animegandalf8690]

"This is my mothers funeral!" "AHA BUT WHAT ABOUT DRAGONS?!"

[@josephattwell1006]

8:06 To explain about dragons in Game of Thrones/Song of Ice and Fire, the history we are told about the universe (which many of the characters in universe heavily doubt the exact accuracy of their own history, but that is another discussion all together), dragons were tamed by a group of white haired sheep herders called Valerians in Essos (I.E. the landmass split from Westeros by the sea, where the Free Cities and the Dothraki are located). The Valerians used their tamed dragons to make a massive Empire, as no army/castle in the world could actually stand up against the massive advantage having dragons at your beck and call provided. After a few centuries of growing rich and decadent, something happened to the homeland of Valeria called "The Doom," which destroyed Valeria and it's dragons... except for one small Valerian family, the Targaryens, who were spared because they ruled over a tiny island far away from the rest of Valeria. They took their few dragons and conquered Westeros, which was basically seven perpetually warring Kingdoms up to that point. Even though they only had three fully grown dragons, the armies of Westeros could not stand up to the dragons. The Targaryens then set themselves as the King of Kings, ruling over all the Seven Kingdoms. A few centuries pass, and there is a massive Targaryen civil war called the Dance of the Dragons when different branches of the Targaryen family disagreed over who is the rightful heir to the iron throne. Most of the Targaryen's dragons died during the war. Over the following years, each generation of dragon was weaker and smaller either due to deliberate sabotage, excessive inbreeding, or both. So, for about a century the Targaryen's ruled over Westeros without dragons, all the wild dragons had been killed long ago, and all the remained were skeletons and the seemingly lifeless stone dragon eggs that no one was actually able to hatch. Daenerys however almost entirely by accident discovered the specific blood magic required to hatch the three dragon eggs she had been gifted, and she was able to control them with her "dragon controlling/immunity to fire" genetics.

[@Bombur888]

Good, my friend :) . However, Targaryens don't have any fireproof gene (at least in the books) ; Dany in Drogo's pyre was an exceptional magical one time-event. She even gets some burnings later, while she's in Mereen arena.

[@VCBird6]

And don't forget when she torched the Dothraki chieftains and she walked out unscathed by the flames.

[@VCBird6]

***** oh I didn't know ^^;

[@TheSnakeh]

That is plenty of information I didn't know about, so thanks for that. However, I don't think think there is immunity to fire in Targaryens (remember Viserys?). And there is no dragon controlling gene, at least not in the books. Martin makes a point of it in A Dance with Dragons with Quentyn Martell's storyline. He had Targaryen blood and that proved to not be enough to tame a dragon. Dany had to whip Drogon in order to get close to him and ride him, unlike in the show.

[@TheKoenr]

Don't forget the Maesters poisoning the dragons/eliminating magic

[@autolykos9822]

So dragons are basically close air support. Feels about right. If you want to upgrade a castle so it can defend against that, you've pretty much reinvented the bunker. Again, in a world with magic and dragons, a D&D-style dungeon (or underground city, like Moria) makes a lot more sense than a castle.

[@kaitenjigoku]

Autolykos Dwarfs know what's up when it comes to protecting themselves and defence

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

wrong, the only thing that would change with castle design is the adition of anti-fly towers with some kind of ant-dragon balistae or something, think ww1 and ww2 defences, they are essentially castles with places to hide from explosions. in fact a bunker is the worst thing vs flame throwers and thus dragons, open top is better vs flame weapons and thus vs dragons. the best defense vs a dragon is a dragon killing balistae.

[@vespanola]

Dude, your videos are so interesting.. honestly, it's like those nerdy talks that i always wanted :)

[@racheldurden1344]

Now wait a minute- you can only encumber a flying critter so much before it becomes unable to fly. You're talking about having a dragon just carry boulders? Do you have any idea what the flight speed velocity of an unladen dragon versus a laden dragon?

[@briang3598]

African or European?

[@valiroime]

Came here for this, was not disappointed.

[@draco5991rep]

@@briang3598 Don't forget the Asian Dragons, like the Lung.

[@zachnerdydude6605]

Bin "the dragon" Laden

[@rachdarastrix5251]

I assume you are imagining it that it is mandatory the dragon can only lift and carry boulders 5 times his/her size.

[@keegobricks9734]

Most teleportation spells, at least that are used on armies, are usually a summoning spell. So in other words, it's people already there, opening a portal or a gateway to let the armies in. I shouldn't need to give examples since it's such a common trope at this point, but that's where the defender would set up things like 'wards" that would counteract magical effects. So really a castle would stay the same you'd simply also be adding magical counteracting spells or talismans to protect from that sort of damage.

[@sambucktooth]

Keego Bricks there's also the point that teleportation spells are costly or high level spells, or even highly specialized and difficult, and most often all the above in a well thought out scenario. IMO the most used spells on armies, are defensive(shields against arrows and spells) and offensive.

[@painlord2k]

Usually teleportation spells are limited to individuals plus some weight he can move. This usually end in no more than a handful of people being transported. In D&D you need to visualize the destination (already seen or be able to see or implied to be there) to teleport. And it is a 7 level spell (so, at best 1/100 wizards can get to the level they can use it, must be able to cast it and learn or research it). Protecting a castle against the possible attack of 1:500 individual highly skilled and trained to a specific type of magic would be a bit of a waste. By that time the same individual can lay hell, waste and death over the castle and get in easily just by becoming invisible and flying inside.

[@andresmarrero8666]

Teleportation requires a whole lot of energy and because of that, not many people would be using it. I would be more weary of Earth spells and such.

[@Brohemian_Fapsody]

I’m currently writing a trilogy of novels that are set in a fantasy world called Margomel. I’ve scientifically explained the existence of magic to the point where one might not consider it to be magic at all, and one of my favorite obstacles I had to work around was the issue of teleportation in regards to sieges. The magical wards a mage of Margomel can create function as high concentrations of “arcane energy” and as such they lose power over time due to entropy. The Court Mages in service to Exeret Gilael, the ruler of Uristal (one of the most militarily and politically powerful nations in Margomel) advised the architects of Darshal (the capital city of Uristal) and its keep to line the interior walls of the keep with Enmas Moliri (translates to “white steel”), a material that neutralizes the “spellfield” created through any use of magic, thus rendering any magical assault on the keep useless.

[@kovi567]

You forgot to mention the other, more easier way of defending a castle against magic and dragons: With your own magic and dragons. Have like a mage for every 100 meters of wall length + towers, and some dragons to counter other dragons, and to increase of your counter-offensive capabilities. Of course, if the dragon can breathe fire, or other harmful substances, then why not use it on the fields and farms, to make the enemy have less food, or ruin it's economy?

[@HistoricaHungarica]

Better yet: wizards on dragons as a defensive mechanism. While swooping the attacking enemy from above: firebreathing to the left, fireballing to the right.

[@kovi567]

HistoricaHungarica Well, if you can ride a dragon without it trying to eat you, then yes that is a viable option. Btw, Magyarok mindenütt!

[@cOmAtOrAn]

But at that point there's no reason to have a castle. You just engage the enemy before they can reach your base. Rather like in modern warfare, actually.

[@kovi567]

cOmAtOrAn Yes...because when the enemy has a dragon, and you have too, then both parties will just watch as their dragons kill each other, and the besiegers will not try to attack the vitually undefended base with a bunch of infantry. No. You need castles even if dragons are present. Modern warfare only works, because the modern equipment. With medieval equipment, you just can't use modern warfare, you have to build heavily fortified positions that can withstand a besieging force (like, have walls and stuff), and you have to minimize both the casaulties, and the supplies during a siege, because before trucks came up, logistics were shit.

[@cOmAtOrAn]

I suppose it depends on how many dragons and wizards are wandering about. If they're rare enough, the normal rules of medieval still mostly apply. But if there's a lot of them, it's gonna be a lot more modern.

[@Ikelae]

I have a 3.5 D&D rule book all about building a stronghold/castle within the setting. The amount of spells, runes, and wards; that you can potentially put into structures in 3.5 is ridiculous. I mean hell, a castle could even be sentient with automated defenses. So yeah, at least in D&D castles are still viable.

[@General12th]

I'm imagining a sentient, mobile castle, enchanted to the brim with magical defenses and offenses, shambling across continents and destroying empires. They're like stone tarrasques!

[@republicstarwing414]

@@General12th So, Mortal Engines

[@godo2712]

@@General12th im sure that's faaaaar from generic everyday castle everyone has

[@Hugin-N-Munin]

"We're not attacking ogres.We're trying to attack a castle!" OK, but how would that +9 dagger go against a gazebo?

[@snuckytoes8427]

ITS A GAZEBO

[@Great_Olaf5]

But what about dragons?

[@greeneggsinpam]

My favourite magical system was the one in Eragon. The idea that your magic is limited by your physical strength was really cool, and I think the series played with it well.

[@General12th]

I loved that system too, although the fact that dwarves and elves and urgals and dragons *all* had superhuman constitutions rendered that point kinda sorta moot. Everyone has limits (unless you pool energy) but some folks' limits are way, _way_ beyond what humans can do.

[@th3officebeefalos456]

Eragon actually copied it's magic system from The Belgariad by David Eddings, the only differences are that you don't need a special language to use it and that the number of people that can use it with out assistance from a god or demon can be counted on one hand. Demons and gods are also very hard to get in contact with, much less make a pact, so the amount of magic that is in the world is severely limited.

[@vonfaustien3957]

@@taddad2641 what broke shit for me is they added a spell for making nuclear explosions. Why the fuck didnt the villain use a magic bunding oath on a minion and have them blow up the rebels by making there mass into a magic antimatter explosion instead of wasting a shit ton of armies?

[@nickolasdiamond5619]

@@vonfaustien3957 I know. It almost like Galbotorix kept that in reserve to just to have a cool ending.

[@balintkristof8442]

Dragon fire can't melt steel beams. 7/11 was a part time job

[@darken2417]

They do in fantasy settings however for it to happen in a world with a fair amount of physics it is simply ridiculous. Think about how hot a smithing furnace gets and yet the iron being reshaped is not melted. The dragon needs to literally be breathing lava not fire.

[@balintkristof8442]

Darken De la Espada I guess you didn't get the joke

[@darken2417]

Yep probably went right over my head. ;p

[@darkwave8892]

Once again very thought provoking :) and a great help to me when building my fantasy world thanks again!!

[@shadiversity]

My pleasure sir!

[@Jacob-yg7lz]

I'm planning on making a fantasy universe which starts with very traditional, high to late medieval style combat, but people end up discovering a magical element which completely ruins their way of warfare, causing a military and technological clusterfuck akin to WW1. My current idea is basically a gunpowder which shoots lightning.

[@Dantick09]

Jacob Furrow then you can wait for a rainy day and zap everyone?

[@Jacob-yg7lz]

Dantick09 Basically.

[@ChrissieBear]

Why not just have them discover gunpowder, then? Gunpowder would be pretty magical to anyone who's never encountered it before.

[@Nerobyrne]

it's really easy: Electricity. If your civ somehow discovers electricity without gunpowder, they would first develop shock weapons and eventually find out that you can use electromagnets instead of tension or inertia to throw things at the enemy. So basically it would be what is known in video games as "Gauss-Cannon", except not in a sci-fi universe. Pretty cool actually.

[@Spacefrisian]

Like Warmachine/Hordes universe but minus the big giant Warmachines?

[@HuyGia-wp5tx]

"Everything here are made of stones, even the bed" Igmund, Jarl of Markarth

[@zebfirehd9102]

introduces a frost dragon or legendary frost breathing dragon.

[@jinenjuce]

During a meeting at work: "We have to deal with the rain water runoff that will hit the surfaces of the roofs and patio--" "BUT WHAT ABOUT DRAGONS?" "Zorg, you're fired."

[@robear9577]

#WHATABOUTDRAGONS

[@cobraglatiator]

"this is my daughter dance recital." "what about dragons?!"

[@RoseDragoness]

#whataboutdragons

[@legozach77584]

This is a hashtag I intend to use in my daily life

[@supremeleadersmeagol6345]

#WhatAboutTheDroidAttackOnTheWookiees?

[@boneshaman8912]

#DLM Dragons Lives Matter

[@davos6129]

*Watching Shad talking about castles while designing a keep for d&d* Thanks Shad

[@selenagamya1612]

One problem I've always had with fire magic is that it often just says "screw you" to physics. Flames are essentially a gas, yet many fantasy settings treat spells like fireballs like they can carry some kind of impact force. In my mind, fire spells should only immolate, not impact. Of course, there is the possibility that a fireball could just be a burning pressure wave, but I have yet to see anyone really suggest that.

[@AeronPrince]

Selena Gamya thanks for the suggestion XD

[@Zentennen]

That's how I've imagined explosive fireballs.

[@natalyst]

I always imagined it as a ball of flaming magma that bursts into fire when it hits something

[@themoagoddess1820]

I was thinking about it, and your burning pressure wave is the best solution to the problem of fire spells with impact(maybe even make it so with fireballs the ball shape is just the magic keeping it precise rather than letting it fan out) and until I read the part where you suggested it, I was considering how to word it and present it to you.

[@KeyWiteWolf]

This is something that always bothered me to, and something I look to change in the stories I am working on. For one thing, I take the physics behind the magic in my worlds very seriously. Even if the presence of magic in a world alters some aspect of physics, once you establish that you have to respect it, and be consistent. Also, most of the time normal laws of physics would still stand. If you wanted fire to have an impact, for example, there's more then one way to do it, but you better give the audience/reader a dang good explanation. For example, you can have something within the fire, such as actual stone or magma, which would allow penetrating force for things like walls. You could also make use of certain gases in the atmosphere and possibly condense then ignite them, causing a much more powerful explosion (especially if it was done right beside the target instead of flying towards it). There's a lot more options but I don't wanna bore people. Either way, any of the issues with magic and physics can be solved if someone bothers to actually explain how things like that work in their world and keep to it. It might make some of the stories a little longer but at least you'll understand how it all works and the world will feel more plausible.

[@andrewvishnefske1222]

I laughed at the title a bit because it's like saying "Would Castles Be Good Aginst Physics?" seeing as how broad a topic magic is. but I like this video so good for you that you found something you like to do :)

[@BrandonSchleifer]

According to Game of Thrones lore, castles were pretty useless against dragons. Most of the castles in that universe were in Westeros, and the first person to bring dragons to Westeros conquered 6 of the 7 kingdoms extremely quickly. The final kingdom, Dorne, maintained independence due to reliance on strategy and poisons, not castles.

[@Kalahridudex]

@@es4583 GOT dragonfire melts clean through steel. Aegon I melted the largest castle in Westoros like its nothing.

[@MikaelKKarlsson]

A castle could house all your friends. An friendship, is magic.

[@sandroguzelj1234]

but but....what about dragons?

[@Erika-gn1tv]

They can be friends too!

[@elgostine]

dragons are assholes in equestria though except spike and the dragon princess.

[@AngelaMerici12]

MikaelKKarlsson Beautiful words just right there!

[@dreammirrorbrony1240]

MikaelKKarlsson I concur!

[@Southerly93]

I think a "flying flamethrower" type dragon would be devistating to the defenders because it could fill defenses full of flames is arrow slits and murder holes (or any gap at all used by the defenders)

[@Dantick09]

Very good! The castle would need giant archers with great bows to shoot down the pesky dragons

[@Dantick09]

Lord Inquisitor Arches just have to git gud

[@ErichZornerzfun]

That was my thought as well but the problem then is the amount of man power required when historically castles would sometimes be defended by less than 20 people.

[@carlost856]

Dantick09 you could get a sweet thing going if you use wizards to defend against dragons and domesticated dragons to hunt enemy wizards.

[@sandroguzelj1234]

hawkeye Gough anyone?

[@TarsonTalon]

Okay, this is the scenario: Normal castle and none-magic technology vs. one 'realistic' dragon, no army. The dragon comes as a surprise to the local populace, and they take refuge in the castle, far away from initial contact. I will set up my defenses as follows: 1. Tear down all wooden pieces. The dragon does not need to be given fuel with which to smoke us out. Replace important floors with with a supported metal grates, covered in soaking wet wool. 2. Strategically place large barrels of water to fight fires, specifically in places where, if they were to be destroyed, the water would run over the largest surface area. 3. Redirect the moat to flow inside of the castle, filling the walls like a bath tub, making the grounds knee-deep in water. This will allow defenders to drop below the water to avoid the fire and put themselves out. 4. Set up bonfire areas with the wood gathered from the castle and nearby forest. Create a ton of large Chinese floating lanterns, hooked up with ropes full of hooks. They should not be released into the air yet. Okay, here's the plan: When the dragon comes, the bonfires should be lit, allowing for a smokescreen to envelope the castle (fighting fire with fire, lol). After the dragon makes a few passes through the smoke, the Chinese floating lanterns should be released, held to the ground by ropes strung with fishing hooks. When the dragon passes over the castle again, it will get caught in the ropes and hooks hanging from the floating lanterns, unable to see them through the smokescreen. The dragon will fall to the ground, injuring itself greatly, and then the defenders can pile on top of it with spears and shields, stabbing it to death. Afterwards, the people will feast!

[@victorayorke7123]

A good dragon defence for a castle, would have to be some form of medieval-period anti-air defence, and pretty quickly the historical defences against aircraft attack start to appear... While ballistae, giant greatbow emplacements, etc could be installed and manned by the castle garrison, they might not be too accurate (excepting fantastical accuracy boosters such as, idk, elven artillerymen) and would be a deterrent weapon for the most part - a dragon could probably attack the castle without getting speared, but said dragon may not want to take those chances. A better solution would be to develop an active response to incoming dragons, and this means employing some large winged beasties of your own. Precisely what these are will depend on the setting's fauna, but we'll have two rough directions to take. Non-sapient creatures will need to be tamed, trained and maybe even directed in flight, while sapient creatures could be kept on the garrison payroll to dogfight incoming dragons. Maybe even dragons themselves, acting as prestigious and valued soldiers who protect their lord's skies in return for shelter, pay, and other amenities... This leads rather quickly to a medieval air warfare scenario. Castles would have a major purpose as draconic air force bases - not only strategically locking nearby land and serving as the lord's residence, but also providing the space and resources needed to house a (semi-?) professional dragon or two. Arming and equipping the dragon for interception and bombing would be an important job, and out of combat a talented and professional dragon might gain the acclaim of a highly respected royal knight...

[@dirtygears6607]

Every one I know is not like me as in loving fantasy and medieval history,Arthurian legend ext and when I watch you I feel as if you take the words right out my mouth so thank you and keep up the great work!

[@thomasr.jackson2940]

In much fantasy literature Magic is neither insufficient to overcome castles in themselves, or is not the only threat to worry about. In LoTR, Sauron still needed to raise an army. Even though he used fantastic creatures, they still operated with rather conventional physics for the most part (except for the flying part, where folks almost always mess up) and have their own vulnerabilities. In GoT, Harrenhal demonstrates how useless castles are against dragons, and indeed the castles there seem to be mostly legacy structures. But Targaryen's weren't the only threat around, and when they Targaryens were not directly involved, or they didn't have their dragons, castles were pretty useful. Except for the fire stuff, a lot of the dragon issue is munch the same as any air assault question. Air superiority is pretty useful, and it almost always seems to be the case that only one side has dragons or other flying creature of war, and that can be decisive in a battle against a fixed open position, e.g. A castle. I think your last point is most apt: it is important to decide what the properties and powers of the players and items of a world are in advance. I.e. Internal consistency of a fantasy world is important. And Tolkien made an interesting point about the magic in his world: it only seemed magical to those who did not possess or understand it. In LoTR he explicitly states that Elves did not consider themselves magical. I like that approach. It is ok to change physics or biology, but they still need to exist for the world to be believable. The changes are "magic".

[@hebl47]

No matter how powerful dragons or magics are ... (smaller) castles are still useful to protect from those pesky peasants! And they'll always exist. :P

[@KaosFireMaker]

Depending on the precise economic structure.

[@hebl47]

So, tell me, how many fantasy settings with dragons, mages and castles do you know where the society wasn't something resembling feudalism or didn't have any peasants?

[@KaosFireMaker]

Most just loosely resemble feudalism, with much of the rampant poverty not evident. Really, magic likely would cause a society that we don't have any thing to compare too. My personal preference narratively speaking is some kind of magocracy, because lets be honest, people who can set other people on fire with their brain are likely to rule over those who can't. Include all of the potential quality of life enhancements magic could provide; charms of bounty for harvests that actually work, undead or golem labor forces, mass long distance communication, travel enhancements, to pick a simple few, could provide huge societal alterations.

[@ParaSpite]

Honestly, if magic is common and available to a lot of people, we'd probably start to see a _lot_ of magically powered technology. Magic wouldn't just add new abilities to the table directly, but it would also likely provide better means for scientific research early on.

[@gabriel300010]

that depends on wether the scientific method develops at all. I find it very hard for people to want to really explain things with something other than "its just fucking magic, deal with it" when people can uite literally do magic... I mean for fucks sake our world strugled with this for ages and we cant even do basic telekinesis. Technology on the other hand would be very interesting...

[@Nomad6763]

I noticed you didn't mention anything about transmutation, for instance a mage who can turn stone to sand simply by touching it. Could you share your thoughts? Big fan, keep up the epic work!

[@shadiversity]

Yep, transmutation without another type of magical defence against it would totally screw castles.

[@xander1052]

Wouldn't it become then a sand castle *sigh*

[@cobraglatiator]

+Il Papa Vitielo Haha! puns!

[@Grumpy_old_Boot]

But it would work in the opposite direction too. Make something out of wood, with intricate forms and reinforcements, and then turn it into steel. That dragon fire just became a lot les dangerous. The same goes with the weapons, any castle that is attacked by a fireball toting battle mage, may have to deal with another fireball toting mage on the battlements, or worse, he may have a proper wizards tower, with focus items that would make his fireballs stronger, longer reaching and more accurate. That enemy warrior next to you might be wielding an enchanted sword that cuts through steel like butter, or has a sword that is on fire! Fire Arrows might suddenly .. well .. actually *_WORK_* !! And so on, and so forth.

[@Grumpy_old_Boot]

syaondri Or they could dig a tunnel.

[@TerLoki]

"I've got an ogre slaying dagger it's got a +5 against ogres!" "But we're not fighting ogres, we're attacking a castle!" Indeed. Also you're not THERE, you're getting DRUNK!

[@robertburns4429]

Do not underestimate human ingenuity. If dragon's and magic existed castles would be designed to compensate.

[@chimerasuchus]

As was pointed out in the video, real-world castles and fortresses were ultimately unable to keep up with more advanced weapons.

[@hanzzel6086]

@@chimerasuchus I mean, bunkers exist (and thier are many networksof them that dwarfwven the largest castle). And are still very effective. They are pretty much just underground fortresses. Sooo, yeah

[@sednabold859]

Balerion did Harrenhal, dragon fire doesn't melt stone keeps!

[@tumbleman5681]

kek

[@nakenmil]

That's just what the Targaryens want you to think, sheeple.

[@sednabold859]

Well it was melted over a hundred years before the events of ASOIAF.

[@alexv3357]

Some two hundred and ninety seven years before the she first chapter of A Game of Thrones, actually.

[@Corey1873]

For what? There's no evidence they had anything to do with 9/11. On top of that we don't execute entire families for what one member does.

[@ocadioan]

But we still do build "castles" in the sense that every time a military base is established, it is built with plenty of defences and obstacles. For instance, the desert military compounds are basically small castles built with sandbag walls and roadblocks.

[@thanatossslay9819]

They work well vs terrorists, civilians and such low danger poor ppl. No one build big military bases for nation vs nation wars. Unless we speak about north Korea I guess XD Military bases are secure because we don't want anyone to steal weapons and they are big couse it is storage for soldiers, guns and supply.

[@Riceball01]

Agreed, this only applies for Forward Operating Bases and outposts that are established in an active combat zone like in Afghanistan. Regular (permanent) bases are fortified by nothing more than chain link fences and a few gates, depending on the size of the base. There are no massive walls, at least none encircling the entire base, no watch towers, searchlights, machine gun nests, nothing like that at all. Your typical military base as about as well fortified as your typical grade school.

[@mrwindupbird101]

They're much more minimalist then a standing castle though. It's defensible but at the same time, you can leave it behind and easily escape it if the situation called for it. I mean most modern artillery would shred a FOB and especially a COB (which is just some sand barriers). The best modern defense is range and spreading out your forces to reduce causalities. That and knowing your opponent has limited options with weaponry.

[@sednabold859]

The same way my fenced front yard is a castle? A defendable position maybe but no castle in a medieval sense.

[@TrabberShir]

Modern military bases are usually significant fortifications built on a variation on the principle of defense in depth. YOu have an Air screen effective radius, yu have a SSM effective zone, you have a SAM effective zone, you have a heavy artilery perimeter you have a light artiler perimeter, you have mapped out vehicle approaches with plans of sabotage and designs of ambush, and as you get close to the base proper you have controlled lines of sight. The idea that modern military bases are "fortified by nothing more than chain link fences and a few gates" is absurd. You simply don't know what modern fortifications look like.

[@Stratplayer05]

But what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen dragon?

[@helgaratbone1691]

Stratplayer05 it could grab the castle by the husk.

[@hanelyp1]

European or Eastern dragon?

[@Smackosynthesis]

Helgamond Ratbone it's not a question of where he grips it

[@GodActio]

Depends on the dragon, pathfinder ancient dragons have a max flight speed of 600 miles per hour in full speed runs

[@Trumplican]

The Witcher 3 battle at Kaer Mohren is a cool example of a castle fight w/ magic. Yennifer puts a protective barrier around the castle which is just awesome and I love Triss' fire balls she launches from inside the castle walls. The Wild Hunt then busts into the inner bailey(i think thats what it would be) with their super cold magic or w/e it is.

[@juangabrielmonserratromero5024]

I'm seeing now all your videos about magic and, I have to say, they are very useful. I am writing a fantasy novel and I have realized that, even tho I have stablished rules for magic, I almost broke them, I will keep an extra eye on that from now on :) thanks!

[@mmirlas2820]

Is that why Cobblestone is Ghast proof?

[@cherrydragon3120]

XD idk

[@andrewmesser2899]

But what about dragons?

[@filipthunell8631]

@@andrewmesser2899 no the ender dragon does in fact, destroy cobblestone on contact

[@filipthunell8631]

@@andrewmesser2899 I know it was a joke you uncultured swine also you responded to my comment twice

[@andrewmesser2899]

@@filipthunell8631 lmao I misread the notification 🤣

[@Jmat-tc8zs]

Shad, imagine dragons carrying loads of soldiers at high altitude, and dropping them with parachutes into a castle. Glorious.

[@Nethan2000]

I have a vague feeling those fantasy paratroopers would be extremely vulnerable to arrows.

[@PrimordialNightmare]

Give em platemail then!

[@mergele1000]

I think the problem would be more the density of their landing area. Two land in the keep, one on a tower, one on the keep roof and three right outside the walls. [sarcasm] Very useful indeed [/sarcasm].

[@Jmat-tc8zs]

mergele A fair point. More accurate landings could be achieved by flying lower, which of course risks getting taken apart by the castle defenses.

[@Khast_exe]

indeed

[@taylordavis6895]

Skyrim handles this balancing act quite well. The castles in Skyrim were built before the dragons returned, and teleportation doesn't exist in Skyrim.

[@Sara3346]

Correction: after the dragons were banished.

[@ElGringoCastellano]

Taylor Davis Poor Mark, Recall, Almsivi Intervention, and Divine Intervention Morrowind was so cool...

[@helpivebeenkidnapped6195]

Taylor Davis Thats why even the ancient nord cities like Sarthall were underground in the dwarven fashion.

[@oicmorez4129]

teleportation might not exist in skyrim itself, but it did in almost every other TES game in some way

[@KaratekidSMW]

ElGringoCastellano Those were still limited teleportation effects, though. You had to be physically at the spot you wanted to teleport to later for Mark and Recall, and the interventions only teleport you to nearby shrines (and cannot teleport followers). Unless there was an Almsivi shrine or shrine to the Nine Divines inside the castle walls, the spells wouldn't be useful in sieges.

[@hikhuphoenix4107]

BTW, wooden rooves were used in the medieval period, as you said. The extra money spent on tiled rooves to defend against flying creatures would make castles a lot rarer, or stone rooves designed against boulders (these, I think, are possible with there level of technology). Maybe castles would become more like fortified domes?

[@wolfancap6897]

Me watching an old Shad video: "What is that weird noise?" My cat: "Maybe its the lower quality mic, since he didnt have the same support from fans as he has now?" Me: *stares at the cat in shock* My cat: "Um... Meow?"

[@napoleonboneabark6960]

Shad, Can you say hello to me? Also what is your opinion on Warhammer fantasy?

[@shadiversity]

Hello, and unfortunatly I'm not very up to date on warhammer

[@napoleonboneabark6960]

Dang was really looking forward to your two cents.

[@Nerobyrne]

2c

[@chriskila1752]

please make a warhammer episode. i love the lore and i am curios what your opion is about it.

[@napoleonboneabark6960]

I believe you would like looking into it, Shad. It is basically our history with some fantasy painted onto it.

[@sirnilsolav6646]

I've recently tried to imagine what impact trolls would have on castles and weapons if they existed. The Trolls I'm talking about are the dumb and heavy kind like you see in the Hobbit. They're antopromorphic big and dumb creatures that have been enslaved or domesticated by Orcs to fight for them. What weapons would the good races use against them? What would the castles look like? Would they go for smaller gates or bigger? I've think the best weapons would be archers, crossbow men and pikemen. You don't want to run into an angry troll that can smash you before you've managed to hit him with your sword. Instead you want a big distance between you and the troll while still being able to damage the Troll. The problem arises when you come to the issue of armour for the trolls. If the trolls have metal plate armour, you're kind of screwed. You would have to lay out traps for the trolls. Giant holes they can fall into, things that will make the stumble and fall, like tigth rope and overpower the troll when he is on the ground. Dragons are a more difficult question. If you could have ballistas or shoot net that tigthens when it impacts it target, you might be able to trap the dragon. Depending on the dragon and if it's skin/scales or whatever has poor defence, you could penetrate it with enough arrows. I'd love to hear your perspective on trolls effect on castle design. Imagine the trolls have the size and strength of the ones in Lord of the Rings.

[@johnjones_1501]

What do you mean "good races"? #hordelivesmatter

[@darkwing_don2391]

I wish more writers considered how different races would affect weaponry and tactics. For example, I think dwarves would fight almost exclusively with pole weapons because they're so short. I like the thought of dwarves being the fantasy equivalent of Swiss Pikemen. I can see dwarves organizing massive pike formations into mercenary bands.

[@blackdeath4eternity]

being a mostly underground race most of the time id only see that if they were on the march... axes & hammers make more sense in confined spaces if you have a really dense strong but short body, i mean i agree that spears would be used alongside even in defense of their homes but i have a harder time seeing pike formations underground when you can just make incredible deathtraps & choke points.

[@darkwing_don2391]

Oh I agree there. Pikes are field weapons. I'm thinking of instances where they aren't in confined spaces. For example, situations like the Battle of the Five Armies in the Hobbit. The dwarves marched from the Iron Hills to Erebor and then fought on the plains with mattocks. Pikes would have been considerably more useful there.

[@darkwing_don2391]

I think indoors axes, spears, and poleaxes would be common primary weapons.

[@valthearastormcry1420]

"But we arent fighting ogers we're trying to attack a castle" This made me nearly die laughing

[@eitberko]

Wow, great video! One thing I feel is missing is a discussion on range. Even if a wizard's fireballs were strong enough to blast straight through the wall, if his range is like an archer's range the castle would still be defendable. Since the defenders would have a longer range due to height, that wizard would be turned into a pin cushion before he threw his first fireball. Same goes for dragons: if the dragon needs to get close to breath fire, he could be shot by archers on the walls/roofs. The only real problem would be flying creatures/mounts making walls useless.

[@rjhobbes6441]

very interesting vid, summed up nicely at the end, offence vs defence, limitations within the universe set. Also that last bit about nuclear bunkers i did not know.

[@ardemys3580]

I know it's a big one but could you don one on minas tirith? not quite a castle, I like the tiered defense, but I always questioned the narrow streets in effectiveness to defend, although it's a bonus to attack, plus the tiered system means that the lower walls being taken still offers the defenders the high ground

[@shadiversity]

Done this in my review of the castles and cities in lord of the rings ^_^

[@ardemys3580]

Oh! I'll have a look! I love your videos man :)

[@nooneofimportance2110]

Yeah, D&D magic really makes castles hard to justify. Disintegration spells, Transmutation spells, Summoning spells, various Evocation spells, various Force spells, too many ways to breach or circumvent the walls of a castle. Then again D&D also has too many creatures that make castles pointless too. Still a very good and interesting video. I enjoyed it very much.

[@Aplesedjr]

NooneofImportance those are also extremely difficult to use spells I that world. That's why even a max level character can only cast 1 top tier spell every day.

[@nooneofimportance2110]

+Logan Sanders Depends on the game version you're looking at. For instance in 3/3.5 Disintegrate is a 6th level spell, most mages can cast it at 11th - 12th level, and most mages can cast it once or twice a day. A small squad of 12th lvl mages could punch a considerably large hole in the wall. And epic spell caster could use even more devastating abilities like Sphere of Ultimate Destruction which is a 9th lvl long duration disintegrate spell. But, even if you don't have access to mages above say 10th lvl. they can still devastate castle defenders with summons, evocations, transmutations. The Summon Monster series of spells allows things like Elementals, Celestial, and Fiendish things to be summoned. A Thoqqua for instance can burn right through a castle wall and it's summonable with Summon Nature's Ally 3. Conversly manning the walls of a castle with mid to low level mages means you can decimate incoming attackers fairly easily, Magic Missile, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Scorching Ray. 1-3 level spells, that aren't really all that taxing. Hell even casting True Strike makes a significant difference. That's not even getting into the plethora of creatures. However, you are right too, magic is supposed to be fairly hard to use, and high level mages are not something you come across very often.

[@ubernerrd]

Cast Earthquake and watch the castle crumble.

[@TheArklyte]

NooneofImportance or use said transmutation during construction maybe? Go W40k scale on those walls with it?

[@trevynlane8094]

There is also a counter for every siege spell in D&D. Also, spell casters above lvl 10 should be rare in any campaign (1 per 100,000 people)

[@Phoenix_254]

One question I'd raise is: How prevalent is the magic in a fantasy world? Is it common? Is the majority only weak magic with a few powerful spell casters? The campaign I play in dungeons and dragons is that there is a decent amount of spell casters, however the vast majority are below 6th level and spell casters become noteworthy by the time they reach 10th level.

[@OriginalSoulbourne]

@shadiversity Bit late on this, but if you want a standard D&D 3.5 overly detailed look on how magic plays into architecture, the stronghold builders guide is a thing. If you have the money can get everything from braziers that scream or send flares into the sky as an alert, to walls that nullify magic, to battlemap tables that can track multiple people up to a mile away from the table in real time and give basic alerts on if they're healthy or on the ground dying. Also includes details about how much "hp" walls have based on thickness, and their damage resistance, plus details on enchanted ammo, such as a rock fired from a trebuchet that releases the cloud kill spell. It is incredibly expensive but with a good treb crew all of a suddene an entire courtyard of defenders is dead. There's even internal things like enchanted tiles that can boost the defense of defenders against certian types of attackers, rooms that can expediate healing of wounds, and ones that have descriptions specifying that using a room that charms anyone in it to obey the rulers commands will likely not only nullify any agreements made with dignataries there but almost assuredly piss them and those they represent off.

[@D.Trinchuk]

The question you should ask is not "would castles be useful" in the world of magic but "would castles be needed". What is the point of castles in the first place? To stop armies. And would armies even exist in the world of magic? If you don't put really strict limitations to your magic then armies become really useless. Just imagine what a fireball throwing wizard could do to an army of whatever type. If you have a setting with high magic power where each fraction has at least one wizard the can control elements or smth. no opponent in his clear mind would bring an army to attack this fraction. So, strong magic -> no armies -> no need for castles. Obviously, if you have strong magic, you need something to counter it (counterspells, magic stoppers, kryptonite..). Then use these counters, no need for walls. So in this setting something like village with wooden walls would be more logical. Otherwise, you can limit your magic (no more than one fireball a day). Then armies have their say and so do castles. And if magic has strong limitations, then you would probably be able to set them up the way castles would work well against it. And what about dragons? Well, against them, in my opinion, castles make perfect sense. Two scenarios. 1. Dragons are almost unkillable godlike creatures with impenetrable skin and stone melding firebreath. In this case they should be extremely rare (or something is very wrong with your setting), so the chances for you to be attacked by them are rare. So, build castles. 2. Dragons are just strong magical creatures. In this case you just MUST have castles against them. You can put a lot of anti-air defense on your walls, so that it would be suicidal for a dragon to fly over them without any cover. Any giant creature can be destroyed by focusing ballistas or magical missiles over it from the walls. So enemy would use dragons only when he decides to start the full-scale assault. In this case flying creatures with provided cover can be very dangerous, yes. But just imagine how the dragon alone can demolish you settlement if you don't have walls with ballistas. You really need those castles against them! One thing the really would be redundant against dragons (or other flying creatures) is high towers. Well, they are quite illogical in the realistic setting; in dragon fantasy those high towers are just ridiculous. But the castle with low buildings is perfectly put.

[@metalvisionsongcontest7055]

Ah, so this particular video is the origin of the "What about dragons?" meme. *Very interesting...* 😊

[@MaximilianBrandt]

I mean, something is wrong with this one. Even if the dragon breath is like a flamethrower, you have a goddamn torrent of flaming liquid coming at you. Liquid is a problem - it splatters, it leaks, it gets everywhere - and it burns oxygen out of air. WW1 flamethrowers were pretty effective - even more so, WW2 variants. However, most victims did not even have a scratch or burn on them - they died from inhaling the carbon monooxide that was created as the fuel burned. So, do you have a chance surviving a dragon breath? This thing works like an attack helicopter - and what forbids a dragon from breathing fire into your windows and firing ports? Nothing. This is why flamethrowers (and dragons that are a huge living flying flamethrower) are so cool.

[@nickolasdiamond5619]

Yeah but don't dragons have gas tanks? Ones they run out that's it. They gotta wait another couple x hours/days/weeks. Before being able to attack.

[@gaolmiralis2247]

A bit late to the party, my apologies, but what you're saying is that Dragons would have to store that liquid somewhere. It would mean that either they wouldn't be able to breathe fire for very long or be very heavy to carry a lot of liquid, which in turn means that they are more heavy, thus they need bigger wings that make perfect targets for ranged weaponry (unless they are using magic to fly, like in The Elder Scrolls). It would be more logical if it's some kind of gas, which means it is less effective but you can carry more of it

[@MaximilianBrandt]

@@gaolmiralis2247 I completely agree with your point. Yet it still stands that it's not the fire that kills, but products of burning. Even if it's a gas, one puff into the enclosed space will make air a deadly poison.

[@gaolmiralis2247]

​@@MaximilianBrandt I guess people would develop some form of protection. Perhaps some thick wet sheets over windows and murder holes that they would push aside to shoot. It would certainly reduce the rate of fire and allow the enemy infantry to approach the walls with less casualties... Or entice the defenders to use more crossbows. Of course, that would also mean that each tower and section of the wall would have a water supply to quickly deal with any eventual fires, and during a prolonged siege, that would be huge. Having to constantly keep a water reserve ready means less water for the defenders to drink. Should water be a limited ressource (like if there's no well or any water source has been poisoned), it would surely benefit the attacker. It would also mean that the defenders would have some wet sheets ready for themselves to be able to breathe, combine that with wearing closed helmets and they will tire very quickly, and during an assault, that is huge. Also, on a side note, a dragon can fly and doesn't need any siege equipment, and if the attacking army has multiple dragons, they can harass the defenders day and night with a constant threat of fire breaking out. Combine that with the fact that most medieval castles were at least half- wood, if not completely wooden, it is huge. The poor defenders would have to be constantly on the lookout for a fire hazard. They will most likely be dead tired nearly all the time after a week, and would be no match for a determined attacker. In such a setting, my guess is that sieges would be really short compared to what we've seen historically BUT! What about -dragons- the allies of the besieged force? I think that, to be effective and able to breathe fire on a regular basis, a dragon must be in good health. Well-fed. And we know how medieval logistic was. I don't think that a general would use such an effective fighting force as a dragon to carry around supplies, unless his kingdom has *a lot* of dragons, or some dragons are useless as a fighting force ( _which is very unlikely_ ). Therefore, supply lines are good old carts filled with a lot of dried meat. We're talking dozens, perhaps hundreds of kilograms of dried meat. This is a slow-moving target. So, in order to diminish the effectiveness of dragons as a fighting force, the best way is to hit them where it hurts the most: the stomach. Once again, and this time with dragons, we are back to the very basics of warfare: hit the supplies. It wouldn't take long for a hungry dragon to start eating horses, and when horses are no longer available... Yup. Your most effective weapon just turned against you

[@hasanmuttaqin464]

"she... she died.." "ok, *BUT WHAT ABOUT THE DRAGONS?* "

[@purpleunicornmedia]

As per your request at the end, I was thinking that castles would be built with fire dispersal in mind. You might have an outer shell of tunnels built on the side, so that dragonfire hits and enters and is channelled safely away from the main buildings, exiting over the walls etc. I suppose you could also employ giant reflecting surfaces, dragons would soon learn not to strike them perpendicular but even when hit obliquely they would deflect the flame back and up into the air.

[@selwrynn6702]

I really like the idea of travel through teleportation circles. No personal teleports but kind of like stargate, if you know the address and have your own circle you can get to another. So you would likely have a specific building that is heavily guarded which all travel goes through and probably only specific wizards would be allowed to activate the portals. it still gives the possibility of sabotage from within but makes it more difficult

[@yogurtofthemultiverse2200]

This is actually how the largest wizard College in my dnd world functions. Aside from the main tower, which is all connected, none of the classes or dorms are connected by physical doors. Only a mage with a large amount of skill could successfully even get into one of the classes without permission-- after all, only the teachers can operate the circles, and since the turrets are all floating and are spatially locked, if you kill the teacher, you're trapped. There is no door. You are now stuck in a room with 35 angry teenage wizards. Get prepared to get fucking blasted.

[@strategicgamingwithaacorns2874]

_Order Of The Stick_ had a spell called Cloister, which prevented teleportation and scrying in a certain area- don't know if normal D&D has it though.

[@Phoenix_254]

There are spells to prevent teleporting and scrying. However they tend to be high level and one needs to cast at least two spells (one for teleport and the other for scrying) however they don't guarantee protecting as some of them can be beaten by spell caster checks against the spellcasters check. Plus they don't last forever.

[@Joesolo13]

Nathan Fite generally if you have the resources for a castle you'd have the resources to have some strong wizards

[@degurkin]

unless you cast permanancy But then that means spending a glorious 12.5k Gold coins PER ROOM building a functional castle costs around 215k Gold for reference So if you have a vast empire with 60 odd castles you're gonna spend your entire economy solely on upkeeping magical wards for your kitchen!

[@briankenney9528]

you don't need to protect every room, just the outer ones

[@degurkin]

Brian Kenney Especially the inner ones holy shit You want a wizard to teleport in like 20 guys into your inner sanctum? just a Wizard popping in into your bedchambers casting acid splash?

[@razgrizknight8818]

I think the harry potter hogwarts is a good example of a usable castle in a magic world

[@bmxriderforlife1234]

the black castle in urubaen from the eragon series. dragons and fire and magic be damned. well for the most part.

[@neilthorley1664]

In terms of wards, yes. In terms of physical protection and castleyness? Well...let's just say it was definitely designed as a school

[@razgrizknight8818]

Maybe, but it does provide some defensive capabilities on the bridges at least.

[@farmerboy916]

I think the most interesting part about hogwarts is that it's gone the opposite way; physical defenses are pretty much obselete and let's be honest you're not encountering many proper sieges in the 1990's (as well as muggle weapons exist that nullify those anyway). As well as any potential enemy not having enough people to properly siege it so they never will and will instead find magical ways around it, and you can't afford a real garrison, so it's gone to almost entirely magical defenses.

[@razgrizknight8818]

farmerboy916 Well that's what happened m8 :v Walls are worth shit in HP so instead they spammed protego shields. And in magic wand land they can incapacitate enemy combatants without killing so they really don't need weapons. The same thing you use to mop the floor can defend you in case of an attack. Also they had statues, the only reason they passed the statues was the giants and.... Well brooms.

[@pungivergiverofpuns3611]

New Shad video! Sorry sleep, you'll have to wait.

[@David-uc4hc]

lol, I literally just had the same mental debate. Shad won (obviously).

[@GriffinPilgrim]

But what about Dragons?

[@Khast_exe]

*SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK*

[@GriffinPilgrim]

Maniacal Ghoul And being awake is for the weekend.

[@אביבעזר]

of course it's for the weekend. how can you sleep when it's so lit?

[@EmeraldEyesEsoteric]

To be fair, I know of NO D&D or RPG game where Magick can be used to destroy walls, (unless it is something very specific to the plot) Realisticly, if an enemy wizard approachs the castle, the soldiers best bet would be to retreat deeper inside, rather then standing on the walls. Most spells require a range that would be considered inside the battle area. The other defense is of course, for the Castle to have a few Wizards of their own.

[@Rioluman10]

This discussion kind of reminds me of the High Clerist's Tower in DragonLance. Rather than building a standard defensive structure, they made a tower with a bunch of entrances. The people of Krynn thought that this configuration was nonsensical until they placed a dragon orb (has the power to attract dragons) in the center. Once a dragon reaches in, they lower the gates and the dragon is trapped to their head making it easier to defeat.

[@kokofan50]

There's a number of problems with just talking about magic. There's all kinds of different magic that work differently and have all kinds of different levels of power. Shooting fireballs isn't going to much to a stone wall. A power earthquake could flatten a whole castle. Then there's things like curses, which bypass the idea of fortifications altogether.

[@Nethan2000]

I'm of the opinion that all technological (and in this case magical) advancement in the end turns the fight into a numbers game. You cast an earthquake spell? I cast a ground stabilization spell. Maybe if your earthquake is powerful enough, it will break through my defenses, maybe my defenses will completely nullify your offense. You cast a magic curse on me? Aha! I have an amulet on my neck that provides protection against curses. Maybe you'll defeat it, maybe you won't. As I said, a numbers game. Of course, the setting may affect the outcome, for example ruling in that it takes more energy to cast a curse than create an equivalent protective amulet, so defense will be stronger by default. You'll still be able to win if your mage is a lot better than mine, but it will affect the development of tactics in our world, as in people will try to find a more efficient way of causing damage.

[@thanatossslay9819]

+Nethan2000 Ok so yes you are right in many cases BUT in realistic sense and in many games your action will always be far more effective than any "passive" effect, just like in reality. If you shoot nuke on to my bunker (passive) it will got crushed BUT if you shoot nuke and I shoot my anyrocket systems then I have good chance to destroy your nuke. It works the same in many games and settings. For example if mage A put up magic spell which protects him from all magic then you can say "w8 it is too strong he have bigger "number" so he is better he wins" but what if mage B knows it and uses magic which can destroy any magic protection. If there isn't anything "absolute" in given setting like "god power it is best end" you will or at least should be able to find counter to it. Even if enemy have bigger "numbers".

[@Nethan2000]

If the mage you're trying to defeat is more powerful than you, as in he's able to command more powerful magical force, I don't see him not being aware of that spell that destroys any magic protection and not having contingencies. I think your only chance of winning is utilizing some hidden advantage he doesn't know about and catching him unprepared. But surprise advantage is very unreliable and in general you should bet on the better mage to win. Oh, and about that nuke metaphor. Yeah, if the setting rules in that offense is by default stronger than defense, then usefulness of defense becomes very limited. Magical warfare will probably shift in the direction of stealth and throwing the first strike.

[@thanatossslay9819]

"warfare will probably shift in the direction of stealth and throwing the first strike" just like reality. 100% true in many game settings as well. In D&D at some point you will find so optimized builds that they will be able to deal thousands of damage in instant so what's the point in having a lot of HP or a lot of damage reduction or anything else. If he hits you, you die. :D

[@coolchrisable]

then we also have to think of magical runes and barriers witch can be added to a castles keep and walls witch can help it withstand magical attacks/spells then we have to think about other magical defenses like magic bolts the strength of the wizards in ? like is an imperial wizard stronger than an ach mage or are they equal in power or does it come down to the amount of spells the wizard can throw/ chant

[@Hon_cb1kr]

well in most fantasy novels dragons can be countered by other flying creatures. In wasrcraft for example they have wyverns, Griffins, gargoyles etc.. Only in Game of Thrones there is a problem because the author chosed to have 99% humans and only dragons as a flying mythical creatures in his story. As for magic. If swords can be enchanted why can't a wall be covered in glyphs, runes, sigils and wards.

[@themoagoddess1820]

maybe those arrays lose their effectiveness, because a sword is both smaller and sees more direct use(and thus passive reinforcement from the user's magical ability) than walls do.

[@Hon_cb1kr]

The Moa Goddess sure anything is possible i was being hyperthetical so yes and yes.

[@GodActio]

There are guards and wards spells in dungeons and dragons for this purpose, along with dimensional anchor to keep pesky teleporters out and spells that prevent flying. If we have magic, the screw ballistas, we can have magic ray guns mounted on the castles with city sized power arrays to really clobber anything that wants to come in from the air

[@TheCherryTrader]

Watch the skies traveller...

[@sandroguzelj1234]

fuck you nazeem! my necromancer killed you, revived you and watched you getting torn apart by mudcrabs like 20 times and it never gets old. guess you wont be going to the cloud district anymore

[@paweandonisgawralidisdobrz2522]

What about the DRAGONS?

[@cherrydragon3120]

@@sandroguzelj1234 omg xD 😂😂😂

[@Viech54]

As you said, there are many things to take into consideration when deciding the usefulness of castles against magic or dragons. Some other points that need to be taken into consideration when thinking about magic vs. castles is the distance at which magic can be used to attack castles, the time it takes to cast a spell, if the mage can decide where the magic will appear and the general power of magic. A magic spell that can attack a castle from miles away instantly with a meteor shower would render castles obsolete. Mind control or instant death magic can screw up a castle real good. Being able to fly would work as well or flying spells on the castle walls or even part of them to create a breach for an army to infiltrate a castle. Castles with a nearby water supply are in particular danger. That could be used against the castle to drown everyone inside. The same goes for pretty much any magic that can influence nature. Earthquakes, a landslide, an avalanche, ... Pretty much anything goes. But I don't think castles would be helpless against magic. In any fictional setting with magic, it'd make no sense to only have offensive magic and no defensive magic. Even something as 'simple's as a barrier might do the trick. Place an invisible barrier right in front of the castle walls, then let your troops act as decoy and have them pretend to attack the castle. The defenders would try to shower them with arrows or use their ranged weaponry in general, it'd be blocked by the barrier and fall on the defender's heads. All in all, it'd probably come down to the skill of the opposing mages. If the attacker is better than the defender, the castle is pretty much done for, if the defending magic is superior, the attacking mage would be killed and the attacking troups would find themself under attack by magic and whatever the castle has to offer with very few means to defend themselves against it. For dragons, t depends on the kind of dragon. There's the Asian (Chinese) dragon that looks more like a flying snake (aka has a more flexible body and would be able to bypass the roof you mentioned) compared to the dragons we see most of the time in Western fictional settings. Other important factors are the thickness and hardness of dragon scales as well as the strength of dragons. Can they use their claws to destroy castles or maybe even crash into a watch tower or other parts of a castle to make it collapse while they get out pretty much unscathed? Can dragons create strong winds (with their wings) that would render ranged weapons useless. What's needed to penetrate dragon scales? Is a ballista enough to get it done? Is any ballistic weapon capable of destroying a dragon's wings to force it on the ground? How effective are melee weapons against dragons? Lastly, can dragons use magic? I'll stop here. There are way too many factors to take into consideration. We could talk about this for hours on end and still wouldn't be done. Tl;dr: It depends on the setting, there's no universal truth. If you think castles are helpless against magic and dragons, then your opinion is just as good as those saying castles are superior.

[@leodouskyron5671]

The answer depends on A) is magic able to do effects that negate the advantages of height, area control fire power concentration that is the how of a castle working B) Is the magic able to operate in a swift enough time frame to be used and non-contractible but active measures C) Are the effects of magic blocked by elements the castle has as part of it D) Is effective magic common place? If in the aggregate the castle provides help after answering these questions then they make sense.

[@maledwarfwarrior]

I think most fantasy castes would need some adaptation to deal with magical threats, but most settings have magic as a rare thing. About as rare as, for example, prosthetic limbs. Only even more expensive. Imagine having to choose between hiring another 20-200 peasants with crossbows & armor and a wizard who MIGHT know a spell that could push the war in your favor, but can't wear armor, swing a sword, and is as fragile as a glass window.

[@paweandonisgawralidisdobrz2522]

But what about the DRAGONS?

[@maledwarfwarrior]

Paweł Gawralidis Too expensive, not enough bang for your buck. Just hire more infantry and drown your enemy in a sea of blood & iron.

[@brandonogden3498]

"... best option would be to place a ward where the defenders cannot cast magic, but neither can the attackers..." Alright, I'm picking up what you're putting down, but let me come at this point from a different angle; sieges. I magically construct normal siege weaponry, and magically feed all my troops. You? You have to rebuild by hand, cannot magically heal, and will starve.

[@General12th]

That is a very good tactic.

[@isodoubIet]

You can magically paste the outside of the castle's magic exclusion zone with concrete, sealing the defenders inside in the dark until they starve, suffocate, go insane, or all of the above.

[@lukec2004]

You could just cast that on the walls but the insides of your castle would still be able to

[@daddyleon]

I think you'd like this video about dragons (and castles) and technological progress: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hnXHfKCuZbWKbdU

[@shadiversity]

Awesome video, I loved it!

[@daddyleon]

I was hoping you would :)

[@basilb4524]

I clicked on the video so fast, only to see i've already watched it... :C

[@daddyleon]

Sorry mate :( I know your pain though, you're not alone.

[@SmaugTheTerrible]

Ditto. Nerdwriter is a great channel

[@ardinhelme687]

So I've watched a few of the Castle videos around here, and I'm with you on most points in this video. Magic will either break everything or fix itself, and flying is definitely the most threatening thing a Dragon has on a castle. What I'm curious about is what changes would you make to a castle to defend against Dragons or Skyships? My knee-jerk response would probably be tower mounted Ballistas and moving the more important non-defensive functions of the Castle down into the core of the Castle, leaving the outer walls and upper levels for defense. But those are just my thoughts, I'd love to hear yours!

[@DuskEalain]

Hmm, well when it comes to magic a big answer that always came to my head was a "Fight fire with fire" mentality, like how you explained "magical defences". You have Castle Evienstruaght, capital of the High Elves. And either as a precautionary action or after an unfortunate run-in, the High King has his mages create a magic crystal that creates an invisible 'dome' of sorts, a magical barrier to protect the city from hostile magic. As for the full question in hand, I think it's especially a case by case basis with various magic, creatures, dragons, etc. as different ones would have varying effects on castles on their usefulness. Fantasy is alway a fun topic to discuss as it's definitely a very deep one, with various questions to ask and ponder.

[@shaderunner8220]

"But what about dragons!?!?"- my new favorite question dodger.

[@SilverStarHeggisist]

NORAD'S main bunker is said to be built to withstand a 15 kiloton nuke dropped on it. And even North Korea has their facilities deep enough to protect against many nukes.

[@CaptBucket]

There's a Troll in the dungeon! ah but what about the dragons?

[@windwalker5765]

I'm assuming there is some limitation to how much a dragon can carry, and furthermore, I'm assuming that limit is about half a ton. (Draco in Dragonheart carried 3 humans and 1 horse a significant distance without tiring.) That's about six people with arms and armor. Not a significant force, and they'd be under immediate heavy attack. If you have access to only one dragon, you wouldn't want to have it fight. Use it to carry one rider with... A map and a telescope. Air recon would allow a competent commander to devastate an opposing army in a medieval setting.

[@AyameAkito]

One thing to have in mind depending on the fantasy setting dragons can breath other things than fire, like you know ACID, electricity or ice, they also could potentially grow larger than any castle or wall (Great Wyrms age category for dragons in D&D tend to be as large as a mountain) also, Red dragons fire breath can melt stone easily. in regards to magic, dispel magic, antimagic field and other magic effects that nullifie magic can me overcome by dispelling such effect, destroying the rune/artifact that creates the effect or similar. also fire ball may not be enough to destroy a castle wall but there are other spells like "shape stone" that lets you shape any stone structure or terrain, meteor swarm, World Wave (that creates something similar to an earthquake that can create a 30 foot tall tsunami (which would most likely tear a castle wall).

[@hiimme101]

GUYS! DRAGONFIRE CAN'T MELT STEEL BEAMS!!!

[@discododo0468]

*Illuminati* : Stay right were you are

[@dreddbolt]

Leaving a youtube comment because the algorithms have been unfair as of late.

[@harrisonmcarthur7816]

#WhatAboutTheDragons?

[@cobraglatiator]

"haha this is tank!" "what about dragons?!"

[@TheAsvarduilProject]

Your laser cannon proposal is interesting. BUT WHAT ABOUT THE DRAGONS!?

[@tba113]

The first thing I thought of in this video is a Michael Stackpole fantasy series called the DragonCrown War from about 15 years ago, which involved a big change in one of the big castles. The fortress began as a tall, turreteted (and likely machicolated) high-fantasy-style castle with a large outer wall. After a dragon-attack-related remodeling project, its description was a lot closer to a star-fort, with a modern bunker complex comprising its outer defenses. The main character conceded it was a lot more practical against magic and monsters, even if its reinforced-concrete construction was kind of boring to look at.

[@joethesheep4675]

another thing to consider is how "common" powerful mages are. In lord of the rings for example there dont seem to be that many mages. And which of those could take down a wall or teleport a large force ontop the walls? (could Radagst do that? Could Gandalf even do that?). Or take the fantasy-universe of "Eragon" for example where mages are very rare and really powerful mages (like Eragon himself) are soooo incredibly rare that its very unlikely that an attacking army does even have one.

[@coltendavison4351]

lord of the rings wizards have extreme power and magic based on the books, they just cant use it openly in middle earth or else people would try to learn it so thats why its soft magic. Sauron was just as powerful as the wizards and he used his magic openly(hence the ring and barad dur and mordor)