Shadow of the Colossus: The B3 Mystery

[@JCBassCovers]

"It would not make sense to show the same t hing twice" proceeds to have 3 minotaur colossi lol.

[@kaiquegabriel214]

And 3 small Colossi kkj

[@ragnarokstravius2074]

@@kaiquegabriel214 No, just 2, Kuromori is still a large enemy

[@kaiquegabriel214]

@@ragnarokstravius2074 I mean Celosia, Cenobia and Sirius

[@ragnarokstravius2074]

@@kaiquegabriel214 but technically, Sirius doesn't exist in game. Which I believe is what the guy above us all was talking about, Valus, Barba and Argus being in the game, but Kuromori not having a brother/sister colossus.

[@peculiarjack617]

@@ragnarokstravius2074 I think what Fumito Ueda means is how you fight them In other words, you fight shiromori like you do with it's sibling

[@whaith1359]

developers: forget to fix a small piece of texture resolution all of the Shadow of the Colossus comunity: 👁 👄 👁

[@painkiller_j3071]

I honestly believe SotC is the most documented game on history.

[@Baddaby]

Doesn't come even close to Ocarina of Time

[@GuilhermeTB1]

@@Baddaby I know nothing about Ocarina. What is it about the game that people document so much?

[@Baddaby]

@@GuilhermeTB1 it's one of the most speedrun (speedran? Lol) games of all time It also was a big part of the childhood of many people growing up in the late 90's and 2000's, so a bunch of people were (and still are) constantly tearing the game apart in search of secrets, new glitches, speedrun strategies etc. For example, a beta of the game just got leaked and people are already digging into it to find out more things, 20+ years after release

[@Baddaby]

@@GuilhermeTB1 also since it launched in the early years of the internet, a bunch of fan theories and rumours spread out, making people try to prove or debunk them

[@darshio8307]

@@Baddaby I think both games still very close talking about documented games. I mean, its not like ocarina of time have an entire document of more than 1000 pages of people talking about any possible secret in the game like Nomad documented

[@sa-x7882]

Great job everyone! it's so awesome that we're still discovering things about this game. It feels amazing to be a part of this community!

[@scorpiothk307]

I think Shiromori would be a cool name for Yamori A, since it contrasts and compliments its twin nicely (plus, Yamori A looks to be a lot lighter in color than Kuromori)

[@meowsandstuff]

Shiromori was decided on as a name for Yamori A a while ago. ;)

[@pikapat321]

@@meowsandstuff Personally prefer Izumori as the files associated with it all have Izu in their name

[@meowsandstuff]

@@pikapat321 Izu was the signature for one of the developers.

[@peculiarjack617]

I think fighting Shiromori is a bit like fighting Kuromori With the key difference is while you use cover and distract Kuromori to hit it's legs You must actively avoid being hit yourself and hit Shiromori's while in mid-combat

[@lincolnlog5977]

That’s a quality name they should put it on the wiki

[@brayan_lopes]

That is so weird. If this colossus had an arena, why are there no more pictures of him? All the other colossus that almost made it to the final version have more images and even Wander appears in some of them. Roc, Phoenix, Sirius and Devil all have images of wander fighting them.

[@dragstra8448]

I don’t know the actual reason but I’m gonna guess it’s because Ueda thought it was cooler to show off unique unused colossi rather than a clone unused colossi.

[@brayan_lopes]

@@dragstra8448 This doesn't make sense. Roc is basically a clone of Avion.

[@dragstra8448]

Also, it’s very hard to see, but Wander actually is on Yamori A’s back in that picture. Wiki page for Yamori A has a closeup to help you see it.

[@mrroblinx]

@@brayan_lopes it is not

[@Bunny-zg4hd]

@@brayan_lopes Technically it's the other way around. Avion used to have a totally different strategy where you would hide and avoid gusts of wind then climb up its tail, but when Roc was removed they recycled his strategy into Avion's

[@GermanixTV]

I miss so much this type of videos i need more info about this game 😢

[@TheFatestPat]

So if we try to think like developers, we might get some idea on how we ended up with our final 16 colossi. Monkey and Griffin were started on early, but for whatever reasons they got dropped. To make things easier they started making "twins", 2 geckos, 2 worms, 2 birds. I'm sure Ueda wanted all 24 to be unique, but they just didn't have the time, budget or space to make that happen. And even though they ended up having to cut the total down to 16, they still weren't able to make all of them unique. So they had to compromise by having 2 smaller tigers, and 3 minotaurs.

[@YamchaTheWriter]

There were 3 birds though: Avion, Phoenix, and Avus

[@Lexard7]

I Absolutely Agree: "We don't want to show the same thing twice..." Five minutes later... Kay guys, Minotaur A, B and C are ready?!

[@highlightermarca-texto3281]

I've just started getting into this game and this is the most active community for an almost 20 year old game I've seen. Funny 'cause there seems to be so little actual gameplay.

[@amaanumar5226]

I don't know why but it's kinda fun to these mysteries

[@wesleyfilms]

I used to think he was just an early version of Kuromori, but that statue data doesn’t lie.

[@VOGS597]

i wish some day one of the creators can clear the picture of the early colossus location and the early map

[@arkhamblackheart3529]

There's something weird at 4:24 statues list. Yamori A and B are separated, but there's also 2 versions of Malus on that list (Evis and Buddha, kinda 2 different stages of development for the same colossus). Another weird thing is that yamori A has the same face and tail as kuromori, but kuromori is listed as yamori B, so he's definitely not A. I wonder if they're just very similar or if kuromori was A and they chenged his name to B and actually never made a second gecko (or started to make one) and the thing that we know as A is just an early Kuromori, while the 2nd gecko was never shown to us or was never modeled

[@Jaikhay231]

Early Kuromori looks a lot different and always had an armoured back.

[@hakaseshinonome7456]

So is a tenth colossus possible? Just as Yamori A was to replace Monkey or Griffin, a tenth must have existed.

[@gentleearthquake3350]

I don't think Yamori A replaced these two. I think these three were in development together but Griffin and Monkey simply didn't make it to be placed in the map

[@Kambocya7482]

@@wolfc1138 isnt buddha another name for malus?

[@dragstra8448]

@@Kambocya7482 Buddha is what Malus originally was. It was half the size, the model itself was slightly different and it had a different arena. It has a separate stage from Evis (Malus) as well. Although it is technically a beta version of Malus, I personally consider it a separate colossus because Barba exists and they're the beta version of Valus.

[@pikapat321]

@@dragstra8448 Barba is not a beta Valus, Barba was added very late into the game and used Valus' old temple mechanic once Roc was scrapped

[@dragstra8448]

@@pikapat321 I know that, I'm saying that Barba's fight is identical to Beta Valus' (save for the barriers), not that Barba is Beta Valus themselves.

[@psywarveteran]

Great work as always.

[@lincolnlog5977]

My favorite unused colossus is Yeti. The idea of a colossus in snow sounds amazing.

[@rickgs9363]

And the jampack demo?

[@donald984]

Wouldnt it be funny if team ico just randomly released all the scrapped collosus

[@andrewhoward892]

Question for anyone. The SOTC wiki talks about how Sluice is the right size to have possibly fit into the oasis like area before being put into Kuromori's cave. Anyone buying that? I actually do since it makes sense for the development team to reuse some assets if it helped the final product look better. Plus, it could help explain Dormin's "Tail trapped within a pail, deep within the forest" comment when describing Kuromori. Kuromori's arena isn't in a forest in the final game, but perhaps it once was? That could explain the cave and oasis area, maybe they were originally Yamori A's before he got cut...what do you all think?

[@Scrubermensch]

I actually buy that kuromori actually lived in E5 or in the chasm in the forest before Pelagia, those are the only forests in the game and in one of Nico DVDs there's this one small clip of wander hiding his mouth(like he does when attacked by Kuromori's poisonous gas) while riding Agro in the E5 forest. It's just a theory but I believe in it

[@shotgunmasterQL]

Question, where did Yamori A come from? I have tried to keep up with the beta content, but I have never heard of Yamori A (or at least in a way that it would have stuck), but now there's a picture of a whole model in the wiki, and its displayed in this video.

[@Scrubermensch]

Ps3 version datamining, for some reason those codes were not on the ps2 final version but strangely enough they are on ps3 and on previous versions as the opm demo for example

[@shotgunmasterQL]

@@Scrubermensch Really? There's a whole ass new beta colossi model just hanging in the PS3 remaster files, and even from a colossi that we never (barely) knew the existence of? We have few screenshots of Griffin and Saru, probably the least complete/integrated ones from the known beta colossi, but Yamori A just happens to hang around the PS3 version files? That's just really weird, and I find it even more odd that Nomad hasn't made even a brief video for example, going through some general stuff about the remaster data mining. I was always curious to see what the PS3 remaster could hold, as I know sometimes the content can weirdly change a bit, but I would have never expected there to be a beta colossi model. Didn't they even use the PAL PS2 release as the basis for the remaster (considering the couple of fixes in the game)? So they wouldn't even have started working from an older build or something. How recent is the PS3 remaster data mining thing?

[@Scrubermensch]

@@shotgunmasterQL there's a whole section on his blog man, hold up I'll get you the link.

[@shotgunmasterQL]

@@Scrubermensch Has his blog changed? I thought I checked it recently when this whole SotC E3 beta leak happened, but I think the most recent posts were from 2018?

[@Scrubermensch]

@@shotgunmasterQL the datamining from the ps3 version dates back to the year it was launched on ps3, look in 2011 posts and you'll see stuff about it. Also also I tried to find it myself but I'm kinda busy lmao sorry

[@Nickzstuff]

hmmm honestly seems legit. I think the idea of a second "gecko" seems less tantalizing than other theories but it holds the most water

[@Scrubermensch]

More info about Yamori, please!!!

[@brayan_lopes]

In my opinion, in the later stages of the game, it was supposed to have 20 colossi and not 24. Why? Because only 4 colossus have images of them in a later stage of the game. Roc has even a video. Phoenix, Sirius and Devil all appear in images where Wander is in the Redhair beta. This means they were present in the game untill very late into the development. Worm and spider only appear in pictures with Blue vest Wander. They are never with Redhair Wander. Griffin doesnt even appear close to Wander and Monkey doesn't even have a scenario. And you may ask: "If this is true, then why the trailers show 24 statues?" Well, the trailers show Blue vest Wander too. The thing is, they used old images of the game in the trailers. In some of the trailers, Gaius lives in the desert. Sometimes, Gaius is shown both in his normal arena and in the desert in the same trailer.

[@taizarack9670]

I NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT THAT, THATS REALLY INTRESTING! (sorry i had caps lock on)

[@holyboy1]

Good observation. Can someone that really knows what they're talking about, confirm? lol

[@dragstra8448]

Slight problem with this. Yamori A apparently has a modern sigil in the sheets, along with Roc and Phoenix, implying it was one of the last cut. Barba and Argus were also made to replace cut colossi, so even if they didn't intend to have Spider, Worm, Griffin or Saru and completed the 5 beta colossi left they would have had 19 colossi as Barba and Argus would be replaced by beta colossi. Also, here's a quote from Ueda himself in the artbook: "...I cut it down to 24, half the original number...We might’ve been able to get 24 done within the development period, but it would have been difficult to implement them while maintaining their quality, so we settled on the present 16".

[@lorduncon6869]

That would be a nice theory, but we do know Worm and Spider made it into the Red Hair Beta since they've got idol textures.

[@brayan_lopes]

@@lorduncon6869 Did anyone find beta idols in the game files? I knew about the worm because its old but I have never seen spider's one.

[@mr.monkecolossus444]

3:42 that didnt age well

[@rickalbuquerque595]

Wait, if the B3 texture still exists in the OPM demo, does that mean you can still visit the B3 arena in that version of the game?

[@mrroblinx]

no, it's the updated B3 unfortunately

[@rickalbuquerque595]

@@mrroblinx Then how was the picture of the old B3 (shown in the video) taken? Isn't that a picture of a portion of the terrain?

[@mrroblinx]

@@rickalbuquerque595 it's a texture for low resolution models, there's a lot of those and they sometimes show earlier versions of that particular area, as the developers didn't update them that often

[@rickalbuquerque595]

@@mrroblinx So, in other words, that was a picture of all of the low resolution models that existed in that part of the map in the OPM demo?

[@luckyducky7819]

I know they made a remaster for it, but they should really make a Shadow of the Colossus: Final Mix thing where they add the unused colossus into the game. I think that'd be neat.

[@msyxsu]

take a look to Tribute of Shadow of the colossus and Beyond the Forbidden Lands

[@luckyducky7819]

@@msyxsu Thanks for telling me about these! I'd rather an official remake, but this is a very close second. Any word on a Shadow of the Colossus sequel?

[@msyxsu]

@@luckyducky7819 no.

[@legolasdf1]

I think thats what Ueda was planning dude, but probably got shafted by higher-ups not wanting to spend more money, and just port it to ps3 as it was, so Ueda just left the colossi and their unused arenas lying dormant on the ps3 game code

[@Scrubermensch]

I'd like to see a video comparing old B3 with kuromori's oasis I am not cinvinced ueda reused Yamori's arena as an intro to kuromori

[@CoBud91]

Does Yamori A have three legs on it's right side? There's an additional rock looking bump on that side between his front and hind legs

[@CoBud91]

@@wolfc1138 Oh so that extra bump I'm describing is like an after imagine from his front right leg's animation?

[@CoBud91]

@@wolfc1138 You're right, I totally mistaken the protrusion near his ass for his hind leg. Just when I was thinking about what mechanics he would have with 5 legs too :(

[@EliteY33t2]

so another colossi was discovered oh my fucking god this is amazing, we now know of 25 colossi now makes me wonder what other ones we havent discovered that are out there, im actually a loss of words

[@manatee8702]

Its not that its been discovered. Its just that everyone forgot about because there isn't as much information about it.

[@EliteY33t2]

Still cool tho

[@manatee8702]

@@EliteY33t2 yep

[@dragstra8448]

We technically know of 26 colossi because Buddha (the beta version of Malus) exists. There's also a bunch of unused bosses listed in the sheets, but they're most likely early versions of current colossi that were just renamed later rather than being separate. They are: Buffalo (probably the base for all small colossi), Eel A (probably early Hydrus), Griffin B (probably early Celosia), Kinght 2 (probably an early Gaius that was misspelled), Kubunaga (probably early Roc that was misspelled), Quetzalcoatl (possibly an early Phoenix), Saru 2 (probably early version of Saru/Monkey), Snake 2 (very likely to have become Dirge), Tobiuo (probably early Hydrus, might be the same as Eel A), and Yeti which we only know the name of.

[@ragnarokstravius2074]

@@dragstra8448 Couldn't "Yeti" be related to "Monkey"? When I think of an Yeti, I think ofa creature with white fur, much like Monkey.

[@holyboy1]

Ok, so Roc living at B3 was recently debunked but how come the cut map square in B3 matches the Roc in the books art image? The cut map square is still fitting into B3 though.

[@KrateKarrot]

It doesnt match very well at all. Roc is confirmed to be at D6

[@holyboy1]

@@KrateKarrot I meant the lair matching with Roc, not the location itself.

[@holyboy1]

​@@KrateKarrot Supposing that deleted lair doesn't belong to the Roc, I have a theory that I have wrote on the "Roc location confirmed'' video.

[@lorduncon6869]

@@holyboy1 The lair doesn't actually match Roc, though. That's just pareidolia.

[@holyboy1]

@@lorduncon6869 Ah ok. It will be cool when Nomad updates his blog as it will be absolute (I know it's now currently wrong because of the new discovery of Roc at D6). Thanks for the explanation.

[@holyboy1]

I can't keep up with everything that we do and don't know, I'm simply Wander-ing around (sorry lol), but seeing as some colossus were scrapped in favour of other and similar colossus and/or with reused assets, is it a possible theory that Worm could have ended up being Dirge or Phalanx? Did Worm ever co-exist with any of these Colossus? Seeing as Worm was in a desert and shares the same/similar move, burrowing underground like Dirge, and Phalanx. Argus always reminded me of an ape or gorilla (and climbs on his entrance), which makes me wonder if he replaced Monkey? Sirius is the least favourite unused colossi of mine because it seemed too similar to Celosia, and Cenobia. The other unused colossus are far more interesting. So yeah, we kind of did get some of the unused colossus in other forms. I think if we were to have all the unused colossus with the ones we got, there would of had to of been some big changes in the way we will never know because of the above. I think the fans would of preferred having everything as we know it, even if they were very similar and with some of the same assets and strategies. Basically an uncut version of everything and not a final product so-to-speak.

[@takezokimura2571]

I don't think Monkey became Argus. Their only similarity is their monkey theme and the fact that Argus climbs his cliff. But Monkey used the stalactites of his caves to move around and his body structure is far too different. Also, Argus is reffered as "Minotaur C" in the data files, similarly to other colossus like Valus and Barba (Minotaur B and C, respectively). If Argus were an alternate design or evolution he would be named "Saru_B" or something similar. Even Gaius, despite being humanoid, is named differently from Valus, since his dev name is "The Knight". He also has a different strategy, you have to get to higher ground to reach Argus, while you had to drop Monkey from the roof. As for Worm, it is definitively not prototype Dirge or Phalanx. The concept arts states that they used a regular snake design as base for Dirge, and there were already designs for Phalanx. These sketches are old, because they depict a horned Wander/boy, which means they belong to the Nico stage, and Worm was developed when Wander was already created. epiloguethosewhoremain288150557.files.wordpress.com/2020/12/191.jpg?w=797 In fact, prototype Phalanx already appears in Nico footage, which is one of the earliest we have: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fojJmXRsbqitaKc kzbin.info/www/bejne/fojJmXRsbqitaKc

[@holyboy1]

@@takezokimura2571 Right!!!

[@btab2772]

@@takezokimura2571 plus worm has been confirmed to be stationary throughout the battle. In fact, worm seems to be more like a flower colossus than a worm colossus

[@OskaGabriel20]

I didn't even know about this game after a long time

[@Rodclutcher]

I absolutely love the sotc community.

[@numnutsforever4115]

Has anyone ever gone into 14’s little den it starts the fight in front of? I’ve been curious about this lately.

[@KrateKarrot]

Yeah it doesn't lead anywhere

[@dlm0739]

Let them come. There is still one dwarf yet in Yamori A who still draws breath.

[@thomasurban1353]

Why has the community ignored Yamori_A for so long? Kuromori's file name is Yamori_B, you'd think that would have raised more eyebrows into discovering more about the missing A variant. Know it raised my interest for a while. Was so much already known about it that it, from Ueda's interview, that it was ignored for pursuit of the other beta colossi?

[@pikapat321]

it was initially thought to be nothing more then a beta Kuromori from my understanding on top of being less interesting then other colossi

[@btab2772]

@@pikapat321 I remember when people used to think the old model of Kuromori was yamori c, we now know that yamori c is nonexistent ;)

[@KrateKarrot]

It only ever had 1 image released of it, and it just showed the colossus in a white void and a lot of people just thought it was a beta version of Yamori_B. Not many people were interested until it was discovered to be a seperate, unused colossus that actually got pretty far into development and had it's arena implemented into the world map.

[@leandromadeireira8840]

Here we go again

[@AirProGames99]

Looking back at the early stages of development now, it really makes you wish the added the other missing colossi, even if it made the game longer

[@finbar5421]

How is it known that saru and griffin were never implemented into the map?

[@pudindipreda3049]

As said in the video, Saru and Griffin had no placement on the map. Meaning they didn't survived development long enough for their arenas to be actually placed anywhere. Not only that, but there's almost no records of them on the PS3 data sheets, which lists many different textures, sound effects and animations for all the other scrapped colossi

[@pudindipreda3049]

Their arenas were simply test arenas, just like everyone else's during the beginning of the game's development

[@cralo2569]

also saru is never seen outside of the black void shown in his images, meaning those could've been him inside a program showcasing his model.

[@pudindipreda3049]

@@cralo2569 one of his images was actually taken from his Test Arena "Cave". You can kinda see a little bit of the sky on the far right corner of the image. Why is it all just black, who knows

[@holyboy1]

@@pudindipreda3049 Can the data sheets also been found on the original PS2 version?

[@РусскиеВидеоигры]

Chip data? What chip data?

[@13lood13ath]

Is there a map somewhere that shows where all the cut/unused/hidden content is or should be? (discarded colossi, the dam, etc.)

[@takezokimura2571]

Note: Sluice is synonymous with "Dam". Not saying it is Pikol's Dam, but it is likely what is in the left side of the quadrant

[@gentleearthquake3350]

👏👏👏

[@soliduscaride4385]

Holy Crab!

[@edsu73]

What is OPM?

[@teamstage0987]

OPM stands for Official PlayStation Magazine :)

[@edsu73]

@@teamstage0987 Thanks🫡

[@F1nicky]

so goddamn cool

[@guplus8380]

Oi cara tudo bem vin pela Saturno na área e um canal da lá ou pra ele

[@walterluna1919]

You all are taking Nomad's place

[@Kai_Mercer]

Nah nomad will always be legendary

[@Foxtro]

Dude see this channel closely nomad is a member of team 0

[@Mote.]

👍🏻

[@relm6493]

There should be a hashtag like #completeshadowofthecolossus to get sony's and bluepoints attention

[@ricksulistyo]

#releasethecollosi