Shadow of the Erdtree Review - A Poor Followup

Shadow of the Erdtree repeats many of Elden Ring's mistakes, with few improvements.
My Elden Ring Critique: • Elden Ring Critique

[@dietrichrache1975]

I like how people assume that even the lowest, smallest level of criticism of this DLC is "bait". The brain rot is real.

[@dytn959]

Considering the title and thumbnail it is bait lol

[@Tychonious]

yeah lets use the new buzzword so i seem like im relevenant

[@timlwry]

​@@dytn959how exactly is it clickbait?

[@mightguy3118]

That applies to anything popular with hype nowadays. Whether it's a game, a movie, a TV show. If you give even the smallest amount of actual valid criticism they'll call it bait and act toxic ASF just because you personally don't like it 💀

[@mightguy3118]

​@@timlwryHe means bait as in the video creator just saying that to make people mad and attract attention

[@TheUnseenKrab]

My main problem is the lack of good loot from exploring.

[@brandonman1315]

U can’t be serious

[@EndersupremE]

It's 10x better than base game

[@hayabusa09]

What did you want?

[@juanmhdzg725]

​@@hayabusa09a fantasy traveler simulator, with cookbooks 😂 10x better and maybe just one real dungeon.... oh wait...

[@hayabusa09]

@@juanmhdzg725 Sorry this was directed at the original poster. I don't have a clue what you mean.

[@rachidbadini7056]

I love fromsoft games, but ER's biggest problem for me is that it gives you so many fun tools to play, but as soon as you actually want to start using them, the boss makes you shift to a nohit game mode. You are simply not incentivized to play like you are in an rpg, like you have build variety and fun diverse spells to cast, no, the game encourages you to put yourself in the shoes of a nohit runner, especially in the DLC. The amount of time I decided to use a cool incantation just to realize that the boss will punish me severely... The error margins are simply not permissive enough to encourage you to play otherwise. You either summon mimic, wear a shield, cheese him, and therefore trivialize the boss, or you spend hours learning his pattern. There seem to be no in between. I am not fundamentally against this playstyle, Sekiro is an example. But I don't want the game to tease me with all those tools just to revert back to learn how to dance with the boss.

[@AntiSocialismo50]

I thought the same way, but the spirits summons fix that

[@oldensad5541]

​@@AntiSocialismo50they don't actually. Well, obviously if you feel like it, good for you, nothing bad, but they change AI behavior, and boss act more random, and sometimes you have no idea how you defeat him, what is his behavior etc. For some people it's kinda deal breaker. You can use them, sure, it will help you a lot, but you didn't feel like you defeated unique specific boss, and they start to blend with each other near the end. Again - if you like it, it's good, fine and beautiful. I don't want to be mistaken for one of those "git gut" cadavers, just sharing perspective 😂

[@skinnytimmy1]

Yea, all the spells look awesome when ENEMIES use them, but when I use them it's a fucking baby toddler version of it

[@TheUnseenKrab]

^This too is my problem

[@sweetbabyrayso5262]

@@oldensad5541 "you didnt feel like you defeated unique specific boss" already means youre putting summoners and non summoners into a group and suggesting they are playing incorrectly. because they dont feel like they defeated a unique boss...

[@doratheshade]

Ya know what's even sadder? What used to be a game about surviving a harsh world and learning how to keep trying is now a game about dick measuring and laughing at the noobs. You can even see it with how many videos there are of people reading the reviews, pretty much disregarding any criticism as "They are just bad". If this is the future of FS games and specially its community then I'm done with it. I'll keep with the soulslike like Lies of P. At least they know a thing or two about QoL features.

[@rangopistacho6928]

the from software community has always been toxic, a lot of gaming cultures are just toxic, if you shit on a game for having a toxic community then your just being rather unfair on the actual game itself, do whatever you want, its your game your choices, if you beat a boss with a shield thats fine its up to you!

[@christianbaker3564]

​@rangopistacho6928 It's because gaming attracts a bunch of chronically online weirdos. The issue with Fromsoft is they deflect legitimate criticism and say it's your fault if you arnet having this 10/10 religious experience. I don't think I've seen any community do that

[@zawarudo8991]

@@rangopistacho6928 the games community has also always been very wholesome, just recently there has been this tug of war between making the games too hard and making them too easy, thus the abomination that is Elden Rings Boss design, infinite stamina with no breaks after attack chains with the speed of Pontiff Sully as the bare minimum vs the easy way out: gimmick items that stunlock a boss, spirit ashes that can solo the game when upgraded, weapons and spells (moonveil/meteorite staff) that are available in the first minutes of gameplay and trivialize half the game, no lvl cap and no down-scaling on password summoned cooperators- the list goes on, really sours the experience seeing where Fromsoft is going. "I don‘t have to fight this boss or overcome it, I just sit at the back far away from em and throw homing rocks while my 24/7 available summon pokes their butt for massive damage, damn this game is so hard and fun!"

[@zawarudo8991]

@@christianbaker3564 feels like a massive influx of larpers who wanna be souls fans, worshipping miazaki in an efford to blend in. Mainstream at it‘s finest.

[@BUKUDI]

P is very good & a very solid first attempt. But didn't hold my attention. Deleted before finishing it out of boredom. Extremely repetitive & linear. After like 30-40 hours of the same thing over and over, you realize its a one trick pony. At least give us Dark Souls III level of explorability. The quality of life & refined world are superb tho, theres no denying that. Hopefully the studios expansion & or sequel give it a bit more depth & complexity

[@oldensad5541]

Is is rude to give you advise? If you put a layer of very quite music or even abstract ambience under your voice, qnd do a little bit fade at the end of audio clips, you will get rid of this "popping" effect in the places you merge two voice clips together :)

[@ludognosis]

Thanks, I'll try it out. Audio quality is something I need to improve on.

[@arisumego]

@@ludognosis in general please do keep going with your reviews, your perspective is sorely needed, especially in regards to miyazaki fromsoft games where basically 99% of the fanbase just glazes them endlessly without acknowledging their clear problems

[@thedoomslayer5863]

​@@arisumegowe are getting more videos of people finally nutting up and admitting that not everything fromsoft craps out is 10/10 masterpieces. They can and very much do fail a lot just like many others and they can and do miss the mark with their games.

[@youcantbeatk7006]

@@thedoomslayer5863 Except for the upteenth-millionth "Dark Souls 2 is Actually BAD!" and "The Second Half of Dark Souls 1 is Actually BAD!" videos. Fromsoft fans literally seek out peer reviewed sources before they speak of criticisms.

[@thedoomslayer5863]

@@youcantbeatk7006 God I hate that thing they all do where they have to say before the video even starts "Elden Ring is a masterpiece and my favorite game of all time but-" like they have to suck it off first and call it the best thing to exist to appease the rabid dogs before they are allowed to even critique one thing about it. Like just say it isn't perfect, the fan boys ain't gonna do shit about it lol

[@dorrianbrooks9408]

Honestly, as a new player, the Fromsoft community's mindset towards Elden Ring is honestly a turn off. I've only ever played and finished Elden Ring, so I'm clearly a newb, but you're not allowed to have any critiques regardless of if you're new or not. The default response is always "get good" no matter how bullshit a boss is. And the constant discourse over what's the "true" way to play and what makes a boss kill honest and blah blah blah is so tiresome and annoying. I have my complaints, but I still did enjoy Elden Ring for the most part, so I plan on trying older games(Dark Souls especially), but the Fromsoft community has definitely solidified itself as one of those fandoms that you're better off not interacting with and should just enjoy the material instead.

[@bloodycrow10]

You will love Bloodborne man

[@shirakenpsyop6843]

@@bloodycrow10 name checks out. Also seconded. Bloodborne is goated.

[@dorrianbrooks9408]

@@bloodycrow10 I actually tried Bloodborne back when I was like 18(Im gonna be 24 in a few weeks), and I never really gave it the time it deserved like I did Elden Ring. The most I did was Father Gascoigne who beat my ass, then dipped at Cleric Beast. I've had my mind set on trying the Dark Souls games, but I've also had a tiny part of me thinking of going back to play it, especially since I really like the Eldritch horror aspects of the game(and I actually have it on my PS4, versus the others I dont have yet).

[@youcantbeatk7006]

@@dorrianbrooks9408 Why say "back when I was like 18(Im gonna be 24 in a few weeks)," when you could've just said "like 5-6 years ago?"

[@michaelwilcox8187]

@bloodycrow10 bloodborne was my first, and it's the absolute best. Awesome pvp.

[@ShivaX51]

You nailed it. I've tried to explain to people my issues with the DLC and to some extent Elden Ring. And the Scadutree Blessings are just terrible. I started playing the DLC with a 2nd character that had finished the base game and my God does hunting Fragments suck. So many map areas are just near empty zones you have to traverse for the sake of traversing them. It's to where you just pull up a wiki and go "is there anything here worth bothering with?" And the answer is almost always "no". Except there will almost always be a Fragment or two there, so you're going there anyway.

[@napolitan271]

10:00 Or do it like in that indie Soulslike game called Sekiro, where the level up items for attack and defense drop from minibosses. I think FromSoftware and Miyazaki know this game exists, right?

[@Idontevenknowman779]

They refused to take ANY of the good mechanics from that game and we know why. They wanted it to be hard for the sake of being hard

[@kinggamereon653]

@@napolitan271 sekiro is harder than SotE except the final boss anyways

[@skinnytimmy1]

Boss rush mode? Nah, we'll just put the same bosses in the open world. Pause button? Nah. Better parry system? Nah. Animation canceling for the player? Nah. The speed and aggression of the bosses? Yes

[@RipwolfLeumas]

@@Idontevenknowman779 There is a reason for that. Elden Ring and Sekiro were developed concurrently, so ER still had the Souls style jank, whereas Sekiro was built to be its own independent experience. The engine limitations and the rpg mechanics of ER means that its hard to port 1 to 1 Sekiro's mechanics, but the deflecting hardtear is an attempt to bring it over somewhat. This gives me faith that they have not abandoned Sekiro, in fact they are learning from it, and Miyazaki himself has stated that he has yet to make a game that fully realizes his ideal vision.

[@imustconsultwiththeeldergo5906]

@@kinggamereon653 sekiro is easiest fromsoftware game wtf

[@MrJabbothehut]

90% of the problems this game has results from it being open world. I hope FS never make another open world game as it completely breaks the design philosophy that they have learnt and evolved over the last 15 years. Torrent is there because the game is open world. The bosses are severly overtuned because you have the ability to go and overlevel yourself and have access to a million tools that trivialises them. People who don't get this and defend every aspect of this game are the reason why franchises bite the dust.

[@thomaskopv2366]

You're absolutely right about torrent. Before ER even came out, and we heard that there was gonna be horseback combat I got well excited about how they're gonna implement it for bosses. But it's honestly crap. It's not unique in any good way and is basically always the most boring way to fight a boss.

[@space-slime]

I was so disappointed to see so many recycled bosses in the DLC... How did they think anyone wanted to refight those shit dragons fights again? Or those seed beasts or whatever they're called. I ended up running past 80% of the open world bosses... just no interest there at all.

[@joshualouw9506]

Yeah Id prefer nothing honestly

[@anonymousperson8903]

Ghostflame dragons are quite different to the base game dragons, I enjoyed fighting them. Jagged peak drakes are also slightly different, but I enjoyed them less.

[@based-ys9um]

​@@anonymousperson8903😂😂you people are actually insane.

[@anonymousperson8903]

@@based-ys9um How?

[@based-ys9um]

@@anonymousperson8903 if another company did that you would absolutely say they copy and pasted. Which they absolutely did.

[@stevemichael652]

I agree with you on everything else tho esp the scadutree fragment issue. I’ve been saying this since day 1. Is the boss too hard or do I need more shards ? Can’t really focus on beating the boss when you’re clouded with not even knowing if you’re intended to fight it at that particular time

[@TheQoogle]

You just try the boss , and if it feels to hard go explore a different direction and search for fragments. It's not that complicated.

[@stevemichael652]

@@TheQoogle oh gee golly I didn’t think of that! A lot of bosses seem to hard but the grey area now is not knowing how hard it’s supposed to be versus if I’m under leveled Previous games or even the base game when bosses kicked ur ass at least u knew what to do. In this game u just don’t know if ur banging ur head against the wall for no reason or not

[@mightguy3118]

​@@stevemichael652I see what you mean. malenia is a perfect example of this. Unless you're using broken weapons or have some op level 500 build she's gonna be extremely hard, not because you're under leveled but because she's meant to be that hard. By time you reach her you shouldn't even be under leveled anyway since you're in late game

[@nightwatchmen6353]

That's a You problem. Are you a child? Use you brain

[@_CrimsonBlade]

Scadu thing is so stupid why would higher level player complain about the dlc being to easy you’re at a high level

[@michaelwilcox8187]

So much damage done by enemies I just sent for a good shield, great shield talisman, high endurance and dagger talisman to just block and counter enemies to death. No point in risking rolling through delayed attacks with weird hit boxes

[@shirakenpsyop6843]

Yep, I did the same exact thing. And while I really didn't prefer playing as a shield tank for a couple of the bosses, it sure was more fun than fucking constantly hit trading lol

[@youcantbeatk7006]

So much for player expression and build variety.

[@LeEnnyFace]

Very well put. I was hoping the DLC would make up for mistakes in the base game, but it sometimes just intensifies them. Most maps are TERRIBLY shallow and the smithing stone loot is borderline offensive. So many cheap ambushes that it might have more than all Dark Souls combined. I was looking forward to FS' future up to this DLC, now I'm just hesitant. It's a bit sad, but as you said, there was a pattern leading up to this.

[@kinggamereon653]

No, removing Torrent would not improve the experience in the open world. To begin with Torrent making the open world too safe is not simply an issue of Torrent, it's an issue of the world in general. The world is too large, too open and doesn't have enough enemies to make running past them not an effective tactic. You could easily do at least 90% of the pick up item and run parts of the game without Torrent just as effectively, albeit a little slower. Not only are the enemies slower than Torrent they also tend to be slowed than the player character and eventually lose aggro. Besides some elevators and ladders running past enemies indoors where Torrent is not summonable is also very effective and enables the player to avoid the enemies. This is not only the case in Elden Ring's own legacy dungeóns but also fromsoft's earlier games like dark souls 3. Only place where they somewhat succesfully make the player fight all the enemies is dark souls 2 and look what happened with that one. The running past enemies problem aside the world is just too big and would need to be scaled down severely to be at all engaging to explore without Torrent. Even with Torrent's travel speed you encounter large basically empty areas of the map you really wouldn't want to have to run. This is an issue with the open world, yes but removing Torrent would make it far worse. Also if you wanted to make the open world harder you really also should remove the get flasks back when killing an enemy group mechanic. It trivializes exploration far more imo. As for the enemies in the open world and the field bosses the player is "tricked" to fight. Personally I genocide pretty much all enemies I encounter on my first runthrough of the area anyways. It's nice to get some runes and it's nice to not have to think about the enemies when picking up items as they're all dead. The field bosses are also a good excuse to give the player a lot of runes at once. Alternatively they could buff rune drops for all enemies of the area to compensate but that would incentivize farming the enemies instead of killing them once or twice, beating the field boss and being done with it. Also yeah, Promised Consort Radahn is horribly balanced and the moveset in the second phase is generally overtuned. It took me 205 tries to beat him no blocking, no summons, just a good old anchor, dodgeroll and a dream and while I did kind of have fun the fight definitely made me want to jump off a bridge multiple times. However, I do not think this is a good representation of the dlc's main bosses in general. Fromsoft did fumble their final boss pretty bad here but fights like Bayle, Messmer, Rellana were all fun, learnable and not that difficult. Rellana for example took me 15 tries with the rusted anchor and no buffs other than physick, Messmer took 12 tries with the dragonslayer great katana and no buffs. Bayle took 84 but that was me fighting the boss at scadutree blessing lvl 4 and in the end I felt like I had mastered the fight. As a whole I found the dlc's fights to be mostly stepups from both dark souls 3 and elden ring's base game. Granted I might be a convenient audience as a relatively hard but learnable boss fight is what I play these games for. Sekiro is my favourite out of the bunch too so the faster bosses generally feel nice. But still, it would be interesting if you had expanded on the other bosses and not just used the obvious low hanging fruit of Promised Consort Radahn when critiquing the boss design instead of just saying they have flat arenas and feel too similar. Also flat arenas just generally are good, even in the promised consort fight the slight elevation differences instantly create jank with multiple attacks.

[@JCashBeatz]

he is a fool

[@NightxofxDarkrai]

I fully agree with all of this

[@KD-wc4rs]

I don’t understand the flat arena thing ds3 had only flat arena ?

[@mikeehrmantraut1899]

Imo, having Torrent in a Souls Series into an open world is the biggest mistake by FromSoft it doesn't fit to the genre at all

[@zawarudo8991]

Still feel like torrent is heavily underdeveloped as a mount. There is so much creative stuff ya could do with him but all he is reduced to is the open world cab. His own moves: like a dodge-step without I-frames used to quickly reposition, attacks like a headbutt, charge or hoove kick. Enemy mounts already showed us how diverse their movesets can be, so why are we stuck with running and jumps that get caught midair by every strike. Online functionality with mechanics to make mounted and on foot gameplay both viable. Horse-armor/customization, but then again, From couldn‘t even put proper customization of our own armor sets into the game.

[@tribacioustee2846]

I feel catharsis over how well you expressed these points. I've loved FromSoft ever since the days of Demon's Souls, and I loved Demon's Souls not just because of its action and aesthetics, but for its unbound creativity. Ironic how the games are now too big to fail, for Demon's Souls took as many chances as it did because it believed failure was certain - so they just made games they liked. There are only two fights in this expansion that I felt captured the spirit of the old From - "Jori, Elder Inquisitor" and "the Lamenter". The Lamenter is in a flat arena, but his gimmick forces you to be creative - if your build was defensive and patient like mine, it will die instantly and be overwhelmed. So without any respeccing or changing gear, I changed my style with the tools I had on hand, and recklessly attacked without concern for defence. I took hits but I managed my resources well and I won. Jori, Elder Inquisitor does not test your reflexes but your resourcefulness. He teleports away so you can't cling to him. Him and his summoned backup can threaten you with many projectiles, so you should use the trees and gravestones as cover while you wait them out or get in close. You need to prioritise targets, and you are rewarded for having options that can control multiple enemies at once (but you do not strictly need them). Are either of these bosses 'hard'? Not insufferably, I imagine many prepared veterans beat them first try. But they are different from the norm of their game. They are not just another "Memorise the patterns, wait out the attack and do a quick counterhit". They are not "Hide behind a greatshield and poke them with a rapier or spear". You can play them this way, but they're far from the only way. And that felt great. I need more bosses like that, bosses that play to From's strengths as action RPG devs, and don't just feel like a poor man's character-action game

[@jobbersupreme8720]

Jori is one of the worst boss fights in the entire games and it "capturing the spirit of the old From games" or whatever bullshit you try to spew won't change that

[@tribacioustee2846]

@@jobbersupreme8720 I'd like to hear your argument

[@jobbersupreme8720]

@@tribacioustee2846 Extremely annoying spell spamming boss that combined with his constant summon spam and teleporting makes for an honestly poorly designed boss that is nowhere near in quality to combat encounters in that same DLC like Messmer or Midra

[@tribacioustee2846]

@@jobbersupreme8720 They give you terrain as cover against most of his spells, and he is staggerable when you are close. If he's doing spells up close, that's a blunder and you can backstab him. His teleporting is fair because getting in close on him is so overwhelmingly in your favour as is. I'm sorry he wasn't Rollspam McCombolots, but I think you completely failed to understand my point.

[@jobbersupreme8720]

@@tribacioustee2846 He barely staggers when hitting him and the backstabs are the only safe way to get damage on him. The gravestones can block his projectiles yes but that doesn't matter when he still spams them when you're trying to get close and specially the annoying ground spiral that along with his summons is a pain in the ass (Not to mention that his teleport also does damage) I do understand your point that you prefer Demon's Souls styled gimmick bosses but i completely disagree with that point since said gimmick bosses tend to be mostly poorly designed and unremarkable with a few exceptions

[@thatmemeguy2520]

these days u cant have an opinion on fromsoft games becuase of how many new people elden ring braught in.And they will just glaze the game to death and as someone who has played multiple souls/soulslike.Even i can say elden ring is not the best due to how many lasting flaws the game will have... -later runs become a horseback simulator -90% of the bosses ar not fun to fight and feel like filler and u dont get satisfaction out of it and u just think OMG thank god thats over -to get to dlc u have to pretty much go through the entire map again wich is tedious and obnoxious -torrent being painfully slow on a big map -alot of bosses being reskined Dont get me wrong i enjoyed the game but i dont see myself playing it in the future if more dlc doesnt get announced.And if it doesnt its probably back to dark souls 3,bloodborne and nioh 2

[@joaoluizkfsantos8392]

New players glaze ER about as much as the old ones glaze BB. Some things never change, the future generations will continue glazing their new products while the old timers complain

[@thatmemeguy2520]

@@joaoluizkfsantos8392 not really most people say about BB is that its MID without dlc.And the chalice dungeons suck and i think people only really like it because of its combat and setting and personally myself its not the best game but its damn close and NG+ in bloodborne is actuelly hard

[@stevemichael652]

Fighting enemies in the open world is a very low priority point of the game which is why you have the option to bypass them. Theres really no reason or incentive to fight them other than boredom, rune farming or testing weapons.

[@skinnytimmy1]

All they drop is crafting items and useless gear. If you could craft permanent items, they would actually be worth it.

[@dZ0647]

Okay but you’re saying this as it’s not a flaw when it absolutely is. The OW in base game was empty but fine enough it could be disregarded…the DLC is fckin EMPTY. Just empty open fields. We got duped period, FS fanboys suckin this shit dry doesn’t make it a good game. It’s been like 3 years now…and the game is NOT aging well at all and FS die hards just gonna have to deal. The series will die if they don’t actually improve, and FS diehards can’t save it.

[@laughingman9574]

@@skinnytimmy1 They don't drop weapons or armor? Are weapons and armor not worth it?

[@jafetgabino1691]

@@dZ0647it’s a great open world 😆all the mini bosses to find and all the beautiful environments that hold secrets I wish you saw the world like I did

[@danielegalizzi8562]

So you think that skipping 90% of the game by running past all enemies is the intended way?

[@callsignfatbeard2637]

This game would be a nightmare without a map. Thank god you don’t call the shots.

[@MiguelAviles175]

Imagine trying to teleport to a place You need to go without your map lmao

[@shishkebaba]

lot of people revealing themselves as eldenbabies with this one, go back and play souls and it'll make sense

[@shiroamakusa8075]

@@shishkebaba The Dark Souls maps are much, MUCH smaller.

[@callsignfatbeard2637]

@@shishkebaba not comparable. Those games don’t even approach a small fraction of how big Elden ring is. It needs a map, no question about it.

[@jerq887]

ehhh, idk about a "nightmare" i've been pretty capable remembering my surroundings and where everything is in Dark Souls 3, all i needed was a single picture of the bonfire to help me remember, the only time i had trouble remembering where to go was Bloodborne, as that game didnt even provide you with a picture, just the name of the area If this game did the same, with a list of graces and a picture provided next to it, i'd be fine

[@DUNGSI27]

Your criticism of Elden Rings open world makes no sense to me. An open world this vast without a map & a horse? For an open world as vast as Elden Ring that would be the most tedious thing ever. It seems you just want to throw away the open world & just have one big dungeon instead, like in the Souls games.

[@based-ys9um]

That would be awesome. Hopefully from don't continue in this direction

[@CombinE54]

That would be my dream patch for this game. Remove the open world with a classic metroidvania map... a man can dream.

[@coasteraddict10]

You should try playing the game without the horse, it's really not that bad

[@Thisisthegreatestatofalltime]

@@CombinE54That’s not a patch that’s just a different game at that point

[@ennayanne]

​@@CombinE54I'm hoping someone would make this mod eventually but it's so unlikely

[@StuffAndAlsoThings]

You’re pretty spot on here especially about the map. Finding map fragments in the base game was so lame because nothing was stopping you from heading to them the second you entered the area. In the DLC you have to work towards finding the right path towards them and it makes uncovering the map so much more rewarding

[@israelperez-wn8ib]

The DLC is still Elden Ring, so while yes they improved the map design, weapons exc. people are acting like it’s a full on sequel and as such should have been remarkably different and improved… it’s still Elden Ring, it’s staying true to its base game, while giving us this gigantic expansion to explore…

[@joaoluizkfsantos8392]

For real, the best review IMO is just saying "this is more elden ring, if you didn't like it before, you won't like it now"

[@voidy6836]

it’s pretty much an occurrence for every fromsoft release now, people drop some “niche” take like “guys this thing you like is actually objectively not good because I said so” and then they provide critiques that stand true for not only the base game but for the large majority of fromsoft’s works in general, and so they just come off as elitists trying to drop some hot and nuanced take that proves from has undergone some colossal change in design philosophy that irreversibly damages the genre only to inevitably switch up after a few months/years have passed. The funniest part is that if anyone questions their reasoning they immediately strawman the people critiquing them into people who just absently mindedly glaze fromsoft games and thus try to refute any and all counter-arguments to their points with that. the dlc isn’t perfect by any means ofc, and neither was the base game, but as with every fromsoft release in the past 10 years people are gonna drop things like this that blow it unbelievably out of proportion either for attention, bias, or whatever other reason they have

[@6e756c6c]

To add to the boss design thing: I hink any move that requires a boss become invunrable for several seconds is bad design. I also found using anything other than a blood infused twinblade made the boss fights tedious, so more bad design. My biggest impression from the DLC? Tedium. I have no incentive to replay it.

[@doomslayer8985]

Issues with the DLC 1. Enemies are overtuned to the point they are playing sekiro while we are stuck with Demon Souls gameplay with small QoL over the last years but with less significant improvements (Bloodborne, Sekiro and Lies of P do a much better job than this) 2. Cheese and OP Builds are heavily incentivized because the majority of the bosses are now build checks where a person with unoptimized build will struggle so hard they will hard swap for meta builds which is terrible game design for a mostly PvE singleplayer game making the fights very unsatisfying. 3. Exploration is unrewarding enough, the fact they had to add a crucial item such as the scadutree fragments to "encourage" exploration damages the replay value because collecting the same material for almost 50 times is lazy game design by artificially gatekeeping the players from naturally progressing at their own pace to make the world a huge scadutree checklist (base game handled this matter much better with the crimson tears/sacred tears scarsed around the map but placed very specifically on early/mid/late game areas which makes it natural as players progress through the game) 4. Rewards are terrible (useless cookbooks, tons of smithing stones that are useless because everyone has at least 3 weapons maxed out and tons of resources spared cause they explored the base game map) where replay value is just a collection checklist (scadutree fragments and very specific armours/weapons/ashes, and thats bad cause it really means the majority of things you will find on the open world will be either useless or extremely niche making it bloated. 5. A lot of copy pasted mobs makes the encounters less special and boring real fast, genuinely fromsoft wanted to bloat the game as much as possible because the quantity over quality approach on an expensive market of 60/70usd games will make players feel they the most of their money back the bigger and longer the game is but bloated. My biggest theory is fromsoft realized how going through a niche market (Linear Hard Games) to a wider demographic with open world concept (Longer and Easier) massively makes more profit than all their older games. By dumbing down the games as a whole sacrificing certain aspects of the souls genre makes more money than anything else they produced in the past, which leads me to think they will keep making games of this kind with the direction of this DLC. Hopefully im wrong because i truly wish we had a souls game with Sekiro+Bloodborne combat together it would be perfect (oh wait we have one, its called Lies of P). Ironic how Lies of P was made by a small studio which adresses most issues with Elden Ring. My overall conclusion is the DLC shows how incredibly stagnated the series has become specially with this title (previous games such as Dark Souls are completely fine as they are) but making games such as Bloodborne and sekiro that were developed way before ER have much better combat system and replayability. This is what they thought "Lets make the DLC as big as possible (don't matter how bloated it is) because most people nowadays value videogames over their length rather than the quality itself". The DLC genuinely feels like a one and done experience (if you think about it the dlc has a lot of requirements and on consoles (the market they target the most) you cant duplicate savefiles before the dlc so you have to make your own way to the dlc again for almost 30hrs (because Mohg is unlocked at lategame) and most people recommend to be level 120-150 which again are lategame stats, it all makes sense on that way (how can you make something replayable when the main requirements to get in there are almost finishing the game itself). It's interesting how Zelda TOTK and Elden Ring DLC suffer from nearly the same issues and both franchises started as linear games but became widespread and more popular once they took the open world approach.

[@shiroamakusa8075]

Go back to Ubisoft slop, loser.

[@rosskaske6357]

@@shiroamakusa8075 Braindead fromslop fanboy can't read

[@thearchitectwarrior5409]

Keep on cooking, my guy. While I have some disagreements, you've echoed many of my own issues with Elden Ring and the DLC, especially on map design, fast travel, and boss design. I hope FromSoft (or at least other Souls-likes) take some cues from your critiques.

[@lewis18051]

What issues do you have with map design and fast travel? I’m interested cos it’s not a criticism I’ve heard before

[@thearchitectwarrior5409]

@@lewis18051 Dark Souls 1 was my first Souls-like, so I have a fondness for a lack of fast travel and mystery in world traversal. I agree with Merlin that Elden Ring's map gives too much information to the player. I also dislike fast travel because I think I promotes empty world design that's not interesting to explore, and fast travel itself feels boring to use as it skips what could be interesting gameplay moments in the first place. I don't think fast travel should be removed completely, but I do think there should be less fast travel points than how many there are in Elden Ring and the DLC. Edit: I also like worlds that can be fully traversed without using fast travel, and the DLC has several areas that are one way trips on foot. You have to use fast travel to leave multiple areas and that's just not interesting to me. Totally a personal opinion, though.

[@swan-cloud]

based doom bow pfp

[@shishkebaba]

​@@lewis18051good interconnected map with a few save points makes travel feel meaningful by making going into unknown areas tense. If you know you can't just warp back to safety everything has more weight. So those shortcuts back to firelink feel really mind blowing when you discover them

[@laughingman9574]

@@thearchitectwarrior5409 Every Souls game has areas that you must fast travel from.

[@jackalx2154]

I hope Fromsoftware makes smaller, more focused and tightly designed games in the future like Sekiro, Bloodborne and the Dark Souls series. A lot of the problems in ER and SotE stem from it's size. The visuals and level design are amazing but the open world is empty and the repetitive, reused enemies and bosses is just terrible. I honestly feel ER and SotE would be so much better if they were about half the size or just branching paths of small areas and Legacy Dungeons. I don't feel the size and expanse of the game is worth the diminished quality and lack of polish.

[@laughingman9574]

So, Souls games were not reusing anything? DS1 and DS2 are THE WORST at it. And I love From games since DeS launch. Taking scale in mind, those 2 games reused WAY more than ER did. So, give good example of not doing it. EVERY Souls game does it, EVERY game does it. The difference is, ER base game has about 150 unique enemies, so give me an example of someone doing it better.

[@jackalx2154]

@@laughingman9574 I'm obviously not saying that games should have no reuse at all. Obviously I don't expect every enemy I come across in a game to be completely unique. That's just asinine and deliberately taking my argument in bad faith. Obviously enemy and boss reuse is expected, but it can still be done poorly, excessively and just for the sake of filling space, which is bad game design. I am equally as critical of Fromsofts previous games and don't condone the terrible and poor reuse of enemies and bosses in those games or any other game either. Ideally every area should have a unique suite of enemies that fill it with tasteful reuse of enemies from previous areas where appropriate. A game should not be larger than the content it can offer, otherwise the content will feel repetitive or spread thin. Again, the terrible reuse of enemies and bosses in ER and SotE isn't because Fromsoftware are bad at making games. These issues stem from the games being too big for the content they can offer. ER and SotE aren't the biggest games, but if Fromsoftware struggles to properly develop games of this size then I would rather they make smaller games of a manageable size for them or split their larger projects up into multiple DLC's or expansions. If ER and SotE were smaller, or made up of multiple DLC's or expansions, then these issues would not exist. It's important to point out poor game design decisions so that they are recognised and not repeated.

[@raiden3013]

instead of small games. i would prefer they keep games large like elden ring but take extra development time to jam pact them with stuff and or make what they have mor quality. like the dlc may be bad with how open and empty it is but the what they do have like the caves and catacombs were some quality experiences that the base game lacked.

[@rogalcorn734]

​@@raiden3013"Take extra development time.... ". While I understand where you're coming from, ER already took 6 yrs to make, and SOTE took 2. We are entering an age where games are taking more and more time to develop. And that's if they plan to release in a complete and playable state. I personally wouldn't be opposed to them making a large, quality game. But If they make another massive game, that's more dense and fleshed out, it would release in a decade.

[@L-or3vr]

​@@rogalcorn734shadow of the erdtree probably took even more years since the concepts / history were already a thing during the base game development

[@sasaki999pro]

Oh WOW! I thought I recognized your voice, your OG Elden Ring critique was the only one I actually respected, it didnt feel like the complaints of a salty entitled scrub, or a sweaty Fromsoft brand fanboy, but someone who had a keen eye for the overlooked little details that foretell the downfall of this subgenre. I just want to say, you absolutely nailed it, Fromsoft games have become ALL spectacle and no substance. While I did enjoy the DLC to an extent, as it does stand above the quality of the *current* industry standard, I don't think that warrants turning a blind eye to the blatant drop in quality from previous games and the almost completely homogenized and uninspired gameplay formula. I never felt my eyes be more molested by total screen pollution in one of these games before this DLC, the overly embellished particle effects and jerky camera movements litter EVERY action that every boss takes. Making the boss movesets more "cinematic" which becomes jarringly disproportionate to the players list of viable actions, yes we have flashy moves of our own, but the amount of commitment time these moves require while having little to no survivability beyond the occassional I-Frame or Hyper Armor properties(of which will quickly get overtaxed by the bosses breakneck aggressive attack pacing) means we wind up incentivized into doing the same safe repetitive action again and again and again. This contradicts the attempts at making fights more of a spectacle because these "immersive and dynamic" boss move sets are put into immediate contrast with the transparently artificial video game character that they're pitted against. This ironically makes bosses LESS cinematic than previous titles because of the ludonarrative dissonance, where as before Souls games actually had quite abit of narrative and gameplay harmony. (Sorry for the text wall, I just want to say thanks for being 100% genuine with your review)

[@gingeroverseer9302]

Hundred percent this. I solod Malenia and thought I'd put so many points into faith I'll use some of my offensive incantations. Nope. I quickly learned to just.. lock in. And also to cheese her healing punishment by using great heal instead of flask because the ai doesn't input read healing incantations. Did I find a clever solution or did I accidentally break Fromsoftwares punishment design? I'm sick of these fights no longer feeling fun.

[@Idontevenknowman779]

For real though. Bloodborne combat sequences and bosses felt like legit Skirmishes and wars of attrition where you and the boss are LITERALLY beating each other up going blow for blow. Sekiro is the crazy rythm game with all this flair that feels like a legitimate sword fight. And Dark Souls 3 is the “Souls Dance” perfected. Everything is sight readable. Flow is there. Dodge and hit dodge and hit, run if there is a need for it

[@sasaki999pro]

@@Idontevenknowman779 Yeah you know, I think after reading your comment I understand the main issue with Elden Ring. Elden Ring has an _Identity Problem._ (Which might ironically be the most thematically harmonious element the game has) Every feature and mechanic seems to exist in contradiction with itself. It wants you to have Breath of the Wild caliber freedom, but it also wants to have arbitrary progression blocks and restrictions. It wants you to have a challenge, but simultaneously allows you to one shot nearly any boss in a single attack. It wants you to experiment with all your tools, but punishes you by making them inconsistently finite and situational. It wants to have modern quality of life features, yet gates them behind draconic souls brand obfuscation. It wants to have multiplayer balance while maintaining a single player power fantasy It wants to have spectacle rich fights but punishes the player for indulging in the flashiest abilities. It wants you to piece together the story, but also makes half hearted attempts at pointing you towards key details that provide important context required to understand the narrative. It wants to portray its characters in a more personal and meaningful manner, but actively denies them any interactions with other NPC's that might compliment or challenge their perspective. It wants to be a melting pot of previous souls mechanics (Bloodborne Rally, Sekiro Posture, Dark Souls Multiplayer) but neglects the nuances that made those features such core elements of their respective titles (No Posture meter, no covenants, and no Great Runes in NG+) It wants you to treat torrent like an extension of yourself, but provides absolutely zero means of actually upgrading him. (beyond the DLC which is also barely a half measure) It wanted to have a massive jaw dropping open world valleys, and yet proceeded to populate it with common junk and generic enemy encounters. Elden Ring is a fine example of why "Bigger" is not always better, and that Fromsoft should stick to a more focused and streamlined design document for their projects going forward.

[@Idontevenknowman779]

@@sasaki999pro AGREED. You should make a KZbin video about this. very well put

[@nestroit5010]

basically all boss fights are the same now due to the hyper agressive, spammy behaviour combined with tracking, input reading etc. - poor design choices. you got all the flashy new weapons and ashes of war and yet almost none are viable because you have zero hyperarmor for most. all of that makes the combat repeptitve and boring

[@anonymousperson8903]

How is Midra similar to Rellana, and how is she simliar to Commander Gaius, and how is he similiar to Messmer, and how is he similar to Scadutree Avatar, and how is it similar to Bayle?

[@Stanzbey69]

@@anonymousperson8903you expected an elden ring hater to be intelligent and have valid arguments. That’s ur first mistake.

[@shirakenpsyop6843]

​@@anonymousperson8903 Oh that's easy. They all have the same basic design. Delayed attacks, AoEs, unrelenting combos, ranged attacks, high speed with unlimited endurance. Maybe it's not as good to say the bosses themselves are the same, but the way you play them are all pretty much the same, which is just tiresome. DS3 has arguably the best overall boss quality of their games. One of the hardest bosses (Nameless King) had a strong gameplay identity because he was the only boss that had a wealth of delayed attacks. Pontiff had his clone. Friede had her invisibility (among other things). Abyss Watchers had...each other. Dancer was *the one* known for her long string of combos with perfectly tuned timings...a lot of these bosses had their own idenitites. The biggest delineations between ER bosses are their individual moves and aesthetics. You can put Rellana on a boar, or make her a dragon, or have summonable snakes. But at the end of the day, they all have the same core elements. Although...I will give Bayle credit, but only if you summon the dude because hearing "CURSE YOU BAAAYLE" at the start of each try got me so pumped and did make that fight extremely memorable lol.

[@anonymousperson8903]

@@shirakenpsyop6843 "They all have the same basic design. Delayed attacks, AoEs, unrelenting combos, ranged attacks, high speed with unlimited endurance. " Except this isn't true. Have you fought Scadutree Avatar, Midra or Romina? These are very old-school bosses with lots of well-defined short combos with ample punish windows after them...The mini-bosses in the DLC like the Death Knights or the Red Bears are also old-school DS3 like bosses.

[@Thisisthegreatestatofalltime]

@@shirakenpsyop6843Every ds3 boss is also pretty similar but that’s more of an issue with rolling being the best choice for more than like 90% of attacks. Also r2s in ds3 feel so awful and most magic that isn’t basic isn’t good in that game either, slower actions were a bit more viable though.

[@EmeralBookwise]

Scadutree fragments are less comparable to rune level, and more comparable to smithing stones, which in the base game are very much something players have to explore the world to acquire and depending on how far a player is in the game different tiers of smithing stone will be in limited supply, restricting how many different weapons can be fully upgraded. If anything, the Scadutree fragments are a better implementation of weapon progression because it applies becuase you no longer have to upgrade each different weapon you might want to use or just experiment with individually. This sense of progression continuing on from where the base game left off is something no previous FromSoft game has been able to replicate. They were always just new end game zones with a flat difficulty curve, but that was more or less okay for those more linear games. Scrapping the blessing system and just scaling everything the same, wouldn't really work for Elden Ring anymore. Without a system for progression there would be no more ability to when finding one particular challenge to difficult, to instead go off and explore in a different direction so that the player can come back stronger. Overall, Shadow of the Erdtree has been like getting to play the base game for the first time all over again. Really, whether or not someone enjoys the DLC is going to be very much dependent ant on how much they enjoyed the base game in the first place, and that's how it should be. DLC's aren't the place to "fix" things, that's what sequels are for. DLCs are for people that already enjoy the base game and want more of it. The simple fact of the matter is that despite its shared DNA, Elden Ring isn't Dark Souls. It's Elden Ring, and an open world games just functions differently in ways that can't be directly corelated to games with more restrictive world design. That doesn't make one genre better than the other, just different. If the only thing a person likes about Elden Ring is the legacy dungeons because of how those portions of the game are most like Dark Souls, that doesn't mean the rest of Elden Ring is bloated or uninspired, it just means that person has different preferences in the type of gameplay they are looking for. ... Also, saying that the two Great Red Bears are just reskinned runebears is massively underrepresenting just how much their move sets have been expanded.

[@kcold3277]

"Pretending like these are different boss encounters is an insult to my intelligence and time?" *proceeds to show footage of the red bear using attacks that Rune bears never did.* You did that to yourself dude.

[@dZ0647]

Proceeds to attempt to say a copy pasted base game mob with a different color palette is unique and different bc durr moved one way different dur….lmao…let me guess the ghost flame dragons are unique too right bc it’s black flame? 4x over? Give me a break already, you weirdos think you love Elden ring but no pun intended you are tarnishing it by refusing criticism and defending everything they’ve done as great. The shit is bad, copy pasted empty space. Shitty TRASH fckin dlc lore aside from Messmer and Bayle, nothing closed. wtf is up with Melina and ranni and that eye stuff? So Godwyn was just a prop to start the story and nothing actually that important? wtf happened to Marika how she get locked up? Lmao, this is a MASSIVE, MASSIVE mess from soft fail. The standard was not held, and we got a piece of shit typical AAA game treatment.

[@Ravielsk]

I feel the real issue here is that the open world design is simply incompatible with the souls formula. An open world is mainly about getting to interact with the world and its inhabitants, to learn about them and to immerse yourself in the setting. Normally the world would be used to get space for quests and NPCs. The reward for exploring would be a cool little village with a sidequest or a interesting story beat. But that fundamentally goes against the basic idea of the Souls formula where the world is supposed to be dead or dying with the player just sort not even really saving it. You cannot really have little villages and story beats when the game is barely allowed to have any NPCs or story(real story, not obscure one sentence references on items you may or may not find). As a result the game designers are sort of pushed into hyper focusing on combat in a game that never had that much of a complex combat system to begin with. Thus we get Scadutree fragments and overtuned bosses as there is very little that can be done with this combat system besides inflating and deflating numbers.

[@lexiferenczy9695]

But Elden Ring ist not Dark Souls and the world isn't even supposed to be that dead according to the lore implications but still ended up that way, because Fromsoft seems so stuck in their Dark Souls mindset. The undead Curse doesn't even exist in Elden Ring yet there we have everyone being a zombie again. I honestly don't understand why they couldn't have some more NPCs and Villages like in other open world games. Nothing too crazy, but maybe something? Anything? Because they have everything they need: A character creator, animations that can be shared by all NPCs etc. The only real cost would have been to pay a bit more to voice actors. But no, everything has to be dead AGAIN and the only NPCs we meet end up dying a bit later anyways...

[@Apophes]

​@@lexiferenczy9695Elden ring is Dark souls. Just look at evolution from ds1 to ds3, then add ER to it and anyone woud say, that ER Is ds4 or open world dark souls. And its funny since we have example of REAL fromsoftware New IP, such as bloodborne and sekiro. Comoares to them, elden ring is barely a New IP and more like next evolution of dark souls, but without good combat Improvements

[@lexiferenczy9695]

​@@Apophes Yes, it ended up being very much like Dark Souls. But that's what I am criticising, because it's still meant to be a new IP since it isn't called Dark Souls and also has different themes (even though they borrowed very much) and I don't see why they couldn't just take the great combat and make everything else new. But they couldn't even let go of this whole "undead are walking" theme and so it's more similar to Dark Souls than it would have needed to be. Imo an open world without quite a bit of NPCs doesn't really make sense and it doesn't portray much level of scale when most people are dead or just missing, they should've leant a bit more toward story and less on combat.

[@Apophes]

@@lexiferenczy9695 they could have use combat mechanixa form bb, sekiro combat and ulgrade mechanics, with them. You can add even 50x combo, 300k hp boss. It still wouldnt be terrible since you acually fighting and dont waiting for your turn.

[@joesheridan9451]

Said it perfectly dude

[@ReaverZiel]

Great analysis dude, I've always felt weird about elden ring, been a fan of fromsoft games and soullikes in general ever since dark souls 1 but for whatever reason i just couldn't get the praise everyone was giving to elden ring, there was something off with the game for me since the beginning and seeing everyone loving it so much and claiming it's the best fromsoft game ever in the history of forever made me feel like I was crazy or something, I just couldn't put into words all my problems with the game but you just did it for me in the most amazing way possible, you really deserve way more recognition. Keep up the good work

[@HollowKnight21]

Yep. YOu can always play other games now. FromSoft doesn't need to pander to "huhuhuhuhuhu please go back to dark souls" crowd when Elden Ring and its DLC are by the far the most commercially successful and critically acclaim things that I have done.

[@Idontevenknowman779]

@@HollowKnight21ER pretty mid tho ngl. You know Miyazaki himself doesn’t even get the appeal for ER lol? He didn’t even think it would be popular. In truth it just came out at the right time and open world dark souls just sounded kinda cool so people checked it out.

[@ReaverZiel]

@@HollowKnight21 being mainstream and successful don't always mean the game is good. Personally I believe dark souls 1 and sekiro are the best fromsoft games (never played bloodborne because I'm a PC gamer). And pander is a curious choice of word considering elden ring is the exception in fromsoft catalog, all the other games are niche so if anything fromsoft is "pandering" to a more casual audience with ER

[@HollowKnight21]

@@ReaverZiel "Casual audience" yet is the vets crying about overtuned bosses and unfair movesets.

[@gv2212]

​@@HollowKnight21Yeah because the casual audiences just search the most op build use mimic and skip the boss.

[@lcoyle1998]

I could not disagree more about the map design. The idea that there are areas only flowing into eachother if you go down the most random holes in the wall is stupid and pointlessly unclear. Especially when 99% of those exact same scenarios lead to either nothing at all or pointless upgrade materials or cookbooks...

[@AaryonTeragon]

I see it from the experience of me literally 100% every surrounding area, blind, and missing a map because I didn't go to a completely optional tunnel. This could have happened twice, but I refused to keep progressing until I found the other map. If you can legit complete 2 MAIN areas before finding the map, in an OPTIONAL zone, the map loses all of its value. It made it easier to find 2 secrets, that were indeed useless materials, and that was about it. Edit: yes, it could have happened twice, which means you can go blind for almost 50% of the dlc, if you don't visit optional areas. That's just bad design.

[@suuujuuus]

Especially the difficulty topic. I feel like with all the new people getting into these games, the false selling point of their key feature being absurd diffculty is pushed in even further - resulting in elitism, lack of empathy & understanding for people that struggle. Dark Souls never touched me because of the difficulty. Yeah, the rough and hostile world is one of its features for me, however the selling point is a learning curve, not regarding single enemies, but the whole game. That it didnt give you an op tool with which you now can defeat previously tough enemies (as it does in ER), but it made you the tool itself. The map also defeats much of the underlying mystery for me. I really liked Ds2 world, because it was so absurd, so seemingly impossible but still there. And every Ds game carried that kind of mystery for me.

[@SomeDudesPlay]

I 100% agree with the Scadu fragments. It's ENTIRELY artificial, and no one wants to admit it. Which is what the From fans have always said was why they like Souls games, 'Tough but fair.' like OG Mega Man or Ghosts 'n Goblins. "Oh, boss too tough? I know you have his moveset down mostly, but you still die to two hits due to silly mistakes we all make? Oh well, go get a McGuffin and now it's okay, you don't die and your skills will carry you now!" I mean, even RL1 challenge runs through SoTE use Skibidibop upgrades. Seems kind of stupid that a challenge run in where you don't upgrade your power...You upgrade your power. Artificial. Even challenge runners are admitting it's unfun and tedious. Which is cool, just admit that the game can't challenge you within the confines of it's own rules anymore. And people will say it's so the DLC doesn't get smoked and rolled over as easy. SO. FUCKING. WHAT? This was NEVER an issue in DS1, DS2, BB, DS3, but now it is? Why? So Miyazaki doesn't get his fee fees hurt? So me rolling into the Ringed City at level 500 and stomping the bosses makes the community mad? Why? They should laugh and say I overleveled and IGNORE MY STUPID WRONG OPINION. Also they say 'It let's me feel progression on my 100% base game complete character!', my brother in christ, just start over with a new character to experience the DLC at the intended level, like I fucking did with every Souls game so far. Why would I ever roll into DLC with a God-Tier character, and demand the game try and challenge me? I specifically powered myself up to be this way. If I want to collect useless shit all over again like in Limgrave I'd start over, and get that progression feeling again. Not expect it from an end game story DLC.

[@EndersupremE]

The whole game is artificial, it didn't grow on a tree It's what they found out to give a sense of progression and reward for players exploring, same as base game ER. Maybe it's not perfect, but it works great, you get the feel of getting stronger and stronger as you progress

[@skinnytimmy1]

​@EndersupremE it's still dumb that things you find in the open world make you more powerful than beating a boss.

[@EndersupremE]

@@skinnytimmy1 I think they didn't want to gatekeep this progression. In base ER you explore to get powerful to defeat a boss, it would be against that idea. But yeah they should have increased the amount of available scadooshes and made some bosses drop them

[@Focus716]

It’s “artificial”???? In what way? Is the whole game not artificial? The fragments are great because it actually allows you to make the game easier or harder depending on your preference. You can level your character and have low fragments, or keep a lower level for PvP and get all the fragments and easily beat all the bosses. I don’t see the issue. There are plenty of other games out there with complex skill trees and bars you gotta fill up for progress. Go play a Ubisoft title or some shit 😂 no need to ruin our games

[@boshwa20]

​@@Focus716 Tree fragments are a ubisoft collectathon

[@dietrichrache1975]

I disagree with a few things you said, like not having a map or respecs, but overall this was a great duology of videos. You hit basically all of the nails right on the head for why I can't love Elden Ring and can't be part of the fanbase turned cult. From and the fans have lost the plot with these games. It was never about difficulty, and this insane pursuit of even greater challenge and more difficult bosses who are now playing an entirely different game than the PC has driven the formula to the brink. I don't think this formula can be stretched any further, and any attempts to do so will fail. Whatever From does next needs to be a complete reinvention, because I will not be buying Elden Ring 2.

[@GoodIntentions1116]

>it was never about difficulty uh, lol?

[@austinmc12]

“ It was never about difficulty” Then right after says “insane pursuit of a greater challenge an more DIFFICULT bosses” bro jus say u got cooked an move on ur rambling

[@nightwatchmen6353]

Fanbase turn cult? So anyone that likes elden ring is part of a cult? Are you having a stroke?

[@nightwatchmen6353]

Ummm it was always about difficulty. It's just that from software's ds and er have become a mainstream

[@DerDoodler]

Just after DS1 Myiazaki stated that he wants his games to be seen as "satisfying rather than difficult". And even to this day he only means to convey accomplishment and tying the player to his world through difficulty. Difficulty just came along with it and there were times where Miyazaki said that things "were unreasonable" and had his team tone it down. Of course I would not expect the average illiterate ER cultist to be capable of opening a search engine, take 5 mins to look up these statements and understand what Miyazaki even wants to achieve with his games.

[@barofsoap6048]

Very good video.... i was surprised to find out you have almost no subscribers....quality stuff :)

[@solomani5959]

For the fragments I think it would be better if they were boss fight related.

[@joaoluizkfsantos8392]

That would just make them more tedious to acquire in subsequent runs. At least it's just a quick 30 min detour to grab them all after you know their locations, tying to stuff like dungeon bosses would be a mistake.

[@josephcoffey2175]

As much as I love elden Ring, I'll admit it does have a balancing issue. Most bosses really only had a couple of ways to win. The player doesn't have the capability to keep up with the burst attacks of the bosses. I've been going for cheese kills at this point, I feel the dance is just too much for one misstep, and you're dead, but again I love this game and is still my favorite at this time, but yes it can be a better game with proper balance, that's the evolution process of gaming I suppose.

[@Sephirothkingdom782]

I agree, but I feel like there were 3 exceptions to this in the dlc. Midra, bayle, and messmer all felt like traditional souls fights and they were great.

[@MIKUIEL]

This is a DLC not a sequel did you expect them to rework the entire game of the year?

[@raiden3013]

no. but a dlc should still improve from the experience of the base game. even if its not a sequel your paying half the amount of a new game.

[@MIKUIEL]

@@raiden3013 that’s what they did the boss fights were better there were new stances spells and weapons and better side quest tracking I don’t know what else you want out of them without having to completely rework the games mechanics or create a separate new game most dlcs only add content and maps while touching up some mechanics which is what fromsoft did by a lot I would add

[@zawarudo8991]

Fromsoft is loosing it‘s way, the good don‘t outweigh the ever piling bad. Reminder that chainsaw glitch is still in the game, among a plethera of others.

[@hadesgaming353]

THANK YOU for saying these games have only gotten more and more conventional as time has gone on! That's one of the main reasons why DS1 is one of my favorite games of all time and I can't ever enjoy games like Bloodborne and DS3 anywhere near as much as other people do. As time has gone on I feel that a lot of what I love about DS1 has been sanded away to create games with more and more mass appeal. I'm not trying to say that games having mass appeal inherently makes them worse, but rather that in chasing mass appeal you often end up leaving behind a lot of the flavor and vibe that i love so much about games like DS1.

[@shirakenpsyop6843]

This is absolutely the best video critique I've seen on this game. I think you brought up many points that aren't being discussed as much as the boss designs but which are equally as detrimental to Elden Ring's drop in quality from their other titles. I feel crazy that I find the game to be overall a mess when even the most critical essays start with, "I really love this game but..." There are moments that are really fun. And there is a staggering amount to appreciate from an artistic design perspective. But overall, I just kept seeing the seams and the cracks and just wanted it to be over with the first time I played it.

[@obadiahplainman8897]

No torrent and no map? That would take so long to finish…

[@JellySlays]

Im waiting to play the dlc on a different build but i think my overall criticism that bugs me the most is fashion and aesthetic and viability. Purple is my favorite color. We got a purple sword that glows deep purple. Sounds cool, but i already know it's not anywhere near viable as a normal weapon in the game. On top of it, no purple armor. This games excels in like only 4ish colors. Gold, Silver grayscales, red and maybe blue. Lacks greens, lacks purples, orange, pinks as primary colors for armor. Too many weapons have designs that can't be matched through armor and it's crazy to me. Armor in the base game was already hard to mix match and i think the dlc fixes that but it also failed to provide variety in colors. I feel like for every boss or enemy that doesn't have armor drops like romina, should have at least armor designed in their image/influence or theme. Idk

[@mmoodenz]

05:20 on Torrent being afraid of the frenzied flame, there is an item „Surging Flame of Frenzy“ explaining how it melts spirits, regardless of them being eternal. You can literally experience this when approaching the „Eye of Sauron“ by the Frenzied Flame Village, as your madness builds up, Torrent gradually loses HP.

[@truebacon133]

The reason scadutree fragments are a thing was to solve the overlevlled character problem when it came to DLCs. However they should've added more to spread them out and allow players to miss some but still get max like golden seeds. Its a hard problem to find a solution to and tbh I think it was a decent attempt.

[@evilfungas]

It improved on basically everything from the base game except progression, which is hard to balance for post-game content.

[@joesheridan9451]

How?? Overall boss qaulity worse, legacy dungeons worse, lore worse, art direction and beauty of the world worse, world even emptier and more boring… Final boss was a shitshow. Base game was overall much better experience

[@jerq887]

Regarding Torrent, all they had to do was make all the areas, villages, castles, caves, settlements disable torrent most castles and caves do this, but villages and settlements dont, there are a lot of sections where enemy placement was well thought out, to the point where it was designed to be a challenge to get through, on purpose Getting to the gate before Raya Lucaria, the random leyndell and liurnia knight settlements, hell even the random lookout towers that had a chest at the top, even they had themed enemies guarding them, and all threat made completely null because of torrent The Convergence Mod actually tackles this issue quite a bit, a lot of areas progression is made into an old school Dark Souls experience, with you having to go through _every corner of the area in order to get to the end_ And Castle Morne was given a completely new and unique maze-like "Gate Town" area that you had to complete and survive through, in order for you to get inside the actual castle In vanilla you just ride torrent straight through the front door

[@mattmakermusic9743]

I comepletely agree with almost all of the points you brought up. Back when I started ER, I was really excited, but that hype quickly dissipated as I realized just how stale the game felt. I had gotten my hopes up for the DLC but, alas, despite delivering what I think is the best boss encounter in the whole game (Messmer the Impaler), overall I was left unsatisfied by the expansion. In my opinion, FROM should stop trying to continously evolve what was the core gameplay loop in DeS. SOTE, and in general elden ring, feels like it wants to evolve into something else, into a more action based game, but it can't because the player is still stuck playing with the same core loop they had in 2011 while the rest of the game is out here playing Sekiro. Even if they want to keep making souls-likes, just changing what the core gameplay loop is based on (and they have done it, just look at BB or Sekiro, as much as it pains me to call it a souls-like) would do wonders for their future games. Mostly because it also wouldn't trick players into thinking that they can still play with the same understanding of the game that they had with DeS.

[@asnor7588]

I agree with a lot of stuff said here but at least some of the field bosses have important variations in moveset. The recyle is still a problem but I've felt it less in sote.

[@wyle2614]

Respec has consequences, but Elden Ring needs it. Imagine gathering all the crap (seeds, bell bearings, whetstones, etc.) for every new build, lmao. Edit: Changing build is fun too, it's not only a tool to counter certain bosses.

[@axelnilsson2031]

The audio cutting out all the time makes this video painful to listen to. Which is a shame because the points are legit.

[@HardHatDagu]

great video! i really disliked the quest design. Alot of them have way too many steps and the fact you can progress so far you lock yourself out of any quests was a big issue for me. I didnt like feeling like i should google things to get through the game.

[@paullogan5627]

Spot on man . Everything about Elden ring scares me about the future of fromsoftware .

[@HollowKnight21]

Elden Ring is by far their best selling, most critically acclaimed game. The DLC is by far their best selling, most critically acclaimed DLC. Doomsayers can just return to their ever beloved roll simulator DS3 or their 30fps, farm your regen items while fighting mid-bosses Bloodborne. Or you can drop out of the fandom and play, I don't know, Starfield.

[@Idontevenknowman779]

@@HollowKnight21wtf lol. Like you new fromsoft fans are literally insane. Bloodborne would eat you tf with your mimic tear summoning ahh 😂😂

[@JCashBeatz]

@@HollowKnight21 bloodbore is goated but u are right about everything else.

[@paullogan5627]

@@HollowKnight21 more popular = better is a child’s way of thinking. Going open world only added a small bit to the fromsoft formula but came at the cost of so many other aspects that it hardly justifies its own inclusion.

[@Stanzbey69]

@@Idontevenknowman779 i’m not a new fan, but he’s right. He put it very badly, but he’s right. Souls vets are way more insufferable

[@TheOxydium]

Thanks for presenting your opinion in a clear way. I'm sad you didn't connect with the experience like I did. I feel like a lot of people really do not vibe with what the open world added to the Souls formula. I find that it really elevates the rest of the traditional gameplay like the legacy dungeons. Having time to chill on your horse, exploring the map, going to several points of interest and then escalate the tension progressively when you find a dungeon and a road to a boss. This contrast between the two, makes both stronger in my opinion. But for a lot of people, this is a waste of time like you pointed at. I've seen countless players run past all the enemies and open world to go get their teeth kicked in by the boss and blame it on bad design (witch are not perfect, but still some awe inspiring battles). My experience while exploring fully was very rewarding. The world is such a beauty and Fromsoft has the strongest art direction in the industry. Figuring out the map lay out and how to reach certain zone is a real brain tease and it's something you almost never see in open worlds game applied like that. You find countless point of interest giving you loot and the levelling scadu tree. While doing this method, I never felt that I had to go back and find more because I was too weak when I reach one of the challenging bosses. And for other play through it only takes a few minutes to gather some and game design decision shouldn't lean too hard on catering to the repeated play through if it takes away from the first one witch should always be the priority. But once again, that importance can really vary from player to player so I understand that it can tarnished your opinion on the game. The one point in your video were I feel there is a bit of a contradiction, is about build diversity and how to approach the very difficult encounters in the game. You say that the Boss design doesn't encourage creativity or experimentation. And also that you can only use the meta build to defeat them. But you forget how those meta build are created : through creativity and experimentation. If most people will just look and copy the solution online, doesn't mean you have to do it too. It's like a puzzle. It's your choice if you want to solve it or look the solution. And solving it, will bring you joy and satisfaction while not so much if you just copy the solution from someone else. And if the solutions were the same as the base game, witch as been trivialised after being out for two years, that wouldn't really be a challenge. On my last point, I would say that keep your hopes up for Fromsoft future. Elden Ring was Elden Ring. It was huge and grandiose. It leaned more on the spectacle and an overpower fantasy. It had its own identity like the other franchise that made all of them special. Now that page has been closed and we probably gonna start fresh with a new project that will also have its own identity. It is bound to be different while keeping a lot of the ideas we cherished over the years. DarkSouls, Sekiro, Bloodborne and now EldenRing, everyone has a different favourite. They have different strengths and flaws but they all come from the same place of passion and respect for the player. Let's keep encouraging them to experiment and push the boundaries for a brighter future in gaming. Peace

[@ludognosis]

Thanks for the response. To your first point about the open world - I do partially agree. The more relaxed open world segments can help the pacing between the more tense dungeons. There were times when I was able to sit back and enjoy that part of the game, especially when finding a hidden path or figuring out how to get somewhere for the first time. However, I think that the game fails to fully utilize this potential; instead of allowing empty space and slower pacing between dungeons, there is always some "content", which is often low in quality, for example repeated field bosses or enemies which interrupt the flow of this more laid back exploration. Miyazaki has cited Shadow of the Colossus as an inspiration, I wish that this had shined through more in Elden Ring. As for the bosses, I can see your point, but for me, respeccing and completely changing builds during a playthrough is totally unimmersive, so that style of design just isn't for me. I'm glad you were able to enjoy it though.

[@TheOxydium]

@@ludognosis I'm curious but what was your opinion of the open world area of the base game? Did you already had this sense of wasted potential and having low quality of content? The caves, mines and ruins felt more focused and polished in the DLC. Even the field bosses usually had an added twist to them. But if you didn't find those enjoyable in the base game, them playing "the greatest hits" might have been annoying. When i'm talking about theory crafting, I'm talking mostly different weapons, ashes of war, spells, buffs, talismans and physics without having the break character. I feel like each build path and archetypes should have enough options and tools to beat every challenge of the game. Do you really think some of the design make some of them unplayable and obsolete? If so, I would agree that it is bad design. What build did you do for your play through? I will play the game with several archetype myself and see if some people have been left behind. And it's really a shame if that's true. Thanks for taking the time to respond

[@Idontevenknowman779]

See Elden Ring is perfect for you because you enjoy exploration for the sake of exploration. I think I’m at a point in my life where I need to feel like I’m progressing in the game or I feel like I’m just wandering through an Art gallery. Which is really cool but when there’s nothing interesting to find for my character, it’s just not all that compelling to me. Glad you enjoyed your experience

[@ludognosis]

I felt the base game was even worse for the open world, the DLC does leave more open space which is why many people find it even more "empty", which I wouldn't have minded except that I still felt the need to look everywhere for Scadutree Fragments. I did think SotE's map design was an improvement overall, which I touched on in the video, but I probably should have gone into more detail. At the same time, the reused enemies feel worse in DLC areas because we have already seen them many times before. The easiest example of missed potential in the base game is the area before Fire Giant. It could have been a somber few minutes of just riding on Torrent, seeing the remains of the giants, wondering about what had happened. Instead, it's filled with Trolls and Fingers, and the music keeps switching between the background ambience (which fits perfectly) and the combat theme. It might seem small, but it ruined the moment for me. For builds, I don't want to speak to definitively, because I haven't played with that many weapons. I started with a pure Int build with DMGS, then switched to a Faith build using Fire Knight's Greatsword. I didn't have too much trouble until Radahn, but the difference in difficulty once I switched to using a greatshield was massive. It completely trivializes the fight, and I imagine it would be the same for the other bosses as well. I like shields being usable again, but it really did turn a very difficult fight into a pushover. As other people have pointed out, the vast majority of spells and ashes of war are just not usable against bosses, you will get knocked out of the animation. Everything feels viable, even easy, in normal dungeon crawling, but against bosses, greatshields seem very, very good. Again, I might be wrong, but that was my experience.

[@joaoluizkfsantos8392]

Very well said, the open world is a feature to some, and for this group (me included) most complaints about it will fall on deaf ears. There's some frankly stupid players out there that can't seem to understand the concept of taste, and call everything an objective flaw when it's just a personal preference. Preach

[@thomaskopv2366]

I see your point about torrent, but i dont think i wouldve even finished the DLC if you had to run everywhere. Especially in areas like the finger ruins or cerulean coast where there is essentially nothing for long stretches.

[@Lambo-ux3uh]

i really expected to just not like this video bc i enjoyed the dlc myself but this is honestly really well made and thought out so I respect calling out the flaws and overall was a good video i love it

[@GageOnFire]

Completely off base with the respec mechanic, considering that's on From for not making the fights as manageable with specific builds. Respecs add a whole lot and stop you from having to restart your character and play the game from the start, a thing you yourself admitted was an annoyance in elden ring specifically. I agree with just about everything else however :)

[@Lambo-ux3uh]

i actually see and agree with a lot you say and i personally really enjoyed the dlc and found it fun, the only thing i would really argue is the build switching thing I dont think it is harmful to the game to be able to switch builds and this be some kind of excuse for bad boss design as these bosses are all managable I played the base game and the dlc for the first time recently and havent rebirth at rennala a single time mostly focusing on faith and holy damage some fights have been harder than others and radahn took way longer than any other boss so yes it is hard but i think anyone who cares enough to put in the time to learn a fight better will eventually overcome it and if they choose that they dont want to and switch to a cheese build then so be it i guess as long as the player is satisfied and had fun

[@SoulPotato007]

I watched your whole video. Although I play and platinum almost every souls like game and can agree that some Fromsoftware and non Fromsoftware games are better than Elden ring (Bloodborne and DS3 or Lies of P), I disagree with your general complaint of Elden ring dlc regarding exploration. Elden ring is an open world game and even the main game incentivises exploration. I don’t know why you would think that dlc would be different.

[@brentontariocanada7935]

In the last 4 years I've played eldein ring , lies of p, hogwarts legacy, armor core 6, sekiro, god of war , jedi survivor, witcher 3 to name a few. Elden ring is my favorite game ! I also enjoyed the DLC/ Expansion. My favorite combat is sekiro then followed up by lies of p. Good video and I agree with a good amount of your points.

[@brentontariocanada7935]

Freakin auto correct strikes again.

[@ryanator7935]

Onze really thought he was Virgil with those attacks 🫤

[@julekenjus__7393]

Bethesda is the same there Fans alwas say it is just Bethesda Jank and this is OK but players from outside are going to criticise Bethesda for it

[@TheQoogle]

Idk why you really expected they would not just make more Elden Ring considering how well received Elden Ring is.

[@gingeroverseer9302]

But why was it well received? If the game is hard then the only criticism can be skill issue there cannot be a discussion about actual design or mechanics. There is so much content and 15 years of history behind this series an honest conversation about enemy design cannot ever be had. And the open world was praised for its freedom of exploration but if the game DID have instructions and a HUD.... the game would be more shallow than a Ubisoft game. Go here hit this boss or castle or camp. Open a chest with....a smithing stone. That's the dlc for sure. The base game deserved game of the year for all it did well but the DLC expands on the good and mostly the BAD and gets 10/10? Nah. That gets a Hell no from me. I'm gonna beat Bayle then I'm gonna dip from the dlc I'm not interested in this anymore

[@Stanzbey69]

@@gingeroverseer9302 maybe because the game was good. Every single critique is a bunch of nitpicks blown out of proportion, joseph anderson style. Worst part of it is that there’s actually an audience for that low effort content.

[@_CrimsonBlade]

Good my ass this covid trash was only well received because everyone was bored at home with nothing to play

[@Idontevenknowman779]

@@Stanzbey69To be honest man, go play Bloodborne or Sekiro. Then come back and tell me if you think Elden Ring’s design philosophy is good and not ridiculously balanced

[@Stanzbey69]

@@Idontevenknowman779 8 playthroughs on bloodborne and 5 on sekiro :). I know what i’m talking about, unlike you. There’s no doubt sekiro is their most balanced game. Bloodborne is even more unbalanced than elden ring so i have no idea what you’re talking about. It’s literally faceroll or be facerolled in that game. Still love it though.

[@schmitz8073]

Dlc is shit end of duscussion

[@imustconsultwiththeeldergo5906]

16:37 criticizes game for lot of reused shit from main game then proceeds to praise same old level design that he already played countless times in demon's souls/ darks souls 1,2,3/ bloodborne years ago. so do you want new shit or old shit? make your mind please!

[@stevemichael652]

Imagine someone trying to use the bear claws on fucking Messmer There are two load outs 1) your fodder enemy build 2) your boss build But in reality you can use the boss build the entire game making every other weapon and build obsolete

[@_CrimsonBlade]

Imagine praising this trash for letting people play how they want then bashing them for trying to play how they want god i hate fromsoft and their trash fans

[@0xycon]

The whole point of having a variety of weapons in the game is to let people find whatever they like and use on anything in the game. Implying it's stupid for someone to use bear claws on a boss is just dumb.

[@stevemichael652]

@@0xycon it is tho. It is stupid. Unless you’re trying to challenge yo ur self Want the best chances? Use fps and sword lol

[@imdadchaklader4686]

​@stevemichael652 so what you're saying is fromsoft are shit at balancing and can't even encourage build variety, real smart one there 👍🏼

[@stevemichael652]

@@imdadchaklader4686 yea it’s true

[@sinistrous9169]

I’m ngl as a fanboy for Elden ring you have very solid points

[@ethanpispas4098]

Most of all these are just, you know, your opinion. You seem to not like Open World games and that's fine, but this is still your opinion.I am vastly annoyed when people so pompously call aspects of games as "a mess" or "bad" or whatever as if it is objective truth. This guy who is probably in his 20s (maybe even early 20s), keeps talking about the degradation of games, and how the old ones were good etc. I am approaching 40 and i was there to play Morrowind, Baldur's Gate 2 and Diablo 2 at the time of release. Since then i have played every RPG under the sun. Let me tell you something. GAMES ARE GETTING BETTER. No degradation whatsoever. Elden Ring, and especially Shadow of the Erdtree does the Open World design better than any other Open World Fantasy RPG has ever done in my opinion, and i have several hundred hours in all Bethesda games, The Witcher 3 and several other games. Side dungeons. Same thing. Sure there is repetition but there is FAR LESS repetition than other open world RPGs. The bosses in terms of difficulty are in line with all the other bosses in all Souls DLCs GIVEN THE TOOLS YOU HAVE. Maybe even easier. Sure MECHANICALLY Messmer is harder than the Fume Knight. But when fighting the Fume Knight your movement is much slower, you can't summon a spirit ash, there are not a million of buffs that you can stack on you, your damage is not nearly as high etc. Still, the original Dark Souls is unsurpassed for me, and personally i don't like the Spirit Summon system and the design choices around it. I would prefer if it didn't exist and we, the players, had extra tools (like Sekiro or Bloodborne) to tackle with the Bosses crazy moveset, but that's what we got and the game is still incredible. Still, i fought all the bosses without summons at NG+ RL 150, but with maxed out Scadutree Fragments (they carry over), and besides Radahn, i think the difficulty is vastly exaggerated at this point.

[@joaoluizkfsantos8392]

Thank you, I agree with the feeling. Just on my mid 20's still, but games are definitely getting better, we must just take out our nostalgia goggles to see it. It's easy to nitpick the fuck out of a new thing that's still fresh in our minds, while ignoring the same or even bigger flaws in our favorites from 10 years ago.

[@Apophes]

You should play good open wold that have pizzles, good dungeons and over all content. And not big open space with trash and only thing to do - fighting

[@Idontevenknowman779]

He’s back

[@LyllianaTV]

ringed city at least has new enemies smh, ds2 dlcs has new enemies too

[@Andi187187]

Maybe not clickbait, but not correct either. It's not a poor followup. I really enjoy playing it.

[@arisumego]

it's his opinion, it's not up to you to decide whether it's correct or not lmfao. fromdrones are really losing it

[@dashawnscruggs473]

@@arisumego”from drones” yeah whatever bro😭touch grass

[@henryzweihander8282]

Interesting seeing a rather different take on criticism of SotE. Specifically regarding the open world concept. I can't see the long traversals being palatable on repeat playthroughs especially without him as not every enemy is worth fighting. Scadutree fragments I partially disagree on as they are just multipliers. Yes, they lack decision making, but that's fine as they still proportionally enhance your existing rune level decisions. They won't make someone with no int a better sorcerer or make someone with no arc bleed things more. You mention their peers as well. To that I'm not sure there's a good solution as making them like levels ruins the gating process. The idea they could be done away with is an interesting one however. For those less enthralled by the explorative aspects I'm sure it would provide some relief from the demands of the current implementation. The item color coding is a great point though.

[@jahkiel7766]

very good video

[@Mohgenstein]

- Improved minor dungeons - Improved bosses - Improved open world design

[@joesheridan9451]

-improved minor dungeons. -worse legacy dungeons. (I only counted 2 and neither where as good as stormveil or leyendell) -worse bosses overall -worse lore -uglier world and art direction -even less unique enemies -even emptier and more boring, lifeless overworld

[@Mohgenstein]

@@joesheridan9451 Shadowkeep > Stormveil

[@cheejun7719]

Even cheaper AI for player. Just for the sake of Harder gameplay

[@thomasfaverty6788]

Beat the expansion using only 3 incantations. Most bosses downed first try. No covenants, no improvements for online play, boring open world, new incantations weren't that great except the new Knight lightning spear, but the ancient dragons lightning is still better for most bosses. All more reasons why Elden Ring is my least favorite in the Soulsborne franchise and I've been playing them since 2009 Demons Souls release. Sad to see the downfall but it was bound to happen.

[@henryzweihander8282]

The most breakout hit they've ever had and it's their "downfall". Most devs would pray for a "downfall" of in excess of 30 million sales between the base game and DLC.

[@darkspiro6467]

People expect the people at fromsoft to make a massive open world game have a unique enemy around every corner or say it should be more like there older titles without realizing the amount of work it takes to design ever single part of the world this is a limit to the amount of resources and creativity one can have this dlc is fun the bosses are pretty cool this dlc has actively made me a better player by getting me use to finding openings where I can get hits in each boss has their weakness to exploit the game gives you tons of tools spells and weapons to use in the end what you are looking for is another dark souls not elden ring

[@Idontevenknowman779]

Witcher 3 did it better. End of story

[@darkspiro6467]

@Idontevenknowman779 never played Witcher 3 but I hear more about its story rather than its gameplay so I'm not interested

[@sora3354]

elden ring is dark souls though. is elden ring your first souls game?

[@Apophes]

Get your head out of your ass. People expected fs to understand that if you incappable at making enough bosses for open world, then dont do it. Its not our fault ER have problem with copy paste or regular ENEMIES turned into bosses without any Improvements

[@shiroamakusa8075]

@@Idontevenknowman779 Witcher 3's combat is absolute floaty, weightless cancer.

[@_JesusIsLord_]

Their best games have been bloodborne, sekiro and ac6. The souls games are fully founded on level design and that can only be manufactured uniquely so many times. Elden Ring is mostly a open world spectacle machine once you reach a certain power level. And most bosses seem almost incompatible to a trivial move set until you watch an ongbal video. But that should not be the case. The game and its mechanics design itself should inspire us to try to best the boss in different ways. That imo is the dlc’s greatest failure. Overcoming a boss never felt like an accomplishment. Always felt like either random wins because boss ai brain farting or cheese fests. Wholly unsatisfying.

[@neilsaura-sacatropez9372]

Im so excited seeing that first giant furnace thing i immediately tried to fight him lost 12m runes and after i beat him i got 9k runes im so livid at that time lmao didnt even give any good items just one crafting material

[@raiden3013]

i mean the furance golems also drop some good wonderous physics items too. definitely worth beating for that. 12 mil runes not so base. with the trusty sacred relic sword and palace aproach ledge haha.

[@joesheridan9451]

I mean I hate that thing too but he gives you the Sekiro tear, one of the only good things about this DLC

[@SetariM]

There's a lore reason for why Torrent can't be summoned in the Abyssal Forest, read the item's description. That being said, I don't agree with the opinion on Torrent. The world is gigantic, Torrent is a horse, most enemies are on foot. I dunno what you expect lmao. The DLC absolutely entirely became a collectathon for me and it's just... not fun. The entire game was spent following a youtube video collecting fragments, all the way to the end. It sucks. IMO the DLC sucks. I'd rather run a NG+ 10 through the base game naked and talismanless than play through the DLC again on NG+1 even if NG+ retains the blessing from Scadutree fragments. Bosses have too much HP, too much damage output/combos. The base game bosses are far more balanced . You can use mostly whatever build you want in the base game. But in the DLC, it's bleed or fingerprint shield + rapier for most players to beat bosses. If I make a new character I'm just gonna save edit in the damn fragments, all 50 of em lmao

[@jeffosara2206]

While I agree with you on a number of things, I feel like some of the problems you listed are just part of the open world genre and are fine. Torrent is necessary since open world generally need a faster mode of travel on foot than walking and I cannot imagine how much worse exploration would be without him. You also do not have to fight everything. Running past enemies has been a part of Soulsborne games from the beginning and Torrent is just the latest iteration of it. Also respecing your character is not a problem. It is so that both beginners and experienced players can try different builds or correct mistakes in level distribution without making a new character. If a boss is requires a specific build, it is because of the choices of the developer and not the mechanic. Overall I enjoy it more when people are willing to criticize Fromsoft game than blindly praise it because they feel like they refuse to fix problems because they don’t have to. The don’t have to fix the camera for bigger bosses. They don’t have to make NPC feel like actual players by having them do anything but blindly attacking when they can just give them infinite stamina and FP and an amount of health only available to hackers. They don’t have to do anything in New Game + besides make numbers bigger. I enjoy the Soulsborne series but they are not perfect and more people should at the very least acknowledge that.

[@Murluv]

The open world is exhausting and boring. Hopefully fromsoft returns to form in delivering intricate "linear" levels.

[@paytonestrada7746]

The camera is bad on purpose, for artificial difficulty. Dark Souls 2 didn't have that issue, because it's not a Miyazaki game, that guy is a hack who makes the games bad on purpose. ER isn't about creativity, you are encouraged to follow guides and copy meta builds.

[@rangopistacho6928]

I love elden ring and I understand that it has major issues, this dlc clearly has them, the only issue i Have with the dlc is that of the final boss, a long ass endurance fight can be fun, bayle and midir are good examples of this: lots of hp, high damage but slow telegraphed movesets that are easy to learn while giving plenty of openings and having a weakspot to increase damage encouraging you to take some risk reward stuff that is actually rewarding the final boss on the other hand suffers the issue of being an endurance fight with too much dmg and hp while also being overly agressive and fast, if they simply reduced their health and damage down a fair amount it would be a much more balanced fight overall because you wouldnt be punished for it, everything else that the dlc is alright, messmer is fair and gives you plenty of good openings, rellenna while being agressive isnt too tanky and offers ample chances, Bayle is perfect and is a step up from midir, an absolute tank but has well telegraphed moves along with a really interesting movese, Midra is just fucking perfection even with madness buildup, putrescence is a weird boss but its nice to have a boss that actually is weak to holy for once, divine dancing beast lion only suffers camera issues apart from that its pretty much wonderful too, the sunflower was strange but great with its movesets and its gimmic was fun, metyr was alright probably the least interesting in terms of movset but lore its some of the most shocking stuff AND DONT YOU DISS MY DEMI HUMAN BOI MASTER YODA HIS MOVESET IS 100% ORIGINAL but moving to my point, there isnt really anything wrong with the dlcs difficulty, its clear that consort radahn is just the peak of their difficulty, and they know now not to enter that kind of bullshit territory in the future, elden ring feels more akin to an experiment because miazaki plans on making one last game using all the experience he had gained from elden ring and past games, hopefully he will one day create a new unique experience because i can agree I wouldnt want to just play another game with the exact dark souls mechanics

[@cherri6698]

Jokes on you. Monster Hunter has taught me to treat all mini bosses as the same guy and he wants a rematch

[@user-kb1su7mg1g]

why are you trans

[@Jamazed]

I'm still shocked people applaud Elden Ring's open world when that's clearly the worst part of the game and DLC. They slapped an open world onto their finely crafted dungeon game just for marketing to the broadest audience. Their open world is a chore just like the Ubisoft ones that players compare it to.

[@rangopistacho6928]

this is a pretty lame take ngl the open world has allowed for a lot more player freedom and creativity and no longer its just about hitting your head against ludex until you beat him, they are able to create massive gorgeous worlds that incentivize actual exploration, while ubisofts flaws is that their open worlds have you basically follow around quest markers all the time, elden ring does ocassionally use a few but thats only for like the volcano manor stuff, ubisoft just overbloats you with menial tasks while elden ring just lets you do whatever you want, you can outright skip godrick, or relanna and you have 5 shardbearers already that you can acess before getting into leyndell, the open world only really falls off in the endgame where it becomes more linear which is exactly what happened to dark souls 1, thats the only major issue. your take just seems rather lazy to be honest and im trying to be as cordial as possible, you havent even explained exactly why the open world is bad other then just comparing two completely diffrent game companies with completely diffrent game philosiphies, I am all for critiques and from software is not a perfect company but if you cant even put the effort into it why even bother saying it

[@lazerking5799]

​@@rangopistacho6928 There's no map markers but the map still shows you points of interest which is for example a mage tower, map fragment, ruins, mines, evergaols. All these are also usually pretty bland and feels gamey in a boring way, kind of like a far cry souls. DLC is a bit better in this regard though.

[@myb8955]

​​@@rangopistacho6928You do know that four entire Souls games were made and played by people before anyone ever bashed their head against Iudex, right? Demon's Souls came out in 2009 and was the most non-linear game in the series by a considerable margin until ER, proving that these games don't need to be one long hallway or a vast and empty open world - they can be something inbetween and play better for it.

[@joaoluizkfsantos8392]

​@@myb8955they can come in every format, and each player will have a preference for one. Acting like the open world model is the worst and that everyone should agree is disingenuous. It's a big selling point for many.

[@myb8955]

@@joaoluizkfsantos8392 Please, quote where I said that open worlds are the worst. I never even suggested anything that you seem to think I did.

[@JCashBeatz]

it SOUNDS like you are trying to say fromsoft developers are lazy and the time u spent/wasted playing the game is somehow more valuable then the time they took making the game. your points are unrealiatic. whatever u want elden ring to be is a dream. the perfect game you speak of doesnt exist and NEVER HAS.

[@rogalcorn734]

Not lazy, rushed.

[@ignotumperignotius630]

I really want to get the expac just to see this review

[@ludognosis]

I'm pretty negative about it, but if you've managed to not get spoiled, definitely wait to watch, there are some things worth seeing for yourself.

[@vandalic8566]

I really hope the next From Soft game is not open world. I'm so tired of open world in general

[@tribacioustee2846]

9:40 HOW DARE YOU

[@mcjagergaming]

Most of your opinions outside of Scadutree Fragments, and build optimization are extremely nit picky. Compling about torrent is pointless, show me another game the size of Elden Ring that doesnt have cars or mounts? Or Fast Traveling, bro this isnt Dark Souls 1 where you can complete the entier game in like 4 hours. A full playthough of Elden Ring doing every boss, and quest line is like 30-40 hours. Thats with previous playthough knowledge in mind. Re-using bosses has been a thing since DS1, the first 4 bosses of the game are reused. If anything its a way to cut corners while also keeping a since of consistency to your world. You shouldn't get mad when a intersection has a stop sign. Or how grocery store aisles have similar layouts. Things like that are done on purpose. Tbh it just sounds like you dont like Elden Ring because its open world, and gives the player freedom to do whatever. Thats a shame because the open world is the major thing that sets it apart from the rest of the franchise. Also if you think that Fast Traveling, Re-spec, and Torrent is the reason the game sold millions then you have no real understanding what people want. Fact is the souls formula is great. It doesn't need a complete redesign for every new title. There's plenty of things that separates this game from its predecessors Elden Ring is in a league of its own. There are so many single player games that come out with an item shop to nickel, and dime you every step of the way even though older games would have those things as challenges for you to complete, and earn. Or the game comes out, and you have to wait for month's for the game to be in complete or playable state. The game also dosent bend over backwards for casuals or Reddit users.

[@akamidnighthour]

Your arguments have some fundamental flaws the scattered tree fragment system is to prevent over level players from Rolling the system they are a percentage boost on top of whatever you can already do so 100% of nothing is still nothing, your gameplay shows a level 130 character which is not high by any means spamming with a dark moon Greatsword... not ideal to say the least. build diversities have fundamentally changed with the addition of new equipment

[@nacorcarmonablanco4414]

In fact its the opposite, fragments are there to allow players that reached the soft caps to keep increasing their damage and defense stats. A poor way to solve the soft cap "issue" in the dlc, btw.

[@_CrimsonBlade]

The fragments system is dumb if who cares about players who choose to enter the dlc overleveled that on them fromsoft should have force them to make a new character,which shouldn’t be problem somce they love this trash so much

[@bladechild2449]

you can just tell these channels wanting to break out were readying this kinda of viewpoint months before release, lol

[@ymalklk]

That’s the whole point ! To learn the attack patterns .

[@imustconsultwiththeeldergo5906]

what is point of learning enemy attack pattern if it's RNG?

[@shirakenpsyop6843]

@@imustconsultwiththeeldergo5906 Bigno. It's no wonder the run I beat Malenia in she used Waterfowl once. Same with Radhan mostly spamming his jump attacks on the run I beat him in.

[@joaoluizkfsantos8392]

​@@shirakenpsyop6843except you could have learned to dodge all that instead and be able to do the fights consistently. I know not everyone actually likes to learn bosses, dying 50+ times to slowly engrave every move timing in the brain, but the game gives so many tools to just bypass this learning step that it shouldn't be an issue for those ppl either.

[@Apophes]

​@@joaoluizkfsantos8392game don have any tools. Maybe you thing that ER is in th same leaves als nioh or lies of p, but unfortunately FS forgot they have 2 titles tha acually have tools, that can justify bosses with shitton of combos and 100k hp. But no we have basicly ds4

[@joaoluizkfsantos8392]

@@Apophes learn to type guy, it's painful to read your gibberish. Tools I was referring to (that can let you bypass fights you don't like/can't bother to learn mechanics): - great shields (can bypass the need to dodge, and just let you chill while watching the boss jump around) - spirit ashes (draw agro, making it easier to heal and watch what the boss is doing) - overpowered weapons/1-shot builds (bypass mechanics through shear damage or hit trading) - summoned players (let them solo) Probably a few more that I can't remember rn

[@DarkMustard1337]

I am finlly trying lords of the fallen and like it more than this dlc

[@NotEntirelyThere]

I feel the roamers In dungeons killed me more then the bosses

[@afterdarkprod3489]

Agreed on all points and wanted to say that I love how you highlight wasted time instead of the money. Tired of seeing people whine over $40

[@Sephirothkingdom782]

I disagree. Saying the games became more conventional than the last is just pure wrong. Sekiro was literally anything BUT that, same with ac6.

[@CreamTheEverythingFixer]

Paused the vid. Sorry, I am going to jump on your Torrent rant here, without Torrent the DLC would be way too big and grace distance too far. Not to mention the replaybility of the DLC would be shafted, once you collect the Fragments, Spirit Ashes and special items, on a second run of the DLC you would have to slowly traverse every area, with no tangible reward. It would not feel more rewarding. The reward of special items is once, the reward of exploration is once. Without Torrent 90% of the DLC playtime would traversing the large barren map, fighting the same 7 enemies. There's a reason why most people on NG+ and New Characters just blast past most of the open world in the base game, because it not that good.

[@LyllianaTV]

haha, gonna do no torrent run LMFAO