It is always amazing to me that people who think this way are the comfortable, well-dressed beneficiaries of conflict instead of the blood-soaked, battle weary soldiers that inevitably pay the price for this philosophy.
@SantomPh2 жыл бұрын
And they are all white.
@thijsjong2 жыл бұрын
@@SantomPh So there was imperial Japan. The Mayas. The Aztecs. The warring tribes of the great plains. The Arab conquests. The Mamaluks. The Mongols. The Turks. The Zulus.. The Bantus etc.etc. There have always been cultures of different races subjegating other races and cultures. Sometimes killing whole cities enslaving them. It goes back to the stone age. All over the world. All races. It is just that the industrial revolution gave the white peoples a cutting edge over the others. Better cannons and muskets. And in the seond half of the 19th century steam engines. Africa was colonised after the invention of medicine that gave Europeans resitance to tropical diseases. It is a dirty game and Europeans were just better at it for 150 years. That time might come to pass. Maybe China will become the n1 superpower and American cultural influence will wane. But we never know. Over 50 years another superpower might be in charge that will neither be China or the U.S.A. that we did not even see coming. There is a cultural virus going around in the U.S.A. it is guilt and blame and it lead to nothing constructive ans just eats the nation up from the in side. It is like the country is commiting cultural suicide. Not my problem. Just an observation.
@jonreese70662 жыл бұрын
@@SantomPh not all. Africans were sold to Europeans in Africa by fellow Africans. Imperial Japan did it to Chinese, Koreans Look up Ghengis Khan Its not a white thing its a human thing.
@patryn362 жыл бұрын
Violence is the currency of life, without it there would be no life beyond a few microbes maybe. Humans are the only ones to whine about it when they are on the losing end of it.
@SiwakSerg2 жыл бұрын
@@SantomPh It amuses me, how little one has to know to spit out such allegations. Were the Egyptian white? They were northern Africans, as they still are, and they enslaved Jew. "Let my people go" was about this particular part of human history. By the way, black people were set free almost at the same period of time when a very large group of WHITE(!!!!) slaves were promised this kind of freedom, got it officially but never obtained it truly. This led them to the Civil War and the subsequent victory over monarchism - this is how communism started in Russia.
@Johnston2123 жыл бұрын
This just made me think of something that I wouldn't have thought of before. Rules 34 & 35 of the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition: War is good for business. Peace is good for business. Even Ferengi, in the own messed up ways, understood the benefits of balance.
@Brownshoe242 жыл бұрын
Eilerson: "Nations rise and fall. Planets live and die. But corporations go on, through good times and bad, because it's all about profit." - Crusade (Racing the Night) - J. Michael Straczynski
@zchen27 Жыл бұрын
There is no evolution if war is so constant that people can't risk change. Nor will there be evolution if the war goes so out of hand that everyone collapses back to the stone age. Chaos provides the impetus for progress. Stability gives the chance for progress to take place. Continual chaos will simply knock everyone further and further back down the ladder.
@Lucius_Chiaraviglio Жыл бұрын
I wouldn't say balance so much as opportunism (which the Ferengi consider a prime virtue).
@TimoRutanen Жыл бұрын
The conclusion from those two rules is that status quo is bad for business.
@haakonstenseth10 ай бұрын
Shut up Quark 😁
@IanPeon3 жыл бұрын
Just when Sheridan thought he couldn't possibly be more at odds with these beings, he heard them speak.
@davesworld79614 жыл бұрын
As an insect race the shadows in their pre tech age probably had to eat their siblings to survive the hard times.
@Aivottaja3 жыл бұрын
The Vorlons were insectoids as well probably. Their energy forms insinuate as much.
@patrickstivers73873 жыл бұрын
@@Aivottaja I don't know how you figured that. The Vorlons obviously evolved from some kind of aquatic life similar to cephalopods based on what Ulkesh looked like outside of his suit. In fact, I imagine that they looked like the Thirdspace Alien before they ascended. Which make you wonder if the Thirdspace Aliens weren't just alternate reality Vorlons that went a different way.
@chrism73953 жыл бұрын
@@patrickstivers7387 agreed, the Vorlon ships are also quite cuttlefish-like. I'd find it quite funny if Deuce (the crime boss who used a Nakaleen Feeder disguised as a Vorlon) was inadvertently on the money with the true appearance of a Vorlon (my headcanon is that Vorlons and Nakaleen are evolutionary relatives like us and other primates)
@etorres4u2 жыл бұрын
@@Aivottaja the Vorlon’s actual true appearance was more like an octopus. But as a psychic species they hid their true appearance to make them more like “divine” beings of the particular species they were interacting with. In many ways they were manipulative a-holes who never gave straight answers. The Shadows were bad, but Vorlons were just as bad.
@Aivottaja2 жыл бұрын
@@etorres4u Exactly. Neither the Vorlons nor the Shadows were good. The younger races were just pawns for them to prove their own ideology's superiority.
@matthewlloyd3255 Жыл бұрын
Of the two older races - I would suggest the Shadows were the more honest about their reasons for doing what they're doing. Justin and Mordin's explanation is quite truthful to what the Shadows had been trying to do for millenia. Whereas the Vorlons never truly explained themselves or their philosophy to their followers - the Minbari, despite presenting themselves as "the good guys" through their disguse as angelic beings.
@TheCmac1966 Жыл бұрын
This is actually true. When Sheridan’s wife tries to convince him, she is honest. “I am not that person, but I could grow to love you. “ She could have easily manipulated him and lied. She didn’t. As reprehensible as survival of the fittest might seem, they were honest about it.
@haakonstenseth10 ай бұрын
Who is Mordin? His name is Morden not Mordin 😁
@rocketsjudoka10 ай бұрын
The Vorlons goal was order and they saw their role as providing direction to the younger species through order. That also meant manipulating them. The central conflict of B5 was Chaos represented by the Shadows with Order represented by the Vorlons. Ultimately both sides were rejected by the younger races.
@jacobwiren81429 ай бұрын
It's simply a byproduct of their respective philosophies. The Vorlons know WHO they are. They know it so strongly that they have to wear protection so that others' thoughts don't "contaminate" them. They know it so strongly that they don't understand what they want anymore. When Vorlons help people, it isn't because they "want" to help people. They do it because that's "who they are". They are the kind of people who help others preserve themselves. They are also the kind of people who violently retaliate against anyone who harms them, as we see later. This is all consistent with their beliefs, and is also the reason why they are enigmatic. To share yourself with another means allowing the other to change you. The Vorlons cannot allow that, because the "self" is sacred to them. The Shadows are the opposite. They know what they WANT. They know it so strongly that they have become illusory and invisible. All the better to avoid interference even from each other. They know it so strongly that they don't understand who they are anymore, and that they have become monstrous. "Desire" is sacred to them, and the "self" is something to be discarded. This is why they are invisible, why they use proxies for their capital ships, why they do not grandstand or play politics... and also why they are honest with Sheridan. They are sharing their desire with him in order to change him, and THEY SUCCEED in doing so. Sheridan is never the same after this encounter, and his decisions ultimately allow the Shadows to get EXACTLY what they want. They and the Vorlons depart the galaxy together, reunited with the First One, and Sheridan makes this possible. Sheridan also makes the decisions that lead to the destruction of the Centauri, which G'Kar requested. Everyone who spoke with Morden got exactly what they asked for: Lando saw the Centauri great again, G'Kar saw them ruined, Delenn saw Morden leave, Vir saw Morden die. The Shadows are a force of desire itself, and by their power desire is made real.
@cepson3 жыл бұрын
"After all it's not that awful. You know what the fellow said - in Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace - and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock." - Harry Lime *Note: Harry Lime was the bad guy.
@seanwieland9763Ай бұрын
💯💯💯
@stormthrush373 жыл бұрын
Sooner after this, Sheridan would share his own philosophy with them: gunpoint.
@Coolman133553 жыл бұрын
More like when in doubt use a nuke.
@gregdeandrea14502 жыл бұрын
NUKE point, actually
@eryian2 жыл бұрын
@@gregdeandrea1450 yeah, Sheridan's answer, bomb Z'Ha'Dum with several nuclear missiles.
@scottgodfrey7118 Жыл бұрын
No, more than that. He used their philosophy against them. If they truly believe in conflict having two of their cities nuked out of existence should, by their logic have made them stronger and better, so he was doing them a favour. Unless they don't believe what they preach.
@MDE_never_diesАй бұрын
So…..Conflict
@thanishmathew17383 жыл бұрын
Mr. Morden is a great villain
@Bazookatone12 жыл бұрын
He's got just the most punchable face, honestly, if he hadn't become the Shadowns agent, he would have been a great used car salesman or something. He's just so greasy.
@shadow-js2hn2 жыл бұрын
@@Bazookatone1 shadows are richier than Eath trade companies alltogether.😁
@TheKnightOfSmite2 жыл бұрын
@@Bazookatone1 Ironically the actor himself was a salesman lol
@paulstone35902 жыл бұрын
I always liked him when watching B5 as a kid. So he did his job well as a bad guy. I never bothered learning his name and what else he did in his acting career. Watching some clips today it dawned no me he is Italian. When watching these Scifi shows people focus on the show and not ethnicities. So that's a good thing. Something all people can get around.
@mikeclemens7953 жыл бұрын
"Knocking over an anthill". That's downright chilling. Shows what they think of "lower life forms".
@jmlaw88883 жыл бұрын
One thing this series truly surprised me with is how elegantly it shifted from "the evil big bad has returned to threaten the galaxy" to the revelation that the younger races were being used. Used not even in a war but rather in a debate or a game of chess. Dont think Ive ever seen a sci-fi series address the imbalance between ancient and new species quite as well as B5 did it.
@wallisparnell44642 жыл бұрын
Lol….Therese people are lower life….lol
@SonnyBubba2 жыл бұрын
While the Vorlons recruit Jack the Ripper to see who’s ready to fight the upcoming war.
@hazardousjazzgasm129 Жыл бұрын
It mimics the conversation G'kar had with Catherine in season 1. That comparing the creature in Sigma 957 to humans is like comparing humans to ants
@clairestark90243 жыл бұрын
The ultimate issue is there effort is pointless, struggle occurs naturally, if anything they're too destructive so deny the chance to grow. For example they fast tracked the centari narn war to the point it was ultimately detrimental to both factions.
@Aivottaja3 жыл бұрын
Exactly. Wars happen without the Shadows anyway.
@ArconisDeusEX3 жыл бұрын
Yes but , they were trying to help the younger race grow to where they are. It took the first Races millions and millions of years to get to where they were. They wanted to make the youngers race get there faster. And this was their tool. Because its how they got there.
@marianpazdzioch66323 жыл бұрын
Except when race like Vorlons get involved and stop natural conflicts.
@Aivottaja3 жыл бұрын
@@marianpazdzioch6632 That's why they were both told to get the hell out of the galaxy.
@Tuberuser1873 жыл бұрын
@@ArconisDeusEX I don't think either the Vorlons or Shadows actually cared for the original goals, they might claim they did but it just seemed they where too busy just trying to prove each other wrong.
@EpicNinjaShiro2 жыл бұрын
It's funny how the Vorlons were the logical group that suppressed their emotions and resulted in them getting out of control, while the shadows were emotional to the point they carried things out to "their logical conclusion". The first delays instant gratification for long term benefit while the second is all about instant gratification at the cost of long term benefit (like it being unfortunate that races were lost along the way), with instant being relative as they are long lived races.
@crylittlesister6377 Жыл бұрын
Almost like Gen X vs Millenials 😄
@AkhshamiKsyAksKhaos Жыл бұрын
@@crylittlesister6377 ...if only it was so...simple... Bit by bit...generation after generation...eroding away the possibility...for decent beings... To what end?.. 😈...
@Ryooken Жыл бұрын
It's always about Yin and Yang both sides of the same coin.
@dominicjohnson307 Жыл бұрын
The Vorlons and Shadows represent 2 sides of the same coin. They lost their way because they forgot that everything needed balance.
@Ryooken Жыл бұрын
@@dominicjohnson307 I think they lost their way not because of balance but because they didn't listen to Lorien and let the younger races find their own way.
@Intrafacial863 жыл бұрын
The primary problem with the Shadow philosophy is that they go out of their way to _create_ constant, unnatural conflict. If conflict is unending, when can you ever hope to write sonnets, much less enjoy them? If conflict is unnatural, are you truly made stronger, or are you just better at playing some made-up game?
@Perplexum3 жыл бұрын
It's not constant, only every few thousand years. Most of the time they lie dormant and don't do anything at all, to let the younger races breathe and and grow from the previous conflict.
@chrisbingley3 жыл бұрын
You should read some of the poems written in the trenches of WWI. Even when fighting on the front lines, there is still time for poetry.
@ant48123 жыл бұрын
A good example of what happens when you have unending conflict - compare the level of artistry & craftsmanship of Scandinavian Migration Era/Vendel Era armour, weapons & jewellery with what was being made 200-300 years later in the Viking Era. The later stuff is crude by comparison. They'd gone backwards. Meanwhile in 8-9th Century Anglo-Saxon Britain, where there had been relative peace in the intervening centuries, they had a rich culture and probably the finest goldsmiths in all of Europe.
@Vektab3 жыл бұрын
If you can’t write and enjoy a sonnet in 1,000 years or so, then it was never meant to be.
@brianwhedon84423 жыл бұрын
The Shadow Wars were originally 10,000 years apart. It had been that way for 100+ million years. The Vorlons creating telepaths violated Lorien's agreement and that started a 10,000 year arms race (telepaths vs technomages) that was to end in the Shadow War of 1000 years ago (also referred to as Valen's War). The Shadows were on the verge of winning again (with the Vorlons cheating) so the Vorlons brought in Valen and B4. The Great War of 2260 was just the continuation of the Great War of the mid 1243-1260
@HoobriBoobri3 жыл бұрын
conflicts between humanity are needed only for whos who wants power over us! In every conflict there are to sides - one for slaves who fights and masters who provokes masses of people. But sad truth is that we must fight against people who wants to devaste and enslave us. And it is allways a victory of part of this rullers...
@Moneor4 жыл бұрын
Justin: your kindly, social Darwinist grandpa
@Aivottaja3 жыл бұрын
Mark Twain meets Charles Darwin.
@cavok843 жыл бұрын
Lol!
@jmlaw88883 жыл бұрын
Not really Dawinist. Darwin never dabbled in ideals of "conflict breeding strength". In fact his theory as often as not could show evolutionary success for the exact opposite. Say for example a non-aggressive organism that simply breeds too fast. Doesnt matter if its a prey animal, if its reproductive capabilities outstrip predation by other animals its succeeded in evolutionary terms. Or a creature that develops effective evading abilities. Strength and power have very little to do with Darwinian evolution.
@hazardousjazzgasm129 Жыл бұрын
@@jmlaw8888 Darwinism =/= social darwinism
@jmlaw8888 Жыл бұрын
@@hazardousjazzgasm129 Then its just social. Theres absolutely no need for the Darwinist part.
@EternalDarknessAboveTheBlueSky3 жыл бұрын
No matter how many ant hills you kick over, they will never be able to be strong enough to withstand your kick. Any belief otherwise is just to excuse your need to kick over an anthill. You can't get stronger when you're dead. Being lucky enough to avoid a bomb or laser does not make you stronger. The ones that die make you weaker. Any thing said otherwise is an excuse to kill.
@demiserofd2 жыл бұрын
That's not necessarily true. Eventually they might evolve into fire ants, and then they can keep you further away from the hill. Or maybe they move the anthill entirely underground, protected from your feet. Or they dig into solid rock, resistant to your efforts. You've gotta remember that long ago, humans were just small furry primates in the trees, unable to stop anything. Now we've conquered the planet.
@lorigulfnoldor21622 жыл бұрын
Not only that; there's also the fact that if ants ever evolve to the point that your kicks are not a threat to them, then they're in a direct competiton for survival against you; and, due to your efforts, they spent their "youth" as a race hardening themselves against adversity; and now YOU are this adversity for THEM, while THEY are "beloved students" for YOU... and suddenly you realise that you did not think this through, lol. So either you destroy them in the process of training; or you destroy them when they are a threat to you and your efforts go to waste; or you have grown your own very dangerous enemy. In any case, there's very little sense to do that. Except out of religious duty, yes, religious duty.... maybe they are simply fanatics?
@paulstone35902 жыл бұрын
Wrong analogy. Termites do build better structures when they are knocked down. And war is a catalyst for innovation and growth. But it also destroys many people who could have made significant advances to their race. I suppose a balance is needed.
@LordTalax Жыл бұрын
Was it the Minbari that said war doesn't prove who's right just who's left?
@user-kq1hf5sv2l Жыл бұрын
@@paulstone3590 And war is a catalyst for innovation and growth/ such a myth bullshit
@crazedvole3 жыл бұрын
Funny thing about the shadows is all they had to do was sit back and do nothing and there would be plenty of conflict and *evolution*
@jasonbourneistreadstone3 жыл бұрын
That's the thing: The show's creators even reference this in the opening monologue for the series: "last, best hope for peace". It's not like the other races weren't fighting all the time already. Everyone was fighting already!! It wasn't all sunshine and roses.. Peace and Love.
@chadwickerman3 жыл бұрын
It probably wasn't enough for their vision. With the way things were, there were border wars, conflicts, squabbling, etc. but they would eventually be settled in courts, in the league of non aligned worlds, the B5 advisory council, et al. The Shadows wanted species fighting for their existence, desperate, being forced to grow, evolve, change, or be wiped out. They wanted species turning their entire collective will to surviving and killing their enemies off completely, only to come out much stronger generations down the line. They wanted the forest of sick and diseased old trees to be burned down so the seedlings could grow up stronger and better. Just a few conflicts here and there wasn't pushing their agenda.
@Matej_Sojka3 жыл бұрын
@@chadwickerman A new forrest will not grow up if you go in with a flamethrower every time a green leaf appears.
@desa4156 ай бұрын
I grew up in Silicon Valley. The fantastic technology that came out of it was for business, medical research, communications, education, space exploration, and oh yes, the military. But mainly for the betterment of humankind. And it was relatively peaceful for the US between 1975-1990; the height of the Computer Revolution.
@sunnchilde4 жыл бұрын
This is way too chopped up. This scene is gold. You are tearing up gold. You should be ashamed of yourself.
@Cenindo4 жыл бұрын
Interesting profile picture you have.
@casbot713 жыл бұрын
If anyone finds a copy that isn't edited, can you post a link here?
@mahatmarandy59773 жыл бұрын
Jeff Corey - the actor who plays Justin - had a long history playing genre roles. My personal favorite was in the "OBIT" episode of "The Outer Limits."
@Janovus2 жыл бұрын
Also Plasus from Star Trek “ The Cloud Minders.”
@kevinjasper66205 жыл бұрын
True to a point. Without struggle, strife and discord a society will stagnat , and then die. There would be no reason to get better, to improve, to change. The question to be asked... Who gave them, whoever it may be, the right to decide for all the others. If you are self-appointed, then you are in error. It is not for you to shape and remold the future. Each must find within it's collective self the desire and the way to grow, change and improve. Now I know, this will lead to a very few superior races, while the rest of the cosmos drifts along is merry way. These few races then must be mindful not to interfere with the less developed worlds. This method is a more equal method to achieve ( the shadows) goal.
@sanstx39874 жыл бұрын
What a bullshit. There is another way, look what did John Fitzgerald Kennedy in the human history. Only the weak choose the war and suffering way because they fear the existens.
@CrniWuk4 жыл бұрын
@@sanstx3987 It's a philosophy. Not one I necessarily support, but one nonetheless. It touches on Social Darwinism and conflict as source for invention. Survival of the fittest and so on. Again I am not a support of it but I think I have to make a defending case in the context of the movie. The Shadows are opposed to the Vorlons. Where the shadows prefer chaos the Vorlons look out for order. The shadows ask, what do you want? The Vorlons ask who are you? They are races with a history of 100.000 of years. I don't think one can apply a simple human minded perspective to their logic. Consider this. Imagine a human being was immortal and existed for thousands of years. What would be his outlook on life? Would he follow the same principles as most other people do? Probably not. Same if we would be talking about a human with immense power where he could do things no other human can do, like a sort of Superman. So it's not so much about who's right or wrong but the perspective. You do have some races in the show that supported the Shadows voluntarily after all. And in their mind their success proves them right. They are one of the higher races that managed to ascend trough this logic. Just like the Vorlons did with their way. In the End Sheridan finds a whole new way for him and the galaxy anyway where they decide to do it on their own without the Vorlons or Shadows. It's really good written science fiction.
@amramjose3 жыл бұрын
Tell that to the millions displaced from Syria, Yemen...
@Aivottaja3 жыл бұрын
Life itself is a struggle.
@user-kq1hf5sv2l Жыл бұрын
Go and die in struggles- all of you only can blabla from you comforts environments. Demagogues all you are
@mattwho814 жыл бұрын
Ultimately the Shadows were not wrong, but then neither were the Vorlons. Both sides had their position on how to advance the Younger races but the problem wasn't who was right and who wrong. The problem was both sides decided their way was the only way, they couldn't accept that there were other points of view. Their bi-partisan feud was the problem, not their philosophys.
@y0uCantHandle3 жыл бұрын
Yes. Now get the hell out of our galaxy
@Daktangle3 жыл бұрын
Mr Morden(sp?) exemplifies that. He completely brushes over how many of humanities accomplishments came from co-operation and unity, and not strife and conflict.
@sword40053 жыл бұрын
vorlon saying truth is a three edge sword your side their side and the truth
@Hiraghm3 жыл бұрын
no, what was wrong was deciding they had the right to advance the younger _species_ .
@Willaev3 жыл бұрын
@@Daktangle Few of humanity’s accomplishments came from unity and cooperation.
@MrThemortgage3 жыл бұрын
Mr. Morden is creepy! Great acting...
@sumanadasawijayapala53722 жыл бұрын
Yeah, he wasn't the best person to try to convince Sheridan.
@sneaksyranger3 жыл бұрын
Laura Ingalls Wilder had it rough after the prairie, I gather.
@alicemi41552 жыл бұрын
Unfortunately there always comes a time when you have to leave "the prairie" behind and face the wide world. Which is always older and meaner than you, child.
@sneaksyranger2 жыл бұрын
@@alicemi4155 I'm going to hope that I am just missing a different joke instead of your trying to get snarky on a reference to Melissa Gilbert (the redhead) used to play Laura Ingalls Wilder when she was a child.
@reelsoffortuneslotsplay4267 Жыл бұрын
George R.R. Martin of Game of Thrones wrote a great piece called "The Sand Kings" where this philosophy is demonstrated in it's most horrible glory
@F40PH-2CAT Жыл бұрын
Social Darwinism. It's most insidious aspect is that there's a grain of truth to it.
@freewilliam934 жыл бұрын
Should upload the whole scene....
@Punnery3 жыл бұрын
I wonder if the people stuck in long-running conflict zones like DR Congo, Syria or Yemen feel like they're coming out stronger, with their economies in tatters and an incalculable human toll. Granted that progress (however you care to define that very usefully nebulous term) sometimes involves what some call "creative destruction" as new things supplant old things. Organizing wholesale destruction and unhappiness in the hope that somehow some kind of "progress" will emerge seems profoundly irresponsible. JMS seems to be implying a moral equivalency between the Shadows' approach and the Vorlons', but I don't think such an equivalency really works in the real world--it seems to put medical missions on the same moral plane as demagogues and rabble-rousers.
@mmouse18863 жыл бұрын
There's a pretty wide berth between the Civil Wars in intentionally flimsily put up post-colonial Governments and things like the Second and First World Wars. Inventing and mass issuing the radio throughout the planet and Splitting the Atom and using it for power in the sense of Strength of Arms and the kind that keeps your lights on.
@user-kq1hf5sv2l Жыл бұрын
@@mmouse1886 It was not because of conflicts
@tompearce5418 Жыл бұрын
The Shadow philosophy was intended to be seen as monstrous. Realistically if the Shadows believed in healthy competition they could just as easily have opened a trade fair or an Interstellar Olympics.
@rangodeldiablo4 жыл бұрын
What the shadows fail to realize is that the strength that they idolize comes at a terrible cost. Continuous, unending war and conflict may make people stronger, but if it keeps going without time for people to rest and consolidated what they have and are fighting for, they lose everything that they are. Their culture, ideas, technology, even their our identity will be destroyed. That is where order comes in, it allows beings to rest, recover, and take time to remember who they are, where they come from, and what they are doing.
@kmarasin3 жыл бұрын
aka the answer to the question "who are you?" as opposed to fighting for the answer to the question "what do you want?"
@mossing2343 жыл бұрын
The drell green vs purple conflict shows they do take that into account
@brianwhedon84423 жыл бұрын
The Shadow Wars took place every 10k years or so. The last Shadow War was interrupted by the arrival of B4 and Valen. That's why the Shadows and Vorlons were preparing for an end-all 1000 years later
@spionsilver96263 жыл бұрын
@@mossing234 drazi :)
@Aivottaja3 жыл бұрын
It's not like races need help in finding conflict with each other.
@McRocket Жыл бұрын
Shadow Philosophy: when your life is empty? Why not play a gigantic game with your nemesis (the Vorlons)? Using billions of inferior beings in a galactic experiment to prove that your way is better. Neither the Vorlons nor the Shadows did what they did for the good of the galaxy. They did it to entertain themselves...at the expense of billions of sentient beings. A gigantic pastime called 'Playing God'. ☮
@lapidus95523 жыл бұрын
"Release our potential nuts" Story of my life.
@craig83994 жыл бұрын
Vorlons and shadows are debating philosophy in these comments
@raven4k9983 жыл бұрын
evolution will be served one way or another
@veleriphon3 жыл бұрын
Who are you? What do you want?
@raven4k9983 жыл бұрын
@@veleriphon Who are you? What do you want?
@veleriphon3 жыл бұрын
@Raven4k Exactly.
@raven4k9983 жыл бұрын
@@veleriphon you didn't answer the question lol
@tompearce5418 Жыл бұрын
I wonder if Morden was thinking of this speech when the Centauri ripped his head off.
@tsm688 Жыл бұрын
he'd been ready to die for a long time. really, he'd already died.
@PatraGR4 жыл бұрын
The voice of Justin sounds the same as the intro voice of the English dub "Fist of the North star" anime movie
@OrbGoblin3 жыл бұрын
Lol holy crap, that is an amazing observation.
@razorburn6453 жыл бұрын
Damn now I'm picturing what B5 would look like in that style. It would be glorious.
@alexiachimciuc31992 жыл бұрын
I good question for the shadows is who was that knocked your ant hill.
@valensigmund19572 ай бұрын
He speak the truth, evolution will be served, one way or another.
@razak44943 жыл бұрын
This is a very interesting point of view. The Shadows are correct. A lot of things we enjoy today are the result of war and conflict. Not just technologies but our freedoms. Most wars result in advancements in technology and strategy. The United States is a good example. Every war makes us better, stronger, smarter.
@ethenallen13883 жыл бұрын
Sheridan was building an alliance that would make all of the races stronger, and the Shadows were trying to destroy it because it threatened their dominance over the younger races.
@ethenallen13883 жыл бұрын
@Nihulistic99th The danger with that ideology is that it can lead to a people thinking that they not only have the right but the obligation to exterminate so called lesser races, something that really has happened on Earth at least once that I know of and probably inspired the creatures the Vorlon encountered in Third Space. Conflict can be useful, but it needs to be applied in moderation. A good example was when Garibaldi took over Edgar Industry. He brought in people with attitudes to help him shake things up, but made it clear that he was still the boss and would hold them accountable for their mistakes. "if you're right, you'll get a bonus. If you're wrong, I will have you for lunch." The problem with the Shadows is that, like the Vorlons, they had lost any sense of moderation they had one had. Kosh gave his life to help the Younger Races twice because he was looking beyond himself to consider their needs. The reaction of "Anna Sheridan" when she saw that White Star crashing down makes me think that she was far less willing to make a sacrifice than demand one from others, and it was because her masters no longer cared about helping the Younger Races grow, it was just an excuse to fight a proxy war with the Vorlons, and the Vorlons were just as bad. That was why Lorean and the other First Ones joined the Younger Races in calling out the Vorlons and Shadows. It was no longer a case of one side being right and the other wrong. It no longer mattered who had broken trust first. It had to end, and the Shadows did not want that any more than the Vorlons so they tried to destroy the alliance Sheridan was building.
@mostlymessingabout3 жыл бұрын
... and a few people a lot richer... on the mountain of millions of dead non-Americans
@AnonEyeMouse3 жыл бұрын
If that were true, how come your society is so broken and suffering? Healthcare, crime, political corruption, predatory law enforcement... Who gets the benefit of a parasitic philosophy? Not the host. Making war means you make war better. sometimes those technologies leak out. That isn't unique to conflict. When Germany and Japan lost in WWII BOTH were forced to agree to curtail any military investment. They essentially were limited to a homeguard style military with no expeditionary power. Instead, they became industrial and electronic powerhouses, dominating production for decades to come. Even today, German Engineering and Japanese Electronics are world leaders. Advancement comes where you put your focus and your rewards. Imagine what rewards could come if the focus was on removing hardship and woes and pursuing peace and understanding of both ourselves and the world around us? The C.E.R.N. particle accelerator was one such focus on knowledge. Modern computing was driven by games, not warfare. The desire for better graphics and smarter world simulations. The real driver is the thirst for more. It doesn't matter if it is conflict, knowledge, money, glory, food, comfort etc... it is the focus on getting more X and better X that keeps advancement going forward.
@ethenallen13883 жыл бұрын
@@AnonEyeMouse chaos run amok.
@fredfredburger51504 жыл бұрын
Do you have a newsletter I can subscribe to?
@FlyguyDePanam7 ай бұрын
"Get the hell out of our galaxy" is the right answer to me !
@DeathclawJedi5 ай бұрын
Mr. Morden's actor was in the Pilot episode as a completely different person. I always thought it was a shame they didn't write in trope of the Evil Twin. Dude had the chops for it. He could have been a background guy that pushed to the front and the Baddie at the same time.
@TheJSpiegel7 ай бұрын
“Order versus Chaos. Choose one.”
@richtea6153 жыл бұрын
The Shadow philosophy is basically describing nature and natural order.
@dongilleo97433 жыл бұрын
Except by getting involved, they are making it unnatural. They're not just promoting growth and evolution; they're forcing it, and picking winners and losers. Left to their own fates, the various races in Babylon 5 would evolve in time in their own ways. The Shadows are pushing them to evolve in one direction; the one way they think is important.
@hazardousjazzgasm129 Жыл бұрын
No it's not, it's the same misinterpretation many social darwinists make of darwinian evolution
@Robert_Douglass2 жыл бұрын
The greatest flaw in their logic is that with or without physical conflict, there would still be sonnets, science, exploration. This is not a result of the strongest killing off the ones who are not fit to survive -- evolution sorts that out rather well without our help. It is those who can think around the need for combativeness who record the sonnets, the equations, the locations of and paths to new worlds. All conflict arises from the selfish need for control, to deny others what you wish for yourself. Does anyone think it was a battle-hardened veteran of past wars that painted the Mona Lisa, that developed the General and Special Theory of Relativity? Was it a soldier that developed the mathematical formulae that showed us that time was a function of gravity, and that gravity was a function of mass? Those things were achieved without war.
@tompearce5418 Жыл бұрын
War promotes technological innovation - but so did the Moon race.
@tsm688 Жыл бұрын
@@tompearce5418 the moon race was basically a war with less death. the GDP of entire nations burned to accomplish technological miracles.
@ethenallen13883 жыл бұрын
500 years after the events in Babylon 5 there was a second Earth Civil War which plunged humanity into a dark age it took them thousands of years to climb out of. How does the Shadows' philosophy of survival of the most violent account for that?
@ethenallen13883 жыл бұрын
@ I don't know anything about that. The war I'm referring to was mentioned in the forth season episode "Dissembling of Stars" and was between a faction that wanted to annex systems belonging to other members of the Interstellar Alliance of Free Planets and the pro Alliance people and would have taken place sometime in the 2700's. As for a dark age caused by a "Drakh Plague," an earlier scene on "Dissembling of Stars" featured a very old Deleen putting some detractors of Sheridan in their place and would have happened in the 2300''s. There was no sign that Earth was in a dark age then.
@brianwhedon84423 жыл бұрын
All the other human worlds survived. Earth was "punished" and it rebuilt and returned to the stars. That's exactly what the Shadows wanted. They survived. They became better.
@ethenallen13883 жыл бұрын
@@brianwhedon8442 Just because one extreme is bad, it doesn't mean the opposite extreme is good. It was never a case of one side being right and the other wrong. It no longer mattered who broke trust first. "Helping the younger races" was just an excuse for the Shadows as well as the Vorlons. That's why the other First Ones had withdrawn until the younger races were ready to make their stand.
@brianwhedon84423 жыл бұрын
You asked how the Shadow philosophy applied with humanity. The Shadows saw great potential in humans and viewed them as their perfect servant race. In the same way the Vorlons manipulated the Minbari. The Shadow way was not specifically violence; it was evolution at all costs. Even 500 years after the Shadows had left, humanity was still proving itself to be their true heirs.
@tonynelligan19303 жыл бұрын
no ever said growth was painless, and recall kicking over the ant hill that was the civil war.it doesn't take a minute to fix what we damaged in 4 seconds.
@cerseimystiquelaure9843 Жыл бұрын
Mr Mordern is Lord Littlefinger
@cantinman6365 Жыл бұрын
The thing is, both sides have a valid point, they just both took their philosophy to the extreme.
@cedo3333 Жыл бұрын
A philosophical moment in a SF tv show that was a great moment this one! And that's a true philosophical movement with backing evidence for this. The problem is you need to kill a lot to attain those progress. The shadows are Darwinist lool At their core that's what they say, even in an advanced civilization the right of the strongest and fittest is better than other. About the facts i was talking about, during the 2 WW, in the humanity history there was no other point of time during which the technological level increased that much. But is it moral, worth to kill billions for that? that's at the end the true question and i won't answer ^^
@Whalewraith Жыл бұрын
It would be great if they redid the CGI for this show.
@Kirpich9819 ай бұрын
В сериале заключается более глубокий смысл. Прежде всего столкновение идеологий. Это как две сверхдержавы, как например СССР и США во время холодной войны. И та и другая сторона применяли методы теней и ворлонцев. Пример северная Корея и южная, то есть сталкиваются в борьбе две идеологии. Южная Корея воюет с северной Кореей-это война, это психология теней. Но внутри этих двух стран на вершине власти преобладает психология ворлона, потому что это дисциплина, порядок и нормы правил согласных каждой идеологии. Поэтому можно сказать что тени и вороны очень хорошо дополняют друг друга и самое важное они зависят друг от друга. Сериал Вавилон 5 с очень глубоким смыслом.
@Srindal4657 Жыл бұрын
There is one flaw in this reasoning. Evolution doesn't just come from conflict. It comes from raw experience and you can have experience in just about anything. The day someone decided to make a telescope and look through it into the sky was the day that man experienced the first of many experiences. There was no conflict in that. Just curiousity. Once you know everything culture stagnates. No more curiousity. Vorlons and the shadows miss the point. It's not about identity or conflict, it's about raw experience and where it will take us. The question should be "what have you experienced?"
@benjaminjones22312 жыл бұрын
Yet they're traumatized and suspicious of all the other people around them.
@Ama-hi5kn Жыл бұрын
I believe in the evolution theory. And I realize that for humanity to evolve there are sacrifices to be made. I can only sit by the wayside an spectate. And hope I made a difference.
@daniels7907Ай бұрын
What's interesting about this is that we already see here (and it is explicitly stated later on in the series) that the Shadows (and the Vorlons) no longer really understand their own ideologies. Look at this place! Z'ha'dum, the home world of the partisans arguing for chaos and war. But this pre-Human, Lovecraftian nightmare city is extremely orderly! So are the Shadows themselves. Their plans are complex, multi-layered, and encompass innumerable details and people from entire species to individuals. They advocate conflict, but do not seem to practice it themselves. If anything, they appear to have a highly-structured society.
@haakonstenseth10 ай бұрын
Hello Shadows ☺ I am the new Q from Star Trek and you Shadows and the Vorlon and the first ones shall cease to exist hahaha 😁
@bear86963 жыл бұрын
he bought their argument so much he just had to give them a present. the gift of big explosion!
@thegreenmanofnorwich4 жыл бұрын
I always thought it was kind of dumb. The Minbari are massively more advanced than humans and would have easily destroyed humans if not for the last minute surrender. That was due to technological (and possibly numerical) advantage, not due to having evolved somehow. Wherever you have one race substantially more advanced than its opponent, the opponent race will lose; not due to failure to evolve, but due to an insurmountable technological gap
@Grahf04 жыл бұрын
They may not just be referring to biological evolution. Technology and scientific understanding also "evolves" over time. Look at the atomic weapon, biological warfare, or even things like our understanding of cold-weather exposure, many of which either came after a war, or were brought about by increasing hostilities or war. Most of the efforts relating to the examples above ramped up in many nations during World War II, even if some of them were initially conceived 20 to 30 years prior. If you consider when the first Shadow War happens, it is at a time close to when the humans of Earth are having their crusades. You can see that Minbari ships in the flashback sequences or time travel sequences are different than what the Minbari use in the present day. The amount of time between then and the present, combined with their experience fighting the Shadows, had to have had some sort of evolutionary impact in terms of their technological advances. Tactics also advance, and military doctrine also advances when a country is leading up to wartime and beyond that. The Maginot line that France settled on was completely useless when defending against the invasion from Germany's attack near the beginning of World War II. I have read various sources that stated that the tanks France had at the start of the invasion were pretty good compared to the German tanks of the time, but the way France used them made all the difference. Combine that with the call for drawing down the military by many people and constituents in France, and they were doomed to fail in fighting off the Nazi advance from the outset. If any of this is garbled or just can't be understood, I apologize. I am drunk. 🥃
@Jason9872624 жыл бұрын
True. If the technology gap had been a lot closer the outcome of the human minbari war would probably have been a stalmate negotiated peace. Technology was the only thing the Minabri had over Humanity.
@Grahf04 жыл бұрын
@@Jason987262 The Minbari also had thick skulled, boneheaded determination. Sorry. Drunk again.🥃
@hobanagerik4 жыл бұрын
Vietnam.
@crazedvole3 жыл бұрын
@@Grahf0 The irony of the Maginot line was it that it *did* work. The Germans knew they could not take it head on. So they went around it. It forced them to go through a heavy forest, knowing that there was no guarantee that the tanks would be able to make it to the other side. The Germans had to take a chance on their invasion failing from the outset because the Maginot line did what it was supposed to do. Just not in the way France hoped it would.
@SechsVerehrer3-qd9fu11 ай бұрын
Her mimic at 0:09 …chilling
@craig83994 жыл бұрын
Personality I think the shadows philosophy is correct without conflict and chaos society and technology would stagnate. But what's the end goal? When does evolution end? When do you become the superior species? (if there is such a thing)
@TomUK7374 жыл бұрын
I don't think there is an end goal, I think its like what O'Brien says in 1984 - power is not a means to an end, its an end in itself
@tompearce5418 Жыл бұрын
Technically the winning race exterminates all others.
@mostlymessingabout3 жыл бұрын
Is there a Vorlon philosophy video? Need that for perspective
@Aivottaja3 жыл бұрын
Watch the scene where Delenn and Sheridan, respectively, talk to the Shadows and Vorlons. The Vorlons basically tell Sheridan: "We know what's best for you. Why resist us? You will do as we say or die if we demand so". So yeah, they were no better than the Shadows.
@brianwhedon84423 жыл бұрын
"There is only order and obedience."
@etorres4u2 жыл бұрын
The problem with the shadows was that they used used war as an end and that would bring endless suffering and death. They did not understand that people are not ants and on an individual level people did not want to suffer or even the possibility of death and would instinctively see them as an enemy. They should have been more subtle in their approach to conflict. The Vorlons on the other hand represented an almost autocratic option in which whole species were forced into conformity to create a stale “peace”. They were just as bad as the shadows.
@tsm688 Жыл бұрын
what did the vorlons actually do in most cycles? aside from plant a few telepaths, and give stuff to the minbari, the list is very, very thin. until they go off the rails of course
@etorres4u Жыл бұрын
@@tsm688 the Vorlons represented the opposite of the shadow's chaos. They believed in a stagnant "order" with no space for growth. They worked behind the scenes to prevent any species from gaining the upper hand over another, to the extent of suppressing any species that became too powerful. This is also why they stubbornly refused to give useful information when asked. They did favor the Minbari, but only as an instrument to further their own needs as they still refused them crucial technology and information until it was absolutely necessary or they had no choice.
@tsm688 Жыл бұрын
@@etorres4u and they did this by doing what ... anything?
@etorres4u Жыл бұрын
@@tsm688 the vorlons manipulated the younger species without their realizing it. They also genetically modified many species in order to create telepaths as weapons against the shadows. While not obvious, Vorlons were just as bad as the shadows as they desired “order” at all costs. To them “order” meant everyone should do as they were told. The shadows were war and death due to chaos while the Vorlons were were “peace and order” at the cost of stagnation and collectively living a meaningless existence in a galaxy that never changes.
@dadab22 Жыл бұрын
A flaw in the shadow's philosophy is that evolution only happens through conflict. It's a common mistake, that evolution is something that happens in responce to something. However, that's not how evolution works at all. It's not a machine that starts and stops. It's constant, always happening, and never moving in a singluar, linear direction. Mutation is, afterall, random. Most importantly, evolution results in adapting to the current enviroment. By upsetting peacetimes, to intentionally manufacture conflict where it would otherwise not occur, that isn't actually promoting specialised evolutionary traits. If anything, it's actually disrupting and hindering evolution. You remove one "weaker" species, and the entire ecosystem can collapse. If the shadow actually understood evolution in practice, rather than it in theory, then they would know that the best way to encourage evolution is to do nothing.
@CRAZYUNCLE1172 жыл бұрын
The fucked up things, they're right. Proof? Look at the technological advancements made from the beginning of WW1 to the end. The introduction of hundreds of advancements, to include wireless communications and aircraft evolution. Even more is the advancement of airpower after WW2, where propeller driven aircraft became absolute in four short years. However, I can't abide by the insane loss of life that came out of the conflict. Most of which was a side effect of the conflict, not the conflict itself, and even happened long after. Sort of a butterfly effect.
@eamonnca1 Жыл бұрын
The guest actors were very hit-and-miss on this show
@TishaHayes3 жыл бұрын
See, the shadows had the right idea!
@alicemi41552 жыл бұрын
They had no idea whatsoever, otherwise they would have gained eternal bliss a long time ago. But they were as clueless as anybody else. And ugly.
@gh59022 жыл бұрын
It’s almost like the shadows knew bout those races the vorlan super gate contacted
@hydewhyte43642 жыл бұрын
Say what you like .... they're not wrong.
@EdwardTCBlake Жыл бұрын
Gone to the stars, split the atom, written sonnets. 🤦♂️
@James-hs3tu11 ай бұрын
So they like to start fights. Like a school BULLY
@The_Gallowglass3 жыл бұрын
I mean, they're right. Conflict makes us stronger. So does cooperation. Complacency and stagnation are death. How many people want to read a book or watch a tv show or movie in which there is no drama? No conflict? There are no adventures without conflict. We're all a bunch of miserable domestic sheep teetering around mediocrity.
@mobulis Жыл бұрын
Your overlooking the middle ground, competition.
@ThexBorg Жыл бұрын
Except the people in the room advocating war and blood are never the ones to fight and die.... and the Shadows are the puppet masters 🙂
@5tarasm2 жыл бұрын
Shadows' idea sounds like social darwinism. I hate that theory as I see that the rich people gathered all the resources and make most of the population suffer from poverty and hopelessness. Lots of talented young people have few chances to get better life without available education, medicine.
@censorshipsucks9493 Жыл бұрын
Hey look, it's that guy.
@timrobinson5133 жыл бұрын
Arrh! Evolution doesn't work that way!!!!! Create chaos life adapts to chaos, create order life adapts to order.
@cyrusol2 жыл бұрын
Order ain't eternal. Everything inevitably drifts towards chaos.
@magua95633 жыл бұрын
Vorlons are the nurture kinda guys who are very willing to be up the nature Shadows.
@stevengardner31922 жыл бұрын
ok these guy are nut cases
@Matej_Sojka3 жыл бұрын
Problem is they do not know when to stop. How long they did this? How many races survived them? They have few client races like Drakh, but every older race is few in number and hiding from them. Minbari survived last war, but they would not survive next cycle. They remembered too much. Same problem with Vorlons, any deviation from their intended order of things is dangerous for the race involved. There is no accident in the fact that Minbari have a cast system and obedience is required.
@tompearce5418 Жыл бұрын
Also the Minbari were a deeply conservative race who frowned on dissent and preferred isolation to interaction.
@seanwieland9763Ай бұрын
After all, it’s not that awful. You know what the fellow said - in Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.
@AbuMaia0112 күн бұрын
But did they have Michaelangelo, da Vinci, and the Renaissance, BECAUSE of warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed? Or in spite of it?
@haakonstenseth10 ай бұрын
Excuse me I got a warning that one of my comments was removed for violating the rules on KZbin, but I add a link from a website contains only about Babylon 5 and is that a crime?
@johnpauljones93102 жыл бұрын
The Shadows are Darwinians.
@orius03 Жыл бұрын
Something tells me that Justin likes omelets.
@Nonsensei4362 жыл бұрын
"Some are lost along the way". Yeah and then there's the ones the Shadows exterminate, like the Markab. Hey Shadows, how are the Markab supposed to evolve when faced with a disease that is 100% contagious and 100% fatal?
@tsm688 Жыл бұрын
cultural change should have saved them. still a shitty thing to do.
@TomUK7377 ай бұрын
I dont think it was ever implied that the Shadows killed the Markab - the Dratha plague could have been native to their world
@Nonsensei4367 ай бұрын
With the shadows active in the galaxy, an ancient plague suddenly resurfaces without explanation? Just the knowledge that the shadows are out there manipulating the younger races is implication enough.
@MuscleboySV Жыл бұрын
The fatal flaw with the Shadow philosophy, from what I'm seeing, is that they think evolution NEEDS a servant.
@luangu Жыл бұрын
Darwin approves.
@TangomanX20082 жыл бұрын
I wonder to what extent did Nienuhr's Christian Realism influence the lore of Babylon 5?
@debravalreyes20334 жыл бұрын
Devide and conquer
@haakonstenseth9 ай бұрын
Ed Wasser (Morden) are you quite sure what you are saying about The Shadows? 😁
@robwalsh9843 Жыл бұрын
What do you want? vs. Who are you?
@puncherdavis97273 жыл бұрын
I think this is what the democratic party thinks like. In fact I am pretty dam sure of it. Ain't their a song called inch by inch?
@Hammerhead1372 жыл бұрын
So why haven't we pulled a Za'ha'dum on them yet?
@tsm688 Жыл бұрын
have you ever tried asking a democrat what they think, instead of telling them what they think?
@gregstewart50812 жыл бұрын
Its the sonnets
@sarashellsing3 жыл бұрын
who ever wrote this scene never studied evolution then again the shadows lost their way long ago so that kind of makes sense
@Janoha173 жыл бұрын
The point was that both the Shadows and the Vorlons had gotten so caught up in fighting each other that not only did they fail as First Ones in guiding the younger species, they don't even understand why they're fighting anymore.
@sparrowlt3 жыл бұрын
the problem is that the shadows did had a point.. unpleasant and morally wrong but a working point.. The Earth Alliance grew in power and achievments with its 3 main conflicts (Dilgar war, Minbari war and civil war) while the Centauri had lied dormant without conflicts that they reeceded until the second Narn war where they kicked back at power.. and the Minbari were the most powerfull but had been on a whole different level for centuries and had not moved much from there (as they were on the top).. same for the Narn who went from a small pacific relativy low tech culture to a large warring empire in the span of their planet ocupation due to fighting the Centauri
@victorselve83493 жыл бұрын
Well Evolution has nothing to do with this, it is a natural process independent of intelligent thought. This is philosophy. Wherever conflict increases the rate of progress in a society and if the pain and suffering resulting are worth it, that is philosophy. A difference of opinion. Evolution acts on those who fight, it acts on those that work together in perfect harmony without a shroud of conflict. It doesn't have a goal or a cause. It doesn't strive for progress or regress, it wouldn't even understand the concept.
@dalethelander37813 жыл бұрын
I'm pretty sure JMS has a handle on evolution.
@Mark-xh8md3 жыл бұрын
You want to know the worst part? The Mr. Morden has a point: Nothing has driven human civilization forward, like the myriad of wars we've had. No, I don't support the Shadows!!! But one has to give credit where it's due.
@dongilleo97433 жыл бұрын
There a scene from some movie that I can't remember the title of, but it talks to this. The character goes on and on about all of the inventions and technology that have been invented and developed because of war. Then he mentions that Switzerland has been at peace for five hundred years, and suggests the only thing the swiss have invented was the cuckoo clock. But given the choice, many would chose to live in Switzerland. It's a peaceful, prosperous, safe place. They get the best of both worlds: all the inventions and technology available, and peace and tranquility.
@Unit-34755 жыл бұрын
OMG ! JUST LEAVE US ! ALONE !
@drewx102 жыл бұрын
Thanos, the Shadows, and Fascist went to the same school of philosophy.
@cartoonking4613 жыл бұрын
Its just tv folks
@Da40kOrks4 жыл бұрын
Broken window fallacy.
@HarPlayer3 жыл бұрын
It was a game 2 them. The Vorlans n Shadow's. Also they want 2 try there new weapons they think it's up 2 them how Races Evolve !!!!!!!
@robertjackson35523 жыл бұрын
shadows war is good for business vorlons Peace is goo for business
@cyrusol2 жыл бұрын
Ferengi rule of acquisition no. 34: war is good for business Ferengi rule of acquisition no. 35: peace is good for business Ferengi are clearly way ahead of Vorlons and Shadows.
@francisshortjr2 жыл бұрын
Evolution 🙄
@hawkstringfellow Жыл бұрын
Hes right but its crazy todo it on a massive Galactica scale
@HappyHands.3 жыл бұрын
I feel like the old guy used to sell pillows in a past life