Writing Morally Ambiguous Characters | Writing Tips

[@And-ur6ol]

Two simple rules. 1) You can't write characters that everyone will love. Just accept that. 2) If you really want characters to be loved, have multiple characters that varies and appeal to different people.

[@N.Traveler]

Shaelin: "I feel like most morally ambiguous characters are actually just heroes with sarcasm." Me: Looking at you Deadpool...

[@j.kallai4348]

the big-screen version of him

[@headphoneshq6032]

@@JD-te6zc You're right. Deadpool is pretty messed up

[@headphoneshq6032]

@Alfredo Zachary bot

[@billyalarie929]

@@EventualWarlord yeahhhhhh yep the comic version is a straight mf at times. real vicious.

[@boxcarhobo7017]

'Writing morally corrupted women is my mission in life.' And instantly, your most anticipated written work will be your future memoir.

[@Mikeztarp]

Breaking Bad really is a masterclass on morally ambiguous characters and subtext. The progression from mild-mannered chemistry teacher to "I am the one who knocks" is fascinating.

[@kristopherhayes1957]

But that was more of a corruption story where the main character starts with a truth of some sort and then ends in a lie.

[@kiracarver988]

I also want to add that your points are much more fleshed-out than I typically see from videos like this. I have such a bone to pick with creators who, say, mention a point, and then explain the point only by rearranging their phrasing like two or three times. "Bland characters are something to avoid. A character without layers is not what readers want to spend time on. You HAVE to develop your characters, or people will get bored". As an example haha.

[@gloop7458]

That's such a thing I do when I'm writing comments or anything that I'm not going to edit. The thing is: Autism I don't know how to phrase things so that people will understand, because while I just take words as their literal definition without any social connotation or anything, a lot of people will add a bunch of meanings to words that are purely based on their own experiences, and while a lot of people can intuitively understand them because they come from the same culture and they have prescribed the same very subjective meaning, because I simply don't do that, I don't know what landmines I'm stepping on and where misunderstandings will arise So I always either under explain or over explain. I under explain when I either have faith that they won't misunderstand (usually after I've spent a lot of time in autistic communities because they just do) or I just don't want to write an essay. This almost always results in a misunderstanding because someone had a personal definition that corrupted the message Other times, I overexplain because if I say this one thing in one thousand different ways, surely, even if I step on one landmine, most of the ways I explained it made it through and because it's 1 against 999, they'll forget about the one and understand what I mean (and occasionally, the person will pick a fight with the 1 and forget the 999 but most of the time it works but people get annoyed at my wordiness) Not trying to argue with you or critique what you said. It's just the saying it in so many different ways resonated and I wanted to share

[@M3LTH3GAY]

One of My oc's flaws is lying to protect people. She lies about her secret identity to everyone besides her coworkers. The flaw stemmed from her dad lying to her to protect her from the truth, and like the two of her parents doing that, but when that backfired on her dad, she didn't realize how hypocritical she was being keeping that flaw.

[@xRaiofSunshine]

Zuko. That’s it, that’s the comment.

[@ShaelinWrites]

valid !!

[@BoneheadGirl_]

I'll have to respectfully, yet ADAMANTLY disagree.

[@gloop7458]

@@BoneheadGirl_ Oh? Explain

[@Gummy_Pop.]

Honouuuurrr!!!

[@dibbi3237]

Theyre still trying to think up a way to justify their disagreement ​@gloop7458

[@kiracarver988]

I think a good way to look at one of your first points is to see the reaction of the "Han Shot First" retcon. The original version of Han was morally ambiguous to the point that many fans of A New Hope were disgusted that he shot someone for personal gain. Yet, when this was actually changed, just as many people were outraged about the lessening of Han's dimension as a character. You're not gonna make everyone happy. You can't. What matters is that your characters are believable, and to accomplish that, fulfilling traits is necessary.

[@somedorkydude6483]

Edit:this comment needed proof reading so i updated it I personally think the shot first thing is a over dramatacized. In the real world if somebody points a gun at you with the with the intention to harm you or take you prisoner its self defense. No court would consider killing greedo in any context as not justified. Han is somebody who perceives himself as a bad guy and a realist but in reality he is nothing short of desprate and only sees what is infront of him. The reason Han was about to abbanon Leia until he found out she has money was simple he didnt beleive in the rebelion and its future. The reason they changed it to han shooting second was unnecesary to be honest. That being said i just think it looks silly. It doesnt chsnge anything aboutbhans charater. He is a bad guy because he needed to change his perspective on life. We can't talk about the special edition but the Han shot first thing is actually not worth complaining about imo

[@somedorkydude6483]

I realized how poorly written my first comment was so i updated it and tl;dr Han shooting greedo was always justified. He had a gun to his face in the real world thats called a threat. Greedo explicitly was going to sell his life to a gangster The real silliness of greedo shooting first is how the change looks akward and looks like somebody edited in a blooper.

[@sarabaptistaart]

I had an eureka moment when you said that flaws should come from worldview and not from a mere adjective! Thank you Shaelin!

[@zetaforever4953]

I've found that a good way to write authentic flawed characters is to draw from my own experiences or emotions. So for instance, the two protagonists of my last novel were, respectively, very manipulative and very stubborn. These are both things that I have been myself, at different points in my life, though not to the extent that they are. Another way is to make their flaws and virtues stem from the same character trait. For instance, the stubborn character is an extremely determined person who'd move heaven and earth to achieve his goals, but that determination also makes him blinkered and unable to see any other paths, once he's decided on a course of action. The character trait is the same, it's just the situation that makes it a virtue or a flaw.

[@ShaelinWrites]

Great tips, thanks for sharing!

[@elisa4620]

Exactly. I even started to make a list of character traits (both "virtues" and "flaws") and write how they could drive positively or negatively characters.

[@zetaforever4953]

@@elisa4620 it's all about the situation, really. To give an obvious example, being an extrovert would be a virtue in a sales job and a vice in a remote accounting job. The character trait is the same, just the situation that makes it a good thing or a bad thing

[@elisa4620]

@@zetaforever4953 I know, right! I've always thought that context makes all the difference :)

[@SysterYster]

The "interesting" part made me think of Black Sails. A short series about pirates. It was a bit hard for me to watch at first, because we're kinda used to having someone to root for, someone that's in one way or another "better" than the rest. But in Black Sails, that person doesn't exist. You have straight and gay, you have thieves, you have murderers, you have liars and schemers, and backstabbing bastards. But not a single one of them are all good, none of them are free of at least one evil/immoral trait. Which made them all rather interesting, it also made it hard to know how things were going to go. Very interesting.

[@eldunari0291]

this was very helpful! my current project is focused on a morally ambiguous character. i’m hoping i can use some of these tips to improve my work :)

[@thedangerousivy]

Mine is too but my story isn’t that good

[@ShaelinWrites]

Hope it helps!

[@victorthurse6027]

I have a perfect way to test audience reaction to a morally ambiguous character. That is storytelling tabletop role-playing. Would the players continue to maintain an alliance with this character after they discover their darker side? You can also learn by playing. Who would you be willing to ally with in order to achieve your character's goals?

[@monywrmtailpadfotprngs6985]

Write people, not characters.

[@dennisbiesma]

Sorry Frodo

[@frostchaotic3691]

Ah, a fellow maurauder

[@crowleyhamill]

Who is your favourite marauder? I'm stuck between... Remus, Sirius, Peter and James :/ (Sorry I have met like no one else who knows who they are, and I want to know other opinions)

[@Reiiven]

@@crowleyhamill I mean you weren’t asking me but I found a fellow marauders fan… Remus is the best in my opinion, he has the werewolf angst, he was passive but still way nicer than the others when they were younger and a good kinda mentor character to Harry :)

[@jakebishop7822]

Just to be clear even if you aren't interested in writing morally ambiguous characters you should still watch Breaking Bad.

[@devanshigupta7567]

YES.

[@theunstablewoki6022]

Now I wanna watch that

[@somedorkydude6483]

​​@@theunstablewoki6022 Curious if you saw it and if you did How was it its been a year. Also bcs is just as good if you get past season 1 I like bcs and there are momments where it surpasses breaking bad but season 1 is basically the wtf do we do season to give them credit they do a decent job at hiding it but the writters behind the scene had no clue what to do outside of jimmy and chuck I want to keep things spoiler free just in case

[@trinity3272]

I feel like I always make my characters too nice and they tend not to argue much or do nasty things. Idk I like nice people Haha but I feel like I should try this out

[@archaeologydad3761]

There's also nothing wrong with writing characters who are good, nice, pleasant people. If that's your style then go for it! Those stories are important too!

[@ginge641]

A lot of mine tend to be very confrontational, regardless of moral leaning. The paragon will call people out on their dodgy ethics. The anti-hero will chew someone out for not being pragmatic.

[@natyboops]

My characters are all really good friends, but there has to be some kind of conflict. Two of the main characters are best friends, but there's some conflict there as to race, secrets that can't be shared, bossiness and temper tantrums. Dig deep into the characters and you'll find the conflicts. Think about your best friends, aren't there some things that just drive you crazy about them?

[@jonathanolivares4040]

I'm more into write flawful characters, also they tend to do a lot of nasty and "evil" things.

[@elisa4620]

I think you can have both. More often than not, there is more than one character in a story. And depending on your plot you can put nice characters in situations where their moral code is challenged. People can be genuinely nice and not realize that some of the things they do or say are harmful. I LOVE nice people too. But I also LOVE characters that are morally ambiguous and navigate a thin line between good and bad.

[@jeremiahblackman7421]

EXACTLY! This video was awesome! Another really wonderful morally ambiguous character that just fires on every level is Howard (Adam Sandler) from Uncut Gems. Almost every character is incredibly ambiguous, the movie is a masterclass on characterization, but Howard specifically is a good example of everything you got into here

[@douglasphillips5870]

This helped me with something I'm working on. In my case the character isn't morally ambiguous, but morally at odds with the other characters

[@schleepy6362]

This video... was a GODSEND. For the longest time, my character wasn't feeling right and my story was NOT making sense. This made me realize I was trying too hard to punish my character for one "bad" choice she made, AND trying too hard to excuse it through that sappy backstory you were talking about. And yes, I WAS overly concerned about making my character likeable. I think after seeing this video, a morally grey character is going to fit my story SO much better.

[@ZephyrWrites]

This completely changed my perspective of not only what moral ambiguity MEANS, but also how... they work, if that makes sense? Anyway, this was such an informative video, I love how you go so in-depth into your points. (unrelated, but I also love how you often provide examples. it helps a lot!)

[@KeikoMushi]

I keep thinking back to "Saul Goodman" when I watch this video. As for pen and paper game alignment systems, the closest that I can think of that includes complex alignments is Palladium. Principled (Good), Scrupulous (Good), Unprincipled (Selfish), Anarchist (Selfish), Aberrant (Evil), Diabolic (Evil) and Miscreant (Evil). Feel free to read the overview of these alignments to get a break-down of how they interact with the world around them and their internal attitude to their place within it.

[@handlessderpface7307]

I’m going on a binge for these. I listen to them in the background like a podcast as I stare into my vacant word document. Quarantine’s killed my creativity. And I just flumped a writing contest. But thank you for rekindling my passion for writing!

[@Phsousa-fc8qg]

Amazing video, it's so good to see a character that i love the most fit close to every single positive point or tips to how to do. Eren Jager from Attack on Titan just hits so many of those, he almost is my base to study this subject

[@deez8190]

Not even half a minute into the video, and i already love this woman cause our goals align! Morally corrupt women are reason why i even write ✊ now imma binge watch all of your videos.

[@imaginativebibliophile549]

Shaelin, I was a part of a writing workshop this week. I wrote and edited a short story, The Charms of the Land of Far. Today was the last day of the workshop and I learned so much about writing vividly. I definitely want to explore morally ambiguous characters in my writing because they are crafted in a completely different way. Most characters that are morally ambiguous are unreliable narrators. I love how the protagonist can have multiple layers to its character. I write so ardently because it is my life purpose. I love you

[@TheRadBaron]

i don't really comment on videos, but even on a channel with so much extremely good advice, this video stands out as exceptional. i'm only commenting here so that this shows up in more people's recommendations. this should be essential viewing for people trying to write morally ambiguous characters

[@DorothyOzmaLover]

So interesting to learn you like writing ambiguous characters since they're intriguing by doing unexpected things. As an instrumental guitar composer who composes/performs music for characters like that, I liked hearing your thoughts about one not worrying about others perceptions in order to convey a story which is important as a writer and as one of the musicians who are focusing on representing stories/characters with original music, i've also come to this realization so it was nice to hear you also convey that idea. Also, I find its quite fun committing to ambiguous characters since special representations, ideas, and music result from this mindset that are different than what results from just representing clear cut "good" characters. Some of my most unique musical art resulted from committing to ambiguous characters which I'd guess story writers who also commit to such characters might find similar results and could even have fun representing those types of characters. You have great thoughts from a writer's standpoint and thanks for sharing!

[@restoredtuna8264]

Currently writing a “morally ambiguous” character, a woman in a fantasy setting who had her young sister stolen. The idea is that she does some awful things to get her back. And weather or not she was right to do those things is up to the reader. This has been very helpful, thank you. In my first drafts my character felt off. I was thinking in needed her to be less of a stand in for the reader and more of someone with real choices to make. My idea has changed from “she does awful things to find her” to more of a goal based character. Her ONE true goal is to find and rescue her sister, nothing else matters to her, she may let people die, or manipulate them for her goals. Meaning that if a character falls into the wrong situation, they could die because of her goal, or she could even put some random person in a bad situation and not care. She would have favourites among the characters based on their usefulness or connection to her sister, but none are more important to her than this goal. as long as that character trait is maintained, no character will ever feel truly safe.

[@WritingWithMilesKhoury]

Great video! Most of my characters are morally ambiguous for the very reason it makes them more realistic and relatable. We all have flaws and imo reading scripts or books with the “perfect” protagonist kinda just makes me roll my eyes

[@HellsMirror]

I love writing morally ambiguous characters, I only have to remind myself not to use too many of them in a single story

[@girlypopgay]

The characters in better call Saul are so good. None of them are good. None of them are bad. But there’s conflict between them all. It’s so good.

[@e.mchristina5260]

I know this character is from a tv show not a book but in my opinion he is one of the best Morally ambiguous characters. He is ‘Ivar The Boneless’ from the Tv show ‘Vikings.’ He is the son of the most famous Viking Ragnar and his brothers are great warriors and all achieve great things. Ivar was born with a disability that caused his legs not to work so he has to crawl everywhere. As the seasons go on his actions and beliefs get more extreme as he uses his flaw of not having Working legs in a time that was so tough and uses that to work on his mind and become one of the most cunning and intelligent people on the show. Long story short, he believes bending others to his will makes him more powerful to fill the void of not having working legs. Throughout the show he does terrible things like leaving his own son to die in the forest because his son was also born with deformed legs and you would expect him to sympathize with the child but then does the opposite and kills the child. Yet in the final season when he befriends this young boy, he stops being his narcissistic, violent self and actually loves and cares for the boy whilst trying to get his kingdom back. I didn’t do him justice trying to explain him there but he is in my opinion one the best morally grey characters.

[@slushbee]

I really enjoyed this video because I’m writing a story where my main character is sort of accidentally morally ambiguous and now I just want to accentuate that :)

[@theunwantedbookclub8823]

I think it's important to practice ambiguity through characters. I notice a lot of writers tend to put their own worldview in the characters to make it 'personal', but it comes off biased. Like it's not about agree or disagree, but right vs. wrong= no exception. Moral arguments shouldn't be polarized against one side, but there should be some representation on both sides in order to allow the reader to agree or disagree with the characters instead of being lectured or discriminated against for their own differing beliefs.

[@johnjordan211]

Everyone has their characters hold the same opinion if the point is that they are heroes and good people that's how it works

[@johnjordan211]

No they shouldn't. If a writer dossagrees with something something are not required to pretend both opinions are equal and put them as such that is literally impossible to write

[@johnjordan211]

Disingenuous as hell and garbage

[@recoveringintrovert717]

I love Hannibal Lector for this reason. He is inexcusable, and he doesn't excuse himself either. But he helps Clairice and stands up for her because she's helpless in a man's world. He teaches her to be a predator like him. Makes him so nuanced

[@reese6001]

This was so eye opening. It’s really changed how I’m thinking of my characters

[@Wulfbloode]

I'm writing a story with a morally ambiguous main female character, and this is so timely. Just the past week I had a struggle accepting the role of simps and of morally ambiguous women. It's such a challenge to navigate.

[@selfimprovement5873]

Hey Shaelin If I may, I have an idea! A video on how to write a villain or a morally ambiguous character *without* backstory ever being revealed.

[@waffles5238]

When she talked about giving a character a traumatic backstory as a way to explain a character’s cruel behavior it made me think through one of my own characters After thinking it over I came to the conclusion it wasn’t the same thing because my character crosses the line, but in an attempt to prevent other people from going through the same thing he did

[@justluc8556]

Your videos are all so helpful and inspiring and I’m so grateful for ur platform omg. I love that I can reference your videos in my critique group and just stan them all the time lol

[@ShaelinWrites]

That fact you reference my videos in your critique group Warms My Heart

[@rowanclevely6789]

"Nice person I'd like to hang out with them' Its dead to us- we're not even going to worry about it" Shaelin you are INCREDIBLE

[@haileyn2862]

Love this! I‘m writing a novel right now with two morally ambiguous characters, your advice is really helpful, thanks!

[@letsdirect2769]

I have written a screenplay that I will be self-producing and directing next year. It took me like five drafts to get to this point to where the two leads have differing worldview that lead to internal and external consequences. It took a long time to get my story to that point, but I knew it when I had it. Thank you for this, Shealin!

[@maya-gur695]

I'm always a little bit jealous of you when I read your stories, because you write morally gray characters so well! *morally gray characters! Not children! Autocorrect lol

[@haloum]

a morally gray child is a very interesting idea tho lol

[@bogih21]

@@haloum I know this comment is really old, buuut I think you'd love Bug from The lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch.

[@TheAquamarine4]

This really hits on why I love these anti-heroes or morally ambiguous people. THEY MAKE US FEEL! Like a goody too shoes can be relatable too and there’s a place for that but those characters aren’t the ones that help me grow and question my sanity, unless they refuse to act because they won’t break rules then I want to shove them and that’s also me feeling. And villains don’t make people feel either unless they refuse to do something too, because most of the bad guys are known as ruthless, but it’s the people who fluctuate and aren’t always ruthless or calm that make us cry, laugh, cringe, just plain old keep reading.

[@mariamcdonald973]

Timely! Thank you. Honestly, the energy and down to earthiness of your videos has really sustained me through this draft.

[@phangkuanhoong7967]

Great vid! Though personally, my favourite examples of this in terms of TV shows are actually The Sopranos, which has an entire cast of morally ambiguous characters, and The Shield, which has a corrupt cop protagonist. I'd also recommend the Korean crime drama movie Asura: City of Madness.

[@makeevaevgenia8825]

I like the point you made about not judging the character! I do that too! It helps to change skin while writing. When I write sometimes I switch in between my characters I change skin between antagonist and protagonist a lot , try to feel what they feel if you know what I mean

[@nocturnus009]

YES to all of this! About the consequences gameplay: that might be a result of the code era of Hollywood studios. There is a lot we can learn from the cinema (Yeah, the 15 beat structure is great & there is a reason that video that comes up when you search is important, he says as he reached the 56% point of Jessica Brody's book!) The lessons we should not take from Hollywood is the code era & the restrictions that lead to some great Noir movies to counter some unnecessary handcuffs to storytellers. John Hess over at Filmmaker IQ has some good background information. I think the result of generations of storytelling promoting the lie that bad actions need to result in bad consequences is the rise of Presidents that have never dealt with consequences & accountability being a foreign concept... Like 6 Bankruptcies before 70 years of life. Belated Happy Canada Day, glad to share a Continent, there is just a lot of work ahead to, "Stand on guard for thee!"

[@ShaelinWrites]

Cool point about Hollywood, I didn't know that!

[@nocturnus009]

ShaelinWrites this is John Hess’ video on the censorship issue... kzbin.info/www/bejne/j5_JaXWjm8yDqq8 In general your starting point is the Hays Code: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Picture_Production_Code

[@melodid5023]

Thank you shaelin :) great video as usual. I'm in such a bad writing slump right now it's super frustrating and your video got me motivated a bit. I'll TRY to write know. Hopefully it goes well...

[@lovelyheylelle]

You honor, the judge Michael Desiato who is also played by Bryan Cranston. I absolutely love his character I think he’s also a perfect example

[@kashthetrashman]

Dang this is really helpful for the characters that I’m developing. Preciate it

[@ShaelinWrites]

Glad it helped :)

[@TheVeyZ]

Im writing a survival horror story about a young woman who is morally ambiguous. She's a coward in most of her actions but believes what she does is justifiable in order to survive. The story is basically a journey for this character to learn about her flaws and how her belief, while somewhat right in order to survive, was morally wrong, and she could've taken better moral route to accomplish it.

[@xoxolilyartfilms]

This is going to be so helpful for my camp nano project-thanks for making this video Shaelin!

[@WhiskeyBlack777]

Also I think that AHS: Hotel did this to perfection with all of those characters. It's probably why I binge it at least twice a year.

[@selfimprovement5873]

Could you do more videos on dark themes in storytelling? Your perspective on this subject was alone was quite fun!

[@ruriva4931]

3:36 I felt that, I always feel the need to make excuses for my characters. So I just stopped trying to write morally ambiguous.

[@Anesthesia069]

I really like the "worldview, not actions" tip! Now the only trouble I need to overcome is thinking of some maladaptive worldviews! Trying to come up with one makes me less likely to think of one!

[@evensongmodesto4463]

I learn so much from your tutorials. Apologize for not msg you sooner. I've been a fan for about two years.

[@joonfanatic2140]

There were some tips that I found useful here, thank you for the video! 😁

[@oliviacanady8669]

This came at the perfect time! Thanks!!

[@shamashezadi]

Your passion for morally ambiguous characters shines through this video especially when you used the B word! LOL! Love it!

[@writingthewrong5376]

The title. We fucking love to see it!

[@elisa4620]

This was very interesting. You made many good points. But I wonder about your point when you talk about the character's backstory. I feel that it is more complicated than that. While I agree that it doesn't excuse their wrongdoings, it is still a good way to explain why they are the way they are. When well done, I don't think it is cheap at all. Traumas are often the origin of a lot of maladaptive and/or morally ambiguous (or outright evil) behaviors. It creates twisted belief systems that are deep-rooted and hard to acknowledge and then equally as hard to change. Said behavioral patterns almost always end up being self-destructive in a way or another. Things you talked about in a positive way earlier in the video ... And it happens a lot in real life. I know people who developed big issues (including mental illness) because of traumatic events in their childhood. And I think it is important to talk about it. It also can raise questions: if the characters are the way they because of what they went through, do they or not deserve a second chance? Should we condemn them or should we give them an environment that could help them heal and change? Isn't the society/system/people that made them like this also to blame? etc.

[@ShaelinWrites]

I think this is kind of the point I was making. I wasn't trying to say that you *can't* include trauma or some kind of complex backstory for your villain, in fact many times it adds necessary and interesting context and texture to explore their backstory in this way. The point I was going for was just that if their backstory is simplified into a "trauma happened therefore they are evil" narrative, without the needed nuance, it can really cheapen the trauma and make it seem like a plot device, since trauma responses are more complex than this.

[@brinleyowens2551]

I tend to find morally ambiguous characters that don't have ANY views that I do annoying...but if theres one that has at least one relatable, if selfish or wrong, belief that I relate to, I will read them any day

[@wfleming537]

The character development in Breaking Bad achieved this very well Walt is a great example of moral ambiguity

[@ShaelinWrites]

One of the best imo!

[@liliana.9929]

I have to say, this seems like a really ironic choice of words to describe a morally ambiguous character 😆

[@ShuyiNMetroiD]

that a villian had to be punished by the end of the film was forced by the 'hays code' from the 1930's to 60's. similar guidlines were applied for comics (CCA) up until very recently.

[@vinod.kaul.maverick]

We all have flaws and all fictional characters brought out of the background to play a slightly bigger role must have them. Again a flaw is relative. We usually think of a flaw in terms of the author's perspective but it is in relation to the reader and this perspective will keep varying. The way to handle this is to surface inconsistencies and incongruities and the resultant controversies become food for thought with varying perspectives.

[@bishfish7726]

Loved this video! Morally ambiguous characters are my favorite kinds of characters. Can we get that list of your favorite books with morally ambiguous characters, though? It's not in the description lol

[@LithiaSinclair]

Dazai and Chuuya from bungou stray dogs are probably some of my favourite examples of likeable but morally ambiguous characters.

[@mirandaosmelak480]

Lolita by Nabokov -- great choice for morally ambiguous characters, not one, I'd go as far as saying that at least two.

[@recoveringintrovert717]

Bro's a pedophile. Even if he kills that dude in the end, he's still horrible. He ruined Dolores' life.

[@heyheyronn]

I'll be that guy that contests you in the comments! I'd say Elliot Alderson from MR ROBOT could go toe-to-toe with Walter "The Danger" White. Elliot is so wonderfully well written that at first, you may not realize how severely his skewed worldview drives him sometimes a little too far. Though, I do say this having not seen Breaking Bad. But I'm watching it next and I can't wait! If you haven't seen Mr Robot, I highly recommend it. Thanks for the video! Perfect timing, as I'm trying to dive into my characters a bit more to figure out where to take them. One of my antagonists is giving me trouble. He's one of those used-to-be-a-good-guy types and I'm trying to make his backstory understandable. This was super insightful!

[@ShaelinWrites]

I haven't seen Mr Robot but cool to hear about it!

[@pauline_f328]

19:50 While I was watching this, I kept pausing the video to reflect upon my character. I was eventually overcome with sadness upon realizing just how bad this could all end for her - and this for the first time after 6 years of working on her (she's my first successful character, which explains why I've been at it for so long) I was busy wondering whether she would actually get a happy end when the overall plot of my interconnected books ends And then you said that thing about suddenyl feeling sad for your character and I was like 😳

[@Jerry.Bingham]

Insights on point as always. Well done.

[@SysterYster]

I think the reason bad actions more often than not get consequences in books and movies is because it's comforting to think that the bad ones will get their due. You know. It's comforting to see the murderer get behind bars, and the rapist killed, and the bully get beaten down, and such things. It's that whole revenge thing. And if they don't get their due, something has to teach them a lesson to see the error of their ways, making them good. I think this is popular because it feels better that way. We know it's not like that in real life, but it's how we'd want real life to be, right? Making the characters more realistic and having them get away with things is more depressing I suppose. Even if it is more realistic. :P

[@chrisrudolf9839]

True. I think the most important difference to reality is that the outcome has to mean something to the reader, be it satisfying, shocking, funny, surprising in a good way, there has to be something that makes the story worthwhile to be told. Shitty person does some shitty things, gets away with it and lives happily (and shitty) ever after tends to be not a meaningful story, even though or maybe even because it often happens in real life. Something remarkable has to happen in your story. This can be the bad person suffering consequences for the bad things he has done and/or beeing redeemed. It doesn't have to be, though, there are other possibilities. I think the ending of "Basic instinct" can be a good example how you can flash readers/viewers with a bad guy winning, whithout having said bad guy suffer consequences or redeeming him (I won't elaborate here for spoilers, those who know the movie will very likely get what I mean).

[@SysterYster]

It's funny how giving traumatic backgrounds for villains and anti-heroes somehow explains them, when in real life, many are acting badly because their parents are bad. Not abusive necessarily, but bad as in; they let their kids get away with everything, they excuse their kids' bad behaviour by blaming others, etc, enforcing said bad behaviours into a world-belief that they are always right, and others are always wrong. Creating evil people, if you will. That's quite enough. Then, of course, some are born bad. They have some disturbance that makes them lack empathy, they hear voices or something. Then we have life, bad friends, bad circumstances. There are so many ways to create bad characters. Yet, so many just use the "abusive childhood" thing.

[@prometheus200]

A morally ambiguous character is one that does selfless things through selfish means

[@monywrmtailpadfotprngs6985]

Honestly, my grey(fuck off autocorrect. I don’t mean gay) characters are basically just Slytherins/carbon copies of Draco Malfoy.

[@lordofthunder4065]

So, how would I write the difference between "I'm selfish" and "I believe that all people will take what they can and run, so I have to protect what I have"?

[@andresmartinezramos7513]

"I only care about my own well being other's be damned" vs "I don't want people to screw“ mw over""

[@gaz0428]

I'm currently working on a series that follows a group of vampires. I'm not going out of my way to make them morally ambiguous but there are a few of them that have not problem with killing and some that get enjoyment from it.

[@saraheliselong1298]

Dara from City of Brass comes to mind ✨ 100% read on because of his flaws in a big way

[@phictionofgrandeur2387]

I haven't seen breaking bad, so I don't know who Walter White is outside of the memes... And I STILL agree with you that he's morally ambiguous.

[@haloum]

you look so beautiful here omg ♡(u always do but still)

[@yellowtowels118]

Shaelin is glowing today!!

[@adrikamondal5186]

Hello Shaelin! I have taken all the character development courses from Reedsy. I learned varied lessons, which are bound to enhance my writings. I read your short story: CHERRY AND JANE IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN You really are an amazing writer. I learned many things from your videos and from Reedsy. Your constant help influence me become a better author. I strive for perfection. You really are a wonder! Heaps of love😘 ~Adrika

[@ShaelinWrites]

That is so sweet of you to say, thank you!

[@annemarieke2002]

This was a very interesting and helpful video! I view my main character as kind of morally ambiguous, but he might as well just be immoral for a huge part of the story. My main character is kind of a fascist, so his actions are a consequence of his world view. The reason why he became radicalized in the first place, is because he thinks that society has become too individualistic, he feels like he doesn't belong anywhere, and he wants his country to return to former greatness. His time in the military also influences his views. It makes him believe that all of society should kind of be like that: disciplined and collectivist. But another influence on his views is his gullibility. He believes propaganda quite easily. His hatred of the people he perceives as the enemies of his country's greatness make him violent and eventually murderous. However, he does always rationalize all the violence that he does. Because of his fanaticism and his gullibility, he soon gets a place in the inner circle of the leader of this radical movement. This leader, who later becomes the dictator once they win the civil war, takes advantage of the MC's gullibility, but also admires encourages his fanaticism. Their 'friendship' becomes quite toxic. Once MC has his place in the inner circle, he is determined to not disappoint the leader (and lose his place, or worse). His denial of the truth, which is that the dictator does things that cannot be condoned or rationalized (to say the very least) and that the MC should at least try to stop this, becomes his demise.

[@darlalathan6143]

Very good but he sounds like a villain. For a military antihero, I would have him doing "Stripes" on-base and "The Hangover-meets-Eyes Wide Shut" behavior on his shore leaves, lol.

[@andresmartinezramos7513]

That does sound like a straight up fascist. Not a person I would classify as morally gray but rather straight up condemnable.

[@rhett-says-hullo4229]

My favorite morally ambiguous character is Julian Blackthorn from the Dark Artifices series

[@genderlesscryptid5764]

I think the most fun thing about writing morally ambiguous characters is making them a person that does horrible things and still having the viewer want them to succeed. (Bojack Horseman is amazing at this)

[@paulapoetry]

Great subject and tips - thank you. 😃👍💖💝

[@Rozitaaah]

This video is coming at a very fitting time for me because I'm currently reading Vicious by VE Schwab and the two protagonists (protagoni??) are both what I believe to be 'morally gray' in a sense but in almost inverted ways. One believes what they're doing is 'for the greater good' and they use that to justify their actions, but what they're actually doing is objectively very iffy (murder) and very not necessary at all and only justified by their skewed sense of justice. Whereas the other is aware that what they're doing is mostly for revenge and isn't striving to do good or be good at all, and instead does what is necessary to furthering their personal cause, and yet is causing significantly less harm than the other (protagonist). I don't really have a point with this, that was mostly just an excuse for me to feel unga bunga big brain by pointing that out, but this video was really interesting and made me have coherent thoughts which is a rare occurrence these days. I probably came off as really pretentious dishing out an analysis no one asked for, but thanks (and sorry) for giving me a better understanding and making me think deeper about what I'm reading, that's always cool. Your videos are always really well done on a lot of levels, they're informative but not like textbook informative, I genuinely have a good time watching them. Great job Shaelin!

[@ShaelinWrites]

I *love* Vicious, it's one of my favs! The handling of the morality is so fascinating, I should have talked about it in the video as an example haha

[@lailadobb9221]

2:29: Villanelle: Are you sure about that?

[@molly4566]

this is perfect for my short story, main character is a total mess haha. thank you!

[@ShaelinWrites]

There is nothing I love more than a short story where the main character is a mess !!

[@Mjot101]

My favourite type of characters are people that do horrible things but it all comes from a pure emotion. e.g. Cercei, she does so many awful things and they are not excused but at the end of the day everything she did was to protect her children

[@jackfahy2283]

Is there any chance you could maybe do a video on “Inner Narrative” ?

[@ScullyPop]

Thank you for this great video about moral ambiguity.

[@notyetdeleted6319]

I’m currently trying to create a character, he’s 450 years old, cursed to live forever, btw it’s pretty shitty immortality too so he suffers a lot. And the way he can relieve his curse is by creating a society of humans that are in tune and don’t take more then what is rightfully theirs from nature. His drive is around trying to reach this goal, so he can finally die. There’s only so much of watching people die, so much death and regret you can handle until you loose your humanity. So I have to balance this obsessive sack of misery and spite, all the while trying to 1: make an economy, 2: make a culture, and 3: HOW DOES THIS GUY MAINTAIN HIS POSITION OF POWER

[@abhishekbiswas2267]

Sometimes I have a hard time deciding which is more beautiful? 🤔 those eyes or your zillion dollar smile 😊

[@jhouserwrites]

Yes! Let them be who they are.

[@sanghitadey8475]

My problem is my MC is very emotionally manipulative and do not regret... But I'm scared that readers will not see him as a character fit to be a hero. Another problem is that I'm planning a love triangle. One of them is a musician, decent, and kind but has anger issues. The other one is a doctor, but unemotional. I just don't know whom to win in the love battle.

[@swankytable84]

"I know it's hard because you love your characters." Me, who constantly makes my characters go through horrific trauma that will require at least five lifetimes of therapy to recover from: "I do?"