SHAMAN TURBO NERFED? OR IS IT? - Runes, Pre-BIS and Class Changes - WoW Season of Discovery Phase 3

[@soklot]

We can actually pre pop all the honor commendations on the day before patch? I thought rank 7 requires you to be at least lvl 44.

[@ShockTherapy55]

My bad, need to buy commendations before p3 (as they remove them) and use at 50. Should get to r7 with enough commendations on first reset in p3.

[@Shockdoctor_OG]

Just farm honor in bg on the bg weekend took me 1 day to get 105k honor

[@MrOrmanley]

My thoughts on the changes to RB, WoE, Alpha, LL; 1) This is a nerf to enhancement shaman pvp, as it directly robs shamans of very much needed tankiness. We lack the mobility of a warrior's charge or the option to close the gap in stealth. We also lack the high armor of paladin/warrior or the evasiveness of a rogue. Shamans have always been squishy, WoE was very much needed as a work-around. 2) RB/RB from a dps PoV was inferior to WF/WF in pve, no nerf needed. In pvp, they traded the versatility of lots of msw procs against higher auto hit, ss and ll dmg. It was a rather even trade, imo. 3) WF/WF, WF/RB, WF/FT, RB/RB, RB/WF, RB/FT (and ofc RB/shield), I have actually seen myself make cases for all of these in p2, which I find an interesting case to make in regards to balance between the imbues. They all have their own strong points. Pidgeon-holing this into RB/Shield for tanking and wf/ft for dps I find very unimaginative. It also feels like blizzard doesn't want to leave their comfort zone, trying to stick to as many old, established ideas as much as possible, introducing as little actually new stuff as possible. 4) What is the problem exactly? Shamans do too much damage as dps? Too much dmg as tanks? How is this a problem? I'm not saying I have the need to play the strongest performing class, but if being no.1 is bad...isn't there always going to be one spec at the top? Will being at the top always lead to auto nerfs? I find this a lacking reason tbh. 5) Is the problem that shamans would DW tank instead of using Shield Mastery, and following blizzards' vision? If so, make bosses hit harder. Make crushing blows a real threat and require extra defense from gear. Make attacks in general hit hard enough so we need the extra armor of a shield. Knowing you could take the beating while DWing and doing more damage but now being forced to use a shield because ~reasons~ feels very annoying tbh. 6) As a tank, constantly swapping items/runes around to rb/shield tank larger groups, watershield/dw tank other fights and watershield/shield tank others still lended depth to the game and actually fully made use of the rune system for a flexible playstyle. Nerfing RB, WoE, Alpha and all that, it basically stomps out what the rune system was beginning to establish itself as. Not a fan. 7) Again, Introduce tanking oriented gear (block/dodge/parry/defense) and make fights that require it. If tanks use basically dps gear with some extra stamina pieces maybe for some more meat on the bones, and that's it, no onder tanks end up doing a lot of damage. 8) The RB/Shield tank system is very restrictive in design. The mana generation and armor ramp-up require constant blocking, and while 20% block sounds like a lot as a base number, it constantly falls off between trash packs, when you need to move during boss fights, or just simply as a result of bad rng. That is simply horrid, design-wise. Having enough mana to use skills or enough armor to survive boss damage is not optional. It's a requirement that demands dependability. Shaman tank only works well in its design on mass pulls, and blizzard's even enforcing that with their new LS aoe rune. If tanking in blizzard's mind is to auto hit the mob with some occassional shock, i'm sorry, I'm out, that is boring AF. 9) Also, while 2h/dwing, shaman has 10% spellhit, but as 1h/shield we dont get any. Our taunt (!) is a spell with a 17(!) miss chance. That is bad too, and another reason for dw tanking. 10) If the new Mental Dexterity rune is part of the reason why they nerf RB, just make RB melee attack power only, and restrict MD to all attack power, so that our spells dont benefit from RB ap. I mean, I get it; If we run around with 2k ap with rb/rb and old Beta buff in p3 gear and get 600 spelldmg from it, that's broken. It's easily fixed though, no need for a 90% nerf. 11) As a side note: Mana has always been a worrying factor of enhance. And as dps enh, shocks/fire totems are severely training. Addind LS with static shock into the mix will put more of a strain on that. Add to that that enh is pretty much gcd capped, how will we fit LS refreshing into this? 12) Msw with rb/rb very rarely procced. With RB/shield even less so. Msw as a rune is pretty much dead for tanking. Will enh tanking generate enough mana to make FN a thing? Doubtful. I'd suggest the FN rune to additionally reduce the cd and mana cost of FN and maybe put a debuff on mobs to take more dire damage. Would make warlocks and mages happy as well as ele shamans. It would give enh dps more reasons to use FS, maybe Lvb rune (elemental devastation talent) and it would also synergize with magma totem, cone flame shock rune and molten blast for a more fleshed-out ~aoe fire tank~ identity. Some general opinion: Is there a reason tanks cannot put out competitive damage in dungeons and raids, comparable to dps specs? If we have a rune for every tank class that is absolutely required for tanking, and have those runes linked to a certain shared effect that says: "Increases damage done while in dungeons and raids by xx%, and increases damage taken by other players by xx%" Then we decouple it from use in pvp and remove the need to balance pve and pvp tankiness. Fundamentally, a tank is a melee dps designated to get beat up and have added responsibility. Why would he not be entitled to have the same engaging playstyle and rewarding payoff (high numbers) as a regular dps? Reward tanking as highly as dpsing, and people will flock to tanking more, which is never a bad thing, right? If they make RB/shield a highly engaging playstyle with numbers to show, then by all means. But it's not looking like that, going into p3. People are excited about parses. Shaman tanks have high dps parses, people are excited about it. Instead of nerfing that, buff that in other specs. Make bears, prots, rogue tanks etc into true pumpers. Maybe introduce attacks that depend on armor rating instead of AP, and crit chance based on dodge/parry/block, dunno.

[@ShockTherapy55]

Aye good points! definitely not looking as strong in P3 compared to P2 but will have to wait and see right ...

[@Northcliffful]

R.I.P 2h Sham...again..

[@curbside1071]

Good they were op af

[@ZugzugZugzugson]

@@curbside1071 2H enhancement was OP? Please get your head checked.

[@tylerm6080]

only people who want 2h sham are the ones who never played it. its dogshit. literally the best classic shaman was the two week prepatch where you had full naxx gear and r14 axes in classic.

[@ZugzugZugzugson]

@@tylerm6080 only people who want DW are rogue players who rerolled because they are fotm scum.

[@deviin6996]

I’m enjoying enhance now while I can, but at level 50 I’m looking forward to swapping to Resto

[@ShockTherapy55]

Fair fair! Resto be exciting soon enough mon!

[@warrenpieper2513]

Yea you have to go heals no we will be bottom of the barrel all this to fix tank but we will still run out of mana the main issue of shammy tank awesome

[@ShockTherapy55]

@@warrenpieper2513 ye will have to see how meta at 50 looks like. Enh is nerfed but I feel it wont be too bad ..

[@warrenpieper2513]

I agree but it's just lazy of blizz the nerfs and buffs are what makes people not want to play

[@ZugzugZugzugson]

Players: "We want 2H Enhancement" Blizzard: "No, you want Dual Wield" Players: "We hate dual wield" Blizzard: "No, you love dual wield. here is a buff to go with it" Players: "20% flat attack power is broken and its going to result in us becoming overpowered, don't do this" Blizzard: "We're doing this" Players: "Can you at least be gentle when you eventually have to swing the nerfbat? because literally all of us know its coming if you do this" Blizzard: "No. Fuck you. Roll resto". this has been my experience in SOD so far. oh, almost forgot: rock bottom DPS all phase 1 with no complaints only to have what little joy i had in my spec ripped away like a babe from its mothers arms. now i am forced to use a shield, i will struggle with threat AND mana, and my damage will be nonexistent.... if the goal is to make every tank shaman respec then i'd say its working as intended because this is how you get every shaman to reroll to a different spec, maybe a different class entirely because at this point shaman players have had enough of blizzard's abuse. its been 20 years. its not funny anymore. one more situation like this for enhancement shaman and i'm throwing in the towel for good. i don't care if a real classic+ comes along because blizzard has proven that their ability to balance the game is ungodly bad. Like they actually had the gall to make a bluepost claiming that the Elemental 3 set bonus from Gnomeregan (0.2 faster cast speed on lightning bolt) was quote "really strong" (are you fking kidding me bro?) they even added this developer's note: _"This set bonus was really strong and resulted in 10% more Lightning Bolts. We’ve reduced the cast time reduction to avoid the possibility of this older set bonus not being replaced with later Phase 3 gear."_ Now, if this doesn't scream incompetence and comedy i don't know what will. this is peak amateurism.

[@zepho100]

What's your opinion on tanking now? People talking about snapshotting ele tanking for the lightning shield rune.

[@ShockTherapy55]

Yep, lightning shield rune tanking might be the way to go .. Definitely going to be interesting having to go with shield 100% of the time, feels like mana will still be an issue. Threat wise should be fine.

[@CleaveGFX]

No disrespect your 50m clip. But any TLDR? Would love a summary whether with this be again lower pack or?

[@ShockTherapy55]

TLDR: I feel we will be around top 3-5 dps, even with the latest RB nerf. Mental Dexterity should be good enough to keep us in top dps contention

[@leonardoleite4569]

After rockbiters and lava lash changes, what should be the weapon effects ?

[@SchweißerSinds]

you never played wf + wf never bro at least wf and rockbite but now maybe wf and flametongue im not sure about it thats why im here :D

[@ShockTherapy55]

@@SchweißerSinds I've been testing today WF+WF. Also on sim app, it seems WF+WF shows best. Maybe Flametongue also might be an option ..

[@SchweißerSinds]

What about wf rank 2 +rank 1 wf and Lava burst is that an Option ? Lava lash without enchant Kind of sucks and with that proccs you Prob can have Chain light on CD too

[@ShockTherapy55]

@@SchweißerSinds Looks like Lava burst not that great, even if double WF is proccing maelstorm like crazy. Lava lash siming better atm

[@Vegetsu101]

Losing the ~44% EHP buff and being crit 6% more is going to hurt a lot, solo farming singular red-level mobs might not be possible anymore, especially when the main damage source (lava lash) got nerfed by 1/3rd of its damage. When being ganked by a semi-geared rogue in open world, you were already losing about 70% of your max hp as bis geared dual wield tank within their stun opener. So I guess if you don't want to get 100-0'd in Phase 3 you must sacrifice your 2nd trinket for PvP trinket at all times. But even if you get a racial resist proc for the first stun and trinket the 2nd one, they will just pop Evasion and laugh at you. While I do agree that Enha Shaman was quite a bit overtuned, now it seems like it might become an actual meme in every aspect of the game except for PvE Group play (dungeons and raids).

[@ShockTherapy55]

nerf was needed, but I dont think it will be joke in all other content. I feel PvP/STV/BGs will still be fine for enh to do, obviously not soloing 3v1 because you never die due to Way of earth. Also main damage source really is auto attacks/WF procs, so I wont be too worried about Lava Lash tbh. Rogue openers are out of discussion tho, that just not winnable without trinket as you've said really

[@decai6899]

LOL enh a meme? You do realise that every dps pretty much needs to wear pvp trinket right? Im not sure why you crying about it when every class is in the same boat. You obviously never played any other class in pvp in phase 2 if you complain shaman had it hard lol

[@Vegetsu101]

@@decai6899 I didn't say at any point that shamans had it hard in PvP. Enha Shaman had the upper hand against any other class in PvP if they got within melee range, with the only exception being a prepared rogue with all of their cooldowns up. My entire point was about being surprised how fast a semi-geared rogue could bring down a full dual wield mitigation bis geared tank especially when a lot of their energy and combo points are being spent on Crowd Control. Getting ganked while grinding mobs is not PvP. Also, by looking at the raid gear It is looking like they want players to go full Spell-hance and stop using Lava Lash as a whole. They are not providing us any slow off hand weapons and with the extra spellpower I feel like they want us to go with maelstrom weapon setup that casts lava burst / chain lightning

[@decai6899]

@@Vegetsu101 Thats because they deal alot of dmg quickly with mutilate, but every class gets done by rogues if they dont have a trinket. So not sure why shaman should be able to destroy them without the trinket either. And honestly, thats classic experience, rogues with cooldowns, choosing when to jump a player was pretty much always one sided. Raid gear looks great for shamans tbh. In regards to playstyle it feels quite samey to what the playstyle looks like in wotlk which is great imo. THe nerf targetted tanks mostly, and it feels justified.

[@ZugzugZugzugson]

a hidden pre-bis you neglected to mention on your list here is Ripsaw from ZF; it only has 33.3 dps but it has 2.70 atk speed and it has a chance on hit to wound an enemy for 75 damage - and guess what, that counts as an attack which means it can proc windfury and windfury can proc it in return, making this one of the best weapons available outside of raid content.

[@ShockTherapy55]

yep missed that! Also Belgrom's Hammer seems insane in MH and sims best for me. Might do updated pre-BIS maybe as I've missed a few things + the extra added changes about rockbitter

[@Thesoulofalion]

I think Rolling Thunder will be the go to rune for Enchance too, just use FS instead of ES till 9 charges then pop ES for a ton of dmg. Feels like it will proc a lot more and for more dmg than Static Shock

[@ShockTherapy55]

yep sounds like Rolling Thunder is way to go, unless they buff Static Shock

[@Thesoulofalion]

@@ShockTherapy55 Yeah 6% proc chance is nothing. Even if you just use ES on cooldown and proc it once every 3 cds with the CL it should do more dmg

[@machiavelli_g4458]

svt turn in before p3 or after p3 starts? i thought you have 2 weeks to turn in?

[@ShockTherapy55]

So need to buy commendations before p3 (as they remove them) and use at 50. Should get to r7 with enough commendations on first reset in p3.

[@Kehuru]

Lvl 44 is the req for rank 7??

[@pestilentbt3256]

The int converting into ap will help so much with finding good items, had a preview at MC and with the old loot there isn’t much to excite enhancement

[@halyeth2083]

You can get skill 300 in professions and profession specs. They said it in the announcement video

[@ZugzugZugzugson]

also how many times are they gonna fuck around with lava lash before they see it for the trash ability it is, delete it and replace it with something halfway exciting or decent? Lava Lash is the most uninspired piece of dog******* melee ability in the entire game. i would rather have mongoose bite instead of this crap because at least that would have a chance to proc a WF.

[@ShockTherapy55]

yep Lava lash not very fun :D

[@warrenpieper2513]

Can't use rock biter anymore the attack power is nerfed to 35 attack power granted untalented it's crap storm strike hits for shit now and lava lash is now our big DMG move it's a bad nerf I disagree with all of what you said

[@ShockTherapy55]

Yep the extra Rockbitter nerfs is hard not gonna lie. Wasnt datamined when I did video .. But been testing double WF today and it is not THAT bad + we get mental dexterity soon so ... will see

[@AM-fo4ns]

Lmao, damage wise i think we are fine, ive been playing this morning and double WF is definetely the way to go with malestrom. You hit 5 stacks every 2 secs

[@ShockTherapy55]

yep I've been testing double WF too. Maelstorm procs like crazy, but auto-attacks/WF numbers not as big sadly :(

[@Brian-zi5wr]

I dont understand why so many changes all at once, why not make a small change and see where things lie, and then another small change. There's no reason to just throw all the pieces into the air at once and see where they land. This is way to many changes all at once.

[@KAZPERFOX]

Exactly what I've been saying nerf this and that by 15% at a time. NOT gut the entire enh sham kit in one go? They have been garbage all of sod except the last few weeks. Gg was fun

[@ShockTherapy55]

yep Blizz went overboard not gonna lie

[@captainsteamer7320]

I'm worried Tanking on a Shaman will be boring AF. DW was a lot of fun. WoE and Rockbiter's interaction definitely needed nerf, but oh was it soo much fun.

[@ShockTherapy55]

yep, tanking will now rely on shield all the time, so 100% more boring :(

[@zepho100]

@@ShockTherapy55 do you think ele tanking will now be the way?

[@Thesoulofalion]

They should have given 5% overall dmg instead of physical as everything will scale towards spellhance instead of melee. And maybe buff flametongue more to make is more desireable, otherwise I see us going double WF more often than WF/FT.

[@ShockTherapy55]

I think with recent RB nerf, they will change either RB tooltip to give flat%dmg or buff Flametongue. I feel Blizz wont like us go double WF but lets see..

[@Thesoulofalion]

@@ShockTherapy55 I hope they do something. While i agree with some of the changes, I dont like the idea of flat nerfs all around...

[@ShockTherapy55]

@@Thesoulofalion ye same ..

[@warrenpieper2513]

Blizz never learns just buffs and nerfs so lazy shaman tank has mana problems not threat fix that

[@ShockTherapy55]

ye but problem was Duel-wielding and rockbitter AP values. Tanking with shield does bring the mana problem tho ..

[@WoWMadCowKing]

My friend, lightning shield wont hit for 200 dmg when mental dexerity will give you around 300 spellpower, just saying 😁 Also even if the 90% rockbiter nerf goes live and we switch to flametongue flametongue will be doing alot more than what the tooltip says due to the spellpower we get again. Basically our dmg as enhance will be 50-50 physical-spell which is really going into the class fantasy. Enhance dps and tank will be just fine shaman brothers, dont worry 😁 And all the fotm tourists will quit the class to go back to their rogues and warriors now 🤣

[@ShockTherapy55]

hmm .. lighting shield sp modifier seems to be 0.2 So with 200-300SP you will do about what 260? 300? Still a joke :D Shamans would be fine tho!

[@WoWMadCowKing]

@@ShockTherapy55 well it's basically another 300 armor ignoring nature dmg + the 20% from stormstrike debuff that we didn't do before anyways. I believe that after the rockbiter nerf we will have to go flametongue and go for a faster offhand to get more fire dmg off the hits from it... It's gonna be tough at first, but at 50 we will be fine. Raid buffed + elixirs we will still have close to 1500ap. And in all honesty I believe that tanking now would be super interesting and not just using rb rb woe . All in all sod has been good for us... hopefully we get another active attack skill similar to lava lash for 2h and finally ascend to our true 2h form in p4.

[@ShockTherapy55]

@@WoWMadCowKing cant wait for Hand of Rag .. hope its viable

[@WoWMadCowKing]

@@ShockTherapy55 aren't we all brother... aren't we all...

[@Allimusion]

This is discouraging. Started playing sod just to enjoy 2h enh again since they made it impossible in retail now look at the whiny babes. Whelp might as well prepare for the Mage, Rogue, and Priest meta.

[@KAZPERFOX]

Yeah everything is about to over power enh sham. We will have no chance to get in a raid since druids have windfury now.

[@ShockTherapy55]

Yep, dont know bout the meta, but 2H is definitely lacking a lot. Even after nerfs, DW Enh is pretty decent tho ..

[@undacuvabrotha]

Good enh shamans will be fine, I ain’t worried 😎

[@adamnagel7436]

They will be easy kills in pvp. Other than that they will be fine.

[@undacuvabrotha]

@@adamnagel7436 nah they’ll be fine.

[@KAZPERFOX]

​@@undacuvabrothabro you have no idea. Wait till 50 you will be useless as ENH. Everything is about to get buffed and sham kit is gutted now. Just wait till a lock 1 shots you or a pally runs through you.

[@Shockdoctor_OG]

Shocktherapy and I need a collab! Shaman bros unite. Ele shaman are about to be on the top of the food chain brother

[@ShockTherapy55]

Season of shaman

[@Shockdoctor_OG]

@@ShockTherapy55 about damn time I was a wf/chain heal slave for 15 years

[@rohacjustrohac3581]

enha still strong 100% but i just hate that Loyal beta is only 5% phys damage instead of all damage since it doesnt really help with the class being a HYBRID

[@hjjjhful]

The weapon skill changes don’t come until 60

[@ShockTherapy55]

we sure? why did I think its coming now

[@hjjjhful]

@@ShockTherapy55 they said 60 for the wep skill and priest spells

[@chrisbalcu4033]

Is anyone who complains here ever played enhance? Its too op now to the point you 1v3 easy. Doing red mobs shouldnt be so easy. Go play a warrior then come back to sham and be humbled

[@ShockTherapy55]

Yep nerf was needed. Though no point being humbled by playing warrior ... when I can still play nerf enh and feel great about it

[@chrisbalcu4033]

@@ShockTherapy55 i play both. And every time i want to say something bad about shaman i log to the warrior then im humbled that was my ideea here

[@ShockTherapy55]

@@chrisbalcu4033 ahahaha okay ye I see now :D ye playing warrior is humbling these days

[@johnyervins5824]

Since when has playing warrior the hero class of classic humbing 😂

[@davidmoe9668]

rockbiter getting that 89% nerf tho :/

[@ShockTherapy55]

ye did video literally before that was datamined .. sadge .. hopefully they change it not just remove AP from it

[@johnyervins5824]

Idk why they didn't just revert the buffs lol they instead deleted a whole spec

[@koopk1]

shaymen

[@danielbaker4457]

Quick .aths...static shook rune not worth the global CD...unless you have an opening.

[@ShockTherapy55]

ye thought so .. on sims its also bad ..

[@soklot]

+15 str or fiery weapon hmm

[@ShockTherapy55]

bis is +15str, but fiery weapon is good option!

[@queenmarsia]

those nerfs were well deserved. welcome to the hybrid tax world shamans. stay for a while.

[@KAZPERFOX]

What class do you main?

[@ShockTherapy55]

Nerfs were justified, not sure if deserving of so many at the same time. Enh still looks to be fine tho so we will survive!

[@queenmarsia]

@@KAZPERFOX warlock

[@KAZPERFOX]

@@queenmarsia ohhh so your just sick of losing in pvp. Only thing I've played since day 1 of sod is Enh sham. So you're irrelevant.

[@PavloLysiuk]

@@KAZPERFOX lol, thia guy playing meta class of all time and complaining now coz he start to losing in PVP..

[@JoeBlack14]

Your video is horrible timing. They nerfed the crap out of enchance shaman. So sad.

[@chrisuo1086]

Yeah gigantic nerf.. oh well

[@ShockTherapy55]

Ye tell me about it .. the timing .. good news is I've been testing double WF as the nerfs are Live already and it doesnt feel HORRIBLE. Still worse tho of course ..

[@chrisuo1086]

@@ShockTherapy55 I miss having 1600 AP dual hand with way of earth =;(

[@ShockTherapy55]

@@chrisuo1086 ye its so sad :X