Kinetic R1 "Rock'n'Roll" Smart Trainer: Details // Setup // Ride Review

[@pauldamian2988]

Anyone else notice how much better these video's have become, not so much content wise, but the graphics, camera angles, use of inserts... dare I say "PROFESSIONAL"??? Always good stuff, now even better!

[@Dcrainmaker]

Reads 800w high? Sounds like my kinda power boost. I'll take 10!

[@gplama]

Mrs Llama (aka Von (aka my video sanity checker)) has pointed out I say at some point the R1 'reads low'. I meant to say it reads high in 200W steady state which in turn shows the Assioma reading lower than the target watts. Either way, I'm sure you all know what I mean.

[@anvilhead59]

Yah, you went off on how the power signal wavered versus the pedals. Other way around. The flywheel probably keeps its signal very steady versus the pedal signal. The sprint power variance suggests something is wrong because it's large in proportion. Spikes occurring simultaneously between trainer and pedals means something is not steady in the trainer, maybe stepper motor? Seems like a little expensive with errors. Think I'll wait until they iron the bugs out.

[@NeilXDavis]

Great honest review from a trusted source - these things are serious money. I’ll stick with my old kickr.

[@leon.a.t]

Reliable, unbiased review. Thanks for your reviews Shane!

[@antonpeterson1245]

Kinetic already have a front wheel block that allows the front wheel to turn. It's called the riser ring and it was used for the original rock n roll trainer they made years ago.

[@peoplepower1272]

Can anyone explain how steering the front wheel makes the trainer rock better? it doesn't look like it does anything because the bike can still flop the wrong way.

[@northkyt]

I have a Kinetic Rock and Roll Smart Control trainer (a wheel-on trainer), and it has some of the same issues with power readings. It tends to read less than actual watts by 15 to 20 watts, more off at higher efforts. This was measured against both Favero Assiomas and Stages meters (which are very close to each other, within 5 watts). 20 watts may not sound like much, but since my FTP is 200 watts, that's a 10% error. That's enough to put me into a different training zone, or make me suffer mightily in Zwift races when I should suffer just as much but have 20 more watts :) It also does not react fast enough for sprints or sprint training...by the time the power readings ramp up my sprint is over. This is probably the area where it's the least like real life. Since I don't weigh very much in real life my jump is pretty fast, even if my top-end sprint speed...is not. This may sound like I don't like my Kinetic. But I really do like the rock and roll feature, it's definitely more comfortable for me than riding a static trainer in a spinning class for example. Also my Kinetic has had rock-solid reliability for two years so far. Getting the roller tension right can be a hassle but once dialed in the trainer works without issues every ride. My solution for accuracy has been to ride with a Stages crank arm meter as the power meter source, instead of using the built-in power meter in the Kinetic. This is an expensive solution, but it has resolved accuracy issues and responsiveness is now what I would expect. It also keeps readings consistent for indoor and outdoor training. I was hoping these issues would be resolved in the R1, but it looks like I would need to keep using a separate power meter if I want accuracy.

[@haddymcbatty]

Incredible analysis again Shane. Thanks for the work!

[@marcbryant8482]

Thanks Shane (and Von) another excellent review. Clever to use the sound from the Final Cut Pro to demonstrate the sound gremlins.

[@petemoore6590]

Thanks for this Shane, I'll be sticking with the Neo.

[@Chader9]

Awesome work, Shane. Thanks for the effort behind this (and all other reviews) and the details that help us make choices in this space. Cheers :D

[@sgalenchapmanjr7456]

Shane, I live in the Midwest of the US and we always ride in cross winds. Cheers!

[@peoplepower1272]

"If I had access to one, I’d review it. Simple." Awesome! I have to believe they are available for the asking. Their Facebook page said DC Rainmaker has the full rocking setup. Maybe he'll let you ride it next time you visit?

[@gplama]

I won't be over in Amsterdam any time soon. Let's see what Ray has to say about the rollers. They've teased out on Twitter his review is pending.

[@pam00088]

Investor: "When am I getting my money back?" Kinetic boss: "Development has stalled and the product is already 2 years out of date. It's a dead duck." Investor: "Tough sh1t. Start selling the thing or i'm taking your house."

[@wafflefrywhirligig]

I was considering this as I live in Minneapolis MN and know one of the reps when I recently upgraded trainers but went with a Wahoo KICKR instead (too difficult to find a Neo 2 locally) and glad I did! I would rather have data that is close to accurate than what I am seeing here and it sounds like this is still beta with some bugs to work out. I wish Kurt the best in updating this unit and hope they can get it sorted quickly with just some firmware updates.

[@rossc7006]

Hope you don't get all the vibration and clunking noises a lot of people (myself included) have had. Seriously disappointed in Wahoo and will never buy from them again.

[@wafflefrywhirligig]

@@rossc7006 : No problems so far with it or the Climb and I did update the firmware right away. Losing fake watts was a letdown though 😁. That being said, I did a bunch of research and know of the problems many had (belts, lock up, over heating, etc) and hopefully they were all worked out with the latest batch. If I do have issues, I would order the Tacx Neo 2 deal with online support. I'm not married to any brand.

[@nick_velokicks]

"Wet piece of spaghetti noodling down the road" 😂 visceral analogy. Haha

[@glennoc8585]

Been waiting for somebody to offer more than the static trainer. The green looks good. It needs refinement but in ten years time trainers will be very simulation like.

[@Brantel.]

So glad I passed a few months ago and got a Kickr Core!

[@dutchgus]

2019, needs to be accurate, rock solid, and silent. Shane have you considered interviewing product managers from the company to understand the rationale in some of their decision making?

[@gplama]

We often share emails. I’m not sure most would be keen to answer the questions I ask in video. It’s a good question though.

[@shmoogoblin8529]

wow, not seen one of those USB ports for a long long time

[@mister_ray]

The KK Road Machine dumb fluid trainer has the best road feel of any trainer. Unfortunately KK has never been able to get their smart trainers to the level/reliability of the competitors. It should be noted that the Tacx Neo 1/2 (IMO the gold standard of smart trainers) does have a reasonable amount of side/side flex/movement.

[@nickzourikian4555]

Agreed 100%. KK make SOLID, bombproof and great road-feel "dumb" trainers. However, unfortunately their "smart trainer" software is definitely STILL not ready for primetime. Just use an Ant+ dongle and virtual power w Zwift, TrainerRoad, etc. and call it a day. Alternately, just buy a (relatively cheap) real smart trainer, such as Elite Direto, Wahoo Core etc...

[@mister_ray]

The KK InRide accessory which broadcasts power/cadence data for their fluid dumb trainers works reasonably well with Zwift.

[@larrbrown7277]

I want buy this trainer but I sure like your analysis. You said the unit is heavy but you picked it up like a feather? Well done👍

[@sgtrod]

Shane, I have Brompton S6L, that's the 6 speed version. What smart trainer solutions are there for the 16" wheels with that Sturmey Archer gear set up? I've been using the older Kinetic Road Machine with the after market sensor w/magnet and a standard size Peugeot single speed road bike. I just would like the gears for cadence work and to be able to ride the Brompton as it's my main outdoors bike right now. Thanks

[@nickzourikian4555]

Agreed 100%. KK make SOLID, bombproof and great road-feel "dumb" trainers. However, unfortunately their "smart trainer" software is definitely STILL not ready for primetime. Just use an Ant+ dongle and virtual power w Zwift, TrainerRoad, etc. and call it a day. Alternately, just buy a (relatively cheap) real smart trainer, such as Elite Direto, Wahoo Core etc...

[@joshuadohmen]

The only smart trainer that is currently available. I am still hesitating

[@cumbriancyclist385]

Hi Shane could you do a video on how to index gears whilst a bike is on the turbo many thanks

[@m.a.c1379]

With strong arms is how

[@kaaba92]

G Awesome review!!

[@mrnobody9821]

I purchased the Kinetic Rock’n’Roll smart control in May from Sigma sports, within a week I had broken the unit because the magnet on the roller decided to eject while attempting to hit 100kph on Zwift. Sigma sports were absolutely terrible in their customer support and they insisted I contacted Kurt Kinetic directly, so I did and they send me a replacement magnet, rubber grommet and speed sensor, to their credit, they reacted quickly and the parts came within a few days. The customer service at sigma sports suggested I put some tape over the magnet to secure it, I glued it into the grommet instead. It’s worked fine since then but I would not personally purchase from Kurt Kinetic again (or sigma) or suggest their products to anyone looking for a trainer, for £550 pounds I would expect the components not to eject when put under load expected from the activity. The rocking feature is good but other than providing some dampening it’s not all it’s made out to be. Overall I would rate it AVOID out of 10. I’m waiting for the day it breaks so I can upgrade to a more established reliable trainer.

[@peoplepower1272]

Another rocking trainer fails to pass the Lama test? No surprise there. I personally appreciate your willingness to keep testing rockers and not sugar coat them the way some reviewers do. Those of us who follow you know rocking trainers have these issues, so why have we still not seen a review of the rocking fork stand (aka Inside Ride Flex)? It's surreal to watch you theorize (again) about the mechanics of rockers when there's a product out there that already cracked that nut. Yes I have one, and yes the control issues when out of the saddle are non-existent. The steering axis controls the bike's tilt through direct leverage, so there's no flopping. Given your expertise and criticism of all those other rockers, shouldn't you be all over this?

[@gplama]

If I had access to one, I’d review it. Simple.

[@kevwells]

Considering what seems a year of testing and they have not really improved I would not hold my breath with any improvements

[@oldsap]

Shane, you mentioned about the slow response of the trainer especially on erg mode, using my kickr core, when i have a 10 sec sprint in erg mode, the trainer usually responds after 2-5 secs and i guess it's not considered a 10 sec sprint if this is the case. so what's the best thing to do? adjust the program from 10sec to 12 or 15sec? or is there any other way?

[@gplama]

ERG can't really handle really short intervals well. Here's my workaround for Zwift workouts: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d2XEonywncuIfMk

[@wubble666]

I had a similar problem with my Elite turbo Muin Realpower and TrainerRoad but when I started using my wahoo element head unit to control the trainer the lag was reduced by 1/2 to 2/3. I think there is some communication lag when it comes from laptops and Android devices. Not sure about Apple.

[@TheCrossroads09]

A blow off valve when shifting gears could be connected to the usb...

[@killroy123]

Bill and Ted? Excellent

[@pesquerona]

Hello, I have had a problem with the 9mm adapters, I have lost the one on the cassette part, and I was to see if you could send me the measurements, so I can make an identical one. Thank you so much!!

[@gplama]

This trainer is long gone sorry.

[@GeorgeRon]

Hi Shane, question. When you ride Zwift , how do you get trainer native power and power from the pedals all in one file? I like the side by side power review but wondering how do you get that file with two powers. Thanks!

[@gplama]

I record power on two head units and use the DCR analyser to compare them both.

[@GeorgeRon]

@@gplama Ah crap. Sounds more work than I thought. Is there any easier way with one head unit? For example, could you have a wrist watch display a different power than the head unit uses? If you paired the watch to one of the power meters specifically rather than the other...?

[@gplama]

​@@GeorgeRon There's no simple way to skin this cat. Here's an overview of how I do it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gJnLlneCjbeAbas

[@brandokally1]

Brilliant Video 👌

[@richardhutchings1980]

Stepper motor? The Green Goblin looks inferior to the Kickr. And that fan running for 30mins after a ride? Strange and doesn't inspire confidence (to eliminate overheating / fires?)

[@mrnobody9821]

Richard Hutchings Dont buy their products. I posted a comment with my experience above

[@JamieEnglish]

Wow, legacy USB port!

[@gplama]

It's the future. In reverse. And a USB type-b which we haven't seen since printers all went wireless.

[@YellowfinCoachMatt]

@@gplama Just an FYI the usb ports do not Function, I have tried with Perpro soft ware and Both Perfpro and KK customer service tells me they do not work at this time with no date to get them working

[@BikingBarista76]

This video help me not choose this one. Thanks for making this video.

[@Spyder2275]

Anyone know where to get that cassette holder used to easily put the new cassette on? Looks genius

[@TheUnrevealer]

Does this unit has 'real' powermeter or it just calculates it from speed like Elite Misuro B+ and alike?

[@rossc7006]

Shane, what trainer would you buy after all the ones you've tested? I've had a horrible experience with my Kickr and a bit gun shy on what to get.

[@gplama]

Lemond Revolution for training. Kicker for racing. Neo for testing. That’s my current three go-to.

[@gertcaspersen3403]

Hi Shane. Thx for a great review of the R1, which I am currently also testing. I have tested it on Rouvy software and Zwift. I have discovered the same problem on boths softwares. Problems that you do not mention and which I will like you to test as well. When I am on a steady climb which exceed 6,5 % on Rouvy and 10% on Zwift I have noticed that the resistance in the trainer fluctuates. If I am trying to keep a steady force at around 250 Watts on those climbs I experince that the trainer fluctuates the resistance between 75 and up to 350 Watts every 5 sec. Of course the cadence at the same time will fluctuate and it feels pretty wrong to do the exercise in this way. I have udatede the firmware to ver. 2.0 but it does not solve the problem. It could be nice if you could try see if you have the same problem. - Thx.

[@gplama]

That could be another manifestation of those spikes I was seeing in ERG. I’ve put the R1 aside for now until the next firmware or other update from Kinetic. It’s a busy month in the lead up to Eurobike. Other new releases are sure to put even more pressure on Kinetic to get the R1 in a better state.

[@pauldamian2988]

Hopefully, you used those adjustable feet to level out the floor contact. Gotta think no way should the legs be lifting off the floor. Seems to me, that unit wanted to sit on the four adjuster at the end of the legs, and not teetering about a random contact point in the middle? This definitely would have effected the feel. That said, I doubt this would be a "game changer"... I'll stick with my trusted Kickr...

[@mjv1967]

The only one with a direct USB connection!

[@gplama]

But..... There's no cable supplied, there's no compatibility, and with the sprint numbers the unit is reporting it'll be on the Zwift Esports banned list faster than a Turbo Muin dropped off a tall building.

[@mjv1967]

@@gplama Sad to hear. But as a user I would just expect USB to my PC. That would be great. I wish my Hammer had that. KK took way too long to bring this unit out and it shows it is a first gen attempt.

[@gplama]

@@mjv1967 Agreed. The 'R2' I've pitched at the end is what we expected in 2019.

[@fukawitribe]

@@gplama True, but crap accuracy aside, this is what has been requested for years for studio situations and the like. In those cases, the ease of wireless connections can actually be a pain in the ass.

[@KushPizzaSleep]

Can I control Zwift with my 4iii to control my R1 as an 3rd party PM?

[@gplama]

If the software you're using supports that, sure.

[@davidyoung-nb2pu]

So I have the white elite drivo smart trainer. I could do with a quieter one due to our grandson sleeping over on a regular basis. I would like the quietest on the market. What would you recommend. Your the best info man out there always good honest reviews cheers

[@callumph]

Tacx Neo 2 or the new Wahoo Kickr. Seems like the Kickr might be less reliable from a manufacturing standpoint, so if you have the cash, go for the Tacx Neo 2.

[@Dennis4523]

What do you do with all these turbo trainers once you tested them?

[@gplama]

This one I'll shape into a bullet proof vest for what's invenvitally coming my way for posting this review. (It depends. If I can keep the trainer for the predicted support lifespan, I prefer that. This way I can cover firmware updates/fixes/etc. The CORE is a good example here. Otherwise they're boxed up and sent back.)

[@jimwilliams2239]

How does this compare to the Bkool Air that you've been testing?

[@gplama]

Similar. Stay tuned for that one....

[@LukeGJPotter]

Hi Shane, All I want to know is; 1. Will this make me a better Zwift Sprinter than the Hammer H2? 2. Will this make me as good a Zwift TTer than that Elite Turbo Muin? I need this for my super important Cat C Races so I can get tonnes of sponsorship money, or something.

[@heytreacle]

Luke GJ Potter You nearly had me there...

[@ryandowney5798]

My KK Road Machine with the inride sensors was my meat and potatoes for years. Solid. But obviously not a DD. So is this rendition of a DD the result of what happens when non-cyclists create a product, when IT folks are near retirement, folks making products in a bubble, or all of the above? It makes me sad to see something produced that has all the classic mistakes that others have made and ultimately learned from. I feel like this greatly devalues the other products they make even though they still make really good non-DD trainers.

[@alexanderwendelbo1447]

wow, so noisy! thanks for the video!

[@mandomasahista08]

Does this support AXS?

[@gplama]

I have no idea off the top of my head. With my current budget I won't ever have this issue either. Damn that stuff is expensive. Kinetic may have this information listed on their website.

[@Choedron]

Looks like it is the Assioma that is the one going up and down and not the Kenetic, in steady state.

[@gamecat1923]

in summary then : ooft

[@nickrea1969]

I'd steer clear of anything to do with Kurt Kinetic especially if you want to use an android device. Head on over to their website and see the number of people complaining about the app crashing. I didn't think about that before I bought it and you can imagine how frustrating it is half way through a ride to have the app crash and lose all your data. It's been an issue for a few years by the looks of things and they can't be bothered to sort it out properly. It leaves you with a near useless trainer where you can pedal blindly unless you are subscribing to Zwift or similar. Mine also leans to the left. If you look closely at the video you can see theirs does to as the right foot comes off the ground. Common occurrence judging by the forums. You can dismantle and reassemble the mechanism to see if that works or as one person suggested stick a magazine under the foot to raise it up. I don't expect to do that after spending hundreds on a trainer. If you really want to see how much they care about the customer, look at how old their videos are on KZbin. Says it all really. The rock and roll seemed like a good idea but you'd be better off spending your money with one of the more established manufacturers.

[@thejohnalien60]

I definitely prefer the kinetic R1, regardless of the amount of noise… Seems to more closely emulate outdoor riding, which is what I prefer and why I have given away or sold at least a half dozen stationary trainers. There is no comparison to real world training, period.

[@gplama]

I hope Kinetic can get on top of their firmware game and improve the few things that keep this unit back as a contender for accuracy and data reporting.

[@heytreacle]

Does feel like Kinetic are a company that like to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in the Smart trainer market. Refused to pay to license the communication protocols and limited their trainers for years, now that’s sorted and they’ve missed to boat re: sound. All their competitors have moved on, quite rightly, to silent trainers now. I can’t trust a company where there’s always a significant catch.

[@heytreacle]

My word, those one “stabilisers” in the ad look HORRENDOUS 😳

[@barryhambly7711]

Trouble is the price of all these smart trainers and none of them are reliable if you pay out that much you should not have to hope that you drop lucky for one that's OK

[@johnora3857]

Too loud. End of story.

[@gplama]

This video took me a few days of riding, re-riding new firmware, and putting the video together. I should have taken this advice. :)

[@dpstrial]

I agree. An essential feature of indoor trainers is that they do not annoy the neighbours. This one fails miserably.

[@dmalcantara]

Super ugly ! Kudos