EPISODE 2 - Scott & Mark Learn To... How Not to Ship the Org Chart

[@takistewart3404]

I really like the format where you're sitting within your own .mov windows. So nostalgic at the same time

[@Lucas-dq9wf]

I like the attention to detail, with the seek bars moving in the windows as the video plays😊

[@dwainbrowne]

Another great episode!! A book I recommend is The Phoenix Project, which has a great introductory foundation for understanding how to effectively ship projects; it's very insightful about the intersection between business and tech in a storytelling format.

[@colhountech]

#Recommendation: A really great way to not ship the Org Chart and to "Shift Left" in the context of Cloud Migration, is investigate Azure Landing Zones (ALZ) - see the Ready Stage of the Cloud Adoption Framework - I've learnt so much about this recently! Really like this format folks!

[@bitelogger]

Amazing episode, just the intro taught me more than years of “training”

[@ChristianMogensen]

Shipping the org chart = Conway's Law. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_law

[@gilesmiles8458]

Certainly close, but not all departmental systems are products.

[@KevinStevens-kevdog]

Kind of. Conway's Law is that the software follows the communication pattern of the organization, which is usually radically different than the org chart.

[@van_dutch]

I have been speaking to this for years, and always surprised at how many people know the symptoms, but don't realize it's a real phenomenon in the industry.

[@KowalskiTom]

💯 If you find yourself "shipping the org chart" and you don't like it then there is an issue with the org chart. Conway's law wins out every time.

[@Johncrowther]

I like this format. You guys are always interesting to listen to and whilst I could spend hours doing that, I prefer these short, single-subject focused episodes. There's plenty of other ramble-banter podcasts out there so please try hard not to evolve into another!

[@Gonkers44]

This is stuff that I wish I knew in the beginning of my career. This is great information and I love the conversational format.

[@AndersKeisHansen]

Very interesting as usual with you two ;) thx

[@victornoagbodji]

Incredibly interesting episode! Thank guys 🙏 😊 I learned a name/expression I can put on the same phenomenon I have noticed. It goes beyond a single organization sometimes. When it comes to the web, I truly empathize with developers when the same website behaves differently depending on the application you use to access it. We may need another term to describe that global kind of interoperability 😊

[@jazzweather]

Two of my favorite guys at Microsoft 💛

[@tonoso]

Books: 1.Team topologies, 2.Accelerate, 3.Clean Architecture

[@bigp3t3_cpt]

I seem to love every video with Scott or Mark talking off the cuff. Also thanks for sysintetnals Mark!

[@Rakibulislam-vq3yj]

Great podcast, I like this one

[@lukemurraynz]

Awesome nice one! To be fair, Scott, I would have been put off by the fonts as well! I had come across Ship the org chart in the past, but it's not something I have heard in a while, it's a great reminder of that phrase, though! From a people and process perspective, I think it is having that DACI (Driver, Approver, Contributors, Informed) model well defined - and then the product framework 'shifting left' - let the tooling do the work! I would love a conversion around - when is it good enough?! Perfection is the enemy of good, if you aim for perfection - nothing ever gets shipped, as your constantly moving that invisible goalpost! How do you decide the 'lets just get it shipped and YOLO' vs 'no we need to work a bit more on that'!

[@mveteanu]

Microsoft had great UX standards during Windows 9x days. It included guidelines for how to align the controls on the screen, where to place the "Properties" menu, etc. In a world of minimalistic UIs, standards are even more important. In other industries (e.g. semiconductors, etc.) all companies follow the same standards -- same pitch between connectors, same voltage level, etc.... but in the software industry, we are still figuring out how to align standards across the board.

[@nonlinearsound-001]

Everyone is shipping his org chart actually. You just want to make that chart so good, your product will be good as well :)

[@jimshtepa5423]

Scott, amazing presentation. thank you for sharing knowledge. what license is this video under? can I use it for kaggle competition that has been announced today by gemini team exploring long context abilities of their gemini 1.5 model?

[@petropzqi]

This is gold

[@7alken]

this will be great guys, tnx;

[@itsandytails]

These are great! Really useful information. Different fonts in a PowerPoint is grating, no way i could tolerate that in my car.

[@KowalskiTom]

If you find yourself "shipping the org chart" and you don't like it then there is an issue with the org chart. Conway's law wins out every time.

[@mveteanu]

I think Azure started from the PaaS perspective (innovative for the time) and then moved into IaaS. This is different to how other clouds started!

[@nothingisreal6345]

Write the book about "Not shipping the org chart"! IMHO the peek of UI design consistency was Windows 2000 times. It was very down to earth and functional. Not only MS complied to it but most of the SW vendors in the eco system. Everything looked and felt like a native Windows app. The focus was on features, not on making the UI look fancy. The reason was the developing features was really challenging and everybody wanted to use the design language that MS provided (for free) so they would not need to invent this themselves. Today UI/UX is completely inconsistent and it is getting worth every day. I'm sorry to say: but the new Outlook is one of the worst examples.

[@tj2375]

If you were in a car from a legacy manufacturer they weren't android tablets! For example the instrument cluster runs a real time OS and the UI is developed specifically. The only place you can find android is in the multimedia unit but even there is specifical hardware running an hypervisor with a real time OS taking care of talking to the other auto parts and a separate android instance. They're not android tablets. And that's the main reason the aesthetics are not consistent. Of course a car is an integration of multiple systems, and many are sourced from specialized manufacturers. Auto companies don't manufacture 100% of the vehicle.

[@AvineshSinghSaab]

You can still do aspnetcore containers on Windows Server 2022 ;)

[@geofry]

Another great episode. Love the balance you guys have with this. Tech tangents and gold. Now, this might sound weird, and feel free to ignore it, but in this video (kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGLcipaLe997aKM), I noticed a pinkish mark on Scott's right wrist, on the pinky side. I think I have something similar on both of my wrists. From time to time, people notice mine and ask me about it. Is this something a lot of coders get from keyboard rests and such? Mine aren't usually pink or red, but they're visible and look like a large, puffy callus.

[@CheesyAceGameplay]

As someone that builds Microsoft applications - I wish we could build graphics as sleek as Apple. Your app will look nothing like the rest and give a weird user experience if you deviate too far from the standards

[@ankur-dhama]

Imagine if all the different online meeting software start using one window per participant video.

[@laszlo6501]

Did you find any good reads about these topics?

[@alx9r]

Please keep publishing these conversations until Mark runs out of things to say.

[@idlewise]

Conway's Law

[@9rune5]

I think laptops were hit extra hard by the CPU family cutoff since they tend to use older CPU generations. I have a Dell Precision with a 4k UHD touch screen and 32GB memory. It was bought in 2012 or so. But the CPU (i7 920 IIRC) is too old for Win11. It is still a decently specced PC, so sustainability-wise it feels wrong to just dispose of it. (I'll install Linux eventually, no worries)

[@9rune5]

My memory is not good. The laptop in question was bought in 2016 and has a Intel Core i7-6820HQ CPU. So, an 8 year old PC is either discarded or refurbished with Linux. I would also like to point out: XBox is designed to fail. Its SSD device is married to the mainboard and you cannot even back it up in case it fails. Once the SSD fails, the XBox is dead in the water. Whenever Microsoft discusses "sustainability", think about that a little bit... They are directly responsible for mountains of e-waste BY DESIGN!

[@ravindraboddipalli4182]

Unfortunately that is how "International Auto companies" work :), each of the units are "sourced" from different suppliers, and it looks like the suppliers are setting the standards.

[@ndamulelosbg8887]

I would like to learn about the feasibility of data marts and how the principle of one lake can possibly lead to non-useful data stored forever

[@madoksback]

It’s now starting to sound like a big Microsoft advert to your podcast

[@FlorianZevedei]

@shanselman would be interesting, if it fits, getting some insights and ideas on "how to do's" from Mark about the SysInternals times back in the day, yep im from these times 😀