Shared Psychotic Disorder & Mystical Delusions | Folie à deux

This video answers the questions: Can I provide a comprehensive analysis of Folie à deux (shared psychotic disorder)? What is the relationship between Folie à deux and homicide? What are persecutory and mystical delusions?
Support Dr. Grande on Patreon: / drgrande
American Psychiatric Association. (2013). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (5th ed.). Arlington, VA: Author.
Guivarch, J., Piercecchi-Marti, M. D., & Poinso, F. (2018). Folie à deux and homicide: Literature review and study of a complex clinical case. International Journal of Law and Psychiatry, 61, 30-39. doi:10.1016/j.ijlp.2018.10.001
Catanesi, R., Punzi, G., Rodriguez, W. C., Solarino, B., & Di Vella, G. (2013). Faith, Folie à Famille, and Mummification: A Brief Review of the Literature and a Rare Case Report. Journal of Forensic Sciences, 59(1), 274-280. doi:10.1111/1556-4029.12264
Caribé, A. C., Daltro-Oliveira, R., Araújo, R. H., Cardoso, A. P., Guimarães, P. B., Miranda-Scippa, Â., & Quarantini, L. C. (2013). Systemic lupus, folie a trois and homicide. Comprehensive Psychiatry, 54(7), 1032-1033. doi:10.1016/j.comppsych.2013.04.011
Bourgeois, M. L., Duhamel, P., & Verdoux, H. (1992). Delusional Parasitosis: Folie à Deux and Attempted Murder of a Family Doctor. British Journal of Psychiatry, 161(05), 709-711. doi:10.1192/bjp.161.5.709
MEDLICOTT, R. W. (1955). PARANOIA OF THE EXALTED TYPE IN A SETTING OF FOLIE A DEUX. A STUDY OF TWO ADOLESCENT HOMICIDES. British Journal of Medical Psychology, 28(4), 205-223. doi:10.1111/j.2044-8341.1955.tb00896.x
Christodoulou, G. N. (1970). TWO CASES OF, FOLIE À DEUX IN HUSBAND AND WIFE. Acta Psychiatrica Scandinavica, 46(4), 413-419. doi:10.1111/j.1600-0447.1970.tb02130.x
Nicolò, G., Carcione, A., Semerari, A., & Dimaggio, G. (2007). Reaching the covert, fragile side of patients: The case of narcissistic personality disorder. Journal of Clinical Psychology, 63(2), 141-152. doi:10.1002/jclp.20337
www.ncbi.nlm.n...

[@breedlejuice8691]

I had something similar to this when o was a teenager. I had a really intense friendship with this person and it was wild. We shared hallucinations, voices, delusions, this sense of grandeur. I still have this intense, irrational pull towards this person and I recognize obsessive urges. I have to stop myself from trying to reach out and remind myself that it serves no purpose, despite not being friends for years. I don’t think either of us necessarily had any of those mental illnesses, we just sent each other into a really unhealthy feedback loop where we confirmed each other’s madness.

[@breedlejuice8691]

@F C we had a messy friend breakup and I kind of woke up. Honestly nothing anyone said helped :( this needs professional help, not some crazy rando on the internet, unfortunately

[@Lizziee247]

If you don’t mind me asking, what sort of hallucinations? Does the friend actually tell u that they’re seeing this thing and then somehow you start to see it too? Also did you have similar traumas in life or any similarities that made the bond unusually intense?

[@Lizziee247]

@F C what kind of delusions is it okay if i ask for an example?

[@tracesprite6078]

I wonder if the QAnon followers are experiencing this, or the anti-vaxxers.

[@raklibra]

There are real, tangible reasons for this. Definitely some structural functional reasons uncovered by further analysis. I feel many people suffer disorders that might go undiagnosed. Be careful of that intense pull, that sounds scary. If it recurs or compounds you should seek professional help. It could be potentially fatal to downplay this, because society sees something as sub clinical or something else doesn’t mean it is. The brain is a strange organ, and it’s intricacies are doubly strange. I wish you well.

[@spinsterpunk]

Welcome to my scientifically informed insider window of sanity where I will not think about social distancing or Corona for at least ten minutes by watching someone discuss psychiatric illness.

[@codybarrett4672]

i'm trying to do the same but you just ruined it for me by mentioning it, THANKS! :P

[@spinsterpunk]

@@codybarrett4672 I realised once I read that. Sorry cody x

[@tuck-brainwks-eutent-hidva1098]

Good for you -- I didn't manage this; first thing I thought of, especially with this one, is that "stay at home" would lend itself to this one! ☻

[@t5396]

@@spinsterpunk I appreciate your comment.

[@LisaMaryification]

It's called 'physical distancing' now. Get with the program! lol.

[@evelynwaugh4053]

`Life can imitate prison conditions' . Very scary words, Dr. Grande.

[@amywing175]

I suffered from this as a child when I was in my teens. I recall it starting when I was about 13 and continued until my late teens when I moved out of the house. My mother's delusional disorder was focused on mystical delusions and unrealistic beliefs. For example, she believed we would be rich some day and God wanted us to create an "Ark" that was essentially a biosphere and would keep people alive during the apocalypse. She believed she would meet and marry a particular celebrity (I won't name who it was, but anyone reading this would likely know of the person). I was very socially isolated due to a move that put me in an inner city school where I didn't make friends and due to estrangement from our religious community, which was a large part of my childhood. It was the most stressful period of my life to that time (parents divorced, mom got involved with someone who turned out to be violent). The really interesting thing is that my best friend also bought into these delusions. She wasn't socially isolated and came from a healthy, supportive family. Maybe she just enjoyed the magical thinking. In our 20s, she tentatively approached me and said, "uhhh... what was all that with your mom when we were kids?" We both recognized the delusions for what they were once we moved on to our young adult lives. I believe that at least one of my brothers shared these delusions, as well. Another brother has grown up to have a delusional disorder himself, which had some signs of developing even in early childhood. Yet another brother who has estranged himself from the family recently told our sister about something that happened in his childhood which is entirely delusional - it was a dramatic thing that actually never happened... so it appears that genetics really must play a role. Fortunately, no one in my immediate family has ever become violent or had paranoid delusions that would likely lead to violence. My mother's delusions were more about angels and being chosen by God rather than persecutory demons. My brother who has had issues since childhood does have some paranoid delusions, but they tend to be more of the variety of people watching him through his computer camera and the government being untrustworthy - not patently false or bizarre, but in day-to-day life definitely seem more "out there" than what most people believe. I suspect folie a deux is actually a lot more common than we know. There's nothing about my family's history that would bring us to the attention of anyone who would document the condition - my mother was simply "eccentric," and while she had a psychiatric history, she was not receiving any treatment during the years my siblings and I were drawn into her delusions. Also very interesting is that my maternal grandmother, the estranged brother, and my mother all have documented or suspected dissociative disorders. I should write a book.

[@AndreJohnMarshall]

Meh, dysfunctional family with delusional overzealous-spirituality, what else is new? 😔😵‍💫

[@ComfyyCozyyASMR]

So happy your channel got recommended! I just binge watched several videos over the last few hours. Love your content ❤️

[@harrie4667]

Not exactly related to the video itself, but I love the little intro to every video. As soon as you click on one, you know you're going to hear scientific, really accurate information. As a psychology student I find this channel super helpful, so compliments and thank you dr. Grande. Great work.

[@beththomas4153]

How are you able to produce these in-depth, high quality mini-lectures so often? I don't know how you prepare and get them done, but I know it's a lot of work.

[@jacklevenstein9305]

mta or maby that’s his job?

[@ZombieMannequinRobotStatue]

I've been SO HAPPY since I found Dr. Grande! The only way I've been getting any housework done these days is when I'm listening to these videos. I have ADHD and can I never finish washing my dishes, but now I wash all the dishes, put them away and tidy my entire kitchen twice every day 😊 My husband has even noticed and wants to say thank you for whatever it is you do that makes my wife focus!

[@tennstedt]

Me, a frenchman that clicked on the video too fast to have red the title: -What is fully ado? *goes check the title* -Oooooh "Folie à deux"!

[@mrs.reluctant4095]

He's so sweet. You're right, it sounds like "fully ado" ! 😊

[@junepeyer1200]

Damien Lancelle ....homophones are tricky as is pronunciation !!

[@leprophete364]

j'ai entendu folie à doux

[@leprophete364]

@@junepeyer1200 criticizing pronunciation is a French principle, let it go

[@luminousfaedust]

Yeah, fully ado is throwing me for a loop too. Like, it's been a decade since I've studied french but I was expecting something like "fwalay a doo" xD

[@junepeyer1200]

Thank you for this discussion. My mother, who passed away 4 years ago suffered delusions. When I was a young girl, my mother told me I experienced a visitation by the Virgin Mary and baby Jesus at age 2. I realize false memories are especially easy to ‘plant’ at these very young ages. She made sure I drew Nativity pictures at Christmas thereafter. She tried to convince my family that our house was haunted saying she heard voices in the house, saw shadowy figures and had contacted spirits on a Ouija board. She told me and my 6 siblings that she encountered the Devil in her neighborhood as a young girl. She used to have me and a sibling or two watch as she used her telekinetic ability to move hanging flower baskets and cause our neighbor to trip while walking up his front walk. The flower basket NEVER moved and our neighbor NEVER tripped, but she insisted she was successful in both attempts. My sister and I were often asked to observe her mental feats. Both my sister and I have speech difficulties. I repeated second grade at my mother’s insistence... interesting, huh? As my siblings and I grew up, my mother maintained her delusions, even telling us after she divorced my father that she’d had a visitation by Jesus who took her hand. She said his hand was warm and very real. She said Jesus promised to help her out of her desperate situation. Several months before her death, she told me she had sensed a presence in the house. She said it wasn’t “threatening.” My mother was a parentified child and an adult child of an alcoholic father. She was coerced by her father to quit school at age 14 to help her visually handicapped mother and care for her 6 younger siblings. She may have been sexually abused, but I’m unsure, as there are only hints at this from the stories she told. Her grand-aunt suffered delusions..my mother always said the grand- aunt “saw things that weren’t there” and “knitted imaginary socks in the mental institution.” Maybe my aunt was schizophrenic- a diagnosis was never mentioned. I’m studying psychology (I’m a retired police officer who had 24 years on the job) and I decided after my mother’s death to discover the reasons for her very narcissistic and delusional behavior. It’s good to have answers to so many of the questions I had about why my mother behaved in such a self serving manner and in such bizarre ways.

[@tuck-brainwks-eutent-hidva1098]

What a painful experience you and your siblings had growing up! (And your mom, too....) I am so glad you are engaging healing around this -- and grateful for your resiliency and your own commitment to others' well-being (in your career)! Blessings as you move forward. ... 😌🙏

[@junepeyer1200]

TUCK - Hidden Values thanks! I live by Jung’s quote, “Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.” Healing is out there for anyone who can really take that and run with it!

[@tuck-brainwks-eutent-hidva1098]

@@junepeyer1200 Amen! Awareness is a gift.... 😉

[@junepeyer1200]

Indeed! After my mother’s death, I grieved not for the death of the mother I had, but also the one I didn’t. I journaled and decided to write a book about my experience growing up. Hoping for a 2021 publishing date. Writing is so cathartic!!!

[@tuck-brainwks-eutent-hidva1098]

@@junepeyer1200 I would love to read it -- let me know when it's out - ?!

[@TheRocknrollmaniac]

Manson family is the perfect case for a case study-most possible the imposed and communicated subtypes are there, and of course violence

[@meganmoore9811]

Also Jim Jones, Heavens Gate? Don't know if that qualifies.

[@franmellor9843]

And DRUGS

[@meganmoore9811]

@@franmellor9843 yes, because of the drugs, plus what they're doing is wrong. Not sure what the parameters are.

[@franmellor9843]

@@meganmoore9811 Manson groomed his so called disciples with drugs but of course sociopathy came into play too

[@meganmoore9811]

@@franmellor9843 very scary.

[@mrs.reluctant4095]

Oh, Lord that sounds cute, the doctor pronounces a French word. I already liked him trying to say German and Austrian words like "Schadenfreude" and "Sigmund Freud" but this is even better...! 😊 Thank you doc. You know, as an eastern cotton tail these days I'm a bit under stress, and I love being distracted by this. hHighly appreciate the topic!!!!! Have a great day. 🐰🥚🥚🥚💚

[@joanlynch5271]

Bonjour Mon amie! Comment vas tú?

[@mrs.reluctant4095]

@@joanlynch5271 Très bien, ma cherie! Et toi? Je suis allemande, mais j'ai vecu plusieurs années près de la France. Et toi?

[@LisaMaryification]

Isn't Schadenfreude the German term where one feels happy when others fail? As in 'Throwing Schade'.

[@mrs.reluctant4095]

@@LisaMaryification No. That's seemingly what Americans made out of this German term. Even Dr. G. made this mistake, I was shocked. He took the term literally in one of his vids. It has nothing to do with throwing shade and other bullying techniques. I think in the US people experience the German version of Schadenfreude, when they write "XY got his/her karma" but it's far more discreet with a bit of self-irony. More similar to British humour. I think it's not part of the US culture.

[@asho345]

Could you possibly talk about transference between patients and therapists? Why does it happen and what internal/external factors make people more prone?

[@outlawJosieFox]

And when has it ended up with a therapist murdered or stalked.

[@adityawankhede7260]

Joker scenario?

[@GrandadsLounge]

While I know this isn't aimed at certain members of the DID community, your timing couldn't have been better. This is such an accurate description of Dissociadid, teampinata and their little cult of 14 year olds. I love you man, I just love you.

[@madimi156]

i was looking for a comment just like this one.

[@mardiheffernan329]

Such an interesting topic. There are so many incidents that come to mind with this phenomomen, eg: the Parker/Hulme case, Slender Man case and even the Papin sister's. It's amazes me how one person is able to get that control over someone else to get them to believe and think what they think.

[@HumanimalChannel]

Most excellent and timely As I think Lori Vallow and The Chad could be a case of folie a deux, ('duhr') Chad had an experience of 'seeing into another dimension" then started to write books .... doomsday type themes...and is a Visioner. Lori loves his books, started reading them a year and half prior to meeting chad. Met chad in 2018 and started telling family she was a god, I think she was right with Chad from first meeting...a powderkeg. Chad said they had been married in another life. Killings and disappearances ensued. Let's listen to what we Grande says... Delusions mystical thinking Fear of/being separated (spouses in way), Murder of close family Tick tick tick tick tick

[@lousunny5682]

They had crossed my mind when I was listening to his content. I had imagined that Lori likely has some sort of range of disorders that involved psychosis.

[@lousunny5682]

Not very sure about Chad. But just sitting on my gut feeling, some sort of PD maybe.

[@franmellor9843]

BOOOOOOOM!!!

[@HumanimalChannel]

@@lousunny5682 dark triad...perhaps. Machiavellianism. Psychopath Narcassist I made vids about it 2 weeks ago stating my idea of folie a deux and asking for people's opinions, about Lori and brother Alex too

[@HumanimalChannel]

@@lousunny5682 they are just so fascinating aren't they. I know it's a bit morbid because real people have died and real children, Tylee and JJ are missing ( possible they are being hidden but I think it's more likely those poor kids are dead).

[@kathrinjohnson2582]

🤩🤩🤩 Wow this is your most fascinating video yet!!! Thank you!!! Please do the full case studies on those three cases you mentioned.

[@ForwardLooking832]

As you were talking about some examples I was immediately recalling the murders by Parker and Hulme and captured in the movie by Peter Jackson called Heavenly Creatures. Then boom. You did.

[@sushanbaretto7558]

Also check the Burari Deaths in Delhi

[@BeigeRecluse]

I really appreciate your channel. I just graduated my PhD in Counseling Ed & Supervision program in December and it has been a rough go, ever since. My faculty position interviews all got postponed, indefinitely, due to COVID-related shutdowns. Most agencies are currently on hiring freeze. As is the case for so many, the future is looking quite bleak. I am adjuncting two courses that transferred to virtual and will continue to do so through next semester, so I do feel fortunate in the sense that I still earn some income. Emphasis on “some”. Anyhow, I came across your channel a few weeks ago and something about your approach clicks with me. Watching your videos has served to fill a certain void, as I miss live time with my student and my light client load. While I am still thoroughly exhausted from my program, I am at the same time, uneasy with my perceived lack of productivity and momentum. Together, they create quite the paradox. Mandated isolation only further complicate the whole scenario. I came across your video about whether pursuing a PhD in the field is worth it and concur with your perspective. It was also very normalizing to hear you state that it does, indeed, take awhile to reconstitute after going through something so intense. Anyhow, thank you for the content.

[@OneLittleHero]

Can you answer the question how does being bullied in school effect one's mental health what long term consequences it may have and also what to do in such situation both as the kid and as a parent

[@joeschmoe7510]

It is the root of School shootings,, in my opinion. High school kids think school is the whole world. They're not emotionally developed enough to think outside the box. That it's a temporary situation.

[@michaelchitwood389]

I am a long time reader of Jung, and find Psychiatry very interesting...but i almost long for the days of Eccentricity. Now, virtually ANY great artist, in ANY media, would be saddled with a Psychiatric disorder...not to mention ANY highly spiritual person. If it causes no overt harm, i see no problem with being off in the head. Regardless...great content, Doc!

[@stephenpowstinger733]

Reminds me of the movie “Pretty Poison” with Anthony Perkins and Tuesday Weld 1968 in which a mentally disturbed young man tells a pretty girl that he’s a secret agent. She believes him - then the fun begins.

[@user-kf6et6jd1b]

SEPARATION FROM DELUSIONAL PERSON/S IS DEFINITELY HELPFUL. THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN DR GRANDE ! HELPED ME KNOCK DOWN THE GIANT OF FEAR I HAD ABOUT DISTANCING MYSELF FROM A POTENTIALLY HARMFUL ASSOCIATION.

[@thegingerunicorn178]

This sounds exactly what my mother put my younger brother through. We fully believed that “tall man” as my mother called the entity, was harming our mother and ourselves. We were gripped with fear because of this. She never tried to kill anyone however she DID abuse and neglect us and blamed her actions on tall man irritating her.

[@H..........]

I'm so sorry

[@pocoeagle2]

An Excellent and Very Interesting Deep Dive Video, Dr. Grande. Merci beaucoup 😃🇳🇱

[@marceef5028]

Yeaaaaaaayyy! A new Dr.Grande on Friday!!

[@clayandputtyvideos1647]

Oh I just remember talking to an assistant professor of Dr. Jeffrey M. Schwartz at UCLA who claimed that people who have OCD don't have psychotic elements of perception. He thinks that a person thinking that she can read people's minds and thoughts is psychotic. I question both beliefs. I talked to several people including psychiatrists and psychologists who accept the mainstream view of this professor. OCD has a very wide spectrum of intensity and some forms not only border psychosis but are actually persecutory and highly irrational. OCD simply means they are trying to "ward off" the things they are afraid of and it gradually fades over into religious rituals without any threshold markings. I'm not saying that all religious rituals come from complete irrationality. There are some rituals such as the Indian Pujas that have a rational basis. But most religious rituals quickly enter into psycho pathology. Then the term psychotic is equally gradient in the way that someone can be completely irrationally paranoid or delusional or someone can be very rational, calm, clear minded, clearly discerning things and having the ability and intuition (psychic skills) to recognize energies. Most people are somewhere in between the irrational thinking and the intuitive perception which makes it so incredibly difficult to figure out who is rational and who is not and it washes everything into the pathology file.

[@clayandputtyvideos1647]

Now this subject goes right into my interest range. Thank you for talking about this in a completely neutral way without judgment or preconception. This is the margin point of science. One group of people which is the majority of academics dismisses looking at this from any other viewpoint other than Newtonian physics linearity. A small percentage of scholars are completely open for diving into the matter of non linearity such as Dr. Rupert Sheldrake and Dr. Bruce Lipton. The majority of humans in general are not informed and like to attribute their religion or make belief into things but those are not interested in facts and rationality anyway. It's the golden middle way of total scientific openness towards the margins of scientific knowledge that works because that is the path forward.

[@eukaryote]

Whoa! I was just thinking of this this morning because of the Vallow/Daybell case and wondering if this fits.

[@rejaneoliveira5019]

Interesting analysis as usual Dr. Grande! Your videos are the best part of my day:) Stay healthy and safe.

[@mrs.reluctant4095]

Stay healthy and safe, too, Rejane.🌸

[@rejaneoliveira5019]

Mrs. Reluctant Thank you Esther, you too! ❤️

[@cindyrhodes]

Thank you for this. This is of major interest to me.

[@dianamarie5663]

The 1994 movie Heavenly Creatures with Kate Winslet as the passive partner is about those two girls Dr. Grande mentions. They acted out fantasies and plotted to kill her mother who tried to separate them. This happened in the 1950's in Australia.

[@dianamarie5663]

I wish I could find this movie to watch it again. It appears to be unavailable. I got a couple things wrong here. They lived in New Zealand and Winslet played the primary person in the relationship. The other girl's mother was the one murdered. It was Winslet's first film and she was awesome in it.

[@t5396]

Thank you, Dr. Grande. These videos are a much needed diversion from the insanity of the world. I know that I already requested a video on transgenderism, and I was thinking that it may also make sense to discuss crossdressing, and what differentiates the one from the other.

[@MrSerpico145]

Have you ever discussed the phenomena of people believing they're being gang-stalked? There are a lot of them online, even KZbin.

[@jgjoargdziarj1826]

Life imitates art, so it seems to happen now and then, I suppose.

[@franny231123DMT]

lol my fav chill channels. it's highlarious.

[@joanlynch5271]

It would be like paranoid personality disorder.

[@MrSerpico145]

@@pegb8739 not sure the cause for this delusional paranoia, but there are many cases to look at here on KZbin. They all believe everyone around them in public is in a conspiracy against them, stalking them.

[@franny231123DMT]

it's a misuse/understanding of a technical term in security agency type places. I have PhD authored books on the subject. (as well as other media) yes "gang stalking" exists. no it is not these poor folk on the internet uploading videos of normal people doing normal things that I find entertaining. it's not ya neighbors making hand signals, it's CIA techniques for certain activities {rare}. it's just paranoia fashion / trending... people feel more important if they believe that there is a large scale operation involving them selves. what used to be described for "tin foil hat" people. a sense of importance is the delusion vector. *drops mic*

[@maxpanicked1451]

Seems reasonable to conclude that a similar environment (jail vs. general isolation) would precipitate similar outcomes, as it relates to Folie a Deux. Thanks for taking the time to look at this rare disease; adding outliers like this to your ongoing chronicle helps fill out the scope. Thank you, Dr. Grande!

[@juliegarceau5414]

Very interesting ! Merci beaucoup Dr Grande pour votre excellent travail ! from Québec, Canada 🙂

[@justme-ld9xz]

Interesting video! Dr Todd, could you do another video analyzing a psychoanalytic casestudy in depth? I want to grow my insight in psychiatric illness. What I do with my students is I explain my thought processes when assessing a patient and once I got an objective diagnosis I explain how every symptom I see corresponds with the underlying mechanism at work. I find that this style provided much insight when I was in training at an internal medicine department. I'm glad I'm subscribed to your channel, thank you for all your effort I truly appreciate it!

[@LazyFemme]

If you’re interested in this disorder I recommend Madness in the Fast Lane which is available on KZbin. Very intense and severe case.

[@kathrinjohnson2582]

Thank you

[@lornaginetteharrison7168]

This reminds me of the BBC documentary filmed in 2008 [but not aired until 2014 after the court case] titled: 'Madness in the Fast Lane’, which covered the bafflingly horrific events involving 2 Swedish identical twin sisters - Ursula Eriksson & Sabina Eriksson - who threw themselves in front of heavy traffic on the busy M6 UK motorway ON CAMERA, as the BBC was filming the latest in the long running TV series 'Traffic Cops'! But shockingly, without ANY apparent reason or warning, one of the sisters then went on to commit something even worse! [I won’t mention the godawful circumstances & plot spoilers here, but suffice it to say that the entirety of this case is completely worth watching, & the legal options available to the Judge were shockingly terrible.] During the subsequent trial, both sides agreed the Swedish twins were "insane" at the time of their offences. The prosecution’s forensic psychiatrist deemed their shared delusions were a classic case of a folie à deux...madness in two people; while the defence psychiatrist said it was “une bouffée de folie" instead...or "a puff of madness," an abruptly occurring transient state of psychosis that can quickly be resolved, & unlikely to happen again. Because years had past between the crimes & the trial, they were both now considered sane, meaning especially Sabina couldn’t be charged with murder, as she wasn’t insane, a danger to others, or herself anymore! Their psychoses were ruled as merely fleeting! If you haven’t watched this program before, the appalling images of those 2 women running straight into substantially fast moving traffic - & the no doubt severe PTSD suffered by the police witnesses, who were *THEN* attacked by the injured twins as they began fighting the police (who were valiantly trying to administer first aid & do their very best to help these psychotic sisters until the ambulances arrived), & accused the cops of trying to steal their organs [?!!]...& that’s not even the *WORST* part of what was to subsequently unfold! Anyway, here’s the link to this mentally-scarring, demented & puzzling unimaginable series of criminal offences committed by two siblings who, alas, _TOTALLY_ went off the deep end, sanity-wise! kzbin.info/www/bejne/jIXTd4qfet1mm9E

[@Pagan_Heart]

Interesting video. Being British, Fred & Rose West, Myra Hindley & Ian Brady come to mind...

[@kathrinjohnson2582]

I'm googling them right now 😁

[@Pagan_Heart]

@@kathrinjohnson2582 - if you want any links I have loads. I've read every book on the Wests & watched every video... I am as fascinated as I am repulsed but my interest in the human mind took me past that to study them. Just send me a note, here, & I'll gladly respond.

[@kathrinjohnson2582]

@@Pagan_Heart yes please send the links. Thank you so much.

[@Adara007]

@@Pagan_Heart May I ask what videos you'd recommend including any films? I have seen a few documentaries and the film "See No Evil: The Moors Murders" which starred Joanne Froggatt (who was excellent in the 'Liar' (TV series) and in the Australian film playing Joanne Lees in the 2007 movie, "Joanne Lees: Murder in the Outback") and I'm interested in the Wests and their children who survived the abuse so anything regarding the now grown surviving adults of the couple would he helpful.

[@JohnBeon]

Try watching "madness in the fast lane" on youtube. It is really interesting, its about twin sisters, it's how I first heard about madness in two.

[@HM-rw5dz]

At first I thought this was about the Fall Out Boy album 😅 thank you for this informative video and dedication to psychology education!

[@kellyteacherforlife7165]

The case of ANNE PERRY, the famous mystery writer, who participated in a MURDER as a teenager of her friend's mother has creeped me out for decades. ALL indications point to her being the "primary partner." Anne Perry is an English author of historical detective fiction, best known for her Thomas Pitt and William Monk series. In 1954, (the same year I was born as I am 65 now) when she was only FIFTEEN, she was convicted of participating in the murder of her friend's mother. They were both diagnosed with "folie a deux" and spent some time in psychiatric facilities. HOWEVER, it has troubled me my entire life that they went on to live "normal" (or at least "neurotypical") lives. How can this happen???

[@tressydoll68]

Thank you for sharing this information. I have recently begun researching Folie à deux because I believe this disorder possibly effected my family a few years ago. I wish I would’ve learned about this before the loss of my Mom, but now with an understanding of the torment these people endure, I’m thankful she has escaped it. 🙏🏼

[@allyson5712]

I believe my dog and I are developing this condition as we hang out together through this pandemic in isolation, but sounds likes there may be hope for me once this has passed and I’m able to get away. Seriously, I wonder if all the social-distancing could lead to an increase in Folie à deux?? Also, would the infamous Bonnie and Clyde probably have been diagnosed with this? Thank you, Dr. Grande, very interesting! Note to everyone: I’m only joking about my dog, I love him and enjoy every minute with him!!! 🐕❤️😊

[@xeno4746]

As long as you two don't murder the other familydogs, stay with the dog. Don't marry him/her. When your dog begins to speak in tongues... run. 😁😊

[@jamesowens972]

Doctor, thank you for your research on the subject and then your analysis. Lori and Chad might suffer from this. There is no Insanity defense in Idaho and I don't know if this condition would even apply. Are you interested in expressing an opinion based on the evidence that we know about their circumstance, or would you rather wait until the trial is over and all the evidence is in, before forming any fixed opinion?

[@simikatra3434]

Brilliant information, especially just now. Thank you Dr.Grande

[@danielledegeorge2129]

It shouldn't be considered rare, because if anyone has seen the movie Gaslight or been gaslighted, someone else's madness can easily pass to the person being gaslit and they will start sharing the gaslighter's delusions: for example, "they think I'm crazy, I must be crazy!" When only the gaslighter is the crazy one and doesn't even know it. And it also sounds like the DSM is making this sound crazier than it is, because gaslighting someone into a situation where both people end up looking crazy is pretty common.

[@Laudanum-gq3bl]

This condition interested me so much when I was in my MA psych program!

[@humanbeing-8037]

“You don’t listen, do you? You just ask the same questions every week. 'How’s your job? Are you having any negative thoughts?' All I have are negative thoughts.”

[@kathalloran5828]

I never heard of a non-violent murder... brought a smile to my face.

[@normasalamanca8558]

I bet the current case of Vallow and Daybell will turn out to be this type of thing.

[@joanlynch5271]

It is like a codependent relationship. I always wondered if the Chris Watts murder case had some aspects of this characteristic to it. He was dependent on his mother, then transferred this to his wife, then to the girlfriend. Movies like Psycho and the Shining seem like they fit these paradigms.

[@edgarturdelli1641]

Whatever they do to me, I'm a man. I'm not sittin' up here like I'm the biggest badass around, but you punch me and I'ma punch back (subdued snarling). And I can sit back and tell you my family name is secured, and I've done the job I'm supposed to do. It's not some power trip, it's just who I am. I look at Stephanopoulos and all these sacks of shit, sittin' there telling us they're gonna leave the country. Listen you son of a bitch. You're scared this country's gon' throw your carpetbaggin' ass out. I see you, you little bloodthirsty maggot. Whatever happens to me I just pray to God you get brought real low. Real low. For what you've done you little son of a bitch. So you understand one thing. There's a real world out there. There's a real God there's a real Devil. For every action there's an equal and opposite reaction. And I want all the little men to know somethin'. You were brought up as pieces of shit. And you thought you could dominate everybody 'cause you were so insecure. And you thought people that were better than you were bad because they were better than you, and they were building a stairway to heaven for you. And so now you've started fights with people, that are gonna break every bone in your body. So when you have metaphysically have had you sternum broken and your ribs broken, and your little neck... Strung up. You remember. You ran into real men. And we kicked your ass. - Alex Jones, November 11, 2016

[@stevezissou6655]

I read about this australian family that may have suffered from this, It played out just like you explained as well. You are excellent at your craft sir.

[@mayrawellington1130]

This is so interesting.....I’m learning so much thanks to you Dr. Grande. ❤️🙏🏼🌷

[@juliedestecroix1726]

Hi Dr. Grande, please make a video on religious trauma syndrome. TIA.

[@thegingerunicorn178]

Could this also include a mother imposing her delusions of ghosts or demons being in the home onto her children. I mean this in an extreme way where the children are lead to believe these entities will or are harmful to the mother and themselves.

[@franny231123DMT]

oh i am glad i caught this...havent been on utube much lately .. thanks a bunch Dr Grande, explains a bunch of things ive experienced as 3rd party observer, never heard of the term b4. :)

[@joywebster2678]

I had an elderly couple who were former Internees of wwii nazi prison camps. They had come to Canada post war. The wife came into hospital at age 85 with a severe urinary tract infection. She was mentally confused the nurses reported. Her husband brought her a meal daily and they whispered in their native language. As her infection receded, it became evident she was living in a fantasy world. We were all nazi or Germans who would report her. She wouldn't eat hospital food as it was poison. She'd switch between English and her Lang. Her husband came in and would enter the conversation with her and I about the nazi around us, the poisoned food, and yet he rode several buses to visit successfully, and cooked soups and stews for her alone. I had geriatric psychiatrist and the geriatric physician see them. The diagnosis was folie a deux. With a twist of aging to worsen things. Took a lot of trust but they revealed they had one daughter. Found her with much help. The couple lived in a narrow house always packed, in fear, no one in... ever since they immigrated. Father did work in steel industry. They did belong to a synogogue for a time. Daughter reported they always saw nazi everywhere. We had to let the woman go home even though she needed a Nursing home. The daughter with community support was going to try to get them both to go to a home together, a Jewish one. Very sad to see, but they were nice people.

[@madhuryabalan4118]

Thank you for that clear explanation, Dr Grande. I think Folie à deux presents much more often than diagnosed (not rare) but yes, the spectrum is wide and under studied.

[@jamesh8385]

Hi Dr Grande, can you do a video on Jimmy Savile? I think it'd be interesting. Thanks

[@lousunny5682]

James H wow I just googled him. Disgusting 😖

[@Insectoid_]

Worse than disgusting. Absolutely vile. A truly sick man. I recommend watching Louis Theroux meets Jimmy Saville it’s very creepy. It was prior to him being fully outed although people had a good idea before it aired.

[@jamesh8385]

I agree with all the above. I think it would be fascinating for the purposes of this channel for Dr Grande to delve into this man's psyche. I can see elements of narcissism, sociopathy/psychopathy and various personality disorders.

[@franmellor9843]

He certainly is Dark Subject Matter..i always thought he was just eccentric and his prolific charity work got him a Knighthood but I have never heard of any type of diagnosis for him DR GRANDE would certainly have his work cut out with this one,I hope he does have a go at it

[@lousunny5682]

Bug I didn’t want to look further when I first googled because I was horrified. Looked at one article and I can see he was evil af. Wished that there was justice before he had passed because he was a demon.

[@ambermartin3961]

This brings to mind the play/movie "Bug."

[@nobutterinhell]

the inducer (very interesting) affecting a weaker person with comorbid disorders major mood disorder such as bipolar persecutory delusion imposed psychosis communicated ideas then adopt ideas secondary delusions one person influences the other linked by strong relationship this is my mother and her husband who is bipolar yet my mother also triangulates with my younger brother the most spiritual residues of negative consciousness are taken on by living with or sleeping with someone (such as your significant other) lack of empathy two narcissists who believe that their awareness is the most correct outlook

[@cindyrhodes]

"Do the noises in my head bother you?" (From THE GODS MUST BE CRAZY)

[@jeanettewaverly2590]

Mermaid Mansion One of the best films ever made!

[@marychouvarda6875]

Can you make a video on the Silent twins ? That would be interesting.

[@modemarose4497]

That was Fascinating.. Thank You 🙏

[@BeingLifted]

Thank you. Aside from the Dieux part, this may explain my long-term stalker. We met at a bar when I/we were 18 and I gave him my number. After we talked a few times, I realized there was a disconnect. Not a scary one but enough for me to make excuses to not go out with him, excuses which rarely if ever included my mother. But I enjoyed most of our conversations and he expressed how glad he was to have me there because I was the only one who listened to him. As I was a prime example of Codependency at that time, we continued to talk. Evidently I was too nice. One day he called, angry that we weren't dating (I had no idea). He told me he was here to fight Satan, which was why he couldn't hold a job. He went on to tell me about one of his former bosses (I assume the most recent) and then cut over to my mother, whom he'd never met, and said that she herself was Satan, keeping he and I apart, and that he was sent to earth to kill Satan. Needless to say, that conversation ended pretty abruptly and I contacted a Psychiatrist and a Detective, both of whom I'd worked and maintained friendships with. The Dr. helped me understand that I had to avoid all contact and the cop checked and told me my "friend" was bouncing between a County Jail and a Center for the Criminally Insane. When I cut off phone contact, he still tried calling and also figured out where I lived. That was going on when legal restraining orders were in their infancy. I was told it wouldn't do any good because he always left when the Police arrived anyway. That's all a restraining order was good for. He'd knock a bit, then sit in the yard, waiting for me I guess, until the Police pulled in the drive, then leave. He walked and/or hitch-hiked from 15 to as many as 40 miles to see me. One Officer quietly suggested that I get a gun and invite him in to shoot him the next time he showed up. After I moved out on my own, he didn't have my number any more (before cell phones). He continued to call my Mom's house trying to reach me. Naturally she was no help to him and I was scared for her, especially until she moved from that house. (Dad died a few years earlier.) A phone company recording gave him my Mom's new number and he continued calling her but, thank God, never showed up at either of our places again. But the calls continued for another 18 years, sometimes collect calls from jail, often using the name Joe which wasn't his name but his voice was unmistakable, and sometimes there were long spurts of silence when, I assume, he was at the Center for the Criminally Insane. It's only a maybe because, interestingly, the first long spurt came right after a call to my Mom I found particularly scary. I went to a new meditation group (established but new to me) and we attempted to send healing light to someone's adversary so I thought to tell my story. The group suggested we meditate on him finding the peace within himself that he thought he found in me. It seemed to work. I maintained that practice for quite awhile, particularly when I was scared, which was always more for my Mom than myself under the circumstances. It would've been difficult to live with myself if something happened to her because of my foolishness. Anyway, my story doesn't directly correlate to this interesting and informative video, but the video is helpful. Now I'm even wondering about him calling as Joe. We found it silly that he kept using the same name with no luck, figuring he was trying to fool me/us. But just maybe he deluded himself into a whole new being? In any case, this was very interesting, Dr. Grande. Thanks for what you do.

[@irenemax3574]

Jane Nowak Wow, thank you for sharing your story, what a nightmare. But you probably won’t feel totally safe until you know that the fellow is dead. (I loved the cop’s suggestion that you get a gun and invite the mad guy in and kill him.)

[@BeingLifted]

@@irenemax3574 The cop's suggestion freaked me out! Another 20 years have passed since and I seldom think about it. The info in the video brought it back to mind. I've moved a couple of times since then and have kept my photos mostly inaccessible/private. I did have a scare with another stalker, an 81 year old man I volunteered to tutor in reading who went into dementia and wanted to kill my boyfriend at the time for getting between us (my student had a gun and the bf was around long before my student and was fine that I was tutoring him). More recently, I was concerned because a narcissistic roommate of 30 days threatened me with a gun. There were a few other unsavory characters, as well, which brings me full-circle to why I'm here on this channel. I needed to learn to recognize these people early on. It wouldn't have helped with the case of dementia because that came on suddenly but it has helped me otherwise. I appreciate your comment. Thank you! BTW, my mother has since passed (when I stopped hearing about his calls, assuming he was still calling). What hurt most was that I told a friend about that situation at a class reunion because she was there the night I met him and the calls were still coming. Evidently, she didn't believe me. I overheard her telling another former classmate, as though I made it up. Like having a scary stalker is something I would make up stories about. If I was going to make up a story to tell at to class reunions, it would be of successes! I've never been one to tell stories and hearing her retell it with her spin hurt. And I found it weird that she almost appeared envious when there was nothing at all to envy. I certainly didn't present it that way; I was scared.

[@Dead-3yez]

Preparing the new episode of my true crime podcast by listening to Dr. Grande :)) keep making great content!!

[@bxlovebx]

I personally have not seen a case of folie a deux but it is an interesting diagnosis. How would you approach such a patient dyad for counselling? I would imagine that separating the dyad may be necessary but sometimes not possible (related or married)

[@calicops951]

I suffered Induced Delusional Disorder, I thought marriage was a good idea! I spent way too much time with the primary partner I married. The auditory hallucinations initially came from family, friends, and society passively and actively maintaining that marriage was a good idea. Then the Family Court and Attorney auditory hallucinations of persecution began with me being the wrong doer because I am a man. I took a Red Pill, and I am all better now. Unfortunately most psychologists don’t have any clue how to prescribe the Red Pill.

[@amandaa4416]

When I think of a delusion of two I immediately think of Pauline Parker and Juliet Hulme (Anne perry)!!! The case you mentioned without the girls names lol

[@7heavenlyvirtues]

Howdy! Great video Dr. Grande!

[@TeddyAura]

Recently a French couple was arrested in Spain, trying to cross the border to go to Morocco. They carry with them their son , who they thought he was possessed by the devil. They were going to Morocco to sacrifice him. Luckily for the kid the Spanish police arrest his parents. That is when I hear about this psychological syndrome. Thanks Dr. Grande for your explanation

[@justinbjork5682]

Just like the movie “Bug.” Excellent movie. Please see it.

[@andreakoroknai1071]

yes!

[@vandurn21]

I learned something after watching this video, because I did not know about existence of folie a deux.🙂

[@MrsDaedalus_]

This reminds me a lot of a former aquaintance of mine, who probably has untreated schizophrenia and psychotic disorder. She is 45 and she had a rough upbringing. The thing with her is that, she has the tendency to lure other people in her psychosis and make other believe it as well. I got manipulated by her for a short amount of time until I snapped myself out of it, bc my rational science mind kicked in. From what I know is that I am not the only person she tried to do that and also that she had a specific target. This target is a friend of mine, who planned to visit her actually, before she had a psychosis in the group server on discord. She was rambling a lot of things that don´t makes sense and I informed one of the admins about her mental health. Like I am glad that this came out, bc god only knows what could happen when my friend actually visit her. She got kicked out of the server and that is the last time I´ve heard from her. She sent me a sms, that she got kicked out, although she wanted the address of two other people from the server. This got myself highly alarmed and also that she is still not aware that she has a serious problem that needs to take look on. I blocked her, like this is the only thing I can do. This is probably one of the most scariest thing I have ever experienced in my life.

[@janakakumara3836]

Wow. This sounds like incredibly dangerous condition. Leading to death and murder sounds inevitable. Thankfully it is so rare.

[@jukienebog6947]

I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the episode of x files named “folie a deux” but it reminds me a lot of the lori and chad daybell case right now with them thinking people are getting turned into “soulless zombies” and need to be killed

[@s4r4d3may]

Hi dr. Grande! Love your videos! I just wanted to mention, since you seem to often speek about "folie à deux", the "deux" is not mentionned like you would say "do" or "dew", but more like you would say "der", like the end of "grinder"! Keep up with the great content 👌👌

[@billhildebrand5053]

Comment 213: 3956 views, 327 likes, 4 non, 242k Subscribers Forgive me for my “Folie a deux” but it appears your name ❤️R. TO❤️❤️ Gran❤️e has none of the letters of C.O.V.I.D in it at all ( a la David I.C.K.E) - I certainly know everything - Great video Dr. Grande 😄😄 My feeble attempt at black humor. 😀😀 Keep those videos coming, they certainly distract me and keep my creativity abreast on events and topics. 😀😅😀

[@cybermollusk]

Fascinating! This makes me think of the "Slenderman murder" committed by two teenage girls years ago. One question; you mentioned that the delusions are exacerbated by being "cut off from the outside world." Are there any research papers elaborating on that specific point? Thank you.

[@abbysheridan1429]

Thanks for your insight. After breaking up with someone who cheated on and lied to me my ex moved approximately .5 miles away from where I lived. He used a private schools roads to peep at me during evenings. After a year or so he found another victim to call his girlfriend. Needless to say after he began that relationship the stalking rumor spreading and harassment from him the new victim and her friends. My original thought was he was narcissistic but adding this woman into his life only amplified the stalking and harassment. Would this qualify as flour a duex?

[@laurespitzner6321]

I love your French accent! ( I am French myself)

[@christinley5213]

This a big one..lotta info!!! Gotta watch twice lol. But verry interesting!:)

[@mrs.reluctant4095]

Doctor, may I ask you, your ancestors, the Grandes', which country are they deriving from? 🙂

[@DrGrande]

Italy and Ireland

[@LuciaInman]

​@@DrGrande I always thought you looked Italian or from Spain. Respectfully, you're handsome.

[@franmellor9843]

I thought he was Latin American or maybe Jewish, ooops I am way off

[@LuciaInman]

fran mellor He doesn’t look Latin American at all but I can see why you’d think Jewish.

[@mrs.reluctant4095]

@@franmellor9843 I also thought of Jewish and Italian or Spanish influence.🙂

[@vannarubi4591]

been binge-watching your channel for the past week and a half and so love your content dr grande! i would really love to see you do a video in which you discuss the stigma associated with asd (specifically the traits/experiences of women/girls and non-binary individuals who are on the spectrum). #actuallyautistic women/girls and #actuallyautistic non-binary people really do not seem to get the attention we deserve and are often misdiagnosed/are not well understood by mental health clinicians. during this month of “autism awareness/acceptance,” i think it would make for a really high quality video. would love to hear your thoughts.

[@LuciaInman]

Yes, please. Interested too. - And yes, his channel is pretty darn awesome.

[@michelley3910]

Would the society depicted in the movie "Midsommar" be an expansion of this concept?

[@Tovish1988]

This seems to perfectly fit the Slenderman attempted murder.

[@vaderjones357]

We're you talking about the girls in New Zealand..."heavenly creatures" based on them????

[@ElectricalSong]

I am so confused, please help! If it's not in the DSM 5, then how is it considered a legit mental disorder? Is it a real mental illness? I'm doing a mental health analysis of the movie Perfect Blue and apparently, this is a big theme in this story.

[@pineapplesun07]

Your videos are very significant and are helpful for general public additionally I believe it will help psychology students 👍

[@dleation6498]

This is honestly interesting after listening out the Mysterious Tromp Family road trip case

[@reemy8245]

I was looking for joker 2 title meaning I can’t wait for people to watch this before during after the movie fantastic educational video.

[@juliestewart2381]

Related to this topic, I would love to hear your analysis of the Slender Man case. It seems as though it may fit. On another topic, I would also enjoy hearing your analysis of Letecia Stauch, related to the Gannon Stauch murder. Seems like she may have fictitious disorder, as a minimum.

[@Amanda-rd8fl]

I agree, the slender man case came to mind for me as well.

[@FrancesShear]

:-D Dr. Grande thank you for giving me and others the courage to start expressing anger in healthy ways instead of ignoring personal needs while doing too much for another. Now I too am never going to be taken advantage of by anyone until dying of ALS or whatever soon after any leader or set of leaders influences me in any Folie a deux get away from the reality of pain in life when making me feel like a nerdy person enough to become totally dependent on any 'Folie a Deux - ing of me 'caregiver' until they inherit from me my intellectual and otherwise property before say 11 years or so - long enough to do me in no matter how intelligent I think I am. [Not that I would be any ideal target to be inheriting from myself]

[@domesdaylines]

Dr Grande, What do you consider to be the most prevalent personality disorders? In one of your videos you said either OCPD or AVPD, but, unless I am misremembering what you said, that seems inconsistent with the most current research. I haven't heard of AVPD being among the most common. I see a lot of conflicting research on this matter, though. It also seems hard for me to believe that BPD is quite at 6% of the population. That seems very high. Do you have an opinion on this?

[@fansidoodle]

Will you do a video explaining the difference between limerence and unrequited love? I'm having a hard time differentiating the two as there seems to be general overlap in symptoms. 🤗

[@iainholmes2735]

This is fascinating. A very detailed episode.

[@ReturnOfTheJ.D.]

1989 - the Menendez Brothers double patricide - Lyle and Eric shared a persecutory "folie a deux" delusion of being molested and sodomized by their father, which justified the murders of both him (Jose) and their mother Kitty. Interestingly, Kitty was never accused of any form of abuse of the brothers, and yet when she survived the first shotgun blast directed at her, the brothers went outside to their car, reloaded, and came back to finish her off with another round of fire. Highly inconsistent with the rationale of child sexual molestation given at their trial, when she played no part in that directly, as the brothers themselves openly conceded.

[@coimindeburka7716]

The movie The Bug, is one of the scariest depictions of folie a deux.

[@shaanz2.087]

I had INSIDER LOOK on multiple DSM......thanks Dr. TG. that m turning completely CRAZY....!!! Lol