Shaved Legs vs. Hairy Legs - Wind tunnel reveals all!

[@davisbest]

Oddly, I've been looking for about 13 watts on my day to day walking efficiency. Shaved immediately and can confirm that I reached my coffee pickup in .02 seconds faster.

[@felixberezhnoy]

Rofl

[@davidburch3863]

The practical benefits are infinite.

[@888jucu]

That could be the difference between getting the last vanilla slice or not☝️

[@downivorylane]

You're missing the other half of the equation, you need to walk up to ~40km/h to really feel the gains of shaving. Then, you will experience the true time savings

[@jamessayer4245]

I was actually slower as I had to keep stopping to itch my freshly shaved arms and legs!

[@Nairezs]

Should've wore the calve sleeves with hairy legs as well

[@rememberyourlight816]

This is the test I really need

[@wujekg]

my first thought exactly, when he got off the bike for the first time and shave. guy from the wind tunnel should think bout that - shows you level of "scientificness" of this crew...

[@piergiorgio919]

​@@wujekg It's honestly a fair assumption to assume that it wont make a difference since the sleeve covers the hair (and the added volume of the hair under the hair is miniscule)

[@bobblade2681]

@@piergiorgio919is it abt volume or surface area. If it’s surface area it might mayyer

[@dh5686]

5!!! More like 2or3 out of 10 on chewbacca scale 😂

[@jeinhorn87]

Yea totally... I think high level cyclists and swimmers are heavily biased since they're frequently surrounded by shaved legs/bodies

[@lekobiashvili945]

Yep! It that was 5, then I should be 12🤣

[@edgarbran9822]

Yeah... That's terrible news for me. If he saved 10 watts @40km/h being a 2 or 3, and I'm twice as hairy, that's an instant 5% gain for me. I guess I'll have to try!

[@jackholloway272]

@@edgarbran9822 I know the feeling, i reckon im three times as hairy, if i shaved i might not even need to peddle anymore haha

[@fpeter01]

Yeah, his legs barely had hairs. My legs were black before I shaved them. Shaving off full grown hair took me soo long!

[@michaelrogge9934]

Also think about the difference in a non-wetsuit swim. As far as I know, all Olympic male swimmers will be shaved down. My old swim coach used to use the analogy of dragging a branch with leaves thru a stream vs with the leaves removed.

[@m4ximusprim3]

this is the funniest part to me. The resistance compounds with the density of the fluid, and to be real he's objectively one of the slowest swimmers amongst the guys he routinely finishes among,.It's framed as a bike decision, but he'll gain so much more in the water than on the bike by shaving for any swims which aren't full suit. It's crazy to me that he wasn't before.

[@megmikerodriguez6011]

And the apology to Erin....priceless! 🙏💗👊

[@alexgrenke5513]

Frodo consulting on shave vs keep growing aspect:) hilarious

[@oliverleibbrandt8067]

Just Frodo sitting in on a wind tunnel session , just another day in the office

[@JF12702]

The faster you go the greater the effect. I’m never holding 45km/h. Be great to repeat test at 30 and 35km/h

[@choanlpoto]

40kmh with his cda is only 180w. If you can’t hold 180w go train harder before thinking marginal gains.

[@JF12702]

Apparently you need 228 W at a CdA of 0.212 to travel 40 km/h. You need 313 W to go at 45km/ h which was the test speed. To reach those numbers I will have to go train harder.

[@opliko]

@@choanlpoto Don't be an elitist jerk. That is a crazy fast speed. I've been cycling going on 4 years minus the winters because of seasonal affective disorder, and my avg speed has never gone over 17mph/27kmh, but normally I'm more around 13mph/21kmh. Breaking 20mph/32kmh is a huge achievement

[@theblackfluid]

Imagine going 30 km/h and getting 15 km/h headwinds. Should have the same effect.

[@choanlpoto]

@@opliko I don't talk about speed but power. 180w is not a high power for any cyclist. And from his chart. With a good bike position you can hold 40kph with 180w

[@magnusmalmborn8665]

Some sport (ice skating?) use skinsuites with raised stitches to lower drag, by causing turbulence that help close the airstream behind (the golf ball effect). By that reasoning the optimum should be a strip of stubble down the outside of the legs...

[@hernanhernandez3861]

I also believe that the shaved surfaces helps in heat dissipation. Also easier to apply sun screen in a more even, thinner application. I've been shaving since my racing days in the 1990s. I can tell the heat difference after only 2 weeks of growth.

[@billymans2259]

Love that Jan is with you !!! So excited for U LS! PLEASE LISTEN to JAN !!!❤

[@log_it8282]

Should've tested the mullet in between!!!

[@yesitis1395]

Went ahead and shaved my back and satchel just in case. Scheduled velodrome for Monday.

[@Anders11J]

Good to see Jan in this :)

[@nimbra2]

Wait what? When?

[@iamtheonenonly250]

@@nimbra2all the time, e.g. 0:50

[@nimbra2]

@@iamtheonenonly250 he’s every freaking where 🐐

[@joshuafoulds8107]

I absolutely shaved for my last triathlon because of this wind test video

[@2Calam]

Must have been a very quick turnaround between video and your event

[@joshuafoulds8107]

@@2Calam haha it was his first aero testing video a few weeks ago

[@cyclingcolumbus]

@@joshuafoulds8107 What do you mean it was uploaded 4 days ago??!! Are you a time traveller? 🤣

[@joshuafoulds8107]

@@cyclingcolumbus no, shaved arms and legs just made me that fast!

[@cyclingcolumbus]

@@joshuafoulds8107 Aha! Had he already mentioned it in one of his vlogs? Congrats for your triathlon!

[@bryanlittle494]

Jan cameo! See you in Tremblant Lionel!

[@utuber221]

I thought they removed the full...is he doing the 1/2?

[@SimoneChiaretta]

Would have the calf sleeves alone on top of unshaven legs bring the same benefit?

[@DavidFritzIII]

I'm hoping they do zero cause I don't really want to walk around with these on, great quote on calf sleeves!

[@DCassidy42]

What about facial hair?

[@jhunt5578]

Not much of a difference due to the aero position. They do the test in the vid. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z4Cnp4igdr-pftUsi=iaGo6mshTm4eC2Z-

[@leegmann2282]

I immediately shaved my arms and legs after watching this video! 😆

[@L-dw5sx]

I’m now hairless from the eyebrows down 👍

[@jparticle182]

😂

[@A_H_66]

I don't think it matters that much when you're going 20 kmh.

[@L-dw5sx]

@@A_H_66 no one goes 20kph even age groupers ride at 30-35 on the flats

[@seanvonlost]

But do you even have a race?

[@HeinrichNiemoller]

Brilliant Study! Well prepared and thought through with a control and comparison in a stable environment! Weldone Lionel!

[@roryschmidt5776]

One thing is it's not blind. The subject could definitely be subconsciously in a more aerodynamic position because they shaved. Kinda hard to correct for that sadly

[@mda05rnr]

@@roryschmidt5776- his output was the same: 250W for each ride. The difference was in the CdA which they then “translate” to a watt saving.

[@roryschmidt5776]

@@mda05rnr yup. So his legs are controlled for. But he might have had his head lower, elbows more in, or otherwise more aerodynamic simply because he feels more aerodynamic w/the shaved legs. It's why blind studies are necessary. How necessary in this case? I have no idea

[@mda05rnr]

@@roryschmidt5776good point. But the counterargument is that his prior belief was that it made no difference, so theoretically it could have undermined a greater CdA difference!! I don’t know if blinding would have been possible, but this is where n=1 studies show their weaknesses. All that as it is, I’ve never shaved my legs, and I think this video has persuaded me for my upcoming A race. 😮

[@roryschmidt5776]

@@mda05rnr yup. We don't know where the variance would point, we simply can't ignore that there may be variance. good luck with your race!

[@socopower]

Missed the trick of shaving legs then test them shaving arms test again, to see difference between a full shave and just legs :) nicely done anyway

[@j.e.honiball1327]

And calf sleeves on unshaved legs

[@Hubertus-ko6yl]

superbe vid thx Lionel.The results are impressive! - good luck this season and further.

[@JanGoh-jb5ge]

Good to have a follow-up to the old Specialized test. Reproducible results!

[@jonathancano6387]

As a road cyclist without a TT bike and darth vader helmet I'd like to see the difference for a typical roadie doing a solo break away

[@Raceeverything]

competing at your level you need to be doing EVERYTHING!

[@RealG-j2q]

Ill just train more, thank you very much 😀

[@throwawaypt2throwawaypt2-xp8nx]

yea I ain't gon make my self look like a girl. masculinity all the way

[@JohnStadnyk]

I would imagine the effects would be even more pronounced on the swim given the density of the medium you're moving through, though the speed is obviously slower.

[@bobfoster687]

How does 13 watts feel? Get on the indoor trainer. Set ERG mode to a specific value. Pedal at that effort for a while. Without stopping, add 13 watts to the ERG mode. How’s it feel?

[@rskng]

I was seriously thinking that Lionel, by now in his career, has already figured out what most amateurs know, but it turns out he still has stuff to discover. My god.

[@bobbyiv9335]

Yeah honestly seems so weird that he thought it wouldn’t be faster.

[@philipk4475]

Doesn't strike me as the sharpest knife in the drawer, to be honest. The results must be more dramatic for the swim

[@benjaminwilson9193]

@@philipk4475 Problem with the swim data is how much a wetsuit or swim skin affects that - similar to the above comment, what is the effect on cycling with unshaved legs but aero socks? For swimming, does being shaved make a difference when wearing a wetsuit or other covering?

[@christopheralix8554]

You should retest by shaving one or the other. Maybe it’s just the arms causing the gains, or visa versa.

[@MikeCx2]

Great vid… thanks for sharing the data!

[@DrAsphyxia]

how does the front wheel spin?

[@bighammer3464]

I thought this was universal knowledge 😂 Lionel was behind the ball on this one

[@SamuelBlackMetalRider]

Bro’s toying with us with his Ben & Jerry’s Ice cream pot … like I train so much I can indulge real bad 😂

[@jonathan9506]

I was with The Aerow yesterday and can highly recommend these guys. What an invest in facilities and technology for bike fitting and wind tunnel. Without a sponsor it can be expensive :-)

[@stigcc]

Does it apply to running?

[@Ninjump]

That tunnel is beautiful , wow

[@messi9991]

Great video!

[@szymonmodelski149]

Lionel, do the same test with swimming! I did a test myself recently. On an easy swim (2min/100m) I literally shaved 4 sec per 100m by just shaving legs. Arms could shave another second I think. With your swim speed the effect could be more pronounced. More of a fun staff as you will be shaving from now on anyway😬

[@charles-olivierandre4905]

Is the graphic at 8:04 with all the modifications or just the shaved legs?

[@Robizzle01]

What road speed was being simulated? I’d love to hear the watts saved at 15, 30, and 45kph. Also, if slightly hairy arms and legs represent a 13 watt opportunity, what about different jersey materials and fit (skin tight vs relaxed)? Surely my torso contributes far more to wind resistance, right?

[@tomkunich9401]

I got a severe concussion and it took 2 years before I found a neurologist that understood how to treat this type of concussion. With proper medication it was like waking up. Though I seemed OK most of the time I would get a seizure at inappropriate times (generally when I was alone) and it would wipe my memory. After treatment, I started riding again and soon discovered that I was about a 9 on the Chewbaka scale. When I shaved the hair off of my legs, I was literally amazed at the difference in speed, especially into a headwind. While I don't think that hair on your arms would make much difference, it you're racing you absolutely have to shave your legs.

[@YannickOkpara-d5l]

Hair on arms will make a big but reduced difference. The reason it is less is simply because legs are bigger. The arms are further forward, though, so they may have proportionally greater downstream effects with more hair.

[@CC-sj8hd]

Can we get a toenail maintenance video??

[@1bojanbojan]

Great video as usual

[@dropatrain]

Why not test calf sleeves on unshaved legs so I don't have to shave them?

[@manikantavoruganti5222]

How is the front wheel spinning?

[@jconnormcnabb]

But what’s the aero penalty for a mustache???

[@williammartin9450]

Seems obvious if it's a handlebar moustache!?

[@timetraveller7294]

now its getting interesting

[@bratb6191]

Glad you found some more free speed. Quick question. How about changing out the Bonts to the Velovetta's or Giro Empires with laces (but with elastic lace replacements)?

[@rubenvf9772]

Welcome to the shaved side of the world Lionel.

[@k.petervandonk7103]

great test and great humor!! Thanks!!

[@theincredibledeus]

I am so happy for you Lionel to find those gains and make u a faster triathlet!!! However, I am wondering why u didn‘t do such an analytical approach earlier? Don‘t get me wrong….but as a pro athlete u HAVE to do such stuff all the time. I think this approach also made Jan Frodeno the god that he was….he did not left any stone untouched.

[@ZenEndurance]

This just isn’t some stone. This is a huge factor and been known literally for decades. Just… so… wtf.

[@danielmaclachlan5123]

Check out the video on the big shoe test .. the Bonts tested slowest

[@pjbeattie1]

Haha!!!!! Love it!! Go Lionel!!!!

[@bastianhinrichs4605]

Because I'm nowhere near driving 45 kmh, the question is how many watts do you save at 35kmh or 40kmh

[@jiaan100]

Drag scales with the square of your speed. (35/45)^2 is 0.6 and 30 makes it 0.44, so I'd guess around 5 to 7 watts. Probably more complex than this but close enough.

[@kobby86]

its displayed in the charts

[@SofiaPolyakova-pc6co]

Guys, you're rock! Your calf sleeves look so stylish. Recently I got mine too. Absolutely essential for any sportsman I think.

[@runbikerun8189]

I was always under the impression the legs were shaved just in case of a crash, no hair to trap dirt and gravel in an open wound...Regardless, as a man of extremes I "undoubtedly" expect Lionel to shave his head and eye-brows before Mt. Tremblant!

[@obsidianclorox]

That is another reason why people shave legs! You're not completely wrong, it's also easier to treat your wounds if there's no hair all over the place

[@whirving]

For me, a mountain bike racer on the West coast USA it was for wound care and poison oak treatment. Also it was easier to keep cool, I'm half hobbit. Never shaved my arms though.

[@jonathanechevers6265]

Yeah, that's complete bs. When you hit the pavement you're gonna get dirt in your scrapes no matter what.

[@obsidianclorox]

@@jonathanechevers6265 Well, true but it's gonna be less dirt

[@whirving]

@@jonathanechevers6265 for me it just made it easier to clean the wounds and poison oak rash, also made it easier to see them. I started regularly shaving my legs after I found an abscess on my leg from an infected poison oak blister that I never noticed because of the hair on my legs. That was when I was mostly mountain bike racing and doing a lot of road riding and racing for training so it made sense at the time.

[@davidhadenham1983]

Shaved being faster has been known for decades! Like actually known not kinda sort of.

[@philipk4475]

Yeah it's astonishing a "top pro" such as sanders doesn't do this. It would be like insisting the aero bars do nothing, or refusing to wear a skinsuit or aero helmet because "it looks dorky"

[@him050]

I always thought it was debunked though. With swimming it makes a difference, but with the marginal difference it makes in a medium 800 times denser than air, it was concluded that in cycling it was negligible.

[@joemoya9743]

Some tests have shown that hair stubble and not slick and clean shaven was even more aero.

[@h20s8804]

I've never shaved arms... Legs always tho, but not really for aero. I always did it bc it just feels clean, and it is way easier to get clean after mtb rides, or certainly if I (god forbid) crash and have some road rash.

[@pitti2602]

The table is crazy. In drop position on a roadbike 32km/h @200 Watt has always been pretty solid for me. Seeing the 40+ even if it is TT .. 🙀

[@cwd3bon]

Any weighting of shaving only legs vs arms & legs?

[@deltacx1059]

Ever consider a faring and solid front wheel? You guys are already way on the extreme end so you might as well.

[@arthurogervais]

Haha, ditching the sugary ice-cream may also safe 13 watts.

[@dtolios]

You need something to live for after you start shaving arms and legs...

[@TyTy22_]

Would have liked to see the difference between just shaving legs and both arms/legs

[@wohliq1]

is there also the calculation that you gain watts by having hair if youre getting pushed by the wind?

[@BigBeezyBtown]

It does make putting sunscreen on easier

[@tjulian110]

I know you are sponsored by whoop but they do have the option to pit the sensor in the pants right? Wonder if that would affect your cda significally.

[@strengthfrank2916]

How can you look this fast without moving?

[@batbawls]

Can anyone tell me the wheel brand? thanks in advance

[@jasonyanota2378]

Hed

[@sambrown1779]

This search for aero is fantastic...but did you test a rear wheel for Kona??

[@tasdrouille]

Welcome to the shaved drone club Lionel -Sam

[@Southerncyclist]

Every year about May, i shave my arms and legs. I can tell without a wind tunnel lol. I'm probably level 8 chuboka so its probably worth more than 13 watts for myself.

[@akdrn3624]

So funny and entertaining 😂

[@FootyMcKurfs]

I want to see the test for Whoop strap vs no Whoop.

[@carolannlussenden6156]

Mama’s always right!! 😊

[@liranlahavTRI]

Someone know why Jan be there?

[@ironman140.6]

NO LIMITS new title - THE HARD WAY -

[@IIMIKEYMOII]

“Hairy” legs. This dudes legs are me 3 days after a trim. Test this with an Italian or a Greek.

[@kmac720]

I think Specialized had it at 15 watts for legs at 25mph.

[@tonyjames5444]

In my test I shaved my left arm and leg, marginally quicker but I spent the day going around in circles.

[@martintjader6154]

Took Lionel 2 weeks to finaly decide if it is worth it 🤣

[@jasonbanales4447]

worried about how the calf sleeves look with that thing on your head... :D

[@robertroguszczak6401]

Was that Jan... there ?

[@krisvanherzeele7300]

With the amount of hair I have on my legs I would gain 30 watts if I shave 😂

[@MsTatakai]

still not convinced ... will keep them

[@wimvdputte]

The best part of this video was the last 30 sec. "You were right, D" 🤣🤣🤣. BTW, this year I'm 40 years into triathlon and I shave my legs every... every race, 40y long (and I'm still an average dude) 🤣🤣

[@AaronPortman-vv5mb]

can someone help me understand the data? If i already race with calf sleeves, does that mean its still worth it because of the arms a little bit of the legs? Unsure if it's worth trying lol

[@sicknorenson]

I felt that when he said “I hope this doesn’t make me faster, I don’t want to wear these” all the crazy stuff people wear nowadays even just to a group ride feels like overkill. I heard it’s fastest to have REALLY long leg and arm hair so I’ll keep going for that 😂

[@kanter777]

Quick reminder - this test was done ONLY on 1 person. We do not have data from any other person to see how their wattage changed and what’s the total average

[@sytsedijkstra]

What kind of rear seat single bottle holder is that?! Ps cool video!

[@adamgurule1458]

I have never shaved my legs, I think it's for Sissy's but now I might try it, instead of pushing 300w, I can ride at 285 making riding fast easier. Only on race days though. Thanks homie!

[@throwawaypt2throwawaypt2-xp8nx]

ur gut is right

[@scottwhitten2016]

Can you test a Venus vs. a full Brazilian?

[@Mysiamesecatblue]

That’s crazy. That’s definitely the difference between placing and not

[@henrikh484]

13watts crazy gain, won’t be that much in a bunch but in a solo break all in, it will matter, as in TT of course 🎉

[@DingleBerryMTB]

I thought the whole point of shaving the legs (for cross country) was so when you come off, your skin doesn't rip out as much as there is no hair for it to grab onto.

[@AceMBP]

There are other benefits like comfort of not having hair pinching under your shorts and getting a much better massage, and in case of road rash etc much easier to keep from getting infected..

[@christiangro8621]

Cmon cycling industry - give us aero covers for the whoop straps!

[@lisagreenberg5020]

Shaving also if for if you have a bike accident and easier to treat the skin with shaved legs and arms

[@jeuelc]

What is Jan doing here? Is he your coach now? Or he owns aerow?

[@m0e566]

the aerow is owned by Björn Geesmann ( coach of Patrik Lange and Kat Matthews). So Frodo is probably his coach or manager or something

[@theicetea4405]

maye Frodeno is like an advisor for Lionel !