Shaymin Land vs Sky - Pokemon Platinum

[@w1q2e3r4t5]

Natural gift can be pretty useful if there's a single pesky Pokemon on enemy teams. Some quick examples: Crasher Wake's Gyarados is weak to electric moves and natural gift can nuke it, the scizor in the steel gym which was being a pain, briefly getting natural gift could burn through it with a fire type move. Though shaymin didn't have too much difficulty there, if something in the future REALLY struggles against specific pokemon, you can have a guaranteed super effective move to clear that roadblock instead of having to reset multiple times / spend time training. It's available for sale in the Veilstone department store, so you can teach and re-teach it as need be, and it's not overly expensive. Also, with some of the rarer berries you can get the power up to 80, so definitely not bad, especially against things with 4x weaknesses. Finally done editting and making thoughts clearer. Sorry for the like... ten edits.

[@AlluminiumAleron]

Natural gift, for sure! It's such a neat move, I want Scott to at least know it exists, lol. Edit to add: Useless! That's not how I would describe Natural Gift... Maybe situational or possibly limited but not useless. That's such slander imo. I suppose the 50-80 base power range (based on which berry) isn't too high when you aren't targeting down a double weakness... And the inability to use the move more than once per fight is super unideal... But some pokemon like Carnivine are cursed with basically no other coverage options so I suppose we'll see it eventually hahaha

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

I will use it more! Cesar, I am coming for you!

[@robertstrommer2778]

I had a pet hedgehog named pecan who sadly got put down recently:( seeing you play this cute little grass hedgehog made me smile :) thanks for making me happy as always Scott!

[@wholesomevibes3789]

Aww, why was he put down? Did doctor robotic mistake it for sonic?

[@157ich9]

​@@wholesomevibes3789 disgusting

[@ducky_vt3982]

​@@wholesomevibes3789not cool man...

[@potatoman2580]

@@wholesomevibes3789 you dont deserve that username

[@eeveeoak3670]

Sorry for your loss I can actually relate to having a pet put down because when I was little I had a dog that I adopted from the humane society my dog was a Dalmatian mix named Elvis Presley I only had my dog Elvis for a year or so before I had to get him put down because he had developed lung cancer

[@paulmann8570]

Ah yes, competitor for one of the cutest Pokémon created vs The Unanimous Ban.

[@theSato]

honestly... sky form is cuter than land to me.. haha

[@ItMeCHILZ]

Greeting friends, time for yet another near hour of Scott playing Pokémon 👌(PS hope everyone reading this has a good day and praise be to the algorithm)

[@bitmen1296]

Praise the algorithm and may it always promote Scott's videos to the top of our feeds 🙌

[@farrelldrugan7529]

​@@bitmen1296are you not subbed with notifications on?

[@misirtere9836]

44:09 actually, Will-O-Wisp wouldn't have 85% accuracy until Gen 6. In these games, it's only 75%. The accuracy was increased after Aaron Zheng lost the 2013 Pokemon World Championships because he missed three Will-O-Wisps in a row.

[@damianodidomenico4756]

Imagine being so unlucky that they change the game for you

[@misirtere9836]

@@damianodidomenico4756 He has a sense of humor about it, at least. He sent in a Pokemon for one of Alpharad's egglockes and it was the Wash Rotom from 2013, but with its ability changed to Compound Eyes.

[@bettyunicorn6132]

@@misirtere9836 That’s incredible… honestly.

[@shigeru6282]

Even if it's only the "first run" tier list I think that in a case of forms with different types (Shaymin, later Oricorio, Rotom) or significant stat difference (I can only think of Deoxys on top of my head) they are different enough to consider each form a first run for that pokemon

[@DarkMario9000]

Shaymin Sky is a name that still inflicts fear on my heart, Togekiss is bad but Shaymin Sky is a different beast, the flinch master in the flesh I'll be baffled if it somehow performs worse when you can flinch the whole game

[@iantaakalla8180]

And in one generation there will be King’s Rock Skill Link Cloyster (though not with the moves that would make it the flinch master).

[@Chronoflation]

If only it was the whole run. Having to wait til 64 for air slash really holds it back, sadly, but it still does do really well

[@Glidus]

oh i am sleeping like a ROCK tonight, thank you Scott 🙏

[@Veritos777]

It was between the Shaymins or Dragon Time for me, but I am way too sleepy to last an extra hour haha

[@mewr11]

I don't know if anyone's let you know about this already, but drxx has a really good video about how Platinum's switch AI works (for those unfamiliar with the lingo, "switch AI" is the way enemy trainers determine which 'mon to send in after a KO). His video is called "Pokemon’s AI is Weirder Than You Think", but the general gist is that the AI prefers to send in 'mons with a super-effective move and a positive type matchup, but some type matchups are calculated incorrectly. In the case of 43:20 , Cyrus sees that all of his remaining 'mons have a super-effective move, so calculates their type matchups. Honchkrow and Weavile both have a super-effective type and a neutral type, so they get a score of 3 each, and the tie is broken by party order; Gyarados has a super-effective type and a resisted type, so it gets a score of 2.5 and gets sent out last; and Crobat has two super-effective types for a score of 4 and gets sent out right after Houndoom. There's a bunch of edge cases and weird tie-breaks for 'mons without super-effective moves, watch drxx's video for the full calculations involved.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Watching his video now. Thanks for the recommendation.

[@mewr11]

@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon After watching the rest of your Platinum backlog, I think there's one additional wrinkle not covered in drxx's video. Namely, if a pokemon has a super-effective move against you, but you are immune to its typing, it will fall into the tiebreaks with pokemon that do not have a super-effective move. That sounds confusing, so here's where this hypothesis comes from: In your Bidoof/Bibarel run, you showed two different fights against Fantina - one using Amnesia to set up SpD, and the other without. Fantina always leads with Duskull, her Haunter does not have a super-effective move, and her Mismagius does have a super-effective move, in Magical Leaf. As such, we should expect the ordering to always be Duskull -> Mismagius -> Haunter. However, in the second battle, when your Bibarel was at +6 SpD, Haunter got sent out second. I'm pretty sure the reason was Mismagius's type matchup calculation recieved a score of 0, since Bibarel is immune to Ghost, and the Switch AI interpreted it as not actually having a super-effective move. Usually this doesn't end up mattering, since a super-effective move is likely to score highest on the damage rolls, but with max SpD, the Haunter's Sucker Punch had the highest roll.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

I may end up trying to re-test a bunch of the things drxx did to get a better sense for it myself. I haven't fully internalized the logic yet.

[@Offbreed309]

If I had to guess, Han Solo probably didn't put his whole body in. Either way, Luke wasn't in there for very long, just enough time for Han to get an emergency shelter up. The radio version has alot of stuff cut from the movies.

[@Smileyrat]

I always thought of it like a sleeping bag situation. Leave your head out or leve a bit open for air.

[@Former_Gamer]

Cool to see Aaron pulling his weight in the Elite 4! I have always liked Aaron. Not just because he uses my favorite type, but also because I know he had to work very hard to become a member of the Elite 4. Especially in Diamond and Pearl, where he somehow became an elite 4 member with a Dustox AND a Beautifly!

[@jameswhite2308]

That transition to the ad read was incredible. I didn't even realize it until you said brilliant. Just, brilliant job

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Glad you liked it!

[@Touchybanana]

33:37 He calls Commander Saturn a she.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

My mistake

[@tacoman10]

32:47 Luke didn't tie up the AT-AT, Wedge Antillies did after Luke's gunner died. He did solo one with a grenade though.

[@isaacwright1275]

His gunner's name is Dak, who fun fact is for some reason my dad's favourite star wars character

[@goldkobold6496]

Honestly I feel like it’d also be interesting to see how you’d do if you could switch Shaymin throughout the run. It’s rare for you to be able to change your Pokémon like this after all

[@adventureoflinkmk2]

12:38 shaymin sky perfect run ends here (16:18 land shaymin), F in the chat Press F to pay respects 14:43 mismagius NOT Misdreavus

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

14:43 - look at the screen ;)

[@shammy7098]

Lurker commenting to boost engagement. Some comments have answered this question, but Luke was probably only in the tauntaun long enough to warm Luke back up, or until Han got some emergency shelter going like a sleeping bag or something to that effect. The Rebels presumably find them the next morning. It was also Wedge and his gunner Jansen who tied up the first AT-AT, Luke takes his down solo with a grenade. But that's arguing over details of an otherwise very apt comparison :)

[@bluethemew9273]

The 44:30 fight with Cyrus when you ask about about why crobat comes first is it’s seeing your grass move and typing putting the most effect pokemon first usually so given flying poison beats grass compared to jsut flying or a ice typing usually is why I believe

[@charlessegale6493]

The Star Wars references halfway through brought me back not only to the first time I watched Episode V, but also when I first played both the Super Star Wars trilogy on the Super Nintendo and the Rogue Squadron trilogy. So many good memories... And no, I'm not sure about how tauntaun fat is useful for survival. Han and Luke just got lucky, I guess. XD

[@IEmulateGames]

Game Freak REALLY likes giving Pokémon quadruple weaknesses to ice.

[@B463L]

*cries in Torterra*

[@theiceman7590]

​@@B463LEmpoleon - 🐧😂

[@bobjoe3492]

To be fair ice is super effective on like 1/3 of the types.

[@Xeraser2]

42:10 Ghetsis checks for Evice and Greevil under his bed every night before going to sleep.

[@sladevalen]

Shaymin's Land form is tied with Ho-oh for my third favorite pokemon in the series. I used to have a shiny one when i was younger called Mossmellow and they were so cute!

[@BloodfelX]

Regarding no Pokemon potentially struggling with Lucian after clearing the rest of the Elite Four; maybe Toxicroak...? Four times weakness to Psychic moves sounds scary, but I imagine Toxicroak does have answers.

[@Muriuki34]

Sucker Punch, definitely

[@ElliottDent]

This has me excited (but kinda dreading) the burmy forme video!

[@cocaloid9251]

With a special boosting move and the reliance on Return to hit grass resists, I wonder if Shaymin could have found a use for Hyper Beam. Yes, it has a recharge turn, but it would also have probably gotten quite a few ohkos where Return couldn't and maybe have been used to selectively remove the more dangerous mons.

[@Ectar2003]

44:12 Will o Wisp gained 85 accuracy in Gen VI. Prior to that, it was 75, the same as Mega Kick.

[@masterjoful]

In my Opinion ranking both Shaymin forms is valid and should be kept, cause they are different, same species but different

[@bobjoe3492]

Balanced stat mons get slept on for in game play throughs

[@Byers2476.]

Thanks, Scott, for all the hard work!

[@joshuaenns-wind9851]

Awesome video, Scott! Can’t wait for the video with all 6 Rotom forms 🤪

[@bobjoe3492]

My prediction from best to worse is rotom wash, rotom heat, rotom ice, rotom mow, rotom fan, and then base form

[@Chronoflation]

I love Shaymin. Great run. Can't wait for you to get to the point where you're optimizing these playthroughs and doing multiple runs. Will be great to see the final version of each of these, where you know to use moves like grass knot and the such at the right times

[@perkypenguin1663]

Glad to see both Shaymin forms get time to shine! One thing I found interesting was that you got rid of Grass Knot instead of Magical Leaf right around Cyrus. Grass Knot would've done more to Gyarados and resulted in one fewer reset as a result, plus you can get Magical Leaf back but not Grass Knot. Other than that, your play was very solid and it was nice to see more Grass types!

[@RaynmanPlays]

Shaymin is one of my favorite Pokemon and certainly my favorite Mythical. It is undeniably adorable, but I also love the grass-type.

[@lafusion6695]

I had a great team travelling through Sinnoh with Scott. Spoilers in read more. I really didn't expect either of them to be in S tier or for them to be so close to one another, I've never seen someone do a Shaymin solo run and it really means a lot to me

[@bex9708]

I'm sick today but your videos have helped me immensely by keeping me company and distracting me

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Hope you feel better soon!

[@banditrests]

Without watching yet, I know from experience using it extensively that skymin really wants HP fire for coverage desperately

[@daman8492]

33:30 He just... breathes? xD In real life I highly doubt that tactic of getting inside an animal to stay warm is airtight. Hell, the 'gap' that lets air in might even be the animal's mouth.

[@KeithTheGeek]

Love the video, it's pretty cool seeing how the two forms play compared to each other. I also wonder what a potential optimized mixed form run would look like, though you would have to work around the form change mechanics... Feels a bit off to me to conclusively say Sky is better strictly on the basis of its coverage when Land struggled a lot at Cyrus in large part due to player error. I can see Sky still being better if both Pokemon were optimized and played again but it feels as if you were stuck between a rock and a hard place with Cyrus. Backtracking or just grinding resets both were major timesinks. Gonna also echo the other comments and bring up Natural Gift. It's not a perfect solution due to only being single use per battle and eating your item slot, but in scenarios like the Scizor it would help a lot. Could potentially also give yourself coverage against Cyrus's Houndoom.

[@Parxdxgm]

All I know is... that Deoxys video is gonna be so cool

[@yodoni96]

A really easy and interesting playtrought would be Arceus. It is the only pokemon you, whenever collect all the plates, will have advantage in all main battles

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

It will be very interesting…

[@pikminman13]

rip shaymin sky, learning air slash at 64 where that would be broken if it got it in the 30s or so

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Yup. Even at 50-55 it would have helped so much.

[@mellysandshrew]

Shaymin is my favorite mythical so even if it got a terrible time, it would have gotten S tier in my heart. Glad to see both versions pulling out some very respectable times for first runs!

[@johncalabro8710]

43:32 The reason the AI chose Crobat instead of Honchkrow is that since both have a super effective move, it also see that Crobat is 4 times resisted to the grass type, while honchkrow is only 2 times

[@TheMoogleKing93]

I love when powerful legendary pokemon are just little friends

[@reshawshid]

38:40 You could have also just used the Shell Bell. Knocking out the other two Pokemon would restore about the same amount of health, and leave you the rare candies for later. Speaking of which, though, using the Shell Bell to maintain health on longer routes with lots of mandatory trainer battles could potentially help keep your HP stat up for lots of Pokemon. Just a thought.

[@kulrigalestout]

Always happy to see my boy getting a sponsor :D

[@kulrigalestout]

33:09 Very carefully. Also, brain doesn't about how badly the air stinks when you're in a yeti-induced coma. It just wants that delicious oxygen, even if it's going to poison the rest of the body.

[@rooislangwtf]

Scott called Shell Bell a bit useless earlier, but the recovery would've really helped while hail was up

[@Rubbly]

51:13 I was starting to get into the groove of the music and then it was OVER Cynthia is so weak to setup sweep strats it's crazy!

[@NerdKing2nd]

spiritomb only works as a good starting pokemon on a first playthrough without prior knowledge, since its a fairly bulky pokemon with no weakness so you waste time trying to figure out what to hit it with instead of using it as a somewhat easy pokemon to set up on.

[@PraefMace]

If it is anything like the competitive scenario, Sky forme will destroy everything while bush hedgehog will be struggling. Also droooopped my ballssssss

[@fistymchagus5343]

Breathing isn’t easy inside a dead animal, but it’s an actual survival method

[@madmatt1763]

Just beat Brilliant Diamond last week. Since it was my first playthrough of any Gen 4 game, I avoided your Platinum series, but now have caught up. I know you said that you didn’t care much for the remakes, but I will say Cynthia in the remakes is hands down the hardest main story trainer I’ve ever fought in a Pokemon game. She would destroy her Gen 4 DPPt self. If you haven’t finished the game and if you get time, definitely at least try defeating her.

[@rc4780]

Hi Scott, just some friendly advice for your Pt runs. You’re really undervaluing the use of Natural Gift. It’s an incredible move that can offer utility to a set when the only other option is grinding. For example you can easily handle Scizor with an Occa Berry that you get in Pastoria.

[@ArchonZach]

I can't wait to see the rest of the gen4 mythicals!

[@NickJamNG]

Runs with hard Candice fights have the lovely consequence of me repeatedly mishearing the phrase "I shart"

[@vandelay33]

At 43:40 he probably sent out Crobat since he double resists grass (Poison + Flying) while Honchkrow only single resists

[@SIDEWAYS255]

Scott "I find this really strange..." *Translation* "This is bullshit"

[@lucaseder]

Scott, Drxx have a great video showing how AI chooses the next pokemon in Gen IV but TLDR, it is about types, in the case Crobat instead of Hownchcrow, Crobat has two types strong against grass, poison and flying, so it comes first

[@jameszoeller5425]

I'm noticing a trend. The more Scott plays gen 3 and 4 the more he uses substitute. It's like rest for him in gen 1

[@JetblackJay]

I will say that leechseed jn the skunktank fight would’ve been better than substitute

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Yeah, I think so. I under value seeding because of bias. In gen1 it does 1/16 damage but starting in gen2 it does 1/8. I should consider it more in later generations.

[@weebrahim]

reminds me of an old rom hack i loved as a kid, pokemon flora sky!

[@mlpfanboy1701]

2:45 “pretty useless in a solo challenge.” Even though sweet secent is a godsent pairing with seedflare.

[@rooislangwtf]

43:19 without knowing the calcs it's hard to say. In cases where both are slower, but has a super effective move, the AI will usually pick the one that doesn't get one shot / will deal more damage than it takes. So idk why it picked Crobat.

[@chrisdaignault9845]

Leech seed probably would have been better in that Jupiter fight than substitute.

[@TastyMeerkat]

Venomoth Fact #33: Venomoth's sleep spores were once handed out to lands far and wide by Venomoth themselves as a natural sleep aid remedy. Of course it was only a matter of time until human greed attempted to monetize this gift meant for all, so Venomoth had to cease this practice. Sad, really.

[@brandonlangley1009]

I was expecting Candace to wall the Sky form. I am surprised that it managed to get by her so easily.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

I was surprised too.

[@numbug1234]

Now I wanna see a run where Shaymin switches between Land or Sky form during the playthrough, depending on when which form is optimal for which fight

[@marlysalt]

I hope we get a 'by their powers combined' and see what happens when you can freely switch between forms

[@BatmanthePoet]

The 90s kid in me not appreciating the gen 4 playthroughs as much as gen 1-3. (Instant like!)

[@adventureoflinkmk2]

7:53 and 8:01 and 15:16 oooo 69 nice... and in spite of scott doing audio callouts you missed the nice :( 9:21 ooo 69 nice and scott actually caught that one 😊 24:03 ooooo 69 NOT nice

[@AlanDeezEdits_2.0]

Proud to proclaim you are my first person i subscribed on this account

[@javelin4646]

With vs videos on the menu for platinum im definitely looking forward to stuff like Weavile v Gliscor or Electivire v Magmortar!

[@Smileyrat]

You said that you might give sky form a nature to raise its special attack. But it sounded like it was struggling from low defence. Would a defensive nature be a good option for sky form as well?

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Maybe, but usually a bit of planning & experience can work around lower defense. More damage usually matters more.

[@lyoukeefen7199]

I’d like to see how fast Shaymin could go if you switched between forms depending on battles. After all, on fights where one struggled, the other usually managed much better.

[@darakir]

Scott should do a playthough with croagunk to prove that lucian is easy with every pokemon

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Yeah, he’s such a joke. Never going to be a problem. Ever. Right? Right?????

[@darakir]

@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon Absolutely 0% chance right?

[@MrEnte3000]

If it changes forms it always keeps its full movesets, making all its moves available in both forms.

[@eekajmoneybaby9309]

Queen Bee out playing both infernape & empoleon really hurts to see that

[@handanyldzhan9232]

50:40 Don't agree with the Lucian slander here. If anything, he's the most competent E4 member in the entire franchise. His team is solid, consists of good pokemon with nice coverage moves. He's nothing like Bruno, Surge, or that nepo baby/fraud Clair at all. A lot of Platinum players say they struggled with him the most out of all the E4. His problem isn't that he's bad, but he looks bad in your runs because when you're doing a solo run, all the E4 and champion teams end up coming up against a massively overleveled and overtuned single pokemon. You outspeed everything, so his team of glass cannons just gets one-shot while trainers with more bulky mons that can survive can look superficially better. But when you're doing a multi-pokemon/no overleveling/Nuzlocke challenge where he's allowed to not be massively underleveled against you, he's pretty damn tough.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Well, I’m always talking within the context of solo challenges, and he’s basically been Bruno so far.

[@paulnewton2284]

I would guess that Cyrus sent out Crobat before Honchkrow because Crobat has a double resistance to Grass while Honchkrow only has a single resistance. Both had super effective moves, so it seems the Platinum AI prioritizes the mon with the better type matchup in that case, in contrast to the Emerald AI prioritizing the mon with the worst type matchup.

[@SHink-of6hh]

I've never been this early :)) Putting this on while I draw something for my dnd group

[@puffypuff3144]

I'm honestly curious how Roserade is going to do. On one hand, it gets Shadow Ball around midgame, giving it an actual quality coverage option most Grass types don't. On the other hand, the Shiny Stone is a bit far into the game, meaning that Roselia will have to face a lot of adversity alone. There is a funny idea to use against Cesar, though; Roserade learns Weather Ball via heart scale, so Sunny Day + Weather Ball will one-shot Scizor. You'd be stuck with Sunny Day the rest of the game if you want it for Aaron, though, since there's only one TM, so maybe it'd be better saved for then. At least Rade isn't weak to Bug.

[@rooislangwtf]

52:48 Land could've totally used Shell Bell here, Miracle Seed is useless vs the bugs. Also vs Flint.

[@SmashMath151]

Both were really good! I'm honestly surprised it was as close as it ended up being. Would Shell Bell have been an option to squeeze out a bit more HP in the trickier battles? It seems like it could've helped Land Forme with Aaron and maybe the last Cyrus battle.

[@reshawshid]

Man it was really rude of Game Freak to lock the sky form behind an event to prevent hacking. I lived in Texas and Kansas growing up, there was exactly zero chance my parents would take me to NYC or LA to get a Pokemon, and hacking was the only way I got to play some of them. Maybe they really didn't understand how big the US is, but that's still not a good reason.

[@sulemonhd2890]

Nice Video I did not expect shaymin to do this good and If you do a second playthrough with shaymin Land it might be a good idea to get the giga drain TM (19) on Route 209 and the big root on route 214 beacuse with this you heal 80% of the damage dealt and I guess this should be a more consistent way to win even with only one turn of set up.

[@Goldenhawk0]

Natural gift is actually pretty good for solo runs. Just started the video, but Id suggest not discounting the move for pokemon with shallow movepools. The move would be good for type coverage.

[@aardappelgang6335]

OFC THE SHAYMIN OF THE SKYYYY WOULD WIN OVER THE FOUL CREATURE OF THE LAND

[@aardappelgang6335]

I hope sky wins have not watched it yet

[@zohebanjum]

Hey Scott! Big fan! I'm surprised you didn't pursue leech seed strats. Hiding behind substitutes while the opponent has leech seed feeding you health is a viable strategy in competitive singles (and shaymin sky is the most effective user of this combo iirc), but it is really slow because of all the animations and text. Still, would be faster than grinding resets I think. Even just leech seeding the problematic enemies while setting up growths might have made the difference.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

That’s a good idea. I’m too used to leech seed being 1/16 damage (gen1)

[@NamelessP-wv6lf]

I love your videos! I do have a suggestion. Have you considered collecting the data on unused bag items at the end of runs. That way you’ll be able to see if there are items you can skip picking up or buying

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

I don’t currently compile that data anywhere but I do try to eliminate unneeded items in followup runs. I don’t bring much attention to it in the video and I can probably squeeze a bit harder to remove all unneeded items

[@NamelessP-wv6lf]

Never thought I’d hear back from you! Biggest thing is keep up the good work! Your videos make my day every time you release one

[@breadpope0358]

Fascinating run, shame you couldnt use Seed Flare (and Earth Power) its a really fun move

[@Trinthegay]

Honestly your VS series is my favorite, didn't expect this to be the first for platinum. (Also shaymin is a mythical)

[@deathby1808]

Your pronunciation is 10/10 Scott!

[@Jason-bd5iq]

In diamond and platinum got shaymin by tweaking to get to its island and was so disappointed I couldn’t get sky form. Also gonna bring up again I think zangoose can probably be top performer in fire red or leaf green due to early swords dance, STAB return and brick break and shadow ball for coverage.

[@nickvitantonio5174]

I think Ghetsis will be easier than Cyrus because he leads with a Cofagrigus that's easy to set up on if you have substitute, whereas it's much harder to set up on Cyrus.

[@bobosmith101]

I do think the Sky form being a first playthrough DID hurt sky by several minutes.

[@timekilling101]

Was semi disappointed that Scott didn't know Luke's ship was a snow speeder but redeemed himself by spelling out AT-AT and not pronouncing at at 😂😂😂

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Hehe I'm really bad at names... I should have looked it up while recording.

[@morgastic23]

You should really consider the move Natural Gift, it's a TM in the Veilstone Dept Store, and changes its type and power based on whatever held berry you have. It's similar to Hidden Power but you don't have to worry about IVs

[@morgastic23]

so maybe a fire type one would've been a good option for Scizor or something else you don't have good damage for

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

I didn’t know about the tm. Good idea!

[@iskander0725]

Ah...You said something funny to me in the context of the wider Pokemon world out here in the beginning. You said Natural Gift while an interesting move is rather useless to you a solo runner, and I agree wholeheartedly. However, the Run and Bun nuzlock community would beg to differ with you on its usefulness. I've seen that crew of people making so much dang use outta that move during their runs. Lmao it has been interesting to see situations like that. Where one move or mon is trashed or over looked by one branch of this entire community only for another branch to be like, "what are you talking about? That move or mon is busted!"

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

That’s awesome! I glad different formats make moves like Natural Gift relevant.

[@gonzoxp]

Of course, Cyrus is the best villain of all the franchises. Anyone who can pull off summoning six legendary pokemon at once is a God. Plus, his team represents evil.

[@gerg905]

30:37 Now, call me crazy, but I think just spamming Return here could have worked. Using a damage calculator, Return does 22.2%-25.9%. After two turns of setup, Magical Leaf does 27.7%-33.3%. So Return has a 6% chance to 5 turn KO with 5 dice rolls for a crit while Magical Leaf has a 0.1% chance to 5 turn KO with 3 dice rolls for a crit. If you went up to level 50, then it would have been a 95.7% chance to 4 hit KO.

[@greyscaleadaven]

Predictions: Land will probably beat sky, the speed difference is quite negligible all things considered, the only thing I could think of it mattering for is Cyrus and Cynthia really bc they both have quite fast pokemon like Garchomp, Lucario, Crobat, Weavile, etc. but Sky is going to be taking a lot more damage in those fights anyways and it's so late game that speed EVs should catch up by that point. I maybe would have still anticipated these fights and gone with a Naive nature for Land, sounds like Swords Dance with a moveset of Zen Headbutt, Return, and a special grass move makes the most sense. So if it's being ran mixed, I think it can sacrifice some Sp. Def in exchange for speed late game. In plat speed matters more than it did in Emerald, mostly bc of speed creep but also bc the enemy mons are just in general trending faster in this game. Sp. Def is not really that big of a loss, fights like Candice and Flint aren't that bad for a mono grass with good defenses/HP, Swords Dance, and coverage. Sky is more obvious, Modest is the clear answer. Even with moves like Return or Quick Attack, 120 Sp. Atk is so much better than 103 attack it's worth taking the dip early game. There is nothing I can think of that you don't just OHKO outside of Roserade from Gardenia and that gets solved by a Return regardless of nature. Speed is definitely not necessary for this mon, but it appreciates more power throughout the playthrough to barrel through threats with it's bad Grass/Flying coverage. Sky gets access to tutor moves like Air Cutter and Ominous Wind, so it doesn't share the same needs as Land when it comes to being mixed or not. Plus I think it needs to maintain bulk a lot more, its typing and stats shake it out to be a lot more fraile in comparison to Land which I think will be its nail in the coffin. We'll see how the playthrough goes though! Post: So I was wrong about a couple things as it turns out, but makes sense in hindsight. I still think Sky is likely more inconsistent, and a better EXP route to save candies is likely out there for Bridge Rival or Cyrus that would allow Land to maintain its lead where Sky falters in the run. Nature I guess was not needed to boost speed, and I get why Zen Headbutt wouldn't be used bc of its inconsistency and time spent getting the move. Honestly I forgot you could keep Growth, but makes sense it was used in this case. I'd still be curious to see a physical set from Land, because SD with Aromatherapy or a Rawst Berry for Will-O may have given it a path to defeating Cyrus faster. Great runs though very tight race!