DELTARUNE HAS A GENOCIDE ROUTE NOW?! ("Snowgrave" Route Full Playthrough)

[@Aubreyiz]

"Hey Noelle, I'm stealing your equipment. Have this glowwrist instead" little did you know it would impact the ending so much

[@ShayyTV]

Funny enough the extra dialogue there was apparently completely unknown and I was the very first person to see it (with footage, at least). It got added to the document with a special note for me :0

[@Aubreyiz]

@@ShayyTV I didn't know that bit

[@thetwizard9290]

@@ShayyTV wow, that’s really cool! Guess it isn’t that big a deal for someone who gets world records on a regular basis, but still!

[@VagueNaming]

@@ShayyTV yo what the fuck, that’s amazing

[@bywfqga7888]

timestamp?

[@r3alityrjectna452]

Notice when Noelle has the ThornRing in battle. Her HP goes down to 55. 55 in Roman numerals: *LV.* This is fucked.

[@thatonepokemonwhateveritwa8371]

It's a 3rd of her health. If you cheat in the thorn ring and give it to Noelle to start with, her health will go down to 30.

[@Era043]

@@thatonepokemonwhateveritwa8371 still could have been planned, make it so when Noelle has thorn ring at the right time it goes down to 55, wouldn't put it past toby

[@masterblaster38]

@@Era043 yeah especially as the HP of the party and noelle is capped at a number.

[@eomex8379]

@@thatonepokemonwhateveritwa8371 I still think it's planned honestly. definitely looks like something toby would do

[@crazycanyon3028]

@@thatonepokemonwhateveritwa8371 but it’s impossible to have your hp not be 55 when looking at a 3rd of it

[@DawnsDeparture]

Oh my god she acknowledged that you were wearing her watch. The previous playthrough I saw of this route didn't switch equipment so Kris just told her it wasn't a dream, but Kris having her watch kinda proves it to her. Wow

[@ElectricPeaPlayz]

Do you know why the watch is important again? I don’t really understand it

[@pakiprime9158]

@@ElectricPeaPlayz its her watch, and kris equipped it in the "dream"

[@ElectricPeaPlayz]

@@pakiprime9158 Oh

[@pakiprime9158]

@JesseMore He couldn't have it equipped for the talk with Noelle, if he didn't equip it in the "dream", because Noelle wouldn't be surprised if she gave it to they after "waking up"

[@friendist9323]

@@pakiprime9158 The watch is an armor, not a ring.

[@SirThane13]

40:21 Noticed her feet shuffle when Kris was passing where the lightning trap was. That's when she thought about stepping off to try and kill you.

[@rufflebag4741]

It would've been deserved.

[@mrtruman4339]

HOW DID I NOT NOTICE THAT.

[@BelBelle468]

@@rufflebag4741 not fully since Kris isn’t down with any of this. But if it was to get rid of the player, I think Kris would do whatever it takes to stop them

[@zodiinitebestupid]

​@@BelBelle468 she doesn't know anything about a "player", from noelle's perspective it's all kris' fault

[@gingergingey8271]

@@zodiinitebestupid She has her suspicions, but still, quite true.

[@MurasakiNoKami]

49:41 Lancer is asleep because if he was awake to see this, he'd immediately tell Susie what you've been doing

[@r1car443]

good point

[@Moon-Archive]

Oh god you're right- Susie would freak. Plus how Kris looks hurt, because _you_ are doing this, not Kris...

[@Icanbarelysing]

Snitches get stitches after all =)

[@NormalDude-h5u]

Also when u see him in ur inv it says innocent boys fast asleep

[@unnamedscribble-auttp]

fun fact: you can use this to tell if you're doing snowgrave right

[@maxdashen]

The animation of noelle when you encounter an enemy changes from her being scared to her being emotionless and she has a new anim when you win

[@dallama2616]

her defend is also different. she makes an ice wall

[@alzhanvoid]

I wonder if its statistically different? Does the icewall defend more even if you have the same defense as before?

[@Empy_C.]

Her regular attack anim (whose existence noöne remembers) also changes

[@twilighttiger2368]

I think the emphasis was in the 1st chapter that YOUR choices don't matter, and we find this out in Chapter 1 if you attempt a No Mercy run (and it fails). However in Chapter 2, we've now discovered that there is a "loophole" in that rule; YOUR choices don't matter, but that rule apparently doesn't apply to the people AROUND you. THEIR choices DO matter and You (the player) are exploiting that loophole by manipulating Noelle into doing what you actually want to do, but can't do it yourself because of the rule. Basically, You (the player) are essentially using Noelle as 3rd party conduit to successfully enact your will for a true No Mercy run through her actions without technically violating the rule yourself.

[@KirbyGamerEX27]

What a twisted but valid point of view

[@nonec384]

doing a snowgrave route doesnt kill anyone so your choices dont matter

[@shaquilleeurope2600]

@@nonec384 I'm pretty sure those ice sculptures that used to be our enemies aren't alive and well

[@nonec384]

@@shaquilleeurope2600 they are frozen not dead if they somehow unfroze they would be alive and well

[@herb2110]

@@nonec384 can’t really be sure about that until chapter 3 comes out

[@thatonepotato276]

I wonder if 'your choices don't matter,' is only about how Kris' life ends up. You can ruin lives and kill, but Kris cannot change their own fate

[@bigshotrobi]

they can't because us, the players controls him

[@SeniorSatoru]

@@bigshotrobi he very clearly has the power to get in and out of us anyways

[@vanillapowpow7719]

It makes sense, especially with the whole thing about "Deltarune will only have one ending." With Ch.1 I kind of believed that because of how little of an effect it had on starting Ch. 2. But seeing how things ended in Ch. 2, especially with Berdly and Noelle, I'm not sure anymore.

[@Double400]

@@vanillapowpow7719 it might end up being a technicality Like *technically* its the same ending Like how in undertale depending on pacifist or genocide you're still the angel that empties the underground

[@pablopereyra7126]

@@Double400 I think there will always be the same ending _scene,_ but the _journey_ that came _before_ doesn't have that limitation. As they say, maybe the true ending was the friends we made along the way.

[@falloutphan7341]

Sometimes I forget just how unsettling this route is, and then I sit down and actually watch a playthrough and I feel chills down my spine

[@ShayyTV]

haha chills that's funny

[@falloutphan7341]

@@ShayyTV lol thank u for appreciating my lukewarm pun that i put exactly 0.02 seconds of thought into :P

[@troublemonkey1_626]

You feel chills down your spine, I feel sins crawling up my back

[@Smitology]

@@falloutphan7341 Lukewarm isn't exactly the word I'd use

[@i_am_anxious02]

“Your choices don’t matter in this game guys you can do whatever you want” Also I really like how we’re calling it snowgrave instead of genocide

[@Yuti640]

Yeah, it’s a way better name and better differentiates it from just fighting everything you come across Plus it’s more representative of the main themes of the route

[@supermariozelda]

Your choices don't matter. But you can force Noelle to make the choices for you.

[@i_am_anxious02]

@@supermariozelda and what do we call it when we have an option to make someone do something for us? Do we *choose* whether to make them do it?

[@alleksfc1167]

Some things changed but the ending is still the same so yeah, your choices still dont matter for the outcome.

[@SuperDuperJamer]

I think "the snowgrave route" is the best name, much agreed

[@yourcollegedebt8384]

1:03:25 Toby: "You want it that bad!? Fine! Have a genocide route! Don't come crying to me if you regret it!"

[@miffinXD]

I regret my life choices after watching the video At least sans isn't the scariest now

[@zeo4481]

@@miffinXD We the players have ALWAYS been the scariest Characters in these games

[@ARCHIVED9610]

is it bad this is my favorite route bc of spamton lmao

[@sumthngcool4221]

“Oh, you want your choices to matter? FINE. Here, make some choices, they’ll matter.”

[@xbirdshorts5075]

It's honestly perfectly executed, i mean something like that is meant to be highly disturbing, and it is highly disturbing here

[@ScaredSackless4566]

I love that chat during the berdly rematch went from "MURDER BERDLY" to "oh shit!"

[@armageddongirl612]

:(

[@Blwbelle]

Got what they wanted didn't they?

[@Artoriandaraisin]

Let's kill Berdly! Oh shoot I think we killed Berdly...

[@icebeam-enterprise8164]

"Haha! Fuck that bird! >:D ... ...oh....."

[@SomecallmeJohnny]

This route is so incredibly fucked. WAY worse than the Genocide route of Undertale.

[@Othermage]

Worst part is, there was NOTHING like this in chapter 1. We were literally given no warning that this was even possible. Are these “snowgrave”-esque routes going to get even worse as the chapters go on?

[@SoujiaSoldierKitty]

JOHNNY! Bro! I love your videos man, and yeah, this is WAY darker from an implication standpoint than the Genocide Route EVER was! I don't even think we can call this route Genocide, we, should probably just name it the "Control Freak" route. Since it's clear "The Soul" themselves are the ones driving the characters to try and kill everyone, and Kris and Noelle are trying to stop them!

[@alleksfc1167]

Some things changed but the ending is still the same so yeah, your choices still dont matter for the outcome.

[@SoujiaSoldierKitty]

@@alleksfc1167 ...And yet, other people's choices do.

[@alleksfc1167]

@@SoujiaSoldierKitty No because the ending is still exactly the same like I said, yeah some people can die, some things can change but no matter how good or bad the relationship between you and the other characters is, the "result" is still the same.

[@Shadowdtz]

Pros: -Berdly died Cons: -Berdly died

[@mrboerger1620]

Fucking berdly noooo

[@sonario6489]

There are no cons

[@henrykado]

@@sonario6489 There are no pros

[@appelofdoom8211]

The fact that he instantly realized something is very wrong with noelle and doesn’t actually attack her during the fight did make me like him more. That just made murdering him worse for me.

[@klinxium8627]

@@appelofdoom8211 berdly’s annoying, but his character is really sad.

[@ChristopherMoom]

It's insane how we're only in Chapter *_2,_* and we're already starting to witness some genuinely terrifying scenes, seeing Noelle get treated so coldly felt really dark I can't wait to see what Toby does with the rest of DeltaRune, because so far, its been a really great experience

[@TheJordan276]

we gonna have more dark genocide stuff than we ever had in the undertale/deltarune 2 chpaters reunited

[@EinMannMitEi]

Long time no see. Still remember you on someone Undertale pacifist run vid

[@Strangephilia]

“Coldly”

[@yokuutsu9097]

Noelle WILL ride.

[@johnmendez9525]

*coldly* Bruh

[@Typi]

"Didnt you know [NEO] is famous for its high defense?" And just like Metaton's high defense, it was slashed through in one single big shot.

[@i_am_anxious02]

“Mettaton’s high defense” that’s a good one

[@LarryButz]

[Big Shot] you say?

[@DarkLink1996.]

@@i_am_anxious02 Well, yeah. That's the joke in the game. Mettaton NEO is Genocide Mettaton

[@romanfrancis1232]

Well that’s what NEO stands for. Non Effective Obstacle

[@agiar2000]

Yup, one big shot by someone who's been doing a WHOLE lot of killing. =)

[@invalid_user_handle]

There's a small jingle that plays every time you do something that influences the SnowGrave route. Once when you freeze the first enemy, another once you freeze all enemies before the first room, the third once after you freeze all enemies in the FreezeRing room, the fourth after you get the FreezeRing and answer "It's natural" to Noelle's thoughts, the fifth after you Proceed Noelle past the 2nd annoying mouse room, the 6th (and last one) after Noelle completes the 3rd annoying mouse room herself. Notably, a different, more positive-sounding jingle will play instead of the fourth or fifth instance if you either say it's horrible or don't Proceed, indicating the SnowGrave route was aborted.

[@hannahbrown5465]

40:47 here is one :)

[@evalig871]

This is a year old comment but just coming in to clarify it doesnt matter whether you tell Noelle that its horrible or natural, the dialogue is the same either way and snowgrave isnt aborted

[@MayroSMM]

Gonna be honest I didn't buy the whole "your choices don't matter" thing for a second. I knew somewhere, somehow there would be a curveball.

[@CindyRubyCutie]

I think that line may be referring to Kris themselves, since they have no autonomy in what happens its just us as the player speaking and moving in their stead.

[@grinstrashcan]

The line is about Kris, not us. The Player does, of course, have a choice. It's Kris who doesn't. We're controling them and that's why they're trying to get rid of us.

[@porkyminch1640]

yourself, not others.

[@Raymanlegacy]

Yeah sure there’s only one ending S u r e

[@frisolaxod3835]

@@Raymanlegacy I think it's more about the journey compared to Undertale which is about the ending. Maybe the ending will play out the exact same for both routes, but the events leading up to them will change massively depending on the choices you force other people, like Noelle, to make?

[@assailant8722]

This version of Spamton NEO was my first fight against him. As you can imagine, it was insanely difficult for me. The flip side is that when I went against him in my pacifist file later, I beat him in a single attempt. I was hardened in the crucible of Snowgrave

[@s.a.k.i7768]

Oh yeah,if you first meet Spamton Neo in the Snowgrave route, you bet you're gonna get your ass kicked HAAARD! Cause unlike in the Pacifist route, you're all alone,so no room for Errors if you die, there's no Revival Mint to save you.

[@synthetic_creature]

same

[@khloeg1649]

yeah snowgrave was my first spamton neo encounter as well, I never managed to beat him lmaooo so I technically haven't finished snowgrave yet, that's why I watched this

[@kazrielkazoo]

oh my god literally exact same for me lol

[@spamtoniumg]

Same thing i also first fought him in snowgrave but i was able to beat him in 5-6 tries

[@zeptik3697]

This is on a whole different level than the Genocide route of Undertale. I have never ever felt so bad and disgusted about myself.

[@adoggo5884]

…

[@cannabishornliu6119]

Exactly! Instead of being just a force of evil we pushed a adorable, innocent girl like Noelle to the breaking point and let her do all the dirty work! It's like we corrupted Noelle's character and if Chapter 3 and onward build on the Snowgrave Route I think Noelle turns evil or will be corrupted! It seems like Berdley is dead for real and if Noelle ever gets her memories back she will break!

[@DeviousKid45]

I felt like Heath Ledger's Joker from The Dark Knight.

[@gooquestione]

@@adoggo5884 what

[@michaellatner975]

@@cannabishornliu6119 Honestly, i think with the Snowgrave route, that in the end, it'll be kris and noelle fighting everyone, including ralsei and susie. In the end, it'll be the end of the world, as kris fuses with the soul.

[@powertheimmortal]

48:44 noelle:”all finished, Kris. Should we find some more enemies?” Thanks I hate it.

[@YouMayKnowMeAsNate]

Kris: turns to camera and smiles

[@philipjorgensen2628]

She also starts smiling when she says, "Looks like another enemy. Should I freeze them Kris?"

[@PikaPenny17]

Kris is not happy during a snowgrave route.

[@collectmyhandles]

@@YouMayKnowMeAsNate nowadays do you think kris is evil ( they aren't)

[@YouMayKnowMeAsNate]

@@collectmyhandles of course Kris isn’t evil. The player is controlling Kris’s actions. Kris doesn’t have any culpability for this

[@korange_yt]

"Kris called for help.." "*You* whispered Noelle's name"

[@PerfectZeroMusic_]

Toby really wants to get the message across like "Aren't you disgusted with yourself for doing this?"

[@LesFleurssDuMal]

Its pretty enjoyable to do it

[@hyperlaserrebrn]

@@LesFleurssDuMalget a therapist, please

[@LesFleurssDuMal]

@@hyperlaserrebrn your response to my comments amuses me

[@bloxxer717]

@@hyperlaserrebrndude you gotta understand something I don’t like Dialouge and snowgrave has less

[@Elaniden]

@@bloxxer717 this makes no sense

[@themodernguitarist]

With Spamton's lore, there was a brief period where he was considered the "[BIG SHOT]". 1997 must be the year he was a [BIG SHOT].

[@dove_inblack3546]

The virus guys also say “happy 1997!”

[@czsgenesis]

My guess is that Spamton was an old 1997 virus, probably one who was based on infecting computers by clicking on an link, which was one of the biggest at the time, but after all those years now he cannot infect anything because all his links gets instantly blocked, so he isnt a "BIG SHOT" anymore, and thus he felt that he lost his freedom and can't do hi job anymore. After he became big again with NEO, he understood that he can't get what he achieved for even with his NEO power because he is limited to be what he was programmed for, a virus, so he cant get real freedom like he desires.

[@themodernguitarist]

@@czsgenesis when you first meet him he says "TOP SALESMAN OF THE YEAR 1997" so I think he's older than that.

[@mappyl7207]

but if deltarune is a sequel to undertale, didnt frisk go up the mountain in 201X? deltarune could be a PREquel

[@Empy_C.]

@@mappyl7207 DELTARUNE is not a sequel nor a prequel to UNDERTALE.

[@AlphaPizzadog]

"titans emerge and all darkners turn to statues" sounds kinda like the titans are lightners and the statues are -darkners- marketable plushies

[@klinxium8627]

lancer plush

[@xaviormckinney5300]

If you pay attention she is leveling up as it goes depending on what happens in later chapters we might have a new problem to worry about

[@Yuti640]

She even goes behind Kris’ HP

[@WrongNumber76]

Don’t worry my boy kris obtain dominance of her Nothing to worry about

[@ArceTheTroll]

@@WrongNumber76 your boi kris is prob a bad person-

[@Typi]

@@ArceTheTroll I dont think Kris is the bad person in this situation...

[@Typi]

@Bilateral You're the one doing it. Not Kris. Sure, you might be using Kris's body, but it definitely isn't Kris who is entering the prompts, or is able to hear internal monolog, now is it? Edit: Smurt said it before I could respond lol. But yeah, Kris is basically in the same situation as Noelle, where they're being forced to do something they dont want to.

[@lamegamertime]

23:33 Actually, that guy's not the guy you fought, it's the NPC earlier in the same room who went "the Queen will never turn me into a werewire!" And immediately at the end you see he was turned into a werewire. (That's why he has a bowler hat)

[@Jonas_Mikkelsen]

Thanks, I didn't realize that until now, but that's actually kind of funny

[@emmalion1976]

Damn that's dark

[@Dan0RG]

If you reach the guy without fighting any of the other enemies, they'll appear as another enemy rather than a regular NPC. That's what Shayy was referring to.

[@azurebalmung4520]

He cleaned up the lab while Berdly was in there... Remember the info of the closet? "A closet full of old electronics" *_"A large person could fit in there easily"_* HE HID THE BODY

[@PGerman.]

Seems like he is not dead yet, just in a coma. It would make sense for Kris to, put him in the closet and just wait 2-3 days and he hopefully will dehydrate/starve etc (I think one of the Grillbys patrons in Undertale's pacifist/neutral run said that monsters have a different biology when it comes to food. but I am uncertain what exactly was said.) and once he dies he will just turn into dust if Undertale Logic applies, which makes it impossible to determin that this pile of dust in an old closet with old electronics is Berdly

[@Viiragon]

@The Lonely Proto We don't know yet whether he's dead. He might be, he might not. Future chapters will confirm that. We just know that the spell had an effect on his light-world-self, and that he didn't wake up after returning. 👀 It's not out of the question though and that scares me. That should HUGELY affect the future story if that's the case (Like... I'm not sure how Toby will logistically handle an event like that 😅).

[@khoihoang6385]

@The Lonely Proto still there is a cemetery in the city, right? And so, those who has "Fallen Down" turned to dust and buried in the cemetery. Sooner or later, Berdly will be in the same fate as those if he not wake up...

[@Shalakor]

@@khoihoang6385 Although, it's not certain if the graves mark bodies, or are just monuments with maybe a personal object being buried. Father Alvin talks about Gerson's grave having a hammer buried there, but is unspecific about a body.

[@alzhanvoid]

@@Viiragon Ehm, let me repeat to you Snowgrave's skill description: _FATAL_

[@LammyOW]

W-Wait?! Kris why are you wearing my watch?! Sent chills down my spine, god

[@Theking0fgg]

Missread this for like a second, thought you wrote "Why are you wearing my spine"

[@VagueNaming]

@@Theking0fggthat would be pretty bad too

[@infinityheart_tm9270]

What makes this far more horrifying is that we couldn't do this to Susie or Ralsei in chapter 1 because the former was doing it anyways, and the latter is frankly too pure for now at least. But Noelle, she's perfect in this regard because of two factors, she trusts "Kris" completely and her power is perfect for immobilizing foes into a cold icy statue. I am truly horrified about what WE did to Noelle and what we have planted in her.

[@SJohann]

With how Ralsei acts in this route, it seems more like he's trying to keep the plot, evidenced by his confusion of the loss of the Susie x Noelle scene.

[@tintedpalette653]

Another important distinction is that neither ralsei or Susie have fatal attacks. Noelle’s ice spell is freezing the enemies so they don’t flee like with any other attack.

[@ItsB1998]

The Knight did it not us

[@infinityheart_tm9270]

@@ItsB1998 yeah go on, just use everything as a scapegoat, let me know how that goes

[@ItsB1998]

@@infinityheart_tm9270Sure from our world perspective it was us because we're playing a game, but we don't actually exist within the world. The snowroute and the options to choose were already laid out for us.

[@buckyfish91]

Interesting how Noelle's battle-start animation changes after getting the ring

[@hayond656]

Which ring?

[@buckyfish91]

@@hayond656 The first one. FreezeRing

[@herus1]

Also defense changes

[@Gaster60066]

"Trance"

[@spyhy4019]

Outside of Kris and susie, there are 7 other classmates Noelle is the murderer, Birdly is dead, leaves 5 There are 5 more chapters...

[@sleepyote]

🤔

[@krisdreemurrlightnerconnoi1728]

i SWEAR if anything happens to temmie then SOMEONE IS GOING TO REGRET IT

[@lpfan4491]

@@krisdreemurrlightnerconnoi1728 Yeah no, Tem is going down.

[@Shalakor]

Nobody cares about the 10th student: Eg. It's tough being hard boiled.

[@miaspaghetti]

Noelle is 100% getting betrayed af

[@pandabanaan9208]

So the difference is in genocide you felt like a force of nature, just something that mindlessly murders anything that crosses its path, in snowgrave you feel more like an actual villain where you emotionally manipulate another person to turn her into your puppet, I think this is why people think snowgrave is worse even though genocide is objectively worse, snowgrave just feels worse

[@BeaztChannel]

Also, Just wanna point out that the thorns take away noelle's health to 55. THE ONLY reason why is because 55 in roman numerals is LV. Toby is a fucking genius.

[@sageofmugen1724]

WOW

[@chimitrash2966]

It's also a third of her health I still think it was intentional tho

[@arcturusplays7773]

"Imagine if this was my first time fighting Spamton, like I hadn't done it normally." Thaaaat's me! I thought I could use the Snowgrave route to also do the secret boss. And well. I was *kind of* right.

[@michaellatner975]

Well I was.kind of the same, I heard of snowgrave searched how to do it, followed and did the whole thing blind, also I haven't fought neo before cause I didnt know he existed...

[@masterstylez6960]

From what i could tell, putting Noelle's watch on Kris changed the final dialouge with her. Without it, she doesn't ask "Kris, why are you wearing my watch" she says something else.

[@cryptidx6088]

shoutout to when i asked who is controlling spamton neo in chat and someone replied "society"

[@azurebalmung4520]

At least in the original Genocide, it was just your own decisions. Now you're twisting this cinnamon bun of a girl into becoming a literal stone-cold killer.

[@gonefishing9781]

More like, stone-COLD... h a

[@klinxium8627]

@@gonefishing9781 that’s exactly what they said🤨

[@MirrorHall_Clay]

@@gonefishing9781 You missed the opportunity for a way better comment More like, ICE-cold

[@blueberrycrepes]

@@MirrorHall_Clay what’s cooler then cool

[@clawcakes]

@@blueberrycrepes ICE COLD!

[@randolphrosenberg2994]

Tip for Spamton: Hold down Z while tapping Enter as you fire. This'll let you fire the big bullets at the speed of the smaller ones. This makes Spamton a lot easier to fight!

[@squashgaming7219]

noice

[@Mark6O9]

Now let me patch it out

[@benjaminurquhart]

He found out just after the stream.

[@randolphrosenberg2994]

@@Wyrmsforbrains But it makes speeding through some of the attacks so much easier (The face, the one with the phone call, the heart etc)

[@collarbones4511]

Also, pressing F1 gives you health

[@SemiHypercube]

Ah, the merry olde days when there was no bed skip or consistent DJs and people thought the Trash Zone door and Ferris wheel poster were required for the Snowgrave route. How far this game has come

[@unnamedscribble-auttp]

wait the door and poster ARENT required for it???

[@AllanGuiHaya70]

I mean you still have to kill those enemies there so the door might aswell be

[@imbion6965]

For my own reference: 29:21 is when he gets Noelle.

[@abandoned_channel41515]

thank you

[@anyapeanutlover]

Fun fact: You can also get into the Snowgrave route without doing a full Genocide/Attack run in the beginning of Chapter 2, before you have Noelle as your team.

[@jamescarrotcsl8]

you can also spare in the queens mansion after with no consequence

[@anyapeanutlover]

@@jamescarrotcsl8 Yeah, because it'll only judge on how many enemies you've recruited post-game. Taking the beginning of SnowGrave route would automatically make all of your recruits lost, but recruiting enemies in The Queen's Mansion would nullify the "You left them all behind" condition.

[@jamescarrotcsl8]

@@anyapeanutlover I also like to think of it like that now you dont have noelle anymore your choices are back to not mattering

[@anyapeanutlover]

​@@jamescarrotcsl8 It's strange that your choices from conversations doesn't matter anymore (Ex: Trying to give up in the Boxing mini-game in both Arcade and Final Boss, Choices from Susie doesn't change anything, etc). This is excluding the part from Chapter 1 where Kris tell Susie about the puzzle to get both of them out of the cage. And it's strange that Noelle is the only person who's choices does actually matter, even though the mysterious entity (as in the voices like Noelle said) have instances of forceful action off screen. I think either the mysterious voices (Or Kris himself) say that it's not important and it doesn't change anything, or, if it's HIGHLY important that could change anything. Like how the Queen said that Noelle is strong. Strong to the point that it can change anything, which is why her ice powers are ridiculously strong from the start. Which is why you're able to tell Noelle to *PROCEED*, which is an option that is very important or the command is an action.

[@biraptor6205]

oh so you're telling me the mass murder is the least frightening thing anout this

[@juanescoweffer3969]

*"Yes"*

[@RichConnerGMN]

nice pfp

[@zhanehoyle8269]

i was fine without knowing or seeing this route minutes ago. not i can't get this horrible feeling off my chest literally.

[@digino24]

I did this route earlier, it gave me *chills* haha. But seriously this is fucking up. The player has always been the villain in these scenarios. And, our decisions might not matter, but others do..

[@Zack_Zander]

God damnit Sans

[@ItsB1998]

It's not the Player, it's whatever is possessing Kris. Most likely the Knight

[@digino24]

@@ItsB1998 Dude, the player is possessing kris. We are the red soul, which is inside kris. Hell, kris themself might be the knight

[@ItsB1998]

@@digino24 Even if we canonically are the Soul, the one snatching us out wouldn't be Kris because he doesn't have any reason to. He can still do everything he wants with us inside of them.

[@digino24]

@@ItsB1998 No? How would you explain us moving him around? Us making choices? We, in every sense of the word, are controlling kris. Noelle makes specific note about Kris acting differently, and makes note about how different Kris’ voice sounded right after the hospital visit. She makes note of the voice being strange and terrifying RIGHT AFTER we choose an option. Also Kris is a they/them and literally everyone inside the games calls them that lol

[@Yuti640]

YOUR choices don’t matter Which is why Noelle has to make them

[@Zack_Zander]

I feel like Noelle is suppose to resemble Frisk/Chara while Kris is simply used as a vessel for the player. Everything that Noelle did and thought was Kris telling her was the player... Noelle was forced to freeze the everyone like how the Player forced Frisk to kill everyone, and Noelle was also manipulated into doing it on her own like how the Player indirectly cause Chara to go all psychopathically mad. PS: Not many people know this, but all of the inner dialogue of Frisk in Undertale during the Neutral and Pacifist route is actually Chara (especially all of the “Determination” quotes) and that the dialogue slowly corrupt and went mad overtime during the Genocide route. That is Chara.

[@Yuti640]

@@Zack_Zander I thought that PS part was common knowledge

[@Zack_Zander]

@@Yuti640 Possibly, but after this long, I’ve seen people who just either forget or somehow never knew about it. Probably that they don’t focus on the hidden lore of Undertale.

[@selimyucel741]

Its Kris's to me considering the fact OUR choices made Noelle do this and this is why in the end Kris goes to bathroom rips his soul and jumps of and looking at how he left the tub open and how he had it suggests that he wanted to be noticed

[@mariotheundying]

@@Zack_Zander there are people who don't believe it because it needs more evidence

[@koperuz6943]

1:17:32 actually this was my first Spamton NEO fight. I didn’t get the secret boss in my normal play through because i’m dumb and didn’t know there was a room if you walked back. It took me around 2 days to beat it because i’m not a god gamer and i couldn’t stack up on great food. I had no idea what the patterns were and almost gave up. I was playing for hours and hours until i finally beat him the next day. Thank you for the amazing bosses Toby :D

[@unnamedscribble-auttp]

ik you said you beat it, but for food just stock up on cd bagels from the vending machine

[@krisiverse]

i love seeing everyone freak out over it in chat, it's fantastic seeing from when it was all brand new and undocumented and no one knew what to expect! toby really outdid himself this time huh

[@curllum]

Imagine if everything in all the chapters is a red herring and your ending depends on if you got the banana or not

[@lpfan4491]

Kris died of potassium deficiency. Without joke tho, this would technically require the game to store in the savefile if the bananas were obtained or not. And I don't think it is.

[@synthetic_creature]

@@lpfan4491 this is literally 1984

[@guster-animations]

i joined the deltarune fandom after chapter 2 came out. it’s crazy to see what the initial reaction to discovering snowgrave was, i didn’t know people were this shocked

[@testerwulf3357]

There wasn't really any hints that the route existed, and in chapter 1 we were told "your choices don't matter" and killing was impossible..so it shocked everyone when in chapter 2 the opposite was the case (and it's extremely dark..)

[@doctornsilver3882]

I kinda expected there to be a route similar to this in some way. But i always thought it'd be in a smaller way compared to undertale. I also never expected it to be WORSE in context, as well. Toby fox killed it with this game, dude. For both routes.

[@Tulip_bip]

honestly it felt like discovering the genocide route all over again

[@felixcnminus]

The whole noelle manipulation stuff is so messed up, really didnt expect that to be this bad wow

[@cdmilky]

People in chat keep saying how Kris is the one doing this and that is missing the point so hard Dont point the blame, its you who did it, you made Noelle that way, Kris is just the middle messenger, you control Kris and they have no autonomy in your control, remember?

[@sansundertale8765]

Congrats on being possibly the first to have a streamed blind reaction to this.

[@fiammaorsmth9840]

So this bird guy, he turns himself into a Rupee, funniest shit I've ever seen

[@artiblanco1288]

There is actually more dialogue at the end. If you go back to the Dark World, Queen will appear and note that nobody came with her. She even asks where Nubert is, and the only other monster, TRASHY, appears, telling her that Nubert "wouldn't come without everyone else" implying that Nubert let himself die in Cyber World.

[@lpfan4491]

That actually happens when failing to recruit everyone. So it's entirely possible to pacifist the chapter and Nubert still bites the dust because we just didn't do enough work.

[@AU78]

i have a question for everyone saying that Toby lied when he said there would only be one ending, If you're on a roadtrip with your family going somewhere, is there really only one specific way to arrive at that somewhere? Or would there be multiple roads that all connect and lead to that somewhere?

[@hexgarcias3653]

If everyone's dead/frozen by the end of it, then the ending will have to be different by chapter 7. If not, that's just horrible game design by Toby Fox.

[@VForceWave]

@@hexgarcias3653 Well, in Undertale, in a neutral route you can kill plenty of characters and still get the same overall ending. Seems like a similar thing might be happening here.

[@Xendrick]

I feel like the choices won't matter for KRIS, as on the bigger picture where the ending will always be the same But the difference is those smaller decisions will also change certain details and characters, and in the end, you affect everyone else but yourself

[@Xendrick]

Maybe slowly but surely, we'll be fighting for our freedom to finally choose and have it matter Or maybe the different smaller changes we make depending on the routes chosen could eventually pile up to finally change the big picture

[@RancorSnp]

@@hexgarcias3653 Since chapter 1 release Toby has said that this game will only have one ending - no matter what you do the final destination is the same event. But on the "if there is only one ending, does it mean nothing the player does matters" he replied that some things are more important than reaching the end. So yeah, it does not matter for the ending of the game if you cleared it as a pacifist or killed every single person in town. But it does matter to you and the NPCs.

[@Hells_Sock]

I hate that we only get the brown bricks reference at the genocide route

[@111112oo]

It's in the normal route too. Do the "checks quest", then head bottom left in the dark world town after beating Queen, Hacker will mention it.

[@Whispernyan]

This route has legitimately changed me, Toby you mad lad

[@NuclearEg.g]

Its so dark

[@selimyucel741]

@@NuclearEg.g and also a litteral Meme

[@infinityheart_tm9270]

Don’t bite the hand that feeds you, you know what we did.

[@NuclearEg.g]

@@infinityheart_tm9270 what does this even mean

[@infinityheart_tm9270]

@@NuclearEg.g The point is that throughout the whole run I knew who was responsible. Me

[@sansundertale8765]

"WE WERE SUPPOSED TO?" !!! Ralsei is aware of an infinitely repeating timeline holy f*ck

[@QTPiOfficial]

Where is this?

[@sansundertale8765]

@@QTPiOfficial When Susie goes into Noelle's room on the top floor of the castle.

[@dallama2616]

im pretty sure ralsei is not in a loop but rather has knowledge of how the events are going to play out.We know darkners are just inanimate objects given life and we know ralsei is aware of their nature so its likely that ralsei is setting up these stories for kris and susie to go through. Also ralsei was probably gonna say "we were supposed to see what susie was doing". Imagining how susie is doing literally lets the player find out what susie is doing. Making the player see how susie is doing gives an opportunity for ralsei to talk to kris without the player knowing what they talk about

[@sansundertale8765]

@@dallama2616 yeah I think that's actually right, he acts as a sort of guide. He honestly seems a bit too oblivious to have Sans level awareness

[@sinteleon]

@@sansundertale8765 Unless it's all an act.

[@macmadness5932]

1:26:58 dude- your reaction is so amazingly awful youre giving a grin like "hah we just did bad stuff but toby's gonna have berdly wake up any second now" and then he didnt and your mouth dropped and your eyes W I D E N E D

[@Unknown-ti5eh]

to be QUITE and I mean QUITE HONEST. This was way more freaky than the genocide route of Undertale ngl.

[@azurebalmung4520]

In the Genocide path, it was you making dark decisions from the get-go and the monsters slowly realizing it. In the Snowgrave path, you literally have to watch Kris BREAK a monster's spirit piece by piece.

[@knopfir]

@@azurebalmung4520 you mean you have to watch as YOU break a monsters spirit piece by piece? the player controlling kris via the SOUL is an established aspect of deltarune yknow.

[@nerdycookiebunny856]

@@azurebalmung4520 kris? Kris?!?! Last thing I checked kris soul is isn't his it isn't kris doing it is it You is it us the player forcing the cinnamon role noelle to freeze and somewhat kill an entire city..

[@Gaster60066]

@@nerdycookiebunny856 your spelling is fucked up but you're right

[@MirrorHall_Clay]

and this is just chapter TWO, whatever Toby is gonna follow this up with in the future chapters might just end up making UT's genocide route look tame in comparison

[@frozenfusion6072]

Deltarune has a genocide which I will not be doing. Undertale’s is just mindless killing and then surviving Sans at the end. This genocide is literally mentally and verbally abusing someone into committing murder.

[@ManiacalBlueberry]

Thats the fun part

[@Empy_C.]

you forgot to mention that that someone is a cinnamon roll. very important detail

[@nypxD]

@@ManiacalBlueberry that's the most fucked up part, what you said it's literally the purpouse and fault of this route and, it'd make sense for you to think of it like that but i'm still not doing it

[@julianstyles4539]

Cry more

[@ViIvaNunner]

i already regret doing genocide. im not doin snowgrave. you dont even get to fight new cool bosses in this route, just spamton neo but youre alone even if future chapters did get new evil route bosses i dont think id want to do it

[@salvinova5835]

As a person who has played the genocide route countless times, this genuinely makes me sick. I don't think ill play this route....

[@Amonimus]

30:21 "This is a very CHILL stream."

[@Ikcatcher]

Absolute power corrupts absolutely, why get blood on your own hands when you can make someone else do it?

[@SwizzleDrizzl]

Can I use this quote in a thing im writing 👁👁

[@Ikcatcher]

@@SwizzleDrizzl Idk man do whatever

[@will-ev2143]

When you get the thorn ring he called you angle does he always call us that..... And a darker darker dream... Lord

[@I_love_space.]

A small detail in chapter 2 is that when susie and kris enter cyber city for the first time, a spark comes out of kris, meaning either rouxls or lancer left, lancer is still in your inventory which rouxls left, that’s how rouxls ends up outside your inventory and fights you.

[@farodin04]

Just did the run myself with the instructions in the video description and now I'll continue to watch the video. Thank you Shayy for showing it to us. The =) is strong with this one.

[@greatbrandini1874]

Good work on getting this out there shayy, we credited you in the doc

[@maldambao6126]

Turns out the only one capable of turning Noelle's face into a robot was us all along. And that final bit with Noelle talking about a voice that does not belong to Kris, was that evidence that Kris isn't naturally a bad person, or was it just denial?

[@analogsmiles]

the voice not belonging to kris is the player. kris is not the bad guy of this route ( other than the very end but that happens on any route ), we're forcing them to force noelle.

[@daridon2483]

@13. Ghani Ziyad Sagiansyah Also when susie wanted to bring the dark world into the light one (aka lancer and ralsei), the real kris created a fountain near her and toriel while the house door is open (which is unheard off since the other dark world's doors were initially shut off), so it can leak out Maybe kris is granting her wishes true? So yeah, not necessarily a bad guy, but not sure what their intentions are

[@mariotheundying]

@@daridon2483 Kris probably mad that they didn't finish the pie /j

[@insomnium369]

the voice of chara

[@dronz3881]

@@insomnium369 No. It's the voice of you, the player. *You* whisper Noelle's name.

[@commandblock7077]

Scary thing is that usually in Delta rune, the enemy runs away once hurt. But she straight up freezes them.

[@Opossum_queen]

This is so fucked up. Noelle was your childhood friend, the one who you used to hang out and play with after school and other holidays. Somebody who used to be gentle and caring about others and yet, so selfless. And you used her to just kill, you gastlight her till you broke her, make her buy a expensive ring with her own monet, and killed somebody in literal and figurative cold blood. You destroyed the image that she had on you and changed it in just one dark world adventure... fuck this was horrible...

[@DoublemanFM]

Hate to break it to you, but... *She didn't pay for that ring.*

[@iHIMMA]

And the watch just cemented the fact that every second of it happened.

[@romanfrancis1232]

Well, she’s Kris’s childhood friend, not yours

[@brolytriplethreat]

Well, she was _Kris'_ childhood friend, and you the player use _Kris_ to use _her_. Which just kinda makes it even more horrifying.

[@sinteleon]

It's also hinted that Kris was pretty creepy and possibly controlling before all this.

[@niconasu2275]

Dude. I just found this channel, but I absolutely love your content and commentary. I gotta hop into one of the streams sometime

[@ShayyTV]

Thank you! :D

[@jaysonl]

Oh, I just knew coming to check an Undertale/Deltarune speedrunner's reaction to Snowgrave would be worth it. Liked. Subscribed. Followed on Twitch.

[@heknowswherefranceis4838]

No clue if someone's pointed this out yet, but Noelle is drained until her HP is at 55. In Roman numerals it's LV. The attention to detail is astonishing.

[@Brajxdv]

"Who's ready for genocide speedruns?" I know it's not a speedrun but that quote is iconic for me.

[@ViIvaNunner]

terrified of the concept of a snowgrave-esque route in chapter 3 seeing as it seems maybe toriel and undyne and/or napstablook will be in the dark world

[@gdarcticwolf6226]

Rewatching this video, I just noticed the line “Ambyu-Lance is comparing the battle to a dentist visit” referencing Asgore’s analogy in Undertale I know that’s not new, but I just noticed it lol

[@tweets009]

i still love how we were just not expecting this at all and then it just got found what was it 16 hours after ch2 released and no one believed it but since it happened its completely changed how we all see deltarune and will see its future chapters forever and its so awesome rewatching people play or discover it for the first time i cant wait for anything else like this in the future

[@hexgamingyt4209]

Spamton: hey is it a bit cold in here? Noelle:always has been.

[@thememtozcorporation]

this is like a more fleshed out version of genocide that relies more on character interactions than just "kill everything" which i personally find interesting

[@ZeltonXD]

Crazy how little we knew about snow grave back then.

[@NovaAeternus]

it was doubtful it was even real at first but damn was it real

[@lord_ozymandias]

i remember when a friend dm’d me FREAKING OUT and sent me a video link to a playthrough of it. fuckin wild

[@QuartzSphere]

Oh boy, we got ALL the fucked up tags up in here. We got: Mindbreak NTR [Not sure if there's a specific tag for gaslighting, but there is-] Moral Degeneration Holy shit toby, holy shit.

[@Zack_Zander]

Noelle is going through basically what Chara in Undertale is going through. The only difference is that Noelle haven’t gain that much LV yet... “yet”

[@pokkiheart]

I hate that I'm not the only one who thought of that

[@khoihoang6385]

@@Zack_Zander she just GETTING STRONGER

[@romanfrancis1232]

@@Zack_Zander Well Chara’s corruption is more of a byproduct, not exactly what we were intending/our main goal. This thing with Noelle was completely what we were trying to do.

[@knopfir]

NTR is specifically sexual, id give it [Guro] and [Corruption] tags. along with [Possession] because of how we control kris using the SOUL

[@emaaaaax]

"they're attracted to Ralsei, just like the internet" Shayy 2021

[@nd_4786]

real....

[@hornetsilksong]

This route is going to live in my head rent free until ch 3 comes out Damn it Toby Fox

[@AnArtistInAVoid]

This is a terrifying scenario. Surely there’s no way to do it even worse, right?

[@Xendrick]

Well we've got 5 more chapters to look forward to Can't wait to see more of the funny stuff, surprisingly well-taught lessons and commentary, and of course, the traumatic secret bosses and impending alternate routes that make us feel horrible lmao

[@Miropup]

Well, for one our next Guest Party Member will probably be *Toriel,* with all the emotional terror (and fire magic) that entails, and Snowgrave has a unique death animation for normal enemies you currently only can see if you abort this route at the last possible second, so there might be a chance we might get to use Noelle again at some point (or at the very least get access to more "Fatal" atacks in regular battles)...

[@AspieOld]

Well in chapter 7 there's an item you'd have to get by most likely abandoning the snowgrave route at berdly and beating all secret bosses

[@PnfrlEnm]

Ok so there's a genocide route even though your choices don’t matter… but you’re making Noelle do all the freezing and stuff, so technically you’re influencing Noelle’s choices? Maybe you are making your choices matter by influencing other people’s choices in the game? If that’s actually what’s happening then that's fucked up but also makes Toby the fuckin greatest genius of all time

[@joaozes]

good'ol times when we all though we needed to interact with that poster, when in reality the game doesnt even check if you are freezing the enemies

[@OnePieceIsReal99]

everyone in chat was saying "omg kris is so fucked up" and "kris what have you done" but this was NOT kris. this was YOU.

[@PlayfulPiano]

falco lombardi forgot to press shine. so now he will shine.

[@henryweinschel1357]

Kinda looks like he’s trapped in a shine

[@spaceace9103]

Kris has gone down the dark path of the influencer

[@magicmakerman]

Yoo i think thats like really cool shayy (also i recommend you pick up the [Hyperlink Blocked] while you're at it)

[@clappingtoday7167]

how do I get to the [Hyperlink Blocked]

[@mithaangelia61]

also you need to get the [Redacted] for full power

[@ngwoo]

YOUR choices don't matter. The choices that you force an innocent classmate to make do, however.

[@Cryotherapy-xd6qt]

I remember when everyone was EXCITED for this even 2 years later

[@gameboom7579]

fun fact: noelle, susie, and kris make up 3 students in the classroom, minus birdy, theres 5 students left in the classroom theres 5 chapters left *5 left* i think we all know where this *might* be going

[@Berryyyyyjam]

Kris is gonna wipe out all of his classmates so when them and Susie shows their project he is the only one who's gonna get grades lol

[@Nightcaat]

Probably my favorite Deltarune playthrough thus far

[@dustinvanish]

1:18:50 That music sync is *insane!*

[@K1ttyGam3r]

Ch1 alternate route: be a little mean to people Ch2 alternate route: emotionally manipulate your childhood friend into murdering countless innocents classic Toby

[@balls_gaming]

Ch3 alternate route: You know who *else* I mentally manipulated into committing genocide? MY MOM!!

[@a.h.j3379]

so close to completing it, the only barrier between me and the end is the goddamn pipis barrage attack