Unconditional Respect is NOT a Thing - Episode 80

Another week, another episode of the TLHV podcast! A special thank-you to our guest Dr. Westfall for helping shed more light and give new perspectives on a passage in scripture that we read so often! We hope you enjoyed today's episode, and while we know we got pretty technical and intellectual with some context and vocabulary, we believe it is very important that we look at these topics as clearly as possible to gain the best understanding.
Links to things mentioned:
The Blog: tolovehonorand...
Follow Sheila on Instagram: @sheilagregoire / sheilagregoire
Dr. Cynthia Long Westfall: www.amazon.ca/...
mcmasterdivini...
The Great Sex Rescue (pre-order!): www.amazon.com...
Psychology Today article: www.psychology...

[@starlingswallow]

This teaching kept me chained to my abusive ex for 14 years. He demanded respect at all times and threw scripture at me when I simply just wanted to have a loving conversation about things. It kept me submitting to his creative banking which kept us in dire straights all the time, it kept me from paying back taxes because he was "in control", it kept me doing things in the bedroom that were not ok and left me feeling used, empty, dirty, ashamed...it kept me in a scared and frozen state when he'd unleash his rage on me...even when he cussed God out and flicked Him off 😞😭 What a mess. The church needs to step up and change for the better of couples, both sides! Thank you for this video!!! You are one of a few who are heading up the change of tides! ♥️👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@JenniHayward]

For so long, I thought something was wrong with me as a woman because I couldn't separate love from respect - because of this Shaunti Feldhahn book and how it was presented on the Focus on the Family radio show. Thank you for this podcast. It is very validating and eye-opening re: the Ephesians passage!

[@nikkio.9990]

Same. I felt shame because yes I need love, but I definitely need respect too! And by the way...men need love as well...they are humans.

[@lisajohnson4744]

Not to mention that there is no love if there is no respect! If my husband does not (or will not) respect me, he does not love me!

[@naomilaliberte3512]

Wow Sheila ! Amen to that ! ☺

[@delindasmith5993]

This has been my thinking is regards to the Love and Respect book. If I am disrespected, then it communicates, that I am unloved. If I were in the survey I would pick being respected over being loved. Women want the same things as men. It has been over complicated.

[@starlingswallow]

Yep! It sure has!♥️♥️

[@Kaibigan39]

I am so glad you brought translation and the original languages into this!

[@sarahg1077]

With the REAL translation of Ephesians 5:33, Eggerichs’ book Love & Respect is meaningless. I am finally getting around to finishing up that dreadful book and I can’t tell you how many times it is hammered to the audience “women need love, men need respect.” It’s repeated so much. I bought a used copy so I could underline and write in the margin all my thoughts about how WRONG the info is. Unconditional love, yes. Unconditional respect, not-a-thing. Thanks for this podcast. -Healing (from your blog)

[@donnamartin9198]

Can you talk about forgiving and forgetting? That's all I hear from my spiritually abusive husband. He wants ZERO accountability. He devalues me, screams at me and then says I need to forgive and forget. Never considering the harm he has caused emotionally.

[@starlingswallow]

That's a great topic! I'm so sorry you are going through this. I went through it for 14 years and finally left. You deserve better! You are a child of God and it's a reasonable expectation to be shown love and respect by your spouse, to be able to feel what you feel, for however long you need to, and forgive when YOU are ready to. Forgiveness is a personal choice, and not forgetting allows you to protect yourself BY your remembering what was done. Your spouse screaming at you IS abuse.

[@CC-oq1ts]

People pushing this kind of respect are not having him take personal responsibility for his actions. No one is held accountable. It becomes co-dependency with sin.

[@starlingswallow]

YES!!! Exactly!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@uke7084]

Thank you for bringing a professional translator into the podcast. I get very cautious around people with only their basic knowledge of Strong's going and changing doctrine. This, however, seems very grounded in truth.

[@sarahb8147]

I have Paul and Gender and am about halfway through. It’s incredible. Everyone, buy the book! It set me free from so many stumbling block

[@Kimboscrub]

I can’t love the research bit! Becca’s analogy about food and water was perfect! I’m so happy y’all popped up on my feed. I definitely subscribed and can’t wait to properly binge watch all your videos.

[@cyndielake4092]

Being loved is nice but being respected is huge for me as a woman. Growing up in a home with a passive father and a narcissistic mother I was often told my feelings were too sensitive, I was never allowed to individuate from my mother even in my early adult years. All this was done while repeating ad nauseum how much she loved me and wanted what was best for me, while squeezing harder to maintain control. If you want to really show me you love me then respect me and my boundaries!!!

[@starlingswallow]

YES!!! Exactly!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@w3n33dam1racl3]

Yessss!!! 💯💯 I often scoffed at when I say I want respect. As if because I'm a woman I'm not supposed to want respect.

[@starlingswallow]

Exactly!!!!❤

[@megtoholke825]

Thank you so much for bringing the truth to light .

[@sammig.8286]

This was so good, especially the research part! I had my doubts the first time I read "Love and Respect." It seemed odd that he mentioned this question and how the men answered, but no mention of how the women answered. I didn't take the time to get the other book and do the research, but already, I was suspicious. So, actually hearing the research you did and finding out that they actually didn't ask women, and even the men thought the two options were practically the same confirmed what I already suspected.

[@tchoakim]

Just ran into you guys yesterday. So loved this episode. Love to get into the weeds on sociological surveys. You've got some stuff here I never heard of before... and that's a problem because I am supposed to teach on this in a month.

[@SheilaWrayGregoire]

Oh, awesome! Have you read The Great Sex Rescue yet? We've got all our data in there and it's fascinating!

[@janejiumaleh38]

Our primitive ancestors knew that the most dangerous situation for humans is to be alone. Survival depends on being part of a group. Better to be a respected member of a group than to be alone a vulnerable. I recall more recent research that studied orphanages and found that babies could die even if fed and cared for, when they were not loved. But this is not as obvious for most people as the belief that survival depends on being part of a group.

[@norabende7711]

This topic just made me subscribe! This goes as well for family members and parents!

[@starlingswallow]

Respect should be earned, not freely given no matter what your partner does. This is NOT healthy. It's giving your spouse or whoever is in your life, full power to do whatever they want and then they can wield their "give me unconditional respect" flag as a get-out-of-jail-free card. This is a slippery slope to abuse. 😢

[@CC-oq1ts]

Looks like some legalists stalking the thumbs down button on your videos.

[@marycorbett1744]

Have you listened to the podcast Roy's Report... the one titled Love and Respect and Abuse? Love and Respect, a best selling marriage book pushed by Focus on the Family and my church is not to be swallowed whole. There are major concerns with this book!!

[@DivineDissident]

this was great, I am stealing the "long live the king" example!! 😅

[@stregalilith]

The word respect comes from the same root as the word spectate simply “to look” or “to behold”, to allow them to be who they are without interference. Everyone deserves that kind of respect especially children ❤to simply allow them to be, to recognize them as another child of God. Not to venerate or put above oneself as some male translators have tried to twist it. ❤

[@TheLeeTafoya]

What do you think about the notion that the husband and wife talk about things but ultimately the man makes the final decision?

[@massieldelrosario3920]

Leslie Vernick has short videos answering this, she says that is not in the Bible at all. I was thinking about it recently as well, people say this same exact cliche statement a lot in my Christian circles, as if it were a Bible verse. Read Mark 10:35-45. Here is her video addressing your question, verbatim in the title of the video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hXbQd5Jsp8yjitU And also here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iJOWZ2SVebCkncU

[@starlingswallow]

I would submit to my husband if he felt led by God. I trust him and his relationship with Jesus and he is also loving and respectful of me. Thing is, he respects that we are a couple, a team, I do t believe he would make a decision if I didn't agree. We have the same heart that we both want to agree, be on the same page, to move forward on something, or not.

[@sarahg1077]

Sheila has said before that she has been married for 30+ years and they’ve NEVER needed her husband to be the “tie breaker.” When they have disagreements, they pray and come back and discuss things until they come to a mutual conclusion.

[@rejectionisprotection4448]

The focus on respect for men comes with the undertow of authority. Respect and authority goes together. It's very easy to abuse someone if you love them. In fact "loving" someone is often used as an excuse to do so. The act of loving someone and abusing them is conveniently separated. Hence women are exhorted to prefer "love". You cannot do that with respect. You cannot abuse someone and then say you respect them. It jars. However if respect is linked with authority, it provides a licence to abuse.

[@rossjpurdy]

Verse 33 is subjunctive but verse 22 is imperative: wives submit.

[@blackhanddpants]

No; the verb "submit" is not there. It's earlier in the verse, where the imperative actually says, "submit to one another." The imperative in the verse is "submit to one another." Marital submission, like Christian submission generally, is intended to be mutual, not one-sided.

[@MrsScott-bx8sb]

I still think it is funny (not funny haha, but....ironic?) that evangelicals are struggling and dealing with something that has long since been hashed out and established by Catholics. Take the translation of the verses and the love and respect dynamic....what the good Dr explains is just common knowlege/theology in greater Catholicism (there are pockets of fundies and weirdos).

[@nikkio.9990]

Welp, that's the Evangelical industrial complex for ya! It's a highly successful business model that encompasses media of all kinds-film, music, books, podcasts . It tells you what to believe instead of inviting an open dialogue and critical thinking....

[@christian1172-z9e]

Do you have any specific Catholic writer/thinkers in mind? I'd be interested in what they say.

[@gobigandgohomeschool4882]

❤

[@tiffanyd5137]

She shouldn’t have to nag. That’s where nagging typical happens - when the man repeatedly isn’t doing something he should. Why does she have to keep asking??

[@jayreal2417]

Feminism in gods word this is crazy how the Jes Abel spirit is manipulating the world ….

[@mb4635]

Do you think abusive behaviour from into their wives is acceptable? Do you think that is something that God will be pleased with? Because it seems to me that many churches teach women to end your abuse. Despite the fact that the word of God tells husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the church and wives to be submissive, many churches only focus on submission for women. Therefore a lot of men don’t know how to love their wives adequately and get into marriage very entitled

[@jayreal2417]

@@mb4635 again your consumed by the Jezabel spirit you need prayer…

[@mb4635]

@@jayreal2417 No I’m not. Contrary to popular belief, the Jezebel spirit is present in mentee. If you look at the traits of the Jezebel spirit and narcissism you’ll see it’s basically the same thing. But I did that a man can be entitled to do whatever he wants his wife even though it is abusive is only something a narcissistic person would believe. If you are a true follower of Christ, being abusive to your spouse is not something you would even imagine doing. What does it mean to love your spouse is Christ love the church? Is Jesus demanding and controlling with us know but obviously we submit to him.

[@uke7084]

Did you even watch it? This is rather the Berean spirit. If you back up your claim with actual quotes from the video and present the truth with scripture than I will hear your point. Just telling people a critiscim and that they need prayer is not saving anyone. If you love as a Christian you would speak truth. This is just judgement without the discernment to back it up. I am more inclined to listen to the 55 minutes of teaching from God's word than your one sentence of groundless critique.

[@starlingswallow]

It's not the Jezabelle spirit, it is _correctly_ reading the word. Do you believe men are more important to God than women are? Wouldn't that be the flip side of feminism? All they are saying is both men and women deserve respect and love. Why in the world is that seen as so wrong? Is it just because some have given in to what we all have been falsely taught and one just can't let go of it?