Shelby Mustang GT350 vs Sunbeam Tiger: Behind the Wheel

[@stevenwalk8564]

That Shelby is beautiful but if I had to choose, I'd go with the Tiger all day.

[@Mike-yg8ig]

Ageed, and you rarely se them these days. There was a guy on my street back in Jersey who had one. He'd come out of his garage between 2 apartment buildings, the sound of the exhaust was beautiful. He'd wait at the bottom of a long hill for the light at the top to turn green. He'd take off like a bat out of hell and hit the light just as it was turning amber. 57 years ago, I remember it like it was yesterday. The guy's name was "Rip."

[@hikedayley9309]

Back in 1971 I bought a Sunbeam Tiger that sat in the back of a car lot for $600.00. They people at the Dodge dealership where I found it had no idea what it was. It had the 289ci V8. The car needed an exhaust and a convertible top replaced. Today it goes for $100,000.00

[@sej8806]

Sunbeam Tiger, every time!

[@lelandlewis7207]

I love the Shelby and have owned a nice modified '67 Mustang which started my love for them. I worked at an engine shop where were built a highly modified 289 in a Tiger. That car made me a life-long Tiger fan. I even thought of getting an Alpine and modding it. It would be a hard choice, but the Tiger is one of my bucket list cars. I have owned a few British cars and love a nice open-top roadster. I think that would be my choice.

[@detlefbrands1283]

If it rains on A tiger. How long does it take to get the top up. So your girl doesn't get wet

[@bobkohl6779]

Change the plugs on a Tiger with a 289, you'll buy a 350

[@lelandlewis7207]

@@bobkohl6779 Lots of vehicles have hard to change plugs, including some 350s. Chevy isn't the answer to everything. Tigers have a hole in the driver's foorwell to get at the back plug.

[@carsonw8223]

Fun comparison. I'm team Tiger, especially because it has a removable hard top option to give you that choice, unlike the stang. The way it feels to drive the tiger is the reason to buy a classic car: more analog, more tactile, more visceral, more engaging. It's a driver's car. That's what you can't get out of modern cars, and that's what you should look for in a classic sports car, in my humble and accurate opinion.

[@johnmoncrieff3034]

The Alpine that the Tiger is based on was designed for the narrow twisty roads of the English countryside and touring on the Continent of Europe! Its handling and balance were ideal for that purpose. Sticking the heavy V8 and gearbox into it changed these characteristics into a front-heavy point and squirt car that was less than happy on the roads of the UK!

[@steverives3060]

"It is what it is" The most nondescript annoying phrase out there, right beside "At the end of the day"

[@briansd2772]

Be that as it may.

[@stewartw.9151]

I had a 1967 Tiger Mk1 with the 260 motor. There was nothing particularly sensitive or tricky about the Tiger's handling. It had a live rear axle, so that was not state-of-the-art even back then, but it could happily move at speed and with safety along British twisty roads if the driver was competent. In the hands of an incompetent it could be a lethal handful, as will any real performance sports car - not a boulevard cruiser which many Yank "sports" cars really were at that time!

[@williamsample2631]

That's a fair assessment from what I've read and seen about the Tiger.

[@SimonWallwork]

I've got a Tiger. Mustangs are for ladies.

[@chuckthebull]

my aunt owned one in the 60s.. ha... I may only have a sunbeam with a tricked out drive train but I'm still happy I sold the mustang.

[@jackhammer7824]

I owned both A TIGER, and 69 fastback Mustang, second owner. The tiger was A pure ruff and ready ride that 289 new Really boogies . But your getting beat up In that roadster. Mustang much more laid back car. Clean 302 boogy machine.

[@brienfoaboutanything9037]

Interesting about Sunbeam Motor Car Company: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pYrYaWqEmNZ2rsU

[@Triumphs1962]

I like having something thats unique. That would be a Tiger, not a Mustang. Even if it is a Shelby.

[@erroneouscode]

Such a big fella driving that Tiger was just soooo wrong! Upset the balance for sure.

[@richardmccaughey5928]

Would definitely hinder the "Tiger experience"!

[@matthewwhite7663]

No AC Ace no cobra! Sunbeam was a British car company they wanted some simple simple muscle, Shelby help them out.The rest is history

[@hansgruber1946]

I remember talking to a British boss of mine back in the 90's and he didn't know what a Sunbeam car was! I had to explain it to him. I've loved Sunbeam Tigers for some time now and would love to have one. How about a '67 Type II with the 289? Uh, yes. I'm disappointed the engines aren't mentioned with the horsepower in this.

[@edb3877]

The Tiger is not a car that works well for people who are over-weight. It's a small car and slender people who like fast sports cars tend to love it. I know I did. I had a '67 Sunbeam Tiger back in the day. Yeah, I was over 6'2" tall but also only weighed 170 lbs. and could drive it just fine. Loved the 271 HP 289 engine + 4-spd. manual trans. It was a movin' machine! Never owned a Mustang, although I came close to that with a 1970 Boss 302 machine in electric blue, black interior, and 4-spd. manual trans. That too was a movin' machine but it was a few hundred $ out of my reach, so it didn't happen.

[@TJ-kw1nt]

I’ll take whichever one you don’t want.

[@chuckthebull]

I own a 73 pontiac lemans and a 62 sunbeam alpine with a modified drive train . I love them both but the American cars are much more technology refined and comfortable.. but the sunbeam is more fun to me and it feels a lot more loose, but attached to the road. And I like the fact no one knows the sunbeam, you see a mustang and it's shrug, you see a sunbeam and it's more wow that's cool..so yeah to each their own and all but I like being out of my comfort zone. The mustang is oh so typical.

[@bobkohl6779]

Great review, I've owned a Tiger II and driven earlier 350s. Take the 67 350

[@stachebrothersgarage1632]

Cool video. Two different cars and both have their place in history.

[@leemorris2127]

I'm an ex Tiger owner. Sold it too soon. Loved it and would get another in better shape if I could afford it. One thing not mentioned in this video - never late brake with one of these things. Set up your corners long before you get there. The brakes were never up to the power.

[@daijones101]

Maxwell Smart drove a Tiger 🐯 enough said.

[@dougl6219]

After listening to the comments It's clear that the opinions were pretty strongly influenced by the modifications that were made to this particular Tiger. I wonder it anything would have changed if the cars were stock.

[@chrisfranklin2104]

A "BIG" road test indeed !! now I realise why my 351Ranchero has so much inside space 😄

[@benabney3375]

Wow, those are big dudes. How much did that affect their preferences? But I am a fit old guy who has to special order his 30 inch waist pants because the stores don”t carry them. Don’t have any Mustangs in my herd these days but do have a Tiger I love, and it is so much roomier than my Lotus Elise.🤗

[@sjd7188]

Youre not drinking enough beer ...

[@benabney3375]

@@sjd7188 True, but only because it aggravates my gout.

[@johnnymula2305]

Both are beautiful! I like the oddball cars. Which is why i have a 67 Cougar 390GT.

[@DanODNC1]

Do Shelby's have the same CRAP worm and roller steering my 67 Mustang had?

[@bhaggen]

Same box, some of the linkage was modified to make the steering quicker

[@pashakdescilly7517]

One thing they didn't mention in the video was why the Sunbeam Tiger stopped production. Sunbeam was part of the Rootes Group, which made cars with the Hillman, Humber, Singer and Sunbeam names. When Rootes got bought by Chrysler (full control in 1967), it didn't make sense to be making a halo car largely for the US market with a Ford engine and drive train. They could have put a Chrysler engine in it, of course....

[@ronloomis8245]

If your car is easy to drive and does not keep you on your toes then just go get groceries. Yes I have a Tigre.

[@milwaukeegregg]

Had a 69Z with 4.88's headers traction bars and a holly double pumper. The car would ghost anything in the first 2 gears.... I raced a Tiger one day in downtown Milwaukee on Wisconsin Ave going west at the 35th st lite.. Never saw one in my life..Had no idea what it was. Lite went green he pulled me a car length pulled 2nd he jumped another car length. Stayed that way till the end of the viaduct bridge. Then the cops showed up and we both went our separate ways.... To be fair I did have 2 other peeps in the car ,but still,,,I know what one is now................

[@timjordan41]

There is probably $50K - $75K difference between these two cars. For the money. Go Tiger

[@jettrink7510]

Driving the powerful Shelby Mustang is an unforgettable experience.

[@ImTHATguy...]

I have a '65 Sunbeam and my buddy has two '66 Shelby GT350H's. I'd love to own a Shelby Mustang (or my dream car the Cobra) but I wouldn't be able to trade one for the other. This guy has it right; just own both! You may know my buddy if you're familiar with SAAC as he's one of the original members of the club. His name is Mike Wright from MT now in ID.

[@seadog686]

Fundamental problem: The Brits never built sports cars (in the 60's) for "two-stoolers".

[@philreynolds6018]

Neither can go around a corner and both cars are great !

[@SimonWallwork]

So true. Never fuck with the Tiger when it's wet.....

[@StevenVanLoven]

I have a 67 Alpine & a 68 fastback in my garage.... but love them both.

[@williamsample2631]

Go ahead rub it in dammit!

[@paulciprus9582]

Shelby ..really cool…Tiger…cooler..who doesn’t want a small roadster with a V8…..I have. 2003 SVT Cobra…so I know Ford and their special programs…..

[@sprman007]

The Tiger was not designed by Shelby. Shelby was asked by Sunbeam and Ian Garrard to put a 260 V8 into a Sunbeam Alpine body, which is what he did. Ken Miles was asked to do the same thing, so did Ken Miles design the Tiger?

[@caldon0370]

Nicely corrected, superman. Tigers United XXVII was held at Lake Tahoe June 19 - 21, 2003. Carroll Shelby, among others attended all three days as did I. Shelby's wife's Tiger was just five VIN numbers away from my Tiger's VIN. At the dinner, Shelby declared that he got $1.00 for each Tiger sold. Ken Miles' Tiger was not refined enough and would never have made it to production. Shelby gives most all the Tiger development credit to George Boskoff. George was in charge of the Tiger project in a corner of the Shelby shop and Shelby would occasionally drop by or stick his head through the door just to observe. That Shelby shop was the shop Shelby rented from Lance Reventlo, who among other things, built the Scarab. George was in attendance as was Norm Miller, author the Tiger enthusiast's "Bible", The Book of Norman. I have a pristine copy of that book that Shelby, Boskoff and Norm all signed with individual personal notes. Try to find another one of those books with those three autographs! And by the way, I have owned two Tigers. The first one was a 1967 with the Chrysler pentastar and my second one was a 1965 with a short shifter and was verified by Norm Miller as being one of the Hollywood Sportscars Tigers prior to my ownership.

[@stevemurphy2641]

@@caldon0370 What did you think about the 67 Pentastar? saw one for sale but the consignor pulled it. I presume not enough interest in paying $89k for a car with 77k miles.

[@jamesellsworth9673]

I LIKE the tailored look of the Tiger. Without a top, of course, it has more body flex. I would restomod one to improve the suspension and tires and body stiffness. Maybe then the big engine would make more sense.

[@BROCKWOOD64]

College, 1981. Saw an Alpine on a car lot. Had to test drive it (was in the market for my 1st car). Some jerk pulled out. Downshifted & punched it to avoid collision. Felt like I was up on only the 2 left tires. Returned the car. I was shaken. I bought a Cougar XR7 instead.

[@NoPrivateProperty]

old cars are not designed for 300+ pound driver

[@scottbatey3130]

These guys are always trying to raise the value of the car They own, Lose some weight and that tiger will handle the way it's supposed to.. Sorry dude! It won't work with a 325 lbs driver

[@jeffbarnes291]

AMEN!!!!

[@Mike-yg8ig]

Tiger all day. 1st incarnation was an Alpine with a 260 V-8 that Shelby and a friend Frankensteined together for the Rootes Group. That was the prototype.

[@steves4639]

my favorite Shelby. good distinction 'not a muscle car, a performance car'. Last real Shelby Mustang. have always like the Tiger too, but give me the Shelby.

[@colinblick4903]

Love em both and have drove the sunbeam…….. you have to be awake drivin the sunbeam…. Or it’ll slap your arse….. I like that…. Driver input essential 😎I’m Brit so biased!😋….. but if I was doing long distance….. the mustang would be more relaxing!

[@DrVaticinator]

My first car was an Alpine give me the Tiger all day.

[@dinger40]

Chrysler bought the Rootes Group ( Sunbeam, Singer, Hillman and Humber) and didn't like a ford motor in their cars. A Chrysler V8 motor didn't fit so they axed the Tiger

[@dentray]

I cant believe they cost the same off the shelf!

[@8000RPM.]

A Sunbeam Tiger without a roll-bar and driving a GT350 without wearing the shoulder harness,....not me!

[@barryphillips7327]

An ideal garage would have both, NO Need for more power in either! The 427 Cobra have a reputation in the 60s a Father bought a 427 Cobra for his 18yr old son, within days he was DEAD wrapped it around a tree!!!!!!!!! ☹

[@pd2865]

Interesting video. I'm not sure of what these drivers are trying to describe based on their adjectives ie like "high strung", "very nervous" and "relaxed". And describing comfortable to drive, well body mass maybe you don't fit the car, therefore feels uncomfortable. Bigger motor , slightly smaller motor, does not mean anything to me. I know the Tiger is either a 260 or 289, possibly 302. Then what is the 67 Shelby Mustang? a big block? I really can't follow your review. Does the Sunbeam push, over steer, bump steer, what are you talking about? Again, as I listen, the Tiger wants to rev, welcome to 289s, fast high riving engines. The mustang feels like it has long legs. So is it a big block which is not throttle responding well, I'm confused. The Tiger had a sense of urgency. What does that mean, you really are loosing me on this video. The blender comment negates that evaluator. Between 1964-1967 7,083 Tigers were built. Most people would not know what they were. Around 67,000 Alpines. So most people would not know what they were. Until I started building custom cars, mostly AC Cobras, I had only seen one Tiger and one AC Cobra and one AC Bristol in the Atlanta area. So back in the 1990s our company was the sanctioning body, Cobra Sports Racing Association, reviving racing AC Cobras again in the 1990s. Our company AC Cobra dominated Group 1 of the historic racing series and holds the fastest track record at Road Atlanta for a AC Cobra. Road Atlanta was our sponsor, and provided us with a driver and free track time, which I got to drive sometimes there. And when we set up the car, I never had Brain, a former Lemans driver who drove our car use descriptions like yours. I was the company innovator and problem solver. I built the AC Cobra prototype for Excalibur Motors. And I came up with some interesting OEM modifications on my 1965 Mustang front suspension. So I'm a little disappointed with the video. Nice try.

[@kevinbrucestevens7747]

Might have something to do with physical body size and chassis.

[@4evaavfc]

I wonder how the Mk 2 Tiger would go, the one Carrol Shelby was brought in to improve.

[@brucebeauvais1324]

Tim's Tiger is not a stock Mk1A. He did a lot of upgrades in the build. I think you can look the series up in the Classic Motorsports website.

[@markt-tb8496]

Nice job here by the C.M. guys... I remember reading this article (love the magazine), but had not seen the video until now. Thanks for putting this together. I'm not sure that I could agree with the statement that "these cars are about the same money"?

[@bobkohl6779]

I've owned a Tiger II, give me the 67 350.

[@creekjonsun]

you called the tiger a roadster. Actually it is a Cabriolet (roll up widows in the doors) A roadster uses side curtains ( like the Cobra's use) :) hope this helps . I owned an Alpine , I could never afford a tiger .

[@alastairwatson3201]

How about a Fiat X1/9 / Porsche 914 comparison? That’d be a fair thing; plenty of similarities there.

[@ClassicMotorsports]

We have that comparison on the list!

[@jackhammer7824]

The TIGER I bought from my sister had a Twisted frame, which I didn't know until I sold it 6 years later. Had 289 rebuild in Boulder by some college boys . They had Hell getting it back together and electric Correct. British you know. American engine, too much engine for frame.

[@noblesseoblige2365]

So you're not gonna mention that the mustang is literally 4-5 times the price 🤔? So you could own, a genuine tiger "which is rarer", a replica cobra and an absolutely stunning classic mustang "or muscle car" for the same money 💰 🤑 💸 that feels pretty relevant

[@lesliehiles3122]

I drove the tiger FUN nerves

[@walterkilchherr8996]

Come on! Not really apples and apples there. Both are great though.

[@albundy8052]

Mustang all the way baby. I would pull the original 302 out and save it, replace it with a 351. New aluminum heads, roller cam, making 500 hp. 😷🤧☺

[@greggregory4689]

Stick to selling Shoe's Al

[@michaelcudby787]

That mustang didnt have a 302. It had the HP 289, hence GT 350

[@andrewmarshall360]

My father got kinda upset with me when I “ slightly “ clipped a palm tree with his when I was 15 . I had to pay for the repairs . Sorry Dad , hopefully you aren’t mad with me

[@sqr2024]

In a time when men were men and cars were cars.

[@SimonWallwork]

So true.

[@kwnsdn]

You are comparing apples and oranges. The Mustang had a roll bar to stiffen the frame, the Tiger is a true drivers car, you need to know how to handle it.

[@jefferyschirm4103]

Nat. a 259 plus guy needs a bigger car !!

[@wallacebentley6655]

Shelby's are common. Tigers are rare. Esp one modified with a Ford 289 HiPo. Just too much engine for the car.

[@jonfeigion4207]

No seat belt, no roll bar! not for me...

[@gregfisher2015]

I have a 66 Tiger and a 66 GT-350 the Tiger will spank it

[@garykarstetter166]

You guys are not from the 60s

[@fanghicheck]

go mustang ?

[@robertkirk4387]

Shelby did not design the Tiger he just dropped a ford lump in it, it was designed in England as the sunbeam alpine. Shelby taking credit for something he didn't do, again, just like the GT 40 which was a MK6 Lola

[@suzyjohnson4667]

Howdy Robert, The Ford GT40 is not a Lola. It actually all started in Dearborn with Mustang 1 mid engine concept. In the beginning it was a Anglo-American collaboration with Eric Broadley as consultant, but most of the elbow grease was done in Dearborn by Ford Engineers and the (non-union) Kar Kraft where Ford engineers would moonlight work. Building the GT40's in the UK by FAV, (Ford Advanced Vehicles) made the most sense in those days. Latter the Mark 4 was 100% US built. I'm a multiple Ford GT owner and know my stuff. GT40 is a Ford design/product through and through and the only American car to ever win Lemans overall 4 times.

[@chuckthebull]

I remember hearing something about the t bird designer had a hand in the sunbeam?

[@ImTHATguy...]

@@chuckthebull You are correct. He did with the styling a bit. This can be seen more on the earlier Alpines with the larger fins.

[@chuckthebull]

@@ImTHATguy... I have the 62 with the bigger fins.. I fell in love with these as a kid and finely got my dream one. I rebuilt the motor and have a 5 speed trans in it now with a taller rear.....it used to be my daily driver. now it's more for fun.

[@robertkirk4387]

@@chuckthebull The Alpine was derived from the Sunbeam-Talbot 90 Saloon, and has become colloquially known as the "Talbot" Alpine. It was a two-seater sports roadster initially developed for a one-off rally car by Bournemouth Sunbeam-Talbot dealer George Hartnell. It had its beginnings as a 1952 Sunbeam-Talbot drophead coupé. Announced in March 1953 it received its name following Sunbeam-Talbot saloons successes in the Alpine Rally during the early 1950s. On its first competitive outing, the July 1953 Coupe …

[@cmscms123456]

Rustang.. weak front suspension sheetmetal shock/spring towers... its a fine secretary's car. not really a muscle car.

[@darbyheavey406]

Go with the roadster….

[@stub454]

Not using seat belts? A fine message you're sending there. Oh, and the Tiger door panels are wrong.

[@timsuddard6502]

We are using seat belts (lap belts). And the Tiger's door panels are correct. Thanks for your comments.

[@ImTHATguy...]

Alpine GT models had some pleating in the door panels. Every other Alpine and Tiger only had plain flat door panels.

[@shanechostetler9997]

I love my BMW Z3 with its straight 6 3.0 liter engine, it would out perform the Tiger on a twisty road, but on a long straighter road, the tiger would take it I think. But I did get 120 out of the bummer with more throttle to go. The Shelby is just too cool. Love both of those cars. I had a 65 Alpine that I wish I still had.

[@johnmoncrieff3034]

The Sunbeam was built by the Rootes Group in England. It started as the Alpine with a 1600cc engine which was too small for the American market so they asked Shelby to convert it to a small block V8 (Ford 289ci 4.2Ltr.) It was a very tight fit! It had the capacity increased to 307ci(4.7Ltr) in the Mk2 version. Then Rootes were bought over by Chrysler and they could not allow ford to power one of their acquired models and their small block V8 would not fit without major alterations to the body and chassis that could not be justified from a cost/return point so the car was cancelled! We are talking about the mid-1960s when the UK car industry was in a war with the unions! I know as I was involved !!

[@johnmorgan7262]

first?

[@roo1314]

Tiger. Alpine. Healey 3000. MGA. Early MGB. TR3. Those are sports cars. The Mustang isn't.

[@777dolf1]

Those who can do...drive. Those who can't...write. This was a REALLY lame comparison.

[@customvansixtyfive8337]

tiger

[@joshuam4614]

The Tiger isn't a roadster. It's a convertible. Roadsters don't have roll up windows. I'm surprised that directors at Classic Motorsports don't know this.

[@timsuddard6502]

I'll stand by Wikipedia's definition: roadster (also spider, spyder) is an open two-seat car with emphasis on sporting appearance or character. Initially an American term for a two-seat car with no weather protection, usage has spread internationally and has evolved to include two-seat convertibles.

[@darrenfreese7370]

Two beautiful cars and you two want to complain about the definition of roadster or if they are wearing seat belts? Stick to watching powder puff girl cartoons and I think you will be better entertained.

[@timsuddard6502]

@@darrenfreese7370 Thank you!

[@benabney3375]

You are correct. I have owned a Porsche Speedster and a 356B Cabriolet, the former a roadster, and the latter a convertible. But, we now live in a world where people call my early 911 coupe a sports car. It’s not, but I have given up arguing the point.

[@TheSinkingGarage]

Time makes fools of us all :) Time for a new entry I say. roadster (n.) "open two-seat automobile," 1908; earlier a light, horse-drawn carriage (1892); a horse for riding (1818); "a ship lying near the shore" (1744), from road(n.) + -ster.

[@windronner1]

Ford gave both Carrol Shelby and Ken mikes Sunbeams to modify. Ken miles was actually completed first and was the much better car. At same time, the AC cobra was in development. And a lot of what was learned in the Sunbeam segued in AC! And if you want a hardtop. Sunbeam had removable hardtop options. I love both cars. And all 289&302 cars. But sunbeam is special car in Ford and v8 mod history.

[@stewartw.9151]

If that Tiger is a 1965 as stated here, then it has a 260 V8 unless someone has swapped it out. I had a 1967 Tiger and that was the last year of the 260, replaced by the more powerful 289. But even the 260 gave around 140 mph top speed.

[@ursus9104]

Proper chassis is only for cowards…..

[@DavidBainGaming]

Americans choose American car instead of British car. Shock horror. Americans need to look beyond big lazy cars that are a lounge on wheels.