Scythe | Shelfside Review

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Shelfside

Shelfside

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 237
@revbrentcolby
@revbrentcolby 2 жыл бұрын
I saw the title and thought, “Scythe? Didn’t that come out years ago?” Then I saw the epic intro and realized that it was worth the wait. I can’t wait for your Azul review in 2024.
@shortydancer
@shortydancer 2 жыл бұрын
I prefer to watch review of these “older” games than the new hotness. I think games reviews benefit from a fall of the hype and good amount of playing the game.
@abruwer08
@abruwer08 2 жыл бұрын
This is a pretty fair take on Scythe. I particularly appreciated Daniel talking through his experience with learning the game. Having someone talking through the learning curve is tremendously helpful for someone who has to usually teach board games. This is one weird game. Also here's hoping you guys will one day do the Civilization The Board Game review.
@vitorhauser8476
@vitorhauser8476 Жыл бұрын
They did.
@inttruders
@inttruders 2 жыл бұрын
I think Scythe should have been marketed as a Cold War themed Euro. The threat of fighting is more important in this game than actually fighting. So many people expect it to be an area control fight to the death. I have a whole shelf full of area control fighting games so when I want to scratch that itch I play one of those. This game is for my more Euro inclined friends who come to game night. It is a Euro that has a theme I enjoy more than the the usual Euro themes of farming or spice trading. Scythe is not my favorite game but I enjoy it for what it is instead of hating it for what it isn't.
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
thanks for sharing this! I had the benefit of Daniel constantly warning me about what the game 'actually was' before I played, so I went in with that euro expectation, and wasn't let down nearly as hard as he was at first. Would definitely be ok with playing this again with more my more euro-inclined friends! -Ashton
@oz1447
@oz1447 2 жыл бұрын
Home boy is getting STRONGER with the editing.
@dannyp4174
@dannyp4174 2 жыл бұрын
We thought in line with your thoughts, until we acquired the Rise of Fenris expansion. We played thru the campaign without opening any boxes early(which you could do without completing the campaign). Loved the story and surprises of the campaign. But there are so many modules added with the expansion, it would deserve a different perspective on some of the limitations you have mentioned that make the game so tight. But playing thru the campaign to be surprised by what's in store, was satisfying to say the least, epic for us.
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
I've been reading these comments and seeing all the hype for the expansions haha. We plan on getting around to them eventually! Though when all the expansions are involved, it almost doesn't even look like Scythe anymore! -Daniel
@dannyp4174
@dannyp4174 2 жыл бұрын
@@Shelfside during the campaign we chose not to use the airships. We paid closer attention to the new modules, we also played 2 player so we could get thru the story quicker. If you get Fenris I still suggest playing the campaign for the story.
@wahick
@wahick 2 жыл бұрын
Great review! Please do Spirit Island next!
@revbrentcolby
@revbrentcolby 2 жыл бұрын
Mech Farming Simulator! Lol…
@matteobabbeostupideo
@matteobabbeostupideo 2 жыл бұрын
You nailed the review man. I love this game, but it desperately needs an 'essential' version, which may include the modular board, a couple of updates from the expansions and more balanced factions.
@federicodecesco1926
@federicodecesco1926 2 жыл бұрын
I think one of the best things about your reviews is that you divide the pros and cons so sharply. The game always looks splendid in the first part but then the cons are grafted on the positive parts creating a very realistic and balanced picture. For scyhte I agree perfectly but perhaps this is the review that most of all deserves a second part with the expansions to see if they have managed to smooth out the balance and stiffness problems. For a true 4x I highly recommend you to try Clash Of Cultures - Monumental Edition which for me is an improved (streamlined and aesthetically more beautiful and ergonomic) version of the Civilization you like so much. Great job!
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
Expansions are always a weird thing to cover since they're separate modules to throw into a game, especially Scythe's, which, when using all of them transforms the game into something far different than base Scythe lol -Daniel
@arthursimsa9005
@arthursimsa9005 2 жыл бұрын
The answer to the question « did they manage to fix the imbalance » is a resounding no. First expansion adds even more balance v’by adding two very underpowered factions and two very overpowered. Second expansion adds variety but doesn’t change the game fundamentally enough to really make it more balanced or swingier. Third expansion I haven’t played, but highly doubt it fixes anything. If there is something that can really change Scuthe, it’s the modular board. It would actually be the best way to change the faction/player mat meta. But does it « fix » the game? Not sure.
@shortydancer
@shortydancer 2 жыл бұрын
Whoa an hour long review on scythe?! I’m looking forward to watching this whole thing.
@CitizenRare
@CitizenRare 2 жыл бұрын
Another excellent video. You guys are probably the best board game reviewers out there due to the sheer depth of your reviews. I’ve owned Scythe for about a year, and it’s one of my all time favorites, but part of that is probably due to the fact that I’ve never played with anyone who has mastered the game and learned every best possible opening strategy or even done so myself. Every playthrough has just been a big casual sandbox experience for me and whatever group, and that’s when this game is absolutely at its best. But I appreciate that you guys look at everything and rigorously test the game at every level, and I’ve heard lots of issues at the competitive high-level end. Really curious as to how you guys would rank the game with Fenris modules and/or the modular board - it looked like you had footage of it in the video, and I’ve never tried it myself, so curious if those additional components and randomizations would help squelch some balance issues. I imagine this problem is obviously not unique to just Scythe, games like Chess have always had this problem where you match up a novice or even an experienced player against a Grandmaster and the Grandmaster will win 100/100 times. Chess demands its players be of equal skill to have anything resembling an interesting experience, so it’s a shame that Scythe balance suffers from some of those same weaknesses. But that’s while I’ve always tried to play most board games like how Daniel described, just make my own strategies and test them out, maybe learn a little each time and try something new, rather than memorizing precisely crafted openings or patterns developed by others, etc. So I’ll leave high level Scythe to the pros and try to keep the game casual for as long as I can lol. Speaking of Daniel, his bit in this video was hysterical - “…and I was thinking this game is gonna be sick as fuck!” 😂😂
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, it's super unfortunate I was never able to have sessions of scythe where everyone was all at a similar skill level, but even then my personal score probably wouldn't get that much higher because of the tiny amounts of randomness and player interaction -Daniel
@arthursimsa9005
@arthursimsa9005 2 жыл бұрын
I would strongly contend the idea that Scythe is best when played as a sandbox. The sandbox is way too small! Scythe is just way too imbalanced and rigid for this situation to be really enjoyable, I completely agree with the reviewers on that. Crimea and Russia, and/or some combinations of mat and faction would win a completely disproportionate amount of time, and the game would be too long. I’ve had fun with other « noobs » when I first played the game. But now that I’ve played more board games, I know that if I want a 4x, a sandbox or a game with player expression or improvisation, There are games considerably more fun and/or more fair. If you enjoy the Euro aspect of Scythe, perhaps you will enjoy Terra Mystica or Uwe Rosenberg’s games more. If you enjoy its superficial 4x inspired aspect, I’m sure there are better options as well. And if I want to play Scythe, it is against competitive opponents who know how to do this weird, restrictive, precise thing that is Scythe. And finish in 18 turns at latest;)
@arthursimsa9005
@arthursimsa9005 2 жыл бұрын
@@Shelfside Daniel, haven’t you played online? I thought you had because you mentioned inspiration from Fomof and Joydivision. I am asking because you say that it is unfortunate your player group level was always unequal. Perhaps playing online would reconcile you with the game, as rigid as it is? You’re certainly right that it’s not about player expression at all!
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
@@arthursimsa9005 I haven't, I watched FOMOF and Joydivision in my quest to git gud and understand Scythe better lol, and I don't really have any interest going digital atm -Daniel
@cozmicshroomzpro1
@cozmicshroomzpro1 2 жыл бұрын
To echo many sentiments I've seen, this is a super well produced videos folks, great job. I agree with you folks here, Scythe isn't for everyone and it definitely tries to pretend its trying to hang with the other big 4x games(to echo another sentiment, i think you folks should try Eclipse 2nd edition) while havin balance issues and being more euro-y than I think it could have been. That said, I really like the game, i haven't played it enough to become seasoned with it but know the rules very well so it makes introducing to folks easier as I'm not as sure of my strategies and i dont dumpster people but i find it easy enough once you get going to suck some folks in who like building a civ and having that near cold war tension of war adds to the politics for my tables(tho not as much as I'd love tbh). Really wish the expansions fixed this but they don't for me but I still enjoy the game anyway. Great video again folks.
@AboveAverageAdam
@AboveAverageAdam 2 жыл бұрын
Great review guys. I also own Scythe and all it's expansion content and lemme tell you, it makes a TON of difference. The first expansion, Invaders From Afar, adds two more factions that are a ton of fun with traps and banners that get placed on the map. The second expansion, The Wind Gambit, adds a large Airship for all Factions which have varying passive and aggressive attributes which are randomly chosen and apply to all player's airships at the beginning of the game, this expansion also adds the Resolution tiles module which consists of 8 tiles with 8 different end game conditions instead of the normal way the games usually end, this is a godsend! The 3rd Expansion, Rise of Fenris, is where things get really nuts. It adds an 8 game campaign, which over the course of which you will be unlocking 11 brand new modules for Scythe (two of which are two brand new factions) these new modules can change the way the game is played in vastly different ways (you can unlock them via or the campaign or do what I did and just open all the modules right away and play with whichever ones you want). There is also the Scythe Encounter pack which has all the promo encounter cards to shuffle into the encounter deck to give it more flavor and the Modular Board expansion that adds a board with tiles and starting areas that can be rearranged so there are no predetermined starting areas. Honestly, You guys should get all 3 expansions and try out the various modules to see how vastly different the game can become. I'd love to see a video a year from now where you guys give it a 2nd look after trying all the modules. Great review again guys :D (Btw, Rodney on Watch-It-Played has a video for each of the expansions where he shows what is in them, you should give it a watch)
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
I don't doubt we'll get around to playing them eventually, given that one of our friends is a huge Scythe fan with all the deluxe components and most expansions lol -Daniel
@arthursimsa9005
@arthursimsa9005 2 жыл бұрын
None of that fixes any of the flaws of the game - what Shelfreview and I have trouble with, st least - which is the deterministic, rigid way to build your engine and the imbalance between player mat and faction combinations. If anything the first expand makes the game even more imbalanced, by adding overpowered player mats and underpowered factions. Adding even more variability should never have been the focus of the expansions.
@jimphilidor9031
@jimphilidor9031 2 жыл бұрын
I think the solo mode is excellent once you learn it. The automa is really aggressive, so you can't play it like solitaire for the whole game. The modular board and the extra modules do make it more interesting in the long run. But after trying ECLIPSE, I think that's a better game. It's a true 4X and I also think it's better as a resource management euro game. It feels streamlined and the engine building feels smoother. You get to modify your own space ships and then take to battle, which is so cool.
@arthursimsa9005
@arthursimsa9005 2 жыл бұрын
That’s a comparison I’ve often heard, yes!
@AAhmou
@AAhmou 8 ай бұрын
For the automa to work the designers had to break many fundamental rules to the point it takes me out of the game, it is a good efficiency puzzle tho.
@hugostickney8773
@hugostickney8773 2 жыл бұрын
Chess review when?
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
oh man, will be fun -Ashton
@bushibayushi
@bushibayushi 2 жыл бұрын
100% agreed. Plus, Brazil has killed Scythe for me.
@kombainasable
@kombainasable 2 жыл бұрын
finally a honest scythe review for a change. I really wanted to love it and bought expansions just for the hope they would fix the game (and their machancis would), but in the end balance is all over the place. this is the kind of PvP game where others just cannot do anything against runaway leader, since they score from euro mechanics, and it takes resources and sacrificing your own euro engine to just try to make a dent in the leader. to me Dwelling of Eldervale is the euro-area control which actually got in reverse, and actually right, what makes both genres appealing when mashed together. game is otherwise really good, but massively overhyped for how actually niche it is. not to mention being a 4X is an outright lie
@arthursimsa9005
@arthursimsa9005 2 жыл бұрын
Would you say that Rise of Ferris contributes to balancing the game ?. I am asking this because it’s a common answer from Scythe’s fervent « fans »: « buy the expansions »! I know for a fact that Invaders from Afar actually brings even more imbalanced, and that theWind Gambit doesn’t really change anything.
@kombainasable
@kombainasable 2 жыл бұрын
​@@arthursimsa9005 does it contribute? yes. it allows to pick what stars are awarded for, so if you want more PvP, you can give more for PvP, less if you want less. what I dislike is that combat, even winning one is a cost to your economic engine. if you fight, you will fall behind in effectiveness. the only reason to fight is because economics do not score many points, and winning a fight or two will. so with fenris you can shift that balance to where you like more. does not make interactions with others any less prohibitive to your engine.
@arthursimsa9005
@arthursimsa9005 2 жыл бұрын
@@kombainasable interesting. Thanks for the feedback. I don’t see how that could really be much different from the base game . At best it makes every faction play like the Germans (Saxony). Not really a game changer or a fix to imbalance between faction/player mats.
@kombainasable
@kombainasable 2 жыл бұрын
@@arthursimsa9005 yeah. it kind of fixes motivations a bit, but that's all. normally there is no benefit to fighting besides stars, so you leave them for the last stars to aim for
@TheFancyFilmmaker
@TheFancyFilmmaker 2 жыл бұрын
This in my opinion is one of the most over rated board games of all time. Don’t get me wrong it’s a fun game but not as great as people says it is in my opinion. I honestly felt like a mad man when after 4 playthroughs I finally came to the conclusion that I didn’t enjoy the game as much as I thought I would.
@maestroan3338
@maestroan3338 2 жыл бұрын
i like to play heavy games. but i love how chill scythe is. it looks like epic hard super deep strategy game. but is very beginner friendly game. i enjoy playing it with my wife and friends.
@arthursimsa9005
@arthursimsa9005 2 жыл бұрын
I’m actually baffled by its success, given how rigid and imbalanced it is. It’s not without merits for sure, and there is fun to be had in the competitive Scything, but so little here feels free. I mean it is so procedural and solitary for the vast majority of of the game time! And it’s not even balanced! You would assume players hungry for Euro mechanics would enjoy Scythe less than other, more solid Euros?
@moiseszermeno3539
@moiseszermeno3539 Жыл бұрын
I used to think like this, but after a while I started to enjoy it, there are many ways to play the game and is always a chill experience, excellent game to play with people new to boardgames
@tinkerlin8235
@tinkerlin8235 11 ай бұрын
I played it 3 times, the final time was with a friend who really loves min maxing, and he rolled the whole table in a few turns... Safe to say I have never played it again.
@LastNameTom
@LastNameTom 2 жыл бұрын
Fun game but only with 3 or more players. The game is WAY better when painted. And the one thing I think would make the game just a little better is a zero combat card that players start out with and keep. This lets you always grab a combat card to play to throw off the other players.
@MafiulRobin
@MafiulRobin 2 жыл бұрын
Everything you said negative is 100% true but I'll still rate it 10 out of 10. Because despite all it's flaws; it's still my most played game (500 time). I've some Scythe winning strategy guide in my chanel as well.
@Possi_ball
@Possi_ball 2 жыл бұрын
It's a cold war game that you must think very well what fight to take, while you guys seem to be in a very competitive group. The owner of the game plays to his full potential against noobs? Sounds like a dick move to me, that makes the game look bad and not the owner. Without the modular board, it's not supposed to be balanced and giving Saxony (the hardest to play since they got no farms in their starting area) to the new guy, is a also a big dick move 😛. Rusviet is a good faction to learn the game and kinda broken, but Crimea is super broken and must be given to the newest player. You can also pull some super clever tricks with Polania. All this could be fun, but if your group is very competitive, you are not gonna have a good time unless you are good too, as said in the review. Just for the fun of it, my base game faction tier, from worst to best, goes like this: 5. Saxony 4. Nordic 3. Polania 2. Rusviet 1. Crimea
@arthursimsa9005
@arthursimsa9005 2 жыл бұрын
« Without the modular board it’s not supposed to be balanced » this is the most stupid statement I’ve ever read, as well as obvious wrong. If the manager had wanted in-built imbalance, he would have implemented ways for players to prevent a run-away leader, in-built negociation mechanics, etc. Like in Root. Besides when we’re talking about imbalance in Scythe, we’re not talking between factions so much as between faction and player mat combinations.
@Possi_ball
@Possi_ball 2 жыл бұрын
@@arthursimsa9005 Nope. The starting area is half the part of what makes a faction good and without the modular board you can't change that. Crimea is broken, not only because of their awesome ability, but also about having a farm in their starting area, right next to their base. They don't even have to make a move action to start on gathering food and Enlist is the most important thing at the start of their game. If they got a mat with cheap Enlisting, that's even better for them. And the other starting worker is on a village, so you start getting workers again without moving, while all other factions except the Rusviets have to make a move action just to get on a village or farm. There is no way the designers didn't saw this and left it there by accident. They knew Crimea was broken and left it as is, maybe for newer players.
@FFWindchaser
@FFWindchaser 2 жыл бұрын
Speaking of Euro-style 4Xes, have you guys played Eclipse yet? I know it’s more than twice as expensive as Scythe, but it was excellent both times I played. It might scratch that itch for all four of the Xes lol
@Madgaar
@Madgaar 2 жыл бұрын
Hands down my favorite. Longer than scythe, yes. But so so so good.
@jimphilidor9031
@jimphilidor9031 2 жыл бұрын
I like Eclipse more than Scythe. Sadly I don't get to play it that often.
@arthursimsa9005
@arthursimsa9005 2 жыл бұрын
Haven’t played it, but yeah, Eclipse is often recommended to people disappointed by the… lacking « 4x » element in Scythe.
@Cpt_nice
@Cpt_nice 2 жыл бұрын
A lot of the criticism for this game comes down to "it's not a 4X". But I think that is a bit hollow, since the game has been mischaracterized as a 4X by some of the community, and iirc never by Jamey himself. Sure the cover has mechs, but that doesn't necessarily translate to "this is a hardcore war game". It literally has farmers in the foreground. A lot of the other criticism I definitely agree with, but you got to look at this game as a euro with a minor combat element, not a 4X game.
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
heyo! We're just basing the "4x label" based off of what's in the FAQ on Jamey's website, and especially the back of the box. We don't want someone to buy it at a store, thinking its a 4x, and then get bummed -Ashton
@arthursimsa9005
@arthursimsa9005 2 жыл бұрын
The 4x lie is on the box and in a faq by Jamey Stegmaier, who specifically chose to persist in this misnomer… And this is said in the shelfside video. It seems you’re criticising the review without having even watched it closely.
@brotherhorus4316
@brotherhorus4316 2 жыл бұрын
Fabulous intro, disagree with your score though. Maybe you should try this with the Fenris expansion?
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
That'll definitely happen at some point considering we have a friend who owns all the deluxe pieces and most expansions! But this review is for base game haha -Daniel
@MostlyFaded420
@MostlyFaded420 2 жыл бұрын
The comedy and editing skills leveled up! Been eager for your guys opinion on this one. Top notch as always
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
Much appreciated!
@Madgaar
@Madgaar 2 жыл бұрын
The negatives you mentioned is what we found during our first and last playthrough on TTS. Definitely not for my group. Get eclipse instead 😉
@TheNewLooter
@TheNewLooter 7 ай бұрын
I love this game, but your criticism is spot on. A very simple, non-invasive house rule that makes the game quite a bit better in my opinion is to increase max combat stars to 3 or 4, and stars required to end a game to 7 or 8 respectively. Saxony player gets extra 1-2 objective cards to compensate. Cheers!
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 7 ай бұрын
Cheers! Thanks for sharing -Ashton
@sebastienvivas9319
@sebastienvivas9319 2 жыл бұрын
INCREDIBLE INTRO, 11 OUT OF 10 WILL WATCH AGAIN!
@JM16714
@JM16714 Жыл бұрын
I have Root, TI4, 1775, and Coin games. so I don't have a spot for this one. If I want low conflict race for vp euros I already have those too. This game looks nice though. I can see plenty of people liking it. Plenty of puzzles to puzzle.
@robertnoall8847
@robertnoall8847 Жыл бұрын
Loved this review, especially the story about losing the fun if you are not on the same level. I had this with other games so good to know in advance!
@daem0nfaust
@daem0nfaust 2 жыл бұрын
I was very cautious with Scythe. I got the digital as an inexpensive "try" (also was on sale), and I was partly disappointed, partly impressed. Now I'm getting over that misunderstanding of what this game is. I am now good with getting a physical copy. But like in your review, it's important for me to introduce the game correctly. I like it. I'm still interested with a Scythe-theme card game, more of that art! Great video! Great editing. They just keep getting better. Thank you for making this.
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks! You got a good plan for Scythe haha -Daniel
@leondavid295
@leondavid295 7 ай бұрын
Daniel gave a 3/10 and then 5/10 just because there isn't enough fighting (that's not the purpose of the game) is stupif af, sorry.
@DeyaViews
@DeyaViews 2 жыл бұрын
IMO, Scythe is great... as a digital app. I enjoyed playing it that way, against AI players. On a table with a physical copy, it would be too oddly paced, too locked into specific paths for each faction, and the victory point calculation is a chore. This video, and the others I've watched of y'alls over the past year+ have convinced me that our tastes are pretty similar! That's always great to find in a reviewer. (:
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
cheers man! Had a good amount of enjoyment with the digital app too. Was so psyched how fast games went. -Ashton
@arthursimsa9005
@arthursimsa9005 2 жыл бұрын
Really? I find even hard Ai way too easy.
@spitfire4209
@spitfire4209 2 жыл бұрын
Is it just me are are some of the meeples identical to those in Viticulture?
@NoeAnton
@NoeAnton Жыл бұрын
Damn you guys are very picky, been clicking to random review videos and I can't seem to find something that satisfies you.
@TheFancyFilmmaker
@TheFancyFilmmaker 2 жыл бұрын
Would love it if y’all reviews terraforming mars
@TheOldMan-75
@TheOldMan-75 2 жыл бұрын
Scythe feels pretty much on rails early on and then the game is almost over when you get close to your enemies. On top of that, I'm not a fan of buying expansions to fix a very flawed base game.
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
My man be spitting facts out here -Daniel
@sAKecOkE
@sAKecOkE 2 жыл бұрын
Scythe is my favorite game, so it's very sad to me that so many people get initially disappointed due to wrong expectations and then never give it another chance or always look at it with that initial "This game betrayed me" feeling. Once you get deep enough into it that the balance starts becoming a concern, you can add expansion content or play with a bidding step added to the beginning of the game to balance out the faction/mat combinations. There's a fairly small but very enjoyable competitive scene, and its digital edition is neat to learn the rules and have a quick match whenever you feel like it. 10/10 for me :)
@mikebannwart2913
@mikebannwart2913 7 күн бұрын
i forgot about the neighbors rules for the recruit... hooray for learning something today
@cyanure1320
@cyanure1320 Жыл бұрын
it s kind of the impression i had while trying it for the first hour, this game is not for me. most review don't adress this "problem"s, at least i ve seen none of them doing it
@raustzeal4212
@raustzeal4212 2 жыл бұрын
this game is all flash no substance. fancy solitaire, definitely the most overrated game.
@elqord.1118
@elqord.1118 2 жыл бұрын
Not really. There’s solid gameplay here.
@raustzeal4212
@raustzeal4212 2 жыл бұрын
@@elqord.1118 Just my opinion. But I'll speak for my playgroup too. Only one of my friends likes it
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
Very similar thing with our group lol, though I wouldn't call it pure solitaire since there's pretty heavy interaction in the last few turns assuming similar skill levels lol (nowhere near enough for almost all of our group's taste) -Daniel
@patrickpmcbride
@patrickpmcbride 2 жыл бұрын
You keep upping your game with these reviews lately. No sacred cows here, just good, fair, and nuanced content
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks! Getting more stuff out for ya guys all the time :) -Ashton
@wrath231
@wrath231 Жыл бұрын
I got hosed on my first play of Scythe, had a player raid my main base. Couldnt stand to play it again tbh.
@frankle9617
@frankle9617 2 жыл бұрын
Next: Inis ?
@squishybuspr
@squishybuspr 2 жыл бұрын
Scythe is a kick ass game but I think the rulebook absolutely sucks at explaining how to use your player board / mat. The player mat is inarguably the core of the game and if you don’t understand how to interpret the mat, you literally cannot play the game. The player mats are not self explanatory whatsoever and there is definitely an “initial state” for each mat that is not clearly defined in the rulebook. That is really my only criticism of Scythe. The rulebook needs to be updated with several examples of how to use the player mat properly and how to interpret the flow of resources from slot to slot. Perhaps this has been updated in later printings but as far as I know, the mat is needlessly confusing to every new player. All other elements are easy to understand.
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
Well said! I was going to put this in the cons section, but the game does come with a singular player aid sheet, so at least there's something there. Do wish they went harder on that. Cheers! -Ashton
@CHAOSBLACKDOOM
@CHAOSBLACKDOOM 2 жыл бұрын
While the marketing of the game might have been incorrect on being a true 4X, that isn't a con of the game itself. While of course this is your opinion to have it be included, I think if you only stick to aspects of the game itself, perhaps it would be worthy of an 8/10?
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
When we're evaluating games we're trying to see how well the game is doing what it says it's trying to do, since that's a great way to line up its expectations with those who'd be interested in potentially getting the game. The fact that Scythe just isn't a 4X while heavily insisting that it is in fact a labeling problem that has already caused many disappointed purchases and the need for the discourse around the game to constantly correct itself. -Daniel
@simonmtkwong
@simonmtkwong 2 жыл бұрын
I think the fun of the game is to "learn" it, reading up on strategy is like reading the spoilers of a book. If the noobs are losing they really need to get together and destroy the king, it can totally be done.
@meathir4921
@meathir4921 2 жыл бұрын
Hanging up on a player basically doesn’t work in Scythe; the game doesn’t really have much to slow someone whose ball is rolling until later on.
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
On top of that, a good player will usually already have 4 non combat stars in half the time as the newcomers, meaning they can end the game by winning 2 fights before newcomers can even amass power and cards to meaningfully interact. -Daniel
@Lavoye
@Lavoye Жыл бұрын
Yep. Average game for me too. I just don't get how this game got so popular.
@lotusmoon2744
@lotusmoon2744 2 жыл бұрын
The amount of time and effort you put into this review is amazing. Thank you for creating this, if only this review was made earlier to inform/warn more new unsuspecting players before investing into this game as it can get expensive. I really appreciate how fair you was with both the pros and cons as well as a in depth explanation of the balancing issues. I wish it didn't advertise itself as a "4X" when it's more of a euro. This being said, I own Scythe and pretty much everything for it including the metal mechs. I do still really like this game and it's too bad you really have to invest to get all the expansions to make it more fair for new players. The Rise of Fenris was also a god send to make this game very enjoyable and break up that "best way to play" scripted actions to a fast victory. Overall, the truth of the gross imbalances of the game hurts when I've invested so much into the game, and I don't want to be "that guy" who brings out Scythe to some friends who are new to board gaming just to crush them resulting in a bad time. Thanks again, keep making these amazing reviews.
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, it sucks how once you're experienced you're basically locked into only being able to get good games with players of a similar skill level, and while most sessions are great then, there's still the chance everyone is dealt crazily imbalanced combinations that can predetermine the outcome. Seems the best way to address that is heavy house rules like a bidding system or getting all of the expansions, at which point Scythe is barely even base Scythe anymore. -Daniel
@-Ambos-
@-Ambos- 2 жыл бұрын
I think Eclipse Second Dawn could be what you wished Scythe could bei! -btw there aren't many reviews about Eclipse second dawn yet
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
ahahaha we gotta get there one day then! It's a big one so it'll be tough to review, but mad hype -Ashton
@-Ambos-
@-Ambos- 2 жыл бұрын
@@Shelfside I just ordered it second hand I am scared about the usual hype, too. But I will see in a few days. Have a nice weekend! Greetings from Germany
@uaputte
@uaputte 2 жыл бұрын
Its one of the worst game ever maide, a toaly pointless waits of time and resouses!
@thelyghter7927
@thelyghter7927 2 жыл бұрын
Next review: Prophecy of Kings Definitve Review!!
@haseo1
@haseo1 2 жыл бұрын
Amazing intro !
@DanteOne86
@DanteOne86 2 жыл бұрын
This is exactly how I feel about this game. Its an Euro in disguise and for that reason I dont really like it. Feels clunky
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
I personally would've received it so much better if it just labeled itself as not a 4x lol -Daniel
@dialupsyndrome1910
@dialupsyndrome1910 2 жыл бұрын
You guys really should try Eclipse : second dawn for the galaxy. It's like scythe but with all the benefits you wish it had.
@st0ox
@st0ox 2 жыл бұрын
Yes and without the bloat.
@BreezingThrou
@BreezingThrou 2 жыл бұрын
TI4 beware... Eclipse has turned 13 of our TI players into Eclipse players. It was hard for us to play TI before Eclipse, had 3-4 games a year, but now most the TI players rather play Eclipse which we play at least once a month since we got it. When it arrived (so a long wait, and a horrid KS) we had 6 games in a week. Something that never happened with TI, and since that day 4 of our TI players just refuse to play TI now, were 9 still will play TI but every time TI is meantioned Eclipse is recommended instead and we have to force TI on table as a vote will lead to just playing Eclipse.
@BreezingThrou
@BreezingThrou 2 жыл бұрын
Also... not like Scythe really, more like TI meets Xia, with a small pinch of Scythel
@st0ox
@st0ox 2 жыл бұрын
@@BreezingThrou I really like Eclipse, but I don't like the map setup for less than 4 people, because it just takes too long to get in contact with the other players. So we play custom maps now also without the center piece, because it is boring. It just takes away momentum. Definitely the weakest part of Eclipse. But the rest of the game is really good, would still like to see a big expansion, though.
@dialupsyndrome1910
@dialupsyndrome1910 2 жыл бұрын
@@BreezingThrou yeah I just meant in the sense it's a true 4x, with the ships taking front and centre. One of the complaints was that the mechs are basically just buses in scythe. I really want to try TI, it seems like a bit more of a roleplay game, but is much more of a commitment than eclipse. I love eclipse, definitely in my top games list, but it would be nice to try TI too.
@g8kpr3000
@g8kpr3000 2 жыл бұрын
While I do t disagree with any of your points, Scythe is still one of my favourite games. I’d rate it an 8/10. I never went into it expecting a 4x or massive mech combat. So maybe that spares me thinking I got cheated out of an expected experience. Much like I did with lost ruins of boredom. I mean Arnak.
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah if the back of the box and the website didn't say it was a 4X that probably would've prevented sooo many people from being disappointed lol -Daniel
@demonicbunny3po
@demonicbunny3po 10 ай бұрын
This was a lovely review. Perfectly encapsulates the pros and cons of the game. Personally, I would give Scythe a personal score of 7/10. With that said, I think I will now begin to suggest my favorite board game for you to review. An evil little game called Tragedy Looper. Day 1 of requesting Tragedy Looper.
@jeffzlatkin469
@jeffzlatkin469 2 жыл бұрын
Like you said, it feels like 4 People playing sudoku, solitaire, crossword. That seems to bear itself well to solo multi-player. Who can I do better with with who has what. Well, then there is the Combat Card mechanic. At the very least you won't forget about Enlist..:-)
@leadbones
@leadbones 2 жыл бұрын
Not sure I understand why you'd rate a game lower, simply because you misunderstood the concept. This game was presented as exactly what it is, and at no point was I confused by the marketing or hype about what it was going to be. If you thought it was going to be tactical combat focused, that's your mistake. It was never presented that way. It's like you're upset that that you keep trying to play Go Fish with your copy of Connect Four, and blame the game that it doesn't work out for you. I see your point of view. I simply disagree that it is the fault of the game.
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
It literally says it's a 4x when it's not -Daniel
@leadbones
@leadbones 2 жыл бұрын
@@Shelfside It is. It isn't a typical 4x. You do explore, and even in the base game, you can cripple your opponents and dominate the board with combat if you feel you need to go that route. If you have Rise of Fenris, it is even more of all four x's if you want to add in the right modules. Literally xterminating your opponent and taking them out of the game early, in a 4x video game sort of way, would be a pretty shitty design for a board game. Xterminate is abstracted in a way in this case, like everything else in a Euro game.
@rmsgrey
@rmsgrey 2 жыл бұрын
One nitpick with the review - having units return to base rather than being destroyed is not the soft option - yes, you get to keep your mech powers, but you also keep the inflated produce cost, and you have to spend move actions in order to get those pieces back into play at all, and probably multiple move actions in order to get them anywhere relevant again, when redeploying mechs, and reproducing workers would get them into useful locations immediately. Sure, it's not possible to be completely exterminated, but in actual play, destroying workers and mechs that then need to be regained the same way they were originally wouldn't differ that much from having them sent home to where they're useless. In both cases you're sending units back to a pool from which they can be brought back into play.
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
Personally I don't really find getting sent back to base to be a problem except with Crimea, as every faction has the speed upgrade plus some means of immediately teleporting back in (or in the case of Nordic not even get sent back) -Daniel
@rmsgrey
@rmsgrey 2 жыл бұрын
@@Shelfside It's worst when it's non-mechs getting sent back - then every single worker takes a separate move to get back on the board (where a mech can pick them up and spread them out again).
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
@@rmsgrey I can see why that would hurt a lot, but we've found that workers are rarely by themselves since mechs are carrying them around in the first place, and if there are mechless workers, it's usually only 1 worker per hex in the late game when everyone is scrambling for territory, and the game's usually over in a round or two by then -Daniel
@rmsgrey
@rmsgrey 2 жыл бұрын
@@Shelfside In any case, even if the bad cases are rare, the best case of having units sent back to base is still hard to distinguish from having them destroyed - it still takes at least one action to get them back onto the map - probably two actions to actually use them - but unless deploy is the bottom action of the move action, you could deploy and move a mech in only two turns, while it would take three to move it back into play and then move it to do something (two moves and something else in between). The only advantage to not having to deploy to get a mech back in action is if you'd struggle to get the metal.
@Lunaghost1991
@Lunaghost1991 2 жыл бұрын
Ya.. i really like the game but it always felt just so wrong, that nothing was going on with the huge mechs...instead of playing taxi. :( We also have fenris in the shelf but never got around playing it haha...ehem..yap. one of these purchases. Maybe Fenris fixes some issues but idk yet.
@Danny_DaKid
@Danny_DaKid 2 жыл бұрын
You definitely should’ve put the “not being 4x” under nitpicks
@arthursimsa9005
@arthursimsa9005 2 жыл бұрын
It’s not a nitpick. It’s a major marketing miscommunication, and perhaps a design mistake explaining why the game is so rigid and imbalanced.
@Danny_DaKid
@Danny_DaKid 2 жыл бұрын
@@arthursimsa9005 idk about major, relax lol. We could “technically” back and forth all day how this is and isn’t considered 4x. I was satisfied with the “4xness” that it brought to the table in under 2 hrs, especially considering the theme/setting is pretty much like a Cold War era, where fighting isn’t the most advantageous. But no, please keep making the same 4x game over and over again with no innovation. God forbid someone tries something different in the 4x genre.
@arthursimsa9005
@arthursimsa9005 2 жыл бұрын
@@Danny_DaKid shelside made a very sound argument in this very video, so I won’t waste my time debating with you.
@picivyvortac2641
@picivyvortac2641 2 жыл бұрын
All these criticisms are totally fair. I am particularly disappointed with how the game doesn't feel like what it looks like. That being said, it's my 3rd favorite game on earth. It's also one of my only beloved eurogames. I'm an ameritrash player but this eurogame is my 3rd fave.
@tobiasnenseter8044
@tobiasnenseter8044 Жыл бұрын
My friend got this game as a birthday gift from our group so we have to play it no matter if i like it or not. I also hoped for more combat which made me hard loose my first game as Saxony. This game feels like a game without any interaction, we just play our own single player game and suddendly win. The good games in this world is: something-haven, Unmatched, Root and i loved Game of Thrones the board game in high school (even thogh the win con is dogs- and bullshite).
@lu7ky
@lu7ky 2 жыл бұрын
Love the Titanfall reference in the intro, shame you guys did not like it but to each their own though I do agree with some of your cons as well.
@BreezingThrou
@BreezingThrou 2 жыл бұрын
Well... this day has arrived... knew it would happen, at some point,. I have disagreed on points before, but this is first time were I thought your review was wrong in many ways. Could discuss this but would take a lot of time and effort, to try to change your opinion and you are free to form your own mind so will just respect that and try to move on...
@LittlyLary
@LittlyLary Жыл бұрын
I love Scythe, excited to try the new expeditions game, I bought it on table top simulator when it was available and now have a physical copy with painted mechs and heros! Eventually I'll pick up the "DLC" sets.
@kristofh604
@kristofh604 10 ай бұрын
The modular board is really important for me (and some balancing house rules: buff nordic / nerf crimea/rusviet / saxony [a bit]). Additionally the expansion with more impactful encouters helps to speed up the game and reduce earlier solitaire (especially in combination with the modular board since it is smaller and gives easier access to the other player areas).
@DarthNVious
@DarthNVious 2 жыл бұрын
I wonder if a Ameritrash board game version of Iron Harvest will be released similar to Company of Heroes. It will be a combat centric version of Scythe; plus I really like the Steam game.
@justanerd1138
@justanerd1138 2 жыл бұрын
Good review of Scyth yet... Gloomhaven is just a hand managment puzzle with a map, not a dungeon crawl.
@hamzad5061
@hamzad5061 2 жыл бұрын
Wow, cool video! I'm curious about a review of clash of cultures monumental edition. Not much content about it and think you will like it as well.
@matthewpeterson3926
@matthewpeterson3926 2 жыл бұрын
I think it would be cool to hear your opinions on the Garphill games. They are very Euro ranging on interactivity from Architects (you can place other workers in prison) to Paladins and Hadrian’s wall ( which are almost as multiplayer solitaire you can get but very crunchy and combo tastic) and all of the games in between. They are coming out with Circadians Chaos Order which is a high conflict faction based area control game. I think you would at the very least be interested in digging into their games.
@crimsonhead100
@crimsonhead100 2 жыл бұрын
I thought scythe was a war game turns out its a farming simulator and I'm okay with that
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
ahaha yep, its a very well done mech farming simulator at times -Ashton
@rpgmusik2172
@rpgmusik2172 Жыл бұрын
Scythe was commercially successful because the 1920+ aesthetic is great, not because Scythe is great.
@yannlaliberte8407
@yannlaliberte8407 2 жыл бұрын
I like this game, everyone has a different point of view, a review is only a single person point of view, taste etc. Scythe is a awesome game (for me)
@junker154
@junker154 Жыл бұрын
I think this really nailed the essence of Scythe and why it is perhaps less played than expected. There are some "Scythisms" and odd mechanics that dont work out well. Enlist can also go to hell. Yet there is much to like!
@dackjaniel
@dackjaniel 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the review! Would love to hear your thoughts on an interactive Euro like Hansa Teutonica.
@LauReXyLL
@LauReXyLL 9 ай бұрын
Glad to see this channel go out of their comfort zone by playing something more complex than what they're used to.
2 жыл бұрын
Really good review, want to point out that this is a good game to example that different groups make or brake games, I'm pretty much always the more experience gamer in my group compose of family and friends and i can be really exited to let other more inexperience players "win" meanwhile i couch / play because this kind a game for me are more of a personal puzzle with the tension of potencial fight that and all out brawl, so with that say for our group this game flow pretty good that others that are more full the way competitive,
@BobbyJuno
@BobbyJuno 2 жыл бұрын
@33:50 I taught this game to my wife and purposely left this action out. I didn't want to distract her too much from her own actions by making her worry whether or not she's getting rewards for my actions aswell.
@ClarkSoulfly
@ClarkSoulfly Жыл бұрын
Wow, definetely not agree, me and my group love this game !
@Shelfside
@Shelfside Жыл бұрын
Yup, it's a good game! I can see why a ton of people enjoy it! -Daniel
@williammcneil2045
@williammcneil2045 2 жыл бұрын
wait the rule is not awful to god awful? but that never happens!
@williammcneil2045
@williammcneil2045 2 жыл бұрын
rulebook:P
@williamjames842
@williamjames842 2 жыл бұрын
I haven't seen a board game KZbinr whose opinions i align more with than Daniel's. Seems like most of the other KZbinrs were bullied growing up, never learned to deal with it, and can't take any direct confrontation and can only handle dealing out heaps of passive aggressiveness. (Feel sorry for their girlfriends!). Bwahahah, snide joking aside, may i request that you guys do eclipse 2nd ed? Your TI review was pretty epic and convinced me to buy the game and i am hoping you guys can shed some light on... eclipse... Pun-y... I know...
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
oh man, one day with Eclipse! one day! -Ashton
@lp9092
@lp9092 2 жыл бұрын
Transformers in disguise... only mechs are a bus. Hahahahaha
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
Bus mode is the primary mode /s -Daniel
@LastNameTom
@LastNameTom 2 жыл бұрын
Review Cthulhu Death May Die next!
@PaulMB40
@PaulMB40 2 жыл бұрын
Another superb review. Thank you for what must have been an epic production. Scythe casts this spell of me that I believe is common for all who see it (while being almost deceptively intended by its creators): yep, its presentation and theme run contradictory to the actual game. You expounded upon that nicely. Yet, even knowing that, I still become enamoured with it... until I read reviews and are quickly reminded that it's not actually a game I want to play. Maybe it should be renamed Lieythe. Yes, that was a terrible joke, but I'm a dad, so that's part of my job description.
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
ahaha, I see what you did there. It is really much so that the initial marketing is misleading, where it sounds more epic than its resource efficiency gameplay really is. Cheers! -Ashton
@andreidinu4438
@andreidinu4438 2 жыл бұрын
So we geeting a Civilazation review any time soon? *pretty please*
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
i'll see if I can make it work :) -Ashton
@williammcneil2045
@williammcneil2045 2 жыл бұрын
um i dont recall, is there a good mecha board game ? are there any ? ps i hate battletech
@JM16714
@JM16714 Жыл бұрын
Ashton, You guys need to try the academy games series. 878 Vikings or 1775 Rebellion. Lighter euro wargame hybrids with interesting mechanics.
@Shelfside
@Shelfside Жыл бұрын
Noted! Have heard 878 vikings recommended before -Ashton
@Agumon5
@Agumon5 2 жыл бұрын
I am very glad I watched your vid. I saw this game at the store and almost impulse bought it, but glad I waited to watch your review. It looks amazing, but is definitely not my type of game, nor what I was hoping it would be.
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
Glad this helped! Scythe is so devious with its presentation hahaha -Daniel
@Omalley69
@Omalley69 2 жыл бұрын
Cool vid. Modular board really fixes this wonna be war insired euro.
@IslanKleinknecht
@IslanKleinknecht 2 жыл бұрын
I hope you guys get a chance to try Clash of Cultures sometime, I'd love to hear how you think it compares to Civilization, even if it's not a full review.
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
would be a fun quick review comparison thingy! Also granted on how making a really deep review on these heavier games is incredibly straining ahaha -Ashton
@DantsSable
@DantsSable 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome video as always, what about the civilization review? Can’t believe you haven’t done it yet
@harrylee1896
@harrylee1896 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome video - made me realise this game isn't for me to buy.. yet.
@ericegan5707
@ericegan5707 Жыл бұрын
You guys should review Cyclades and expansions.
@fieryfirevivin
@fieryfirevivin 2 жыл бұрын
Dude the quality of your work is over the moon. Lets see this channel explode to the moon guys. Subscribe!!!!
@Shelfside
@Shelfside 2 жыл бұрын
cheers man, I remember you suggesting Scythe too! Glad we could get it out for ya -Ashton
@eriksjogren800
@eriksjogren800 Ай бұрын
Thank you for the video
@shortydancer
@shortydancer 2 жыл бұрын
Another great video guys. One of the best boardgame KZbin channels. Always quality content
@wartable
@wartable 2 жыл бұрын
Worst game ever
@williammcneil2045
@williammcneil2045 2 жыл бұрын
how long is it? i was playing terra mystica and it was way too long
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