Shell Cordovan vs. Calf vs. Bison vs. Deer vs. Steer - Leather Grain Comparison

Let's compare the grain character in different leathers.
ashlandleather...
/ ashlandleather

[@Eli5047]

Thank you. This is the only video I found that told me there's no crease with the Shell Cordovan

[@IAMYOUMusic]

i think a deer skin exterior with bison interior johnny the fox would be pretty cool

[@DalesLeatherworks]

That bison Chromexcel looks SO COOL!!!!

[@AshlandLeather]

The texture on the bison is super interesting. I'm surprised more companies aren't using bison. The biggest brand that I can recall using it in Chromexcel was Trask

[@YwY-ct5yq]

I got some hardened Calfskin schoes very nice

[@viningscircle]

Very informative and interesting video Phil. I would like to offer a suggestion. I think introducing a triangle snap closure coin holder would be great in Horween, especially also offered in shell cordovan. It could be for both guys and gals. Just a thought to throw out there. 😉👍

[@AshlandLeather]

Hey, Spence! I really appreciate the suggestions! We definitely need a good coin pouch in the line up

[@yohankusuma5510]

That denim shell cordovan is looking FINE

[@renegadestudioworks]

Hair holes? I think the word you're looking for is follicles :)

[@semchawaheb-jx7gj]

which one is softer ? the shell cordovan or the bison leather ?

[@Florida_Man95]

Hi, loved the video! I'm trying to start a small leather goods co and I'm struggling with finding the right weights for my leather projects. I thought about buying a splitter but as you said I'm worried it may weaken the leather. What ounces do y'all usually use for your main vs interior pockets? Thank you again for the informative video!

[@AshlandLeather]

This is a really great question. For wallets: We use around 4 oz for the main pieces of leather and around 3 oz when we need to make a lot of stacked card pockets (Johnny the Fox interiors). You should experiment for yourself by skiving some trials by hand yourself before investing in a splitter or a skiving machine. You should notice the tensile strength is reduced a significant amount when you remove material from the leather. A lot of places get around this loss of strength by backing the thinned down leather with a non-leather stiffener or backing material. A note: it is really hard to find naturally thin pieces around 3 oz -- the only reliable source of thin leather I am able to get is horsehide but hosehide is also very challenging because it has a lot of grain clarity issues and inconsistency

[@cozmicblade4410]

where does moose come in on that list , is it soft like deer but thick like cowhide?

[@AshlandLeather]

I haven't ever experienced moose leather, personally

[@wahinepaddler4]

Umm..how have I not come across your videos sooner 😳 love your attention to detail 🥰

[@AshlandLeather]

Glad you found me :)

[@arseny2768]

Shell cordovan is not underneath the skin it is part of the skin. It is made from back of a horse hide (hide from German Haut - skin) . There are specifically two spots called shells in English from which shell cordovan is made.

[@thysonsacclaim]

This is purely a difference in the colloquial term where skin means just the "outer layer" and the scientific definition, which considers many layers of the skin--the epidermis, dermis, and the hypodermis. Regardless everyone knew what was meant without the pedagogy.

[@The.Best.Collector]

It's from the horses 🐎 ass/bum/butt area and it's disgusting because horses 🐎 are pets! 🥶🥶🥶🥶🥶

[@dshe8637]

The top surface is removed for cordovan, so it is, to some extent, under the skin

[@Da-op8wv]

@@The.Best.Collectorcows are pets too and in some religions they’re even sacred animals

[@matthewsilfer2010]

I mean I appreciate the explanation, a membrane is not a good definition lol

[@anastasiosvra9024]

Thanks much for the video and for showing us so many great products! Question for you, how does the shell cordovan patina compared to other leather types like full grain? Does it loose it's distinctive shine fairly quickly? Cause those shel Cordovans look awesome right of the shelf! With Shel cordovan ages the most elegantly? Please add any insight of your on those shells patina journey!

[@davidhunternyc1]

After watching this video, if I wanted the softest, most comfortable sneakers from Crown Northampton, the leather that I should get is deer skin. Dear seems so much softer and subtle, closest to typical canvas sneakers. Shell cordovan may be the apex of leathers but in a sneaker it seems counter intuitive. What's your thoughts? Thanks.

[@tianamarie989]

I don't think using just the deer would suffice for shoes. I would use the deer as a lining instead.

[@Blinkerd00d]

So did you make the fat herbie first or did mascon leather make the chunky charlie first? Just curious.

[@AshlandLeather]

I started making Fat Herbie in 2011. Not sure when Chunky Charlie came about but I think it was several years later

[@Blinkerd00d]

@@AshlandLeather oh ok, that's cool. I was just curious, I didn't mean to imply anything by it or anything.

[@gergemall]

Thx Phil, the best explanation I’ve ever seen.❤

[@abaddonnoddaba7396]

Hey! Awesome video. I think it eould also be interesting to see the difference between: camel, goat, kangaroo leathers too. And maybe also a video on small mamel leathers ie fox, coons, squirrel, etc... And what each of them are best used for.

[@chucksolutions4579]

I want to build two “ultimates,” firefighter boots and custom motorcycle jacket. But leather is leather, right? WRONG (obviously). I work in San Diego and the leathers I’m most curious about are (different types of) deer, shark, stingray, kangaroo, bison, HORSE (new as of today the cordovan shell I just found out is from the rear of a horse) vs steer/cow/bull etc. I don’t care too much about looks, I care about function. I I want the best boots/jacket (and gloves, possibly a pair of overalls one day, but I digress) with the best materials. I’m learning so much but instead of it helping me, I think I know things that those who’ve been building these things for decades bc I’m willing to ask, what about bull shark vs blue shark stingray and kangaroo? And I get looks like I’m an idiot. I will say actually touching stingray helped me understand some things.

[@AshlandLeather]

I don't have any deep knowledge on shark, stingray, or kangaroo. Keep in mind that the leather tannage (what the tannery puts into the hide) matters even more than the hide type.

[@seiko9361]

What is the differnece between cordovan and shell cordovan leather ?

[@AshlandLeather]

They are the same

[@makeshiamullins4144]

Curious why the leather you’re holding while describing Bison leather has “deer” written on it?

[@AshlandLeather]

They were labeled on the backside of the leather with a sharpie marker and transferred to the piece sitting underneath

[@JodysJemsQuilting]

I need help. I have Dansko's and the calfskin (as they told me) under the cuff across the top of the shoes cracks and falls apart. What do you recommend to keep the calf leather from falling apart?

[@johnathanesposito6905]

That English tan dublin is epic.

[@gurmeetsindhu4022]

Can you also explain goat and sheep leather

[@Arianm09]

cool video but i think the aperture was so wide open that almost nothing was kept in focus and made it hard for me to watch.

[@CSiri-cc2hq]

Very informative. Thank you for this video.

[@AshlandLeather]

My pleasure. Glad to be of service

[@wavygoods877]

Where would you rate/place deer skin compared to the ones mentioned?

[@AshlandLeather]

Its tough to say because it really depends on what you are using the material for. Further, it depends on what has been tanned into the leather. Generally speaking the deer skins I have seen tend to be softer and very grainy. They also have a lot of rough spots and imperfections/inconsistencies in the hide. Given the same tannage I'd rate deer pretty low. If I am making a soft glove I would rate deer higher than the others

[@MMM88X]

Thanks Phil, great video as always. Very informative. Cheers.

[@mikeczyz]

hey! that's probably my valet tray!!!!

[@jackcloud8547]

I'm the 1000th likes. You're welcomed

[@AshlandLeather]

Thanks, Jack!

[@danielirvine7468]

Have you played with a kangaroo? I want to see if it's anything like cordovan. The glazed too looks like cordovan .

[@AshlandLeather]

Hey Daniel -- I have tried out some kangaroo before. The kangaroo we had was a special project for some torch sheaths. The leather wasn't anywhere close to the shell cordovan. It definitely had a grain to it. I'm not sure what leather tannage the kangaroo was but it was a veg similar to a lot of stuff Wickett and Craig does but a bit softer.

[@jeffhicks8428]

riddle me this. why are all the sophisticated euro leatherworkers that make high end wallets out of high end stuff commonly like boxcalf, etc.. able to make such refined and sophisticated wallets, that are sleek and stylish and come in at like less than half the thickness of the stuff you showed. and yet their products last a long time. is it just the skill and time willing to put in ? Must be skill. they must be using methods that more amateur makers, and there are tons of em, esp. on youtube, just don't know how to do.

[@AshlandLeather]

I would need a specific example to tell you what they are doing differently. From what I see a lot of higher end luxury stuff uses thin leather but they laminate on a non leather backer to the thin piece of leather. The added backer helps to prevent ripping.

[@jeffhicks8428]

@@AshlandLeather I've definitely seen that very commonly on lots of what I'd call middle tier small leather goods. The highest end stuff doesn't have as much of this. It's typically all leather, including the lining, which is sometimes a different and softer leather such as the deerskin. To be fair it does come in more fragile but with care the small leather goods still get to live long healthy lives and are very stylish and refined. Certainly wont last anywhere near as long as the idk what to call the style the rugged manly style of the kinds of small leather goods you see more commonly in youtube leather land. The wallets you showed off in the video are the best I've seen in that space. They have a touch of refinement but still have rugged and manly man vibe.

[@tigersaint124]

What is Ranch Hand Leather?

[@AshlandLeather]

Honestly I don't know

[@kylegosiaco5318]

Hi! Great video 😊 can you do a video on horse rump? Its characteristics and how it ages?

[@AshlandLeather]

I’ll put this on the list. Thanks!

[@kylegosiaco5318]

@@AshlandLeather thank you! Looking forward to it 😊

[@TheLT704]

Thanks for letting me see this.. very nice and interesting

[@MrAli-lu3gu]

Which animal leather is best for wallets ?

[@AshlandLeather]

As far as I am concerned they are all equally "good". It really depends on the aesthetics that you are desiring. A lot of the performance/toughness/strength will come from the specific leather tannage and not necessarily the animal choice

[@The.Best.Collector]

Embossed calfskin with silk lining and the edges folded over and handmade by a top maker with a price of £500+ (that's pounds not dollars or euros)

[@walidzein1]

Calf skin is the clear winner here

[@RaMoonArt]

So great jop

[@jason41a]

i'm not that knowledgable in leather but i always go for real leather, full-grain if possible. my leather wallets, porfolios last 20+ years so far. after a while i jsut put some conditioner on them. they just come in so many styles and colors, and even brandnames. real leather is absolutely long lasting, beautiful, enviromentally friendly, and has a soul. i absolutely hate those plastic fake vegan polyurethane 'leather'. after 3-5 years they just crack (and they came from petroleum causing carbon, pollution, not renewable, bad for the environement, etc too).

[@DLSWV]

👍😉

[@chicagonews1878]

What about calf cordovan?

[@AshlandLeather]

I've never heard of this before. I could just be ignorant on this term but it is my understanding that shell cordovan only comes from the hindquarters of equine animals

[@coreo72]

Kangaroo?

[@Zakariah1971]

Deep dive down the rabbit hole by Edomite 😳

[@unbiased1004]

It says deer on it, why you say its bison ?

[@SKG37]

Checkout the 1:43 timestamp where Phil flips the deer hide over. You'll see the word "DEER" written on it in a bold, dark ink. The ink has merely transferred onto the bison from being in contact with it, probably with weight pushing down on it from being stacked.