Sheol - KOA HONEST REVIEW!

[@robinrising9929]

the lux and the tower defense parts of the game are just fantastic looking, it looks like it's going to be tense game after game as you figure out how to use those triple use cards. I'm glad you mentioned the city blocking the board, as I might not get the minis pack to avoid having the 120mm mega city taking over the sight line. I'm remembering everdell and how bad that tree is.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Hah yeah these things always look cool until you actually play, then they are often in the way. I'll have to see how much the city blocks. It should be less as you can see through the layers and it's tapered like a cone instead of straight up and down like the standee.

[@JPWestmas]

Your description and summary of the game sounds fun actually thanks!

[@TheKingofAverage]

Awesome! I enjoyed it :)

[@siriactuallysara]

I’m glad you did a review of this game. The theme looked really good

[@TheKingofAverage]

Oh it all looks incredible! Very unique style done very well IMO.

[@cath_paluc701]

Thanks for the review and thanks for commenting on the campaign page. Good to know player boards are coming. Now, I just have to convince my husband I need another game.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Haha that's always the problem right? :D

[@Muageto]

Let's hope you'll send some more backers to them :D It would be great if they manage to fund in the first week (I doubt they'll do it day 1)

[@TheKingofAverage]

Hopefully! :)

[@gangamel5979]

Did I see you in the Quackalope discord server? Or was that just someone with the same profile pic

[@Muageto]

@@gangamel5979 Hahaha was me surely (I assume same nickname as well)

[@successfulgeek]

@@gangamel5979 We are all here. That discord is the place to be, and we all like quality videos like Quackalope and KoA!

[@qsy190]

Hey, KOA. Glad to see you doing this. ^_^ Hopefully it's good and you'll help them. Lol But, question: in the future, *would you be open to using a small area to the side, with a camera on a tripod?For some amazing closeup of cards.* To really see what you're talking about at the moment. Or using multiple cameras + angles that are zoomed in more, and then edit to show which camera you were engaging in at the moment of talking? It all looks sooo far away, I have no idea how anything looks during gameplay. Your lighting is good, image is sharp AF, WB is nice, audio is great. But I can't see anything, so, it's almost like podcast, to me (every other reviewer I've seen also did the same zoomed-out video, so it's been difficult to get into any video). Anyway, appreciate the video, your explanations, and honest opinions. Take care!

[@TheKingofAverage]

I appreciate the feedback a ton! I am actively looking into getting a second (better) main camera and making this the secondary one. Also looking into getting a better lens as well. Eventually I'd love a setup that allows me to also be in it and then to swap to a close up view when talking specifics. Hopefully what I say is still informative at least!

[@patriziopastore9895]

Thanks man! I like how the game is kind of pushing you to explore in different way, I hope that the story is strong enough if the combat is not very stratified. What I don’t understand is the high target... more than 300k. We know that with 50k neither 100k you cannot produce a game with mins (maybe only card) but 300k is intimidating and they are not CMON. Also is kind of “blocking” the stretch goal... a tricky way to involve more people that usually work.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Well the first few stretch goals are always crap like "linen finish on the cards!" and stuff like that which this already has, so it's sort of like getting the first few fake stretch goals already...but it doesn't feel like it that's for sure :) Honestly this is why I like daily unlocks (even if just a card). It's an excuse to highlight what you unlocked in a post, have engagement each day and not fiddle around with fake goals all at the same time.

[@dannielfalcon-schneiderjr1140]

Been watching this game for a while, first Kicksarter I supported right off the bat full in. Although I was already drawn to the look and feel of the game. The story seemed unique and creative. I will say it certainly helped to watch your video and see some physical context. Fair review and very helpful.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Happy to hear you found a game you can really dig :D This game is super unique that's a huge plus :D

[@teoea]

Thank you for the video! I've been confused about Sheol for a while, but this video helped to, well... light up my path a bit :P Initially, I was drawn in by the theme and the look of it. Then this launched almost at the same time as HEL, and I'm a sucker for old Norse related themes, which made me hesitant for this one... However! The gameplay seems interesting, more than HEL's gameplay. I'd say my biggest concern right now is whether I can get it to the table with my gaming group. We might end up drowning in these 1-4 narrative/story co-op games by the end of 2021... ^^ Anyway, good job with the video!

[@TheKingofAverage]

That's the best compliment of all, to know my video was helpful so thank you! Very glad it helped (a bit) lol -> totally get that situation. IMO this actually as a leg up from the others simply because it is so different, and not a heavy story. Looking at their preview it seems the briefing and debriefing before a mission is about a page and the land event stories are just a paragraph or two in total so it might actually hit the table more since it doesn't have all of this "stuff" saved like the big campaign ones. Or perhaps not, really does depend on the group. That's something I still struggle with to this day. I like more games than my group does, and so I tend to be interested (and then back) games that end up not being a huge hit with the group. Having that realistic view is tough, but important I feel :)

[@paulb2474]

I really appreciate the plain and no spin review, that you constantly give. After looking at the reviews those models are so intricate and super tiny detail, do you think they will come out nearly as good as the rendering? At this point in time I would almost perfer stl files, in order to capture all the super tiny details..

[@DarthAramith]

Hey, KOA there is a typo in the video description, not sure if it matters or you care, or even how easy it is to fix. You wrote "hear" in the first sentence instead of "here."

[@TheKingofAverage]

Fixed, thanks for pointing that out! I was in such a rush to post the video as it was late that I published it without adding a description so I added that in super fast afterward >.

[@DarthAramith]

@@TheKingofAverage Not a problem, glad to help. Really enjoy your videos btw.

[@stephendavis7327]

What about the boss fights and city building? Does the prototype include any of those cards/mechanics? Do you think there is too much randomness?

[@HungryGamerReviews]

we did get to see how it works, but the demo did not come with a scenario to actually test them out. I spoke about it briefly in my review. The city building feels like a lighter KDM outpost portion, and the boss fights are epic. They are a little similiar to KDM there, in that you take away its attacks as you hurt it. Though it also has reaction cards that lets it hit you back, in addition to its attack cards

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yeah exactly. I could see the cards and such and did read them but ultimately didn't feel comfortable saying much about it in my review as I had no hands on experience with it.

[@WeAreSoPredictable]

99 minutes to go, and 105% funded. Looks like (short of some horrendous last-minute calamity) S.H.E.O.L. has actually made it! Time for some humble pie for me, because I just didn't think they'd push through and make it. Glad to be wrong this time. :)

[@Hewardrv8]

I really like this and considering a late pledge. The issue I seem to be having is replay ability. It looks more like a campaign then anything so I'm trying to see what replay ability would be like. Do you know if this is set up to play different scenarios within the game? Without actually following the campaign? In its current state I absolutely love the theme of this and all the minis they added etc! Any info you have on replay ability would be awesome!

[@michaeljoyce7548]

Thanks for the honest review. It was super awesome, and very balanced. I have been waiting for this one, wanting to know more. In the end it is just not grabbing me. The minis are nice. I really love the idea of building the city up. But at the end of the day, I have Aeon Tresspass, Oathsworn, Midarra, StormSunder, Arkeis and god knows what else coming. This looks good but the in the future competition for table time it just doesn't look like a contender.

[@TheKingofAverage]

I can understand that! This one plays a lot differently than those as well (which is both good and bad for many groups I think). I love having unique games like this available, but they don't always get the most play time (For instance Okko Chronicles plays way different from any other dungeon crawler, but as such just gets taken out when we fancy it).

[@adammorro2237]

Was hoping this would get posted...been looking at the kickstarter page trying to decide if I like it enough to back.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Sorry to keep you waiting! :)

[@adammorro2237]

@@TheKingofAverage I'd say perfect timing...can't really ask for anything better than day one of a campaign. I always check your channel on day one of kickstarters with miniatures to see if you have a review (even if watched previously).

[@chuck-n-debtaylor7553]

Excellent work as always!

[@TheKingofAverage]

Thanks so much! :)

[@yronic]

In a nutshell I get the impression from this video that it is just a matter of work on the citadel a bit, sped a while on the lightstream to get to a choose your own adventure mission that may have a basic combat then repeat (plus the monsters do their little gravity swirl stuff). How close am I with this? I was really sold on the storyline for this one but if it's mostly building the lightstream then reading a bit of text I'm not sure it's for me, but equally may just have not understood it right and am missing something.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yeah I'd say the single largest part of the game is the light stream since it feeds into both the tower defense as well as exploration. Interesting enough one of the highlights for me while playing it was actually how at odds those two often are. When going on a mission it'll send you out away from the citadel, which you need to protect or it's game over so you have to kind of balance it out and that can be done several different ways. For instance since the light stream can slow down enemies it can be used defensively as well so perhaps you just build up some walls and then all trek out to complete objectives or perhaps you split up and leave some to defend the city while you go out alone or with another. The thing I found is that thanks to the gravity system, they go from managable to holy crap there's too many pretty much every game so you're never super casual about your actions. Now sure it's strategic, but that's not for everyone either. I think it's easy to look at streamlined mechanics and feel a game is simple but that's not always the case, though you gotta have a taste for nuance among systems and not everyone is inclined to enjoy that :) Combat needs an upgrade though for my personal tastes to fully enjoy it, but I really enjoyed the rest.

[@yronic]

The King of Average wow thanks for such a detailed response. Best reviewer out there, you’re the only one I really follow.

[@toddcontino7271]

How would you say this game holds up today? Since what else has come out since then. I found one second hand and not sure if it’s worth the $ at this point in time. Would you still play it or is there something else that’s similar but better? Thank you!

[@Kryptonite_V]

I've been waiting for this! And KoA, will you do a Hel review? I hope you got a prototype oft Hel :)

[@Kryptonite_V]

@Allan Nielsen Thanks Allan. That sucks. After KoA's Reichbusters review, among others, I'm reluctant to back something from Mythic Games, even when it looks good.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yeah sadly they are claiming they can't provide any prototypes to reviewers and have none for themselves. They claim COVID but seeing as how they won't release the Tabletop sim they have and how Shoel and Wolfenstein sent prototypes just fine I call BS an think the COIVD thing is a cop-out for just not having anything prototype ready/made. Hel was originally panned for late this year and now suddenly it's here early and no prototypes around, go figure. A campaign without early reviews is a travesty from an established company IMO.

[@paulb2474]

@@TheKingofAverage Not having prototypes available for reviewers is a bit shady, and is making me think about dumping my initial pledge

[@TheKingofAverage]

Or even having reviewers play the tabletop simulator they have. Leads me to believe it's not highly playable yet.

[@nick13588]

@@TheKingofAverage Possibly rushing the campaign early to raise funds for some of their backlog, either way Hel will get plenty of backers just because its Mythic games as we know with CMON games as well people will buy in to the hype.

[@successfulgeek]

Been looking more into this game and it looks incredibly fun. The only thing I worry about is are their mini sculpts anywhere close to realistic for how the minis will actually look in mass production?

[@TheKingofAverage]

It depends on quite a few things. Some things certainly need to be thickened a bit but a lot of it matters more what material used. Most of these tendrils/connection points are no more smaller than many Batman miniatures from Monolith connected only at the toes to the base, or to many pole weapons in other games. Often these use ABS plastic to be more sturdy and it works well for that. If there was something that I saw simply not working at all I'd definitely voice my concerns with you guys :) Being a first time creator though always runs the risk (like Arena: The Contest) of them not putting the money necessary to make them nice, but everything here is possible with smart use of plastic and a bit of editing.

[@williammyles]

Thank nice review as always mate

[@TheKingofAverage]

Glad you liked it! :)

[@fredoblong]

Thanks for the video! Maybe I missed this but you explained the loss conditions somewhat, it didnt really come thru what the win condition(s) were. I assume unique missions? Eliminate the baddies and/or boss? Do the missions form a campaign that carries over? How many? And then the centerpiece...the citadel...is the only point to strengthen it?

[@TheKingofAverage]

Great questions! Win conditions change depending on the scenario. I actually aluded to this more in a bit I actually ended up cutting out and it was collateral damage :D For instance the mission I tested we needed to go to certain lands and do an action to search for someone. Then their location was discovered but also a Herald spawned so our new mission was to deal with the herald and then reach the mission marker to find the person/body we were looking for. My understanding is that for campaign all of your upgrades, cards, items and equipment carry over. No clue how many missions though (I think it said in my unboxing perhaps). The Citadel you can add "districts" with development points. Each district has a normal side and a passive side and you have to choose which version to build. For example one district allows for the use of "vertical prisons" that allow the citadel defenses to freeze 3 enemies in place. The passive side would do something else and you need to pick between the two. You can also use those development points to repair the Citadel between missions. Also along with the Citadel are the 3 factions. You can gain rep with them, usually by doing side objectives, and they have specific items and gear associated with them.

[@fredoblong]

@@TheKingofAverage Thanks KoA! Looks like there really is a number of layers to this to make it a puzzler while the actual actions you do a fairly simplistic. Not sure if that makes for a perfect mix but it is unique and interesting!

[@Vascariz]

Re combat, have you fought a boss yet? Seems like that's where the interesting combat mechanics come in?

[@TheKingofAverage]

No that wasn't functioning, however I'm more interested in player engagement and how it makes me feel. Rolling a dice to see the random outcome without anything else effecting it doesn't change depending on what you are shooting at. It's just "I want to hit that" *roll die* "I hit it" and that's it.

[@Vascariz]

@@TheKingofAverage haha k i was just asking if the boss fights are a step up or not.

[@TheKingofAverage]

From what I can tell yes, since the have more involved mechanics on their end :)

[@AdamuKuezada]

Would you personally back this and why/why not?

[@TheKingofAverage]

I currently am! The main thing I'm hoping for is some added "oomph" around combat so that my whole group enjoys all of it, instead of just a subset of it, but either way enough of us enjoyed it even without super exciting combat that It's a good purchase for me. If I had thought the game wasn't something I'd back you bet I'd have said exactly that :)

[@AresGameschannel]

@@TheKingofAverage I think that making combat a little more interesting, with one year of development ahead, is not too big a challenge. However I think it's important that there is not a lot to it, because combat is just a small part of the game,

[@TheKingofAverage]

oh I have faith they can and I hope they do. I would say it's kind of like the Justice League trinity (Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman) -> Sheol has the lightstream construction, combat, and story/exploration as it's trinity. Combat is certainly not the main focus and I'm okay with that, but defending the citadel is and fighting bosses is still a pretty big part of the game :)

[@BalkanBiker]

Did you get Hel review copy? I'm more interested in your opinion on that one (besides the bashing on the BGG forum :P)

[@TheKingofAverage]

Mythic Games is not providing any review copies for Hel. Take that information as you wish :)

[@BalkanBiker]

@@TheKingofAverage guess I'll wait for Nemesis then.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Certainly a more "sure fire" campaign for many I feel.

[@BalkanBiker]

Yeah, I have almost everything for Nemesis (missing space cats) and the game is tons of fun. I'm mostly a solo player though and Lockdown offers improved solo with an app. Hopefully even for the original game.

[@DSK2007]

Just a question. I’ve watched your wolfenstein and reichbusters not to long ago. Have you ever played Incursion?

[@TheKingofAverage]

I have not!

[@wishmeheaven]

Thanks, Michael. What are your thought about this game 3 years after uploading this video..? How often does this game hits your table..? (..if any)

[@bikeswithb8829]

Anddddddd I backed the project. Excellent review, thank you.

[@TheKingofAverage]

You are quite welcome, glad you found the video helpful! :)

[@stephendavis7327]

They are going to show the citadel cards tomorrow and they are working on giving their BGG page a facelift. I hope the backers keep coming like moths to a flame. Really, their campaign isn't structurally different than Etherfields, where funding was so low that it seemed like we wouldn't unlock the Lucid Dreams SG's. It took something like 20-25 days to do it. But over the long campaign, each pledge really added up. I wouldn't be surprised if SHEOL ends with 400k-500k, with a dozen SG's unlocked in the last 2-3 days. Their SG amounts are really reasonable.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Very true and so I'd consider this a big success! Not very many first timers hit something crazy like $1 mil and so many people see those big campaigns and think that's what success means. I still have faith. They are at a pretty good spot now and everyone there is very happy and wanting to help which is good!

[@gangamel5979]

I think the standee for the center area should just be flat instead.

[@AresGameschannel]

It really deserves to have that nice Citadel miniature in the middle :-)

[@TheKingofAverage]

Oh yeah laying it flat is definitely a possibility. If they want to show off the city miniature they know who to contact ;)

[@TheKingofAverage]

Hah! Wouldn't be the first time I was rejected :P

[@Chodor101]

For me it's a hard pass knowing that minis will be made of PVC, I don't see it working and knowing my luck every single model from my copy will be bent or broken... or both, but I'll grab some snacks and listen to your thoughts #notification squad

[@qsy190]

There's also a mostly-standees version. Core pledge. The many minis come in the Scout Pledge... I think?

[@Chodor101]

@@qsy190 That's true, and the reason why I'm still watching the review

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yay snacks! I'm sure they'll thicken where it's needed and PVC will actually help it not break here, but we'll see :)

[@Chodor101]

@@TheKingofAverage Thickening is kinda like buying the mystery box, it can look terrible, I'm also worried about the amount of the negative space. I really hope they'll pull it off but for me it's too big of a gamble, but it surely can turn out to be a great game :D

[@TheKingofAverage]

Very true! In general any first timer is a risk. Arena had no thin parts and still game out pretty poo poo at first.

[@Vascariz]

Really really hope they do not make combat more complex (maybe the bosses but def not the blips). I don't want this game to slow down into some generic tedious dungeon crawler where I have to roll 5 dice just to kill a bloody blip. The elegance of design and focus on city building, exploration, survival is what I enjoy.

[@TheKingofAverage]

So you view all the combat in the game as a chore you just want to get through as quickly as possible without much thought? Right now it lacks all strategy, it's mindless except for deciding what to attack. After picking out what you are attacking all other strategy is gone. I don't want nor asked for anything "tedious", just interesting, like the rest of the game. Ideally it's super streamlined and flows well with the other two main focuses of the game :)

[@e3ap-bg]

Great vid once more!

[@TheKingofAverage]

Thank you L. B.! Glad you liked it :)

[@nekochen]

Nice review! But, can you please group the positive and negative as you go through them in two categories? I like to find out the faults first before the good things influences my decision. I find myself jumping through your video trying to find all the minus (-) before I go back to the pluses (+). I appreciate you taking your time trying out the game for us.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Hmm, that might be a bit hard as others would probably want the opposite and so I'd still be in a spot where it's imperfect for someone regardless. In the end I try to allow them to flow naturally from one to the other as I can, while also not having a huge block of one or the other. What I'd worry about putting the negatives first is having 15 minutes of negative and people leaving assuming I hate the game because they didn't watch the 15 minutes of positives too (or vice versa). I get metrics on the average watch time and it's never even half the video (of any style video not just reviews). Anyway, perhaps in the future I can put some extra time into timestamping the various parts so at least there'd be that :) Hopefully my recent changes to showing the topic I'm talking about the whole time helps with the skipping around at least!

[@Vascariz]

@@TheKingofAverage do you find ppl tend to skip to the end? I think it's worth listing all +/- on a page at the end with time stamps as lots of ppl may skip to the "expecting" a final thoughts section as that's the format of most of p/reviews

[@TheKingofAverage]

I list all +/- at the end of each review including this one. Just need to add timestamps to it in the future so if you are skipping around (or simply want to go back and listen to a certain part) that'd be useful.

[@WeAreSoPredictable]

Sometimes I feel like The King of Average is the patron saint of doomed Kickstarters. :) It's great that you bring a lot of more minor or obscure Kickstarters to our attention, but it also makes me feel a little sad and sorry for all of the game developers whose projects fail. And, like anything bad in the world, sometimes I prefer burying my head in the sand and forgetting it exists!

[@TheKingofAverage]

HAH! Yeah I certainly love just following my passion. It of course means I highlight anything from the next blockbuster to the super indie attempts. For Sheol it's a bit of an odditiy, they had over 5,000 people clicking the "remind me" button and now there are multiple comments stating they were never notified so not sure the issue there. Whether they fund this time, or in a new attempt, I'm glad I could feature such a unique game :)

[@WeAreSoPredictable]

@@TheKingofAverage If their remind-me function failed, that sucks hard! Looks like one of those games that, even if it doesn't make it this time, will succeed with a few tweaks to the campaign next time and better timing (if that better timing ever swing around).

[@TheKingofAverage]

Agreed! From what I read, there were two preview links, one being empty, perhaps that has something to do it. Either way, totally agreed!

[@kwulfe]

I don't think they reach the funding goal. And they probably need more money than the 300.000 for these special miniatures. I am interested in this game in general but the combat system is too shallow.

[@stephendavis7327]

300k is a realistic funding goal and I am hoping it will garner much more than that. They've got a month. And I think they hinted at a combat system update forthcoming. The darkness has not won yet!

[@WeAreSoPredictable]

@@stephendavis7327 Unfortunately, at only about 40% funded 3 days in, it's not looking good at all, so I'd be surprised if they don't pull the plug in the next week or two and try again maybe later in the year or early next year. Otherwise, short of quickly giving much stronger incentives to back (like the promise of numerous future playable characters/miniatures on top of the 4 core ones), I don't see them gaining sufficient interest to rebuild momentum.

[@stephendavis7327]

@@WeAreSoPredictable idk, they seem committed to sticking it out. And we already got dual-layer lux vials as a social sg! It's a long campaign, I bet it will fund! And if they figure out the snafu that happened where like 5,000 backers didn't get notified, all the better.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yeah that notification is super weird. They had more people marked as wanting to be notified than Hel even, and then when comments started coming in saying they weren't notified it kind of makes a bit of sense. That being said, my review video here has that many views, and it's not converted to that many backers (though plenty did do so). I think in the end, people might have had some crazy expectations about the game based on the preview minis and to find it more of a puzzle like strategy/discovery game might not have hit home. Combined with a high funding goal, lots of PM's open for big name KS's, the notification thing, etc. I feel they were hit with a pretty perfect storm. I too still think they can fund and regardless I'm a HUGE supporter of keeping the KS going until the very end as it's a great way to get feedback, interact and still gain traction for a future campaign. Having an amped up combat system I think would seal the deal for many so hopefully they can do that!

[@dro_on_psn6095]

Great review as always. Sad to see this one's probly not gonna make it.

[@zst0rme700]

Not sure where you’re pulling that assumption. Usually the pushes are within the last week, when goal is reached, and last 24 hours. This game still has 16 days left

[@dro_on_psn6095]

@@zst0rme700 I mean yes this happens, but I have also seen many fail when the campaign goal is high like this for a new company/IP. I really do hope they make it.

[@BalkanBiker]

@@zst0rme700 the problem is that games that do not reach funding goal drop backers instead of gaining. And then there's Nemesis Lockdown in a few days. Unfortunately, Hel turned out to be a big one and another big one is just around the corner.

[@Vascariz]

Good idea about bundling actions for moves

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yeah for 3 at least it's super easy and I bet most will just track it in their heads.

[@ShelfClutter]

I may have missed it in the video but did this have any issues with fiddlyness??

[@HungryGamerReviews]

I did not find it fiddly. lots going on, but not particularly fiddly

[@ShelfClutter]

@@HungryGamerReviews Yeah I saw all those tiles and components and wondered. Thanks for the info!

[@TheKingofAverage]

I mentioned it when talking about moving, constructing, moving, constructing, moving, constructing and such. It can be a bit fiddly in that department, where we ended up just not moving those gems. It's easy enough to track 3 movement and 3 actions. As you expand to allow more actions/movement it might become necessary again, but that's really it. Everything else runs really streamlined, especially the gravity system.

[@ShelfClutter]

@@TheKingofAverage Ah found it at 27:27 Good to know! My ears don't work as well when I listen to these at work ;p

[@TheKingofAverage]

haha no worries at all :) Just glad I had ya covered!

[@ry7047]

Thanks for the review. Cancelling my pledge, game looked interesting at first but watching this helped me realize it is not for me.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Glad you found the video helpful! I've had plenty say no thanks and plenty say they now really want it which just means the video is helpful so happy about that :D

[@daodasbrot4817]

After I thought about it, I would compare Sheol more with Andor. Also an easy fighting system and a good puzzle, but of course the items and rules never promised more.

[@TheKingofAverage]

oh I never played Andor, but that's interesting! I'll take a look :)

[@DieNische]

I have not watched this video yet (of course). But my main reason not to back Sheol is the horrible combat system that is shown in the previews. Seriously? A 1D6 combat mechanic in 2020? Really bad design choice in my opinion especially with a market fully crowded with amazing concepts. Talking about concepts: Sheol seems too ambitious and I cannot identify in which way this game should surpass other games at all when we talk about every module. The castle defense Module for example seems to be very weak and static in comparison to the behemoth that is Planet Apocalypse. :)

[@TheKingofAverage]

Hah! We mentioned the same thing :) I'd love to see them beef up the combat a bit, but as it stands it's like Great Wall from Awaken Realms. It has lots of combat, but it's definitely not the focus.

[@scaar5128]

If they can enchance the combat system it would be nice. I don't need flanking or other combat related rules but 1 die + base damage ... that's not enough.

[@stephendavis7327]

I'm thinking of Sheol like a challenge mode in a video game wrapped in a campaign. Combat is only part of a big puzzle.

[@Vascariz]

This is NOT a dungeon crawler, combat simulator... It's a city building, exploration survival game. I'm really hoping they don't make the combat tedious and time consuming like the 100 other KS dungeon crawlers released each month...

[@TheKingofAverage]

Oh totally agreed I don't want it to take a lot of time. I'm very big on swift combat resolution. I think simply adding the ability to "pump up attacks" (while lowering base damage to compensate) would go a long way and add almost no time. Currently combat isn't much of a strategic decision process. Do you fight and if so do you overload? That's it. Adding another factor in there would be nice, and the die results would make it a bit more engaging/exciting with almost no cost to time before resolution :) Having straight forward and mostly deterministic combat is fine, but it will fail to win over people who require that in their games (like some of my group).

[@StevenAPowers]

This one does not seem to interest me. I'm not really sure why.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Probably theme, or focus on the lightstream placement? It's a different genre than I normally cover, and the theme is very in y our face so if it's not something you really like I can see that not being a hit. For me, the moment I found out the moon was raining tears of darkness onto the Earth I was pretty much guaranteed to look further lol

[@StevenAPowers]

@@TheKingofAverage I actually like the art but I'm not convinced that the gameplay loop is even fun.

[@Babyboyo1]

I felt that way at first until I learned about the lore of the game. I think that is a major reason why people aren't rushing to back this. They really needed to do a better job of explaining the lore behind the game. When I first saw this video, I didn't "get it". Why is there light beams being used to create the path? Then I learned about the story and backdrop. I initially just passed this game because the miniatures of the game seemed so horror and weird. I didn't look further. Then I looked deeper the other day and I really fell for the game. I don't think KOA needed to explain the lore deeper. I think this is the job of the game publisher/designer. Even on their Kickstarter, they should have done more than the opening video on the page explaining the lore. The lore is what really sells this game. Hearing about Lux and Herald's means literally nothing to most people as these are terms central to the lore of the game.

[@aonline_abridged]

@@Babyboyo1 I am the same. Ultimately I am not into the space marines/sinewy looking horror characters...not sure how to explain it but in the end although unique, it is not the type of unique that calls to me. If raving reviews come after delivery, I will consider it again on the reprint.

[@AnkitGarg]

Thanks KoA for the review. Sad that they didn't send you the center piece :-( I was hyped about this game, but it is pricey so I'm out. I probably would've backed for $1 and if shipping to India was not too high I might've bought it. But minimum pledge to get access to PM is also £3 which is too much IMO. The price makes me wonder how Limbo managed to give away such HUGE minis for $90 EB pledge.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yeah I don't care for the minimum pledge decision (though some PM's charge per backer so if you have a bunch of $1 ones it tends to actually cost you if they don't convert to full pledges). Limbo ran on a low profit margin, opting instead to just try and establish themselves as a board game company similar to what Oathsworn did. Inherently more risky, but can really pay off for consumers if it works out. Lunar Oak is taking a much more cautious and safe route with a higher minimum pledge and high funding goal. Still a valid way to start out for sure.

[@TheErnieforss]

it reminds me of Star Trek panic, but the next step to what it should become. (i haven't played Castle Panic, but i would assume it would be the same) Like it would be called Castle Panic Adventure, and you won't be stuck inside the castle or ship. I would like to see what the boss fight would be like? I know games like Arkham Horror 2nd edition the main game was totally different from the boss fight. I didn't really like those boss battles. It felt like i was just rolling dice for the hell of it. While games like Cthulhu Death may die, the boss fight works great with the main game. Or better example is Big Trouble in Little China, both main game and boss fight felt different but still great.

[@TheKingofAverage]

So I read the rules of it but wasn't able to really test it out. The Bosses are neat as they have smarter AI and reactionary actions and you wear them down by removing their cards, so their attack options which is neat. Sadly you doing that still involves that same combat where you just roll a single die which is a bummer. Hopefully that's updated somewhat as I think this whole boss thing is a killer feature if they nail it right.

[@MichaelJones-ti9fx]

Thanks for the in-depth review. I watched a couple other reviews where the person liked the game. However, it looked incredibly boring. Your presentation makes it seem better.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Glad my video helped a bit for you then! :)

[@cath_paluc701]

@Michael Jones @The King of Average I think I watched the same review. I've been following the development and really liked the videos from Lunar Oak Studio but fell asleep watching another review. KOA's description of a puzzle exploring game with lots of differences in the player characters is reassuring that it will be liked at my table.

[@zerosdeath]

Koa How dare you give honest reviews! Did they mention addons per chance?

[@TheKingofAverage]

I've heard no mention of add-ons, but boss packs and such are certainly possible!

[@AresGameschannel]

@@TheKingofAverage The Creator mentioned some add-ons in the preview period, but not a lot (they mentioned all-in pledge should be 199)

[@TheKingofAverage]

That's an awesome price point!

[@zerosdeath]

Damn King. There goes my money! @Ares ty!

[@robertpapancsev8891]

Why is this so expensive? 97usd for the core game with standees...Its like half the Oathsworn(standee version) content for the same price .

[@stephendavis7327]

Idk, the price seems reasonable to me. They are developing a very high-end game with an advanced insert. Normally that's an extra $70 or so on top of the game price. And it takes a lot to properly develop a game. Heck anything nowadays is $80 retail with basic inserts.

[@robertpapancsev8891]

@@stephendavis7327 Well I dont know looks overpriced for me, but also looks to have a nice design for sure. I was expecting lower price for a standee version. Also 300K founding goal might be reasonable for them but its very high, so no SG's to unlock.

[@TheKingofAverage]

My thoughts on this are that first and foremost it's a matter of scale. Cardstock does not become much cheaper with bulk, but the deal you get for an entire order can, and of course even small profit margins add up in scale. If Oathsworn is expecting to sell 10,000 copies, they can get a better rate with the manufacturer than a small scale job. Additionally, and I know this having spoken with Shadowborne Games, Oathsworn was a risky KS in that it had almost no profit margin at all and didn't actually become profitable until it was a runaway success. That is certainly one way to start out as a company, trying to do an incredible deal to get your foot in the door, but I don't view it as a bad thing if other new companies don't take such risks and instead play it a bit safer. Considering Sheol's funding limit I assume Lunar Oak is taking things very safe and cautious to ensure minimal risk, which is understandable. Oathsworn was almost literally a "steal" but not quite fair to assume others can or should match that. Finally there's overall cost of development. For the most part Oathsworn was done by 2 guys and an artist. There's very low overhead there. The team at Shadowborne is larger and therefore it costs more even if the same amount of development time was put into it. I'm sure there's a ton of other stuff involved that I am either overlooking or simply don't have line of sight on, but that's my 2 cents at least :D

[@robertpapancsev8891]

@@TheKingofAverage Your answer is very insightfull and I understand and agree on some degree. However I am looking from a simple buyer perspective who walks in the shop and look around what game to buy. I dont care manufacturing cost, etc. Everyone is running its own business as he wants, take risk or not, its their decision. I just look on what I get for what money, thats simple it is. I wont analyze how they run their business if I want a game. Maybe oversimplifying, but if you want a shoe you decide on color, comfortability and price. You dont care its expensive because Nike is using a safer strategy than Adidas.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Oh totally agree there! At the end of the day what matters is what you get and what it costs you. Was just trying to explain the variance a bit (as I find this sort of things interesting lol).

[@rogueninja185]

Terrible camera angle and light, barely saw any details. Thanks for the video. The game is amazing gameplay wise, tons of repalyability. Thematically is really unique. It s like a Blame manga Dungeon crawler/Defense tower game. Im hooked. I cant find anywhere when is this game supposed to be delivered. Can you give me any details?

[@stevekozlowski5963]

Thanks for the review. I actually canceled my pledge after watching this. Even though your review was mostly positive, I just don't think I'd enjoy the game play. I like tower defense games, but this one just isn't grabbing me for some reason

[@TheKingofAverage]

No skin off my back, no one needs backers that would just end up not liking the game so glad it helped you make an informed decision :)

[@VincentBalmont]

to be honest I don't see a difference between 1 or 3 dice. mind u I haven't played many games, but imperial assault and legion it just seems more math for same results. the dice has a hit and a crit, and u can use light to overload, and cards for defense

[@TheKingofAverage]

d/3rd of what you just said is not present in Sheol and that's the thing, it doesn't have to be drastically different to make it actually strategic and interesting.

[@VincentBalmont]

The King of Average I watched a playthrough, and they were overcharging the weapons by spending extra lux with a chance of damaging the weapon, and using cards as defense

[@OddGamesNews]

This game lost me in the battle system. Sorry but for a 2020 game this is a shame. Hope that the creators improve this on final version.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yeah that's the one area I'd like to see them improve on. Everything else is really solid.

[@Vascariz]

game designers are looking into the combat based on feedback so that's a step in the right direction

[@warpaint9385]

Don’t think this ones getting funded, it’s moving along quite slowly.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Perhaps, but I think it's still possible. over 40% with another 25 days to go and still some add-ons not shown yet.

[@holysmoke8439]

cameras too far to see

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yeah this was in 4k until I hit a snag with my hard drive, had to "dumb it down" to 1080 which hurt a bit. Agreed about the camera though, still trying to find that sweet spot! Perhaps I can get a two camera setup soon :)

[@CheddahSlammer]

What's funny is their has to be a balance between the simple combat and the more complicated combats, a lot of these games now ether do to much, or like in this you just roll a dice.

[@CheddahSlammer]

@Transcendence Zen Thanks its one of my favorite games

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yeah striking that balance is key. I think the goal should be to allow more strategic engagement in combat while retaining swift combat resolution. So have the strategy come up front, but in the end don't do a ton of dice rolls or something like that. Considering the game has an entire "boss battle" system I think it's only fair to want the combat to "feel" really good.

[@CheddahSlammer]

@@TheKingofAverage Yeah exactly

[@CheddahSlammer]

@Transcendence Zen Well the company that made Nox, was bought out by activision, so were probably never getting another one sadly.

[@CheddahSlammer]

@Transcendence Zen True that

[@flex2themax]

This was not what I expected after all the hype. Seems way more fiddly than anticipated. I love the theme, but feels like I would have to try very hard to like the gameplay, which definitely looks 'unique', but mediocre.

[@stephendavis7327]

I'm curious why you think it seems mediocre. If it's the combat, I think they hinted about an update coming soon regarding it.

[@DireMcCann]

Hey! If you could only back one, Sheol or Hel?

[@stephendavis7327]

I think we need a cage match video!

[@Vascariz]

They aren't even in the same genre... comparing a city building, tile laying exploration survival game vs a generic dungeon crawler?

[@TheKingofAverage]

Sheol easily. Both are high in theme but only one of the games has prototypes and reviews from 3rd parties out. That and my prototype of Sheol was written better than anything Mythic has ever delivered as a final product. I'm in for a dollar for Hel in case Solomon Kane fixes that issue.

[@Aodyri]

@@TheKingofAverage ouch. Of course Solomon Kane isn't supposed to start first wave fulfilment until August/September. Add-ons and SGs next year. So you won't be looking at Hel?