Shifter: Hip to be Square?

I know for some of you I might seem like a good photographer. While I've won my share of photo-battles over the years I would never self-assign that title. Doing so just feels wrong. I started my career in journalism where the 35mm ruled the day, and rightly so. The life of a news photographer is unpredictable on a good day. But over time I began to see the work of other photographers I respected and began to wonder why they chose to work in varying formats, like 6x6 for example. This prompted me to begin to explore. And again, I won a few battles but lost many more. What happens when it doesn't work? Do we cry and quit or factor in the defiance and start anew? There are several takeaways from this film. One, things don't always work. Two, there might be other options. Three, you have to make YOUR image or over time your love of this game will diminish. (I've seen this happen countless times.) So keep plugging.

[@iraaikman]

Best video I’ve seen about photography yet. I can’t stop binge watching your videos since I found them. It’s changing the way I am thinking about photography. Derivative crap…the loop I’ve been stuck on. Started journaling a personal project this week for the first time. Making photographs without touching a camera, resisting the urge to shoot and share…actually thinking of what kind of photo I want to make and see rather than what might fit into someone else’s idea of a thumbs up…all dumb. Thank you, it’s like a beam of light breaking through some kind of underground bunker I’ve been trapped in for years with just myself and an Instagram feed for company. Thanks for taking the time to create these films Dan, for total strangers that you’ll never meet but who will be impacted by the insights you offer.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Wow, how nice of you. What a wonderful comment. Glad you are finding something of value.

[@mike747436]

Long story short....it's damn hard to take an original and compelling photo. Best advice I know is; shoot whatever moves you and keep at it for a long time. With any luck images that reflect who you are will start to reveal themselves. I'm a work in progress.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

We all are. We take our lumps.

[@abraxamovic]

Huey Lewis reference? Hahahaha, love it! Great film

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Man, in the 80s he got as much play as anyone.

[@thespecialist6831]

The amount of knowledge and reality I get from your Channel never ceases to amaze me. The first time I watched one of your videos you said something I didn’t agree with, but I know enough to ask myself why would I know any better? I shoot a lot of 6 x 6 using a Mamiya 6 and I almost always don’t like it. But I keep trying. I am just a amateur so for me it’s all fun but I really get a lot out of the videos you make so thank you for keeping the truth bombs coming.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

That's a great camera so just keep plugging. Ask yourself why you don't like it.

[@leokhiwi]

I feel a strong connection with: “wow I think I am improving”...but, mistakes are ok, so I will keep plugging and less posting. Thanks for sharing. And also thanks for all the replies. I think I got a reply on all of my comments so far...you are indeed growing your community 1 at a time.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I can't do this without commenting. It just feels wrong, like a one way street.

[@kiremarinceski1036]

It’s ok not to like your own pictures. Sometimes I don’t like my pictures I have taken in the past . In my opinion they are great. They are 100% better of what we have been seeing on Instagram this days. Over saturated, over processed images with millions of likes! That’s why I m not waisting my time on social media. I enjoy my photography, I print all my work, and I stay away from latest and greatest gear! Keep up your good work!

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Most of what photographers do doesn't work. Always been this way. It's recognizing when it's not working and making corrections or just starting over. Today we see folks marketing regardless of quality.

[@macallanvintage]

If you understand Japanese, Korean, Tagalog and other Asian Oriental language and go into YT to explore these non-English photography channels, they are “night vs day” compared to English-based gear-centric channels mostly created by unemployed Western “photogearologists” and not genuine photographers, who would create any type of video that can bring in a bit of $$$$ for themselves. And many appear to be suffering from mental illnesses. Dan, you’re totally different, and thats great👍. A real professional from the old world, who’s been employed by photography-related big companies. Very different. And I deeply respect that.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Great point. And I can see examples of this in my head.

[@ratgirl13]

You had me at ‘Alright, you jackals.’ I wouldn’t be bothered by your helmet hair, my own hair being gnarly as a rat’s nest-hence my name. Subscribing for more of your awesome content. Btw: I made a color photograph of the Cyclone. So iconic. 😏

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

There is good, bad hair and then there is just bad hair. I fall into this second category.

[@pablotenkara3057]

About a year ago I started to shoot less and write more. The mamiya naturally guided me into that. I am currently using a notebook with a lot of drawings. Not what the picture is or was, but how the next picture will be. Pictures come and go, but real pictures, if they come, can make one’s journey meaningful. And yes, since we don’t know if we are going to get there, enjoying the process seems the right thing to do.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Writing is SO important. The more time you spend around artists, outside of photography, the more you realize you need to learn. And for me, this time reminds me of how sterile much of photography has become. Writing can help widen the gap from snapper to photographer.

[@yccmo]

This is the first time I saw a video made by You and I wanted to say thank you. I'm a music producer and I heavily empathize with your points in the vid and took away many lessons from it regarding creative work. I produce a lot for other people and struggle with questions like that on a weekly basis. Thanks so much. Subscribed. On to your other vids.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Thanks Bud. Welcome.

[@barkiple]

Congratulations on 10K!!!

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Ha, I noticed that. Not sure what it means. Does this mean I can say I ran a 10k?

[@markuslarjomaa3122]

I don't really know whether this is a photography lesson or a stand-up comedy set, but I think it's both and just enjoyed the video.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I like that. I'll take it. What is life without humor.

[@SMydland]

I enjoyed this vid alot. This stuff is great

[@mvonwalter6927]

In my short music career I kept trying to start a project with a seasoned touring guy over and over again and he laid down the best wisdom: "you got to go through the suck before you get the good stuff". This wasn't meant as a you got to pay your dues cliché. But that sucking was part of the process. No matter where you were. So don't loath the suck so much that you never do anything. Just enjoy or at least cope with the suck.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

The suck shows you the borders. Of both your project and your talent. They both change but to his point, the suck is a very useful thing.

[@fellowcitizen]

I think I've just realised that you are the torchbearer for the Beat Generation.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Man, talk about influence. Those folks were legends. I have a long-term project idea about Burroughs. Something I will never actually do but it's a good idea.

[@hoagyguitarmichael]

Thanks for being so brutal in your self-assessment. I need to start culling and it is inspiring.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I was fortunate. Grew up in a time when people didn't have to be nice. So, I learned when something wasn't good enough. Culling feels good.

[@hoagyguitarmichael]

@@DANIELMILNOR505 Grew up in NYC so I get it

[@thickrebel6493]

loved your thoughts, thank you.

[@ricardodafonseca9043]

Interesting video Daniel. Also interesting is that I make a lot of images similar to the ones you don't like. Maybe because there's not really a plan. Just shooting for my own fun. Not on Insta or anything. Just for me.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

And hey, what works or doesn't work for me might work for someone else. I am story driven so everything I work on is part of a central theme. Those first images that did work were part of a four year project. Just one small chapter of a much larger piece.

[@loneshootr]

Enjoyed this a lot, thanks.

[@19robinp]

We could also name it "A body of didn't work".

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Spot on. Or in modern terms, "epic fail?"

[@artsilva]

I am proudly a 40 year photo amateur who has successfully dabbled in photojournalism, some wedding and event work. My mindset I have developed is that everything I try no matter how original I think it is Has been done before, and every Awesome image I have created in my own mind is insignificant to everyone else. I continue to shoot because I am still trying to find "my" genuine originality or look all the while knowing it only matters to my passion and nobody else. I look at all these new instagram/KZbin minded so called "professionals" [excluding present company of course], all I do is shake my head because they are only working for Others and not themselves and most likely have no originality that they can call their own. It's a cookie-cutter industry now and it is up to us to not fall into that degrading trap and show that photography can still be a personal art form..

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

This is precisely why I try to avoid most of the industry discussion now. It's astounding the conformity, lack of original ideas, ego and phony aspects that permeate the discussion. Still some great work being made but I find it later on when the book arrives.

[@saxmangeoff]

A great rant with a good moral of the story. Awesome stuff.

[@robinbhairam7508]

Any chance of a short explaining why don’t miss the PJ industry please? …

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Sure, I could also add it to the next Q&A.

[@ThisIsWideAngle]

Why is the head not heating up? Because wool isolates just like it does with keeping your body heat when it´s cold.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

My head is on fire.

[@sbhopper8511]

I make a point of not opening KZbin, but there are a few people I follow for whom I will jump on here and try to influence the algorithm. (For anyone rolling their eyes....1) understandable 2) tongue-in-cheek 3) I had a bourbon. But I did really enjoy this video. I think there's a lot of hard learned wisdom here.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Hmmmm, bourbon.......good move.

[@johngskewes]

Thanks Dan. I'll share a few aphorisms becasue your good talk stirred up the sediment. -Failure is the process. -You have to produce to evolve. -You have to get out often enough to hit the good days (a whip I used to flog myself during the cycling years - not sure which I liked more, the beating or the biking.) Thank you!

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Being hard on oneself is okay, but taking it too far doesn't help anyone. Learned that the hard way.

[@kevinarmstrong3415]

Your critique of your ''bad' photos brought to mind the book Camera Lucida by Roland Barthes, page 32. Have you read it? If not I recommend it.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I have but it's been a LONG time.

[@ChristineWilsonPhotography]

Love those first bike photos and the ground in focus with person out of focus b4 the Freak shot . And the last shot

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I was happy with those too. I get lucky from time to time.

[@RichardSilvius]

As I dip my toe farther into documentary photography, it's amusing how often my own bungling aligns with the advice in your videos. It's like I'm learning each lesson twice. Once the hard way, and again from your videos (yes, it seems I inevitably do the dumb thing BEFORE watching the video). Recently photographed Feria de las Flores in Medellin. I thought it would look really great with Portra film... so I shot it on Portra 160 and 800 with a Pentax 67... but - because I wasn't totally confident in myself to shoot film, I used my digital Fuji kit in parallel with that. I can now see how dumb that was. I saw my contact sheets yesterday and ugh... everything sucked. I felt so dumb. Managing all that gear, changing film constantly, etc... all just very distracting. I'm not a good enough photographer that I can afford to be distracted. Overall, a very discouraging effort but a powerful learning experience as well.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Cliche alert...less is more. That Pentax with 105mm....Portra 400 rated at 200. Notebook for writing down conversation and details. We all learn the hard way so don't feel bad.

[@neilgenower9950]

No effort is a waste, knowledge can only be achieved through learning from ones errors......find a small project, then use DM's advise

[@RichardSilvius]

@@neilgenower9950 Agreed! I've gotten over the initial disappointment of seeing the contact sheets. And there actually were a few semi-decent photos in there. The goal was to do a mini project from start to printed finish - and I still plan on doing that, even if the results end up being meh. Like you said. Learning from my mistakes!

[@john_murch]

The stuff (s**t) I do with my Hasselblad. Makes no sense. But I like it!...Also never shown publicly...yet!

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Build it up then release it like water from a dam

[@john_murch]

@@DANIELMILNOR505 Thank you sensei.

[@martinlawrence8427]

Awesome lesson Dan!

[@photom3]

I’ll speak for me, I’m pretty much in a narrow groove and occasionally as I get better, the grooves move.

[@photom3]

I’m glad there are no tips and tricks.

[@carlosgastelum8251]

I kinda disagree with the Cyclone picture... I would prefer to shoot it and not use it, than coming up with a story later and realizing I needed that image as a establishing shot.. just my 2 cents

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Ahh, you and I are from the same school. But let me turn this around on you just for fun. What if I no longer want an establishing shot? Or anything that resembles a classic essay? Now my eyes are crossed.

[@discojelly]

I still grapple with the thought of Robert Cappa on the beaches of Omaha with a twin reflex square format camera as part of his kit.. I wish those images made it to print I would have loved to see what that looked like. But I also can't imagine shooting a reloading a twin reflex camera under those circumstances.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I can't even imagine being on that beach at all let alone taking fire and still shooting. I would have been on the boat posing with my scarf.

[@syrcular]

Been enjoying sifting through your various videos. Really great thought and advice! Thanks for sharing your valuable insights. One question. When did you add Sony to your kit, and what do you primarily use it for? (Let me know if this was a question asked before and which video you might have answered this in, if it’s been already asked)

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Have not done the Sony film yet but will. I was asked by someone I can't deny. And I'll explain it all. I'm very happy with it.

[@swansheath]

The resonance of your words is deafening to me... I kinda reached this conclusion maybe forty years ago. I realised that the vast majority of pro photographers were simply paying bills by shooting material in which they had little "real" interest. This process simply erodes away the passion. I only wanted to capture my own images, but knew that very few pro photographers truly manage to make ends meet by shooting exactly what they choose. It was not for me as a career pathway. My passion for photography would suffer... in a way not dissimilar to a sex worker whose libido is jaded when getting home from work.

[@neilgenower9950]

This is exactly my experience......as a photographer, I hasten to add :)

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Ya, it's true. Money work. Almost all photographers I know are doing it. A balance. The better they are the more chance they have of doing their own thing but it's actually getting much harder to do this.

[@CalumetVideo]

It seems we often duplicate the work of the legends, Henri Cartier-Bresson, William Eggleston and Vivian Maier to name a few. I think it’s important to create something new and be creative in our photography. Yes, the greats were good, especially in their day, but we see so much of the duplication in modern work. Have to agree that journalism has changed over the last 30 years. I did journalism here and there in the early 90’s through 2016. Today, the emphasis is on photos, where it used to be based on photography and writing skills.

[@brandonpickett8920]

I totally get what you’re saying and I agree, but, there’s also a part of me that can’t help but wonder, is there anything original that can still be done? Or our we just trying to be original as only possible? I think the way to be original is focus on “what” you are shooting more than your photographic style. Just a thought

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Plenty of original out there. Endless actually. I'm working on something now I guarantee not one person has seen or read.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

For me, duplicating was my greatest fear. I knew from day one I had to find my own voice. What I didn't know was it would take me fifteen years of shooting before I found it.

[@brandonpickett8920]

@@DANIELMILNOR505 oh I definitely know there’s originality! I kinda think the originality is more in the content/narrative rather than the aesthetic if you get what I mean. That might be part of the problem in photography? Maybe people are too focused on trying to have an original aesthetic instead of coming up with an original story. My work definitely isn’t original, not even close. I’m still working that out lol.

[@DanScott1]

@@phiswe It's exactly that, well said.

[@JamesClark1991]

Was really interesting to see some of your "bad" photos Dan.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Oh, I've got plenty where those came from.

[@streets28mm]

So true about urban abstract!☺️

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

An epidemic. I have a hard time even looking at it now.

[@andrewgulland8012]

What Blad?...Never! Rolleiflex forever!

[@jonathanrhall43]

Square doesn't have to be slow if you use a Mamiya 6. Ok, it is a bit bigger than an M6, but the ergonomics are the same. No messing about with waist level finders and upside-down/backwards images in the viewfinder. Just raise the camera focus and shoot!

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

A 6 is faster than the Blad but not nearly as fast as a 35. I assisted for someone who used the 7 and all I did was load and reload as fast as I could.

[@jonathanrhall43]

@@DANIELMILNOR505 Fair point. I hadn't thought about it from that point of view.

[@chrispickett6069]

Great vid Dan, timely too I just got a Bronica SQ - sadly could not afford a Blad ....it is what it is

[@iNerdier]

Not about the camera, it’s about what you point it at.

[@chrispickett6069]

@@iNerdier of course - I been doing it long enough to know that ;)

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Those are great too. Enjoy it!

[@davidabarak]

Portraits alone as a documentary project, (mostly) groan. I see some photographers with the biggest agencies doing that and it baffles me. There's no real work needed, in my opinion. Nothing to grab the audience by the... mmm... eyeballs. One portrait is usually like the next one. No need to go through the whole body of work. About formats, I'm one of those that has no problem with cropping so any story I'd put together would likely have a variety of aspect ratios. Done right the mix could work. Then again I may still have a little too much newspaper ink running through my veins.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I've seen the portrait thing done well but most of them fall a bit flat. It's more than the portrait that makes the series.

[@kalengankonge6763]

LMAO!!! Yeah, those Coney Isalnd shots were terrible and cheesy as hell🤣🤣🤣🤣 but those first 3 shots, my goodness!!!! They are pure gold🔥🔥🔥. Taking alot of cheesy images is where I'm at the moment and I realise and accept that🙈😂🙈😂🙈 Thanks for your honesty Daniel. It is appreciated.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Cheesy works at times. Getting something good eases the pain.

[@borderlands6606]

I recognise the instant project, and its name was The Environmental Portrait. Nothing wrong with portraits, even environmental ones, but there were a lot of quick turnover exhibitions and books that shouldn't have seen the light of day.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Yep. What I would call average, derivative work based on prior success of the model. Same for urban, abstract landscape. Like nails on a chalkboard for me. Detached.

[@ianf8554]

Dan, would the freak shot not work as a sleeve cover of a reissue of Chic’s Le Freak - naturally with the addition of a photoshopped ‘Le’ in the top corner?

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Maybe. There ARE uses for that image for sure. I just didnt' like the series as I knew it wasn't me.

[@neilpiper9889]

I use a 1957 Yashica Mat with a 75mm 3.5 Lumaxar lens. Tri x and Rodinal. I like that when the film is hanging up drying all the images are the right way up. Mamiya 6 negs are sideways, I get a crick in my neck. It's unnatural

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

film drying......oh. man, that's a language in itself.

[@gui4j]

Would be boring if we everything we did was perfect ! .. the journey not the destination is the important part !!, .. u learn more from your mistakes than your successes.. focus on evolving , relax and breath , you are were you need to be …

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I'm in a mess that is my mind.

[@gui4j]

@@DANIELMILNOR505 to which the DL would respond double your meditation 🧘🏽…

[@gui4j]

Series question time and you could maybe put this in your one of your blar blar videos , if you like do you think you state of mind is reflected in the images you take .. ? Eg for example if you are rushed or pissed of , do u think you miss the opportunity to take a better image , as opposed to being calm and collected , or in one of the moments you have felt threaten or in danger how has that impacted on your ability to get the shot ? Maybe 2 slightly different questions there , sorry !!… or does your state of mind not affect what you are trying to capture?

[@DanScott1]

@@gui4j The trick is to lose/quiet your mind, and be present to allow YOU in. Then the photos just line up for you. Otherwise it's all mind reflected in the photo which mostly means average and forced as you state. Your comment reminded me of something I must do... on another chanel I've not even started yet, and yes, photoraphy. Thank you.

[@thomassantomartino7337]

You know, I think you should be content with the degree of success you've had in your career. Many of us can't even aspire to your level if fame. Be happy in that.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I never actually really thought about success. But I'm an oddball. I never even walked to talk money with clients. Not a good path when one is making a living with this stuff.

[@neilgenower9950]

" My portfolio is not mine"......I've never actually realised how true that is. I have a huge 'body of work' (can I use that term not being fine art photographer)? but none of it am I the least bit inspired and interested in. I should have quit photography years ago, but I had people commissioning me and I had bills to pay, but I felt like a TV repairman. I do realise you have to be very privileged to be able to earn a living by taking pictures YOU chose and not what someone else has told you to take. It's an interesting turn of phrase you use though: How many photographers out there actually have a portfolio or a pixolio if you will, that has pictures they feel they own? I certainly don't, and it's a few decades long. One day I'll make a 'Body of work' and I'll be able to own it.......If only the years of shooting for cash hadn't left me somewhat overexposed. See Jim Robertsons' post !

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Paying the bills with camera. that changes everything. It's why I always ask people "You sure you want to do this?" Working as a professional certainly does not look like what most make it appear on social media. I find it hilarious. The phony folks acting like pros. Most of the time it's a grind.

[@neilgenower9950]

@@DANIELMILNOR505 It is a grind. The internet and You Tube can lure you into a cosy photo space, cool coffee and free to air musak. Only Friday I shot some portraits to promote a TV show for the BBC. I had five minutes, no space, no assistant, then the talent wants photo approval, then they want you to retouch all the approvals, then they want you to upload all the RAW files too (yeah, me too)? Then they want it now....this whole process sucks the life out of any creativity. Ask yourself the question; Do I want to be boxed in with my work or do I want the freedom to express?? Think twice before commiting to a profession that's increasingly difficult to sustain, both in financial terms and artistic.

[@wallywo7392]

Thanks Daniel another excellent video, couldn't agree more with your opinions. I would like to ask your opinion on digital photography magazines/books. Of course books and print are better that's a no brainer, but sometimes the cost is prohibitive, or they might out of print and rare. Additionally there are the environmental issues to consider for publication, post etc. Therefore can you recommend and digital photography books and magazines to subscribe to and will AG23 remain solely in print or will we be able to download it for us living further afield in UK? Loving the channel thanks for your hard work.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Good question. I don't know of any digital photography magazines because I don't really ingest work that way. I'm sure they are out there, however. AG23 is in web form but not digital magazine form. The site changes when the contributors want to add something new.

[@wallywo7392]

@@DANIELMILNOR505 Thanks Daniel, have a great day.

[@splootan]

Great stuff! Do you only shoot film?

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Nah, shoots tons of digital.

[@marklevine1100]

I think you were a little too hard on the Ferris wheel through the fence picture. With the right picture on a facing page in a spread it could have worked pretty well!

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I can't do it Mark.....I'll burst into flames and the book will burn up....

[@marklevine1100]

@@DANIELMILNOR505 Someday you might just make the right picture to go with it and it'll all make sense. There's a lid for every pot.

[@jpmcgarrell9592]

“I will serve no fries, before their time.”

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Wha'ts your secret sauce? Ketchup and mayonaise

[@johnmitchell6919]

Maybe you should rename your channel 'Therapy with Dan'. Thanks for the challenges to conventional 'wisdom, the encouragement to do work that satisfies yourself and for doing so in a way that makes me laugh. Keep it up sir.

[@ghosttownsentinel5288]

More like, 'Therapy FOR Dan'. It's his channel and like he said, he likes to do whatever he likes to do. That's gotta be therapeutic 🙂

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I don't think I need therapy which is probably why I need therapy.

[@gregsg01]

You were an Instagram photographer before there were Instagram photographers!

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

How ironic. Such a strange world we have.

[@tipsychicken9511]

“Say blad again…”🤦🏼

[@arneheeringa96]

Focus is fine and thank goodness the glasses aren't reflecting.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I'm hiding my bloodshot eyes....

[@arneheeringa96]

@@DANIELMILNOR505 well as the glasses don't reflect the sunlight into the camera they don't distract from your interesting essay. Perfect!

[@ThomKurve]

That was good.

[@andreasstein421]

I wonder you will say to this body of video work in a few years... 🤔😅

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Probably not much. Not sure where I'll be. Maybe off grid clutching the last vaccine does for variant "Z."

[@tangyorange6509]

SHIFTER MEDIA FOUNDATION GROUP SOCIETY

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Is that from Rushmore? i like it. Or Team Zizzu!

[@MaurizioOiziruam]

Your head is not hot because the hat slows down heat transfers. Edit: *head, not hat.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

There is foil underneath. I left that part out.