Is Shimano 105 Just As Good As Dura-Ace? | Di2 Edition!

[@gcn]

What do you think of Shimano 105 being Di2 only? Let us know your thoughts in the comments below!👇

[@chones_]

Ok, I'll bite. What is Shimano 105 DI2? Pretty sure it's more rare than the Hooded Grebe

[@ragwort3369]

Having used Di2 for a while now, it still strikes me as a solution looking for a problem, and doubly so at the riders 105 is aimed at. My experience is that Di2 does nothing that well set up mechanical shifting won't do, only at considerably more expense and without the "fixability" of mechanical systems. I'll be moving the bike on soon and going back to an exclusively mechanical fleet. EDIT: In fairness, I should say that mechanical shifting doesn't allow me to have "extra" shifters on top of the hoods, which I can see is a possible advantage (although I can shift mechanically from most hand positions anyway). Nor indeed can I control my Garmin using mechanical shifters, but given that it's on the handlebars anyway, that doesn't seem like a particularly useful feature!

[@strawhorn1]

So from this and previous videos should we update the rankings. Tiagra mechanical groupset of the people and 105 di2 electronic groupset of the people. My next bike will be 105 di2. Got a close up view at a Ribble test day.

[@matthewobrien5348]

Do it with the same wheels if it’s a groupset test!

[@traderz13]

I will always prefer mechanical for fixability of the go. Plus v important during the expected blackouts expected to come in Uk not to have to think about these things.

[@CharlesSmith-zt7vt]

As they always say, if you have to pay your own money for Dura-Ace, then you don't need it....

[@user-nu5fx6en9h]

I got a dura ace di2 I just like the name

[@Neon-zj1uk]

Bingo

[@raghnallmacaodh3220]

Yupper

[@daniely5260]

@@user-nu5fx6en9h asked… bloody genshin Player

[@danielrussell9416]

105 if it's your own money. For anything better the sponsor or team is paying for it.

[@DLMKGaming]

They’re more similar than ever! Even the price differs far less than before😕

[@gcn]

is 105 still the Groupset of the people? 🤔

[@kristiankrpan937]

@@gcn mechanical yes, electronic no!

[@GilbertTang]

Three reasons I went Ultegra 8100 over 105 for my upcoming build. First, the hidden buttons are meaningful to me. Second, the brakes. Third, in a weird and somewhat lucky turn of events, 105 Di2 was (and remains) in short enough supply that some places were (briefly at least) selling it for *more* than Ultegra, which is bonkers.

[@gcn]

Sounds great! Bet it's a nice build

[@DaveCM]

I've seen that too. I also saw people selling SRAM Rival for nearly the cost of SRAM Red. Who is buying this stuff at these prices?

[@lsantilli]

The thing is, just because you can feel a difference, doesn’t mean it changes your actual performance in any meaningful way negatively. I can feel the difference between my Chevy Cruze and my wife’s SUV, but they both get me to work on time in the same time.

[@toozydude2]

So now, if they wanted, Shimano can literally program a tiny delay in the 105 shifting to make it feel worse, even when its capable of the same shifting speed.

[@Jackisaboss1208]

But then you can pay to upgrade the software in the shifters you already bought! That doesn’t sound dystopian at all

[@MrMaxusy]

@@Jackisaboss1208 It's like BMW's subscription for seat heaters. Watch them charge for a subscription fee for faster shifting or some crap. I'll stick with my mechanical shifters.

[@milandjilas]

It's the same for Intel CPUs, they manufacture them all the same in one family. Then they disable specific subsystems and sell these at a cheaper price.

[@MrMaxusy]

@@milandjilas Yes but then, at least in the past, there was usually a physical difference between the CPU's still. If it turned out not exactly as good as they had hoped, they could still disable parts of it and sell a higher-tier cpu as lower tier.

[@larsvonrinpoche1229]

Creepy thought. Yuck! Even nastier is that it's possible

[@BennyOcean]

Thanks for the video. As someone who likes and wants to continue using mechanical shifting, I hope Shimano doesn't plan to stop making mechanical groupsets.

[@whatwelearned]

They will once they become cheap enough to produce at the entry level but I imagine that's a good while away

[@gcn]

Mechanical is here to stay, DI2 can be a great upgrade, for those that want it 👌

[@trainiax]

@@whatwelearned Entry-level mechanical costs $25 for a shifter or derailleur. There's no way all the electronics of Di2 would be cheaper to produce.

[@whatwelearned]

@@trainiax That's not close to true; Tiagra levers are 115 and if you count that as mid level then Claris levers are 85. No, electronic won't be on £250 bikes but that's not what we're talking about

[@trainiax]

@@whatwelearned Well, if you limit "entry level" to bikes with named groupsets with STI levers above a certain price point, then of course the shifters are more expensive - but that somewhat misses my point. The point is that a mechanical shifting mechanism by itself is not expensive to produce - Acera or even Alivio flat-bar shifters (equivalent to Claris or Sora) are indeed not much more than $25. But that's the only potential cost savings for Di2 since it's the only component that's eliminated. STI levers are more expensive in part because they combine the braking mechanism - and that doesn't change with Di2. I also mentioned derailleurs - because up to now, Di2 derailleurs have been massively more expensive than mechanical: 3 to 4 times the price of their same-tier mechanical counterparts, and 10 to 20 times the cost of an entry-level derailleur. That huge price gap will never disappear as long as they have all the same mechanical bits with a motor and electronics added on top.

[@bingoberra18]

You should compare the best setups from Shimano, SRAM and Campagnolo in a technical nerdy way and a subjective test.

[@mattm9689]

Would be a great idea but GCN is sponsored by Shimano so that won’t ever happen. ☹️

[@davidventura6563]

@@mattm9689 damn that’s fucked

[@thebelly925]

@@mattm9689 they say only sponsored by Shimano wheels, so hope still exists for the group comparison. 🤞

[@delanerouse7574]

Since I started riding in 1994, Dura Ace has always been the coolest name in cycling. I’ve always wanted a bike with Dura Ace, but never had one. I currently run SRAM Red ETap and life it, but one day I’ll have Dura Ace.

[@KeithHeinrich]

They say you should never meet your heroes. ;)

[@ethangodridge6833]

Even blindfolded, Si is still better at clipping in than Matt back in the day.

[@gcn]

🤣

[@KenRick2010]

🔥

[@SergioSeminarioC]

I just bought my first decent road bike, got a Tarmac SL6 Sport with mechanical 105s, and from the all reviews about the group set, I think i made the right choice. Difference seems negligible for a big price difference. Granted, I didn't try the eTAPs

[@Countrystock]

Think we need a Di2 Shootout.....105 Vs Ultegra Vs Dura ace. 🤞🏻

[@gcn]

Di2 stand off, sounds great! 👀

[@kenneththomas3558]

Great analysis and dynamic . Simon and Alex should do more videos together. Thank you.

[@SteveWeltman]

Another brilliant review! Glad noone wiped while blindfolded. I am really fortunate that I have a Trek Domane ProjectOne with Ultegra Di2 12 (2022) and I bypassed the DuraAce (a fantastic option, but at a substantial price jump) because the group weight and the performance differences would be imperceivable for me as an amateur athlete (and still in my first year back in about 35 years off of cycling). At the time of my purchase, the 105 group wasn't available in a Di2 12 cassette version. Any of the 3 top Shimano groups are so good, for most people it comes down to budget and preference than performance.

[@freshairandfree139]

The obvious next test is Dura V’s Ultegra V’s 105 on IDENTICAL bikes, and wear ear muffler’s when doing the blind test, then it’s completely subjective, no?

[@brannmacfinnchad9056]

That was one of the most amusing and enjoyable product comparison videos you've done in a long time. Especially Si trying to ride blindfolded.

[@fnqadv1162]

12 speed 105 mechanical would be nice, if Sensah can do it surely Shimano can.

[@pierrex3226]

Road cycling has become an Instagram flex game of dentists and posers. You can't get a decent bike for less than 2k now. Shimano is adapting to those trends, it looks to me.

[@Zwiesel66]

@@pierrex3226 DI2 is great as long you do not forget to charge it 😂

[@pierrex3226]

@@Zwiesel66 I'm sitting on a bench a few km from home because my EUC ran out of juice, so yeah, electric things are great, as long as they have battery...

[@chrisridesbicycles]

Having a sleeker front derailleur near the ankles might be a big plus for some. 🙃 I was riding 12s HG+ on the MTB for a few years before I got my road bike (11s Ultegra mechanical) and shifting to a harder gear immediately felt clunky. HG+ makes a difference.

[@gcn]

Perhaps it's one of those things that you get used to and its hard to go back 🤔

[@chrisridesbicycles]

@@gcn Absolutely! This small plus makes more difference that it seems. I still don‘t understand why they made a non-HG+ 12s for 105. On the MTB it‘s all the way down to Deore.

[@2ball434]

​Roadies are willing to pay more.

[@sandydennylives1392]

I love Shimano...on my pub bike. I do wish in fairness though that you would occasionally discuss Shimano on your website. I know your obsessed with Campy all the time but Shimano make very good urban bike bottom brackets and their road group sets really are quite good and deserve a mention.

[@alexmichl3137]

Wait so in "tests" you basically can't tell a difference, but the conclusion is there is a difference? Plus you said at the start that you have identical bikes, but at the end you justify the overpriced dura-ace by saying that the bike overall is much better equipped? Like guys at least dont dismiss your own points when you try to sell these overpriced components and bikes.

[@SpenceW]

Am I right in thinking that swapping the cassette for an Ultegra cassette to get the Hyperglide+ would result in *almost* the same shifting feel as Dura Ace? A new CS-R8100 (Ultegra) cassette is £80-£90 in the UK at the moment, depending on the size. Swapping it appears to be one way of addressing one of the few real shifting differences, and would seem to be a sensible upgrade. Is that correct, or am I missing something?

[@nathanielkhoom6043]

So the next question is what difference you would have using the Dura Ace shifters with 105 mechs.....? Would the mech's change the speed of shifting?

[@jameshancock18]

I wondered this also, 105 group set with ultegra mechs and cassette for hg+

[@kyellan2107]

12:39 "So I can clearly NOT choose the wine in front of you!"

[@ayan3261]

I don’t know much about biking but 2 things seems a bit weird to me. 1. They boys on the track talking about how each set feels, but coming from motorcycling I would argue the wheels have the biggest impact in that area and these 2 bikes are using 2 different wheel sets. 2 on the climb they were talking about if they could feel the difference of the 600g weight, but the bikes have water bottles on them, and really any water level different would impact on the level of a couple hundred grams

[@mattm9689]

I use Ultegra because it’s a nice middle ground between 105 and Dura Ace.

[@backpacker3421]

Me too, and honestly, if you shop around and wait for sales and bargains, Ultegra can be had nearly as cheap as 105 - and when I was building up my last two bikes, Ultegra was still a HUGE jump up in performance over 105. That gap has closed somewhat though. Today, if I was building a new bike, I'd be taking a very serious look at 105 and weighing out the prices.

[@stopbanningmeonets3514]

They can hear though by the sound of the wheels, the dura-ace one has deep wheels. Also, could be mistaken, but the one bar width seems wider than the other.

[@Nyarlathoth]

No difference at all for me. Both over 1500 of any currency, therefore I am not going to have either

[@Max-et4ck]

I'd pay 1500 Colombian Pesos

[@dansugardude2655]

I’d pay 1500 Hungarian Forint and save loads on it 🇭🇺❤️

[@a1white]

With regards to weight, we’re going backwards with Di2. my ancient ultegra 6600 is lighter than both of these.

[@tongucyaman]

I was really interested in Ultegra and loved your conclusion. Keep up the fun dialogs.

[@Gixer750pilot]

I just love the way you roast Hank over the front wheel comment 😂

[@simonfunwithtrains1572]

Nice to see GCN making use of their Sauna for bike testing purposes.

[@defenderoftheadverb]

Pumpkin shoes for Halloween. That's the spirit.

[@Metal-Possum]

Meanwhile I still have Campagnolo Veloce 10 speed. It's not perfect, but they made absolutely no effort to make it look or feel cheap, which is why I like it so much.

[@lukewalker1051]

I rode Campy 10s for years. Btw, there was virtually nothing between Veloce and Record for Campy either. 10 speed is the sweet spot. If you want good, economical cable shifting and my preference, try Sram Rival 22 mechanical. I even prefer it to Campy mechanical and I rode Campy for decades. No electric shifting for me and I build all kind of bikes including high power ebikes.

[@Metal-Possum]

​@@lukewalker1051 I'll never use SRAM except for 7/8 speed cassettes for random builds. I work as a bike mechanic and SRAM is by far the least enjoyable stuff to see coming into the shop apart from Shimano Tourney. I'm a big fan of inexpensive 8 speed drivetrains, Shimano Altus, Acera etc. They shift flawlessly, cost very little, and are much more forgiving. Yeah, the pivots might wear faster but the tolerances are so forgiving that it doesn't really matter.

[@neilmdon]

12:55 “Never engage in a battle of wits with a Sicilian!”

[@chiefsilverback]

HyperGlide+ is down to the chain and cassette, so why not run 105 mechs, levers etc... and a Dura-Ace cassette and chain?

[@dominishka3]

I'd love to see a comparison between 105 mechanical and Di2.

[@gcn]

Interesting, what would you choose? 🤔

[@dominishka3]

@@gcn Electronic shifting sounds luxurious, but I’m a simple (and not particularly mechanically inclined) man who lives mostly in developing countries - if anything breaks down, I’ve got to fix it myself. If I had ready access to reliable bike shops (and had excess cash) then Di2 would be tempting, but would the theoretical marginal gains in ease or performance outweigh the costs to simplicity in maintenance and (perhaps) reliability?

[@fabianbv82]

The question now is: are the previous Dura Ace 11s better than the new 105 Di2?

[@tomrengert1221]

Si, I have tears running down my face listening to Si sharp!

[@KenSmith-bv4si]

Great video Si and Alex.

[@markstone722]

There has to be a difference otherwise you couldn't justify the higher price dura ace. The most important thing is whatever group set you have just get on your bike and ride and have fun 👍

[@defenderoftheadverb]

600 grams is not nothing.

[@Zwiesel66]

The difference is only in your mind 😉

[@markstone722]

@@Zwiesel66 plus scales and wallet.

[@skfl2372]

@@defenderoftheadverb it's more than 600 grams because your wallet will also be significantly lighter than if you buy 105

[@gcn]

Great point Mark. Whatever gets you out on your bike and fires you up to ride, is the best option 🙌

[@swissride4k]

Wonderful! Amazing way of telling us about something. Thanks for sharing!

[@BM-xm1zz]

Alright so I firstly, get job guys this is a very comprehensive comparison. That being said, one particular mention stood out to me. The feeling a light bike has as you push up a climb - bikes today weigh a sh*t ton in comparison to a few years ago. With most high end bikes weighing the same as 105 spec bikes from 2016, have we actually moved forward? Yes disc brakes help and improve confidence but gone is the sleek short cage derailleur instead of the one size fits all and the actual lightweight sub 16lb bikes that used to be attainable. People today pay 16000 for a 17lb long cage, wide ratio bike. It’s too bad we have to compromise straight blocks and lightweight builds to satisfy a need to continuously change standards

[@ltrtg13]

Seeing that clip of Si crying while listening to James Blunt. Reminded me. I'd be crying if I was listening to James Blunt. I would want a song to motivate me. Not said "screw it". Then throw my bike in to the nearest big hole in the ground and catch a bus. I would need something from Metallica, Iron Maiden or Testament. Great video. Still can't afford any of these groupsets yet.

[@soulsurfer8797]

I wonder how the outdoor/indoor test would feel on the bike if they had the same type of wheels as I think the vertical and lateral compliance of carbon wheels impacts the “feel” of shifts due to better acceleration of the wheel. Also what if you used a 105 groupset with a Durace rear derailleur.

[@FrankTsang]

electronic shifters are great option to have, but it is not self-sustainable.. it can be run out of battery at some point. it could be a weakest link.

[@peteo3436]

Chorus 12 speed is 2/3 the price of 105

[@captainbozo01]

I'd rather buy the cheaper groupset and make up the weight difference with a bathroom visit before the ride :P

[@lukewalker1051]

Now an honest assessment. For twice the price there is nothing between these two groupsets. The weight diff is nebulous. So, why did Shimano do this? Because they could commonize tooling for the 105 with cheaper materials...same design language and architecture...and charge twice as much for DuraAce for poseurs that have to have the DA name and....upcharge the consumer for 105 for more profit over cable 105. Cable 105 is what it still should be at a lower price point. The cycling industry fleecing the consumer who succumbs to marketing. There is absolutely no reason for DA to even exist with Ultegra other than Shimano knows people will pay for the name. Marketing and profit. Last thing is, there is nothing between the performance of these bikes tested. You could perform the same experiment on any pro team...or rank amateurs. Biggest difference was the deepness of the wheels for aero difference and that didn't matter to change the balance of which rider won the sprint. In a short race, Alex can hold Si's wheel until the sprint and then Alex's bigger sprinting wattage wins the race on either bike. Si would likely beat Alex in a long race again on either bike. In all my years racing, the fastest guy always wins independent of which bike he brought the race. One of the fastest racers I ever knew raced 105 cable on an old De Rosa aluminum bike with box section wheels. PS. who really wants 12 speeds in back with narrower cog spacing and narrower chain? 10 speed was the sweet spot.

[@jamesobrien3076]

My road bike is a Canyon Endurace. I love the frame and how it rides. I fully plan to upgrade to 105 Di 2 to make it my forever bike.

[@gcn]

Nice bike James! 🙌

[@All4Grogg]

Shimano and Sram are getting close to having their gigantic mountain of patents expire for their original electronic group sets. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they continue down the hierarchy of product offerings, knowing that "generic" offerings are coming soon to compete. Most patents expire after 15 years, di2 was released 13ish years ago which likely means - if you include tooling/manufacturing lead times taking it from patent to test to manufacture to test then to produce- that the bigger broader patents are months away from expiring. Also, Sram's wireless shifting glove patent as well, apparently, thanks google.

[@DT-un3bu]

I remember my first bike had 105. And I was like man I wish I had Durace like my friend. And then I stopped riding and sold bike. That was 10 years ago in college. Now I have a gravel from Cannondale with Adventx and to be honest it’s all same thing for me. I’m not that advanced to care. If I learned one thing, just ride and have fun. If I lose 40 pounds by riding bike I’ll be way faster than upgrading to Durace.

[@gcn]

Great point! The top end parts are really nice, but enjoying the ride is the most important thing 🙌

[@DT-un3bu]

@@gcn I often can’t stop smiling while I’m riding my bike. It’s like being a kid again. So fun

[@RoninCycling]

Alex screaming left reminds me of Ross screaming pivot in that one episode of FRIENDS.

[@janwillemkuilenburg7561]

105 di2 is faaaaar too expensive. NO chance that I will ever spend that cash on that groupset. It would mean a shift to a more reasonably priced brand.

[@JDMthwmn]

But you can narrow the gap significantly by upgrading to the 105di2 to the Ultegra front mech and casette (8170). Those upgrades would cost an extra £300 rather than an extra £1,600. Then the only thing you don’t have the is the servo wave technology and the extra di2 buttons.

[@lamaralvarez7385]

The long cage of shimano 105 is more versatile with more group sets.The shimano 105 long cage is more robust and can even wrap around a mountain range 11 42 cassette, something that the short cage of Dura Ace is incapable of,which gives 105 the upper hand.

[@thedownunderverse]

What 11-42 12 speed cassette have you tried?

[@Ohios1Cheesehead]

You guys have the best job.... ❤️

[@tomsandefur]

Give it to your newbie riders and see if they can tell the difference!

[@chrisrosser9848]

This is all a hypothetical because finding an actual bike equipped with 105 DI is a unicorn!

[@philthewriter]

Don't see how ramps on the cassette would make any difference at all to the feel or speed of shifting into harder gears - the chain only touches the sides of the cogs when shifting into easier larger gears? Know it's a paid promotion, but sounding incredibly all-out advert with the promotion of "Hyperglide Plus".

[@lazzaboyman8003]

I’m assuming you can run a DA cassette with 105Di2 but would be more restricted with gear range?

[@stevecooper7038]

@@kekkonenprkl 😂😂😂

[@Glopieo]

I’ll never stop laughing at that James Blunt clip 😝

[@ericcoxtcu8037]

I love the conclusion - Ultegra is where I usually end up. We just ordered my son his first real race bike (he's in college), and made the decision to move from the 105 bike to the Ultegra for a bit more. Like Orbea, the move brought upgrades to the frame, wheels, and handlebar/ stem for not much more.

[@gcn]

Lucky Lad! Hope you enjoys the new bike 🙌

[@JIMMYHIBBS1]

105 with a Dura-Ace cassette is all you need then ?! …. When I was a kid (and fast) I had Dura-ace …. The first gen STI levers - OMG - coming from 105 down tube shifters at the time - I could tell the difference 😂

[@glyndonwakeman7420]

Exactly what I was thinking. Swap out a cassette for D/A and the weight diff decreases and so does the diff in shift quality, and some of your hard earned $. But the fact they had to listen to the sound of a FD motor says they couldn't tell the difference blindfolded.

[@gcn]

Could you go back to Down tube shifters 🤔

[@JIMMYHIBBS1]

@@gcn well - at the time I was doing mostly 10 and 25 mile time trials with Tri-bars on my road bike - so actually down tube shifters were pretty good

[@beingeuge4121]

blindfold biking …sounds like a good challenge to throw Hank’s way.

[@NathanLipkeEvilN8]

Si truly has a dizzying intellect. Inconceivable!!!

[@ricf9592]

I use Ultegra but a Dura-Ace chain. However, 1600 Hrs training and a 5kg flab loss, over two years has saved me a fortune in upgrades.

[@mikew9743]

Mechanical 105 had a major flow in that if you were trying to shift into big ring middle of a hill its often not very effective. Otherwise it was a good groupset and more importantly a cheap groupset. Mechnical dura ace on the other hand was the best mechanical groupset ever made frankly and it was very light. Really diff between DI2 DURAACE and 105 is really about the weight which might seem small until you add up a entire build. Full dura ace builds can often be 2-3kg lighter than a 105 di2 build and that kinda of weight especially for a lower weight rider could be a fairly substantial advantage on the climb.

[@Wazi1989]

nope, campagnolo record was waaaay better than dura ace

[@davidparry1982]

Nowt that a black sharpie marker and a couple of stickers off Etsy couldn’t sort out… good fun - ride what makes you happy

[@IAmRetail]

That was great 👍. You should also do with a power meter, each of you do a ride keeping a consistent power, and time it

[@jameshancock18]

Probably make minimal difference, given a margin of error it would likely be the same

[@aidy3877]

That's crying out to be done on the tandem - blindfolded would totally be a go

[@gcn]

Just Blindfold the pilot perhaps. 🤣

[@YuichiTamaki]

My body might not be that sensible but my wallet sure is!

[@dianavotaw8027]

A better comparison would be to do the test blindfolded, ear plugs in, and some sort of knobby gloves. That stops the other senses from taking over and you could tell if there is a difference

[@markhagen7777]

So the difference between the two groups is wait but it sure is fun to watch our favorite presenters frolic

[@dalis994]

IMHO even 105 Di2 is expensive, no thanks. I still consider Ultergra (mechanical) as the best groupset as for the price/performance ratio. Where is the industry going? A direction I refuse to follow.

[@dalis994]

Replying to my own answer :-) I don't even care what is the performance difference. The price is decisive factor. 105 Di2 is expensive.

[@kurtallen8837]

Loved the video Subtle changes in my mind do make a difference. Just leaves the one big question or maybe 2 Which is better in top range and mid range Campagnolo Shimano Sram . Electronic shifting I've tried all 3 in mechanical and found only the shifting different

[@gcn]

What did you prefer? 🤔

[@kurtallen8837]

@@gcn tuff choice between shimano and sram .......mechanical Sram

[@jevgeniardassov]

That gauge on the 105 bike at 17:06, that is some well dropped chain right there. What happened?

[@robdrelich8563]

Swiss advanced ski school you descend blindfolded for some exercises with your classmates shouting out left right....

[@cyberfunk3793]

I don't understand why would anyone not racing their bicycle would bother paying for such marginal gains unless they are so rich that the price difference really doesn't matter at all.

[@lucianos1624]

you can start to see the difference on 0:05, with 105 having chain snap marks on the frame 👀

[@filippopogacar]

I love ShiManon

[@gregvassilakos]

Now do a comparison between SRAM Red and SRAM Rival.

[@wildsurfer12]

There may be a difference in Dura Ace and 105 Di2, but on a Ribble Ultra SLR is it really worth the extra £3200?

[@bonbonflippers4298]

Heck no lol! That money better spent on new wheels or crankset and gps computer

[@chrisstrider]

105 looks good for endurance bikes which might have been fitted with GRX until now. Ultegra for me

[@alexdoner3641]

One of the really cool things I noticed about the dirt Ace 105 on my 2017 Cannondale 6 was that it was one of the versions that didn't have the free Hub on it

[@thevintagehifiambassador8524]

so, if the answer would have been: "Nope, Dura ace not better than 105, not one slight bit" , what would the industry have thought about such a statement especially Shimano and the their dealers ... is there any price difference from 105 to Dura Ace? Don't know as I have not cycled for 25 years now :-)

[@Zwiesel66]

I think you have to do another test with these bikes. You have to sit a blindfolded, inexperienced person (without DI2 experience) on both bikes and then ask it, what the higher priced shifter version is.

[@gcn]

Nice idea, maybe next time we'll bring in a third party 🙌

[@zodgzod]

105 with an Ultegra cassette is probably most of the way there to DuraAce (ignoring weight). (I write as a happy Ultegra R8100 rider, but I would miss the ServoWave brakes.)

[@neuspur]

I have an ultegra bike, that came with that "universal" 105/ultegra 11-34 cassette. swapped it with a "true" ultegra cassette/chain: WOW!! lighter, smother, better shifting.

[@gcn]

Could you go back?

[@zodgzod]

@@gcn I rode my 16 year old son’s 105 R7000 bike to work last month when mine was in the shop for a brake bleed. I wouldn’t want to give up on the new Ultegra Di2, but his bike felt better than I remembered 105. It does have an Ultegra cassette (and brake callipers) though.

[@Rob6020]

I've got Ultegra Di2 on my spare bike, race bike and TT bike and I think it offers the best value. Use a DA cassette and there's very little difference to a full DA set up that costs much more

[@nyf_verg]

I think Ultegra Di2 11 Speed with 105 Crankset and Cassette. Is still the way to go if you want Di2.

[@timwong6818]

The ultimate problem for 105 di2 is that people don't want to pay that much for di2. But it has a solution now because the actual retail price is half the original MSRP. I got mine around 800usd or so, brand new no box, no warranty. (shimano gives 105 and ultegra 1 year warranty, which is effectively non-existent anyways) The price drop is because whole-bike sellers are over-supplying the market and thus the price just jump over the cliff.

[@thedownunderverse]

If brand new, why would it have no warranty?

[@ronronmelon]

Ohhhh, should have tried 105 for the indoor test because that's the majority who care for! Nice video anyway

[@DG-tf9rp]

If both bikes would have the same cassette (ultegra ultra glide+) chain, and good bottom Bracket, after a shift. what would be the difference? they should both Di2 shift the same. . And pedal the same. Stick with 105?

[@Milesobrian]

No thanks. I ride bike to get away from electronics.

[@trainiax]

I'm with you there - already enough batteries with the phone, tail light and trip computer, and the bike will still work without them

[@-P-Z-]

Blind test on a roller was not fair. It was already admitted earlier in a video that hubs sound differently. And Si is taking advantage of that. Hence the protocol with kickr from initial comparison video several years ago was more fair.

[@Relevant_Irrelevance]

That might have been why it wasn't done

[@RichardMigneron]

Maybe a combo of all the 3 groupsets would be the perfect bike. For exemple, I ride long roads and don't use my brakes much, but I constantly shift in the rear and only when climbing hills in the front. So a combo of mainly Ultegra with a rear Dura-Ace derailleur and 105 brakes would be perfect, and an extra climbing shifter on the bars (105 can't do that). But my big pb with all these are the cassette options which don't suit me at all. Love my current 12-25 (got an 18 instead of the useless 11), which is perfect !

[@omaralexandres]

We don't buy the bikes for the shifting sound. The next test needs to be done with all three options, blindfolded and with earplugs.

[@harshchoudhary941]

Couch greg

[@bgyme]

I have Shimano Tiagra 10×2 in gravel bike and it Good for me 😊 smoth and confortable

[@jemichaellim]

Are they still going to keep making the 105 mechanical groupset? Or is the Tiagra and Sora going up a speed?

[@neuspur]

Yes, the new 105 is nice - but its not the groupset of the people any longer. I know that "the old" 105 will stay in the market a while. But HOW LONG? any idea????? is it "as optimised as possible" and will remain like "forever"?

[@icequake2000]

I have a feeling 105 Di2 is not selling that we'll.

[@lukewalker1051]

Shimano would sell it to bike mfrs to put it on production bikes.

[@kidShibuya]

Yeah being sold out is never a good sign.