SHIMANO XTR Dropper REMOTE??? - Shimano MT800 vs Woolf Tooth ReMote

Dropper post #REMOTE from Shimano? SL-MT800 was launched with the #Shimano #XTR 12 speed, 7mm cable pull, universal remote. Premium, perfect integration, here I compare it with the well known Woolf Tooth ReMOTE .
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Shimano XTR SL-MT800 Dropper Remote - bit.ly/3bbadTm
Shimano Deore MT500 Universal Dropper Remote for I-Spec EV - bit.ly/37apDqA
Wolf Tooth ReMote I-Spec EV Conversion Kit - bit.ly/2RAHnou
Wolf Tooth ReMote Light Action Dropper Lever - bit.ly/31PwQJs
Wolf Tooth ReMote I-Spec EV Conversion Kit - bit.ly/2RAHnou
PNW Loam Lever dropper post 1X lever kit - bit.ly/2uItmMO
OneUp Dropper Remote - bit.ly/2OTLGdf
Shimano MTB Optislick Derailleur Cable Set - bit.ly/37G5pXo
Shimano MTB Stainless Derailleur Cable and Housing Set - bit.ly/37qcgkb
Jagwire MTB Housing and Cable - bit.ly/32Xf7lu
Shimano SP41 Cable Housing - bit.ly/2H7YHhj
Shimano SP41 Shift Cable Grease - bit.ly/2LKLk6A
Shimano XT SL-M8100-L Clamp-Band Shifter - bit.ly/2K6JNH9
Shimano XT RD-M8100-SGS Derailleur for 1x - 12-Speed - bit.ly/2NUZEcZ
Shimano XT CN-M8100 Chain - 12-Speed - bit.ly/2PZJ7qL
Shimano XT CS-M8100 Cassette 10-51t 12-Speed - bit.ly/2M1yD8s
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00:00 Intro
My channel is not sponsored. All opinions are my own, 100% honest. Some of the links in this description are affiliate links. I'll earn a small commission if you make a purchase and it's no additional cost to you, I appreciate your support!

[@wonderwatch2239]

I have used this Shimano remote for a year now, works flawless, and have an extra, in the box, for my next build👍🤘

[@MitchEllison]

I had the same problem with angle on the Wolftooth Sram Shifter mount and Magura adaptor. Can't change the position. Even worse the top of the shifter was interferrening with the bottom of the Magura lever, not good at all. I really like the Wolftooth products, but when i pointed this out, they told me knowone else is having the issue. They didn't know I tried the Magura adapter with another friend with MT7s and a Sram X0 shift pod, and it too interferred with the top of the shifter pod cover. That and the fack that you can't roll the shifter position up towards the thumb kind of killed my Wolftooth joy. It's surprising that wolftooth would miss out on simple ergonomics and worse actually interferrence, but this video says the same thing about the dropper lever. Glad I found this video, because I am switching to Shimano brake levers, and I was considering ordering the little adaptor for my Wolf tooth lever. Now I think I'll just abandon my Wolftooth lever for this Shimano one.

[@LoveMTB]

We have the Shimano lever for most of our bikes and it works very well. I would use the cheaper Deore one though for 2 more mm of cable pull, 9 vs 7

[@stuartwilkes4434]

Nice. I'd ordered a Wolf tooth but it wasnt available so just today I ordered the XTR

[@catg9196]

I’ve got the m8100 brakes with wolftooth remote. I agree. The slot for the angle isnt enough to tilt up. Especially when my brake lever is closer to straight then yours. Thanx for the video👍

[@Groove_C_Arma]

@@LoveMTB alternative being XTR brake lever with longer I-Spec EV brake lever clamp "rail/opening" for greater vertical adjustment )))

[@elvay6847]

I am running a Wolf Tooth lever at the moment, but I do not like the angle in which it sits, and like you said, you can not adjust it. (otherwise it's a very fine product!) Based on this overview I am going to try out the Shimano lever. Thanks for your work. It helped a lot!

[@sebastianjost]

0:02 Well, I do have a dropper remote (the OneUp-Remote) but I'm still waiting for my dropper post xD Ordered a Crankbrothers Highline 3 3 months ago but it still hasn't arrived. I can't wait to finally have a dropper though. Thanks for the review.

[@tinshield]

I have one. It is really smooth and well designed. Some may not like the position of the paddle but I like how it doesn’t hang down that low.

[@cameronmclaren4941]

Recently had a stack and broke the Wolftooth breakaway bush that is designed to break. I didn't have a spare so had to finish ride without a dropper post. Now that is a PITA! Replaced the breakaway bush for a couple of bucks and now carry a spare in my pack. Wolftooth gets my vote with direct bar mount adjust-ability .

[@Vulneraire]

Thanks for your video mate. Just bought the Shim remote and it feels really great

[@mwinner101]

I have a Wolf Tooth remote/Fox dropper combo on my Yeti and it works like a champ.

[@mwinner101]

LoveMTB I run SRAM brakes so I’ll pass.

[@olivierhacking]

Try the Oneup dropper remote! Love its solid build and oversized bearing operation :) And no cable visible...

[@dougdewar7896]

@@LoveMTB I used the wolftooth and liked it but then tried the one up - the wolftooth is now on a kid's bike. The bigger paddle and aluminum knurls just do not feel as good as the smaller one up -for once size does not matter!!! thanks for the great videos!

[@gammelgemse]

I dont even have a dropper post, but i put a remote on my bars anyhow, just to be hip and blend in with the cool kids. ✌😎

[@scottpratico1315]

Highposting is an endangered skill.

[@scottpratico1315]

The Dropper post is the biggest game changer for technical riding. I wouldn't own an MTB without one.

[@brauljo]

I much prefer the how the cable points away from your hand on the Shimano lever

[@richardkovanda7578]

Just ordered one, what a bargain!

[@LoveMTB]

Let me know how you like it!👍

[@dkumagai30]

I noticed that you have the wolf tooth adapter hanging in the opposite direction at the end of the video as opposed to the beginning. The orientation greatly alters the position of the remote lever. When I first installed my wolf tooth, I disliked how low and close to the brake lever the remote hung. I decided to flip the adapter 180 degrees and this positions the remote much higher. It's actually a little too high and away from the bars mounted this way, but it's better than the stock orientation for me.

[@davidcarvalho9035]

Am I the only one who doesn't care about what remote I have as long as it is under the bar? Good video!!! I have been happy with my BX ascend wobbly lever

Very nice review... as always! I also have the new Shimano remote and works pretty fine.

[@vadergrd]

sl-mt800 all the way/shimano. thank you for the review!

[@ocbyn]

Great review thanks. New subscriber

[@LoveMTB]

Awesome, thank you!

[@normanmommu1]

I have the new XTR I-Spec EV Brakes with Wolf Tooh Remote I-Spec EV lever and I cannot give it any faults, for me its perfect (with Crankbrothers Highline dropper post).

[@Noix64]

What do you think about the lever weight compared to the highline lever?

[@Groove_C_Arma]

*Don't forget or consider* , that OneUp dropper remote is sold clearly as "only" XTR brake lever I-Spec EV bar clamp compatible and also that MatchMaker X shifters/reverb droppers will also have reduced reach adjustability, since SLX and XT brake levers' have shorter I-Spec EV bar clamp "rail/opening" and are reduced in reach adjustment vs. XTR brake lever that has longer I-Spec EV bar clamp "rail/opening". I suppose that for Wolf Tooth you have used MatchMaker X adapter from them. That's why the adjustability was reduced, since you have XT brake lever I-Spec EV bar clamp. No idea if this artificial/rediculous difference was introduced to promote XTR brake levers as having more adjustability (vs. SLX/XT) or to add further more weight to SLX/XT levers and sell XTR levers as lighter ones. Btw, your XTR dropper remote suffers from same vertical adjustability problem, since you have a XT brake lever. If your brake lever would have been a XTR one, you could have lifted original Shimano I-Spec EV shifter/dropper remote + MatchMaker X shifter/Reverb dropper remote much higher/closer.

[@Groove_C_Arma]

@@LoveMTB actually no, it's not same ))) Same inner diameter of the bar clamp and same width, yes, but not same length of the opening for shifter/dropper remote vertical position adjustment. Also on XTR levers, the upper part of the bar clamp is drilled out to save weight and is shaped slightly different. But just slightly.

[@Groove_C_Arma]

@@LoveMTB here you can clearly see (despite different camera angles) that XTR lever has a slightly wider opening (despite same outer clamp diameter) and the opening is much longer than on the XT lever + drilled out upper part of the clamp vs. XT. BL-M9120 bikeimport.ch/images/products/20976_5_R_209.JPG BL-M8100 www.bike-components.de/cache/p/xl1/7/1/Shimano-Levier-de-Frein-XT-BL-M8100-noir-gauche-71476-269157-1558532979.jpeg It's 100% done to artificially separate XTR levers from XT as much as possible by leaving more material on them (where possible), since this time they're otherwise identical, both are made out of aluminum (cylinder+reservoir+blade), whereas on previous XTR brake levers (BL-M9020) you had carbon blades and magnesium cylinder+reservoir )))

[@Groove_C_Arma]

@@LoveMTB here you can clearly see that XTR brake lever has a much wider vertical adjustment range vs. SLX/XT www.mtb-news.de/forum/attachments/ev-jpg.999580/ Maybe now you will be tempted to upgrade your XT levers to XTR BL-M9120 levers ))) Here you can see MatchMaker X shifter working perfectly with I-spec EV brake lever (XTR) www.mtb-news.de/forum/attachments/_20181029_073848-jpg.789248/ www.mtb-news.de/forum/attachments/_20181029_074109-jpg.789249/ The guy said that MatchMaker X silver mounting plate might need to be slightly sanded down on left and right so it can freely slide up and down inside the I-spec EV opening.

[@th_js]

Great vid once again.

[@TrailBikeMike]

I have a Wolftooth lever and bought the same iSpec EV kit when I upgraded to XT M8100. Same issue as you with the lever in a strange position. I have the light action lever so maybe not as bad. Anyway, I adjusted to it and it feels fine now. I’ll most likely go for this Shimano one next time though.

[@TrailBikeMike]

@@LoveMTB update - I just bought the Shimano lever and it is great. It feels better quality and the position is much better. I now use my Wolftooth lever on my new hardtail which has iSpec II (XT M8000) brake levers and positioning is just fine, unlike with iSpec EV.

[@jerryx2000]

is there a spring in the remote that pulls the remote back after I press it?

[@braddehaven8828]

Shimano seems to give good product either you like it or you dont I however love all their stuff..

[@piciu256]

It is a good product, still very overpriced for what it is, hence I'm sticking with a modified shifter for a lever, I just cannot accept how ridiculously expensive all the dropper levers are.

[@braddehaven8828]

@@LoveMTB I dont mind paying for a good product if it works like it should! people need to realize that a quality product is worth it if it lasts thats why lovemtb makes these videos so you dont have to buy a product and regret your puchase you have one of if not the best channels on KZbin..

[@sebastianjost]

@@braddehaven8828 my issue with dropper levers is that shifters are obviously way more complex but still cheaper than many dropper remotes. I went for the OneUp remote for about 30€ and bought the i-spec ii adapter I needed elsewhere to get the price down... These adapters are all the same, yet most brands put their logo on it and charge 10€ more. (Same with some cheap remotes)

[@piciu256]

@@sebastianjost That's exactly my take on this, 50$ for a lever might be worth it for someone, but it doesn't change the fact that it's just a clamp, a lever and a bearing, being "worth it" doesn't mean it's not overpriced, and it's only really worth it cause everyone else is ripping you off too, if someone sold those for half the price, I'd have no issues buying them, and noone would say the 50$ ones are worth it.

[@piciu256]

@@LoveMTB the brand x one is really bad though :P

[@TheMrMajko]

hi, thansk for new vid, please make comparison of one up remote with shimano or wolftooth remote

[@Beef0121do1]

Hi you didn't show where it terminates?

[@LoveMTB]

Terminates at the lever

[@camperhonsa8633]

My PNW loam lever works wonderfully with I-Spec EV, would recommend to anyone.

[@seanhornchek6440]

I prefer the loam over wolftooth and oneup as well!

[@SpencerBaum]

@@LoveMTB I also run the loam lever, definitely the best lever I've used. Even better than wolf tooth

[@SpencerBaum]

@@LoveMTB yeah, the exposed cable is kinda an eyesore, but Ill happily accept the little inconvenience of the cable because of how amazing the lever feels and how flawless it works. The cnc machining of the lever makes it feel far and away the most premium lever I've used. It feels much higher quality than even the wolf tooth or the shimano levers.

[@arturgrubich6597]

Where can I find lever like this for lockout to my fork?

[@pacosenderos]

Buen video , util y buenas explicaciones. Gracias

[@WStar4Life]

To install do you just remove the cable from the stock remote and install it in the Shimano remote?

[@LoveMTB]

In theory yes that’s all is needed

[@doncrescas]

Did you see that the new deore lineup includes an SL-MT500 i-spec ev or band clamp dropper remote for about half the price? Listed as 9mm of pull vs 7mm and I imagine plastic vs metal lever. The really odd thing is that the shimano product shots show it from above so you can't really see what it looks like. I only found one front view picture of it using google image search, and it looks nearly identical to the XT version.

[@doncrescas]

@@LoveMTB I'd love to hear your impressions of it when it is available. I am interested in getting an i-spec ev remote but the price on the MT800 is quite high.

[@jvh22a]

I have old xt brakes, m785. Will the shimano dropper lever work with these brakes?

[@LoveMTB]

Only if you look for the Deore version, bar mount, this one - kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJ7FknpnbsyJadU

[@GokkunGuru]

Ergonomics-wise, is it a rule of thumb to angle the dropper lever and shifters on same angle as the brake lever? Thanks

[@AG-cg7lk]

Found this video too late, unfortunately. I have the Wolf tooth remote with shimano ev adapter, and it is not very well designed. Firstly, it was very fiddly to mount and adjust. Also, I found that sensible amounts of torque on the attchment bolt were not enough to keep it in position. I came very close to stripping the adapter nut getting it tight enough to stay in position, and adjusting the position is much harder than it should be. I have bought the separate bar clamp (way overpriced!) as a backup in case this small nut adapter part fails as I have no faith in it at all. Wish I had known about the shimano product. At this hefty price, the Wolf tooth remote should be a lot better than it is.

[@tommyfm7795]

IS this compatible with ks e30i?

[@benf1961]

I was given the Shimano lever but I don't have the little nut insert that goes Into the brake. Where can I find this peice to buy. It would help a lot of someone replied. Thanks!

[@Groove_C_Arma]

Will upgrade my Rockshox Reverb Stealth regular over the bar clamp dropper remote on the right to the one under the bar on the left with MatchMaker X that's easier to push, since it has a long "blade" and looks almost like a regular shifter and fits perfectly to my I-spec EV XTR M9120 brakes, since I moved completely from XT M8000 26-36x11-42 to full XTR M9100 30x10-51 (absolute black 30T oval) on my 27,5" 2016 Scott Genius 710 (2x150 mm) static.cyclelab.eu/velos/scott/2007/highres/2016-241331.jpg RD-M9100 has a much better retention of the chain than the RD-M8000 and have until now experienced 0 chain drops without chain guide! Btw, derailleurs for 2x10-45 have a weaker chain retention than 1x10-51 derailleurs. Most certainly because of different placement/construction of pulleys retention arms.

[@Luis-qc7ln]

Can I use the shimano dropper remote as suspension remote lockout, cause the suspension remote is upper the handlebar and is hard for me to lockout.

[@adriancabrera3014]

Comparing with mt500 ? Which one is better for my money 💰? I want the mt800 but I don’t know 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@adriancabrera3014]

@@LoveMTB ooh 😮 I see well I bought KS e 20 but mt500 is cheaper XD

[@DamianNocun]

Dear bikers, is anyone using it with Bontrager Line Elite dropper ? will it work ?

[@LoveMTB]

Yes no problem. But get the Deore, it has more cable pull. I have a review on it also.

[@danielherrerotamayo5848]

What are the diferencies between this remote and the sl-mt500-il the deore one?

[@massimomusto1975]

that looks nice, but I also have fox 2 position suspension remote so this can still be fitted well? I mean moving a little inside the fox remote and turning the Shimano remote in a lower position both of them can coexist? thanks for the anwer.

[@massimomusto1975]

@@LoveMTB yes I'd move the fox right inside, for sure I'll need to remove the hand from the grip to activate suspension lockout. I'm not sure if it is best this or simply use a 2by handlebar remote for the dropper. what you think is best?

[@Kammaol]

What about the cheapest dropper remote on the market the Shimano MT500? It costs around $20 but I haven't seen a single review.

[@ps3narciso]

it can be paired with magura brakes?

[@Kenny-je2ud]

Nice dude 🤙🔥🚴‍♂️

[@piciu256]

I spec II is fully comaptible with EV actually, both ways, you just need the mounting plate from I spec II, the rest remains the same.

[@piciu256]

@@LoveMTB Shimano mounting standards, you can mount I spec II shifters to EV with no 3rd party adapters and vice versa, I'm surprised you didn't make a video on this topic yet, what with the derailleur mixing etc. ;)

[@piciu256]

@@LoveMTB just mount the I spec II mounting bracket on the EV lever, you'll see, all they changed is ditch the adapter since the bar clamp is now where the mounting point used to be.

[@piciu256]

@@LoveMTB check out this thread forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-shifters-derailleurs-cranks/2019-xtr-ispec-ev-1091768.html The first time I saw the new lever in person, I thought it should work, this thread convinced me it does, and I checked myself on a friend's bike. If you make a video on this subject, more peopple will know, I'm sure it's useful :) Your audience is not huge, but large enough to make a difference.

[@Groove_C_Arma]

@@LoveMTB can help you with this. Here's how SL-M9100 cover looks: i.imgur.com/GtcIzwI.jpg Here's how SL-M9000 cover looks: i.imgur.com/Z9iwCUT.jpg You remove the plastic I-spec II part from SL-M7000/8000/9000 shifter cover, you keep the bolt. + you need to buy the I-spec EV mounting nut: i.imgur.com/AGNiM7R.jpg i.imgur.com/AE89KkY.jpg Shimano part number: *Y0FB50000* or *Y-0FB50000* Part nr.9: si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-SL-M9100-I-4392.pdf Just FYI, *XTR brake lever has a longer opening for I-spec EV shifter mounting nut than XT or SLX* -> more degrees for reach adjustment and slightly less weight. *Also take a look at my comment on your vid from September comparing SLX, XT and XTR cassettes* I have left a link and DT Swiss part number for eternal ratchet *steel DT Swiss Micro Spline freehub body* that is just slightly heavier than the aluminum one. *3-pawl steel Micro Spline freehub body also now available* , like DT 370 (Syncros). DT Swiss part number also in my other comment. When the freehub body is out of steel, Micro Spline logo is black and when it's out of aluminum, the logo is silver/white. i.imgur.com/i24LQo1.jpg Also if you want me to give you the list of DT Swiss parts (with part numbers) needed to switch your 3-pawl (10 degrees) 370 DT hub to 54T ratchet (6.66 degrees), let me know.

[@Groove_C_Arma]

@@LoveMTB I think that I-spec II mounting nut might be exactly the same as I-Spec EV mounting nut. Would have been normal for any company te reuse as much stuff as possible + 100% produced a lot of this small stuff and this way they don't need to throw it away. i.imgur.com/MrhD4LF.jpg I'm also sure I-spec II mounting nut bolt has same diameter and thread as I-spec EV mounting nut bolt. The only thing I'm nut sure about is whether I-spec II bolt has same length as I-spec EV bolt, since if you remove the plastic I-spec II part, the bolt might be too long then? I think that adding an additional washer to the bolt right after bolt's head, if it's really a little bit too long, would be enough. Don't know the plastic I-spec II part Shimano part number. But I think it would have worked if you have a I-spec II brake lever and want to move to a 12x I-spec EV shifter, by adding this I-spec II plastic part to I-spec EV shifter to direct-mount it to a I-spec II brake lever. *Also not sure* if SLX/XT I-spec EV brake levers have the I-spec EV "rail/opening of same depth as XTR brake lever. So maybe MatchMaker X silver or black "plate" that you insert in I-spec EV "rail/opening" might come out a little bit on SLX/XT I-spec EV brake levers and be completely flush on XTR lever, because of maybe deeper I-spec EV "rail/opening" on XTR brake lever. Also don't konw if MatchMaker X black or silver plate you insert inside bar clamp are of same thickness, since I've heard more than once that one might be slightly thicker than the other. Needs to be checked! If true, one should better buy (order separately/additionally?) the thinner MatchMaker X plate you insert inside the bar clamp to be able to screw in it the screw holding the shifter/dropper remote.

[@duanehundley]

how much did the wolf tooth weigh?

[@aimanmohamed8212]

Can u use the shimano adapter together with the wolf tooth remote instead?

[@aimanmohamed8212]

LoveMTB that’s a bummer

[@geemy9675]

I'd like to replace my 2x lever with a 1x i spec II dropper lever to integrate nicely with my Shimano XT m8000 brakes (Shimano xtr m9000 shifter on the right) but price seems high for just a dumb lever. Shimano doesn't even make ispec II lever, and the price of an ispec II adapter is $15-30, almost tye price of a shifter. I can source a left xtr 9000 for half the price of a dropper lever and have a clean 100% Shimano cockpit but my dropper post has the cable stop on the dropper post side as most droppers (unlike th one in the video). Does anyone have a clean solution to install a second cable stop that could clamp on the cable on the lever side. I don't know if there will be enough clearance to pull the cable as far as possible, put the cable stop, install it in the lever and then use the barrel adjuster? obviously not the easiest to maintain with two cable stops, but I'm wondering if it's possible. I practiced my old X7 shifter and removed the index and the shift release lever, it's fully reversible and the result is quite clean and has smooth operation

[@Morpci]

How did you mount the wolf tooth lever to the ispec-ev?

[@Morpci]

@@LoveMTB Thank you. Do you know if it will work with ZTTO lever as well?

[@pepeanza6187]

I can't believe that shimano don't make a dropper post

[@scottpratico1315]

They dont do frames or suspension so why the post? They seem stuck in the non integrated past. Look how long they lagged on 1x. Behind on 12 speed. Behind on bluetooth. The AXS post is obviously brilliant. Just another reason SRAM is eating their lunch.

[@jamesturner9858]

Does this work for all droppers or specific ones? My bike came with the Roxshox reverb, can this work with it?

[@Groove_C_Arma]

is your Reverb with remote over the bar or under the bar? MatchMaker X clamp or ordinary ring clamp? this? ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb14575361/p4pb14575361.jpg or this? media.karousell.com/media/photos/products/2017/12/05/rockshox_reverb_remote_1512452090_331a30a8.jpg If the first one (MatchMaker X), you should be able to mount it to your Shimano I-Spec EV brake lever.

[@Groove_C_Arma]

@@LoveMTB if MatchMaker X, shoul also work! images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/21/2019/03/evil-reverb-remote-copy-1491298545143-u7bu379dymfc-65f7f1b.jpg?quality=90&resize=960%2C540 Dropper remote with normal over the bar clamp can be upgraded to under the bar dropper remote with MatchMaker X clamp to use it with I-Spec EV brake lever. www.bike24.com/p2215603.html?q=RockShox%20Reverb%201X%20Remote%20Upgrade%20Kit%20A2-B1

[@sonnduro]

The wolftooth just look way better aesthetically. Its cool. For that reason alone is why i went for it over the new shimano one. Every time i look at my bike it just puts a smile on my face and thats when i know i made the right decision with the wolftooth. It my favourite thing on my bike besides the hubs

[@marcin4321100]

Could I mount this Shimano dropper remote with Wolf Tooth adapter Shift Mount ISEV-22 Clamp on left side ??? I have Sram brakes.

[@marcin4321100]

@@LoveMTB Yes I know, but I want to buy Pro Tharsis dropper post and heard that it works superb with mt800 remote (and will change to shimano brakes in near future). Any idea how to mount it on a separate clamp ?

[@BlacqueJacqueShellacque_]

LOL. Came to see how to attach the lever to the brakes...and you skipped over that part. Good try though.

[@mrexon]

Dropper???? LOL we don’t use those in freeride and slope style

[@Groove_C_Arma]

Here's one part you 100% will consider as a must have for one of your bikes, once you have it, so you can forget forever about clearance between ground/obstacle and your chainring. Have it myself for my absolute black oval 30T chainring since I've switched to 1x12. Had to always pay attention to the clearance on my XT 26-36T, since some damage done to some teeth of 36T. It's called *MRP XCg V2 Taco* bashguard (

[@user-rl8pu1fw6w]

酷喔也列出KS元渝

[@givemeakidney]

£57 for a dropper remote is hilarious🤣. That's double what an xt 12 speed shifter costs. That doesn't strike anyone as odd when looking at a comparison of these products on complexity and manufacture?

[@givemeakidney]

@@LoveMTB The only real difference between xt and xtr in my experience is weight on most parts. Many xt parts will actually play longer. The whole aftermarket dropper remote idea is a scam. Brought to you by the people who thought up 650b (virtually identical to 26"). Marketing genius.

[@Groove_C_Arma]

@@LoveMTB that's why I didn't buy XTR cassette. It creaks (friend's bike) + 3 aluminum cogs that will wear out relatively quickly (vs. steel) and that for almost 300€. No - thanks. Would have bought the SLX cassette with only 1 aluminum cog, but its weight... Finally bought XT cassette. The only XT part. I don't see any valid reason to spend almost 300€ for a part that wears out relatively quickly + creaks. Also XTR PD-M9100 pedals are a joke for the price. Seal on both pedals came out and all the grease as well after first ride. Like here forums.mtbr.com/attachments/specialized/691528d1335299666-2012-epic-29er-picture-thread-xtr_m980_bearing_seal.jpg And one of both pedals just separated from the axle. Like here static.bikehub.co.za/uploads/monthly_12_2016/post-34916-0-79734600-1482431086.jpg Never had anything like this, even with cheapest Shimano pedals. Before this I used XT PD-M8020 pedals since 2016 and still have them - like new. No maintenance needed.

[@backwheelpete3210]

why are you singing? stopped watching because of your intonation