Shimizu's death and prisoner executions - Letters from Iwo Jima (硫黄島からの手紙)

[@neilhardie6312]

Sad thing is they were dead either way. The Japanese would have shown up, killed the Marines, and Okubo would have executed them for desertion

[@jasonx-ray3921]

Doesn't matter. If an American wants to keep his soul for God, he doesn't kill the innocent under any circumstances. No matter what. Evil people don't know they are evil because they justify what the do using some kind of devil's arithmetic. The devil says your math was correct, but God knows the answer was wrong. And now, you got eternity in Hell to think it over. Just watch Catholic exorcism videos, and NDE went to hell and back videos. It's all real. Haha! The rumors are true.

[@ericcook4665]

what's realy sad is what the japs did to us in pearl harbor

[@Canadianvoice]

Nope. Japanese troops were allowed to surrender. The problem was USMC didn't take prisoners (it's in their doctrine,) since they have to move too fast typically. They execute prisoners on sight which is illegal to the Geneva conventions America signed. Japan however wasnt obligated to the Geneva code, since they never signed it and yet protected American pows. .funny how history changes things

[@Cyan_Nightingale]

This film perfectly shows both noble and horrifying aspects of Americans and Imperial Japanese. In earlier scene we saw captured American marine was stabbed by group of Japanese soldiers barbarically, but then we saw Colonel Baron Nishi treated the young Marine private so well. In this film we also saw how two American marines who were ordered by their superior to do a guard duty instead shot Shimizu and another Japanese soldier to death, but later we saw Saigo's was treated well and survived the end of war.

[@vilhelmvilhelm2335]

@Iron and Pine what do u mean, they literally killed them because they couldnt bother to care

[@burnbobquist8999]

@ironandpine433 That is one of the lamest BS excuses, if it would have been that way Africa would have been plastered with Wüstenfüchte and Dessert Rats, but nope both sides took many POWs and treated most of them well, even when they were on the offensive.

[@WrathoftheHan]

Yeah that is true. At the end of the war, Rommel's units were virtually free from any wrongdoings. Extremely admirable.@@burnbobquist8999

[@hobbybro3902]

It’s a war crime and failure to follow orders, and I’m not applying and modern standards or sensibilities. That’s against the rules of war at the time, and now too. War is just barbaric and senseless, a vile human behavior that will haunt us to extinction.

[@MajorDook1]

Thank you for explaining everything that is easily understood just by watching the movie🙄

[@seyedpasandideh]

Americans killed surrendering Japanese because they would feign surredner. But I am 100% sure things like this happened many times in real event as well.

[@loganb7059]

Absolutely. It’s a cycle of cruelty. One side (japan) has units behave with barbaric cruelty to prisoners. Then individual soldiers on the other side, with the assumed trust that prisoners will be treated with humility broken, respond in kind. And the individuals from the first side, who might not be as radical, see the other side execute prisoners, enraging them and spurring further violence to prisoners. For the average Japanese soldier in 1944, they’re executing and abusing prisoners because they expect the Americans to do the same to them. Of course, it cannot be ignored that there wouldn’t be such wonton cruelty if the Japanese had simply not been so barbaric to prisoners in the first place.

[@Frankie2012channel]

True, but if they're checked for weapons, then they are truly surrendering. Yes, t he Imperials were terrible, but at the same time, it sucks that Americans did the same thing. For one thing, if it's known that you kill all prisoners, then that motivates the enemy to fight to the death. Not a very bright idea, by either the Japanese OR the Americans.

[@zackdeew9757]

@C Gzlez how about Peleliu?? Marines there literally show their brutality by taking gold teeth from Japanese soldier alive

[@kennyhale3125]

@@loganb7059 Have you never heard of the "Rape of Nanking" or the atrocities the Japanese inflicted on the Korean people? The Japanese way of treating prisoners did not start on the Pacific islands. It was literally their way of conducting warfare. The Marines knew long before Iwo what would have to them if they were captured.

[@loganb7059]

@@kennyhale3125 at no point did I insinuate that their behavior started in the islands. I was speaking specifically on that one part of the greater whole of Japanese war crimes, specifically how it is their war crimes which directly caused American war crimes against Japanese prisoners. To the point that by 1944 and 1945, the Americans were committing acts of cruelty and barbarism which can only be looked back on in shame today.

[@nicoterhorst]

The interesting point depicted in this movie is that Shimizu, the Japanese soldier who was shot after surrendering, undergoes a transition from a typical fanatical IJA soldier who would willingly die for the emperor&country and never surrender to an ordinary human being who desires to live and return to his family alive. I'm sure that such transition did happen more often than not among many Japanese soldiers during the war, though their war crimes were egregious back then…

[@TheAceuu]

These guys clearly were surrendering it would take anyone with more than 2 brain cells 3 seconds to understand

[@glennmarata5805]

Phenomenal acting by that guy who played Saigo

[@ScottyShaw]

The actor is Ninomiya Kazunari. He's primarily a singer, but I think he's done some other movies.

[@이훈희_Hoon-Lee]

Snafu : Out of the way, Hirohito

[@jeffgreer198613]

😂

[@sledgehammer22]

Japanese surrendered more than myth, even though the number was smaller than the Germans. But after the Americans witnessed their hideous atrocities and fake surrender, they stopped caring about the white flags the Japanese soldiers waved and gunned down any of them attempting to surrender. Many Marine veterans state that executing Japanese prisoners was not rare because of the intense hatred they had against them and the inhospitable conditions of Pacific Islands which made taking prisoners impractical.

[@e0001030]

True, in these islands even water may be hard to get. When they can't even take care of their own, they tends to not give a sh** to prisoners. Also, environment in these islands do break human mentally - smell of rotten dead bodies, lack of resources, high temperature and humidity, toxic insects...etc, all these wear out sympathy.

[@隔壁阿艺]

@@e0001030 Why did the Bataan Death March happen? What caused it? The Japanese army is also for the reason you said, but westerners say that the Japanese army is brutal and cruel, and public opinion is never fair. The winner represents justice.

[@Googleユーザー-v5h]

The one-sided story that Japanese soldiers were cruel. There are quite a few anti-Japaneseists who happily believe this.

[@KalashVodka175]

@@隔壁阿艺 It's not westerners alone who say that the Japanese army was cruel and horrible. In fact, more often than not, Westerners helped up cover up Japan's attrocities, because it had become a good ally to the US. Those who vehemently accuse Japan of war crimes tend to be China and Korea (and to a lesser extent the Philippines, tho Philippinos are more fogiving peoples)

[@Ihavpickle]

216 Japanese surrendered on iwo jima. The fighting was obviously brutal, and honestly, I understand why the Americans executed Japanese prisoners.

[@cleburne1863]

This happened more often than people know or want to admit. I have many WW2 American 1st person memoirs where they shot surrendered enemy POWs. It was often a situational necessity. They were on patrol, and they didn't have the resources to guard prisoners and complete their mission. They can't let them go to fight again (think Steamboat Willie in Saving Private Ryan). Then the death of future soldiers on your side would be on your shoulders. So they were killed. All sides did it. Americans are just people, and have no moral high ground in this regard. War is barbaric for all concerned. This scene perfectly illustrates this. Put yourself in the Marine's place. Are you going to stay there in the middle of nowhere and guard two prisoners, when you could be jumped and ambushed out of the dark at any moment? Or are you going to do what needs to be done to survived. You live, and they die, or they live and you die. Its just as simple and brutal as that, and what many faced.

[@kempaku982]

That is just an excuse. If that is acceptable, then what the Japanese did was acceptable.

[@cleburne1863]

@@kempaku982 Its not an excuse. Its morally wrong regardless of who does it. Its just the reality of what happened.

[@kempaku982]

@@cleburne1863 you literally tried to make excuses by doing the whole "put yourself in their place" bullshit.

[@mrblack888]

@@kempaku982 Correct. All acts in war are acceptable, the only crime is to lose.

[@cleburne1863]

@@kempaku982 Maybe English isn't your first language, so I'll define "excuse" for you. An excuse in an attempt to justify an action. I am not attempting to justify their action. In my response I even said it was morally wrong. What I am doing is explaining why they did it and asking people to put themselves in the soldier's shoes and look at it from their perspective. Maybe show some human empathy for the veteran who had to make these life or death survival decisions, and later spent their Friday nights looking down the barrel of a pistol wondering if this would be the night they pull the trigger. Or who woke up their wife thrashing with night terrors from a past they couldn't escape.

[@犬井巧]

俺やったらこんな敵打てねえよ、

[@chasingsunset9801]

We can't deny that history and the legacy we have is stained by collateral murder from both sides...

[@NarcolypticNinja]

Hardly NOT and can deny the BS that we did more or as much to Japan than they to us because that is denial of just how evil japan was at the time.

[@CrankTheHank-_-]

@@NarcolypticNinja yeah sure dude.. i am willing to bet that u think the USA has the "cleanest" hands on the globe in terms of terror and wars.

[@KurasakiBleachigo1]

Do not even pretend the US committed even a 10th of the war atrocities that the Japanese did

[@logicalatheist1065]

Japan was terrible in those days, what they did in China was unforgivable for imperial soldiers

[@1olddirtroad]

And we weren't there and didn't endure the death that they did...so we shouldn't pass judgement on those that were. Frequently I pass over a Memorial bridge that was named after a 19 year old Pharmacist Mate who fought hard helping his Marines to survive. He threw 8 grenades back and the 9th one exploded in his hand killing him. Never Forget our Hero's and Medal Of Honor Winner John Harlan Willis

[@溶融塩電解-m3j]

勝てば官軍負ければ賊軍

[@ytanonymity3585]

Battle of Kohima&Imphal in Burmese and Meatgrinder in Iwo Jima campaign were basically Hamburger Hill before Hamburger Hill in vietnam

[@jonathanallard2128]

You need to grind the meat before being able to make hamburgers so the logic works.

[@jonathanallard2128]

Also the small hill bastions of the Shuri line on Okinawa are similar nasty fights for small hills. Half Moon hill, Conical Hill, Sugar Loaf were all similar. Almost unnoticeable bump in the ground during peace time becomes theatre for bitter multi-day fight at war. The battle for Sugar Loaf hill would've made Satan especially proud of the effort of man at creating for themselves horrors worthy of his 6th circle of hell. The shit I read on it are unimaginable. That people went through that and came back is insane.

[@christianrowbotham7386]

It's such a sad scene but so powerful

[@envitech02]

War crimes were committed by both sides.

[@GoLakers3900]

Much, much, much more so by the Japanese. Don't down play their heinous war crimes by inferring everyone involved in the war were equally guilty.

[@BleedingUranium]

@@GoLakers3900 You're the one inferring "equal", and using sweeping generalizations on top of that, utterly missing the point of the film. It doesn't matter what "side" committed "more" in some big picture sense, because at the end of the day all actions are performed by individuals, and all individuals deserve to be judged only for their own actions. There's literally a quartet of scenes in this film that drives this home, with Japanese soldiers beating and bayoneting an American, other Japanese who care for and connect with another American, these Americans who gun down prisoners just because they can't be bothered with them, and other Americans who keep their cool and don't shoot a desperate young man armed with nothing but a shovel. All of them were individuals making their own choices, and that's what ACTUALLY matters. "The Japanese" this and "the Americans" that is precisely the sort of generalizing and dehumanizing that leads to these sorts of atrocities in the first place.

[@GoLakers3900]

@@BleedingUranium It's painfully obvious you are clueless to the numerous crimes against humanity the Imperial Japanese committed during the 20th century. Do you have any children? Are they babies? Do you know what happened to certain babies nearly a hundred years ago when Japanese soldiers were around? Do you want to know?

[@meathead6155]

2:23 He reminds me Team Fortress 2 soldier.

[@Adam-ui9qj]

IF GOD HAD WANTED YOU TO LIVE HE WOULD NOT HAVE CREATED ME

[@davidmacfarlane4761]

I am ready to fight robots!

[@SteeIBrigade]

I actually felt really bad for those prisoners.

[@_ArsNova]

Any sane human with any degree of empathy would. Allied war crimes are often overlooked or completely dismissed.

[@morammofilmsph1540]

@Idk You never fought in that war. What do you know about karma?

[@707EvoX]

@Idk just because their government was evil doesn't mean the soldiers were. What my country (The US) did in Iraq was evil. Yet I greatly respect those who served in the war. They were just doing their duty.

[@kenjeknowsbest]

@@707EvoX If your dutiful in the name of evil, is it to be respected? Where is the line? I am not criticizing, I just think that is an interesting thought because there is no easy answer.

[@DoctorDoomsPvP]

@@kenjeknowsbest They were fighting for their nation. "Evil" is made-up and subjective.

[@Ghastly_Grinner]

Why would you leave 2 guys to keep watch didn't the enemy just surender from over the hill behind them?

[@agagqbq]

What would usually happen is the two soldiers left behind are supposed to return prisoners to base camp. These two soldiers decided to skip that step and just kill the prisoners so they wouldnt have to do any effort.

[@tompiper9276]

It didn't make a lot of sense, if you escort prisoners back to your own lines you get a small break from the combat area. Might only be a couple of hours but it's still worth having.

[@ProfSir1]

What a horrible way to go.

[@mattchelseadavis]

This broke my heart

[@zacharynunley]

This type of post surrender execution is simply inexcusable and those two marines should be tried for war crimes. Now had they shot the “surrendering” Japanese troops rather than approaching them disarming them, and accepting their surrender, then it could’ve been excused under the precedent that the Japanese would often fake a surrender then blow up themselves and the soldiers who tried to accept their surrender with grenades or landlines hidden on their person.

[@TruthFiction]

Do cite which applicable war crime they committed. Keep in mind also, Japan refused to sign the Geneva Conventions so you can't use them as your source because they didn't apply. Makes it hard to charge someone if there is no crime unless you happen to win a World War and make up crimes to charge with and ignore the legalities of that.

[@alanball5750]

@@TruthFiction Do you ignore speed limits outside your home country, or do you abide by them? Take the analogy from there, and mix in a little bit of humanity. Geneva conventions are applied in a universal manner, and should not be applied in an arbitrary manner.

[@TheDickChappy97]

If you knew about half the horrific shit the Japanese did in pretty much every theatre they fought in. Then you’d know a bullet is being kind compared to what they’d do to you. Highly recommend Dan Carlins series “Supernova in the East” where he covers Japans involvement in WWII from start to end and even post war.

[@zacharynunley]

@@TheDickChappy97 I am well aware of the atrocities committed by the Japanese in WWII, my great grandfather was a POW from 1942-1945 in the Cabanatuan POW camp in the Philippines. Also my great grandfather often stated that anyone who committed a war crime against the Japanese was equally guilty as the Japanese who committed war crimes against allied troop and civilians. It doesn’t matter what the Japanese did to others, it’s still a war crime and they should still be prosecuted, because they knew they were disarmed, just because the Japanese committed atrocities doesn’t give us the right to do the same. If you continue to argue otherwise then you are arguing for the idea that two wrongs makes a right, and to think that way is simply wrong, so I surely hope that you don’t believe in a such a principal.

[@alexmcauliffe749]

Killing of prisoner is obviously a war crime. However, Marines firsthand had witnessed how their captured comrades were brutally tortured and maltreated by the Japanese, and had often seen those Japs faking surrender with a hidden grenade or weapon. I do remember how the former Marines E. Sledge and R. Burgin were furious about the Japanese and made it clear “have no any compassion for Japs” in their interviews. I learned many of captured Japanese soldiers were executed by the US soldiers too, but considering how inhumane and bloodthirsty the Japanese were, it is fairly understandable.

[@churclan000]

Well nobody really were tried for war crimes from the Americans or allied side because that would make the military look bad. Good thing the Allies war crimes were a very very small number

[@ガンバレルーヤ僕]

なんか、都合のいい考え方してるな。 連合国軍だって負けないくらい残酷だったよどう考えても

[@ILoveFunAndTheWorld]

@@churclan000 well I am also sure that despite those stories, mortality rate under American captivity wasnt nearly as high as under Japanese…

[@よっちゃんイカ-v3e]

アメリカ原爆落としたやん

[@Cyan_Nightingale]

Which is why this film fairly portrays both sides' nobility and cruelness.

[@VoyagerSSY]

There was a scene in Saving private Ryan surrendered german soldiers were killed by marines .

[@joecha9746]

This is where Saigo loses all hope of surviving

[@CzarScruffington]

This reminds me of the scene from letters to Iwo Jima

[@colinator3043]

It was said that US Marines rarely took any Japanese POWs the more they got closer to the homeland. The Japanese would often play dead/wounded or fake a surrender then reveal grenades or pistol when a allied soldier was in reach and attempt to kill them. I don’t condone the act that Marine did but nor can I blame him. If I lost my friend to the enemy because he faked a surrendered I definitely would’ve acted in vengeance

[@alexnadremercier5724]

The scene where Saigo sheds tears upon discovering that his friend has been killed is heart-wrenching. However, given what the Japanese did throughout the war, it was a form of poetic justice.

[@box-yarou]

南京？あれは中国政府の誇張だよ バターン死の行進？有色人種にやられたのがよほど悔しいのか？ 白人が世界にしたことの方がどう考えても許されない事だね インディアンに土地を返してとっとと欧州やらイギリスに帰れアメリカ野郎 本当にお前らが大嫌いなんだよ

[@burnbobquist8999]

Every time i read comments like that it i like to point out that a lot of the horrible things the japanese imperial army did, was not presented in the Tokyo trials due to one simple fact: the US did the same shit and it would has come to light of the world if they had brought it up in those trials.

[@Mrtotot]

@@burnbobquist8999 There was a bitter Hatred between US soldiers and the Japanese and that's what blows my mind about the war in the pacific, the sheer brutality. You could argue that the Marines upon seeing how the Japanese were going to be decided to return it in kind.

[@Mrtotot]

The Japanese would often feign surrender because of the bushido code so Marines specifically in response stopped taking prisoners. It sounds unethical but everyone was scared for their lives all the time. That island hopping campaign was insanity.

[@iexist.imnotjoking5700]

Dumbest shit I've heard in... Not a long time. But it's pretty dumb.

[@martinelliotedwards1883]

Well that was depressing

[@jonathanallard2128]

Then the movie did its job. If you don't leave a war movie feeling like you just witnessed the saddest and horrible side of mankind, it's a shitty war movie.

[@kingstarscream3807]

@@jonathanallard2128 Nah sometimes it's nice to have a rip-roaring adventure too, like Kelly's Heroes and Where Eagles Dare.

[@TheAceuu]

@@jonathanallard2128or you just lack empathy like me which I’m trying to fix

[@Andurilflame]

very very sad moment in the film.

[@joewhitehead3]

I’m guessing that Marine had Pearl Harbor on his mind when he did that

[@box-yarou]

真珠湾なんて殆ど軍人しか死んでないだろ お前らアメリカ野郎は都市部の民間人を狙って爆撃したがな

[@austinporter6701]

Very common occurrence to kill the pow the canadians did it the americans did it everyone did. You never ever surrender alone or in a small group. The other side needs to keep moving forward and dont have time resources to look after a pow the cold hard truth is its easier to just kill them.

[@TruthFiction]

No, the Marines on Iwo Jima had fought on several islands previously and had a lot of experience with Japanese soldiers faking surrender, killing prisoners and refusing to give up. They had LOTS of opportunities to dehumanize them.

[@whyareyouevenreadingmyname950]

​@jonathanbirch2022that and well don't wanna get potentially blown up by a hidden grenade

[@archravenineteenseventeen]

​@jonathanbirch2022the fact that the army went there later proves that those prisoners will be saved and the 2 marines will be the ones who will be murdered instead

[@duncanidaho2130]

Kinda tough to show if you ask me.

[@hirokoura9676]

Japanese soldiers at that time did not have the Bushido code. To begin with, medieval samurai often surrendered to their enemies. Even during the Sino-Japanese War, when there were still real samurai in the military, there was no shame in surrendering. However, when bounties were placed on the heads of Japanese soldiers during the Sino-Japanese War, most of the Japanese POWs were killed by Chinese soldiers, and only one Japanese soldier returned to Japan after the war. Since around this time, military leaders began to tell soldiers that they would rather die than surrender. Gradually, this concept changed to the idea that surrendering is shameful. In addition, a military code called "Senjin-Kun'' was issued and it clearly documented. people often use the term Bushido Code to talk about Japanese soldiers during WW2, but it is not accurate.

[@ricarte1986]

Nah bro I saw alot of war movies if I ever was at war with america I ain’t surrendering

[@pat0343]

Just remember the Bataan Death March.

[@kvvhhbcfybcdfgcxd]

どっちの事を考えると遣瀬ないよな。

[@どっぽおろちっち]

there weren’t justice.

[@井上直哉-b9b]

西郷だけが生き残ってしまった、、、

[@Thebroshow13]

This movie is a lot like platoon

[@内服アナーキーハンドル]

恵み🍍パイナップル袋レター送りを送る

[@内服アナーキーハンドル]

冬のブンセンクローバー

[@よっちゃん-s7z]

これが鬼畜米兵と言われる所以だな

[@sekipao0112]

日本でもあったし 今、戦争してるウクライナでさえ ロシア兵の捕虜を殺す動画があるよ

[@蒼穹空人]

海兵隊に投降するより陸軍に投降する方が少しは生存率あがりそうですね！

[@Xycomm]

@@蒼穹空人 don’t you know they are recruited from insane asylums and prisons?

[@japanosushi]

これが現実です。日本軍もアメリカ軍も同じことをしました。戦争に負けた日本国は悪者にされました。戦争に勝ったアメリカ合衆国は正義の英雄です。笑っちゃうよ。

[@StephenLuke]

どうして？

[@whyareyouevenreadingmyname950]

You guys really need to get into reading history a bit more before saying stuff like this.

[@ガイル-o7p]

​@@whyareyouevenreadingmyname950No, before you do that you should read the comments of some of the Americans here. You will understand why he might want to say that.

[@deadhorse1391]

That Nambu 8 mm dropped that guy like a sledgehammer! 😃 I talked to many WWII vets and they told me they would shoot any Japanese surrendering unless they had stripped down to their Breech cloths because they would hide grenades in their clothing Had one vet tell me one even had a grenade in their Breech cloth but failed to go off After that they shot them all out of hand

[@aldrichcruz9321]

They had no choice they will be fall behind cuz the Marine group didnt even get back to their unit who were guarding them instead they put him out of his misefy before leaving cuz this is war same goes for the Airbornes on Western Front since they were behind lines and had to fight the enemy

[@sho1455]

Victory justifies evil.

[@torek1006]

The end never justified the means

[@protennis365]

That why we nuke them.

[@johnwhite2576]

Love all these post hoc half century moralization….we’ve no standing to judge until you’ve fought in a war, let alone imo. I should thin k these same humanists concern would be better served to support deterrence so that nobody is faced with these moral decisions. No more war, but if there is, it must necessarily be nasty.

[@迷言王子]

鬼畜米英とは誠の話であった。

[@joshuanitura9376]

to surrender is a disgrace, its better to die in my own hands rather than the enemy

[@yunarukami14]

Okay, let's see you be tough in an actual battlefield setting

[@吉弘久米]

@@yunarukami14 ye, he'll surrender before the battle

[@BesoffenerIslamist]

Sure, anime nerd

[@Kitxne]

@@吉弘久米 He'll probably surrender once he is exposed to military training🤣

[@donjorge8329]

Grow up, kid

[@KILROY94]

this is your „greatest generation“

[@TruthFiction]

And yet still thousands of times better than yours.

[@TheAceuu]

No doubt they struggled and prevailed but at what cost? They came home with ptsd and beat their wives and kids (generalizing but I mean a looooot of kids were absolutely smoked by their ww2 fathers) my grandpas on both sides both have horrible memories of their fathers beating them after the war German and American ww2 vets