Ships Have Discourse Now, Deal With It (Glass of Water)

Alie says your ship is trash.
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[@LewysC]

4:34 - Can we just get a remake of Rise of Skywalke- in fact, how about the entire sequel trilogy with these two characters please. Thank you!

[@LilianOrchard]

I have wonderful news for you archiveofourown.org/works/22215277/chapters/53041795

[@darthslain]

@@LilianOrchard well...i know what im doing for the next few minutes

[@aitipsea3909]

@@LilianOrchard you absolute madlass :P

[@WitchFisterVeo1911]

I'll be honest, this would blow the original trilogy out of the water and into the upper atmosphere.

[@LewysC]

Lily Orchard When a piece of fanfiction is better than your third sequel multi million dollar extravaganza shitshow of a movie you know you might be doing something wrong 😂

[@PureAwesamness]

Tony and no Please Just no

[@heliianth]

Sam Rowett ikr. makes me want to gag >:c

[@requiem6465]

The worst thing is how they can take wholesome positive ships and turn them into abusive toxic grimderp.

[@felipe_drawmania1604]

The edge is too powerful for some to resist.

[@relaxinginwonderland62]

Like bumblebee? (Rwby)

[@entr3_nou5]

I’m not big into kinkshaming, but it’s mind boggling how people think that writing smutfics involving wholesome couples doing unmentionable things to each other (in an abusive rapey way, not a kinky way) is a turn-on for people. That shit’s gross, aight?

[@couragew6260]

SyrinxPriest2112 Correct!

[@theredgrin6765]

grimderp. A fine addition to my vocabulary.

[@saywihee]

Ugh! I hate it when people try and make me drink when I don't drink! Moral of Lily's video is: You're not a bad person if you realize you're wrong and then change. You're bad if you try and double down in your denial.

[@sparktwochristopher7240]

What if you're considered a bad person and you know you're a bad person, but don't try to change because you don't like the idea of what passes as "good"?

[@LilianOrchard]

@@sparktwochristopher7240 Again: Nobody gets a consequence free environment

[@werh227]

@@sparktwochristopher7240 don't influence other people, a fool who keeps silence can be considered wise. Maybe get into silencing yourself about your interests, so that others don't get affected. Keep it in your head forever. You can restrain yourself and try to never hurt other people . This is obviously a bit destructive on yourself, but if you want to keep your problematic behaviour you should acknowledge it and don't ever let other people get hurt from your problematic side. You can also try to change, change what you like so that you don't end up lashing out with your bottled emotions.

[@threedicksonabench3141]

I like this message, honestly.

[@elgatoreportro2695]

so im a good person for being a huge d[¨k but knowing it?

[@creativepseudonym9872]

Jesus, Mary and Joseph! I only saw the Peter and Tony dynamic as more of father and son thing at best, not... THAT!

[@sandywolfr26]

That how it was written too. What is wrong with those who ship them?! Did people forget that there is other type of relationships? Not just the love kind

[@creativepseudonym9872]

@@sandywolfr26 I could chalk it up to people just being strange, but- Peter is a freaking child! But yeah, romantic love isn't the only type of love and I think people forget that.

[@crypkid2276]

Ye, I don't understand it either and I always need people to clarify what versions of the characters they are talking about first. Starker is a very old ship that was born from the comics where Tony and Peter have different dynamic and one of em' isn't a freckin' child.

[@Jackie-McCann]

Agreed.

[@basilnottheherb]

I was laughing till you put tony and peter. Humans were a mistake

[@sultanmalik9808]

No, those particular Humans need to be removed from the Gene-Pool.

[@basilnottheherb]

@@sultanmalik9808 is forced therapy an option?

[@my2case]

@@basilnottheherb how about forceful genetic modification to make them not a shit person?

[@AspenBrightsoul]

I feel one quote sums this up quite well. “In the beginning the Universe was created. This had made many people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.”

[@sugaschild7917]

Basil Not The Herb yes , yes we are

[@frostfairy40]

When you said people shipped Tony Stark and Peter Parker I almost threw up everything I’ve ever eaten.

[@BorkShibe]

Same here!

[@basilnottheherb]

Right?!

[@roberthatton454]

My brain: imma bout to head out

[@drkholdtmnt]

I cri when it’s MCU Tony Stark and Peter Park. When it’s COMIC!Peter and Tony then idc because he’s an adult in the comics from what I’ve seen or read.

[@lunatree9139]

That's disgusting in the movies there like father and son 🤮🤮🤮

[@simoncorg]

"Worrying about these things dont matter because this is fiction!" -a Reylo fan who sent death threats to J.J. Abrhams because they didnt get their way Edit: also, just to let you know, peter is like, 15-16 while Tony is in his 40s to 50s.

[@Justme-wm8vr]

@@Phos906 Fascinating. This reaction is *exactly* what the video was talking about. This person is confronted with the reality that a ship they like, or maybe someone they know likes, is toxic and problematic beyond belief. Yet instead of acknowledging that and doing some soul-searching, they instead, double down, deflect and find some limp-dick non-argument to focus on, hoping against hope that people will forget that they're literally defending the romanticisation of pedophilia. Thank you, for being such a great case study. Tell me, what other strawmen, non-arguments and whataboutisms are hiding in that marvelous, change-allergic mind of yours? I'd love to know.

[@Paytonzane]

"The human mind is a miracle, and you will never see it spring more beautifully into action than when it's fighting against evidence that it needs to change. Your psyche is equipped with layer after layer of defense mechanisms designed to shoot down anything that might keep things from staying exactly the way they are." Either I've read that somewhere before, or even better, you've SAID this exact thing before, which wouldn't surprise me considering how rampant these toxic ships are in their fandom.

[@LilianOrchard]

Both

[@JaniHorvat1]

She said that in an older video and it is also stated in an article on Cracked.

[@shadowpuppet8192]

Space

[@jasperbriggs7591]

Hell even Steven Universe Future flat out in a episode said that Lars and Sadie were bad for each other and both had self reflections to do. Lars found his self worth and Sadie kick started her music career and found a Non Binary partner. Both of them came out healthier for it. So many people attached to the Lars and Sadie ship were salty that the writers found this to be the right call. Shippers and fandom in general don’t care about canon or anything else if it contradicts their perspective.

[@tenkenroo]

I think a lot of people were salty because Lars was a completely different character and wish we could have seen how that played out wether they stayed together or split up. It was just boom new significant other we are told is perfect for Sadie rather then seeing it play out. But that’s just me

[@kylepope7850]

@The Wolf You can thank Rebecca Sugar's death grip on the Steven Only Perspective for that. Many important plot developments happened off screen just so we can watch Steven bum around Beach City.

[@juliantapia1407]

@@kylepope7850 Not to mention choosing to redeem and develop Lars in the first place. Ronaldo, or anyone else, would've been much better. But that's just another log on the fire

[@cryptid6279]

people don't seem to understand that it's okay to imply relationships in shows and not go through with it or have them break up.

[@juliantapia1407]

@@cryptid6279 Context matters. If you're going to hint at something strongly enough, you need to kinda come through with it. From there, develop it, break it, explore it in some tangible way.

[@PBee-hd2by]

One of the best books I read was while I was in middle school. It was marketed as a vampire romance novel, which it was... for the first half of the book. Once the guy revealed himself as a vampire it escalated to a full-blown horror novel. All romantic tension between the two leads was gone and it became a terrifying game of cat-and-mouse as the MC tried to survive being under the same roof with this monster. And, god, I can't tell you how relieved I was and how much it improved the story. Through out the first half (when it was played as a romance), the vampire dude was such a manipulative and toxic person who gaslit the MC at every turn. He isolated her from her friends and family and persistently used her naivety to his advantage. I was holding out for something to happen and surprise! Something did, and for the books benefit! What became a dangerous YA romance cliche turned into clever foreshadowing and a good setup for the second half. The MC became more compelling and got genuine character conflict, as well as several opportunities to display her cleverness. The vampire dude became an interesting/scary villain who made me feel uneasy everytime he was in a scene. The final confrontation, which ends with the MC killing her abuser and saving her little brother (you find out the vampire was also grooming her brother earlier) felt SO satisfying. It makes me wonder if the author planned it out like this or if she actually tried to write a romance but, after seeing just how abusive the LI was, decided "fuck it" and changed him into an antagonist. I want more of that. That was kickass. That made me feel empowered and motivated! That made my younger self think "Wow, I deserve someone who treats me right and if anyone tries to pull this shit I should kick them in the groin. I have the power to fight back for myself and others." Less glorification of toxic/abusive relationships and more letting victims knock their abusers' teeth in.

[@XaiEia]

I'm not into vampire stuff but do you still remember the name? Sounds like a good read

[@A_Sterling_Rose]

I would like to know the name of this book if you remember it. If not, I'm just glad that it even exists.

[@vernyulkisasszony4708]

What's the name of the book? It sounds really interesting!

[@jessaadkins9589]

I've got to know the name of this book

[@guidestone1392]

Sounds like a good read. What's the title?

[@Mysticgamer]

I wonder how many Reylo fans were Twilight fans?

[@ataraxia1789]

That is a good question. I wouldn't be surprised at all if those people also liked riverdale.

[@PoisonCupCakes1]

I know where you're coming from in the comparison, and I think there is some similarities, but I do think we need to remember that there is a lot to unpack in the vampire/teen romance vs an a abusive relationship with reylo. It's been probably a literal decade since I read anything with twilight, and I'm sure there was unsavory fan culture, but majority of the fans were teenage girls who had the hots for Edward or Jacob. 100 yr old vampire marrying 18 yr old girl? Lots of problems. And of course there were disgusting older women who made things much much worse (EL James...) but I don't remember Bella ever being treated bad or doing something she didn't want to do in the books. I can totally be corrected. Again, been a decade. But Reylo IS abuse 101. The source material makes everything the ship touches toxic by nature, especially when I've seen mostly older fans into the ship. So could an young twilight fan have grown up into a Reylo fan? Sure, it's possible, but I think there's still a difference btw a zeitgeist for teenage girls who got swept away by a sparkly vampire and a clearly abusive relationship that is being promoted by adults who should know better.

[@chrisgostanian6753]

It’s not surprising that anyone would forget the more abusive parts as they are mostly in the boring middle parts of the books, but they are there. For example, Edward forbids Bella from speaking to people he doesn’t approve of, and when she doesn’t obey he rips the engine out of her truck so that she has to rely on him for transportation.

[@Mysticgamer]

@@chrisgostanian6753 And also didnt edward try to break up with bella by going to his families house only for bella to due suicidal stuff to make him come back to her?

[@PoisonCupCakes1]

@@Mysticgamer Not gonna lie I thought that was like... The one responsible thing Edward did? Like I can't remember his exact reason for leaving, but on the off chance he realized how unhealthy the relationship was to Bella and that's why he left? Yes it impacted her mental health, but she did begin to cope with Jacob, though not exactly in healthy ways. Honestly, it is a reality that teens have died by suicide because of break ups. It's happening a lot more I believe then when twilight first came out, but I don't take Bella's reaction as out of the norm. Really had Alice never shown up, Bella might have gone on to have a kinda normal life.

[@instantmiso9788]

lily be spitting straight facts -my dad who listens to your videos when i watch them but pretends he doesn't

[@thedemoncat4624]

My mom has literally been referring to children of any species as 'babus' after she overheard Ish Da Babu.

[@RancidKari]

The Demon Cat lmao

[@sdpearshaped831]

This is really wholesome. I needed something wholesome to recover from the exestential crisis I was experiencing from hearing that Tony and Peter is an actual ship that someone came up with.

[@RancidKari]

SD Pearshaped lmao

[@elsiemae5182]

If lily had included anime in that list of toxic ships this video would be to long to fathom. For example if you’ve heard of black butler you know that one of the most popular ships is one between a 12 year old boy and an 1000 year old demon... wow.

[@instantmiso9788]

Plus Levi and Eren. Those shipper entirely forget the fact that Levi actually beat the living shit out of Eren and continues to treat him terribly.

[@mattiemedia4096]

That actually brings up a good point because I watch plenty of anime and I know there is plenty of he*ai made about all of them, but what people seem to forget is there ages because a large portion of anime characters are in there teens. For a more extreme example the visual novel nekopara has the main character have s*x with his two cat girls who he said are like daughters to him and who are 9 MONTHS OLD!

[@lizzytheowl577]

In My Hero Academia: Some people ship Bakugo and Midoriya, even though Bakugo literally beat up Midoriya their entire childhood and told him to commit suicide on at least one occasion. Also there's people who ship some students with some teachers, another mark in the pedophilia column.

[@8lefry8]

So true tho. And I've met people that say "Nooo Sebastian is a demon so he's doesn't have an age, meaning that this ship is okkaaayyyy..."

[@cratwane]

Plus there’s no game no life

[@jamdeluxe7456]

it really confuses me that a fandom actually took a canon wholesome lesbian ship, and replaced it with having a straight ship between the protagonist some random creep that doesn’t care about her.

[@felipe_drawmania1604]

Alastor is classy and a fan favorite,with most of his characteristics being shown with him Interacting with Charlie,they saw an opportunity and grabbed It.

[@sadtitties222]

@Jam Deluxe Not to take away from your original comment (because I totally agree with you except I actually love Alastor, lol), but I believe that Charlie is a canon bisexual, so her relationship with V would not be a lesbian relationship and instead would be a WLW relationship (or just gay if you want a broader term). I'm hoping not to come off as condescending or rude towards you, it's just that erasure of bisexual characters is so prominent in so many fandoms and I just had to point out that little piece of information. Again, I really hope that I did not come off as rude towards you. I just wanted to share. Honestly though, if people wanna ship Charlie with a guy so much why not create your own oc that just happens to be a guy and he could actually treat her right? I don't think Alastor would be the one to do that, but whatever. Shippers gonna ship, I guess.

[@LillFluffPotato]

@@sadtitties222 totes agree. could also use saphic instead of wlw

[@sadtitties222]

@@LillFluffPotato Ah yes, Sapphic is also another broader and commonly used term. Thanks. :)

[@MangoMagica]

And also Allastor is canonically asexual

[@dilftomnookbutno4700]

Let's not forget all the other terrible ships of Gravity Falls such as- BillDip, a ship between a twelve year old boy and the Dorito who possessed him, started an apocalypse, tortured his uncle and attempted to kill his family multiple times. Mabill, which is just BillDip but straight. BillFord, which is just BillDip but with Stanford instead of Dipper. Stancest, because we can't get enough of siblings boning each other. I have more.

[@jazzyethecrimefighter]

Thats all a load of EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

[@dilftomnookbutno4700]

@@audioknight6513 I know right? And then with Mabill, you either get a story about bad guy meets cute girl and stops being bad, or a story of a twelve year old girl being raped by a power hungry Dorito.

[@Lantos92]

Oh god no

[@sparktwochristopher7240]

I think most of these ships rely on the appearance of the characters. If they look good or look cute, then they're sold. In fanfiction, they just change those characters into something entirely different. It's basically their own versions of the characters rather than the actual canon characters themselves.

[@penmars9530]

If you think Gravity Falls is bad, Sofia the First is worse. The most popular ship is Cedfia- Sofia who’s eight to eleven and Cedric who’s in his thirties.

[@GoddessofAnubis]

I used to ship really huge age gaps, and some incest, and then in therapy realized I had been molested. It was my way of coping, writing horrible things I couldn't publish and I used to be touchy about it. Then I realized...why. Why do I defend it so ravenously? And it caused me to seek therapy and caused the tidal wave of my opinions changing. Also you've helped me immensely Lily, with your direct attitude and ways of explaining things. Geeky nerd boys, and the reylos, didn't mature to that next step. I went thru it late, and they NEVER did. It seems to be a reoccurring trend lately...

[@winda4913]

It’s a much more popular coping mechanism than people think. Not a very good one, but more popular than most believe. Glad you’re getting help, hope you’ve healed since then.

[@elcalabozodelandroide2]

Xd

[@lalaliet]

Honestly, people who do think that romantic relationships should actually be put in proper therapy. It's what I used to think, and that was a seriously abusive and co-dependant relationship. He controlled my money, and screamed at me if I refused. At least I'm out of there, but some people don't see it. I only saw it because my friend (now girlfriend) pointed it out and helped me escape.

[@lalaliet]

*Think that romantic relationship are caretaker relationships

[@momoteacup]

Good for you for recognizing it and getting out.💜 I hope that you’re in a much better place now.

[@Fractorification]

Funny story about the Elsana ship. I once read a very well written fanfic of Frozen that dealt with Elsa’s life after the first movie dealing with a kingdom and paranoid extremists who were still weary of this magic weilding monarch after the whole “eternal winter shtick”. It was setting itself up to be an interesting thriller dealing with mutiny and prejudice against magical beings of whether they deserved such power. But, the author then ruined it by inserting a disgusting ElsAnna ship through the whole thing. Her pathetic defence was “well it’s a fantasy story with ice powers and talking snowmen. Incest shouldn’t be a big deal”. Uh, yes it fucking is. That’s now how _suspension of disbelief_ works. We can suspend our disbelief about outlandish fantastical elements in a story like science fiction, magic, etc. But, Taboo subjects hit close to reality. There’s no justification for gross pairings like these because it’s not a matter of it being a believable aspect of the world you’re creating, it’s just morally wrong. So the TL;DR version is, talented author wrote an interesting Frozen fanfic, then ruined it and their credibility as a writer by inserting incest and excusing by essentially _turning off your brain_ like a moron.

[@paloma4444]

They are wrong about Pearl and Rose tho. Pearl specifically fell in love with Rose NOT with her Diamond.

[@paloma4444]

@@dethbreth8 Are you dense? No they arent thr same identity which is why Rose exists.

[@JustAStranger2840]

@@paloma4444 Still doesn't work when you remember that clip of Pearl looking up to Pink --- not disguised as Rose --- and blushing, clearly cementing that she already had a crush before Pink made her alter ego.

[@renownedbandanawearer1345]

Oooh that sounds like a really intriguing fic! Please share the title and/or the author!!

[@rainyrouge5123]

Good thing to bring up when people say "it just fiction though". Jaws was a completely fictional book/movie. Sharks are an endangered species because of Jaws and the author said he regretted writing it. No joke, after Jaws(movie) came out, shark hunting almost instantly became a bigger problem and it continues to push misconceptions about sharks that cause many people to turn a blind eye to the problem. And also, 3:31 HE'S ARO HE'S ARO HE'S AROACE

[@rainyrouge5123]

@@crod9905 Aww, you're making me blush

[@元気-z3q]

This is absolutely a terrible example for "fiction = reality" and I'm a pro-shipper, Jaws is portray as "all sharks are bloodthirsty." The reason why the numbers on shark killing is high because people were misinformed and scared. Also the fact that most people say "millions of sharks died because of Jaws." is completely false. Actually only. 3-4% of sharks 359,000 sharks were killed but only most of people just studied it. Jaws exaggerated how sharks were so you can't really blame people for taking action. I'm pretty sure most people are afraid of sharks, and Jaws just heighted the fear. So, no the Jaws effect isn't a really good example. However, if still believe that fiction is reality I simply cannot change your mind. It's not fiction job to tell you its fake. Its because people are stupid a enough to believe it. The fact that this video is literally saying, "You're awful if you ship _____ because you found it attractive." is not away to handle this at all.

[@元気-z3q]

@@crod9905 Explain how?

[@元気-z3q]

@@crod9905 "Jaws: ever since this movie came out, shark-killing contests are run all over the world. On average between 20 and million (Which is false.) are murdered every year." The tl;dr is basically saying that sharks were killed because of Jaws. Although, I still agree on how Jaws effect sharks. Since it was already sharks were feared. While I didn't see OP saying it was misinformed, using the Jaws effect as a excuse for 'reality = fiction' is bad. I already know the creator regretted because of his actions. Also, you've already said the exact same thing I was saying so theres no need for the; "Certain parts of animals are endangered because [blank]" or Millions of sharks argument. Before you make a ass out of you and me, which is assuming. They aren't MY statistics, Its truth. If you want to see the statistics just ask before assuming anything again. Edited; Theres a grammar mistake, pardon me.

[@元気-z3q]

@C Rod So me throwing a percentage is making up a statics? I'll give you time to rethink what you said. Not only have you once again assumed that those were MY words but you said that I didn't say sharks were endangered. Do I really need to say that sharks are endangered when I just explained that most people were afraid of them, gives you a thought about maybe sharks are endangered because people are afraid of them, huh? Another point, Yes, I said 'millions' its pretty different to compare a thousand and million don't you think? Anything else you wanna debate about?

[@kyojurorengoku730]

Reylo Fanbase: I can excuse abuse a toxic relationship, but I Draw the line at my ship being criticize. Every sane Star Wars fan: YOU CAN EXCUSE ABUSE?🤨 Pray Lilly sees this comment

[@LilianOrchard]

I did

[@kyojurorengoku730]

@@LilianOrchard YEAH 😊😊😊

[@mx9226]

The ship I don't really understand is Bakugo x Deku. I mean, I get the whole "ship the rivals together" things, but... Bakugo literally told Deku to swan dive off a building. And horrendously bullied him for about 10 years. That... just makes me really uncomfortable.

[@sandywolfr26]

I don’t like bakugo at all so hate anything to do with him. Supposed to be a hero yet he mean and is a bully. Like yea you got powers but then to go pick on the one person in the whole school with none? That just show how cowardly he truly was. Like pick on someone who equals you in strength. Then he gets angry when he sees him improving. Ugh

[@mx9226]

sandywolfr26 He gets better later in the story. Though I still expect him to apologize for everything he put Deku through, especially telling him to kill himself.

[@Ryukuro]

That's on the tame end my good sir *Shakes in Nomu x Deku *

[@RooftopRose079]

I'm with you there. It's why I can't get along with most of the fandom because they all want to ship an abuser with their victim. Like how is the biggest red flag not coming up in your mind? What Izuku needs to do is shout in Katsuki's face about it, punch him in the face, tell an authority figure so they can get the angry boy some much-needed anger management, and dramatically walk-off to pursue relationships with other people. I get that it's difficult to get out of a toxic relationship whether it's romantic or platonic (spirits know I've been there and kept making excuses for her until she simultaneously crossed two lines I couldn't morally agree with) but Izuku needs a slap upside the head because his affection for his bully is not much better than the fandom's and he's only enabling Katsuki's, his own and the fans' behavior. A majority of the fandom is also defending the redemption of Endeavor, a character who bought his wife from her family (literal human trafficking), forcibly impregnated her multiple times through multiple cases of marital rape and then spent the next 20 to 30 years neglecting and abusing her and their four children to the point she mentally snapped, disfigured their youngest child and then he locked her away in a mental institution. And no matter how many times I talk to people they always have the same excuses for this guy. "He visited her at the hospital and gave her a flower." So? "He said he was sorry to his family." That doesn't erase the damage he's already done. "He's trying to be a better person." Has he confessed those crimes to someone who can hold him responsible or turned himself in for them? "No, he doesn't have to and if you don't like it then leave!" Same conversation-every time. I really need to stop with these people, there's no common sense within them.

[@mx9226]

@@RooftopRose079 You said basically what I felt about those two situations.

[@grecia3146]

Lesson: If you ship a problematic ship (why would you do that) at least don't cry when people call you out for that same reason.

[@elpoyo8062]

Grecia people online are assholes who think they're always correct, unfortunately it's as simple as that.

[@grecia3146]

@@elpoyo8062 I agree with you, is not really complicate. When someone calls them out for that they use the ''Don't attack others for ships'' ''You just wanna star drama'' ''I can ship whatever I want''

[@elpoyo8062]

Grecia I don't always agree with Lily, but I'm glad she's calling out these internet degenerates' bullshit.

[@thegoodwin]

@@elpoyo8062 , people online can also be narcissists where every time you present a good counterargument to their "defense" about their problematic ships, they end twisting your words around and go against you and even spam you with multiple replies just to silence you.

[@pocketxyco2317]

The moment you said Tony & Peter shipped I choked on my lunch a bit not expecting that

[@pixelpulse0755]

You know what trope I really HATE. I hate the trope of a married woman who had dreams, goals, and ambitions but married someone who had none of those qualities. Then after they got married she was the only one in the relationship to abandon her vision and take care of others. While he got the better end of the deal because he keeps doing all these stupid things that only benefited him and not for his loved ones. Then when the wife calls out against it she's framed as boring or unsupportive. I really hate how media portrays and normalizes heterosexual relationships as women marring someone lower than her standards and men marring someone higher than his standards. Moreover, what you said in the video about how art can shape people's reality I think that's very true. Especially, towards the younger audience who don't have much experience in the real world so they look towards art for guidance. And I hate how this trope teaches teens and young women to give up on their goals and lower themselves for the first "not like any other, nice" guy who has a bunch of red flags but sticks with him because just how "nice" he is. I think that all relationships should have standards and boundaries to protect people from unwanted situations. And that healthy relationships should have people with similar standards and visions/goals for the future so they can work together as a team.

[@pixelpulse0755]

@@crystalfairy912 Same here

[@oneofnone7947]

I have a coworker who not only loved rise of Skywalker but defended raylo they are also deeply christen and will openly call anything sexual in nature disgusting and wrong and yes they she same sex couples as evil

[@JustAStranger2840]

I am so sorry you have to see that shit every day-

[@VictorTorres-rg9lp]

Fuck that sucks man hope that she get put in her place or gets fired

[@niyaodom1944]

One Of none If that isn’t some of the most backwards, nonsensical, and ironic stuff I’ve ever seen in a while...

[@JasmineGeminiDragon]

Then they are going to love Disney Plus... because they just kicked out Love Simon for not being (as they call it) "FAMILY FRIENDLY" .... 🙃

[@oneofnone7947]

Oh it gets worse they flat out refuse to think of lgbtq+ as anything other then evil it’s very sad there only argument is they have scripcher that’s like saying raylo makes sense because of fan fiction

[@graceohanrahan2865]

Thank you for calling out the Harry Potter fandom. I know it wasn't the point of the video but I just cannot interact with it due to the sheer omnipresence of abusive and pedophilic ships (bonus points for both) and whenever I try to air my grievances, I just get shut down.

[@MoondustManwise]

Honestly when I was younger I shipped a few of those ships in the the big shitty ship list and now I look at them and go *gagging noises*

[@bacchiguu86]

Lily saying the stuff that desperately needed to be said again. I love it. "If art didn't affect real life why is there religion" good point lol

[@darthslain]

it truly is everywhere....catradora is still a thing. *sigh* the ship was cute and possibly salvageable at first (at least i think so.) but now.....not a chance. wish they hadn't teased that though

[@jackwashington6177]

The ship used to be cute at first but Catra has become such a toxic character. She manipulates Adora and she treats Scorpia like garbage.She even was close to destroying the universe! I used to ship Catra and Adora but after Season 3, there was no way I could ever justify them ever becoming a cute couple. And yet people still ship them to this day. *sigh*

[@aitipsea3909]

I think there is a reason for this: usually romances need some conflict in order to keep the story interesting. The more both lovers, or only one, suffers then the more rewarding will it be when they get a happy ending, or the more feels you'll get if they don't. The mechanic is overall nice, the problem? *People Got Greedy*

[@altersol7255]

The reason it failed, inflated drama of romantic turned rivalry. To ask a very serious question, if we can make make boys pass as girls in animation and cat girls look appealing and adorable, why have we not gotten more dynamic with that? Oh the radicals are crying about how homosexuality is evil and should be killed? Funny, since god drowned 90% of the planet to kill those that he deemed beyond rescue. Seriously, we now have a few same-sex ships that are cute and wholesome, so let's get more of that cute and wholesome or wholesome and funny. And I swear to Ra if I see one more article about 'revolutionary slow-burn of our dreams' I am not just going to loose my mind, I will ask those people if they were dropped as children or raised by Catholic Sociopaths. Whoops, tautology.

[@akiraohalloran]

I don't know, if Catra gets redeemed and makes up for what she has done than I think catradora could still be a possibility. However I haven't seen the newer episodes so I could be wrong.

[@axiodile4623]

It was so prevalent before I watched the show that I thought "Catra" was short for "Catradora." Oh how wrong I was...

[@elmcdonough7067]

This video helped me realize why I was so obsessed with ships like drarry and reylo. I was trying to work through my issues with my abusive exs and trying to tell myself that these relationships weren’t actually completely bad and toxic because they had been a huge part of my formative years and formed how I looked at relationships for a long time. Thank you for this video.

[@900flyingmuffins6]

I’m surprised you haven’t talked about the Steven Universe Movie. Especially since the fandom ships Steven and Spinel so hard that they take any criticism as a personal attack. They always use the excuse that “gems don’t technically have an age” to excuse the ship (since Steven is around 17 and Spinel is OVER 6000 YEARS OLD). And even if Steven was 18, they’re only real interaction with each other was with either Spinel trying to kill him, or when she got rejuvenated and was practically a young child. People also berated Steven and called him a jerk and all that because he wasn’t paying attention to Spinel because he was stressed out about LITERALLY DYING and all of his maternal figures having their memories completely wiped. And that was after having to save the planet and spend a whole two years with galactic tyrants/dictators trying to manipulate them into not killing people. I think there’s a lot of untapped shit you can cover in the movie. Also the finale of the show is coming up soon, and I’m not sure if you are going to tackle the last season/spin off show Steven Universe Future. Anyways, great video. I don’t normally comment but your video on toxic ships reminded me a LOT of the Steven Universe fandom and how they REALLY ship Stevinel and will quite literally attack and make fun of people who are against it and call them out on their support of pedophillia.

[@felipe_drawmania1604]

Does the Pedophilia aspect aply to Steven or Spinel?

[@paloma4444]

They are wrong about Pearl and Rose tho. Pearl specifically fell in love with Rose NOT with her Diamond.

[@Minkerdoodle01]

@Raul i get why you’re saying this, because Pearl started to fantasize about being with Rose and pretending she was never pink diamonds pearl, but she felt guilt about that and Rose still has incredible power over her, even if she’s technically not her “master” anymore. It’s still a relationship that would be incredibly toxic, as Pearl still had the perception of Rose being high as a diamond. Hell, Rose tells pearl to “never stop” and “never speak of this” and pearl is FORCED, PHYSICALLY, to obey. That’s fucked up.

[@cameronmoore2972]

The asking uncomfortable questions thing is like working out. No one wants to do it but you will feel so much better after doing it.

[@eggnblood]

YES CAN WE STOP SHIPPING ALASTOR PEOPLE HAVE ASKED FOR WLW CANON SHIPS AND THEN JUST??? THROW IT AWAY?? Like okay boomers

[@LillFluffPotato]

one cannot like/upvote this comment enough! like not only is it a canon wlw relationship, it's also super cute and wholesome and good and makes me really happy!!?? just the way they interact without really needing to say anything?? the body language of these two is mmh!! SO GOOD!!! why do people throw that away!????

[@eggnblood]

I mean I get it? I like Alastor too. But what are they? 12? Like come on... get over yourself. Besides, Alastor's Asexeual, another faucet of the LGBT+ community that rarely gets rapresented. And people are shipping him with ANGEL DUST, ALSO. And my asexual ass cries.

[@Jxrts]

If art doesn’t inspire the real world, why am I now a cringy greaser after reading the outsiders

[@ll-6596]

And now the repressed memories of Big Hero 6 have just resurfaced.....

[@sadtitties222]

@Leeze - Oh Dear God, NO! I thought I buried my horrid memories of that "ship" a long time ago. Ughhhhhhhhh. 😥

[@NoSoiBoobs90]

I shipped Hiro and GoGo, but only after he became of age.

[@hannyboop]

@Turnip Singularity One of the biggest ships, at least f on what I've seen is Tadashi and Hiro. Lots of incest fics. Also people tend to ship Gogo and Hiro, which is borderline paedophilia

[@FarronMoon]

Speaking as a writer my first instinct is to simply re-write whatever story I'm looking at. I don't ship raylo because Kylo is a sucky character so I don't care if the narrative is changed however I like. Either make some supernatural force scream into Kylos subconscious to never harm Rey, or change the circumstances of their first meeting, or anything really. If you have a ship, build it properly.

[@Spectra651]

My thoughts exactly. There are some ships that are problematic or toxic that only appear that way on the surface, but if you dig a little deeper you'll find that the artist or author has re-written the story and the characters in a way that fixes those problems... that's why head-canons and AUs exist. I don't believe that fiction begins and ends with what's canonically accepted--that would be like putting a limit on people's imaginations--so if you feel you can write a character better or rearrange the entire story in order to create a ship that works, then go for it. There's actually an officially Disney-sanctioned author named Liz Braswell who takes classic Disney movies like The Little Mermaid and uses them as jumping off points for some interesting "What if?" scenarios in this way. She's never written any non-canonical ships as far as I know (Ariel still ends up with Eric, for example), but she does change a lot of the circumstances leading up to how these Disney couples wind up together, how they interact, how the alternate events change them as people, ect. It completely changes the way you view these films and these characters, so if she can do that, then I don't see why others can't do the same with their own head-canons.

[@fizzydizzystudios4768]

Thank you for mentioning the Alastor thing! Full disclosure, before the pilot came out I used to ship Chalastor, but that was before I found out that Charlie and Vaggie were girlfriends and I fell in love with them, as well as actually meeting Alastor as a character. After Alastor was introduced I thought, “oh God I bet people are gonna ship him with Charlie now”. They have no chemistry tho, Alastor just dragged Charlie into dancing with him. Every time I see Chalastor fan art I dread that Vivzie with write Charlie falling for Alastor and dump Vaggie. Even though *cough cough* Alastor is Asexual and presumably Aromantic as well...

[@friedbluebird]

He is cannonly aromatic, but sexuality hasn’t stopped people from shipping before

[@saragoodman1020]

Thankfully I don't think viv will do that what with all the Charlie x vaggie merch she puts out and the sneak peek of them singing a duet together, while Charlie and Alastor haven't even appeared together in any preview clips. The canon lesbians are safe for this one!

[@Gekyouryuu]

there's an artist I follow that's been making a bunch of Charlie x Alastor pics lately. I finally asked WHY anyone would ship them together when she has a canon girlfriend, and someone ELSE replied to me with "well, sure, people ignore that he's manipulative. that's what shipping IS. as for her actual girlfriend, she's too serious, and unless she changes her ways, I don't approve of her being with the angel that is Charlie." and I almost had an aneurysm.

[@BracketsAttackets]

...Bruh. Yes, Inquisitor, this one!

[@chibicelesti4859]

Vaggie has a serious attitude and more grounded when compared to Charlie because she's looking out for her girlfriend and making sure she's safe. How the hell did that artist overlook WHY Vaggie's serious!? Their response towards your question nearly gave me an aneurysm too

[@LeaderoftheFates]

I like the Alastair and Charlie ship cause they both like music and dancing and Alastair being asexual that's his only drive in the relationship.

[@varianmetcalf8220]

Bruh vaggie has her moments where she's soft with charlie she just gets serious in the pilot because there was so much shit for her to be serious about angel ruined the hotels reputation and when alastor appears with said altera motives and after he keeps her from talking to charlie after she lets him stay did you not see them in the scene before charlie goes on the news show that was the good shit right there

[@varianmetcalf8220]

I also almost had an aneurism

[@poisonivystar4]

I was slightly disappointed that Bill/Dip, from Gravity Falls, didn't make your list. That is an absolutely HORRIFYING ship.

[@f.m.3911]

Ohh! Oooh! I have an example! MCU's Stony. Toxic As Hell. Steve and Tony literally fight to the near death in Civil War, and Steve leaves Tony in a broken suit in the middle of Siberia after smashing his arc reactor (which just a few movies earlier was akin to a pacemaker, if it's broken it KILLS HIM) And the movie ends with a non-pology from Steve for his actions. How Romantic. Many fanfics of them is written as Steve 'fixing' Tony in some capacity as well, not just aiding him in overcoming his flaws but straight up changing every part about him, which is just Nope

[@verdurite]

why can't this video be more popular. I'm so salty that their are people who really need this video but will never see it. And oh GOD the thor/loki thing. I hate that ship, a former gaslighty friend of mine tried to justify it to me once. Let's be glad i dodged out of that friendship...

[@jonmercano1138]

Tony and Peter made my lip twitch. I held back a gag for Snape.

[@ciriknockoff5738]

I feel like a lot of people like their ships only for the POTENTIAL those might have or sometimes even because of their own headcanons. They like pretending they HEADCANON the abuser to suddenly NOT be abusive anymore and therefore it's ok! But if you have to change the characters so much in your head just to feel comfortable shipping them, why not make your own characters that don't come with the extra baggage? But you see, OCs don't give you clout on the internet like writing about Reylo does I guess. Great videos as always Lily. I think its time to finally become a Patron once I get a job!

[@Kirbydudette333]

When you brought up Gravity Falls I'm honestly surprised you didn't bring up the actual worst pair: Bill X Dipper or Bipper for short it is truly horrifying.

[@gamefreak000151]

I was looking away when you said "Tony and Peter" and my first thought was, how is Iornman and Star Lord is so bad. Forgot all about spiderman...

[@FatherIimaginedyoutaller]

Whenever someone tells me that fiction doesn't affect reality I remember the girls in my class who thought that Ezra and Arya (a teacher and student relantionship) is so romantic and how they all ended up dating men with massive age gaps

[@jonmercano1138]

The image of Alie and Rey kissing warms my heart. It's the good food.

[@DeerBoy736]

Who is Alie?

[@jonmercano1138]

@Deer Boy The lesbian sith shown throughout this video and in the thumbnail

[@DeerBoy736]

Jon Mercano I figured that out. I’m more interested in what media can i find her.

[@arcadema]

One of the most frustratingly common "rebuttals" I've heard for why art "totally doesn't influence the real world you guys" is "Oh So YoU ThInK ViDeO GaMeS MaKe PeOpLe viOleNt?!?!". An argument so stupid I've stopped trying to even debunk it whenever I hear it because the people saying it are obviously not worth the effort.

[@anthonyewolf]

It's a straw man designed to distract from the context for sure.

[@Saiyusa]

Eh not really. The argument made in this video is very plainly that problematic fiction is bad because it promotes toxic behavior in real relationships, never mind that some people are just fucked up no matter what media they consume. There's not a difference in the slightest between this argument and one that says video games inspire violence in gamers. You just happen to agree with one and not the other.

[@heliianth]

"It [fiction] affects opinions and motivation. I believe half of it has to also do with cultural environments. Someone who plays COD isn't going to murder someone because the entire rest of the world says murder is illegal and a horrible, evil thing done by horrible, evil people. Someone who ships Reylo is going to be far more likely to take that kind of 'enemies to lovers' or 'caretakers and patient' relationship mindset into real life because the subject matter is more complicated and relatively uncommented on." Sorry to reply to two of your comments Saiyusa, just got a lot to say I guess.

[@Saiyusa]

@@heliianth No apology necessary! I am commenting really only because Lily's comment sections for these vids have been pretty one-sided and it gives me feelings to see people commenting "Oh no, I shipped a problematic ship and now I've seen the light. I'll stop being a bad person now" and unironic replies that basically read "There there. All is well so long as you repent." and here I am sitting here like we're still talking about fanfiction, right? Since the last vid, I am still of the belief that how we are raised by actual people determines how we interact with relationships (discounting mental illness). People don't stay in toxic relationships because Hollywood makes it look sexy. They do it because people are flawed. Like really flawed. If we had media that only portrayed healthy relationships, this would not change. Being people is messy and difficult to do right even if someone did give you a manual that you're meant to follow. Religion has been trying that for years with varying success. I know one thing for certain, shipping is not the downfall of our society and people trying to convince a shipper that it is and that there is just no room in our polite society for people who want to indulge in their kind of fantasies probably have some more living to do.

[@romeospells2487]

@@Saiyusa You aren't wrong, but keep in mind that the reason this video's discourse should be relatively one-sided is because it's acting as a foil to an already one-sided conversation. The idea that the media you consume having a direct relationship to your inner tendencies is something that is often and always decried by those who like to consume (Even beyond media. If it's meat you consume, you might decry the environmental concerns of the legitimate Vegans. If it's guns you consume, you probably *Are* the NRA, etc. etc.). I don't think even Lily believes that every person out there who accepts or identifies with a ship is out there doing the thing. However, someone who sees Reylo and thinks "That's sexy," may react less than appropriately if they see someone else going through the same thing. Perhaps they're neglecting friends in obvious need of assistance.

[@sagastar4108]

And this is why i am happy being single till the end of days.

[@aitipsea3909]

At least you are strong enough to live that way unharmed I envy ya

[@NorthernNights-o3k]

This is how I feel about Shera and Catra. Like why are people okay with this? Didn't one try to kill the other on multiple occasions?

[@faithdanielle8933]

How....can people ship Tony and Peter....I don’t understand? Their relationship was purely that of mentor and apprentice possibly even father and son. That’s so gross...

[@thegoodwin]

What's even more gross is that on that one Rylo panel at Star Wars Celebration in 2018 or 2019 (don't remember the year), there were attendees at this panel who cheered about the mention of Luke x Leia ship. Like, excuse me...Luke and Leia are canon siblings. Why be so FANATICAL about Luke and Leia as a romantic couple when they're canonically not?

[@geekchic8798]

I couldn't ship any characters that involve incest, abuse or huge age gaps, it doesn't matter what gender. I couldn't ship Reylo due the ship is abusive and the theory of those two being cousins.

[@aitipsea3909]

I had ships to keep me down To make me fret, or make me frown I had ships but now I'm free There are no ships on me

[@BronxDragon]

I could have gone my whole life without knowing or remembering some of those ships.

[@Jedipikachu9009]

Wow, and I thought the only problem of the Reylo ship was that there was absolutely no romantic implication.

[@justsomedudete3320]

The only fandom that I have ever seen with no toxic ships (that I am awere of) is the Good Omens Fandom.... Cause we all just ship Crowley and Azirpahele and that's done

[@lovinavargas-carriedo2698]

"I ont even get into friendship is magic" please, Lily, you say that like we haven't been here for the rest of your videos... But thanks for addressing this. I love your criticism videos. Glass of water is 100% why I watch your videos, I love listening to you get into topics on this level

[@saras1896]

I agree! Don't get me wrong, basically all of Lily's content is well-made but I find Glass of Water to be the most interesting BY FAR. It honestly surprised me when she said in a previous video that In A Minute was more popular and gained more subs while Glass of Water lost her subs. Crazy stuff.

[@Alias_Anybody]

Wait, a compilation of bad ships? You are a brave one but I'd still recommend buying a lot of holy water and a flamethrower.

[@kelleybowe4132]

Shipping is just awkward. Especially with pairing that don't make sense and are constantly use. Yet I've seen some ships that are pretty healthy and better than some of the canon relationship.

[@mollyshine20brown65]

I remember these words that Peter once said to Meg once when she was dating a convict "You gotta be careful who you get involved with romantically" Even thou I don't like Family Guy anymore, those words stuck with me because he right, you don't know what kind of person (or people if your are polyamorous) your bringing into your life, one minute their a "dream come true, then later on they turn out to be your worst nightmare from hell. That why I always love good and healthy relationships of any form.

[@fairy5484]

3:31 "Shipped mostly with charlie" Cough cough angel dust cough cough

[@bankheadbounced8764]

Wait a second- PEOPLE SHIP ANGEL DUST AND CHARLIE???

[@agromantis7214]

Fortunately, no, those two don’t get shipped together. Angel gets shipped with Alastor tho which honestly just no.

[@SleepGoblin69]

yeah but shipping them with either is just bad in general when you remember he's ACE .... so most ships with alastor are problematic

[@felipe_drawmania1604]

@@SleepGoblin69 Apparently ACE doesn't mean aromantic,so It could technically still work.

[@vxxiii4160]

Just make them remember these wise words: "You're ship is trash." - Confucius

[@ejedwards988]

But who doesn't want to read a wholesome ass fic about Elsa learning how to deal with having a sibling? Or Tony Stark having to rearrange his schedule to make time to be there for his son Peter's UIL events? Or James and Lily Potter doing that sleep deprived parent argument thing when baby Harry wakes up screaming in the middle of the night? Or an AU where Urza ran away with Zuko and Azula, and while Azula's still not right she's not nearly the sadist she is in the show? Or the new kid in school let's be friends fluff fics? Who doesn't love those?

[@hyperpowerfulform5132]

If fiction doesn't effect reality, then *why do people become emotionally invested in a story?*

[@thegoodwin]

Also, to add that if fiction doesn't affect reality, then why do shippers send hate comments on Twitter to film production staff about not taking the direction of the story their way?

[@renownedbandanawearer1345]

No credible person I know who defends shipping or fiction in general actually argues that. It's a strawman. The actual argument is: Fiction is NOT reality. You are not committing murder by writing a murder mystery. In fact, zero people were harmed by your act of writing that story. Fiction does affect reality, but it's not 1:1, adults and most children are able to differentiate between the two, and the ways in which fiction affects reality are complicated and never seem to be properly understood by people who claim that.

[@thegoodwin]

@@renownedbandanawearer1345 , a better argument is that fiction affects the perception of reality that leads to a specific behavior in the said reality. Now, how it affects adults and children is complex and at times it has to be examined on a case by case basis.

[@renownedbandanawearer1345]

@@thegoodwin Well, like I said, no one worth their salt actually argues that fiction doesn't affect reality. Instead, they read scientific studies and resources on psychology. The consensus is that it's completely safe for mentally healthy adults to create and engage with "problematic" fiction (even content that you - general you - might find squicky). It can even be beneficial for a lot of people, like those who write to cope with past trauma.

[@thegoodwin]

@@renownedbandanawearer1345 , also, like I said before, it's still a complex situation because a piece of fiction affects adults and children differently. In some cases, there are those that can view such type of problematic media and be just as fine and behave normally. However, there are cases where some individuals who view such type of troubling media and it can trigger them to perform inappropriate behavior. However, overall, that's all depends on the individual's own circumstances and state of being. For instance, there are cases that someone would view something that triggers them to be very angry and smash things whereas someone else who views the same content and just laugh at it like it doesn't even affect them. Also, I agree that writing out one's previous trauma in the form of a personal diary or even a metaphorical fiction piece can be beneficial as a way to release negative emotions or anxieties out of their minds and keep them at ease.

[@pikaace]

Lily: *lists out most of the cursed ships* Me: Yep, heard of those; but hey, can't get much worse, right? Lily: Also TonyxPeter is a thing Me: *SPEWS DRINK*

[@sabrinaking1873]

When I do my own ships, I take a look at what I see in the show, figure out if the characters have actual chemistry and that their relationship is healthy. I consider a healthy ship to be in which both partners are equals who support each other and bring out the best in each other, and are able to expand the other's horizons. On an unrelated note, I have a reccomendation for Lily. It's a short youtube animation called The Acorn Princess, it's a cute, wholesome vid with a gay princess and a gay prince who are bffs and try to be with their partners. (*^.^*)

[@chibicelesti4859]

That's with me and the ships I like. Being partners not matter the situation (action adventure-ish or slice of life) is something I find wholesome in my ships. Anything connected to Pedophilia and incest is a big no-no from me! Also, I really should see the Acorn Princess thing!

[@vampwolfchick]

You know, you really called me out in this video (I ship a lot). And I'm currently re-evaluating all of my ships. Well, not all, but some of them.

[@Pantalaymo]

I find it funny how everyone and everything in Harry Potter is shipped to the most horrible degree, even including Dobby afaik... And then there's Ron, sitting forever alone in the closet.

[@Ray_Bert]

I’m eating a taco as I watched this video and a almost threw up when you said Tony and Peter.

[@HopelessRomantic999]

Something that occurred to me about these ships (and other unhealthy ships that you didn't mention and would take too long to list, some of them I'm sad to say I shipped at some point in my life because I wasn't thinking about the implications) is that more often than not, fanfics involving them don't even have the characters acting as they did in the work they came from and often change the circumstances of the plot. The only fanfics that have theses ships with the characters being in character and being a part of the main plot are dark deconstruction fics that go into specifically why the relationship would fail and often have downer or bittersweet endings. It's as if shippers realize that if they were to write the characters as intended and still have them in a relationship, it'd be problematic at best and downright squicky at worst, but they don't want to acknowledge that fact. The characters are no longer characters to them; they're just paper dolls to project whatever traits they want onto to make the "relationship" work for them so they can have guilt-free masturbation fuel (or fluff to gush over in my case, but the point still stands).

[@renownedbandanawearer1345]

I'm... struggling to see what's wrong with that though??? Is there really anything wrong with enjoying OOC shipfic of characters who hate each other in canon just because you want to squee?

[@tenchimuyofreak90]

There's way too many inappropriate ships out there seriously, but i think we can agree chaggie is best ship in hazbin

[@ebonyblack4563]

How can someone look at that sweet wholesome pair shining in the middle of hell and just discard it? Charlie and Vaggie are an actually healthy loving long term couple, we just don't get that in most shows at all! I'm open to seeing them as an open relationship, but imo you can't break them up, not permanently, and be true to the characters. Kind of like it takes a small miracle for me to believe Alastor would see dating as more than an entertaining distraction to play with when he's bored.

[@tenchimuyofreak90]

@@ebonyblack4563 hes also canonly asexual so do with that as you will, i love the interactions with charlie and vaggie

[@ebonyblack4563]

@@tenchimuyofreak90 he's both Ace and Aro, I'm very aware of that, which is part of why I think he might play the game but not really see it as more than that. That said, my actual irl partner of over 15 years is grey spectrum sexually and romantically as well, closer to flat Aro even. So, I know it can work, it's just different. I'm a bit in the grey myself so I understand him and his perspective easier than most people, it's a lot of what drew us together. There can be bonds that go beyond traditional romance and the hyper active sex drive we often see in media. I'm up for exploring that, particularly with a character who is so amusing and has aspects so rarely seen. Edit Add-on: Vaggie and Charlie are so obviously into each other and openly supportive that I'm disappointed so many people don't acknowledge them just cause they didn't kiss...

[@tenchimuyofreak90]

@@ebonyblack4563 agreed and thats awesome may you have many more years together

[@ebonyblack4563]

@@tenchimuyofreak90 thank you, and may you find something so fulfilling as well!

[@Minkerdoodle01]

Sometimes the people shipping the really toxic shit are 10 and 11 year olds who don’t know any better. I think it’s a teachable moment to sway those young people in a better direction.

[@Alterego912]

My mother has been trying to get me to drink booze for years. I can't even tolerate the taste of champagne.

[@1231heyo]

This video helped me understand why Tumblr gave me shit for calling out 19 Days for being incredibly problematic. Thanks Lily!

[@WhimsicalBunn]

finally a sane person mentions charlastor as a toxic ship. the shit they pulled today has me making a fucking video

[@duatia5315]

Also lemme say this: ALASTOR IS ACTUALLY CANONICALLY ASEXUAL. Why is that hot? I don't know you tell me.

[@chibicelesti4859]

I'm confused why they want him, an Aromantic Asexual psychopath, to be in a relationship with Charlie, a person who has a loving and supportive girlfriend? That one bothers the ever living hell out of me

[@duatia5315]

so if I had to guess, they themselves are toxic, and such wish to see an echo of themselves in a show get a date.

[@BroitmeOli]

You wanna hate yourself even more about Gravity Falls ships?!??! Dipper x Bill Cipher It's an actual thing

[@SassyandalwaysClassy]

Sailor Moon & Prince Diamond is one I see a lot. He’s quite literally a creepy time traveler obsessed with Sailor Moon’s future self. He goes as far as yo kidnap the teenage sailor moon and try to force a kiss on her. In the 90’s anime somebody had the sense to send tuxedo mask in to stop that. In Crystal he gets away with it. Given that we have no scope of age it’s easy to assume that Prince Diamond is a grown man.

[@Randomixx-xm1ml]

I'm a fan of RWBY, have been since Volume 5, and I understand the points you made about the fandom's issues. I try not to let it hamper my own ability to enjoy the show, but I recognize that it is a problem and that it has been for a while. Also, I knew there were sickos out there that wanted Blake to stay with Adam, or for Jaune to fall in love with Cinder, but are there really that many people that want to pair Velvet with Cardin? Jeez, we all know Coco is the only one for Velvet. It's also why I prefer wholesome pairings like Blake and Yang, Ren and Nora, Ruby and Weiss or Penny, etc.

[@sparktwochristopher7240]

True, though the RWBY shipping fandom of Blake and Yang I saw and heard of so far are...something alright..

[@thaddeusb8715]

You, sir, are a shining example of what a shipper should be. I tip my hat to you. Also, I support literally the exact same ships. SparkTwo Chris - speaking as a Blake-Yang shipper, we're not all like the fanatics you hear stories about. Some of us are decent human beings.

[@jk-it2vt]

YES found the RWBY fans finally!!

[@jk-it2vt]

@@thaddeusb8715 Blake and Yang shippers are usually awesome people, and then theres some reeaal bad ones who just--- ack.

[@thaddeusb8715]

@@jk-it2vt Problem is, anti-RWBY establishments will focus on those really bad ones and give you the impression that all Bumbleby shippers - and to an extent all RWBY shippers - are like that. I've heard dozens of horror stories about TOXIC BEE SHIPPERS and I'm yet to actually meet one. The problem is there, but it is vastly overstated by some people.

[@sugaschild7917]

From someone who recently stop smoking weed regularly I can affirm it’s very addictive if you don’t watch yourself. Like the only reason I don’t smoke that much anymore is because A. I don’t want to get back into the habit of doing it all the time and B. It was cause my anxiety to get much worse. While being high helps in the moment it doesn’t make your promise go away it more of a thing that is able to push your problems away while in turn causing more problems for you in the long run

[@samanthakelly718]

Saying it like it is. Props woman, props.

[@alabastercrowe5574]

In the Powerpuff Girls, one of the most popular ships is between Ace (a seventeen year old) and Buttercup (a five year old). A lot of the people who support this ship use the Powerpuff Girls episode "Buttercrush" and the Gangreen Gang quest line from Fusion Fall as evidence to support this ship. In the episode "Buttercrush", it is made extremely clear to the viewer that Ace is taking advantage of Buttercup's crush on him. In the same episode, he also tried to kill Buttercup's sisters. But as soon as Buttercup figured out that Ace tried to kill her sisters, she immediately beat him up. In Fusion Fall, Buttercup gets amnesia after a fight with Mojo Jojo. She was eventually found by Ace and his gang. Ace lied to Buttercup about who she was so that he could use her as a henchwoman. In the game, they actually referred to Buttercup's new identity as Ace's girlfriend. I honestly used to support this ship when I was younger. But as I got older, I realized that this ship is really messed up. It perfectly embodied Lily's definition of a creepy, toxic ship.

[@NicoFireBlood]

I'm not a good person, I enjoy watching and listening to someone suffering, I also enjoy when I suffer.

[@deionsmith2341]

Lilly, I've seen nearly every video of yours, and damn do you do fine work. Your criticisms of backwards thinking, lighthearted looks into film and television, and nonstop firey wit have made your channel a favorite of mine. Keep up the good work and know you brighten our days with what ya do.

[@geekcatsunited4527]

I'd love to see a video about people shipping abusive/toxic pairings "as a coping mechanism".

[@calmingwaves3134]

"Are we the baddies?"

[@thegoldengamer8419]

If fiction didnt affect reality we wouldnt have fandoms

[@ashandember9019]

This video feels loykey like a callout because I adore fics with imbalanced power dynamics. But I honestly loathe ships with unhealthy chemistry. Simply put you may be God emperor of the world but if you use that power to hurt or demean your partner then I am not interested

[@sadtitties222]

@Aasmaa Alibhai Honestly, I'm in the same boat as you. I still to this day have ships that have, eh, "questionable" dynamics that one cannot simply ignore for too long (because it's constantly being shoved into your face about messy this couple is), but I absolutely REFUSE to cross the line with incest, paedophilia, and outright physical/mental abuse. I have been opposed to these types of pairing dynamics since I was a kid and I still am even as an adult. It just ain't gonna happen chief.

[@ashandember9019]

@@sadtitties222 I know exactly what you mean. I can begin to tell the number of ships that I only ship because of fan's work. Like I objectively hate Dipper and Wendy as a cannon thing but if written correctly (age up dipper, change the setting, and remove certain characteristics) and I begin to wonder if it is still part of that fandom

[@a.c.1515]

the sad part of that description is that like. a large percent of the invader zim legitimately actually ships a child and an adult. a child and an adult who HATE EACH OTHER, no less. like, they see this relationship as not only okay, but “romantic”. this is WAY more people who think this stuff is okay than how it should be. pro tip: the number that it should be is zero.

[@AngryKarin666]

As someone who shipped it when I was like, 10-12, i'm cringing at past me. I (and hopefully many others in that camp) were dumb kids who did not yet know better. But yeah, adult me feels gross and confused about the ship now.

[@akiraohalloran]

Zim is 16 in Earth years and the reason people ship zadr is because of a unfinished episode called the mopines of doom. It depicted the two caring for one another's company. Not to mention if the ship was actually pedophilla than the creators and voice actors wouldn't so light heartedly joke around about it.

[@Spectra651]

@@akiraohalloran I'd like to add that another reason a lot of people ship ZADR without believing it's pedophilia is because Zim looks like a child, acts like a child, goes to school like a child... so is it any great mystery that people THINK he's a bloody child? There aren't a ton of instances on the show where it's implied he's any older than he looks and acts (unless you count him having a job as an invader, but 1. Alien, so different society, and 2. Even older kids can have jobs), so by the time they figure it out they've already decided that Zim is Dib's age and are shipping the two of them. Now it's true that Zim is actually over 160 Earth years old (don't know where people keep getting that 16 years old thing from) and canonically an adult, but it's hardly ever brought up in the context of the series--you'd have to look it up on the wiki or read the creator's tweets (which, TBH, aren't very reliable and often contradictory)--so I don't blame people for not realizing this. That's why it bothers me so much when I see ZADR shippers automatically get accused of being into pedophilia when it's so easy to make the mistake of thinking Zim is Dib's age, and I've never, not once, seen an instance of a ZADR shipper knowingly shipping an adult Zim with a child Dib... either they make both of them kids, or both adults. I can't speak to those who view their hate/hate relationship as "romantic," exactly, but I will say that a lot of times they'll change up aspects of their characters, or set the story in another timeline, or have them older and less antagonistic towards each other... that's why head-canon's and AUs exist. TL;DR: I'm not justifying pedophilic/toxic relationships, here, only trying to explain why not EVERY ZimxDib shipper is necessarily perpetuating one. And nope, not into ZADR myself, so I have no reason to try and rationalize away my guilt; I've just been in the fandom a long time and am calling it like I see it.

[@inkbanditt501]

3:43 If you ship Roxas with Axel I will blend you into a fine paste and drink you like a smoothie

[@KirbyFanDude]

Thank you for this. I don't like calling people delusional, ever...but when people really ignore reality like this, it's the actual definition of it. It's sad. Actual good use of the meme "Stop it. Get some help." Also thanks for using wordplay in your titles, I always like those.

[@jameisname6177]

OH MY GOD SNAPE AND- EW EW EW EWW EWW E WWEWWWWW I am disgusted at all of these ships. As a fan of the PLATONIC Spiderkid/Irondad dynamic I am s i c k to my stomach. This is disgusting and I wanna unlearn English.

[@MartaTarasiuk]

I think that shipping Alastor with anybody is not only creepy because of the power dynamic but also because he was officially confirmed to be aro & ace. To me force-shipping ace/aro characters is equally as disturbing as aggressively pushing heterosexual relationships on canonically homosexual characters.

[@nanoff815]

Who is Alastor?

[@Anthony-db3xk]

NANO HUNTER Ff a character from hazbin hotel, an animated adult show about the princess of hell and her girlfriend try to rehabilitate sinners. And people ship Alastor with the princess of hell who already has a girlfriend.

[@kevincsellak296]

13:50 that’s not just abuse. That’s literal preying. Abuse needs a relationship to abuse from. He’s got nothing, and is just raping her mentally. Backalley rape, not relationship rape.

[@critica77y77]

Some more highly No ships: Kim Possible and/or Ron Stoppable with literally any of their villains: Even aside from the fact that we're talking about people who want to take over the world and have tried to kill Kim and Ron, there's still the "adult with a child" thing Danny Fenton and Vlad Masters: See above Dan Mandel and The Impostor: Very abusive Foo Fighters/Anyone: Foo Fighters is underage, dead, and an animal Bill Cipher/Anyone: Bill Cipher is a complete monster incapable of love, and would be abusive for sure Light Yagami/Anyone: See above Edward Elric/Roy Mustang: Adult with a child Giorno Giovanna/Jolyne Cujoh: Incest Jessica Jones/Kilgrave: Would not be consensual The Doctor/The Master: I feel like I shouldn't have to explain why Comment if you can think of more.

[@kylepope7850]

@Critica 77y Jessica Jones/Kilgrave.

[@smilegirl6429]

In the Gameknight999 series: the titular 12 year old protagonist with an evil sadistic 100 year old virus who is literally stated to only know anger and determination who ends up dead by the end of the series.

[@Itsant33]

Thank you for recognizing the abuse that also goes on in Beauty and the Beast. Belle apparantly has no cap on her ethical treatment that would cause her to break( that is to say break and keep it that way) a promise.

[@bigchief3377]

Not to mention the fact that Dipper and Mabel are actual children

[@miketrot5954]

Another great thought provoking post. Keep up the fabulous work!

[@Trixster009]

There's more works of Peter Parker x Tony Stark, on Archive of Our Own, than there is of Tony Stark x James Rhodes, a much healthier gay ship. That is seriously fucked up. How does someone ship Tony and Peter together? They're basically father and son! Sure, not by blood, but Found Family is fucking great. I hope anyone who ships St*rker gets brutally beaten, seriously. That ship makes me sick, especially because I love my precious IronDad and his SpiderSon.

[@drfifteenmd7561]

Because racism.

[@quintinrickett3952]

I'll just throw in the toxic and problematic BakuDeku ship from My Hero Academia in there, while we're at it.