SHOOTOUT - Loop Pedal & Drum Machine Pedal(s) - Donner vs Lekato vs KMise vs Flamma

[@ExtremeSquared]

Props to every youtube uploader in every field who is the first to crack open electronics for a view inside. A public service. Also, you said you tried to view/copy that (maybe firmware) sd card file in linux. I wonder if you could still copy the disk image from a card reader... "cp /dev/sdb ./test.iso" I'll probably attempt this at some point -- have one in the mail. I don't care about size upgrade, but I'd like to be able to replace the SD if it fails.

[@tadamoriyagi8265]

This is exactly the information I was looking for. Thanks for making such an extremely thorough and detailed video. Hope to see more gear and pedal reviews!

[@daveinDc]

Thanks, will do!

[@FOGHORN515]

Thank you for the great review and information. Saved so much time and money.

[@ChristopherRollins-s7l]

Dude! Kudos to you! 👏🏾you have verified in great detail what I have long suspected: many of these drum/looper pedals are the same cornflakes in a slightly different box. I will save a significant amount of $$$ and end up with a newer design thanks to your video. You deserve the stomp box equivalent of a Nobel Prize 🏆

[@behindthescenesmusic7221]

Thank you for making this video. Exactly what I need to decide.

[@pattap911]

Great review. Just bought the KMise. Thanks!

[@abrunyee]

Thanks for doing this - I was looking at the Flamma and didn't realise they were all basically the same pedal. In the UK today the cheapest option seems to be from STRICH which is £71 for the USB C (newer) version instead of £99 for the Flamma, and I'm sure it's another rebrand of the same circuit. I do think the Flamma has the best looking design though.

[@curtpratt2203]

You did a comprehensive test and comparison, very informative. I can make a smart buy decision now. Thanks for doing this video.

[@peter333]

Great in depth video!! I have the Yuer one, it's the same as almost any of these, they are all based on the same board if you ask me. Mine was dirt cheap at AliExpress sale. Using coupons etc I paid like 50 bucks. Got 2 questions if you don't mind. 1: did you experience loss of drum settings per memory bank when messing with the merger button? It took me some time to figure out that I had to switch off 'merger' before going to drum section again to set up a new recording. If I didn't, it would write over the drum settings for an existing recording. Just wondering if that' just me being stvpid and unexperienced with loopers lol. Question 2: is that the 5150 III 1x12 50W combo? I want one for its low/mid/hi EQ setting for both channels. Thanks in advance 🤘😎🤘

[@juanleandrosantillan4439]

Excellent review my friend! Thank you very much!

[@briancroker2448]

Excellent walk through man. I appreciate the info. It answered questions I had. And agreed...being able to use larger SD cards makes sense...as does being able to import/export and edit our own drum tracks. 👍

[@lox1835]

Thanks for covering everything

[@marcuskomorowski3999]

Perfect, Dave! That's a straight 12-out-of-10-review! You made my decision about which one to go for history. Thx-a-lot, dude! Awesome work! Thumbs up!

[@daveinDc]

TY VVM :)

[@robertozariskeeni1875]

Great review, Thanks brother!

[@zzzonezz]

Hey man, you have the best video on these cheap drum looper pedals. Thanks for the info. I subbed.

[@novorec128]

Thank you, cool man, you just did what others couldn’t, and I’m racking my brain on what to buy, and here’s such a useful video, good health to you, with best wishes from Russia.

[@daveinDc]

Privet moy drug! My mom was from Skov, and my girlfriend is from Moskva! I can understand and barely say simple stuff in Russky. I was thinking of doing an audio track in Russian for this video actually.

[@novorec128]

Отлично. Я такой Лекато купил. Как флешку скопировать и сделать еще одну, а то эти SD умирают быстро. Я пробовал эмулятором скопировать образ и записать на другую карту, лупер виснет на этапе загрузки.

[@novorec128]

Great. I bought this Lekato. How to copy a flash drive and make another one, otherwise these SDs die quickly. I tried to copy the image with an emulator and write it to another card, the looper hangs at the loading stage.@@daveinDc

[@ret01101]

Very useful review. Thank you very much. Do you have any info about Irin looper & drum machine? I suppose it is the new generation (usb-C and moderate price), but I couldn't find any review about. Do you consider, that these toys are reliable, so used at home can work several years? At first sight too many weak points in the electronics (sd card) and software/firmware. I don't feel a reliable robustness in these delicate toys. What do you think?.Thank you again for your review and valuable inputs.

[@Stellar_Soundscape]

Good comprehensive video! Thank you! Which pedal has a reggae drum?

[@jefffffffx]

Thanks for your video! Have you tried to bypass the 4min length limit? did it work?

[@Sm00thR0ckS]

Great review! 1 question: do any of them have drum fills? Thanks!

[@daveinDc]

No fills that I could figure out, which is why I asked for a drum loop editor.

[@daveinDc]

No drum fills that I found, sadly 😢

[@Sm00thR0ckS]

@@daveinDc thanks for the reply. I decided to bite the bullet and I just bought the Boss RC10.

[@-rubbersoul-]

@@daveinDcwhat’s the cheaper pedal w/drum fills?

[@bassbacke]

Those loopers don’t have drum loops, those have hardcoded patterns, that repeat as long as you play them. Beatbuddy uses MIDI internally for the drum pattern parts, so they can be user created. Unless those devices use MIDI files internally, I doubt there is a simple patch to add that functionality.

[@alexandrvetelkin5196]

The main problem is the bypass, Flamma eats the signal. It's not very obvious, but when you have all the pedals with true bypass, you will hear it, it is noticeably stronger on the oscilloscope.

[@kocherpm]

Hi. So you're saying that the Flamma causes problems due to it's impact on the signal chain?

[@StompinGroundChannel]

Nice in-depth review, keep it rockin

[@wilkosolutions]

My friends dad wants it to loop along to a simple swing or jazz beat but none on these are to his liking. Are there any other loop drum machines with better beats or can certain machines have beats uploaded? Maybe he could upload a track he likes and play along?

[@arnohesse5092]

Yeah, that's the kind of comparison gear nerds wanna see! Thank you so much for putting your time in this. I didn't even know there's so many versions of this same pedal. Over here in Europe the Flamma is most present on the market. I'm not sure if the "newer versions" are actually any improvement. USB-C is great just because being a standard across so many devices. Also the emergency-option to hard plug that SD card in your computer for file exchange is nice to have in case the software won't be compatible in future or USB being broken. Apart from that: The hard soldered DC jack is actually a problem. And also look at how the socket of the "older versions" is mechanically connected to the housing, not the PCB, that's how it should be. It is a pedal - it WILL be stepped on... Also, what's making me suspicious is the emptiness inside those 2023 pedals. It COULD BE these are rather a cost-optimized (cheaper) copy than an actual update. Of course, you'd need to look at the top side of these versions PCBs where the ICs obviosly sit. But the separate board with room (cooling) around it in the 2018 type seem durable. So the SD card "feature" could also just have been the cheaper alternative to soldered eMMC. For me the "older version" is still on top and I keep my fingers crossed for software being compatible for long time to come. Don't hope for any firmware/software updates. Just the fact that different manufacturers make a pedal with different hardware but obviously 99,9% same code means there's no will for own R&D.

[@JanTijmes]

Brilliant thanks for doing this

[@garypannone7755]

Thank You that review was Great. You went above and beyond.

[@daveinDc]

I appreciate that!

[@frontcentermusician]

Nice review. Been collecting different looper/ drum pedals. I have been using the Digitech Trio Plus with the FS3X pedal with it. Been playing live weekend gigs with it also. Fun stuff!

[@daveinDc]

I also have the Digitech trio Band Creator, it works well but is not a looper, just drums or I missed that feature.

[@banditcosmo]

Thanks David! Very helpful, I was wondering if all these were the same. Have you tried the Boss RC-10R? I'm either going to get that or the Kmise.

[@somethingelsedoesmatter]

Not the OP but I went on a journey trying to find a looper. I started with the Donner Circle, and I liked it a lot. The only reason I returned it was I run Linux on my computers and the USB was not compatible. I "upgraded" to the Boss, and I hated it. It was not intuitive, felt clunky, it didn't autosave my loops and it was extremely slow when manually saving. I also found it was quieter than the Donner. I returned it as well, and got a Ditto+, which is what I stuck with. It lacks the drums and it's overall simpler than the Donner, but at least the USB works with Linux. I'm now looking at this video to determine if I get a Donner or the slightly cheaper Kmise (they seem identical, from photos), for my son. I want him to have the drum tracks to play along with. They were very inspiring, for me, and a good practice feature. The Boss' drum tracks weren't as good, somehow. The Ditto+ can have backing tracks added to it, but it's not the same as just twisting a knob and changing tempo etc.

[@daveinDc]

I have other loopers, but not the 10R. I sold a Boss 20XL, and I also own a boomerang3.

[@ダーチューブ]

Thank you for the wonderful video. I was surprised that there were so many similar items. I bought an IRIN looper and drum. There were other YUER items as well.

[@ret01101]

In the pictures Irin looks better than any of these loopers and is also inexpensive (on Ali with some luck below $60). How it works? Does it have some hidden shortcomings? Kindly asking for some details, because I couldn't find any review about the Irin looper & drum machine. Thank you in advance.

[@ダーチューブ]

@@ret01101 Same quality as other similar products. It works fine.

[@ret01101]

@@ダーチューブ Thank you. Then I have to buy one. The form factor, the design is very appealing.

[@RichPoser]

Based on this I bought and use the KMISE Looper & Drum. However I cannot get the Win11 PC to recognize it. I downloaded the 2023 softweare and the amd64 driver, but no luck. Is there a Win11 *.inf anywhere that works?? The pedal screen very briefly flashes USB connected, then the PC says cannot recognize device and pedal goes back to Memory/rhythm display.

[@MrGreglarry]

Hi Dave, Thank you for this great video. Some thoughts: I would have liked to hear more, as a wrap up, about what Kmise does that made it better for you. You did speak on some of that. But I would like to hear why Kmise is better than Donner to you and the others. Also, maybe ranking them would be helpful. A real concise review of what made - or didn't make - each one right for how you perform. Again, super helpful video ... just some things that I would love to hear from you with your level of knowledge. Thank you!!

[@themorphicshields4219]

which one had the most useful beats for rock/electronica/shoegaze/

[@melv7040]

Thanks for the video, it was very helpful. I just purchased the Lekato because it was cheaper than the Kmise at this time.

[@brendanr2119]

Ridiculously fantastic and detailed video. Thanks!

[@daveinDc]

Glad it helped!

[@stephblav1758]

Hey David. Thank you for this great comparison. Can you confirm 1 thing if possible. The LEKATO & The KMISE are essentially the same (same hardware in a different box) correct? Thank you

[@adrianhiggins4723]

I totally agree with the previous comment. You have saved me lots of time on research. I think you just put Beat Buddy in the looper market. LOL Great review and comparison thanks again!

[@daveinDc]

Glad I could help!

[@eh2k162]

Thanks for showing the dautherboard at 6:13

[@joseluismartinez7322]

Just a question, same software ( ex. from Donner or other) works for all units?

[@nasercia]

Thank you, it was a big help. Well, I'm guessing, did you return it or keep it... for me, editing the rhythms is crucial. I've got drumbudy, I've edited my rhythms but I can't control the playing tempo, in this I can ot edit rhythms ...

[@daveinDc]

So mixed bag, you CAN control the tempo, but CANNOT edit the drum pattern. The idea I had was to use my roland TR08 and make a pattern to record to MP3, then just overdub the guitar and bass to the original track. I would have all the fills I program then...

[@moGear6253]

YESS YESS YESS BEING ABLE TO EDIT DRUM LOOPER WOULD BE A GRAND SLAM

[@daveinDc]

I have been thinking of being able to edit the drum loops. And I am norepinephrine sure we will ever get this option. I believe the drum loops are hard coded Audio / MP3 files. In order to edit, the device would need a bunch of drum samples to play and record, which I do not think it has. The best you can do is make a drum loop with another device or software, and save it as an audio file. Then you would have to overdub the other parts (guitar, bass) on top on the audio drum track.

[@sgrimm7346]

Thanks...good video. I'm wondering if you can turn off the drum on the Flamma? I like the Flamma features but I don't need the drum tracks while I'm playing....at least so far. Thanks again.

[@daveinDc]

Whether you use the drum or the looper or both is 100% up to you. Yes, you can use the looper and never touch the drum rythums.

[@johndotson920]

Well I'm sold on the Kmise now

[@shimmyfix9315]

Are there Crash cymbals on every bar ? If so it makes the drums useless . Nice detective work on the build dates.

[@daveinDc]

Not that I noticed, it depends on which pattern you use, but most did not have a crash on each measure.

[@daveinDc]

SO I am the OP, but I need to make another video because I discovered something incredible about this (and the other) pedals from this OEM. I do NOT monetize my posts/videos. I do NOT ask or receive monies for products I suggest. However, I found an app that take this pedal BEYOND, way BEYOND a looper & drum machine. The app is called Moises, I got it on Android, but I think these is an Apple version too. So, why do I mention this? The Moises app allows you to take ANY MP3 file (I think other audio formats are supported) and create a multi-tracked version of the same audio file. Think taking a track and reverse engineering it back to the master recorded in the studio. Then you can mute out any track/instrument and EXPORT to a MP3 or other audio format (only tested MP3). Why does this matter with regard to this pedal? SIMPLE: Instead of loading recorded loops, I can now upload the MP3 minus the lead guitar, and I can now play along to my favorite tracks. Sure, I have been doing this with my phone or laptop, but that can be somewhat of a hassle where I have to quickly click the mouse/tap the phone screen, then grab my guitar and hopefully, if I am quick enough, start the track on the first note. No more am I doing that shuffle, because now, with Moises and the Kmise / Lotmusic looper pedal I can start any one of 40 uploaded tracks with my FOOT!!! The only issue is the tracks are limited to 4 minutes, but since I am stuck in the 1980's with regard to rock songs, this usually does not cause a problem. I have my fingers crossed that a firmware updated will allow user SD cards and lift the 4-minute limit on uploaded audio files to these pedals. And if you watched the video, we have a much greater chance of getting a firmware update from a pedal made 4 months ago vs a pedal made in 2018... PLEASE KMISE, update your firmware and release the true greatness of your Drum Looper pedal! New video to come showcasing this new feature I never thought about when I purchased this pedal. Again, the app that separates tracks is called MOISES, it's in the Android store.

[@kellyseeman741]

Use your phone or tablet , store the files in 48 khz at 24 bits resolution . Thanks

[@lazyjerryguitarman]

Hi great review, could you please repost the software link for the Lekato unit as the link above seems incomplete/doesn't work. Thanks

[@lazyjerryguitarman]

Ah I went to their website the link must have changed Ive got it!

[@lazyjerryguitarman]

Hmm downloaded but fails to run with an error ? I’m using High Sierra maybe I need a later version of the OS on my iMac ?

[@lazyjerryguitarman]

Ok sorted. Got the looper today and the software still didn't load so I upgraded my Mac to Monterey and it worked fine. Didn't realise that High Sierta is old 2017! Anyway hopefully anyone using the software will now know that the earliest version of OS for the Mac supported, is Monterey. I also looked in the back and the date stamp is 03 04 2023 :)

[@pcpanikMusik]

Thanks for your effort. One open question: Are the drums in stereo?

[@pcpanikMusik]

@@daveinDc there are two separate left and right channel inputs and outputs. It is a stereo looper. 🙂 I bought the „lekato“. But it made weird sounds when looping. Distortion and crackling. Send it back and bought the “donner” and it works fine. Unfortunately: The drum patterns are in mono in both.

[@daveinDc]

Agreed, I tried to see if the drums were in stereo, it outputs a mono signal on each side, left and right.

[@joshs100]

just 4 minutes of recording?? how does it fair with the other lekato -- please stabilize the camera next time , dizzying . Ty for the much anticipated informative info

[@daveinDc]

So I purchased a better camera and lights, and a tripod to stabilize. I am making an effort to improve the quality of my videos. I also will use DaVinci to edit before posting.

[@joshs100]

@@daveinDc ty

[@tobiaslieblein2686]

Just wondering if this guys quantisize the loops recorded without the drums like Digitech and Boss units do.. otherwise you have to be very careful to get perfect loops....

[@polcat79]

Sadly the Lekato looper i had been sent by amzn stopped working within an hour of plugging it in. Within the first half hour of using it my recordings/loops with drums would skip and freeze continuously until the entire unit became unresponsive. It is a rotten shame because the lekato pedal looked and felt amazing. great quality materials and had a nice durable feel and weight to it. sent back for a refund.

[@truthwinseverytime8805]

Was probably the SD card.

[@michaelcard9382]

I knw what you mean about wanting to edit the drums much like u can with a drum sequencer where u cann add n take away layers, fills etc.Question? So about the instrument cables.I have a lekato in my cart and a standard guitar cable cuz i only have 1 as my amp has built in effects but i obviously need another with this pedal but u mentioned one or two rings on the cable end but a standard 1/4 inch guitar cord will work like any other pedal correct? And will read my effects that im hearing right?( the amp iz a line6 has distortions, chorus, reverb etc) prob a dumb question but just wanna make sure if i set to distortion on my Amp thats what the looper will record with a drum pattern of my choosing.Ive used Rack effects, multi effects pedals, 8 track mini disc recirders,16 track drum sequencers but this is my first looper pedal and thought this may be great for practice and layering,improv etc but wanna be sure it reads the same signal coming out of my amp..hope that makes sense.I dont see why it wouldnt. Thank you btw

[@mjjames2442]

I need to go somewhere and find out what these actually do. Drum, loop?

[@daveinDc]

These pedals are basically loopers that have an added drum pattern selection you can use, or just a metronome if you prefer.

[@100roberthenry]

+1 on being able to edit the drum beats.....

[@дмитрийИванов-н7т6щ]

Они почти одинаковые получается?

[@daveinDc]

Цель моего видео - показать, что они похожи, но не идентичны.

[@дмитрийИванов-н7т6щ]

Ссылки можно на луперы?

[@daveinDc]

Ссылки на все есть в моем описании.

[@дмитрийИванов-н7т6щ]

@@daveinDc купил Лекато, доволен.Спасибо.

[@hybrydsanity5857]

so using them all you believe they are all even in performance and sound not just features ?

[@daveinDc]

Yes, not even a small difference. They all use the same chip and components. David

[@gillespage]

Thank you for this very good review. I wonder if the BPM knob works with any time stretching in merge mode, if a second instrument on RIGHT input will be send to RIGHT output or to the mix and if we can split the outputs to send drums on the RIGHT output ?

[@daveinDc]

Good idea, I would have to test.

[@tim8745]

Holy Jumping camera batman! Great review otherwise. Maybe start off with the Flamma and Donner being the same hardware, and Kmise & lekato being the same hardware, and then the software for all 4 being the same.

[@moskaljakunagyljaku]

That's actually crazy that none of them has headphones output, make them useless for me, same issue as all other looper pedals..

[@daveinDc]

You could use an adapter and plug your phones into the right output, of if you wanted use just the left output if you have a modeler before this pedal. Just make sure it is the last pedal in your chain before the phones.

[@moGear6253]

JESUS Man your a jeanus holy cow nice revuie..the donner dose not like 100 mill amp's 300 or 500 works the best ... my question Flammer 2023 come out with a C plug when you say soft wair is it a DAW??.. so you can import backing track's ??? thank you great revuie

[@daveinDc]

Did not see the 2023 Donner update, I will look for it. Yes, you can import tracks 2 ways: with their web app or by taking the sdcard out and copying the tracks to the card in a laptop.

[@rebeccaabraham8652]

And nobody has any issue with purchasing four ‘similar’ devices, opening them all up and poking around inside them - and then sending back the three most expensive ones, with a fake excuse…? I applaud the curiosity… but deride the method. PS - I’ve just bought a differently branded version of this device - because I’d already worked out from other videos and the spec list that they were the same… and I’m looking forward to a very rhythmic xmas holiday!

[@daveinDc]

First off, I returned within 7 days, and I did not need to enter a reason for return, so no excuse was given. Second, as a consumer, what is the different between buying each individually and then returning? I did keep 1 of the pedals, and I gave one to a friend, so I only returned 50%, and my reason was due to the fact that they are older models vs the newer Kmise version?

[@marksmusicCC]

Another much need mod is the ability to pan drums and loops so drums on left and loop on right ( or whatever) I not long got one of the Lekato models and so far it is the most useless damn looper I have to date , the drum sound EQ is absolute crap, most drum loopers are, easy to correct with an EQ pedal but then my guitar will sound like crap because it does not need any extra EQ, why have stereo outputs at if you have no control over them ... this pedal is a total waste of $100

[@PabloPablo225]

Awesome review! Thanks a lot