Shootout: ToneKing Imperial MKII Vs Fender 64 Deluxe Reverb Custom Handwired

[@AndorMatus]

Gary, I am addicted on Your videos. You are playing from hearth. The sound is soo organic, and the guitars and amps are hand in hand in every video.

[@gair1944]

Thank you for such kind words. Sorry about the delay is responding your very nice post.

[@ricklanders]

I love the Deluxe Reverb, it's probably my favorite amp, but the Tone King just sounds AMAZING! Clear, warm, open, sparkly, it's got it all. Between the two channels and the attenuator, it seems like it has a lot of flexibility and could do just about anything.I get the sense that it would cut through slightly better, too. Great demo, thanks for this.

[@gair1944]

Thanks for the nice comment Rick. I agree. I have been playfully by the Tone King almost exclusively for the past few months. My Deluxe is getting lonely.

[@Baci302]

Okay, I already love the Tone King/Strat combo right off the bat.

[@gair1944]

This Fender Custom Shop '61 Wildwood 10 is a killer guitar! It sounds good through every amp.

[@llwonder]

My preference is the tone king. It just sounds so good. It has the attenuator and lead channel too, I think that makes it way more usable than a deluxe reverb. I think you can make these sound the same if you change the speaker and EQ. The tone king is nearly the same circuit as a deluxe

[@gair1944]

Thanks for listening and commenting

[@Chris_mueller]

Thank you! I have a 64 deluxe reverb and TK imperial MKI. Absolutely love them both. But the softness of the bass of the imperial is something else. It has this warm, very present tone. Never heard anything like it. And i owned many amps including now a two rock traditional clean 100w.

[@GordonPavilion]

The Imperial MkII, frankly, is another level. Had mine for four years…love it!

[@gair1944]

These Imperial MKII's are superb!

[@Jakal-pw8yq]

I'm a lucky guy, I've worked in the Vintage gear field for over 30 years and have put together a decent collection of guitars and amps. I actually have a 64 Deluxe reverb, a 65 Pro Reverb and a 66 Super Reverb. In addition I've got a Tone King Imperial Mark 1 that I purchased the Iron Man 2 mini power attenuator for and I've got a Dr Z maz18 Junior NR with the blue celestion alnico speaker in it. Lastly I have a 1959 4 input Tweed Deluxe again with a blue celestion alnico in it. Out of all those amplifiers my number one favorite is my 59 tweed Deluxe and my number two without question is the Tone King imperial. I just think it has so much more harmonic content than the 64 Deluxe Reverb and with the addition of the lead channel it's far more versatile. I would also add that I prefer the Reverb and the tremolo in the Tone King as well. Just my two cents worth and like I said I'm a lucky guy because I bought those black face amps in the mid-90s before they were over the top crazy expensive! And I will never ever sell them! Same thing with my Tweed Deluxe. I paid $600 for it in 1991 and it had a trashed speaker so I put the blue celestion in it and it's just beyond cool! I don't mean to sound boastful or anything like that because like I said I bought all this gear way before the Vintage thing put it out of the reach of the everyday players such as myselfs hands.

[@gair1944]

What a great frame of reference. That’s how I read it. Thank you much for sharing the background. I am loving the Tone King Imperial MkII. I just did speaker swap to a Fat Jimmy C1270 and the amp is even more impressive.

[@dianeduffcroop8158]

Fantastic demo by the way! I love the way you took us through those beautiful chords and let us hear those amps breathe and hear the chime and all the beauty that they both have. I get really tired of demos where the guitar player simply shreds and shows off his chops and I come away not really knowing much about the amp but knowing a lot about the guitar player.

[@gair1944]

Thanks so much for your kind words and for listening. Fast/fancy chops sometimes make it harder for me to listen 'into' what an amp or instrument can deliver.

[@JonathanBarrieBass]

@@gair1944 Totally agree with the person you replied to. Nice to hear a demo with some space between the notes. Beautiful guitar playing. Both amps sound great in their own way. Thank you!

[@Bigfun2023]

I love listening to you play ! Fantastic!!

[@gair1944]

You are truly very kind. Thank you.

[@lescaster2179]

I stumbled onto a great deal for a like-new, late 2021 manufactured CME lacquered tweed version of the TK MkII that my wife graciously decided to gift to me for Christmas this year. Sounds amazing and I love the tweed/blackface dual personalities as much as my wife loves the built-in attenuator. I can't imagine parting with this amp. So many great sounds in my head that come out of that amp.

[@gair1944]

What a great Christmas gift and what a great wife! Glad you're loving it! Thanks for sharing your experience.

[@goodknight37]

Wow what a score! Congratulations on the amp also😉

[@Iron-and-strings]

perfect demo and exactly what i needed in order to decide on the Tone King for my next purchase. Thank you Gary

[@gair1944]

Did you get a Tone King yet? I hope you love it. Keep in mind I did change the speaker in mine to a Fat Jimmy C1270. I think it's richer and more impressive than the stock Tone King 33 speaker. I could not bond with that speaker.

[@Iron-and-strings]

@@gair1944I sure did and love it, but I get what you’re saying about the speaker and may do the same switch out

[@gair1944]

@@Iron-and-strings I will however say the Fat Jimmy is very bass and treble rich. It can be a little but more forward because its punchier. I run the Treble and Bass EQ lower than I did with the stock Tone King 33 Eminence built speaker. This works just find. Just something to be aware of. When you replace a lower efficiency speaker with one that is higher efficiency you get more volume at the same setting on the volume knob than you did with the lower efficiency speaker. The higher efficiency speaker can be punchier and tighter. (In good ways if that's what you like) Some prefer sag so choose your poison as they say.

[@raoul_duke7253]

The clarity and richness difference was evident the second you started on the Deluxe… which I have always loved… but the tone king, even the Neural plugin when I need to go light, is a game changer for me…. Between that and my old matchless, they cover all the ground I need.

[@gair1944]

Thanks for listening Raoul. Both are exceptional.

[@CBGypsy03]

Back again! Time to bring out my I30 and TK. Beautiful combo, great choice in gear and keep it up. Thank you 😊

[@gair1944]

Thanks Cody! Was that you deciding on an I-35LCV or I-30?? Either way, thanks for stopping by.

[@CBGypsy03]

@@gair1944 No, I commented on another one of your videos with the super bee :). Cheers

[@TheGuitar1232]

I have the 64 HW too, its a great amp! but i much prefer the bright channel on it...would be nice to hear a comparison between the bright channel and the TK MKII

[@cap217cap217]

What speaker comes in the TK? I think the DRRI can get closer with the right speaker. The stock speaker makes it scooped and a lot of highs and blah lows. To me that the DR sound in a way, especially when driven. But the TK is smoother. I made a video of a DR Handwired with the stock vs EV12L in a Rivera modded DR and the TK sounds more like that speaker.

[@gair1944]

Toneking Imperial MKII comes with a speaker labelled ToneKing 33. It is built by eminence. I didn't like it at all and replaced it with a fat Jimmy C1270 and that gives it more clean headroom, punch and it is sweeter. I do have to dial down the low and High EQ a little bit (9-10 o'clock on both) because the speaker has more lows and highs. But it is sensational in the TK.

[@dustinarnold79]

As someone who has has a deluxe and i just got the imperial, the imperial is way more versatile,amazing amp so warm and responsive

[@gair1944]

I agree 100%! The TK Imperial MKII offers a lot more range in terms of attenuation, lead channel, clean headroom if need etc. It's only shortcoming is the reverb. It is just ok.

[@Jam-m7m]

@@gair1944 what year was you Imperial made

[@gair1944]

@@Jam-m7m I think this is a 2021. I can't remember when I bought it but it was new from Sweetwater sometime after the Pandemic started subsiding.

[@Sergo50011]

Thanks! Für mich hört sich Fender Delux 64 besser an! Klarer! Ich entscheide mich für - Delux 64!!!

[@ronl514]

Great video, Great music and 2 Great amps!!

[@gair1944]

Thanks Ron. I love them both indeed!

[@markn4526]

Nice demo! Without hearing the Tone King I'd say the Deluxe Reverb sounds really, really good. However, once hearing the Tone KIng, it's so much richer sounding with so much more depth and articulation there's no going back.

[@gair1944]

I know exactly what you mean. The Deluxe reverb really does stand in its own. But next to the Tone King imperial, the TK has “more” range and depth

[@dat219]

Very nice comparison and playing. Have a 1968 deluxe reverb the sound is wonderful

[@gair1944]

I love the 68 Deluxe! You have a great amp.

[@mattg082]

Hey I ended up with the Sky King in the end. I had both here, and should have recorded a video. I did get to run the Imperial MK2 through the Sky King cab…huge difference to me! I can see the appeal now of the head and cab Imperial MK2. The speaker and cab make a huge difference. In the end the 6v6 and cab in the Imperial was too mid focused for my playing style. The Sky King gave me the extra ummph I needed, and it’s flexible enough to get it close to an Imperial sound. I’ve found I love just leaving a micro amp on at unity or slightly above on the Sky King and volume around 2-3. Treble at 5-6 and bass around 4-5. It’s much more like a classic Fender EQ style. Where as the Imperial MK2 had that treble top you either hate or love! Works great for clean and slightly overdriven. But a Big Muff on the Sky King in comparison is going into grunge/Nirvana territory with a huge sound stage…only drawback is it’s a bit heavy. But for gigging I keep it at 2.5 volume, micro amp on unity post 5 drives/distortions. Mic on it and sits 50/50 live. The amp becomes more of a monitor at that point for me. But sounds wonderful with just a SM57 on the left side hanging down.

[@gair1944]

Love all the info you shared Matt! I should mention that sometime after making this video, I swapped out the Tone King 33 Speaker and replaced it with a Fat Jimmy C1270. That is a 70w speaker with much deeper lows and crystal clear treble that I love. I found a sweet spot with the new speaker is treble at 9-10 o'clock and bass around 9 o'clock. It gives the amp more clean headroom making it seem louder at at low volume setting. I'm sure the Sky King can play larger and louder but man, the Imperial MKII with Fat Jimmy C1270 Speaker is rocking my world these days. Overdrive pedals sound absolutely amazing through it too! When I use my Collings guitars with P90's, OMG! Wonderful.

[@Rich915]

I’d love me a Tone King! Great breakup. Thx for the Demo. I sold my Drip Edge ‘69 Dlx Rvb, but kept my ‘65 BFPR… Really like your YT Vids 🔥

[@gair1944]

Thank you so much! I am just getting to know the Toneking imperial MKII but I liked it from the start!

[@jimmyjams1974]

@garyroberts you made a comment about gigging with the deluxe at the volume of 3 which I would expect. How would that compare to a Princeton? I’m trying to decide between the two or a Princeton with the 12 inch speaker. Is it nice to have the extra headroom when you need it? I am thinking of getting the fender to complement the Mesa 25 but would have to trade some stuff.

[@funkyjones]

Tone King 0:48 Deluxe Reverb 1:51 Tone King 2:53 Deluxe Reverb 3:54 Tone King 4:59 with pedal 6:04 Deluxe Reverb 7:58 with pedal 9:05 Tone King at 12 o'clock attenuated 11:32 Deluxe Reverb 13:46 with vibrato 14:31 Tone King with vibrato 15:16 attenuated 15:42 tweed channel 16:28

[@mkds7756]

I’d take the deluxe for sure, it’s got the chime.

[@gair1944]

Thanks for listening and sharing your vote. The Deluxe is classic and has that traditonal fender chime for sure.

[@larrypearson9384]

Beautiful work! I have a fender deluxe reverb reissue, which is a suite amp, and my Tone King is set to arrive tomorrow! So I’ve been enjoying the reviews! Some great guitar playing by the way, bro!

[@gair1944]

Thanks Larry. Let us know what you think of your Tone King! Congrats!

[@FakeGlasses]

Deluxe reverb all day, at least in this video. Same exact loops/playing and I get lost/moved by the fender. Especially when you played the solo tone. I'd be curious to hear this same shootout with both amps playing into the same speaker/cab.

[@gair1944]

I tried different speakers with the deluxe . There is an ideal synergy the way it is configured with the Jensen.

[@mikeb5372]

Very nice playing!

[@gair1944]

Thanks so much

[@blues7354]

I think I can be a little biased since I'm the original owner of the Deluxe and I own an Imperial. I had RCA 6V6's in the Deluxe and RCA 12AX7's in the Deluxe and experimented with a few speakers this is what I hear. The Deluxe is Classic Fender. The TK is classic Fender plus. What I mean by plus in just my opinion and my ears is the TK has a warmth that the Deluxe doesn't quite have. The Deluxe has that classic Fender clean (I would call it shimmer) but clean. We can split hairs all day about the tone stacks and how they interact with tone controls etc.......I think the TK can get very close to the Deluxe, but the Deluxe just doesn't have the warmth the TK has. Plus I think the speakers are completely different. Also the TK seems to have a tad more bottom end, which might that warmth I'm hearing.

[@gair1944]

Well said Jeff. The TK will deliver more supportive impact where the deluxe sags in a classic sparkly glassy fender way. I love the Deluxe but I think the toneking is going to be more versatile

[@mattg082]

Tone King can get a lot more smooth bottom end. Especially setting the bass to 7-8! It’s opens up like in a 3D way when doing this and sounds very good with Jazz cleans.

[@richardhenrickson6711]

Tone King. Magnificent character.

[@gair1944]

Thanks for stopping by and checking out the video. I hope it was helpful. I agree with you. The Tone King has a bit more going on and is more versatile with its attenuator. I don't use the lead channel but that is an entirely different flavor for those who might enjoy it. I prefer my drive pedals through the Tone King versus using its lead channel.

[@joshmuz9018]

Don’t know why but never heard any fender style or based amp that beats the deluxe to my ears. Maybe it’s just familiar from so many famous songs but it just sounds right

[@gair1944]

@@joshmuz9018 because Leo got it right the first time? No reason to argue with how great the Deluxe Reverb sounds.

[@joeblack7841]

Great comparison of 2 wonderful amps. I thoroughly enjoy that. I've been looking into the Tone King lately and wondering about the clean headoom for looping. I'm a solo artist and rely on multiple loops for my concerts. I add keyboards and other sounds for spice. In this video it seemed that the Fender had more clarity in each layer when you tried the loop, but could just be the youtube video compression. What are your thoughts on the Tone King clean headroom (with stock speaker) for looping/layering? I'd love to hear your experience. Thanks for the great video.

[@gair1944]

Hi Joe, I am not a fan of the stock speaker in the Tone King Imperial MKII. I changed it to a Fat Jimmy C1270 and it is dramatically better sounding. More headroom and more clarity for loops and multi layered loops.

[@lazvt8469]

Getting my TK Imp MKii tomorrow and it will be put to work immediately earning its keep against my son's new Hamstead Artist 20 (great amp!!) sitting next to me. The Hampstead is the reason I felt the need to get a 'boutique' amp to really get the most out of my too many guitars. Nice demo...I think I made an excellent choice.

[@gair1944]

Great choice. The TK Imperial MKII gets great tone. I upgraded the speaker to a Fat Jimmy C1270 and love it even more. I often use the Ironman Attenuator dialed back two clicks. Gives ideal edge of break up and when I dig in the amp delivers a killer classic rock tone. Highly recommended. FYI - I am not familiar with Hamstead amps. Will check them out. Thx for stopping by.

[@lazvt8469]

@@gair1944 The TKing was very impressive...but didn't best the Hamstead for me or my son. So, I bought a speaker that was in the Hamstead and put in the TKing and it was an improvement to an already great sound...but not quite the magic I was hoping for....so, took the speaker out to sell TKing. Well, as a lefty I can't will my sizable guitar collection to my righty and player son....so, I'm keeping the TKing after all and he can have it when I'm gone in 20-25 years, Lord willing. Plan to put that Celestion CreamBack back in...oh, saw just today that the TK 20th Anniversary model had that very same G12 M65 CreamBack in it. What a coinkidink.

[@gair1944]

@@lazvt8469 Thanks for circling back. I didn't like the stock Tone King 33 speaker either. I replaced it with a Fat Jimmy C1270 and for me, it is perfect! Love the amp with the Fat Jimmy C1270. The amp is just 'ok' with the Tone King 33. (I think that is a rebranded and maybe custom spec'd Eminence speaker based on one of their models)

[@tommybrown4191]

I have the same TK amp and I find myself rolling off the bass a lot but overall for me the TK has "that sound" that makes me happy every time I strum a chord or play a lick. I also really like the attenuator and the lead channel. The Fender sounds OK to me but the TK is way better in my (probably biased because I own one) opinion.

[@gair1944]

I roll the bass waaaay down too. Just installed a Fat Jimmy C1270 speaker and it took the amp to another level.

[@moshezarviv1252]

@@gair1944 Hi gary. did the same with my TK imperial but the speaker is alnico celestion gold. did you try that speaker ? the Gold is not fully broked in yet and I hope it'll be a significant upgrade. My question is , according to your experience , don't you think that swapping the custom speaker change the character of the amp ? is it worth it ? and would you try alnico on the imperial ? thank you - great video .

[@gair1944]

@@moshezarviv1252 Hi Moshe Zarviv, I gigged the Imperial MKII last night. I replaced the Stock eminence "Tone King 33" speaker with a Fat Jimmy C1270 speaker. It is a 70W speaker and very efficient. It gave the Imperial MKII a bit more clean headroom that is impressive. I didn't need it. I dialed the Attenuator back one notch in fact. I was blown away how good it sounds. I never tried a Celestion Gold with this amp. That is a great speaker. I am a fan of the speaker. I personally opted for a ceramic magnet speaker instead of Alnico because this is an american voiced amp. But that Celestion Gold is a great speaker and your suggestion makes me curious. I'll bet it would be great! Would it change the character of the amp? To some degree yes, but I was looking for something a little sweeter and I found it with this Fat Jimmy C1270. But now you make me want to try a Celestion Gold! Ha. (Mostly just curious. I am very happy where things are with the amp right now)

[@moshezarviv1252]

@@gair1944 thanks Gary. Your video and comments are very useful for us. Glad you found a good matching speaker for your amp. Besides, we all know, these's no frontier how far we can go acquiring and upgrading new gear... Thanks again and cheers from Israel.

[@writewheel]

Would love to be a fly on the wall for this. Although volume matched, I'm hearing the reverb more on the TK which affects its character and brightness of the amp. I'm also very curious about how and where you're "mic ing" this and your recording signal chain. Tasty playing as always.

[@gair1944]

The mic is the condenser built into the recorder. I set it up straight across from the amps side-by-side so they would both be on axis. Were you hearing the reverb too much on the ToneKing Imperial? Maybe I should dial it back slightly. Always open to suggestions. One more thing; After making this recording today I installed some well source strong RCA 12ax7's in all slots on the Imperial (Except for the 12AT7 slot) and O-M-G! I'm gonna have to do another shootout. I have all RCA's in my 64 Deluxe. They brought the sparkle and dimensional depth of the Imperial up notably!

[@writewheel]

@@gair1944 May I ask what the recorder is?

[@ralphprice5136]

I have what I believe is a great combination for tone generating - Fender Blues Jr., Fender Princeton Reverb and Tone King Imperial II. They each provide very distinct attributes and are perfect for my in-home studio!

[@gair1944]

That's a nice trifecta of amps. Something for any occasion. Love it.

[@okaytastic6691]

The deluxe is what you’ve heard on recordings your whole life. The Tone King is improved in every way. It depends on if you want classic or classic improved.

[@modestoney1577]

i wouldn`t call it "improved", because that implies it is objectively better. i think "modernised" would be are more fitting term. both are great, they are just different. The Tone King has more balls, i find the Deluxe to be sweeter.

[@funkyjones]

The Tone King has the mids you want on a live gig. To me it sounds so much warmer and fuller than the Fender plus you get the tweed channel and attenuator.

[@gair1944]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I completely agree.

[@YouTubeHandlesAreMoronic]

Both sound great. For solo guitar especially, I'd choose the Tone King. More body to the note, especially on melody lines. The Fender's treble sound's thin and slightly nasal in comparison. If I were a rhythm player, I might put the Fender first.

[@gair1944]

Great insight and hear the amps the same.

[@60CycleStrum]

Hey Gary, great playing, and both amps sound great. Which of these two amps do you prefer these days?

[@gair1944]

This is a late reply. Both amps are great. Really hard to choose. But for my needs the Deluxe Reverb is a little more classic and easier to carry to and from gigs.

[@sergethiriet3740]

Great Gary as usual :-). Have you ever tried to record everything on the loop pedal, then send it to the 2 amps with a switch so you can really compare the exact same playing?

[@gair1944]

I have tried that but strangely, when I record a loop with one amp, sometimes when I plug it into the other amp, the impedance makes the volumes different and it does not always give a true 'apples to apples' comparison as you might expect. That also doesn't give me the player feedback in terms of how an amp feels and responds when I am playing. They are not always the same. Making music is an organic interactive experience. The way an amp responds influences my touch and attack. If I approach this in a pure clinical manner, it may not reflect how an amp or guitar sounds based on how it feels and responds. Does that make sense?

[@sergethiriet3740]

@@gair1944 oh waow. I totally understand. Never thought of that. Great answer Gary!

[@HiHello-ku1fl]

I love the Tone King as you can do alot with it and it is handy with the attenuator and being able to get more tweed tweedy type tones and blackface type tones but I'm so used to the classic Fender Blackface tone that I do prefer the Deluxe reverb slightly even with an overdrive pedal. It seems very open and I like a lot of top end anyway. I guess its more scooped and brighter than the Tone King.

[@gair1944]

I heard it this way too. One of the reasons I made a Video with just the Strat and the Toneking is because it does not leave me wanting when I play it alone. It is musical, inspiring and gives great player feedback to my attack and touch sensitivity. After making this demo today I took a break. Then I installed well tested strong RCA 12ax7's from a very reliable source. I put them in all slots on the Imperial (except for the 12AT7 slot) and O-M-G!! I'm gonna have to do another shootout. They brought the sparkle and dimensional depth of the Imperial up notably! I mean it went from really good to magical! So I thought. Another demo will be forthcoming when I get time. Might be a few days still.

[@HiHello-ku1fl]

@@gair1944 I've been wanting an Imperial for awhile now and yes much more rewarding to the player. Isn't it less expensive than the handwired 64 Deluxe reverb as well?

[@gair1944]

@@HiHello-ku1fl Yes, you can get a new Toneking Imperial MKII with 15% off deals when they come up. That makes it around $2490. The Fender 64 Deluxe Reverb Custom Handwired is around $2995 now I think?

[@edc3093]

@@gair1944 Gary, please point me to where there are 15% off deals on the Tone King? I have searched the US market an cannot find any (that includes Reverb).

[@gair1944]

@@edc3093 I think It was one of those holiday sales. Not advertised. I may be selling mine however. Love it but its not dramatically different from what I can get from my Fender 64 Deluxe. Not an urgency but I hate having gear that takes space that I don't gig with. I'll try it again at a show this Friday and compare it with my Deluxe and see how that shakes out at a live show.

[@druwk]

They both sound great. The Deluxe sounds more responsive and resonate (clean), but it might just be more directly pointed at your phone? The Gained up sounds were smoother on the Imperial? Don’t really dig Jensen speakers broken up (Deluxe). Over all if I had to choose just one, and I could play loudly, I would probably go with the Deluxe, with a different speaker?

[@gordonl2140]

I’m torn between purchasing these 2 amps. In your opinion, which one of these is better for achieving the Philip Sayce/SRV tone? (The imperial seems to be warmer/less glassy than the deluxe?) Great vid btw

[@gair1944]

Hi Gordon. Man, tough question. The Imperial is indeed less 'glassy' but it still delivers a great blackface sound. The Deluxe is killer for a couple classic sounds; Blackface pure cleans and overdriven "Fender single coil guitar through a Fender amp". Yeah, you can nail SRV tones through the Deluxe for sure. But depending on your touch , technique and attack, you could likely achieve great Sayce/SRV tones from the Imperial. The Tone King is more versatile with its attenuator and it can also deliver louder pure cleans where the Deluxe breaks up earlier. Does that help? Feel free to email me at [e-mail]

[@gordonl2140]

@@gair1944 Thanks for taking your time to reply! I shall email you with more questions

[@Sergo50011]

Hello, you once mentioned here about "FAT JIMMY SPEAKERS c1270" for your Tone King Imperial mkii!!! Which Fat Jimmy sneaker would you recommend for my Tone King Sky King?? Best regards Sergio

[@gair1944]

I continue to love and recommend the Fat Jimmy C1270. That would be an excellent speaker for the Sky King. Great amp! I love the Sky King.

[@Sergo50011]

Thank you!!! Thank you very much!!! I will follow your advice. Best regards Sergio

[@deanallen927]

Great video, the amps sound great but I have a hard time hearing everything you're saying, so I'll just ask. With the bands I play with a Deluxe just doesn't have the head room and volume, so I've been thinking about a Vibrolux Reverb. Is the Imperial louder than the Deluxe?

[@gair1944]

Dean, I installed a Fat Jimmy c1270 speaker in my Tone King imperial. It was good before and has more clean headroom than a deluxe but after the speaker upgrade the thing stays tight, and much more supportive and punchy compared to the Deluxe which gets saggy and squishy the harder you push it. I am super impressed with the greater clean headroom of the a imperial.

[@shredhiker6209]

Sounds fantastic, thanks for sharing.

[@dg3432]

Which do you like better. thanks niece review

[@gair1944]

The Deluxe is a “little” more classic but I play the Tone King Imperial a lot more. In upgraded the forks to a more efficient Fat Jimmy C1270 and it has more clean headroom now and is overall more versatile. Especially with the built in 5 position Ironman attenuator.

[@jimcastillo8950]

Boy that Tone King is a great amp. I wonder what a Mosrite guitar would sound plugged in...... thank you.........

[@gair1944]

Thanks for listening Jim.

[@1176hambone]

The midrange on the deluxe with the alnico is crucial. In a recording the engineer will be boosting 700-1.5k on the ImperIAL

[@gair1944]

Yeah the Imperial is probably mid scooped

[@mattg082]

Have the tone king MK2 myself. Great amp! However for comparison probably should have plugged into the reverb channel that has the bright cap. Especially since you aren’t going 5 and over with it. In this version I’ve found the bright cap not to be too bad Vs other amps. It is picky with some heavy gain pedals. But you could clip the cap, and if you want it back get a tech to solder it back for $20. Even a beginner could do that easy. Or put it on a switch or pull pot. I find for me with rhythm I live eq wise on 4 Treble and 6 bass. This is a good setting for me at all levels with my pedals! It takes everything pretty good. I actually have an old DOD Metal X that goes for $250 now…crazy to me. Well it’s a darker distortion pedal with a meh buffer…so it’s dark and takes very well. Pedals I have that go flawless with this amp stock no mods so far have been. Warm Audio Foxxy Tone Fuzz. Jekyl and Hyde Red V1 based on the TS808 and Marshal Shredmaster/Governor type. That pedal works very well. Also the Morning Glory Blues Breaker Style with both normal and distortion tone. With just these 3pedals and the amp. I can do 50s to 90s Nirvana Nervermind tones, and even 2000s garage rock revival stuff. Like The Strokes, White Stripes, Interpol and even some Queens of the Stone Age stuff on the Tweed lead channel. I’m an indie rock player, and was a little concerned about brightness. But overall no issues here and sounds way better than the 4 Fender RI amps I returned. All the new Fenders outside the $3k+ 64 hand wired are total crap imo. Well, out the box they are for sure. You pretty much need a tech to do a full check and possibly some upgrades on the power tune sockets to get it correct. I spent months after playing Mesa CaliTweed, V40 and all those. The Tone King won out! I’m use to the Fender Super with a mid and bright switch. So for me that was the only issue I had to grasp. Just finding my treble and Bass set it and leave it volume. Also it’s a big difference on the floor Vs on a table for me. Big perks that I can get big beefy tones at 2am with a mic to record, and not wake the neighbors. My Weber Mass 100 on a Super would just suck tone, and could never sound that full at low volume.

[@gair1944]

Great post Matt. Thanks for watching and sharing your insight and experience. Maybe I should have used the vibrato channel with the bright cap. Good point. On the 64 Custom Hand wired Deluve Reverb, they route reverb and tremolo to the normal channel but without the bright cap. You are correct there are multiple ways to introduce a mod to engage or disengage the cap. All that said, the Tone King Imperial MKII has completely won me over and it is my main amp. After making this video, I installed a Fat Jimmy C1270 Speaker in the Tone King and that took it up even more. Here are my current OD pedals: Greer Lightspeed, Vemuram Shanks ODS-1, JHS Morning Glory V4 and Mad Professor Royal Blue. These stack in a variety of configurations and I can get any sound I want. They are all some of my favorite sounding OD pedals. I also have an Analogman King of Tone, but I am enjoying these other pedals more.

[@mattg082]

@@gair1944 nice, yeah similar pedals here. One thing I didn’t bring up I find, is it loves OD pedals at low volumes. But I do find now heavier distorted pedals and fuzz are too brittle for me on low volumes. When I get to 5 the bright cap diminishes and the fizz disappears. It has the attenuator which fixes this issue a great deal for recording and bedroom play. Live you may not even need attenuation or just one notch if mic up. But what do you think is a good way to overcome the bright cap sound at lower volumes with fuzz pedals? It’s not such an issue as I said at higher volume. But I find myself changing it all up from bedroom to practice. I think the bright cap serves a good purpose on clean at 3. Beautiful sound you don’t want to get rid of, and still plays well with overdrives. Just doesn’t like Fuzz or high gain unless on 5 and above. Many users have discussed this, but I have yet to hear of anyone going through with a mod or clip. So haven’t done that myself, and use the attenuation for now. Also I do like using a NOS GE 5751 in V1 at home sometimes. Gives me a bit more control and a cut down on the gain.

[@recklesstoboggan]

The Deluxe is humbuckers : The Imperial is wide-range humbuckers. Both amazing; different reasons.

[@gair1944]

Ha!! Nice analogy

[@toddgreen8492]

Hi Gary, Which amp would you say handles Humbuckers better. Thank you & Great videos!

[@gair1944]

The Tone King with an upgrade Speaker is incredible with Humbuckers. I replace the stock Tone King 33 Speaker (Made by Eminence) with a Fat Jimmy C1270. It is made by WGS (Warehouse Guitar Speakers)

[@goswo]

Thank you for a very helpfull demo. Im thinking about selling my Morgan PR12 and buy the 64. Not sure yet, if its a good decision 😀

[@gair1944]

Did you ever make a change from the Morgan PR12? I'd love to try one of those sometime. Are they pretty faithful to a blackface Princeton sound?

[@goswo]

@@gair1944 Its a really really great Amp. Huge sound in a smaller box. The change is, that I kept the Morgan and bought a Headsttong LilKing. Both amazing “princeton” amps 😀😀

[@shaneross6242]

Nice job Gary I'm considering a 64 can you tell me if it has an effects Loop

[@gair1944]

Sorry for such a late reply. No the 64 does not have an effects loop.

[@cliffdykes1171]

The tone king for sure

[@Kaibuechner]

Hey Gary! Thanks so much for the video, really appreciate it! I think both amps sound great! Although I'm still glad I picked the 64. I don't know if it's because I'm so used to the Fender sound, but somehow with the deluxe it always feels like I'm hearing the 'true' voice of the instrument. I don't get that with the TK. In terms of versatility of course the TK knocks it out of the park! Also a very nice tone, but I can always hear that Tone King voice in it, if you know what I mean? Great sound anyways, especially with the new tubes in the other video. How do both amps compare in terms of feeling, dynamics, responsiveness? If you could just keep one, which one would it be?

[@gair1944]

I changed all the Preamp tubes to RCA's after making both of these demoes. They arrived later in the afternoon. So I need to make another comparison. I expect the Fender 64 Deluxe Reverb is going to still have a brighter more classic Fender voice. The Deluxe is awesome and exceptional. It's not going anywhere. Ultimately, if I am playing at a place where I need more pure clean headroom the Toneking seems to hold together better. So its going to get plenty of gig time. But the deluxe will work great at most places I perform and some of its 'sag' is part of its charm and actually is less 'in your face' for my listeners. If I could only keep one, I'd be challenged because there are times when I need the Deluxe to stay 'fully' clean and just a little punchier. (A couple of my outdoor gigs at Vineyards where I am out in the wide open) I am playing one of them on Mothers Day this Sunday. I'm bringing the TK Imperial MKII for that show. Will keep you posted. You did great to buy a Fender 64 Deluxe Reverb Custom Hand-wired. It is a special amp and timeless classic. Email me anytime at [e-mail] anytime for more gear/guitar/amp music talk.

[@karlwanninger7675]

I know what you mean Kai, to me the TK destroys the real Sound of the guitar and gives the guitar a strange flavor. The Fender Deluxe is the pure sound, clean and brilliant. With the TK it's always a problem to place it in the mix, the sound is too broad and slimy and has no character.

[@gair1944]

@@karlwanninger7675 there is something rather lean and distinct with the Toneking Imperial. I can’t deny That. But I can play it at home and get Inspired to play. Yet I always go back to the Deluxe Reverb for the most pure classic voice.

[@karlwanninger7675]

@@gair1944 You are right, it's great fun to play the TK alone, to use the attenuator to play at home, it's inspiring. I recorded it several times and it is always the same, I cannot mix it together with the other voices, it always sounds wrong, it sticks out or drowns and I have to record the parts new with another amp.

[@Danksta02]

I’m not a gear purist so will preface with that. I liked the Tone King better. Of the 2 it’s a more practical amp for me and covers so much sonic ground.

[@gair1944]

Thanks for stopping by and sharing your preference. I agree the Tone King covers more bases. Both are great. If I could only have one, the TK Imperial MKII will be more versatile. Glad I don't have to choose! :-)

[@monstermax22]

For me, its the '64 Deluxe. To my ears, its sweeter, whereas the TK sounds a bit harsher. Ears are funny things. I'm looking for a lower powered amp for small gigs. My regular amp is a Two-Rock CRS, which is a weapon. Fortunately for me, my dealer has both of these. Neither would be a bad choice. Great video, great playing, thank you.

[@OliverGuitarforall]

Very relevant thank you

[@gair1944]

Thanks for stopping by. I hope it was helpful.

[@jamesoliphant4378]

I think the TK Is very bright and has a bit more breakup whilst clear compared to the 64. Subjective to each individual but fender for me. Thank you for taking the time to provide this comparrison

[@gair1944]

You're very welcome. All comments, preferences and opinions are appreciated and respected. I love both and I will say my Fender 64 Deluxe is not going anywhere! It is a lifetime keeper. The TK Imperial MKII for me actually has more of a punchy impact and maybe a little more clean headroom for breakup. I am going to gig with it this weekend at a couple different venues. One small indoor restaurant/bar and an outdoor Vineyard. Those shows should give me a good feel for it.

[@mattg082]

But he used the Fender 64 digs without bright cap, and the Imperiak MK2 doesn’t start to bypass that till 6.5 and above. On a clean setting it will sound a lot different in comparison. He should have used the reverb channel on the 64 for a more direct comparison with the highs and mids here. I played both and own the Tone King.

[@drneme]

Do you think its possible to get a SRV tone with this Tone King?

[@gair1944]

Yes I do but a lot of that tone is in your hands. The TK Imperial MKII serves a very classic blackface tone. You can get more sag using the attenuator and dialing the channel volume higher too.

[@dianeduffcroop8158]

I have a Tone King Imperial Mk1 that I added a celestion gold alnico speaker and Mercury mag o/t to and it's just the gravy of the Gods! Tone king Imperial's tend to be a little bass heavy so I roll the bass off to about 4 or 5 at most. And it just sounds wonderful. And this is no disrespect to that Deluxe Reverb because if I had the cash it would be sitting next to my Tone King! By the way I play in a fusionesq Trio and we play loud so no need for an attenuator!

[@gair1944]

That’s awesome about the Celestion gold Alnico! I’ve been loving the Fat Jimmy C1270 70w speaker in my TK Imperial MKII. It has a lot of power and seems louder and more capable than its 20w power rating.

[@daveandrew7014]

Hey Gary try running Celestion G12H30 Anniv on the TK.

[@gair1944]

I may give that a try. I do however love the voicing of the stock speaker

[@mkrj2576]

Wow. Great melodic soloing. Sounded beautiful. Thanks for the video. Both sound great but I'd take the TK. Like the tone a better and it's flexibility is a huge plus. I'm on the edge of getting a TK but can't decide on a head plus cab or combo. Paralysis by analysis. Maybe someone can help me decide.

[@PhilCastella-hs8wt]

I have the same Tone King , how is the reverb on yours? Mind is very low on 10 you have to hit a single note to know its on.

[@gair1944]

My reverb is the same. Very weak. That is the downside of this current version of the Imperial MKII. I have a Strymon Blue Sky V2 pedal and use its spring reverb setting. It is excellent. The reverb on the Toneking Imperial MKII is just ok

[@PhilCastella-hs8wt]

@@gair1944 Thank you very much for getting back. I'll have to get one.

[@sudkreuz7570]

The Tone King is so awesome, athough we are talking big ones, the TK honour is name.

[@gair1944]

Agreed! Thanks for listening and subscribing. Hope the channel adds value

[@beatbaker7420]

TK is more versatile but I still prefer the Deluxe for the sound... hmm tough choice I think I might end up with either just buying Princeton custom 64 or making a clone from some DIY kits... pls help with the decision! :D

[@Billywagner22]

Between the Imperial and DR, which has the most clean headroom?

[@gair1944]

Definitely the Imperial.

[@giulioluzzardi7632]

I would be happy with either..they both sound usable and easy cart about....but the Deluxe is the one. All small combos are based on Fender Princetones and Deluxes even the Brit made amps. Only VOX is a real "Original" apart from Fender.

[@gair1944]

Thanks for commenting. I agree. Both are excellent and very easy to cart to and from shows.

[@giulioluzzardi7632]

@@gair1944 Thanks, next question is ; how do I get a 230V version of either for freeee? I can dream can't I?

[@gair1944]

@@giulioluzzardi7632 nice dream my friend. Let me know when that ship comes in ok? Laughs

[@giulioluzzardi7632]

@@gair1944 I shall write a letter to Mr S Clause , N.Pole!

[@dsilva70]

Nice, thank you sir !

[@gair1944]

Thanks for stopping by and subscribing. Always helps the channel. I plan on improving my production value going forward. PS: The Tone King Imperial MKII is really something special and versatile. But the Deluxe is truly Classic. No dog in the race.

[@dsilva70]

@@gair1944Both sound fantastic. But fwiw I would go for the Deluxe because it’s the real deal, because of its legacy, the looks and I like the Fender tone. Have several tube amps myself (65 PRRI, 57 Custom Champ and recently got a Vibro Champ). The TK sounds also fantastic tho. You play great btw! 👍🏻 Greetings from Amsterdam 😎

[@gair1944]

@@dsilva70 Hey thanks for the nice compliment! Made my day. I wonder if a Vibro Champ might work well for some of my small resort gigs when I am playing electric guitar while people dine, talk and socialize. Hmmm. I used a Blues Jr last night and it worked out OK. Just thinking out loud. I prefer to not carry a bigger/heavier amp when I don't need to.

[@tz8559]

Imperial sound great!

[@gair1944]

The Imperial has become my go-to amp

[@jamesnelson1443]

Tone King is fantastic

[@gair1944]

I love it!!

[@shaneross6242]

Your loop sold me the 64

[@deanallen927]

A Deluxe is a Deluxe, can't beat 'em. I've tried only one I didn't like; a '78 that had a lot of undesirable CBSisms in it. The best one was a '71 silver face with a new Eminence Legend in it. But the Imperial just brings so much more to the table and seems to sound like a bigger amp.

[@stevelawrie9115]

Both extraordinary, premium amps. Personally, I like the sound, threw KZbin, of the Deluxe probably better. Horses for courses.

[@gair1944]

Thanks for watching. No dog in this race for sure

[@SuperBatiskaf]

ToneKing sounds more hight mid. But the Deluxe has more low mid with correct accent on high mid - I like it. Just my five cents - I like to put Vibrato channel (without bright cap) up to 7, it gives a nice warm sound, and push it with Duellist as a booster - Drive on 8 o'clock and Volume on 3 o'clock. Very natural and dynamic OD.

[@gair1944]

You are absolutely right about midrange difference between the Tone King and the Deluxe. I agree completely. I really want to try a duelist but I also have a King of tone in might pull off my other pedal board. I had not thought about using the vibrato on 7. This deluxe is the custom handwired version made in 2017 with Jensen C12Q speaker and it gets very organic breakup when pushed. What guitar are you using ? Single coils or humbuckers?

[@SuperBatiskaf]

@@gair1944 Telecaster AmPro with CShop Broadcaster pickups, I just rewired the Tone pot to bridge pickup only. I also installed C12Q on my DRRI, pretty similar sound. If you have KOT - you are fully complete, Duellist does not required. I just like his Signer sound - but if you have TS9 or whatever you don't need Duellist at all, put Tone on 11 o'clock on TS, Drive on minimum and Vol on 3. The Tone on TS has a bad high mid bump in position 1 o'clock or more, in about +6 db. But in position 11 and less the bump is gone, so together with amp's Treble you can adjust a very ariose sound, for my opinion.

[@gair1944]

@@SuperBatiskaf Thank you for a the great reply. I'll be those CShop Broadcaster Pickups made your AM Pro even better! I agree the KOT is probably all I need. I also use a Snouse Blackbox Overdrive 2. It is a really nice single OD pedal. More along the lines of the Marshall Bluesbreaker pedals like the KOT is based from.

[@WhiteHeat-yd6zm]

This case is open and shut, Tone King Imperial mrk ii all day.

[@gair1944]

@@WhiteHeat-yd6zm it is stellar. I agree

[@dianeduffcroop8158]

I'm three-quarters of the way through your video and I have to say that the Tone King is just walking away from that Deluxe Reverb. I think the Deluxe lacks the detail and sparkle and it sounds a bit boxy which could be the speaker. If you're looking for the ultimate in Fender tone I just don't think you can beat the Tone King because he nailed it from tweed tones to blackface. And very authentic at that. Spendy for sure that these days you get what you pay for.

[@beatbaker7420]

Jesus Christ is coming back really soon!

[@christianlacheze3323]

To my ears, TK warmer, more flattering, Deluxe more precise, cuts in more

[@yaniv-nos-tubes]

the deluxe with a vintage mullard i63 tube at v1 and a ge12ax7wa at v2 beats everything and will be more versatile than the tone king. the useless normal channel becomes a tone monster for single coils ,bright guitars and any drive while the vibrato channel becomes cleaner with lots of lows and crisp highs.

[@Funk11147]

I’ve been eyeing the imperial. Can it get a Clapton beano tone?

[@dustinarnold79]

Definitely I have a clapton strat that does exactly that the tone king is inspiring to play

[@rodolphep0nthus555]

​@@dustinarnold79the Beano sound is with a Les Paul.. Just saying

[@dustinarnold79]

You would be amazed at what the tbx tone boost can do

[@rodolphep0nthus555]

@@dustinarnold79 ok.. But that Beano album was recorded on a Les Paul and Marshall.. So it's a bit out of subject to say relate it to a Stratocaster and Fender amp. Of course you can find a sound approaching it .. But it doesn't really make sense to refer to the Beano album in this context

[@dustinarnold79]

@rodolphep0nthus555 lol ok Buddy so I'm assuming you have never played a clapton strat or a toneking imperial

[@kurtb3260]

The Deluxe has the scooped mids that Blackface amps are known for.

[@glencruciani]

Fender hands down! If you decide to sell it, let me know!

[@gair1944]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I love it too. Selling it is not likely. …As you can imagine. Lol

[@glencruciani]

@@gair1944 I'm trying to decide whether to buy this or the handwired Princeton.

[@gair1944]

@@glencruciani If you play clean at band volume more than pushing the amp to overdrive, Deluxe Reverb all the way. the 64 Princeton breaks up early. It can be loud and raucus, but the 64 Princeton Reverb doesn't have the fullness in terms of clean headroom or clear to edge of breakup at the same volume. The Deluxe breaks up when you push it or attack hard at '3' on the Volume. The amp sweet spot for me is just a hair over 3. It is clean and then barks when I attack more aggressively. I love that. Or I can play light and it stays pristine.

[@frankswildyear]

Tone King by a mile…sounds much richer and harmonically deeper

[@gair1944]

Yeah I get that too. Tone king is incredible

[@Sams911]

An American made Tone King all day long over a Mexico made Fender.

[@gair1944]

Is the handwired 64 custom deluxe reverb made in Mexico?

[@Sams911]

@@gair1944 sadly yes... as far as I know, there are no more "new" Fender Amps made in the USA anymore. which is lame for the prices they ask.

[@yaniv-nos-tubes]

a celestion alnico cream won't harm the deluxe either

[@Baci302]

The Tone King kills the hand-wired DR.

[@pabloperez4063]

As far as i have been reading here, most of the people prefer hhe tone king

[@beatbaker7420]

hmm, Fender if you ask me

[@awkipintee]

I dislike the term “shootout”, sounds like a gunfight. comparison would be a better word

[@gair1944]

Fair enough

[@j.dtruths5577]

fender hands down better ......

[@gair1944]

There's a reason the Fender Deluxe is a lifelong classic and is one of the most copied amps.