Shopkeeper Forgiveness Spelunky 2. How Forgiveness Works in Spelunky 2. Shopkeeper Forgiveness Guide

[@NekoKhris]

Well obviously, if a shopkeeper falls into the abyss you won't be charged with murder cause the shopkeeper never dies, just keeps on falling forever

[@utaushio5911]

Hahaha I never thought of it like that. That's pretty clever. Makes a lot of sense honestly XD

[@theidiotofentireexistence3170]

but he will starve ):

[@gman235]

​@@theidiotofentireexistence3170 That is his fault, he should have brought enough food for the infinite fall before falling

[@Hawkow_Ruby]

@William Michaels should have brought water smh

[@watermelon7117]

@@Hawkow_Ruby imagine not packing for an infinite fall 😒🙄

[@Insulted25]

Great video! Another unusual interaction I have found is: if you anger Yang and take his crossbow, Yang can grab any weapons in a shop without angering the shopkeeper. If you then take the weapon from Yang, it doesn't count as stealing since Yang took it not you.

[@utaushio5911]

Thanks for the input my friend! It's much appreciated. That's definitely exactly the kind of thing I was hoping people would share in the comments. Extremely interesting and unique interactions that could lead to some interesting gameplay and runs. I wasn't aware of that one. Very cool example!

[@pontux12latufa63]

Teleporting into the vault without taking anything counts as assault.

[@emilioslas7739]

Cause you telefrag the shopkeeper

[@menacing_name]

@@emilioslas7739 he probably means from the back entrance

[@purplenerdsplushie]

i mean it makes sense if you break into a bank but dont rob anything its still a crime

[@L34v3m3410n3]

@@purplenerdsplushie Except it doesn't make sense if they don't even see you, because you just teleported in there and they just instantly know.

[@TheUntamedNetwork]

@@L34v3m3410n3 they are telepathic creatures tho...

[@G_IA_M]

I don't know if someone already said this, but here's another interaction (Requires him to sell the ice gun): You freeze the shopkeeper and take every item in the store, as long as he doesn't go back to normal, he will be passive and therefore aggression is not detected. This can be useful in multiplayer, one freezes the shopkeeper while the others finishes the level

[@ichamsakkar4249]

_Shopkeeper logic_ You steal from his shop: *A N G E R* You successfully avoid his multiple attempts to murder you: kalm

[@aestheticcriminal680]

If you successfully avoid them consistently then they'd be wasting their resources and putting themselves at unnecessary risk of hazards by trying to fight you further, especially considering you have shown them that you don't have further intention of killing them. It's a far more sensible decision on their part than that of the Classic and HD shopkeepers.

[@axious9613]

@@aestheticcriminal680 in spelunky HD a tiki man lost a boomarang because i whipped it away, he then ran into a shop and stole another one let's just say i became quick hamburger

[@algs5483]

7:29 Worth saying that if a creature opens a present, you can pick the item for free! ( Tested with Magma Thingy )

[@carbonsiren]

I've tested it with a lizard, it works!

[@algs5483]

@@carbonsiren Awesome! Free Royal Jelly sometimes and maybe even Jettpack.

[@aperturescienceguy2737]

Also works by tripping caveman on a rock or something

[@marioisawesome8218]

12:50 the shopkeeper shot the bombbag, not the shield. the shield does not reflect if it is not being held by a creature.

[@threefour1598]

"You want forgiveness? Get religion" -Bully Maguire

[@utaushio5911]

Fantastic quote. Very relevant setting. Thank you

[@hieronymuswiesenkraut3628]

Mods for displaying kali or sin counter would be nice too

[@utaushio5911]

Honestly that would be fantastic. I'm not a modder myself but I would love it if somebody could make something like that

[@joshument]

@@utaushio5911 I've never made a mod, but I know how to code so I could give it a shot, it seems simple enough

[@gumbo64]

@@joshument That's the spirit!

[@sasquatch.8]

Yes

[@igottathirdleg]

@@joshument I believe in you!!

[@kanyenortheast3546]

I would like to add some stuff: I once shot a shotgun in volcana that detonated a bomb bag in a shop off screen I hadn’t seen yet and the shopkeeper didn’t get mad. He was dead, but wasn’t mad next level Ball and chain traps in volcana, if triggered by something other than the player, will not trigger shopkeeps even if their items or shops are destroyed

[@aperson7772]

Except spikes

[@NearoC]

Weird but not consistent, I've had the same scenario but then they were mad, odd. Ah, in reference to the shotgun, no evidence against the ball and chain, which honestly just sounds accurate enough.

[@qgdm6426]

I saw a video where you are allowed to lower ball traps onto shopkeepers for an untimely demise.

[@souporwormgaming]

"Murder can be accomplished in many ways by the player." I'm putting this on my wall.

[@samjager2400]

For your example, I believe that the shopkeeper got killed by the bomb bag explosion and not reflected bullets, I don't think that shields which are not held by any entity reflect bullets. Thanks for the good explanation on the mechanic!

[@utaushio5911]

Hey thanks for the feedback! I appreciate the engagement. I've had several people say the same thing about the bomb bag and upon further review I think that probably is what actually happened. Outcome was still the same though which is good! Although I do believe that shields on the ground will still reflect projectiles even if not being held. I'm glad you enjoyed the video and thanks for the support!

[@max903br3]

If you manage to get two pots from the demons in the lava levels you can break them in the shop and kill the shopkeeper without angering them

[@ARegularLemon]

I have something to add. You can lure an angry shopkeeper to a kali altar and rope him from the side of the altar to sacrifice him live. This does NOT add any more sin points so if you only have 2 you will receive no more as the sacrifice did not count as murder.

[@GayBrain]

That would basically mean you just teleported the shopkeeper elsewhere in the game

[@IgnacioNA]

I think another interaction is when you buy all the items, the seller will give you an offer on the next level

[@cheerymike6166]

i kept wondering why it seemed like the dice shopkeepers would suddenly get pissed at me

[@utaushio5911]

It's because they're impatient and impulsive and all it takes is rerolling a single die to send them into a rage-fueled blood frenzy. Those crazy sons of guns

[@Rocky-oq9cy]

I expected a 3 minute video and I got brought on an ADVENTURE. So much stuff I didn’t know existed at all.

[@forshovelry2705]

The video that everyone wanted, but what everyone needed. Wait... that’s not the saying! But it still fits, thanks for the helpful video!

[@utaushio5911]

Haha close enough! Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you enjoyed the video and I appreciate the engagement!

[@bestofthebeasts573]

If you sacrifice a shopkeeper while it is still alive, it does not count as murder.

[@dan_the_swag_man6937]

Good luck with that 👍

[@noatiendoboludos]

_cheery spelunky intro music_ PART 3: *MURDER*

[@utaushio5911]

Spelunky 2 murder is cheery and exciting I promise....... 🥲

[@dreamerofthorns]

Bible class when I was in school: 0:57

[@Clan_Universe]

Mans added captions, I’m subbing

[@vepply]

7:58 i've done this way too many times

[@utaushio5911]

Honestly it's pretty easy to do. Just gotta be extra careful

[@marcar9marcar972]

*Part 2* *Assault* I just really love this section card

[@aliced.3799]

Once again, I love these videos man! They’re very informative and in depth. Keep up the good work! 🖤🖤🖤

[@utaushio5911]

Your words are so kind! Thanks for checking out all the guides. I've seen your comments on all of them and I'm really appreciative of the continued support and engagement!

[@aliced.3799]

@@utaushio5911 Of course! I love supporting smaller creators! Especially ones who are obviously putting in work for their videos like you!

[@aliced.3799]

@@utaushio5911 (omg at the time of this comment you have 999 subscribers! Preemptive congrats on 1k subs!)

[@kristofferguzman6248]

Really good explanation, and really professional too, good job!

[@utaushio5911]

Thanks for the feedback! I've still got a lot of work ahead of me and much to learn but I'm having a great time and support from people like you is very motivating!

[@NeonColored]

Assaults shop keeper: +2 SP gets two levels done without incidents: -2 SP kills hamster to drain it's blood: +1000000 SP

[@alvoi4379]

If you use the freeze ray on a shopkeeper and then run away and exit the level before they get unfrozen, it does not count as assault

[@bengoodwin2141]

Picking up a horned lizard and dropping it in a shop will count as assault (or maybe it was throwing it.) Throwing a bear trap at a shopkeeper will also aggro them and allow them to attack you before dying

[@Sam-fq5hc]

This mechanic exists in both Spelunky Classic and Spelunky HD, it’s just a very obscure mechanic in those two games

[@KaleidoX2]

There's no forgiveness in those games. They stay perm aggroed

[@sonicgaming904]

Thanks for adding custom English captions!

[@nbclover7880]

It may have been a one-off, but one time a robot blew into a vault and the shopkeeper wasn’t mad about it

[@conmcg]

Glad someone finally made a video on this :)

[@nathanielburger2974]

Something useless but cool that I found is that an item will not count as stolen as long as it is not moved out of the shop or that room where you can do the challenge thing, so you can use teleporter, telepack, or axolotl to teleport into a nearby challenge place without aggroing the shopkeeper, but like I said it's kind of useless.

[@georgemiller6690]

Noice a full guide instead of a 2 minute guide

[@utaushio5911]

I do my best to be thorough while also being concise. I'm glad you enjoyed. thanks for watching!

[@EthanRavens]

Yo this is some thorough content! Nice job Steven 😉

[@utaushio5911]

Thanks my dude! Glad you enjoyed it ;D

[@ibraahimdureng7482]

Why does this guy only have 3k subs he deserves like 500k

[@50cents.18]

good vid this man knows what hes talking about

[@algs5483]

9:53 Note: as of 12/28/2020, dead shopkeepers by lava seems to not count as murder anymore.

[@utaushio5911]

I mean hey! I'll take it. One less thing to worry about XD

[@headmac5403]

There is a way to steal while directly attacking the shopkeep with out them getting angry extreme luck involved: a freeze ray doesn’t anger the shopkeep immediately so if he has one close to the exit you can steal from him without him getting angry only happened to me once lol

[@utaushio5911]

I had actually heard this theory as well and wanted to test it for the video. It appears to be very inconsistent because in the footage I show for the freeze ray I actually do drop the freeze ray and leave the shop before he ever unfreezes and yet he still gets mad. Some things still have super specific and yet unknown interactions and the jury is still out on this one. I appreciate the feedback though!

[@MothleyRS]

The shopkeeper didnt kill himself by reflecting bullets Shields dont reflect if they arent being held The shopkeeper killed himself by shooting the bomb bag

[@Nathidraws]

Shopkeeper at 99% forgiveness: shoots you

[@Adam_Carlson82]

The squids in tide pool don’t count against you but they only really do you good for madame if you set up a squid behind the guard the squid will ink the guard and he will shoot back into the laser where it will reflect and damage the guard making him drop his shotgun. Great for a free shotgun

[@joeypederson1097]

You are so underated tbh red ♥

[@ant961Handle]

Just wanted to mention that a boulder trap breaking into a vault and killing the shopkeeper doesn't anger shopkeepers, I've done that loads of time

[@periclescomoeddie5215]

Thanks again for another super useful video!

[@big..pablo.]

Great video! You made it very easy to understand

[@utaushio5911]

I'm glad you enjoyed the video. My videos aren't perfect but I'm learning more and getting better everyday. I hope to make my videos as informative and helpful as possible!

[@amnotmichael]

I have just discovered that UFOs can destroy the vault and damage/kill the shopkeeper without giving you sin points!

[@milli888]

12:50 Dormant metal shields not held by the player do not reflect projectiles, this also applies to wooden shields..

[@bobby-mccool]

I just got this game and its so unforgiving I can hardly get to dwellings 2, thank you for making a tutorial on the shopkeepers (although I wont be able to kill them or steal yet lol)

[@Asian_Caleb]

Forgiveness is a big brain strat man

[@utaushio5911]

Spelunky is a big brain kind of game

[@matthiasc.z8332]

I hate when the shopkeeper gets mad when I use the drill in volcana, there's literally nothing I can do

[@_arman_]

I mean... you could not unleash a drill through his shop.

[@Patrick_Bard]

Not exactly, you could bomb your way out down there. You will need between 8-12 bombs

[@spidasoi1731]

@@Patrick_Bard You can use even less bombs if you take advantage of using a dead coop ghost to blow up the gunpowder kegs

[@Patrick_Bard]

@@spidasoi1731 Oh yeah sure, I meant for single player. And even that way could be lower if you abuse of those spikeball traps. I wanted to give a rough idea

[@utaushio5911]

Oh I know. It's super frustrating. Like all these friendly folks have mentioned it is possible to bomb your way down yourself but if you don't have the resources then it's just a necessary evil. I also hate when the drill destroys a Kali altar and makes her angry with me. Big bummer

[@Ormu]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think I got away with stealing once, when I used a freeze gun in the shop and ran out to the exit which was right next to the shop before he unfroze and had a chance to yell 'Vandal!'

[@utaushio5911]

This is an interesting question I've been getting. I was aware of this theory before I made the video and wanted to test it out but all my results were inconsistent. I'm not 100% sure what the exact ruling is. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. If you look closely in the video, the footage I show actually shows me dropping the freeze ray and leaving the shop before he unfreezes but he still gets mad at me. The jury is out. I really appreciate the comment and the discussion though! Thanks for watching the video

[@Desticals_COBRAKAINEVERDIES]

Also, once he forgives you, since you already have committed a crime, next time you see him after he has forgave you, his prices on all items are increased. Say, a bomb box is always $10,000. But after commuting a crime and him forgiving you, it will be $16,000.

[@UnstableStrafe]

Something to note is that I heard that if you freeze a shopkeep, but leave the level before he unfreezes, he will not be angered, though i havent seen it tested myself.

[@utaushio5911]

I had heard that rumor as well and actually tested it out because I was curious. I didn't call specific attention to it but that is actually the footage shown in the video and it didn't seem to work for me. Even though I left before he unfroze he still got mad at me but that might be because I was still holding the freeze ray? Jury is out

[@dinghy841]

If you activate a dart trap that is gonna hurt a shopkeeper with a rock, vase or whatever you can throw for it to shoot the dart, it is going to trigger an assault charge, but if you do it with a rope it wont happen.

[@sysop073]

If damaging the shop, stealing, and cheating at dice all count as assault, then assault seems poorly named

[@gggggggg5917]

I feel like griefing, cheating and vandalism would all work better.

[@utaushio5911]

You're totally right. Those names are way more descript and accurate. Having 1 term to consolidate does help simplify things though. I think the real morale of the story is that there still aren't even enough ways to wrong the shopkeepers after the misery that they put us through!

[@iraidius3343]

I do agree but I think they did it this way to make it easier and simpler to code/understand.

[@xjsmightbedatnga]

There actually is another way to rob a shop without getting any sin if the shop or u have a freeze ray if a shop keeper is frozen and u go in the exit will not count atleast from what I've noticed its easier in co op but possible in solo just a bit harder cuz u need a freeze ray and a shop near exit But u have to get in the exit before he unfreezes

[@monkeyboi1837]

This was very flippen helpful

[@kuu-chishsoundcloudislife9581]

Badfurman was here.

[@utaushio5911]

noted

[@dallama2616]

9:40 im pretty sure it only counts on murder if they die on the same floor that you agro them. lets say youre on the jungle 1 level after aggroing a shopkeeper then he starting jumping around because youre in his radius. Even if he jumps into spikes it won't count as agro because it wasn't the same floor you stole from him

[@Patrick_Bard]

That's not how it happens to me. Had many times where trying to ignore those bastards to get forgiveness and they jump into lava (or spikes) and I have to clear more level to achieve it

[@sneeznoodle]

"Murder can be accomplished in many ways, much like assault" Hmmmmmm

[@utaushio5911]

I mean................ am I wrong? XD

[@liahmmessinger3753]

9:10 not the carnivorous plants. If one of them eat a shopkeep then the shopkeeps get angry at you. Unless if they fixed it.

[@samuraicupcake289]

So basically there's this big convoluted mechanic that rarely matters since most of the time you'll be forced to defend yourself against the shopkeeper defending the exit, to get passed him, most likely by dropping a bomb from above. You were just lucky. :/ I'd honestly be more interested in a video about some reliable tactics for getting past a guard "peacefully". _However_ , the trap trick is very useful! I just assumed doing that would anger them. I'll have to carry one around next time I'm in the jungle to get some free loot! 😁

[@magi1134]

someone's butthurt and can't get past shopkeepers guarding Depending on map layout, I purposely bomb any obstacles that make things cramped to escape peacefully. You can also aggro them and bait into environmental kills. Or just do a well timed jump and spam the leave button

[@lazersstuff53]

Yesterday a hired hand triggered one of the explosive robots in the magma layer blowing up a shopkeeper. Got to steal all the items, and didnt gain any sin!

[@ashes_blue]

I make shopkeepers jump into spikes all the time, it doesn’t count as additional murder. Pretty sure lava is the same, just don’t be the one to throw/knock them into it, let them do it themselves

[@sasquatch.8]

This is so useful thank you very much

[@solarflare4543]

Spelunky HD also has forgiveness, its just stupid hard to do cause those shopkeepers get angry at everything

[@AshArtzMusic]

If a flaming arrow makes a backpack explode, without the arrow hitting the shopkeep, it will not count as assault

[@sorrychangedmyusername3594]

I wonder how much sin points i will have by advocating the rwandan genocide

[@MncMarcos]

I don't know if this is fixed or not, but sometimes (very very rare), interacting with the shopkeeper's body, will add you an assault crime, for example, shooting at him, whipping him, throwing him to the spikes, etc, for some reason, sometimes, this will add a crime on your list, and some other times it won't, my guess is that it's just a bug.

[@vignette8206]

I drop pots of lava near the shop and the lava guy will kill them. Usually takes two. And I don’t get sin points for it

[@livingwater25]

ive been hearing that if you hurt a shopkeeper at all, it's not possible for forgiveness. So what's up here? Im assuming that since after killing a shopkeeper, no one thinks "oh hey maybe i should not kill a shopkeeper!" so the sin total just keeps adding up, But you never mentioned that so im really confused here. Anyways, thank you for this guide, your videos help out alot and I love them, keep it up!

[@utaushio5911]

I'm extremely glad that I'm able to help and that you're finding them useful. As for hearing that forgiveness isn't possible I'm not sure what that's about. You might be onto something with your idea that maybe people just assume they can't and so they don't even try to not hurt the shopkeepers. But I assure you that forgiveness is definitely real and honestly super useful! It's saved my butt in at least a couple runs!

[@TomatOgorodow]

No. Shopkeeper died from explosion. Unequipped shield doesn't deflect bullets.

[@shout5064]

I wanna say that forgiveness was a thing in Spelunky HD, just harder to obtain. Granted it had the same mechanics as Spelunky 2, but it was just more difficult. I got it only one time ever.

[@utaushio5911]

It wasn't exactly the same but you're right that it was definitely still there and it was fairly similar. I don't remember the rules off hand but it was definitely way harder and more specific to achieve. The forgiveness mechanic in Spelunky HD even differed from the forgiveness mechanic in Spelunky classic

[@bakrobertjohnston4889]

Buying out the shop should take down sin counter so it goes to - making things cheaper and sometimes letting you take things for free

[@A_Random_Guy_11]

I found this thing in spelunky hd that we think they cant forgive you. Wrong. If the shopkeeper dont see you and it's far to the exit of the level will stop trying to murder you at the exit

[@nonononoway505]

Thank you very much mr pistaccio

[@whyme3958]

12:44 it was the bomb bag

[@utaushio5911]

Yeah I've had a couple people suggest it was the explosion from the bomb bag. Honestly it's a bit tough to say. Either way the outcome is the same though. I appreciate you checking out the video and I appreciate the input!

[@yoshibeara3446]

rolling 12 twice in also counts as assault

[@Ashh1066]

kappa

[@cooltrains9564]

Thanks, I was wondering if forgiveness was random or not.

[@utaushio5911]

No problem! Glad you enjoyed the video and glad it was helpful

[@BulaienHate]

Weird Asterisk: If you freeze a shopkeeper with the freeze ray and steal his stuff and leave the level before he gets unfrozen it's like nothing ever happened. (as of the time of writing this). I accomplished this with a friend on multiplayer on PS4 where I froze the shopkeeper and grabbed all his items and my friend immediately left the stage. I haven't tried this solo.

[@utaushio5911]

Thanks a ton for the feedback! I really appreciate the community getting involved and starting discussion. I've heard a similar suggestion from a couple different people now but instead of leaving the whole level the theory is that it's still safe as long as you simply leave the shop before he unfreezes. I've tested that out and for me he still gets angry although I've heard people saying they've been successful. Jury is still out. Having somebody leave the whole level in multiplayer though is an entirely different story. Never been able to try that but it seems super interesting and definitely like it might work!

[@algs5483]

2:54 wow. That was scary.

[@FioFiorello]

can you make a guide like this for real life

[@kailou8385]

i accidentally hit 6 on my keyboard and it was great 10/10 would do again

[@alkmi2754]

Quite a bit of this is either wrong or outdated. Bear traps set by the player are murder. Spikes and lava do not count as murder.

[@MJtheVideo]

Another great video! @Utaushio You mentioned assault can only be counted once per level. Is it the same for shopkeepers? If I've already killed one, does it matter if I kill the rest?

[@Insulted25]

I don't believe so, you can only be charged with murder once per level.

[@utaushio5911]

I believe that multiple murders in a single floor will count against you. Assault will only count once against you per floor but I think on levels like the black market or where kill camps spawn, for example, you can rack up quite a large amount of sin from murder. So just be careful with murdering if you are hoping to be forgiven! Thanks for watching though and I really appreciate the question and comment!

[@LegoJJ]

Ummm what’s with the ghist at 6:24 ?

[@scotty3739]

ghists spawn from dead hh and graves in both jungle and volcana. you can see them if you're cursed.

[@denischen8196]

If completing Cosmic Ocean levels brings the sin point total to 0, will the message of feeling forgiven appear?

[@pairot01]

It will, I suspect that was a big part of how they figured the exact mechanics out.

[@utaushio5911]

I can honestly say that I am not skilled enough to have completed all floors of the cosmic ocean to know for sure but I would imagine that the message still appears. great question

[@noahgoldberg7387]

What about the one where I teleport to a trapped shopkeeper in order to free him?

[@sirclyan5346]

So Trapps murdering Shopkeeper counts not But Lava and Spikes does?

[@milescoe7044]

What about the shopkeepers in the mothership?

[@utaushio5911]

If you're referring to the proto shopkeepers those are just generic enemies like any other creature that happen to look like shopkeepers due to Spelunky lore. They are unaffected by any real shopkeeper nonsense.

[@grantftb]

very nice video good job

[@utaushio5911]

Thanks for the compliment. I'm very glad you enjoyed the video!

[@crazymariocrew]

if you jump on a angry shop keepers head does it count as assalt?

[@Gabe-wk6zi]

Nice vid

[@orionng195]

I think that outposts can't spawn in the Sunken City either

[@utaushio5911]

I have never personally seen one in the Sunken City but I have heard of people in the community finding them there. That would be a big bummer to make it that far only to have your run busted by some angry old dudes! I appreciate the input and thanks for checking out the video!

[@TheUntamedNetwork]

bear traps in the jungle DO give aggro, in current patch at least :'(

[@Enavoid]

Yeah, it was patched recently, maybe after this video.

[@PeterSvP]

Lava and Spikes don't add sin.

[@annatavaszi3838]

I might forgive you... after three levels that is

[@utaushio5911]

Honestly that's quality humor. I legitimately laughed reading this. Thanks for watching!

[@angrypicture6155]

Interesting, thanks