Shopsmith Bandsaw Insert Issues Resolved?

[@MrMarkpeggy]

I have been using this feature on crimper/stripper pliers since the early 70s. Thanks for bringing attention to this very useful tool Scott. 👍❤️😊

[@MyGrowthRings]

I remember my dad showing me that feature when I was a kid. It is surprising how many common tools we have in our hands, but don’t thoroughly appreciate.

[@sandysmeltzer2975]

I picked up a second cast iron table bandsaw a while back that was missing the insert. I was able to find some for a Delta bandsaw that were the correct diameter but too thick to sit flush. I found the center, drilled a hole, put a bolt through the hole and secured it with a nut. Then I used my SS lathe to shave down the thickness enough to fit my bandsaw. Some quick work on the scroll saw created the slot and center oval to make a very acceptable insert. since then I have found a guy on line who makes inserts on a 3D printer, so I have lots of backups. I sold the extra bandsaw with an extra Mark V. The result was that I was able to upgrade the table system to a 510, acquire a strip sander, and come away with no money invested at the end of the deal. Thanks for another great video. Blessings, Glen

[@MyGrowthRings]

That sounds like a lot of work, Glen. I have a couple of the aftermarket inserts to test and my son 3D printed another for me as well. Seems like the logical choice these days. Scott

[@sandysmeltzer2975]

@@MyGrowthRings Yeah, well, I'm an old dude with nothing but time on my hands. I learned from my dad, who lived through the Depression, that anything could be repaired or improved with what was available. I am learning to scour the internet a bit more, but I have a ways to go. Blessings, Glen

[@kevinr1704]

I need to get a fence for mine. Unfortunately, when I bought my setup, it didn't have one. Thanks for sharing this tip!

[@bradwiebelhaus7065]

Good idea, Scott.

[@F4Phantom5657]

I am sure I am not the only one who has a cast iron table top and would love to know more. Also, I have inherited several of those crimping tools and never knew how to use them to cut threads. Thank you again. 😂🎉❤

[@mikeking7470]

Technically they cut screws and reform threads, you can't take a piece of 6 gauge steel wire and force it into the die.

[@MyGrowthRings]

@@mikeking7470 You are correct, they are not dies in the true sense of the word.

[@MyGrowthRings]

I will begin prepping for that discussion. Thanks for confirming the interest. Scott

[@markb8954]

Great info Scott. I picked up that little bolt sizing & cutting tip a few months back fro a KZbinr that covers all things electrical. Now i need to go adjust those little screws on my bandsaw. I never thought to back them up to bring that guard flush with the table. 👍😀

[@jamespierson4324]

Another informative video, a good solution for a lost or short screw. I never really noticed the thread jig on those types of pliers. Thanks.

[@rschafer8684]

Your videos always are informative and remind me of important information I should remember. Thanks Scott for another

[@MyGrowthRings]

Thanks.

[@larryvergon6740]

My first thought, especially after you said the holes were drilled thru, was to tap the holes thru the table and then just use longer screws. This really isn't on the subject of this video, but I thought I might explain the "numbering system" for small screws in case someone wants more information. I have tried through many sources to find out how this number system was devised, but no luck yet. I worked most of my career as an electro-mechanical draftsman/designer/engineer in the defense industry working with electronic systems, and used numbered machine screws almost exclusively in the design of the electronic equipment. Numbered machine screw sizes I generally used are No, 4 thru No. 10, but there are also No. 0, 2, 12, and 14. The dimensions of the screws are not any 'common sizes although some are close to a fractional size, but not exactly. I learned a formula many years ago to calculate the nominal diameter: The No. of the screw (I'll use 6 since that's what was in this video) is multiplied by .013 and then that result is added to .060 (6 X .013 = .078) + .060 = .138. .138 is the nominal major diameter of a No. 6 screw. No. 0 = .060, No. 2 = .086, No. 4 = .112, No. 8 = .164, No. 10 = .190, No. 12 = .216. No. 14 = .242. After years of using these sizes, I have most of ;them memorized and don't have to use the calculation very often. There are also miniature screw sizes (glasses, watches, clocks) like 00, 000, 0000. All these screw sizes can be found in Machinery's Handbook and other charts are available online. With the sizes in your head, you can use the 'calibrated eyeball' and a scale with 1/32 or 1/64 graduations to size a screw. A No. 4 is just under 1/8. a No, 6 is over 1/8, but less than 5/32, a No. 8 is just over 5/32, a No. 10 is virtually 3/16 (hence the 3/16 screw size referred to by many old timers. although I'm pretty sure there is no current standard for a 3/16 screw. There may have been a 3/16 size back in the "stove bolt" era. Note: the same No. system and sizes apply to wood screws and sheet metal screws. Anyway, I thought this information might be interesting a useful.

[@MyGrowthRings]

Awesome info and that’s something I share as a training at the hardware wholesale distributor. I also haven’t found the origin but have enjoyed the search. Add head styles, drive types and Metric to USS & SAE and you can really have a fun class! Thanks for chiming in, Larry. Scott

[@samspade2519]

Good info scott. Most people dont know of the cutter on crimp plyers.

[@MyGrowthRings]

I wasn’t sure if I needed to share that or not, but even those of us who have known this for years had to learn about it from someone.

[@stased7343]

Scott, another great video! Thanks for addressing this question!

[@MyGrowthRings]

I appreciate that, and you are welcome. Scott

[@stewwolfe1]

I’ve got the cast iron table and used some blue painters tape to level my insert. It works well, and it’s been on the bottom of the insert for years.

[@MyGrowthRings]

That is exactly the way I used to do it with mine.

[@timbo389]

For those wanting to purchase an insert for your cast iron table, Amazon sells a plastic version that works well.

[@MyGrowthRings]

I have a couple different versions of the plastic inserts that are sold on Amazon and eBay and they vary greatly in quality, fit and finish.. I’ll make sure to cover that in a future video. Scott

[@bradhillig9844]

On a 6-32 screw, I would use purple loctite, blue requires high torque to remove without using heat.

[@jamespowell7196]

Great tip about using the crimping tool to cut off long screws! THANKS! Also is the "older" Aluminum table slightly different thickness than the newer versions? I found an insert in a box of auction items which does not fit into the new table I recently purchased. The area of the insert seems thicker....Thanks jim

[@MyGrowthRings]

That may very well be. I’ll check.

[@OpossumPiper]

Are those the Carter guides?

[@thebeggarswoodshop8756]

Thanks Scott, all four of mine were missing. And by sure chance my dad gave me the crimping tool years ago. The big questions however are whats being built outside and what moron?

[@MyGrowthRings]

Our neighbor is having a building built to house their his & her Corvette collection. And I’m the maroon for all my malapropisms.

[@OpossumPiper]

I'd definitely love to hear more about the cast iron table insert. I'm 1000% scared I'm going to lose or otherwise damage mine and not be able to easily replace it, LOL.

[@michaelarighi5268]

They're still available from Shopsmith. I bought a new one ~18 months ago, as the bandsaw that came with my used Model 510 was missing its insert. However, I've had some difficulty getting it to fit right. I seem to need to compress it across the gap to get it sized right, then have to get the little protruding "tongue" in exactly the right place. I don't THINK I'm doing anything wrong in trying to insert it, but it seems a little different from the "stock" one on the bandsaw I bought about 1983-4 (also cast iron table).

[@jvmiller1995]

I have never seen those plyers used to cut screws but it makes sense with the long screws that Lighting fixtures often have. The other way I have will work on any size bolt or screw. You can put on a nut and hold the head with vise grips and grind it away on the disk sander, or a cut off wheel or hack saw. Then remove the nut. But that was much faster.

[@ronallman6055]

I have the aluminum table and never knew that. Thanks for your continued insights and tips. That's why I am a subscriber.👍

[@MyGrowthRings]

It’s good to have you here and thank you for chiming in. Scott

[@AlienLeader4]

Nice video. I do have the cast iron table. I purchased some 3d printed inserts that work perfect. Keep up the awesome work. 👽

[@danasmith8950]

Guess I’ll have to put away my hacksaw and cut my screws the easy way. Dang!

[@MyGrowthRings]

Or keep doing it whatever way works for you. There are very few rules to screw cutting!

[@gshreading]

Another great one. One question, a little off the topic. I noticed the Carter ball bearing guides and remember a couple years ago the video you did on them. Now, after a couple of years do like them? Would you recommend the upgrade? Thanks for your continuing support to our hobby.

[@MyGrowthRings]

I like them very much, and they have performed flawlessly. I never had a major problem with the original blocks, or even with cool blocks, but if you pull your hair out using those, I highly recommend the upgrade. Scott

[@jamespowell7196]

@@MyGrowthRings Along that same line of prior bandsaw videos...how did the urethane replacement tires work? jim

[@MyGrowthRings]

@@jamespowell7196 Both versions continue to chug long with no issues.

[@chadwilson673]

Hi Scott I see the Carter bushings in the video. I just watch your video on them this week. After using them for a while what’s your thoughts? Should I up grade?

[@MyGrowthRings]

I like them, and they work flawlessly. If the traditional blocks bother you I’d say get them, with no reservations.

[@sassafrasvalley1939]

Scott, I used my wire strippers for years and paid no attention to the screw sizes written on them. Then one day, I was hanging a ceiling fan and needed to know the size of a screw that was too short. As I stood at the odds and ends screw bin holding the stripper and the short screw, I noticed the sizes and that the holes were threaded. Voilà it clicked! I’ve used that handy tool countless times since then. It sure beats cutting them with a pair of diagonal cutters and cleaning up the threads with a nut that you don’t have handy!!! PS: Don’t you find it clever that (unlike the table saw insert) the bandsaw insert is placed so that it requires no adjustment when the table is tilted?

[@MyGrowthRings]

That’s too funny! Yes, I do appreciate that about the bandsaw.

[@GregulatorOG]

Some wire cutters do the same thing.

[@toddericson2064]

If you are going to cut the screws with those pliers put the screw in the treaded side first when you cut the screw when you take it out it repairs the threads and you won’t lose it

[@andymilligan8485]

I have the cast iron table and have never had a problem. But my question is since those "bolts" are in a through hole, wouldn't it be easier to just run a 6-32 tap to cut the threads all of the way through or at least deeper?

[@MyGrowthRings]

I wouldn’t say that that’s any easier than cutting the machine screws, but that’s certainly another option. The thought that ran through my mind was, there might be a reason why the engineers at Shopsmith chose to use a flat bottom tap. I really need to give that some more thought and take a look to see if a bolt protruding through the holes would cause any issues in any of the four locations. Scott

[@edmalin7359]

Never realized those holes in the strippers were for cutting threads. I've been using them to cut wire all this time. And who decided to put Blue ThreadLock in a red tube? That's gonna cause me some frustration eventually.

[@dwightl5863]

Totally agree with you. Seems that coloring the lower half of the trademark red tube would be a great feature for Locktite to adopt.

[@MyGrowthRings]

@@dwightl5863 @edmalin7359 it is perplexing.

[@williamrogers2030]

Perhaps worry about vibration moving the screw down. But then what about vibration moving the screw up?

[@MyGrowthRings]

Good point. I suppose the downward pressure of the two springs might prevent that.

[@kylereed3577]

Anyone have success repairing the threads? I have no idea how it could happen but one of mine are stripped, the insert is bent over the top of it too. I’m going to order a helicoil kit to give it a try but I’m not sure I’m going to have enough material surrounding the hole to facilitate it. Thanks for another great video. PS, just had the idea of tapping the hole all the way through and those longer screws would be ideal.

[@MyGrowthRings]

That’s the way I would deal with it. There seems to be enough meat left to do that, and especially if you added a dab of thread lock to it, you’d be golden. Scott

[@kylereed3577]

@@MyGrowthRings thanks Scott

[@WilsonPhotography1]

If I understood you correctly, the hole is a through hole. Just tap it on through, then you don’t have to worry about the length being too long.

[@MyGrowthRings]

That’s another option. I don’t find that any easier than trimming the machine screws to length, but some might. Either way, you still have to add longer bolts and Loctite.

[@daleclementson8761]

The biggest problem i see people having on the cast iron table insert is they've either lost it or have it inserted upside down.

[@williamrogers2030]

If the hole is all the way through why not tap the hole all the way instead of cutting a screw?

[@MyGrowthRings]

That’s a good question, and one I considered including in the video, but why did SS leave it tapped short? Perhaps there’s a reason why you wouldn’t want it through tapped. Scott

[@mikeking7470]

@@MyGrowthRings and tapping a blind hole with an end tap is many more times likely to break a tap rather than using a through hole tap all the way through. Especially if doing it under power.

[@daleclementson8761]

How many pet have a 6-32 tap laying around.

[@sassafrasvalley1939]

@@daleclementson8761they came standard in my cheap old Craftsman Tap & Die set.

[@MyGrowthRings]

@@daleclementson8761 Shouldn’t the answer to that be “Everyone”? :)

[@philipallard8026]

Since the table is aluminum it would seem simple enough to use a 6/32 tap to take the threads deeper as an alternative. Aluminum is easy to tap. So is cast iron too but just saying.

[@MyGrowthRings]

Correct. My concern was the question about why didn’t SS do that themselves? Was there a reason that is escaping me? I need to investigate that, but just haven’t taken the time. Scott

[@brianshire8351]

Why not just tap the rest of the hole out so that the threads run all the way through.

[@MyGrowthRings]

I discussed that. It’s an option that is roughly equal in effort, in my opinion.

[@alberttreado3713]

🎉

[@alberttreado3713]

I really don’t know how to cheap shot that.