Short Barrels - .40 S&W VS .357 Magnum - Underwood Ammo

[@GunSam]

Filmed March 7th 2024

[@anonymousf454]

Gun Sam, any plans to do an updated "top 10 favorite rounds"? Or a "What we've learned from all the testing so far"? I would love to hear your compiled thoughts on all things cartridge related. Love your channel Sir👊

[@tigerman3]

I really like that you have been comparing these two calibers lately. Ironic that law enforcement has forgotten the lessons of the past and still buys into Jack's Magic Beans.

[@PassivePortfolios]

For LEO agencies, it's all about cost and getting their recruits and officers qualified annually. That's why they switched to 9 mm.

[@tigerman3]

​@@PassivePortfolios understood. However, shooting for the minimums for the "bottom line" is hardly justified when they rely on high capacity, poor marksmanship and weapons training. Failure to learn from history means you're doomed for failure. That was my point.

[@josephpepper3087]

When I carry a .357 it's a steel 3". I like a hot .38 +p 158 gr LHP or a moderate 180 gr .357 load. For auto's I've been carrying .40's with 165 gr HST. Good test. Don't ruin your hand.

[@PassivePortfolios]

Both of these are excellent for defense. The only problem is that they lose a lot of velocity from the short barrels, resulting in excessive blast. This can be a problem for some people. The 40 S&W and 357 mag. are better suited for 4"+ barrels to better use their powder capacity and attain higher velocity.

[@williamwatson4625]

Even from a 3" barrel revolver, you'd get a vastly superior velocity over the 2" barrel version. Trouble is, it'll still be painful to shoot out of a relatively light 3"-barrel revolver like the SP 101 or the Model 60.

[@PassivePortfolios]

@@williamwatson4625 SP 101 is a little heavier than the J-frame but I'd want the 4.25" barrel if I had to use 357 mag ammo.

[@hillbillyscholar8126]

YES! Another Gum Sam feature! 😊

[@lanedexter6303]

Good demonstration, Sam! Reminds us that, even in a snub, 357 has more punch than 38+P. But it is a handful in a tiny gun. We have an old 2-1/4” Taurus 605, and it’s a lot to hang onto with full magnums. Now to find some of that Underwood.🙄

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Remember that 125gr Buffalo Bore Sam shot from the 605? 1479 fps!

[@lanedexter6303]

@@exothermal.sprocket That’s warm!

[@sstritmatter2158]

Nice video - I have a .357 Mag S&W Model 60 1 7/8" barrel I bought back in 1996. Great gun, but "snappy" with .357 loads. I lost the cylinder release and happened to go to S&W plant in Springfield Massachusetts where they replaced it for free (excellent customer service). They did say this model wasn't designed to shoot a heavy diet of .357 but if I do to ensure the screws are tightened after a day at the range. Haven't had any issues with it and I have fired hard cast 180 gr Buffalo Bore through it and actually handled it fine surprisingly. Even with stock rubber grips it isn't "painful" to shoot, just heavy recoil as you know. I used to carry it as my woods gun/backup hunter and against black bear while hiking but decided to eventually go with a .44 Mag Ruger Redhawk. The 5.5" Redhawk is heavier and bulkier, but wanted higher power if facing an aggressive large black bear. I've still got my S&W revolver, don't want to part with it.

[@DanTheWolfman]

I do a lot of vids shooting SubCompact .40 in drills people may want to watch . .357 in 3" too. But only snub loads in .357 are mid recoil 125 golden saber or Critical Duty based on what Sam has said felt recoil in his 605...and honestly most shooters probably better w .38plus p

[@AWareWolf9]

Thanks for the video Sam! That .40 is no joke, good hot stuff. I’m in the camp of “frontal area does make (somewhat of) a difference.”I think the .40 is gonna be vastly more controllable like you were saying, and the combination of those factors just says to me that as far as self-defense effectiveness for the average/pretty decent shooter, that .40 is gonna be what they should go with and what my choice would be as well.

[@brianmoore1164]

The 357 never fails to impress. Just a fantastic cartridge with fantastic versatility. As far as shots with and without denim, I appreciate your work. I live in the deep south. If I ever need my ammo for a two legged predator situation it will never face more than a single layer of T-shirt.

[@charlesphillips5906]

Thanks for the short barrels!

[@Fudmottin]

Yep! The only Nosler tips I have are 200gr 44s. Same style as what you shot in 357. If you can find any 357s loaded with the Sierra Game King 125gr, that would be a cool test. The jacket goes all the way up and they have a good sized hollow point cavity. I'm sure they would do quite nicely in the 1050-1150 range. That is of course above 38Spl+P but below max 357 Magnum loading. With the right speed powder, I think that would be a great snub load. My limit with my M&P340 is 125gr @ 1250fps which is the typical velocity of a 125gr loading. No one seems to want to download that a tad for the snub carry crowd. It may seem like a fair question to ask why anyone would carry a lightweight five shot revolver. My answer to that is the odds of needing anything are very low. The odds of it being enough are pretty good. So I go for comfortable carry. I'm just not a tactical wannabe who feels the need for 15+ rounds in the gun plus two spare mag pouches. As for my ideal "truck gun", it would be an SBR with full auto in 5.56 NATO (M193 or M855 will do). That's a road rager's nightmare right there. Damn the NFA!

[@kevinrichardson8859]

Not a "tactical wannabe" because you don't carry extra mags??? You must haven't ever seen a real muzzle flash or blast coming your way!!!!! Get into some 💩 one day...and your whole attitude will change about that "tactical wannabe" comment...these thugs out here carrying mini dracos 7.62s and AR pistols with 20 & 30 round mags with zero conscious.....🤷‍♂️ then you have the other REAL crazies just shooting up "gun free zones " at random

[@frankhinkle5772]

Thanks, good test. Thanks for taking those hits for us shooting the .357 Magnum through your light 2" revolver.

[@garysarratt1]

I’m sorry you have RA, Sam. I have OA in my hands and feet. I appreciate knowing a gun tuber can give informed opinions regarding how various loads’ recoil affects the process.

[@adamannala5498]

I think the combination of having to fire in double action in a defensive situation and the narly recoil of the .357 might make the .40 a better choice. The double tap group with the .40 was on the money and the .357 not so much. I would have produced similar results. Effective hits on target trump superior ballistics that don’t hit your intended target. Another good Gun Sam comparison on the books.

[@thomastune776]

Love the comparisons and variety of short barrel guns. Thanks.

[@CreasyEQ]

Always a joy to see .357 Magnum in action❗ Atleast, till you get used to the power and barrel length. After 👀 this video I can't wait to go to the range with my 605. To squeeze 📴 a few underwood ammo I have 😊

[@RimfireAddicted70]

Great video with useful information. This channel is the go to channel for real world guns carried by people and ammo selections that people are considering. Keep up the great work!

[@callmesceptical9114]

Great content as always 👍 357 warrants at least 30oz of steel and 3” barrel. For anything less, run .38 spl …just an opinion. ✌️

[@CHEECHMUN]

That left block is really clear!!! You took out his eye.

[@carlosmorris4510]

Wow - yeah, that's definitely at least a 4" barrel Magnum load! 😆... Btw, I just picked up a crazy .44 Magnum load a few days ago: a 300 gr XTP from Hornady (!). Hollow points - but with the weight of a bear load... And I thought the 240 gr XTP's were already insane; a collector's item, I think! 😄

[@CarolinaRimfire]

That's the 357 loading I keep in my Ruger Security Six when I'm out hiking. I bet it hurts out of a snubbie. I wouldn't want to shoot it either 😂

[@ironmikehallowween]

The 40 does it’s job. The 357 does more than it’s job. Thanks for the video

[@ratagris21]

Nice testing and shooting Sam! Thanks for testing rounds Sam.

[@FiveSlow]

A Military instructor i saw awhile back made an interesting point, take 9mm, 40, 45, 357sig, and 357 mag, take the bullets out of the gel and can most people look at the tracks and tell 100% which caliber made which track

[@PassivePortfolios]

That is a good point.

[@nothim7321]

Yes, you can, not that it matters. Gel is not flesh, and you can definitely tell the difference in flesh.

[@GunSam]

And I addressed that point in a video I did recently, that I have not released yet. My response is that comparing wound holes and saying like, 9mm is the same as .45 ACP from an autopsy....is dumb. Has nothing to do with the fact that a lot of larger diameter or higher energy cartridges have proven themselves to be more effective fight stoppers. I cannot scientifically prove why the holes and damage is similar with different calibers, other than to say a bullet wound compared to a human body is tiny, they are going to all look alike. But the data collected showing certain cartridges to be much better fight stoppers, is real data. Energy dump and temporary stretching of flesh that isn't permanent to be seen, is going to be overlooked by the guys being like "look, hole look same..." It feels like shallow (no pun intended) arguments to be like "hole, same hole, see...same"

[@FiveSlow]

@@GunSam I have no opinion one way or the other, because I’m not an expert, the last 2 shots in the gel just reminded of the guy I referenced. I carry the handguns im the most proficient with, 2 .40 and 2 9mm in my rotation

[@64samsky]

​@FiveSlow I carry a 357Sig Glock 32c. Sometimes, I carry a J Frame 32H&R Magnum for backup.

[@arnoldcohen1250]

Great video with many great lessons. Even an expert, experienced shooter such as yourself is affected by punishing recoil. It effects not just follow up shots but even the first because of anticipating the recoil. This once again makes the argument that each shooter must balance velocity, energy, reliability in the chosen gun, accuracy, controllability and relative comfort in shooting. This not even including the need to practice with the gun and load of choice at ranges the shooter feels appropriate. Lastly, as you have repeatedly shown, terminal ballistic performance overlaps with many loads of remarkably varying energy and velocity.

[@duaneridings6591]

great video Sam

[@traumajock]

I've been feeling the burn to get a G3C in 40. I only have full size, 4 and 4.7 inch. I'd probably run 155 or 165 grain through it. I do have one box of 135 grain Corbon.

[@JeffreyCotle]

Awsome gun Sam. 2 very good rounds. God bless😊

[@bobcatforever3485]

GS. Good video. Nice shooting. I have a lightweight Charter Arms .357 and even with normal ammo 5-rounds is enough. Take care.

[@livincincy4498]

The method of shooting your “best case” vs “real world” scenarios has a lot valuable information vs a gelatin only shot. If you look at the torso of a skeleton we can see a frontal shot has a 50:50 chance of hitting a bone. For those of you that have studied an image of yours and found it not to be 50:50 that is great. This is just a best case of 50:50… So we see the effect of multiple hits to a “ rapscallion “ facing us.

[@michaelrocole7174]

Same gun compare 38+p against 158 grain 357 and add in the 125 Grain 357 Mag and maybe Underwood 357 Mag Defender use shot timer for comparison of controllability and accuracy. I hope you do this.

[@robcommorat2084]

Great content, how about 40 vs 357sig in short barrel testing

[@BR549-2]

Great video. I shoot 158gr through my 2.5" k frame and they're stout, but shootable. Any smaller I'd say no thanks.

[@carloparisi9945]

Hi Sam, I'd really like to see what that .357 load can do in a 6" full size revolver

[@keythsmith7924]

Cool two of my carry tools, great video

[@Moses1973]

Sam don't you have arthritis in your hands? Seems like several years ago you mentioned that. Even with good hands that 357 gotta hurt. I saw the last shot on the bad guy it looked like the pistol tried to twist out of your hand.

[@GunSam]

I have rheumatoid arthritis, so while it is not the same as hand arthritis, there is joint damage to some degree.

[@Tman2.0]

Mag drop, my 40cal G2c does the same thing. I also have a 9mm, G3c and it has never had the mag drop problem so far anyway , knock on somthin .. thanks for the Vid

[@DinoNucci]

Oh yeah

[@traumajock]

wouldn't it be cool if someone offered a 357 Sig barrel for the Taurus G-series?

[@mr.2d749]

Another great video

[@garyryujin9725]

Does the g2 c have a 357 sig conversation available

[@JeffreyCotle]

Gun Sam its really hard to do better than a 357 mag. The 40 did good too. But a revolver will almost always work through the complete rounds in the cylinder. Im a revolver guy. 😊

[@johnlacasse8893]

Love both of these rounds... 357 is still king, but 40 is plenty solid for defense.

[@cousinvinnie2180]

Great presentation! As always!

[@ElainesDomain]

The .40 was a bit disappointing. I wonder if it's the projectile. My wifey is a big fan of 158r .357. Thanks for the test. I'll stick to Federal Punch for the .40 for now. Take care Mr. Sam.

[@guardianminifarm8005]

357 for the win here. A bit disappointed in the 40 in denim.

[@guardianminifarm8005]

@@kennethferguson4283 Definitely can't argue with you here. I typically carry 165s in 4.25" & 3.5". I have carried 155s in the past. My daughter carries 155 Gold Dot in her 3.6" M&P.

[@user-ch9rz3ov9e]

125 g critical defense is fine in my 340 M&P. 158 g jacketed hollow points( slightly hotter than the underwood) is very stout.

[@sparky_-mf2cs]

Its not something i wana do but im guna do it anyways - story of my life 😂

[@stevecooper7037]

How about putting your .357 mag up against a 10mm. I think that's a better match! I really enjoy your Mozambique drill.

[@Brykk]

I still crack up every time someone tells me how light their 357 is and then complain how much recoil it has. I carry an lcr because i too like the super light weight. Im a bigger guy and have trained a lot with 357, so the recoil is definitely stout, but i have acclimated myself to it so i can still be effective with it.

[@chrismagnum06]

I carry the 3" KC and mostly shoot my 4.25" KC Target at the range.shot 9mm for almost a year due to magnums hard to find locally.well found some hornady black 357 at my sporting goods and grabbed a few boxes.decided to fire some this pat Sunday through my 3" for first time and man it has some kick.i hit the paper but not where I wanted them.my 4" I. Very accurate with magnums but the 3".....contemplating on carrying 38 +p in that one exclusively and continue to carry the 4" with magnums.also the flash was very distracting but I loved it!lol.before I downgrade to 38+p I want another crack at the 3" this Saturday and being ready for it.watching Sam being very accurate with his snubbies is amazing to me because i could barely hit the paper at 20 feet with a 2" with 38s and I don't have the cohonas(?) To try magnums in it. Team Magnum!!!...just with a 4" and up.

[@Brykk]

@@chrismagnum06 imo, a snubbie really depends on the grips. The stock short grip on the lcr is miserable with 357. I put on a set of full size diamond grip pachmayrs and i can shoot it just fine with full powers.

[@danbelden7354]

I understand the 1/4” mfd, but why do you use 4 layers of denim. I’ve never known anyone to wear four pairs of jeans.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Evidently it's one rimmed cartridge that Underwood hasn't severely underrated. Probably performed better in this test than an XTP would.

[@garysarratt1]

Your slowest .40, the 994, had about 10 inches of flame come out behind it.

[@3Pillers]

👍

[@lookythat2]

I think you just psyched yourself out with that .357 load. Of course I don't know how bad your RA is, and that's a big factor. But still, "anticipation is greater than realization" may be operative here.

[@tommcqueen3145]

👍👍

[@IveGotonethatCanSee]

Wrist breaker ouch lol

[@kc0lif]

nice test. most calibers ok. s&w j frames kick good in 357 mag😅. 4/9/2024.

[@theoriginalOSOK]

A 10mm vs .357 Mag would have been a better match up. The 40 is a great round but it's lower energy than the .357 Mag. And that .357 load is pretty heavy for the 605... I own one myself... it's a very light .357 IMHO. ETA... 1100 fps is a hot 40 S&W load though.... OK... then. I'll just shut up and watch the show.

[@toddpatik8834]

When you slow it down with the 357 you did a lot better that's for sure

[@True70woodsman]

357mag, the ultimate man stopper wins again.

[@dangerman007]

I would not like to carry that .357 magnum load in a snub nose. The fireball was impressive but no way as a carry load. Flinch city on that one...

[@pkjdm]

.40sw best weigh is 155 grain ...

[@RoadTraveler]

Bump

[@RoadTraveler]

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