Liberty, Fraternity, Equality

What if the name of the game is not an opposition to progress categorically, but a fundamental disagreement on the nature of progress?
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#liberty #fraternity #equality

[@Hammerhead547]

"The worst ideas always come from a combination of french intellectualism and american radicalism" ~Dr, David Starkey

[@dirtypure2023]

What did he mean by that, exactly? Love Dr. Starkey, he's a treasure.

[@Hammerhead547]

@@dirtypure2023 He was talking about how the labor party destroyed itself by embracing the radical left and how jeremy corbyn hasn't a single original thought or idea in his head that doesn't come from either radical american "thinkers" or french philosophy.. It was in the interview he did with the sun after the last uk election.

[@dirtypure2023]

@@Hammerhead547 Thanks. I remember bits of that interview. Shame he was canceled for saying "damn blacks" or whatever lol.

[@kosmikme]

@Azoth Ace which both came from ideas borrowed from the American and French revolutionaries. I mean come on, Communism comes from La Commune de Paris.

[@fsdsdf7693]

@@kosmikme The Paris Commune took place in 1871. Marx wrote the communist manifesto in 1848.

[@ShortFatOtaku]

Oh also, people often use "liberal" synonymously with "left". I don't think this is an accurate way of describing the situation. In reality, Liberals and Conservatives are a part of the same political tradition, and are entirely disconnected from Left and Right.

[@eyelessking1]

it was academic agent that came up with the triangle

[@joeyginise6051]

You are absolutely right. I remember learning the difference between "liberal" and "leftist" from a Prager U video of all things. The political positions typically associated with each are fundamentally different and they should actually come into conflict because of it. However, the far left has successfully duped the liberals into thinking they are on the same side. Which I think has also disillusioned those few Liberals who escaped the trap. Forced to watch as there contemporaries fall prey to madness and "wokeness." It is rather tragic if you sit down and think about it.

[@ninaruss8149]

Thank you for the video! I love you too! :)

[@eyelessking1]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6KkhYWihNuZqJI

[@Schism07]

The political dichotomy is a totally erroneous model of the true spectrum. It's not just over-simplifed, it leaves out an entire dimension of the political map, and that's why groups such as liberals, conservatives, etc. are mis- categorized. Look up the "political trichotomy" which accurately accounts for all 3 existing dimensions. There are basically three extremes: communists on the left and libertarians and absolutists on the right, but as distinctly separate from one another as they are to the communists on the far left. Each political ideology has its overarching supreme value at its core, which are mutually exclusive from one another, and any one comes at the expense of the other two; those values being, equality (communism) ; liberty (libertarianism) ; stability (absolutism). Moderates such as liberals and conservatives are naturally somewhere in between the three extremes, but with the Overton window shifting inexorably to the left towards communism.

[@DrEhrfurchtgebietend]

Fascism was largely a form of socialism/marxism. Fascism would be in the bottom center. The hard tradition corner would be a feudal monarchy

[@Persianversion]

Hence why monarchy is missing in the French trifecta. You are absolutely right

[@Sanchez.Basado]

Agreed, the true right is monarchy, whether it’s conditional or not, feudal or not.

[@Tilim1st]

In my opinion, "tradition" is not the value of "fascism". In my opinion tradition is just a tool to achieve their real core value which is "stability".

[@l.a.wright6912]

Facists default to statist nationalism. Traditionalists default to a form of ethnonationalism. Both will take from aspects of each other and manipulate each other but they are at its core different

[@sigsaucer2582]

I think it depends on the state, Japan while very free culturally they encourage and promote tradition. This provides stability, they have some policies that help this but not oppressively so.

[@eliaspanayi3465]

Tradition is the thing that we did for hundreds of years that allowed modern society to develop

[@Jonjzi]

I was going to say something similar. The word "tradition" makes it sound arbitrary or without purpose. I was going to suggest "utility" instead, but "stability" works too I guess.

[@Y0UT0PIA]

@@eliaspanayi3465 but also what we had to begin questioning in order to get to modernity. funny thing, right?

[@CarvaxIV]

Change Tradition to Order, and you just recreated the three ideologies in Victoria 2.

[@thegreathadoken6808]

Victoria II is the answer to the west's political woes, confirmed!

[@SniperDizzyJohny]

Based game

[@compatriot852]

Victoria III when?

[@rickshawjones8591]

Haha, I just wrote something similar

[@lolfunacount]

lol the triangle itself is in HOI3.

[@ZontarDow]

The triangle was me Dev, been pushing you for a while to make a video on it. Traditional is more Stability though, but traditional ideas became tradition since they're stable so... I don't know why I keep editing this comment.

[@jackcantdraw]

I knew it was gonna be you, I scrolled through looking for this.

[@ZontarDow]

@@jackcantdraw You know me so well

[@ShortFatOtaku]

@@ZontarDow are you two good friends :3

[@ShortFatOtaku]

@@jackcantdraw jack where did you go i haven't seen you in months i miss u ;_;

[@jackcantdraw]

@@ShortFatOtaku I'm only in 3 1/2 Discords now, I spent far too much time just scrolling.

[@TWRehab]

Liberty = The freedom not to watch the CHAZ video. Fraternity = Everyone not watching the CHAZ video together. Equality = Regardless of background or creed nobody gets to watch the CHAZ video.

[@tok3659]

2 years have now passed. The CHAZ video is the next YT suggestion in my sidebar..........

[@novitrix9671]

I WATCHED THE VIDEO NOW WHAT

[@andrewmorris8650]

That video is a frickin fever dream

[@TheAlabastard]

I'm getting the CHAZ video version of blue balls here, dude.

[@compatriot852]

I'm offended that you forgot the most important and often overlooked part of the political triangle. The radical centrist

[@sirius6738]

because they will no longer matter after the Centricide

[@paulolucero9864]

Centricide seems to be (again) the only reasonable way

[@Bready_Player_Bun]

That's where they fooled you. They convinced you that a Liberal is a Centrist. That it is merely a razor's edge between Left and Right, and that you need to pick a side, because you're "not on one."

[@chetansharma6344]

Time to burn that fence.. 😈

[@OniGanon]

All I know is my gut says maybe. If I don't survive, tell my wife: "hello."

[@TurdFlingingMonkey]

I've been talking about this trichotomy for a while. I use the terms Individualism (rather than Liberalism), Communism, and Absolutism (rather than Fascism). The reason for using Absolutism is because it incorporates monarchists and reactionaries who favor all absolute forms of government, not merely fascism. Also, the value of tradition is based on the desire for stability. the desire for a stable society is a bit more universal than tradition for its own sake. The desire for brotherhood (fraternity) is based more on the desire for stability than tradition. I have a lot of graphs I can share with you if you want.

[@shoa4566]

Tfm. You back on KZbin?

[@TurdFlingingMonkey]

@@shoa4566 yeah, but only for sex toy reviews. Go to bitchute and MGTOW.TV for my normal content.

[@somechinesedude5466]

Recommend to watch on mgtow .tv just because bitchute is pain in the ass to load, i understand why, but service quality is service quality

[@nerthus4685]

Thanks, I found them on Bitchute, will check it out.

[@groundfloorguthrie]

If 'stability' is a core desire of the 'absolutist' in this framework, what would be a similar-but-opposing core desires of individualism and communism? 'Instability' seems uncharitable, but I'd be interested in what this framework might suggest. Do you have videos on such topics?

[@sketchyscratch]

when u wanna play some last of us 2 but ur buddy sucks so bad u have to revert back to politics

[@theweebkin7005]

Bad at last of us 2 sounds an insult that could start fighting

[@H250V]

Tbf, it's a mix of both game sucking and friend sucking

[@jose-uu7ed]

@@H250V gay

[@StayFractalesque]

do people like games they're bad at?

[@davidgusquiloor2665]

@@StayFractalesque i suck at Mega Man but i love it anyway

[@Makoto03]

I had always considered myself conservative or right of center because i viewed things in a linear fashion, but that pyramid makes alot of sense. Using that i would be firmly in the side of liberalism because i value personal freedom over everything else. Which is why i get annoyed by censorship from either side, whether its family values conservatives using 'protect the children' or hyper woke lefties wanting to shield minorities from 'hate speech'.

[@Grymbaldknight]

I've said on some of Dev's other videos that young(ish) moderates today have fought back against finger-wagging censorship on both sides. Take the world of Gaming, for example. During the 90s and early 00s, the Christian Right were trying to censor violent or sexual games for being "indecent", "bad for children", and so on. During the last decade, the Intersectional Left have tried to censor non-woke games for being "sexist", "exclusionary", and so on. Both the Right and Left are capable of being stupid and authoritarian. I don't care which of our proverbial neighbours kick their ball into our garden; all i care about is that it stops happening, and that they leave us in peace.

[@somethingsomething8511]

That's because the liberals and the fascists are outnumbered by commies nowadays forcing them into the same political party. If fascists outnumbered commies the liberals would be considered on the left, just like they were in the 50s

[@tm23822]

I really have a problem with this paradigm of "tradition is Fascism" Tradition is just the world before 1700. Fascism is much more about state totalitarianism, and only incorporates tradition as long as it serves the state's needs. Demonizing traditionalism like this is what gets you into a situation where the social fabric of your country is so weak that a Fascist state arises from a desire for order at all costs. I don't think that being pressured to adhere to tradition by the society around you is fascism. I think that is a gross cope to justify living in degeneracy, I'll just be honest. Tradition is a cultural and philosophical concept. Fascism is a political concept based on the perfection of the state which transcends any philosophy, culture, or traditions.

[@dirtypure2023]

You articuled very well my feelings about it. Generally I think the model works, but as several others have suggested before me, perhaps it would be more accurate to use the term 'security' instead of 'tradition'. Maybe?

[@BoneistJ]

@@dirtypure2023 Order would probably be better than security.

[@thisismelv]

I never understood why people reject the idea of an autocratic state. In some situation, a strong state with a simplified action-making process does more good than a democratic state with its heavy bureaucracy. The best examples are countries building themselves back up from war or poverty: De Gaulle's France, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam, Khadafi's Lybia.

[@50centpb7]

To your average liberal, everything before 1965 was totalitarianism.

[@bruhbruh4329]

@@thisismelv An autocratic state that does good by its citizenry is a fluke. A coincidence. A liberal democracy doing right by its citizenry is the system working as intended. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[@davidgusquiloor2665]

The French revolution is taught as the biggest achievement in modern history. But they don't talk too much alut the great Terror or how funny it is that they got rid of a King only to end up with an Emperor. I have learned recently how the American revolution did more for the world.

[@MrATN800]

Except we do, we really do teach it here in France. Also, if you want to compare, the American Revolution can be seen as America needing to drag itself into abolishing slavery, where France was the first modern country to ban it within it's own borders, and England then made sure the rest of the world followed suit.

[@RussianBot-xu7wl]

Devs been killing it lately with the topics he's been covering. I love how he's able to use such simplistic language and visuals in order to concisely convey his points without being reductive or strawmaning. That's the Hallmark of someone who knows what they're talking about and I believe this is exactly what people need to look for in their political/social commentary. We need more rational, honest actors contributing to these dialogues, because the more Devs there are, the less wiggle room there will be left for radicals and ideologues to poison the well and subvert the topic being discussed.

[@SgtAbramovich]

Honestly, SFO is criminally undersubbed and it should be bigger than Sargon, nowadays. Dev just produces better content, but refuses to play the game KZbin's way, which I can absolutely respect.

[@RussianBot-xu7wl]

@@SgtAbramovich I totally agree with you that he deserves way more attention, and I believe sooner or later he'll get it, but I also believe Sargon has earned his audience and notoriety as well. I can respect where you're coming from though.

[@SgtAbramovich]

@@RussianBot-xu7wl Sargon absolutely did earn his spot and audience, it's just that his new content is kinda meh, while Dev just reminds me a lot of Sargon's old stuff, the more philosophical meat I'm all about.

[@RussianBot-xu7wl]

@@SgtAbramovich I can broadly see what you mean, but I don't see Sargon's new content as being any less philosophically based. Its simply more that Sargon's new stuff is focused more on being reactionary, while Dev is sticking predominantly to more broad, general topics of discussion. I can see why you would prefer the more broad discussions since it's easier to focus more on the substance of the topic, but I don't see one style as being inherintely superior in regards to facilitating the discussion itself. But like I said before, I can totally see where you're coming from, and can agree, to a certain extent.

[@Quikostdreggs]

The definition of the smoothbrain take.

[@SniperDizzyJohny]

The biggest mistake in political debate is ignoring the cognitive capacities of the living thing you want to apply your system.

[@afuzzycreature8387]

I disagree that fascism rejects progress but only sees progress through the ideals of the state and its people.

[@bruhbruh4329]

So it only uses progress to advance its traditional and cultural ideas. I mean that'll get you further than the communists. Something something electricity and candles

[@afuzzycreature8387]

@Roger Dodger No. A fascist state won't do radical change but it will do change. It does not do so as an idealization of its tradition.

[@Tespri]

@Roger Dodger So USA is facists for having classical liberal values as tradition?

[@GreenSamurai2]

I was listening to this and was reminded of a quote. "Anybody that defines their opposition while rejecting their opposition's ability to do the same is not worthy of your trust and the facts. They only respect them because it is useful. And they will reject them both when it is no longer so."

[@Not_actually_a_commie]

I've always found Fascism fascinatingly odd as an ideology. Socially, I definitely think it can be classified as its own corner in the triangle, but economically, it's really somewhat socialist, corporatism being the least socialist of the Fascist economic systems. Remember, Mussolini was still socialist in his thinking when he took power

[@petman515]

It makes more sense when you remember Mussolini spent a decade as a comunist and then kept several of the ideas while rejecting several core tenants of communism the workers revolution being a big one he dumped. FDR (yes that one) even lauded the "fascist model of socialism" prior to ww2 haveing major socialist / comunist leaningings him self you can even parallel FDRs social programs with one's in Germany and see why his where failing till lend lease flooded the USA economy with hard money mostly in the form of gold.

[@david-468]

@@petman515 I know a year later but don’t forget to mention where the “influx of gold” came from, was American citizens

[@petman515]

@@david-468 yes and no while you are right he did ban the the private ownership of gold and in effect steal from the American people most of the land lease payments and other things we sold to the ally nations where payed for in hard spisce mostly again in gold. Lend lease is in many ways the capitalist secret that held up fdrs socialist and let's be real communist lie.

[@david-468]

@@petman515 yes I probably agree with you In more ways then not however he more stole then banned private ownership of funds/gold, I mean that’s how war bonds (I.o.u.) became a thing lol, he is by far the most overrated president also IMO lol he was ok but he’s given credit that his successors deserve, idk sorry I’m rambling now lol

[@david-468]

@@petman515 I’m trynna say, it would’ve been one thing if he said “we need your gold because of war” but he said “we will give you your gold back after the war” but didn’t really

[@PontiMAC]

Charitable View Right: If it is not broken, then do not fix it. Left: If it is good, then it must be perfected. Center: If it is harmful, then replace it.

[@SMCwasTaken]

Fixed it Left: if it's old then it's bad Right: if it is good, then it must be perfected, if its already perfect, thek do not fix it

[@hudsondunn8385]

Insert

[@BoneistJ]

I fail to see how the supreme fascist value is traditionalism. Hitler didn't reinstall the Kaiser and Mussolini tried to dethrone Victor Emmanuel.

[@ShortFatOtaku]

cultural tradition, not necessarily tradition in leadership

[@rogierb5945]

Fascism demands a spiritual rebirth of its people, though it does use 'wisdom of the past' to achieve it. Still, they have no interest in 'going back'.

[@Snakedude4life]

I prefer the “Libertarian dodecahedron.” I’m at “all gun laws are infringement” but above “Suspend all building codes.”💯 🎩 🐍 no step on SNEK! 🇺🇸🇭🇰

[@giin97]

I don't remember seeing a constitutional amendment stating that my right to own and build buildings however I want are an inherent right that no government can make laws against, dictating my behavior.

[@bedlamite42]

Has anybody finished labeling a buckyball yet?

[@Sebastian_Hahn]

@@giin97 Unfortunately there seems to be nothing in the constitution restricting the degree to which the government (or community organizations like HOAs) can restrict the use of private property by private individuals; or anything to force the government et al to prove the necessity and utility of such restrictions. Imo, it's a good candidate for a new constitutional amendment though; private property rights being extremely important in this nation, and all.

[@Mindpron]

I'm all for ditching most building codes for houses under two stories, with exception to plumbing and electric. Some of the old houses built before such things have long outlasted their more regulated brethren.

[@Bodge18]

@@giin97 Imagine thinking that the Constitution is legitimate. This post was made by Lysander Spooner gang.

[@number3766]

Chaz dev......its becoming a meme

[@um536vids2]

Dev’s Chaz video got cancelled faster than Chaz.

[@DriftedVisionMan]

what is Chaz?

[@freetoaster3638]

@@DriftedVisionMan Capital Hill Autonomous Zone

[@Dragnuav]

CHAZ WHEN DEV?!

[@um536vids2]

What if the delay is PART of the Chaz video?

[@tasty_wind4294]

To be fair, when you’re so Left that you damn near fall of the scale, technically everything else is indeed “far right”

[@Mathmachine]

7:03 THANK! YOU! I get so tired of being told that when I talk about how terrible Communism is that I never say anything bad about Fascism, ergo I must support Fascism because I'm only bashing Communism. We had a whole World War to show how flawed Fascism is. We destroyed it! I think that would be sign enough, and I don't have to repeat it every time I speak that Fascism was bad.

[@qwertyman321]

You should look up turd flinging monkey's political tricomity on bitchute his already did a analysis on this ages ago.

[@RobzdaBlade]

Miss that guy.

[@peterb8904]

@@RobzdaBlade did he finally get purged off of KZbin or is he just uploading only to bitchute now?

[@notmgtowyet8442]

@@peterb8904 Search Dlive, sir.

[@postapocalypse0763]

@@peterb8904 Kind of. He is mostly on Bitchute and DLive but his sex toy reviews get uploaded to KZbin.

[@premier1975]

@@peterb8904 yep, tfm is on bitchute and dlive

[@tehZevo_]

This is actually amazing. Thanks to you and whoever showed it to you for bringing this to light. After looking through the comments, I took a look at Turd Flinging Monkey's and Academic Agent's discussions on political trichotomy. Hopefully this gets pushed into mainstream political discussions.

[@uberwayz]

In my belief inequality is an infinately preferable state of affairs so long as a society is based upon meritocracy. Reciprocity the ultimate value on which a society should be based. As a propertarian I believe reciprocity should be enshrined into law under a constitution and the judiciary should be obliged to always rule in favor if reciprocity.

[@dman1234541]

How dare u?!

[@bruhbruh4329]

Freedom is not the absence of difficulty, but the absence of coercion.

[@dirtypure2023]

What do you mean 'rule in favor of reciprocity'?

[@bruhbruh4329]

@@dirtypure2023 Presumably, "I did what you asked me to do, repay me".

[@reaper7152]

Propertarian is an ideology for dead man. How can an ideology sustain itself when its leaders, Doolittle and John Mark, crumble in the face of adversity? Why does the ideology worship an object set in stone? A constitution is merely a tool used to obtain freedom, it does not guarantee it. The people do.

[@Tilim1st]

He is beginning to see the political trichotomy. Virgin compass vs Chad trichotomy.

[@thecompareablezombie]

The truth of it is there

[@P3RF3CTD3ATH]

"He's starting to believe." - Morpheus

[@ameliaheredia9264]

I just discovered your channel today. I can't wait for more future content!

[@ShortFatOtaku]

thank you!

[@mitomen2000]

This is such an intelligent channel. No wonder it has so little traction.

[@Le-cp9tr]

I try to avoid labels and drill down to principles and guiding axioms. As convenient as saying “leftists” is, I think it ignores the deeper contention based on fundamental tenets and the multifaceted nature of man

[@Theosis10]

I’ve always been grateful for your videos, but this one above many others really puts many things into perspective. Thank you so much for making it and sharing it with us. This honestly is what I imagine a college lecture would have looked like back before ideologies took over.

[@nicwolf1370]

Very close but I have things to add: The you got it right that the ultimate expression of Order isn't Nazism. It's Tsarism. The incredibly rigid social order couldn't allow people to reach their potential, and so those downtrodden would always have flipped the table and revolted. At the end your were circling around what "progress" means for the libertarians. I think the highest ethic for the libertarians is "Darwinism". So progress, economic or otherwise, will always resemble that struggle. Think anarcho-capitalism, the "free market of ideas", sexual experimentation etc. The Libertarians believe in a Darwinian hierarchy, which rejects the hierarchy of incompetence of Authoritarianism and the hierarchy of redistribution of Socialism. The Socialists believe In Equity, which rejects the dog-eat-dog brutality of Libertarianism and the oppression of Authoritarianism. The Authoritarians believe in a hierarchy of the great and the good, which rejects Socialism's equity between the noble and the degenerate, and Libertarianism's hierarchy of expedience.

[@50centpb7]

Ironically societies don't favor libertarianism in all instances where we let this Darwinistic system play out. Libertarians always end up getting run out of their own system by either the right or progressives.

[@NedJeffery]

I would say libertarians view progress as a process, socialists view it as a destination, and authoritarians view it as a threat.

[@rexthompson5909]

@@50centpb7 elaborate

[@50centpb7]

@@rexthompson5909 Libertarians are politically incompetent, and they are politically incompetent because they are politically passive. They are consistently out-competed by political interests which are better able to network, organize, and are more willing to wield power where libertarians can only negate it. Insofar as libertarians do engage with politics, they will do so in a purely reactive mode, which means their enemies are always the ones setting the agenda while libertarians can only react to it. Their playbook is all defense, so they can take never take ground but can always lose it, which they inevitably do. Libertarians will often pride themselves on their moderation and passivity. It's a comfortable place to be politically if you lack any kind of positive vision you wish to impose on the world and really just want t9 be left alone. This why libertarianism has for decades been the natural home of moderates, centrists, and the politically unambitious of all varieties, but it's this fundamental lack of fantaticism, or rather this anti-fanaticism, which ultimately makes Libertarianism unattractive to the kinds of highly motivated, passionate people who always make up the real movers and shakers of any political movement.

[@Hisu0]

@@50centpb7 You're making it sound as if "live and let live" was generally (not situationally) a bad motto to follow. And also, you seem to lean on the side of energocracy, as in, effort being the ultimate value. I wonder where you come from with that.

[@YizzTheEunuch]

Very shimsteresting... Nice to see/hear this from you Devo, I think you're a good person

[@RussianBot-xu7wl]

I'm loving the positivity I've been seeing on these channels lately. Keep up the good vibes m'dude; that's gonna be a huge factor in pushing back the radicals and creating a sustainable sense of normalcy. 👍🏿

[@nautdead3197]

Nah turn your back for half a second and you'll find out later he's shot a guard.

[@DutchDeathZone]

I think you're wrong on Fascism being associated with tradition. I think Fraternite translates better into unity of purpose.

[@liveretroarcade4819]

I subscribed today after hearing what youve been saying for a while, thanks for your insight on these things, this feels extremely grounded and put together to, this video is very impressive

[@lendrigangames]

Instead of "Left" and "Right" wing, I've been using the terms "Communal" and "Individual," respectively. It's much more descriptive and harder to muddy.

[@BananaHoardX]

I like a lot your videos SFO, you are tapping intro the true nature of the Philosopher and thus I respect you more than others that just anchor themselves into their own thoughts and political views. Keep the good work and keep on enlightening yourself in all walks of life, for it is the path of wisdom.

[@catholicphoenix7969]

Perfect. I'm gonna use this new chart. I'm getting really sick of the left right dynamic so this will be a nice change

[@ChrisRWitt]

This is a really good video dev. Sargon posted one like it a few months back and I favorited it so I could rewatch it because it wasn't super clear for me, but your explanation of this triangle clicked for me.

[@therussiancomicbookgeek]

Very well put

[@lifeyoushouldtryit]

I am a libertarian, but freedom isnt my highest value, truth is.

[@rexthompson5909]

You have to have freedom in order to pursue truth

[@RicardoAGuitar]

I don't believe in truth. Truth is a word that represents the ideal according to whoever is advocating for the truth. One example is a pro-lifer claiming that the truth is that abortion is destructive to families and society alike. (What a surprise, truth just happens to align with what the pro-lifer believed) Reality is the word I prefer. The easiest way to explain the difference between truth and reality is this: something happens in a public space. 35 people saw it happen, and a security camera recorded it. The truth is what those 35 people saw, just ask them. Reality is what's on that recording. And yet, we STILL can't see reality for what it is. All of us will watch that video and see different things when we watch it. Human beings filter everything. I could cite things such as the two viral tests from a couple of years ago (is it "yanny" or "laurel"? Is the dress white/gold or blue/black), but the competing versions of the "truth" about the riots/protests is far more relevant at the moment.

[@lifeyoushouldtryit]

@@rexthompson5909 if someone else uses their freedom to lie though, and they mislead and decieve people then those people arent actually free to make their own choices because they have bad information. Freedom has to be subservient to truth because if its the other way around lies will destroy freedom

[@rexthompson5909]

@@lifeyoushouldtryit I was thinking about it from the perspective of "you must have freedom in order to pursue truth", but I handy considered how bad information can hinder freedom Also Iirc learning and becoming good at critical thinking and logic as well as rhetoric (logos, pathos and ethos) can help you sort through bad information to find qualitative information, sift through bullshit to find truth etc

[@kenle2]

​@@lifeyoushouldtryit You have the real issue brought about by the Seinfeld quote from George Costanza: "It's not a lie if you believe it." Of course, that was the character being disingenuous, but what about the more common version: "I don't accept your premise, because your TRUTH doesn't fit my observations/experience/belief systems"? It's easy to just label that as ignorance, but the problem is we keep having official "TRUTHS" turn out to be "a little bit misleading" ("depends on what the meaning of 'is' is") or "a necessary untruth" (N95 masks aren't necessary for the public)" Who decides what is "enough TRUTH"? And don't say "the individual". Nobody could possibly thoroughly research every single political, economic or scientific issue that has the potential to get them cheated, imprisoned or killed if they get the "wrong" answer.

[@vivecthepoet36]

Something Else to consider is that pre-enlightenment ideology still exists, it didn't magically go away. One could layer a second triangle over the enlightenment one, I imagine it might include Theism, Conservatism.... idk, I've thought about this a lot but I haven't actually bothered to really break it down in specific terms.

[@HunterofWaifus]

Ya really cranking out these vids bro good shit

[@Keirnoth]

Awesome topic Dev. Gave me a lot to think about and it better explains the whole thing.

[@SpaceTimeXXX]

Charlemagne did a good video on this called the "genealogy of liberalism",

[@conorkerlin5928]

Please choose a more reasonable time to upload, us non Americans shouldn’t have to suffer like this. In future, please screw over the Asian time zones because they don’t matter.

[@conorkerlin5928]

Oh and in regards to my comment on the last video, prepare to get the ol Nagasaki treatment

[@JodyBruchon]

I'm lying in bed in America reading your comment. I laugh at your pain as my head wobbles.

[@max-9641]

Great video dev and idk why but I couldn't stop chuckling at the smile emoji with sunglasses for the anarchos

[@vivecthepoet36]

Honestly 8 axis is still limiting. It's best to start by addressing ideologies as what they are, and move down from there, rather than start with the generalization (ie, left, right).

[@USAltefore]

This was well-thought out. The last segment addressed something that I had been pondering ever since I watched your video on reactionaries. I always thought it was strange that socialists called liberals reactionaries, given that liberals tend to seek new solutions to problems that traditionalism fails to address. Liberals typically don't want to return to some previous paradigm, but the socialists still see that as being reactionary because from their perspective, anything other than progress on their own terms is regression. It's difficult to wrap my head around how they are able to see things that way. Here's an analogy I came up with. Socialists: Let's go north. Fascists: Let's go south. Liberals: Let's go west. Socialists: So you have chosen south.

[@illinoisanimperialist6381]

Should tradition be replaced with order, it seems that tradition is just an easier way of getting order the fascists utilize. Otherwise I agree with this a lot, I think we all have been thumbing with this concept for a while ( I definitely have). In my philosophy classes the prisoner's dilemma was proposed, my professor divided the responses into three types: contractarianism, socialism, and capitalism. So this is Hobbes, Rousseau, and Adam Smith; a better way might be replacing Smith with Locke. This would look like Contractarianism, socialism, and Liberalism. Liberalism and socialism would look a lot like you described, but contract would replace fascism. Hobbesean thought is the bed work for authoritarianism and personifies order, the tradition you used is better served by Hobbes's sympathy for Monarchy. I think this would make a cleaner system.

[@petman515]

Yeah it's stability and leads more to absoluteisem than fasisem. What peaple forget is that cultures and peaple keep traditions because they make a stable society not the other way around.

[@exiled_aussie]

Good job man I like how you laid that all out

[@IconoclasticFeverDream]

Dude your vids are so good

[@somerandomnesspoo8467]

I think that it's more security than tradition, you can be heavily traditional but definitely liberal they don't contradict each other.

[@projp9057]

Cool

[@AkiRa22084]

Awesome work!

[@greaser1945]

Nicely put.

[@dman1234541]

So this whole time they've been right calling me a fascist? Huh.... And here I am thinking tradition has some value...

[@dirtypure2023]

Others have pointed out that 'tradition' is probably the wrong term. 'Security' might be a better choice?

[@somebody5702]

I was about to say. I'm pretty sure guys like the Dalai Lama had once spoken positively of traditional roots. So I guess he's a fascist in accordance to this.

[@oxitocin7718]

@@somebody5702 well if you want a totall cultural rebirth and going to the past like Red Ice Tv for example their intro is literally : future is the past i don't think he said something that extreme

[@somebody5702]

@@oxitocin7718 Granted, I don't know enough on Red Ice TV, so you're probably right about that. But he did get in trouble for saying the refugees from the middle east should return to the middle east to rebuild their homes and let Europe be for the European natives. To be fair that's what any actual refugee would do if possible, but there is a strong sense of traditionalism and an essence of cultural rebirth there, since it would be a wind back of the clock for both middle eastern and European countries.

[@29-arnavsamant97]

I mean not really since you could still uphold and encourage others to uphold tradition whilst letting others have the choice to not follow them.

[@stephenknizek2651]

So by the triangle, what differentiates conservative concepts of tradition from fascist concepts of tradition? I admit asking tho mid-video, but it is still a valid question.

[@ShortFatOtaku]

how close to the liberal side they are

[@29-arnavsamant97]

Conservative view on tradition is, hey it's a good thing, please follow? Fascists view is, follow or die The other difference is that conservatives aren't proactive in "conserving" tradition

[@Nephanor]

Very good concept. I like that 3 pronged approach

[@elgoogsucks9005]

Thank you, that was a handy/insightful classification of current political thought.

[@rickshawjones8591]

Fascism does not exemplify tradition overall. It exemplifies order. Individualism is lost in it. Tradition is not fascism

[@thestraycat69]

So by the standards of equality, tradition, and Liberty. Shouldn't the top most extreme of that be Anarchy?

[@kabukiblooki]

It's the enlightenment ideologies You would be right,yes,but anarchy was rarely popular

[@kongfeet81]

Excellent vid

[@ShortFatOtaku]

thank you!

[@MissRora]

I see that triangle and my mind goes straight to the "McDonald's alignment chart" meme.

[@DrEhrfurchtgebietend]

What about monarchy like saudi arabia or europe 100 years ago? It is traditionalist but not fascist

[@stayotter]

I think Sargon had a very similar thought process in his right ordering of the world video. Edit: It was in this video where Sargon discuss the three topics discussed by Dev kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJWvkp6Llph-jpo

[@bfranciscop]

Sargon made a video on a very similar subject three months ago. You described it as why each vertex of the triangle opposes the other two, he described it as why from the point of view of one vertex, both other vertices start looking identical.

[@krisbrants9461]

This just in: Dev discovers that, sometimes, the sun goes away!

[@hagnartheviking6584]

day 34 still no CHAZ video.

[@cacanalgas655]

Nick fuentes isnt alt right or facsist. He is a paleoconservative and a nationalist.

[@andylifer5302]

Thank you for continually speaking truth and carrying the torch or freedom. Keep up the good work.

[@Agorizer]

Brava!

[@nitmanujer]

Isn't this just Sargon's Enlightenment Triad video with a graphic? Wondering if you've seen it.

[@dirtypure2023]

Perhaps, just far more succinctly and coherently stated? (I'm generally a fan of Sargon, but sometimes he's overly winded and ends up blurring the point of his arguments in the midst of excessive wordiness.)

[@terkelalgevind529]

Sargon got starflu atm and likes hes own farts alot, but he will turn around soon naturally.:p

[@rexthompson5909]

It's a different way of talking about the same concept This tends to happen when discussing human psychology (at least iirc it does), people come to the same conclusions and label them different things depending upon how far their thought process goes It's all the same ideas fundamentally, just different names. The more information you have and the more you think these things through the deeper your understanding gets and the more conclusions you're able to make

[@terkelalgevind529]

@@rexthompson5909 Did tube cut answer? Anyway i get it man, stefan molyneux also likes hes own farts but when talking in depth philosophy you cant tabloid it really.

[@rexthompson5909]

@@terkelalgevind529 who is tube cut

[@Kurtlane]

I really like the triangle. However, identifying fascism with tradition or traditionalism is simply wrong. Mussolini was certainly not a traditionalist. His movement claimed to be for progress, for modernity, for overcoming the past and tradition and reaching for the stars. No wonder Marinetti, the founder of the Futurist movement, became a fascist. And Marinetti wasn't alone. The German version of fascism went somewhat differently, but, hard as it is for us to imagine, they too believed in progress. Only, their kind of progress. Even the modern jihadis believe in progress. From their dusty mosques or caves, they do believe that they will conquer the world, that everyone will submit to Allah or become a dhimmi, etc. And that's progress in their view. The liberal idea of progress, though not delineated as sharply as in other ideologies, carries its own set of distinct assumptions. It is a belief that in the long run life will only get better, that the paths that lead to dead ends may be tried but will inevitably be rejected, that along with greater technology respect for freedom and human rights will be winning. etc., etc., read Arthur C. Clarke. The essence of fascism is not tradition, but unity, not traditionalism, but belief in absolute power of the State over the people or any other organization. From this point, one can see that the triangle is not equilateral but isosceles, with socialism and fascism being very close to each other. The thing is: whenever any Socialist tries to go beyond pure theory, he very quickly finds out that the State needs to become stronger and force people to submit, that this power of the State goes very well with strong nationalism, and that hierarchy fits very well with this also. Socialism might theorize about dying out of State, ethnicity and hierarchy, but any attempt to put it into reality, eventually calls for strengthening these things. Combined with other socialist features, it becomes almost indistinguishable from fascism.

[@petehodges6234]

The Academic Agent did this video about a year ago explaining that horseshoe theory was a triangle.

[@SurrealKeenan]

This explains both the ideas of the horseshoe and the hook

[@JazzJackrabbit]

lol @ "breadtube reply girls"

[@supercalifragic1551]

I don't think that triangle chart is appropriate, it's skewed towards liberalism in a way. The true top corner would be Libertarianism. Liberals would be more central, maybe even more towards the top-right pane- or at least American/Classical Liberalism is. Though this chart also unduly has a slant or poisoning of the well against Tradition. Traditions become Traditions because they're the things that worked, they're the lessons of those that came before, the questions they're the answer towards becoming lost, and so without a question you lose sight of the answer, and abandon it, only for those problems to come again if you cannot find a new answer, if you can even address the question.

[@GTADriver1]

Hearing the word progress so much reminded me of a Fingertight album, In The Name of Progress; Maybe their ideas were seen as communistic back around '03, but idk, re-listening makes me think more to the Liberty angle at times.

[@liverloop123]

Brilliant vid.

[@TheRevengeSociety]

I love you, please notice me

[@RussianBot-xu7wl]

I love you too.

[@TheRevengeSociety]

@@RussianBot-xu7wl :3

[@dirtypure2023]

[@the99throgue25]

Great video.

[@harleymitchelly5542]

Triangle theory/the infinite horseshoe! Academic Agent made a vid on that one a while back.

[@RobzdaBlade]

I wanna be the bullseye of that triangle. It's... Eye... Wait a minute... :P

[@tann_man]

interesting how the closer one lands on a single point of the triangle the more the opposite two points blend together

[@MikeHunt-zh6lt]

really love ya vids bro you make me think

[@openmindian]

Thanks for the interesting video. What do you think the triangle consisted of before French revolution? Say, in medieval times?

[@youoweadamn]

Well done. I'm not 100% on board with everything you said, but this was a good video.

[@carloskillface5990]

The traditions of my people is freedom...

[@lovelifeanarchy]

9:50 There aren't gone. They have been removed from KZbin. It's not hard to piece together why that is.

[@terkelalgevind529]

Also fuentes still pull averages bigger3then 9/10 alt youtubers on dlive alike. Catboykami on bitchute pull 100k plus views to as the ONLY.

[@nakedmongoose6837]

My Intro to Political Science text book in uni had a similar trichodomy, except instead of communism, it was socialism, and instead of fascism, it was conservatism (i.e. liberalism, conservatism and socialism). These three were presented as the “main” ideologies (with each of them getting their own chapter), and there was a single additional chapter about smaller fringe ideologies, one of whom was fascism. I think the liberalism/conservatism/socialism trichodomy makes more sense, as it fits better with the idea that each of the three thinks that the other two are the same. That is: conservatives in the US referring to leftists as liberals, liberals saying that conservatives and socialists are both anti-freedom, socialists saying that conservatives and liberals both support capitalism and the status quo, etc...

[@andrewcraig1074]

This triangle is ridiculously helpful. I was aware that there was problems with the traditional political spectrum before- oftentimes resulting in communism and Nazism described as the two ends, with everything else falling in between. That had always bothered me, but I didn't know another way of explaining why it wasn't true.

[@dragonturtle2703]

Not sure if fascism is tradition. I think either order/security or comradeship is it (it’s all about being in a group/“family” bigger than yourself).

[@swordguy1243]

Liberty above all

[@aureliusofphoenix4834]

Interesting vid dev