Sargon And Shoe0nHead Are Both Wrong

HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT I SUCK COCKS
Sargon's first video: • Video
Sargon's second video: • Video
Shoe's stream: • Finally Responding to ...
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[@PostmortemVideo]

No. Left wing politics is anti-hierarchical. Right-wing politics sees it as natural and attempts to preserve traditional hierarchies (and hierarchies at all), or those they mistake for natural via nostalgia.

[@TheLastSoundNL]

Then why does left wing politics have identity politics which has progressive stacking with intersectionality? That's a hierarchy based on perceived oppression.

[@Theranthrope]

Having "Dear Leader" and "the people" in a command economy is a hierarchy. You are incorrect.

[@PostmortemVideo]

@@TheLastSoundNL Because it's no longer left wing, because of those very things.

[@cwg9238]

no society ever has or can ever exist that is "anti-hierarchical." its a whimsical fantasy. if acknowledging that makes one "right-wing" then so be it.

[@PostmortemVideo]

@@Theranthrope Neither of these are really left-wing. The Command Economy thing was fairly universal and not especially tied to any political wing post WWII, since war economies were command economies. Dear Leader is antithetical to left-wing philosophy.

[@majdjinn5042]

My biggest problem is Shoe apparently doesn't know a thing about marxism, which she admitted.

[@majdjinn5042]

@@Embarrassed4U It sounds like she rather listen to what they say they are and didn't look further than that.

[@afuzzycreature8387]

its an emotional appeal for her

[@sandakureva]

That's most BreadTubers. For as much as "read theory" has become a meme among them, most of them haven't read much theory themselves.

[@Theranthrope]

She needs a Marxist boyfriend to explain it to her. Any takers?

[@subj3ctt0chang3]

There are plenty of people who don’t know the ideology that they represent even though they have been conditioned to defend and progress said ideology - like black people who demand more government benefits ad infinitum.

[@shplorf1977]

Of course the Canadian is the mediator between the Yankee and the Brit

[@TGNXAR]

I suddenly heard the South Park Movie song "Blame Canada" in my head. Why?

[@woodwyrm]

lmao

[@zyxluz4645]

Better than an Irish or a Scot.

[@kiritosenpai1501]

yeah its a shitty job but someone has to do it

[@kailaine3974]

@@TGNXAR lmao same

[@AkkadDaily]

According to the political compass chart you showed, Dev, I am even more centrist than I was before.

[@spitxfire99]

Shoe is on her way to becoming a full blown commie grifter, quite sad to behold...

[@EnigmacTheFirst]

The Eternal Centrist

[@BigVorst]

Exactly.

[@BigVorst]

@@spitxfire99 True, it's hard to watch.

[@myheartspits]

And I think I have seen you admit that you've moved towards the right. But I think I've also heard you say you're roughly where you were before.

[@alorem123]

Honestly a shift from being a centrist to being a different shade of centrist is a much less important shift than going from being a centrist to a radical.

[@leafy_cynical6732]

True Sargon just moved to a different quadtrant and still not that far from the center

[@jchoneandonly]

Yeah. Sargon is still a centrist

[@alexyguadalupe3456]

Shift into anti centrist

[@Temuldjin]

@@leafy_cynical6732 he is clearly still a centrist, and not a conservative as Dev claims in this video.

[@MathisNotGreat]

it's almost meaningless compared to moving further in one direction. There isn't even a comparison. Dev's absolute refusal to recognize the inherent issues within left wing of thought is absolutely infuriating. Everything we've seen throughout western history points out that a state nannying it's citizens leads to massive cultural and economic issues.

[@ajl8975]

Carl is now an awful lot closer to the centre than shoe is.

[@corenlavolpe6143]

He's still a centrist. June went further left. Saying that Carl didn't change AT ALL is wrong, but he IS still reasonably a centrist.

[@Theranthrope]

Everyone to the Right of Stalin is a Far-Right Nazi.

[@sandakureva]

Essentially. If anything, Carl has become more moderate while June has become more radical.

[@AsyL71]

@@sandakureva he's certainly become more mature and moderate compared to a few years ago Carl is a lot more chill and reasonable.

[@KopitioBozynski]

@@AsyL71 children and age will do that to you

[@knowledgeablebro6970]

So basically Sargon is right about shoe being far-left and she's wrong about him being far-right.. ok!

[@Temuldjin]

this comment nailed this whole video.

[@Leon_Sullivan]

Exactly.

[@KopitioBozynski]

Basically, yeah 100%.

[@theaverageDon]

Pretty much

[@RilsR]

Sargon is wrong about the assumptions that people understand what he's talking about, and he's wrong about still just liberal and not conservative.

[@Temuldjin]

If Shoe isn't far left, then she is skirting right up at the edge of being one.

[@khululyp]

@Emiscary1 Maybe she can still be saved...

[@darthsonic4135]

That is, in fact, exactly what she is. On the edge, with only her anti-wokeism keeping her there. And I doubt that will last much longer.

[@tiagoalmeida6857]

@Emiscary1 commitment. More like Commitern

[@darthsonic4135]

@George Gee “Unmen” Well, that’s a new one.

[@MALICEM12]

@@khululyp no

[@Leon_Sullivan]

Those political compass results at the beginning tell me most of what I need to know. Sargon still fits within the Overton window, while Shoe has gone way outside of it. She's entered tankie -in-denial territory, and the fact that Shoe thinks Sargon is FAR-right, not merely center-right, shows either a genuine lack of understanding of both her own, and Sargon's positions, or intellectual dishonesty.

[@tuskinradar8688]

Tbf fairly sure tankie land is the red corner not the deep green, but then all the hard left eventually results in Tankie so whatevs, other than that yeah on point.

[@SvendleBerries]

Yeah, people like Shoe from what Ive seen are just a result of seeing the right (and therefore any ideas that even remotely resemble the right or people that agree/defend with the right) as wrong and bad just because its "the right". Even if its a good idea and obviously the correct thing to do, they cant agree with it because "eww, cooties". Its the same thing with people who have Trump Derangement Syndrome.

[@tkaine7983]

@@tuskinradar8688 The radical libleft is a joke of an ideological position. At least Ancaps, as retarded as they are, provide a model that hypothetically constitutes a society. Ancoms are either future Stalinists or failures waiting to happen. Actually, considering Andy Ngo's Twitter feed, Antifa, made up of people who'd probably put themselves on libleft, is made up of all the dregs of society. So rather than failures waiting to happen, just continuous, unending failure.

[@tuskinradar8688]

@@tkaine7983 pretty well put.

[@thesmilinggun-knight9646]

I think the former is more likely

[@PortlyPete]

the entire problem is that shoe wants to redefine socialism

[@EdgarFriendlysCivicsTeacher]

It's easier than understanding it, I guess.

[@alexanerose4820]

Isn't there such a thing called change? That and socialism kinda works so I don't know what you're on about

[@EdgarFriendlysCivicsTeacher]

@@alexanerose4820 kinda works? I might agree depending on which elements.

[@crinsombone5380]

@@alexanerose4820 Then why call it socialism at that point?

[@Fucccunt]

But devo is a 100% Canadian

[@Fucccunt]

And dumb

[@conorkerlin5928]

@@Fucccunt redundant

[@BrandiPrime]

A Fucking Leaf

[@dkosmari]

I hope he gets better.

[@vicgc96]

Trevor Phillips to Bear Hugger? From eh to monsieur?

[@octapodes1132]

1:40 Not really. The beauty of it being a graph is we can calculate how far the shift is. Basic geometry: Sargon shifts 3 right 1 up. Creating a 3-1 right triangle with a hypotenuse of roughly 3.16 units squared. Shoe shifts 3 units left and 3 units down. Creating a 3-3 right triangle with a hypotenuse of roughly 4.24 units squared. In other words Shoe moved approximately 34% more than Sargon did. (Not to mention she moved AWAY from center)

[@Hirome_Satou]

If anything, Sargon is closer to the center now than he was before, and Shoe is only further away.

[@absolutelyyousless7605]

@Kunth Nah, he’s trying to find a method in this madness.

[@zyxluz4645]

@@absolutelyyousless7605 it's 2020 there is no method. Only MaDNEsS.

[@CountArtha]

You're giving the quiz too much credit. It's not very scientific, so your placement on the grid can change quite a bit based on how you answer some of the more weasel-worded questions. I take it three or four times a year and I routinely move three or four squares left and right.

[@davetdowell]

"... we can calculate how far the shift is"... No "we" can't. You can, but for me to be able to I'd have to have done a hell of a lot better in my maths exam, than I did.

[@Smilomaniac]

I have extreme doubts as to how liberal shoe is - She seems very keen on deciding where the money of others should be spent. She’s behaving like a far left loon and her political compass does not reflect it.

[@blizzardregulus]

Technically, you can, but Liberal Communists are retards who never once sat down to have a hard think about their principles. If they did, they'd very quickly realize that one set of values is running contrary to the other. It's the sunshine and rainbows party, and that childish mentality describes Shoe exactly.

[@Seth9809]

The fact that you think anyone a tiny bit liberal is far left and super evil, when like 100% of the US embraced things way further to the left during the boomer Era is really telling. Your fucking grandparents are more liberal than you are.

[@brandowhitemusic]

@@blizzardregulus Libertarian leftists believe that everyone will someday want to give their rights, labor, and possessions away. Authoritarian leftists know that these things can only be taken by force.

[@theALTF4]

shes jsut a sack of insecurities ideology-jumping to wich think current makes her looks less stupid... th skeptic comunity is just so...toxic nowadays

[@Xplora213]

@@theALTF4 maybe it just had time to show itself or grow out of it... Sargon is very much seeing the benefit of Christian society, in the same way Dawkins does as well. Their problem with religion is not the faith but the psychotic behaviour that comes with it - but given enough life experience you can realise that it’s not religion but the people abusing it that is the issue. Leftism would be fine except that you want my daughter to reject her carefully considered upbringing because you want to have lesbian sex with her. Christians are fine when they aren’t Ulster or Westboro etc. People do some dumb shit. Skeptics on the left just think it is the identity groups that cause it. They don’t have enough friends in weird places to see it happens everywhere. 😂

[@stormtroopavk81]

lmao shoe is not more libertarian.

[@boogie1434]

The “libertarian” left was always a meme

[@squidheadss7105]

The libertarian-authoritian split on the left is illusory. The authoritarian and libertarian right work towards radically different ends, while the difference between the libertarian and authoritarian left is that one thinks that they can be nice about it when they steal people's property.

[@MrHejke]

Never was, stop inflating this word

[@cornpop7521]

Libertarian left works on the idea that people would be willing to give up their property and rights. Authoritarian left is the realization that libertarian doesn't work on a massive amount of the population. If you take out the human nature out of the equation libertarian left can work, however, in reality, it just can't work. Far-left will always be authoritarian, far-right will always become authoritarian, the only libertarian will be right of center. That's using the right is capitalistic and left is socialistic and the social policies that come with those ideals.

[@Seth9809]

@Yuki Yuki She opposes those now, you're a moron.

[@EdgarFriendlysCivicsTeacher]

"they think socialism is authoritarian... Um... And it's not" Well I'm convinced.

[@joshuarichardson6529]

"I'm a murderer, but I don't believe in killing people." Why does Shoe want to be a Vegetarian Cannibal?

[@EdgarFriendlysCivicsTeacher]

@@joshuarichardson6529 who fucking knows, I think she's a nice enough person though. A bit self involved and not a deep thinker, but I don't think she's a full throated hateful type - there's just people she *knows* she's better than.

[@Seth9809]

You do understand that socialism spent decades being the most libertarian anti-state thing in the world right? You know Anarchy? That was what socialism was for a very very long time.

[@EdgarFriendlysCivicsTeacher]

@@Seth9809 I wonder what about it lends itself so well to violent authoritarians. My comment was only to lampoon her complete lack of evidence. If it's not authoritarian then she'd have no problem demonstrating it "Um... It's not" just isn't particularly convincing.

[@NeflewitzInc]

Shoe is so incredibly low information that it astounds me that she makes the comments that she does.

[@Seth9809]

Most of the people in this chat think that 50% of political opinions or more are communism. Is that high information?

[@CountArtha]

@@Seth9809 Just 50 percent of political opinions that come up on channels like these.

[@rolandrush5172]

Shoe’s historical and ideological ignorance hurts my brain. And her spewing with such confidence gives a unique feeling..

[@Fridaey13txhOktober]

She's a plebe out of her depth!

[@tyllarium]

Real late reply here, but I used to watch her for the comedy aspect of her channel, but immediately lost all respect for her political takes when she revealed that she didn’t even know the names of any “flyover” states and even thought Michigan was two separate states.

[@InquisitorShepard]

Idk, her hell world series is pretty fucking funny.

[@danagray9709]

The feeling is called "arousal" and it has nothing to do with her "spewing" (probably).

[@edwoodsr]

June's got the smarts but lacks the initiative to delve into the theories. Many people are confident in their solutions and don't feel the need to investigate.

[@OfirMusic]

But Sargon moved to the centre while Shoe is now a far-leftist.

[@shplorf1977]

Centrist =/= Correct. Moving is still moving.

[@Hirome_Satou]

@@shplorf1977 Centrist is more correct than any kind of extreme position, what are you talking about? A centrist understands the need for compromise to work towards a better future, extremists demand compliance to their ideology.

[@shplorf1977]

@@Hirome_Satou That's an opinion. Saying you're correct is just hubris. I agree with what you are saying in regards to Centrist ideological outcome but implying Centrism is this perfect ideology isn't fact. It may be balanced has nothing to do with implementation and outcome and sometimes the scales need to be tipped in a direction to achieve that outcome.

[@OfirMusic]

@@shplorf1977 Some moves are better.

[@woodwyrm]

@@OfirMusic unironically yes.

[@zebulon220]

When Sargon says liberal he is refering to the British conception of liberal. Not the American conception of liberal. John stuart mill on liberity would probably be considered right wing nowadays.

[@Fridaey13txhOktober]

Believing in the egg but not the chicken.

[@Seth9809]

British liberals are way more to the left than 99% of the people in this comment section.

[@xXSCDTXx]

@@Seth9809 I think OP said British he/she meant Classical.

[@Hirome_Satou]

Does Sargon say he's stayed the same? I don't think he does, I've heard him say several times that he's changed some. If anything he says he's still in the center, which according to that political compass, IS true, whereas Shoe has moved far away from the center.

[@ffantomorph7708]

He did say it, but it was circumstantial. It is clear he has moved in the compass, but the general context was that he hasn't abandoned his core liberalist viewpoints of individual freedom and responsibility.

[@sarphog]

He said he didn't change his core principles, which he hasn't, bar maybe his opinions on religion, which he wasn't vocal about on youtube anyway

[@terminsane]

he said he's "basically" stayed the same. and its true.

[@SeruraRenge11]

@@jackdaone6469 Sargon with his video format and success created Vaush and I don't know if he realizes it, but it's so clear that Vaush just copied what made Sargon work and applied it to his own politics. So it's funny seeing Carl getting mad at a monster of his own creation because Vaush really is just the socialist Sargon.

[@LuciusC]

​@@SeruraRenge11 You know what's sad? Vaush copied Sargon before he was forced to change. Vaush can still get away with insulting people all day long in a way that would get anyone who's to the right of Stalin instabanned for so-called "harassment" You say Sargon created Vaush, but in a fair world Vaush's lying, racebaiting ass would be launched into the sun. There wouldn't be anything to get mad about if the rules were applied evenly.

[@NoirRival]

so basically Shoe became a communist apologies, Sargon was right got it

[@GURGLEGUY12345]

I know that picture.

[@NoirRival]

@@GURGLEGUY12345 uh oh :: hides ::

[@NoirRival]

@Craig Xyou know when they say a politician can talk a lot and say absolutely Nothing. you pretty much just did that. but ok? lol

[@BQD_Central]

Why is it always when someone says „got it“ that everything before was made up bs?

[@alicemalice2597]

@F Correct. She’s exactly the kind of ‘useful idiot’ that Yuri Bezmenov warned would be “lined up against the wall and shot” come revolution.

[@TheNSJaws]

So one remained a centrist and the other actually became a radical? 'Cause that's what that graph shows. Edit: > Shows a graph in which conservative is clearly in the authoritarian right area > Prior to that, shows Sargon to be in lib right > Calls him conservative anyways What the actual fuck Dev. You're straight up lying in your own video man. And if you didn't agree with the graph, why include it?

[@untamedpandasweg8986]

Nick I think being in such a safe quiet place has made Dev dumb. Needs more danger to cause adrenaline release. I think it increases mental performance greatly.

[@TheNSJaws]

@@untamedpandasweg8986 I suppose, I'm just not ok with this dumb relativistic bullshit. Like, sure, they moved a similar amount, but why discount the direction in which they've moved, then? 'Cause we're talking a 2D vector space here, and that shit's pretty important. Just seems like willful ignorance for whatever reason he might have, honestly.

[@cyberninjazero5659]

@@TheNSJaws Dev was never the brightest bulb he's always been a "This degeneracy is ok but THAT one is too far/It's OK when liberals do it" type of progressive driving the speed limit. Just watch his video on RBG to see his low IQ takes on Roe V. Wade being good because he's a pro-abortion degenerate

[@SoulTransient]

Well from what I've seen through his videos he has become more socially conservative. But that's cool because that's how I am

[@TheNSJaws]

@@SoulTransient My comment/reply got eaten by a YT algorithm even tho it didn't have any offensive words in it as far as I know, so imma keep this brief. There's a difference between being conservative and being more conservative. Being more conservative is a comparative statement that doesn't indicate final destination, but rather a direction you're moving in. As said in the video, 20 years ago Dev became (way) more conservative from where he was. That doesn't mean that he is a conservative when you see where he's at right now. Same applies to Sarg'n. I'm not complaining that Sargon is more conservative than he was, I'm complaining because Dev is seemingly deliberately mischaracterizing his political stance, even according to his own graphs.

[@marcusbergman6116]

I am so thankful I've found your channel. It's like an oasis of unironically based, centrist content in a world of chaos

[@weefy117]

No hate on shoe, but she doesnt strike me as more libertarian, especially since she would want "free" healthcare. That requires a larger government, not a smaller one, so i seriously doubt she wants less government involvement then sargon does.

[@weefy117]

@@Embarrassed4U I think dev needed to call that out then. Im subbed to both, but its very obvious that sargon hasnt shifted anywhere near as much as she has

[@leafy_cynical6732]

True also doctors have to perform the healthcare so if healthcare is free where is the money for the doctors gonna come from and what if the doctor refuses to work

[@Theranthrope]

I don't hate Sh0e, I pity her. She legit seems rudderless without a strong man in her life and thus she's falling in with a bad (political) crowd.

[@AAArnold]

You do know that social liberty is a thing that isn't necessarily dependent on "muh small government"? In theory, a stronger Government could even be beneficial to social liberty. Many people forget that _other people_ can be just as detrimental to personal liberty as the government can be. You need an institution that is capable of fighting that, namely the government. Therefore, smaller government doesn't always equate more liberty and vice versa. It's all a question of balance. The U.S. government isn't doing that great of a job at protecting their citizens' liberty from each other, that's why Shoe can argue in favour of a stronger government. As for "'free' healthcare" as you call it, it's really just _healthcare._ Basically all non shithole governments (even the U.S.) do the same already for other things. Most things the government does is more or less equally useful to everyone (like building roads), how much you benefit from government action is independent of how much taxes you pay. It'd be the exact same with healthcare. Everybody pays insurance according to their wealth, everybody get's treatment if they need it. It's really just the question of whether you want it to be possible in your country for someone to have their livelihoods destroyed because healthcare is being provided by the free market.

[@weefy117]

@@AAArnold show me one example where increasing government power resulted in more liberty for the people. Secondly, free healthcare is different then free roads for many different reasons. The most important one being that I am not responsible for your poor health, so it's immoral to force me to pay for a fat fucks liposuction.

[@Shaitan649]

If you want to claim sargon is wrong you need sources (a picture of a beard more glorious than his

[@zyxluz4645]

Oh so we need a picture of Santa Claus

[@SeruraRenge11]

The guy who sculpted his beard into the shape of a windmill. Checkmate.

[@Texasp12]

No, you're wrong!

[@hanyuukawaiinanodesu]

No, I'm wrong!

[@crusaderking8277]

No, we're all wrong!

[@dalek--ck9oy]

Personally I blame Obama

[@Ahmenthi]

I wish the definition of "wrong" would stop changing. :(

[@JeffNeelzebub]

@@dalek--ck9oy Thanks, Obama!

[@BenjaminBadbrother]

Shoe seems genuinely hurt and upset. Still wrong though. Denounce and disavow.

[@pubcle]

I'm reflecting on how Sh0e has gotten where she is now, where she's among the tankies and yet hated by them. It's a pretty sad thing watching her deteriorate and reject a major portion of her audience. I left her channel many years ago when she showed outright hatred of people such as myself, who are more traditionalist, as a concept and principle. It's a greek tragedy, driven by her own decisions and actions but still terrible to see.

[@Justmonika6969]

​@@pubcle Sh0e is a weird case. I never got the vibe that she was evil from her nor did I ever consider that she was even a far leftist until I actually sat down and listened to her views. From my experiences many years ago following her channel, she seemed like a pretty centrist KZbinr with left leanings, who ultimately was anti-woke. This makes her based in my eyes but at the same time she carries a strong grudge against the right that makes me question whether or not she will remain reasonable at all.

[@Econ1991]

I would say Sargon doesn't always get his point across fully if you only know him from one encounter compared to if you've known him for a long time. He hasn't changed much just become more of a realist as if you live here in the UK, you know how BAD it has gotten here and our only major win recently was getting out of the EU. Shoe has definitely shifted, not part of social media so not clued up on her life only videos on her main channel but something has happened that has caused her to want to shift her opinions and views that has led her dangerously on the path of infringing on personal property. Would say 2020 has been the main shift of us all as after this year, who hasn't changed opinion on something.

[@feliperisseto9113]

Something i really admire about Sargon is that he doesn't give a fuck about how people will react to what he has to say.

[@pinkgnomie1325]

I came here to basically say this. The only reason Sargon comes across as conservative is because his culture is facing being wiped out currently. His stances haven't changed, but his focus on them has changed from, "They are what they are and this is why they're correct," to, "My stances are the traditions of our culture and are just as worthy of existing as anyone else's; why can't they exist in the land in which they originated?" That is technically conserving them, but he is not a conservative.

[@Fridaey13txhOktober]

​@Alexander Scales The Polish people's republic always kept the Polish identity, unlike what happened in the west. Unlike what the recent Pro-EU candidate wanted.

[@oldtimergaming9514]

@Econ1991, All the crap from the left in the last couple of years would make me press the button to wipe everything out just to remove the smug looks off of their faces. 'And when we go, nature will start over. With the bees, probably.' - Professor Falken

[@afuzzycreature8387]

sargon is not a conservative as that would shift the definition of conservative to the left

[@jayasuryangoral-maanyan3901]

he's a liberal conservative otherwise known as burkean conservatism.

[@Deatheater4444]

@@jayasuryangoral-maanyan3901 He's a basic bitch liberal.

[@TheLastSoundNL]

You should listen more closely to his arguments for tradition, virtue and moral intuition arguments. They almost align perfectly with religious conservatives. He is a conservative.

[@jayasuryangoral-maanyan3901]

@@Deatheater4444 Dude, do you know what a liberal conservative is?

[@juicyd9233]

A lot of these political compass discussions feels more like Facebook personality tests more than something actually productive

[@YizzTheEunuch]

They've both changed. AssUpHead has gotten crazier while Carlgon of a Sad has become slightly more based and realistic.

[@YizzTheEunuch]

@Qwerty Bastard I see people use the word based unironically all the time, what are you saying?

[@fujifilm5127]

Losing his job at Applebees hurt him hard.

[@keithfilibeck2390]

she didn't change or get crazier, its worse, she's liquid, shes nothing, she's a mirror, she'll become whatever to appease whoever she sees as her dominate, her daddy standin, and right now, thats Vaush, but it'll be someone else later in life, and she will ardently become their proxy.

[@justiceforjoggers2897]

@Qwerty Bastard Imagine using a current year argument on current year words

[@YizzTheEunuch]

@@keithfilibeck2390 Hmmm *nods and thinks*

[@tuskinradar8688]

Sargon may be being messy/reductive w his language, but he is a Conservative/Classical Liberal, and like you said yourself, The various flavors of leftists inevitably become totalitarian, contrary to Shoes conception. Sargon gud Shoe bad oogabooga.

[@Lodatzor]

*"The various flavors of leftists inevitably become totalitarian,"* No they don't, and this is just some garbage that you're throwing together to try and sound smart. Was Teddy Roosevelt a totalitarian when he founded the Progressive Party and pushed for anti-trust laws to break up the monopolies? Was FDR a totalitarian when he founded Social Security? Were the Kennedy's totalitarian? Your problem is that you grew up in America, where no-one knows what the fuck they are talking about when it comes to the left-right paradigm.

[@GonnaDieNever]

@@Lodatzor None of those individuals operated on the modern left-right paradigm. All are closer to Trump-era conservatism than modern Left, because by nature Conservatism tends to cherry pick the ideas of the past. The political compass is moronic.

[@k_tess]

@@GonnaDieNever "Conservativism is just progressivism driving the speed limit"

[@GonnaDieNever]

@@k_tess Not really, it's more akin to a long term cherry picking of good historical ideas to add into a mesh of compromised ideologies.

[@k_tess]

@@GonnaDieNever Yeah I am aware of that. A ceaseless search for what works, while discarding what. Example: Gay marriage. However if you start looking into Moldbug or Michael Malice, they describe a leftwing idea as something that "increases societal entropy", and a rightwing idea not as something that decreases societal entropy, but as an idea that preserves ideas that increase entropy, but don't lead to societal collapse. Example: The ever increasing number of gay conservatives.

[@someguycalledcerberus9805]

Imho, Sargon has been becoming more trad-con, primarily on the issue of sex and gender. And I don't think this is because of daily politics but is a common result of aging and having responsibilities and children.

[@HeavyMetalorRockfan9]

See I think a lot of people get mixed up here (just like on the flag burning) for Sargon. He doesn't want to make the things he believes are good law, but he wants to see these moral philosophies promoted in the face of the intoxicating hedonism-nihilism combo that removes a moral framework from underneath society. He seems to me to be less politically concerned and more culturally concerned, and sees traditionalism as something that has worked in the past, and sees current society as working less. Its true that the traditionalist framework creates 'marginalized' groups, but if it works for 95%+ of the population thats pretty damn good, and hell, the modern conception of traditionalism through the nostalgic-purity spiraling looking glass back into history loses a bunch of the nuance IN traditional social dynamics that make being a 'marginalized' person (those not catered to by the system) not actually as egregious as we've largely been led to believe. For example, gay people feature prominently in history and most of them were not persecuted for their sexuality (especially if it was kept private, obviously people knew but they simply would not talk about it). It appears to me that it was really in the wake of the second world war and the threat of communism that religiosity began to player a larger and larger factor in the every day lives of people in America resulting in more of the persecution we have come to associate with traditionalism. It's the same with unconventional family structures - the nuclear family was really an apparition of the golden era of America following WWII, mutligenerational families were common, and living spaces were shared in relatively tight quarters.

[@Fridaey13txhOktober]

@@HeavyMetalorRockfan9 "Traditionalism" doesn't have the solutions, the Turner Diaries and Hunter by Kevin McDonald does.

[@Fridaey13txhOktober]

*Wrong!* Its waaay more "safe" than race. Simple as.

[@onefellow8635]

I stopped watching ShoeOnHead a year or two ago. She simply was too close-minded and stubborn for me to watch with enjoyment.

[@Seth9809]

Have you asked yourself if maybe you're projecting? >Shoe has changed a lot >Shoe is mapipualted by every random man she meets >Shoe doesn't change her mind, she is closed minded. Sure...

[@onefellow8635]

@@Seth9809 Indeed I have, and it may well be the case for certain topics (although that is something for in-depth discussion). Being close-minded towards one side of arguments but not the other side CAN cause someone to shift in position while still being close-minded. It really depends on the person both giving the arguments and the person receiving the arguments. If Shoe's left-wing political sympathies caused her to develop resentment towards the right-wing of politics, then it is natural she would shift leftward on the political compass. Alternatively, if she hasn't heard persuasive enough arguments from the right-wing (either through herself, her connections, or because the arguments themselves are weak) then she may discard ideas on that simple basis. I know I dismiss flat-earthers out-of-hand because I haven't heard persuasive enough arguments from them (also the mountain of evidence that contradicts them). To be honest, it was mostly my distaste of her incivility on a particular topic that spurred me to stop watching her completely. I had been gradually reducing the amount I watched from her for a few months before that instance because I didn't agree with the direction she was going.

[@SomeGuyHowGoesIt]

@@onefellow8635 Don't worry, that Tevo guy is fervently replying to every other big comment in an attempt to defend Shoe.

[@phantom8926]

@@SomeGuyHowGoesIt so a white knight

[@solan7978]

@@phantom8926 Actually more like Mony Python's Black Knight, I would say.

[@Nueamien]

The ways Sargon is "wrong" are orders of magnitude less serious than Shoe.

[@simlucien]

Sargon is a Classical Liberal, not a conservative.

[@MTFOphantom]

People mixing those two up has become an increasingly more common trend as of the last few years.

[@primethread]

I specifically remember Carl stating that conservatives are a sub-sect of classical liberals, and that they are not conflictory.

[@10011110011]

He tries to conserve the classical liberal ideas. We live in wierd times.

[@woodwyrm]

But to anyone left of center(at least nowadays), claiming to be a centrist is basically admitting to be a right wing-apologist in disguise.

[@MTFOphantom]

@@woodwyrm Making generalizations is stupid bro. Its not as simple as that. People's beliefs are so much more complex then that. "Right wing apologist" what a joke

[@MrSageyman]

I was watching this and wondering why Dev was talking to Sargon in a more direct way through this video, while Shoe got a more analytic view. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems more like maybe Dev considers Sargon more likely to listen to the points and take them under consideration? Or maybe I'm reading too deep. Everyone take care and be chill, no matter what the colourful square tells us, we're all people in the same boat. Let's not set it on fire just to keep ourselves warm in the rain.

[@linuxatheist5361]

Sargon and Dev are also friends and he knows Sargon will watch and consider what he says, if only for that reason.

[@cutletofcthulhu8079]

THIS. I had the same analysis of this. I don't think you're at all off point. Bravo.

[@pinkgnomie1325]

I noticed that as well. I found it a little annoying, but maybe you're right that Sargon will actually take some of the criticism to heart and work out better quality content. This could be useful going forward, especially if his own company is ever going to take off.

[@cutletofcthulhu8079]

@Alexzander Browder Shoe blocks people PERIOD. I'm going on TWICE.

[@cutletofcthulhu8079]

@Alexzander Browder I got blocked by her for pointing out she lived in an area of NY that would NEVER see rioting, looting, or violence.

[@0ld_Scratch]

”HaHa I owned you!“ - Dixiecrat

[@slashbash1347]

You're my favorite middle-of-the-road KZbinr. The reason I like Sargon is because while his views might've changed, he's still a man who has principles, regardless of what he believed. In fact, over the course of his KZbinr career, he's gotten significantly less mean. I was never a big fan of Shoe so I can't judge her, though her company with Vaush does make me raise an eyebrow.

[@jayasuryangoral-maanyan3901]

this is pretty much exactly how I feel honestly

[@slashbash1347]

@Craig X Calm your tits.

[@PanagiotisPolitis-bl9xj]

I am a fan of shoeonhead because she is correct sometimes but I pass all of her opinions through a very thorough filter, more than other KZbinrs

[@orenalbertmeisel3127]

Sargon isn’t far-right, but he’s become more mainstream conservative compared to where he was 5 years ago

[@Temuldjin]

Sargon is more basic bitch center-right than "conservative" though.

[@Theranthrope]

He's a centrist extremist. Damm those fence-shitting terrorists.

[@RedDeadUndead1]

@@Theranthrope We must put a stop to Sargoy Al-Applebee's reign of terror

[@Leon_Sullivan]

@@Theranthrope Shitting out a fence sounds like hell.

[@blacktigerpaw1]

Still tanked all of Farage's work regarding UKIP.

[@philagelio336]

Did anyone see Dr Jordan Peterson’s update video?

[@wind_traveler]

It’s great to see he’s doing better.

[@Livingvapour]

Imagine how the culture war would be if he never got sick. Thank god he’s doing well again. I hope he’s not to late to make more important impacts

[@DeAardappel]

He looks like he's fought like hell to be able to start working again. I hope he isn't straining himself too hard, I think he's necessary for the coming days.

[@Fridaey13txhOktober]

He's a gatekeeper, tho. Or at least was.

[@magistermilitum7283]

I did and I also watched that video he made with his daughter. Such a harrowing story, I'm just happy the man is still alive

[@Theranthrope]

"Both sides are wrong, also I'm smarter than both." I know how this works :^)

[@Theranthrope]

Disclaimer: This is joke. I hate how I have to say this.

[@ShortFatOtaku]

but its true

[@Theranthrope]

@Joe Ç He didn't put a joke disclaimer up so he must be 100% serious.

[@fronthal157]

Its clickbait.

[@joeyjojojrshabadoo7462]

You seriously are. Honestly think how dumb the average person is and then remember half people are dumber then that.

[@KuatPronunciations1860]

Let's just go full Starship Troopers. The book, not the movie.

[@dosdoomguy2285]

Based

[@simonbelmont0993]

I'm unironically in.

[@ImperialGuard322nd]

Let's do it.

[@TheJesterInYellow]

I'd take the movie too at this point.

[@theeccentrictripper3863]

I would like to know more

[@Irishcrossing]

oh man, the shoeonhead and sargon drama? Didn't know this was still a thing.

[@5thnovemberscrivener634]

Well now I do.

[@sandakureva]

I wasn't even aware of it, tbh.

[@TOUGHEYES]

I came to the same conclusion as Dev about last night when watching her stream. Their opinions are absolutely not ironclad, nor do their nations that they're situated in share the same exact context, so of course they'd differ. If anything, they need to appreciate the context of their differences more than just criticising each other over them. Sargon may need to look harder for the moderate left in America. And Shoe on the other hand should take the time to know just how bad communism is, because it's already played out in Europe and the USSR, and dozens of other places. She should look to her own country and see whose created the context for opportunistic rioters, and Anti-Fa to run rampant.

[@pinkgnomie1325]

@Dale Ritter Okay... She ever left the US? That was a huge part of the breakup with her and Skeptic was the distance.

[@Th0rn5555]

@Barry The Despoiler I guess your mother's opinion doesn't matter then

[@sarphog]

I just feel the strong need to point out that a centrist is still a centrist, regardless of which side you tilt towards. Plunging towards a tribe on the far side of either side of the spectrum makes you a radical. I *really* feel like this is an extremely important distinction, regardless of policy ideas

[@lincolnthedescription4503]

This is radical centrism my dude.

[@Seth9809]

People who thought it was okay to beat your wife, were centralist a hundred years ago, now those people are far right reactionaries. The fact you are ignoring this, is kinda telling.

[@lincolnthedescription4503]

@@Seth9809 When we go that far back, the already flawed scale of left/right is pretty meaningless. That's not actually how history was despite fashionable opinions.

[@squareyoyoer640]

You listen to code pandorum!?

[@sarphog]

@@squareyoyoer640 i listen to a lot of dogshit, pandorum included 👍

[@SconnerStudios]

You hit vaush on the nail. He never has substance just reactions.

[@yorozuya2898]

Dev shoe thinks that drag kids are hella nuanced.

[@AncestorEmpire1]

Shoe is as center as Magneto is a peaceful individual "I swear I had something for this"- Sterling "Duchess" Archer

[@AncestorEmpire1]

@Not Yourconcern who’s that?

[@latt.qcd9221]

Shoe: "People are just scared of Socialism and that's why they don't like it." I mean, given that it lead to 80+ million deaths, I think that fear is justified.

[@vaclavjebavy5118]

@@fivestarman5130 Considering the timeline and lifetime of socialism, that's still a pretty high kill count.

[@hardworkingf2p912]

Me living in a socialist country:I want to die and i don't know if my family is still alive

[@Fridaey13txhOktober]

@@vaclavjebavy5118 Either "socialism" doesn't work or "socialism" killed 110 millions but certainly not both!

[@Fridaey13txhOktober]

Muh 100 miljuns deds by commies is simply stupid, tho. Completely unrealistic propaganda for a war that never happened but would have without the Kennedy presidency. Find actual valid arguments against the actual ideology of Marxism and Anarchism, *it's not that hard!*

[@vaclavjebavy5118]

@@Fridaey13txhOktober You realize that if something fails, people die too? And that having a tyrannical government isn't exactly a success for a system?

[@enneract9]

Universal suffrage is actually a mistake, this is one place I'm with Sargon, for sure. Starship Troopers unironically had it right.

[@Eli-Green]

it's been right since Aristotle figured it out 2000 years ago

[@isaiahsmith7123]

Hear hear! I am all for trying some form of epistocracy.

[@Leon_Sullivan]

Absolutely correct. Only those who serve or have served the Republic should be citizens.

[@freetrial9535]

My opinion on that. You don't vote unless you contribute to taxes. Even if it's 1 dollar, you must have given the government money, to be able to vote on where that tax money goes.

[@Leon_Sullivan]

@@freetrial9535 That's more or less the system as it stands, given that taxation is compulsory and not elective. Once taxation becomes elective then it's just charity, and unless you set a minimum for what qualifies for voter eligibility the vast majority of people will just kick in a penny, and nothing will have adequate funding. Additionally, a minimum would only exclude the poorest part of the populace which would disproportionately favor the wealthier portions of society in turn, leading us to the class conflict that consumes the minds of the Left of modern politics. A service based citizenship model like starship troopers, or the roman republic and empire, gives equal opportunity to everyone regardless of background, and ingratiates the people serving the republic to the communities in which they serve.

[@SouthernGothicYT]

Sometimes I feel like a dumb th0t talking politics on the internet, and then I think of Shoe and feel better about myself

[@Seth9809]

You're dumber than she is, but okay.

[@boneman-calciumenjoyer8290]

@@Seth9809 Is it weird, that I can guess your political affiliation solely from the way you talk to others?

[@knight_lautrec_of_carim]

@@boneman-calciumenjoyer8290 take a guess, I'd like to know

[@boneman-calciumenjoyer8290]

@@knight_lautrec_of_carim so judging from my personal experience, he's probably somewhere in the centre-left field. My reasoning: centrists tend to have this "I've figured it all out and just need to teach you"-attitude which gets a bit worse, when people lean more left than right. He probably is more libertarian than authoritarian, for he just told her that she's dumber than Shoe. Did you notice that he didn't tell her to "shut up"? So that means he's not trying to suppress her right to speak. Therefore he's probably even pro 2A like many libertarians these days. I could be wrong of course, he could come back into this thread, just too tell me that he's a hard-core conservative with a blind hatred for every kind of firearm, except muskets and I might still believe him, but conservatives are usually a bit more pleasant, when you disagree with them.

[@knight_lautrec_of_carim]

@@boneman-calciumenjoyer8290 Interesting. In the meantime I clicked some other comments and that guy always was defending shoe aggressively, you might be right

[@MightyMerlin1]

Watching her try and form sentences around her completely misguided, misinformed, and conflicting opinions is like listening to nails on a chalkboard.

[@shortafroman4]

I'm only confused on one bit. "hierarchy is a necessary evil" on the right side. That confuses me if only because there's nothing evil about a hierarchy. It's just math and results, tbh. In every scenario, it just comes back to maths.

[@arkoa0000]

People tend to view hierarchies in a negative light I guess. We understand why we have leaders and we elect people who are good into certain roles above us. Doesnt mean a portion of people will like it especially more so if the people higher up in the hierarchy are incompetent assholes.

[@justiceforjoggers2897]

@@arkoa0000 So would that then mean hierarchies are only evil when they become incompetent and/or tyrannical, or does a hierarchy need to be corrupted from the start?

[@arkoa0000]

@@justiceforjoggers2897 It is more so the Hierarchy will have power and a monopoly on certain things like the use of force. We understand these systems might be needed but there is a risk that the system will eventually become corrupted or lazy if it is not kept under proper watch. If the system fails then we get shit like civil wars or revolutions popping up.

[@justiceforjoggers2897]

@@arkoa0000 I see, thank you for explaining that to me

[@AsyL71]

Hierarchies are natural and we as humans also chafe under hierarchy, the point is that some people keep striving for a strange world view where its either one or the other, when the truth is that they both have to exist and there must and always will be people who opose it, ideally we as a species just have to try and avoid going to far in either direction on that point, neither absolutism nor anarchy.

[@chrisdryer]

...You really talk about ShoeOnHead a lot... and she doesn't have good points.

[@cutletofcthulhu8079]

He doesn't talk about her or hold her to task enough. Count the time he spent talking to Sargon as opposed to even critiquing Shoe. HUGE difference.

[@chrisdryer]

@@cutletofcthulhu8079 - obviously he has a crush on her.

[@cutletofcthulhu8079]

@@chrisdryer No reason to insult the man. LOL. Naomi is much cooler than Shoe. I'd take her any day over June.

[@devilman2197]

german worker under nazi were relatively well treated. shoe comparing ''worker right'' with race theory is delutionnal, the Communist worker are the most oppressed people of the mordern society.

[@Sylentmana]

Shoe has gone far left. Sargon has gone more realistic and practical. Shoe is wrong. The only thing wrong Sargon has done in this case is waste time arguing with this child.

[@ShortFatOtaku]

she's 31

[@dragonflyerz4736]

@@ShortFatOtaku I think that actually highlights how immature she is.

[@SoulTransient]

@@ShortFatOtaku hahahaha no way

[@Sylentmana]

@@ShortFatOtaku I know her age but she clearly still thinks like a child.

[@chrissant6277]

​@@ShortFatOtaku Proves the point more lmfao

[@743Paladin]

This is the most centrist title I have ever seen.

[@Jay-qu2bc]

I know right? it's funny considering that this video isn't centrist at all (despite dev's posturing)

[@DragonFruitXVI]

When has sargon said recently he hasn't changed in his views?

[@fronthal157]

Nowhere, dev wants his gay clickbait.

[@CountArtha]

Sargon has definitely changed. He's much more redpilled on certain issues that used to distinguish the American right from the European right, like gun control.

[@fronthal157]

@@CountArtha his 'stated opinion' might change but his underlying principles have hardened, not shifted. He has always been one for home defense. He lauded the english peasantry for having longbows, and spoke at length about the merits of an armed populace to make the nobles fair-handed

[@DragonFruitXVI]

@@CountArtha I wasn't asking that. Don't answer a question I didn't ask please.

[@Ladondorf]

Shoe completely misunderstood a lot of Sargon's points and also doesn't understand his perspective on the wokeness. She thinks wokes are annoying bad-optics lolcows but that they're ultimately just dumb kids or pandering brands. She seems totally oblivious to legitimate woke ideology _(i.e. critical theory)_ as it manifests in academia and how it is seeping into culture.

[@thevocatiousunspeakables709]

Wow, I hope she is ok. She seems like she is legitimately losing her mind, and Im not just talking about the shift in political stance

[@Seth9809]

Anyone who is watching what is happening right now, should be losing their mind. It's another recession and a pandemic people.

[@brandowhitemusic]

@@Seth9809 People have kept their shit together in the face of worse things than the events of 2020. Just keep losing your mind as you've been told to do...

[@theALTF4]

me too... i stop listening to her since she started to loose sense and getting along the youknowwhats... now shes insufferable and unstable

[@chrissant6277]

​@@Seth9809 The biggest issues that came from 2020 were all brought there by mandatory lockdowns and the BLM riots.

[@MaverickhunterXZero]

The biggest problem is Shoe is swiftly abandoning the friends for year for back pats and clout by people that'll using her popularity to spread their dogma. Given a a few years, they'll drop her for a new sporty model and she'll inevitably try crawling back to anyone in her irrelevance. Sargon has tried to remain the same and still keep friendly with those back in 2014, except the ones that try to start crusades against him.

[@dannykeuerleber7419]

i blame armored skeptic, him dumping her for a younger model after a few years seems to be the pivot point.

[@RobzdaBlade]

I wish they didn't mess with your KZbin Channel. You actually give us Canadians a good name in regards to fair politics.

[@ShortFatOtaku]

thanks bandit keith!!

[@RobzdaBlade]

@@ShortFatOtaku In America. *Waves Canadian Flag*

[@TheButterscotchNinja]

Video up for less than a minute, already at 33% downvotes. WHEW LADS. Comment section will be fun.

[@ShortFatOtaku]

it's a lonely road, being correct.

[@shortafroman4]

@abc def except when you're not correct about being not correct about being n

[@TySoVm]

@@Embarrassed4U This is true. You don't see Sargon defending Fascism but you see Shoe defending Socialism.

[@TheButterscotchNinja]

@@P.Convenience but how would they even know that's what the video was after half a minute? Not that "continued obsessive simping" is an accurate description of Dev's content.

[@shortafroman4]

@@P.Convenience shoe is worth however much time Dev decides she is. And far more importantly: learn the definition of simping. Dev is slapping shoe around in this video for not knowing shit.

[@patbaitman3357]

1:29 Ah, I see Sh0e has been competing with Kiara who's queen of the bottom left.

[@fujifilm5127]

Watson is Ancap

[@angelj3928]

@Alexander Scales Wattson is obviously a radical centrist

[@Theranthrope]

The destroyer of rubbish-bins.

[@guitartruong3981]

This is absolutely the last comment I'd expect to find on a Dev video.

[@guitartruong3981]

@@angelj3928 I'm honestly clueless on the radical centrist meme. Care to clue me in?

[@GunterThePenguinHatesHugs]

I think Jordan Peterson once said, -That if two people, both near the centrer; one inclined slightly to the left, the other slightly inclined to the right, constantly argue over something they disagree on, then both parties delve deeper and deeper into their own political leaning in order to find validation and justification. This means they interact with people of their 'side' that not only validate them, but also introduce (and make them more susceptible to) more extreme believes of that side too? A political echo-chamber in other words breeds a stronger political bias.

[@matthewivy6857]

Dev, Sargon stated he's changed several times. What's dragged him rightward is his understanding of economics increasing. If you took the time to learn it too, you would drift as well

[@Kenfren]

@Joe Ç yeah, it really annoys me when Dev talks about economics, and everything he says is, at best, nonsensical

[@matthewivy6857]

@@jackdaone6469 sure, but I would say that is a result of his gradual slip rightward initially brought about by his econ knowledge. That and his kids. When you have a firmer grasp on baseline information, it tends to guide you toward something closer to the truth. No always, but mostly. It's why white nationalist are just socialists for white people. They start from an incorrect baseline. Dev does to. He understands the free market is a good, but not what makes it tick. If he studied or read up on human action, chances are he would gradually slip right

[@DeHerg]

"If you knew more/better, you would be where I am standing" Fuck off

[@matthewivy6857]

@@DeHerg don't think that's what I said. I said he'd drift as well, seeing as how that is usually what causes it. Stop being so defensive and emotional

[@DeHerg]

@@matthewivy6857 "When you have a firmer grasp on baseline information, it tends to guide you toward something closer to the truth." " If he studied or read up on human action, chances are he would gradually slip right"

[@tefikkaradaban9631]

no i would disagree dev on the they have shifted equally thing first the compass is more left than the 2014 one and secondly sargon is still a centrist(despite left or right)while shoe is on the way to become a radical

[@boogie1434]

Big brain centrists like dev try so hard to auto-balance reality to them, becoming a radical communist(shoe) is the same jump as going from center left to real centrism.

[@tefikkaradaban9631]

@Qwerty Bastard i would say its because of the compass mostly like sargon was doing one in a livestream a month ago and believing private property now takes you to the right(that shows how much todays left is corrupted with commies) and i believe if the compass was a true centrist one shoe would be far left

[@tefikkaradaban9631]

@Qwerty Bastard i mean if you cant see the writing on the wall then i got nothing to say to you friend

[@Seth9809]

@@boogie1434 She has the same positions as any major left political party in Europe or Canada or Mexico....

[@Janinex98]

my issue is shoe's straight embracing of marxists and marxist principles.

[@ringotheflamingo6900]

how is that an issue?

[@Seth9809]

So you're mad that she has done what half the world has done? You do understand we live in a world with trillion-dollar corporations that own congress, right? This is like living in Stalin's Russia and wondering why people are pushing so hard for "free enterprise" or whatever.

[@marinanguish9928]

9:15 Shoe should really read Marx's essay "On the Jewish Question", it reads like excerpts from Mein Kampf.

[@MrJoeyWheeler]

I find myself watching both of their channels less and less, though for different reasons. Sargon because at this point I am becoming far too defeatest about the future of my country and my culture's future, and his videos only help to remind me of what I already see on a weekly basis. Shoe because... well, in my view, she's simply gone insane.

[@FaolanHart]

God-damn I'm glad I found your channel. One of the most grounded KZbinrs I follow. Thanks for helping to make sense of the chaos.

[@mridul407]

what you call duty is how i define responsibility

[@sinistararies2975]

I think it's time people talking about these things started calling the Nazis what they were at the time.. not the word 'nazi' which is what they were called later on. It's time for people to face the truth, Dev.

[@user-sd6lg8lf5c]

Sargon became even more of a centrist. It’s shoe that shifted radically.

[@metroidman3893]

I just wish all my favorite youtubers would just get along :(

[@noaht5016]

"Theres no comparison to socialists and nazis!" You mean the national socialist German worker's party (NSDAP)?

[@dragonflyerz4736]

His political position is actually closer to classical liberalism than it is conservatism on the political compass.

[@ty2010]

The issue usually isn't burning a flag, it's theft, arson and general burning restrictions. That said, wasn't someone prosecuted for burning an LGBT flag as a hate crime? I bounced around their present positions when I was younger but settled into -1,-2 a long time ago, restrictions and freedoms can pretty much be equally abused. The safety net is needed yes, but it absolutely needs to be conditional, otherwise you're giving extra degrees of freedom to those that aren't helping others.

[@DrachonaTheWolf]

I've watched both of them for years, and I still agree with them both. What I've noticed, though, is that Shoe spent a lot of time talking about burgeoning authoritarians, but then she doesn't see the connection between authoritarian "woke shit" and potential totalitarianism. Maybe I'm crazy, but how can I not be concerned when the bedroom nonsense we used to laugh at is now mainstream? Movies and television parrot intersectionalist talking points. Regular people say "people of color" or "manspreading" without question. No question about putting "Black Lives Matter" on NBA courts. It may seem minor, but tomorrow it might not be. As someone who is left of center, living in LA, and working in entertainment, I'm telling you: most things of cultural and social importance are biased toward the left, and not in a good way. This year alone has established that you can do whatever you want - even kill people - as long as you have the right politics. I don't think that corporations genuinely support these ideas. I think it's just the cool, safe position to take, and they're capitalizing on it. Shoe seems to think that "woke shit" ends with stupid opinions and KZbin videos; that the ideology behind it doesn't logically lead to violence and death for those who fully apply it. I know I'm going on a bit, but this whole drama has shown me that, while I may not 100% agree with Sargon, I still agree with his reasoning and I get a useful perspective from him. Shoe still has a useful perspective, but she's changed in a way which could be more harmful. The primary distinction we need to make is between authoritarian and libertarian; do you value freedom over control or control over freedom? If you turn your back on any authoritarians, regardless of what their values are, then you will regret it. I guess time will tell. Hopefully getting past 2020 will clear some things up.

[@alouisschafer7212]

We live in crazy times... Its 2021 things are still nuts.

[@DrachonaTheWolf]

@@alouisschafer7212 Yeah, the only real hope I have is that this insanity ultimately can't survive contact with reality. Eventually, they're going to smack into that wall. The problem is: will that happen before or after a bunch of people are killed?

[@NZAnimeManga]

Sargon does not believe that he's not moved... He literally posted live political compass videos :')

[@chadam917]

When Sargon refers to himself as a liberal as I've understood it for awhile now, he means it as classical liberalism. Classical liberalism is pretty much center right to center left on the libertarian side. So, he'd still be liberal, just not a leftist liberal. Just my 2 cents

[@gothicpando]

Ah the "enlightened centrist" trope. Every guru needs to put down all the others...

[@Rhygenix]

Sargon the (Far-Right) Centrist

[@bandit6272]

Good to hear someone else who gets it, that socialism "requires" state/organizational violence to enact. It's baked in, which is why Anarcho-communism is an oxymoron.

[@keepinmahprivacy9754]

I love the little "he's considered an intellectual" dig about Chomsky :)

[@battlemode]

You shouldn't be using the political compass as any measure of anything: it's clearly semantically biased towards making people more left wing than they ought to be

[@anglianrider6184]

This is such a nice break from the usual internet critics, decent reasoned responses with well explained argumentation. Such a rarity these days. Great video dev, you got yourself a new sub

[@banerkz]

As a long time Sargon viewer, you have perfectly summed up my main criticisms of Sargon, I used to love how aproachable he was for first time viewers and people who didn't follow the culture war stuff, and now I feel like if you aren't a long time viewer or a person who has wartched a lot of his streams where he explains his beliefs, he just comes across so different and you can read in a lot of stuff into it.

[@TheDoct0rb]

Holy shit this video was insightful. How have I never seen any of your content before? Now I'm curious about the origin of the philosophy of hierarchy on the right and left.

[@mackprime6975]

Appreciate the Catherine: Full Body soundtrack in the background, regardless of politics and political science and all that, your taste in music is pristine.

[@enkidorado4187]

anyone remember when Computing Forever got in a spat with Sargon because he was too leftwing and seemed like a communist?

[@lincolnthedescription4503]

the days of Sargonism

[@NeutralGrounder]

Women have a care based morality system. Which is why you see Shoe sliding up and down with regards to her values. It's just based on feels if you get right down to it

[@Italian_Isaac_Clarke]

Can't wait for the ANCAP video. Merry Xman man!

[@jonathandrown6615]

The right has a space for compassion. We just don’t use it as a manipulation tactic to get elected.

[@Monkey-fv2km]

Yes but it’s evil compassion, just for making money! Or something along those lines.... according to middle class socialists.

[@Seth9809]

Believing anything new, foreign, or young is evil, is not compassion.

[@Mir0v0i]

@@Seth9809 Truth. If the right has a "space for compassion", they are damn good at hiding it

[@Cunnysmythe]

One of the best descriptions of woke politics I've heard. Could have done with more focus on Sh0e and her professed vs secret power levels though, she's not far off a communist, she just isn't confident & knowledgeable enough to advocate for it Expecting a Sargon/Dev stream soon

[@Seth9809]

I love how if you have a barely left position most free nations, you're somehow crazy and far left..

[@Cunnysmythe]

@@Seth9809 You're thinking of her professed position and I agree that it's reasonable - I live in in one of the countries you probably have in mind. But sh0e said in her Discord that she's really more or less a communist and is only pretending to be more moderate in public

[@Zer0Hour17]

As insane as Shoe has gotten, at least she still called out Cuties. More than I can say for a lot of the other people on her side.

[@remyllebeau77]

Yeah but as far as I know she really has toned down or eliminated the videos condemning the identity politics of the left and nonsense like the wage gap. Very sad to see.

[@Seth9809]

Blue Checkmarks on Twitter are not Liberals. People who read cards handed to them by whoever the fuck owns CNN now, are not liberals, they're employees.

[@JagenRay]

great breakdown; was waiting for a take on their little feud that covered all the inaccuracies of both and didn't just pick a side.

[@Rafael-xw8he]

I guess Shoe joined the Echoe Chamber

[@0ld_Scratch]

Ancap-Tankdriver here: we should force people to live and let live!

[@graemebennett7648]

Hey, Dev! I just want to say how much I appreciate you saying "I love you" at the end of your videos. I know because of how you behave in your videos and your politics that you really mean it to each and every viewer who decides to click on a video of yours. I'd rather not get super personal in the KZbin comment section😂 so suffice it to say that today it meant a little extra. I hope you have a great month and are able to get through this demonitization bs. I love you, too!

[@ShortFatOtaku]

thank you!!! a lot!!!

[@OGamelon]

Shart fart otaco is gay. Only a homesexual would say that he loves other men!!!

[@truwu8177]

@@ShortFatOtaku Marry me please

[@k9blazesensation]

You know I really like the back and forth with the 3 of you guys. It really seems like a discussion is going on instead of just baseless name calling.