Should Adventurer's Guilds Exist?

Adventurer's guilds are pretty ubiquitous in gaming and anime, but haven't made much of a mark in other forms of fantasy media. Today, I investigate whether the Adventurer's Guild Trope is historically justifiable, in terms of fantasy worldbuilding.
#worldbuilding #fantasy #dnd #ttrpg #anime
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[@Grungeon_Master]

Hi all! For everyone who's annoyed I didn't mention mercenary or free companies, I made a video that addresses that (and many criticisms of my most popular videos) Check it out here! kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHnYXqGNnbqZbdk

[@ChasePhifer-hj3wl]

17:10 Wouldn't guilds be more Akin to unions than business monopolies? The main difference would be that all in the field are represented by the guild, not just the "proletariat" Guilds seem to be for unions for contractors, similar to SAGAFTRA.

[@herobrinesblog]

You should do a video on work in a fantasy setting. Also, a small correction, ppl in the middle ages, both in europe and abroad, didnt work more hours than we do. They not only had more holidays, but the average work day was 4-6 hours with big breaks in the middle for eating.

[@xDrCo0lx]

I think adventurer's guilds would probably break down into more specific guilds, like a monster hunter's guild, and a dungeoneering guild. Knight orders would probably be what nobility would use for more official business, so an adventurer guild would probably be used for more anonymous work, black ops and the like.

[@_unknown123.]

Why do you need an adventurer's guild when you have an assassin's guild For anonymously work?

[@rsplayer2006]

Question is, how "Common" are dungeons that they need a guild for it? If a guild for it, honestly that founds like the world had a calamity a few times already.

[@rsplayer2006]

@@_unknown123. Difference in how guarded the target is and anonymity is going to drive the price up alot.

[@ghrondindustries5136]

But yeah also a Giant or a Dragon are probably best handled by full on military action, primarily run by the local lord's Knights... But you'd still higher the Adventurers Guild to write up your battle plans, sneak into the lair, and force the monster out into the open. A lord may even be *legally required* to involve the Guild. Because, as mentioned, Guilds don't take kindly to non-guild workers cutting into their profits. (And in such a dangerous profession, non-guild workers are probably monster chow anyway)

[@ghrondindustries5136]

​@@_unknown123.It takes a very particular type of society that would permit an "Assassin's Guild" to exist publicly as such, and if so they may *not* be as Black Ops as you think. The Morag Tong in Morrowind are a great example. Yeah, they're a federally sanctioned guild of hired assassins, but those protections only last as long as they can prove the honor and legality of the killing, which pretty much forces it to be a very public affair. So for actual Black Ops, you still want to fabricate a vampirism charge with a hefty donation to the local Ratcatchers.

[@Mochachocakon]

Ah yes, the Adventurers Guild. The first thing that gets completely forgotten about once the Adventurers find a plot hook.

[@DamnDaimen]

Until the guild sends some lads to break a few legs for unregulated questing, and unpaid guild dues.

[@neoqwerty]

@@DamnDaimen Ah yes also known as the "chaotic alignment shift for XP dispensers".

[@jasonv.5938]

​@@neoqwertynot chaotic if it's in the contract.

[@doomrider7]

This is what caught my attention with Undead Adventurer and Tensei Slime since the mechanics and structures of how the guild works and why people join made sense. They're basically all-purpose unions and in the case of Undead Adventurer, play MAJOR roles in the setting.

[@nameless_moon]

​​@@doomrider7How about Goblin Slayer (mangas and novels version ? Yes, there are more than one Goblin Slayer manga and novel.)

[@segevstormlord3713]

In most western games, the _tavern_ tends to do the job the "adventurer's guild" does in JApanese games and anime and the like. In fact, in a lot of anime, you'll note that the adventurer's guild building has a big lobby area with tables that have people drinking and eating at them, making it effectivley _still_ a tavern.

[@2MeterLP]

Many adventurers guilds probably grew out of taverns that were frequented by adventurers and made it official. Where would you go if you had a quest to post? To the tavern where all the adventurers hang out, of course! Throw the owner a coin so he hangs up your poster and youve basically got yourself an adventurers guild.

[@SusCalvin]

We used a caravanserai. It was an area outside the city wall where caravaneers and other wanderes were told to set up camp in a semi-organised fashion. Services that cater to these people sprung up around them. If you wanted to sign on sailors and guards and mule-drivers who had just mustered out this was the place to go. Vagrants staying on the city streets would get dumped out there or into the slums. People could stay there without having to apply for permanent residency. Nights are two weeks long on the Moon, and ship crews and caravans do not go outside when the moon-night falls. So on the Moon, these places would have to host people for a longer time, with more services. It was never a single tavern, but a small semi-permanent community. The most extreme city-state on the Moon was a city under a bubble-dome. They had built a port-caravanserai on a separate island with barracks banged out as cheap housing. No one was allowed to enter the dome so the "stranger's town" was a functionally independent suburb administrated by city magistrates and their official go-betweens.

[@realdragon]

I saw 1 anime where it was a tavern not adventurer's guild, it had adventurers drinking, eating, sleeping and it had job posters

[@segevstormlord3713]

@@realdragon It's noteworthy, too, that in a lot of anime, the "adventurer's guild" has a tavern-like section of tables where people eat and drink. So it might actually be that those "adventurer's guild" buildings grew out of taverns that shifted from catering to just anybody to having primarily adventurer clientele.

[@AzraelThanatos]

Most of them are more Inn than Tavern there, having a large hall for events would be a big thing and adventurers would likely be more itinerant than most other guilds baring certain trade guilds. So having rooms for members who are in the area for lodging works...and that would lead to food/drink being available. From the other end, several places, essentially, had bounty hunter guilds to license who could actively go after bounties and allowed the government to regulate how bounties were placed...which could be the same thing for adventurers.

[@AdorkableDaughterofNyx]

an Adventurer's Guild is Essentially inspired by 2 clear things i could identify 1. Regulated Organizations of Explorers, Archaeologists, Scribes, and Pathfinders. literally "this belongs in a museum" or "this culture must be preserved" 2. Mercenary Companies with Plausible Deniability. the Black Company is a Good Novel Example and well, said Mercenaries wouldn't publicly advertise their skillsets

[@blackflameenjoyer6557]

​@@jeremyrichard2722I think people don't look favourably on western adventurism because they did horrible things to the natives...

[@Karmasu_L]

Wagner PMC shaking down the Kremlin for fighting against the "evil monsters" in the western farmlands.

[@The_Custos]

And tax evasion

[@spritemon98]

Jackie!!!

[@demonic_myst4503]

Historical mercinery groups needed no deniability they were just used to bolster armies before a warnthey had a disadvantage in

[@erianle123547]

Adventurer guilds would basically just be mercenary orders, which did exist in our world. Need a dragon slain but don't want to risk the lives of your most loyal warriors? Hire out a mercenary order to do it for you.

[@WeirdTale]

Yep. I love that mindset that Mercenaries are used as Monster Hunter's because Knight Orders are tied to the state or the church and the knights are noblemen considered too valuable to be sent on sny suicide missions.

[@Gingerninja800]

only distinction i'd make maybe is that mercenaries may be bands/armies etc of people for warfare, policing or protection whereas adventurers gives me a vibe of more of a freelance individual rather than a group. I'm being pedantic though, I dont see a reason as to why mercenary groups wouldn't do both in fantasy settings

[@TheManofthecross]

@@WeirdTalethat and the men at arms details recruited from the population and trained in to service

[@benjaminthibieroz4155]

I actually think more of an organization that coordinates mercenary orders and connect them with clients, but the logic is here.

[@benjaminthibieroz4155]

@@WeirdTale Knight Orders hunting monsters would still make sense, but for more prestigious hunts that hold a sacred meaning and/or require a truly elite, well trained force. Think of Paladins orders dedicated to destroy undeads.

[@DCdabest]

I always just treat the "Adventurer's Guild" as more of a business association of various mercenary companies. A way to have an institution that helps co-ordinate market rates and settle disputes between companies that require mediation to avoid bloodshed or a breakdown in the wider system. Guilds are less about finding work or membership for the mercenaries and more about providing legal and business services.

[@komiks42]

It might also be a good way to have place to rest after long travel. The base of your company might be few days of travel away, but hey, ther is adventures guild in that city.

[@DCdabest]

@@komiks42 Yeah it can function as a company pit stop or the Guild maintains a room on perpetual lease in a nearby inn or hostel that the party can show proof of membership at and get the free room.

[@komiks42]

@@DCdabest Also source of information. You can rest, and get to know what might wait for you ahead.

[@iivin4233]

You're probably right. Real guilds did provide real trade services but I doubt mercenary commanders would be as open to have their tradework being directly controlled. But if there are a lot of companies of armed people around, potentially bumping heads in the wilderness, it makes sense to be a part of a league of companies that can keep small wars from breaking out. A medieval group transported to a fantasy world might make a guild because it is a type of organization they know. However, the middle ages in general might be a bad allegory for a fantasy world. It was a world web of competing laws and lawyers. It was the farthest thing from a wilderness. Though, if a dragon happened to land in the few acres of a county's common land where it was legal to hunt. The hunt for that dragon would look like a LARP, with some locals grazing their pigs thrown in.

[@DCdabest]

@@iivin4233 Yeah I run it more as a business association of "contractors". Which is what your average PCs are in most fantasy games. Lots of allied professions work for or associate with the Guild to support the various mercenary companies; big 100 man outfits and the small 5 to 6 person bands of player character hooligans alike. Guild membership comes with perks and is focused on helping you interface with the legal and practical side of running your "company". Need a contact for some adventuring gear? Guild has people it can find for you. Need some info on a destination? Guild has a map it can find you. Need legal advice on how to pay your taxes and avoid trouble with the law? Guild lawyers are a few extra gold peices away. Guild membership costs money; and as long as you stay in business then the Guild has paying members. Try and go solo and the Guild doesn't have to come break your legs; they'll simy out compete you because they've got everyone plugged into their services and Guild support makes you 100% more effective than operating alone.

[@lycandeadfall8542]

I currently have a dnd setting where the Adventurer's Guild is a fairly new thing. Magic, monsters, and adventuring have not always been things that existed in this setting until a calamity occurred. With the strongest governments of the world being terrified of these god-like beings, they created the Adventurer's Guild to try and limit these people as well as magic. Requiring all Adventurer's to be registered (or to be considered Vigilantes if they are not licensed) and using the Guild system as a way to limit Magic to the general public via Spell Control Laws. The creation of this Guild created the world's first governmental superpower and led to an age of industrial revolution unlike any have seen before due to just the sheer capacity that Magic has. In the current age, the Adventurer's Guild has become a very corrupt, money grubbing tyrant that rules over the world with an iron fist.

[@verzeihturncoat27]

A man almost out of breath in shaggy clothes stumbles into the Adventurers Guild. Falling onto the counter he barely speaks: "I need to become an adventurer, quick..." The Guild Herald had not spoken a word when the Townsguard arrived: "Hand over that man. He escaped prison." The Guild Herald answered: "This man is an adventurer, the King knows very well that we take care of our own. Go back to your post guardsmen. His live is ours." as the townguards left the building the herald spoke to the man: "Welcome to your last chance in live." The assassines that deal with traitors of the adventuring guild laughing from the corner of the taverne...

[@Plasmagon99]

This sounds a lot like Solo Leveling.

[@Snowcrab27]

Oh nice, example of guilds in a very centralized countries

[@evmarekaj]

I have a series of short stories with a similar system, the difference is mine occurs after a series of cataclysmic events that ended the current extinction period. The stories starts hundreds of years after. Where the collapse of the modern world governments, earth topography, and the introduction of evolutionary/mutation inducing elements. The reduction of world governments triggered the eventual rise of smaller governing bodies, mercenary like organisation's that offer protection services, and more violent groups. The adventurers equivalent is the mercenary group's who offer protection from the rise of mutated creatures and such.

[@felipebisi4145]

​@@verzeihturncoat27then the king sent the army in and razed the adventurer guild to the ground The end

[@Skylos]

The idea of having a D&D adventure where the players are in an Adventurers guild, that then turns out to essentially operate as a mafia, and then the players want to try and either change the guild or fight against it sounds like a very endearing campaign tbh

[@TheNapster153]

And you can have the 'hero' company simply end up being the new mafia running the block by the end of it. Brilliant!

[@nerdgamer4207]

Knowing D&D players, they might try to become the new mafia boss

[@asimovvomisa4040]

@@nerdgamer4207 And they get surprised when another adventure group is trying to get to the lead position of said guild and reform it (wokring title: Of Hobos and Pallybros) Continue the powerstruggle or try to corrupt the Pallybros ? I mean how hard can it be to get a party of Paladins to break each of their oaths ... and having the support of some Oathbreakers might come in handy

[@ICantThinkOfAFunnyHandle]

​@@asimovvomisa4040why would I have oathbreakers as underlings when I can cast fireball on them?

[@Exilum]

It may be a bit weird considering how they are in people's imagination, but it's a very common trope in Japanese media (novels, manga, a bit less in anime) for the normally good or neutral organizations, such as the adventurer's guild, the church or the funding kingdom to be fundamentally corrupt and broken. Often, the adventurer's guild has political influence and intentions, the church is all about power and the kingdom wants to strengthen its military to invade its neighbors.

[@TheSumone]

I treat adventure guilds like a temp agency. All the quests are townsmen requests, like "rethatch the barn", or "my child said they saw a goblin by the stream, go and scout the truth" So an adventures guild is only as combat focused as a town needs.

[@kyriss12]

Ad to that the difference in quality between guilds/temp agencies. Some take a bigger cut and are more selective of their members. But they also go the extra mile in treating their members fairly and ensuring the right job matches the right member. Others are fly by night operations were anyone can join off the street and you get a better but the overall pay rate is lower, the employers are just as unfiltered as the employees and there’s a good chance you’ll be sent out to do something stupid and borderline illegal without proper training or equipment.

[@vaxrvaxr]

That works if you treat your fantasy town like the local mall.

[@TheSumone]

Please note rural villages and small towns probably can't support full independent trade guilds. So the adventures guild handles the middle ground.

[@Alkis05]

Needless to say retaching a barn is not an adventure

[@danielantony1882]

@@Alkis05 It is, if you're not picky.

[@killcat1971]

Given the POWER of adventurers it makes sense to regulate them, have an organization of OTHER adventurers to control them, have rules and people with the power to enforce them, otherwise an even medium level party could cause massive problems.

[@thekaxmax]

esp given the chaotic stupid players you keep hearing about....

[@Esponer]

Who's going to regulate them? They'd have a monopoly on violence. No-one is above them, no rules can be applied to them. They'd quickly become kings.

[@SusCalvin]

Early modern period states often had laws regulating vagrants and armed bands. In general, they don't like homeless armed bands wandering about. We were forced to sleep in the caravanserai outside the city. All mercenaries, caravans, private guards and such weren't allowed to loiter inside the city.

[@thekaxmax]

@@SusCalvinso adventurer's guildhouses would be outside where the caravan services are (cos they'd group up for safety), along with merc campsites. But a properly chartered guild wouldn't have homeless members. Remember, as noted, the original adventurers were travelling traders not potential murderhobos.

[@SusCalvin]

@@thekaxmax It depended if we had the status of roaming outsiders or trusty insiders. We eventually got recognised as citizens and the legitimate embassy of Denmark. We always thought of ourselves as nothing but a mixed expediton of the danish navy, the danish crown's embassy and the lutheran-evangelical state church. When we had citizenship we started to become a permanent fixture, with a house in the city proudly designated as the danish consulate. The aristocrats of the city has their own private guard forces. The city had competing street gangs running the streets and neighbourhoods below their towers. These armed groups had even more capacity for violence but were part of the city's fabric. We took inspiration from early Rome, where courts and the police are mostly concerned with city affairs and the aristocracy. One of the cities in the region was more extreme than others. They lived under a closed bubble dome outsiders could never even enter. They had built an entire little suburb/port on an island where outsiders could live. But all cities seemed to have some sort of caravanserai. A designated spot where caravans and outsiders could stay, where services catering to these outsiders also grew up. A little like the typical shady harbour borough with idle sailors hanging around pubs, but for caravaneers.

[@tonywilson7155]

Danmachi did a cool take on the guild set-up where every adventurer belonged to a house. The houses being in competition or co-operation occasionally makes it more interesting

[@nevisysbryd7450]

While I agree, it is important to understand that what makes the guild work in that setting is that it is an adaptation to the philia system in order to reign in what is essentially gang warfare by giving authority over a primary common resource to a relatively neutral third party as arbiter. It is not a generic adventurer's guild but a very specific institutional response to a very specific problem.

[@An_Ian]

@@nevisysbryd7450 and that problem being that the gods set the mortal world as there personal play pen and the denizens are one of the toys they fight over

[@TheManofthecross]

@@An_Ianuntill the cross and the crescent shows up to put an end to this shit historically anyway.

[@SusCalvin]

@@nevisysbryd7450 In our Moon game, the police of the lunar city-states were only concerned about crimes against the ruler and the city. The aristocracy had their own house guards and a court system to sort out their affairs. Most of the pleb citizens turned to street gangs or their own guild or neighbourhood associations for protection. Fights between these groups that did not end in crimes against the city were ignored by the police.

[@SusCalvin]

@@TheManofthecross We played that sort of game. We were the legitimate embassy of the Danish crown, an expedition of the danish navy, an assortment of academics and the lutheran-evangelical state church. It was 1590 and we were sent to the Moon. We ended up starting a pro-lutheran coup in the starter town because we didn't like where it was going. We were at war with one of the new lunar cults we disliked, some sort of nihilist party people.

[@gabrielarrhenius6252]

I am reading a novel called "Blacksmith of the Apocalypse" where the Adventurers Guild exist and is technically a church of a Dungeon God, so by being a member of them so are you having the possibility of not dying by being killed in dungeons by being revived in the closest guild

[@zeehero7280]

Praise the dungeon god!

[@dubuyajay9964]

Why do I imagine this "Dungeon God" looking like an Orc Guard or Goblin Torturer?

[@gabrielarrhenius6252]

@@dubuyajay9964 he is described as a hooded figure which if you look under is black as the abyss

[@dubuyajay9964]

@@gabrielarrhenius6252 Still appropriate for a dungeon entity.

[@colbyboucher6391]

...OK I actually love the idea of the Dungeon God. I love the old-school concept of dungeons being living things that really want you dead, the idea of a dungeon-based testing god that literally just goes "You want loot? Go get it, prove you're strong, then" is a fun one.

[@robsmith4114]

To be completely blunt, majority of the fantasy adventurer "guilds" aren't even truly guilds, though. They're just an employment agencies providing gigs and called "guilds" to give them a medieval flair. A guild typically represents a specific job group not a whole range of specializations. Take historical craft guilds as an example. There was not an all encompassing "craftsman guild" where a cooper, smith, or weaver went to pick up jobs. Each was a member of his or her own role specific guild and people looking for their services dealt directly with each craftsman. The guild just provided them with economic leverage and a means of controlling that particular market. Realistically, if a person or hamlet needed to deal with a goblin outbreak or the like, they're more likely to petition the local lord, (they're generally in a feudal like society, anyway) who might send out his men-at-arms to deal with the matter or hire a small mercenary band on his own to resolve the matter.

[@ChasePhifer-hj3wl]

It seems they may model more after the modern guilds (contractor unions, such as SAGAFTRA).

[@lucyandecember2843]

o.o

[@ChasePhifer-hj3wl]

Realistically, there wouldn't be goblins to deal with, just other humans 😋

[@somebodyanonymousx]

Honestly, adventurers are just glorified mercenaries

[@YEY0806]

​@ChasePhifer-hj3wl well some humans definitely don't seem that different to goblins

[@showtimeinc.1525]

I feel like adventures guilds of real life is less explorers and more interns or people talking 3-5 temporary jobs to get paid.

[@matthewparker9276]

I think the gig economy (e.g. uber, doordash, etc.) is a good analogy. You technically run your own business, but the guild brand allows you to get customers much more easily, so long as you follow their rules and give them a cut.

[@TrixyTrixter]

​@matthewparker9276 Depends slughtly. At least in my dnd world the adventurers guild is like a subscription service until you reach a certain rank where you being there is more valuable to them than they are to you. Otherwise yeah Agree with you

[@rikusauske]

​@@matthewparker9276actually guilds functioned more like trade unions, setting benefits and standards for it's members. Gigs are what it would look like without a guild.

[@matthewparker9276]

@@rikusauske I was speaking more about adventurers guilds than trade guilds. In addition to setting standards and granting benefits, adventurer guilds serve as a point of contact for prospective customers, and play a more direct role in negotiating prices and assigning jobs to their members. If hiring adventurers were common in the modern age, there'd be an app for that.

[@seanrea550]

That suggest the adventurer as a freelance mercenary making money off of what ever work they can or what ever loot they can acquire. In a way you can lump private investigators, bounty hunters, and repo agents into this as well.

[@fuzzwobble]

We did have adventurer's guilds. They were called mercenary companies. You hired X number of hardened men to do Y job as a contract. The reason fantasy uses 'adventurer's guilds' instead is to allow the antagonists or players to have more agency. A mercenary in a company was just that. They didn't go run off into the wilderness on their own accord to pursue some plot point. They all were part of the same group with the same oath, working together as a trained team. Mercenary company participation stops variety and stifles storytelling. You can think of an adventurer's guild like a 'casual mercenary company'. Come and take jobs as you wish, your reputation on the line instead of the company's, your name published as the one doing the job rather than your employer's. It's not that far-fetched.

[@boomerix]

Caravan Guards, hired Muscle and similar tended to be more like the "Adventurers". An Adventurers party is pretty much a group of Brutes who get hired to run security or deal with problems that require their unique style of persuasion. Like clearing out beggars from someones property or collecting debt.

[@profeseurchemical]

i've read stories online that centre around a protangonist floating from mercenary company to mercenary company. so it can still be done.

[@jgr7487]

What would probably hold the power of an Adventurer's Guild is the fact that some Classes are deeply related to other institutions: the Artificer is a member of their own trade's guild; the Cleric & the Monk have their religious hierarchies; the Druid has their own shamanic structure; the Wizard has the early form of the University; the Paladin might be linked to Nobility or to the Church to which they pledged an Oath; the Sorcerer may be deeply linked to the institution of Nobility itself. Besides that, the Barbarian & the Fighter may be linked to their own military structure, such as an official army or a mercenary company first; & the Thief can be linked to a syndicate or a crime family. The Bard, the Ranger & the Warlock would be the only true members of an AG. Therefore, the AG would have the blessing of all those other institutions, but also be seen as nothing but the people they pay to protect the more aventure-driven members of their own guilds.

[@mrm0nty550]

"Grimgar of Fantasy and Ash" works on this sort of logic

[@Tupadre97]

in my own homebrew of an adventurers guild its basically just a confederation of 13 guilds that each represent the 13 classes with each guild having its own sub-guild representing the subclasses and each guild/sub-guild has its own flavor that follows how each class functions just like how you mention here

[@randomweirdogamer3752]

my dude you forgot monks

[@luelee6168]

Wouldn't the warlock belong to an underground cult?

[@jgr7487]

@@luelee6168 maybe

[@chrisycochran2916]

I really like the concept of an adventurer's guild for legal protection of members. Seeing as how these are the kind of people easy to frame for murder amongst infighting nobles, the weight of a guild could help discourage false accusations, or become seen as impartial investigators too.

[@thekaxmax]

join the union/guild, if nothing else they have lawyers and respected senior members

[@DatAsianGuy]

As well as a healthy community of strong warriors. If someone tries to fuck with you, they might have to deal with dozens of highly skilled adventurers, some of which can take down great dragons by their lonesome. And usually adventuring is done in parties, so no matter what, you will have to deal with a group of skilled warriors.. or at least more skilled then the typical soldier in most fantasy media. @@thekaxmax

[@thekaxmax]

@@DatAsianGuy And that's why everyone else wants controls on them.

[@The_Custos]

I like how it is presented in the Goblin Slayer manga, and that the king uses the guild and the promise of adventurers *not having to pay taxes* to get them to join up and deal with threats (even though adventurers may be food or worse for monsters). It's smart world building, and wow, I would have signed as a bored boy from a small town. Started running the first quest from the GS trpg book. Great so far.

[@justnoob8141]

Well, you might get killed or turn into someone hentai, but free wifi is free wifi

[@The_Custos]

@@justnoob8141 indeed, but plenty in my hometown signed up for the military, during the war, just to get away from the place. In goblin slayer, dudes just get horribly murdered by monsters, rape is for reproduction or to torture elves and damsels.

[@benjaminthibieroz4155]

@@justnoob8141 Think of all the guys who historically joined wars and crusades out of excitement..

[@aaronlaughter6471]

@@justnoob8141 Dude, you fuckers really need to go outside and touch grass. Maybe loose 100 pounds. Take a shower. Becoming your wank bank will never be justified for anything.

[@zainmudassir2964]

They also kick out adventurers if they get greedy and lie regarding their share of treasure. They are assessed about their trustworthiness

[@GargamelGold]

The Grungeon Master, Another medieval fantasy staple is the thieves guild. Given the fact that it’s members would all be criminals, I wonder how that would work exactly. They definitely couldn’t operate out in the open like other guilds.

[@TrixyTrixter]

Step 1 to joining the thieves guild is to find them

[@Grungeon_Master]

Interesting thought. That may need to be another deep dive at some point, yes. My instinct is that it shouldn't really be called a guild, but research is certainly needed!

[@highlorddarkstar]

Depends on the form, whether they’re in the open. Your classic Italian Mafia is a pseudo-governmental organization collecting local taxes in return for protection from nobles who are “above the law”. On the other hand, you have the classic isolate group of highly trained killers available for a price. Both could have a guild structure (highly trained killers HATE competition), but one is going to be a lot more open (at least to the local non-noble population) than the other.

[@GargamelGold]

@@highlorddarkstar, But if they're out in the open, than it would be easy for adventurers and knights to hunt them down. They would be outlaws after all. They can't be too out in the open if you know what I mean.

[@killerhellhound]

@@GargamelGold do what the actual mafia did and make it loved by the locals so you have lots of support if adventurers try to shut you down

[@redlightu]

There's an interesting modern take on the "Adventurer's Guild" concept by a Korean developer named Project Moon. Private mercenaries for hire are known as "Fixers", who can undertake jobs ranging from simple chores, intel gathering, guard duty, and assassination. They work in "Offices", where they can accept contracts from their clients. They can also join "Associations", which are bigger and better equipped than an Office. 12 Associations are led by the 1st Association, which handles the induction, grading, and elevating of Fixers. These Associations all have their own specific skillset, (4th is assassination, 6th is all out warfare, 2nd is civil security). Fixers can also work for the reigning Corporations, at the cost of some freedoms. There is also Syndicates, who are basically the criminal, unsanctioned counterpart to Fixers. All of these entities are kept in check by the Corporations and the governing body known as the "Head". An unknown but very powerful group that holds a tight grip on the City.

[@joaoaugusto6290]

Projmoon yeah!!!!!!

[@GiantEnemyMudcrabz]

Ok but why did that bird go I̷̡̛͉̅̑͋͋̓'̷̢̢̧̖͖̙̺͎̯̭͖̫̦͇̒͗͑̔̅̿̕͝ͅm̶̊͜ ̴͓̯̖̤̞̙͎͔̗̱̾̏ͅņ̸̡̬̗̺͂̔͒̆́̎͑̔͑̕o̵͎̯̣͇̎̇̊͛̃̈́͗̅̿͆t̷͍͖̆̑͆̾̈̓̀͋̈̆́̐͆̍͝ ̵̛̙̬͓̞̘͎̈́̒̄ͅş̶̧̪̟͙̱͙͔͙̫̟̖͈̓́͐͂̂̐̐̆͌̇̌̚̚̕͝ť̴̨̨̛̫͔̙̠̝͔͕̥̼̳̣̻̊̑̿͆͗̋̍̿͒͝ü̷̡̡̡̢͎̦̗̜̦̭c̸̥͖͈͒̆̃k̷̦̳̯̻̝͔͔̈̆̾͂̽̒̾̎̋̚͝ͅͅ ̶̺͙̺͑̂̔̌͛̉̅̍̽̉͊̀̋̈́̚ỉ̷̡̢̧̩͈̪̙͎̟̼͐̈́́͌̓̓̎̐̚͜͝ņ̵̧̳̗̘͉̦̖̮̯͇̺͍̅̓̽͜͝͠ ̷̰̬̯̣̮͓̣̞̪̩̦̣͈̤̤͆͌̑̐̀̂͊̈̚͠h̵̪͇̜̖͔̗͊̿̀̆́̒͂̓̂͑́͘͠ë̸̡̱̩̣̠̜̼͎̖͓̭̞̲͎́͛͒̽̌̐̌̄̆̕̕͝r̸̡̯̟̯̣͛̓̋͑͗͆̇͋̌̍͊ê̶̡̨̧̝̯͈͕̫͎̼̠̽̈́̓̽͆̓̂͠͝͠ ̵̨̖̞͙̞͉̞̪͑̀̓͆̊̾̊̿̅̐͛͘͘w̵̡̡̖̬̙̗͗̀̐̃i̴̟͓̗͙͕̺̓͘ţ̵̢̨̛̖̗̳̲̙̮̠̖̬̳̭̼͐͆̈́͂́̽͛͊̕ḧ̴̢͕̙̭̖̠̤̹̟͉̙̱̋̆̋̔̆̎͛͊͜͜͜ ̸̡̢̨̨̗͖̩̜̻̘̍͋̎̌͊́̊̊͗͜͝y̵̱͈̥̿́̈́̅́̽̆́͝o̴͚̘͈͍̰̤̫͔̣̱̰͙̞̽̓̅̌͋͊̄̍̋̇̊͜ư̶̢̛͕̲͎̜̤̼̿̎̓̿́̓̆̚͘͝,̸̠͕̺̫͈̗̻͔̏̿ ̴̛̩̼̦̘̟̼͍̪͎̤̠̱̓̀̏̊͗̊̓̉͑́́̕͜ͅy̷̧̮̖̩̻̼̔͋͘ö̴̘̩̺́̔̇̅͊͌̆͛̐̍ư̷̖͖͖͎͂̒͐̒͐͐̽̅̀̓͑̌͘̚'̴̡͕̿r̷̨̛̛͔̬̫̫̮̥͚͈̦̲̆̂͗́̈́̊́̑̀́͠͝e̶̢̫̮̥̘̩̒̐͐͌̓̀̊͜͝ ̶͈̣̹͒͐̆͛̍̇́͆̃͗̔̒ş̸̢̨̜͖͎̺͉̌̄̍̔͗̍̈́ẗ̴̪͙͎͈̅u̶͖̬̰̟̰̙͈͓̺̻̿̆̀̓̋̏̏̓c̴̭̜͓̠͌͗̓̽̀̉͑͗͝k̴͈̱͖̲̫̖͓̼̏ ̵͙̻̖͍̬̭̥͉̠͓͙̥̣̝̈́͌ǐ̶̧̧͓̖̞̗̫͕̖͙̯̫̼͔͠ṉ̵̨̗͉̻͎̗̟̟̩́̋͒̃͛͆͌͂́̚͠ ̴̢̡̨̻͎͙̪̖̝̟̞́̄̏̄͊̓͒̃̉̐́̈͘̕͝ḧ̵͎̬̭̜̥́̊̉e̶̺̮̳̰͊͂r̵̛̯̜͇̱͑̊̏e̴̜̺͔̙̩̠̗͐̎͆̈̍̀͝ ̴̡̛̪̣̇̃͒͑͛͆͘͝ẇ̷̢̩̥̭͔̏͜͠î̸̞͈̖̗̱́͑͛̌͌͝͝t̷͓̱͙̤̩̼͚̻̎͑̒̌͊̒͜͝h̴̹̳̞̗̀͗̀̈́͌̑̉̄̈͑͘ͅ ̷̥̮̱̼̾̃͋̕͘m̶̢̺̪̱͎̝̜͚̭̰̩̓̄̾̀̃̈́̒͑̚̚͝e̸̡̢̢̥̹̭̬̟͙̾͜.̴̧̤̘̺̞͖̟̻̤̺̹͕̐̋͋͗́̐ ̵̻̈́̈́?

[@smjsuperscott]

Fixers are actually closer to more real world "handymen". The Associations, however, are definitely a more guild like structure enabled by just how intense and combative the City is

[@smbz-gcommunityhub]

When the video mentioned Fixers my PM brain LEAPED. You're absolutely right my friend, took the words right out of my mouth.

[@przemysawjozwiak144]

As I read your comment I just saw how this concept is similar to "Fixers" in PC game "Cyberkpunk 2077" based on ttrpg "Cyberpunk"

[@maxchaos44]

I read so much popcorn fantasy and isekai that I'm genuinely pleased every single topic here has been tackled at least once by a manga before. Through various levels of quality in execution but I'm glad they do. On the note of why Japanese people like it so much, buerocracy and organized structure in profession(except for a few places) is very ingrained in to its culture. I assume guilds aren't as prominent in western fantasy because of the emphasis in individualism they usually have while a lot of Japanese stories emphasize being the top or best in a system.

[@TheManofthecross]

That could be possible

[@minhducnguyen9276]

Ironically enough, adventure guilds in most anime settings are fairer than most mega corporations in Japan. They don't have unpaid internships and definitely no overtime work.

[@maxchaos44]

@@minhducnguyen9276 You say that. But you realize if adventurers don't work for a day they don't get anything, if they don't get there early they'll have to do ditch cleaning to get paid, if they don't do a job someone else will take it and they can just die from external. It's not megacrop work, Freelance work XD

[@minhducnguyen9276]

@@maxchaos44 Yeah, adventure guilds are more like a worker union than a corporation. In many settings, adventurers can even negotiate their payment beyond the listed payment on the quest board.

[@maxchaos44]

@@minhducnguyen9276 They make it a point to mention "We are risking our lives for this" and have shown how this is a good and a bad thing.

[@Nuclearburrit0]

Now I want to see a pre-adventurer's guild world where because monster hunting is disorganized and incredibly dangerous, travel between cities is extraordinary hard and expensive due to monsters and exploring the isolating effects that has on a city. With so little travel, making roads would be difficult, other nations might even become myths and communication is rare, exponentially so as distance increases.

[@Alkis05]

I think the witcher's guild is the most organic example of adventurer's guild. And Ironically, the most D&D friendly, since they are primarily monster slayers

[@Jasonwolf1495]

I feel many people are focusing a little hard on the mercenary side of things, but guilds also would organize and to a degree regulate adventurers. Instead of random wandering adventurers who are capable of slaying dragons or destroying a town, you have a guild that knows what kind of adventurers are around and can direct them to where they are needed. Much better to have a system directing these adventurers where people want them and to know who is capable of what and how dangerous they are.

[@SusCalvin]

Proper murderhobos don't start invading towns because a town will mess them up good. The baroness in the starter town has that town because she fought monsters and carved it out from the wilderness. She knows all the tricks you little shits can do because she and her now-courtiers did the same shit themselves. If you were a group of people who could clear out a piece of land from monsters, patrol that hex to keep more out and maintain a stronghold out there, you were the baron. You would have to ask yourselves "Are we in good enough shape to walk up to king Conan and tell him we don't need him?"

[@DragonKingZero]

One idea would be for "Adventurer's Guilds" to just be a term for a loose coalition of smaller, more specialized guilds, to make communication and cooperation among them easier and more effective.

[@adamlopez2275]

I think it'd be interesting to see competing adventures guilds that are both propped up and pitted against each other by the local nobility to prevent monopolies while not loosing the benefit of having an adventures guild

[@TheManofthecross]

Until the guilds find out about that and turn the tables on them that is.

[@benjaminthibieroz4155]

Eventually the guilds would become influent enough to hold authority themselves. A lot of medieval cities were actually ruled by councilers elected by the guilds, or at least they shared authority with the Church and nobility.

[@SusCalvin]

@@TheManofthecross There was never any general "merchant guild" for the entirety of Europe. Guilds were local. You're the guild of a certain city or city-alliance. Guilds would guard their privileges against outside guilds.

[@seancooper5140]

In a game I ran for my kids, the adventurer's guild in their starting nation was government sponsored and acted as a combination of postal service, temp agency, and point of registry for the regulated militia (adventurers are handy when organized for national defense). Adventurers were not obligated to join the guild, but if they don't and still engaged in adventurer-like antics that increased the risk of running afoul of authorities (who were potentially experienced adventurers) and being treated as rogue/foreign agents.

[@Nostripe361]

I always thought a good way would be multiple guilds ( monster hunters, explorers, mercenaries) come together to make the “adventures guild” as sort of a centralization and management place. Like the adventurer guild is the main office that a random person can go to get into contact with the guilds that does that job. Perhaps your average commoner has problems understanding the difference from the monster hunter guild and the magical region explorer guild so the adventurer guild acts as a middle man. Or you could do like say Fairy Tail and have hundreds of private magical guilds that do whatever jobs they want.

[@alexfaden3091]

Yeah. Exactly. Adventurers guild could be easy structured as a company that is acts as a middle man(garant) and has contacts with different groups and people that specialize in different things. Regular run of the mill stuff, like not important deliveries, regular hunting, etc are posted on a public board. But serious contracts are sent to private boards where professionals, who has access to them, can take on those contracts. Want to be a professional adventurer? You would be force either to become really famous as a solo, so that you would be able do secure contracts from the guild. Or join a group that is willing to take you in (hire you, if you already skilled) or teach and train you first( if you have potential),

[@okamiv5]

the adventures guild being a loosely associated mercenary army is how i tend to run it. to operate in a location they tend to have to have a contract with the local authorities or upper guild members step in to either brand you as brigands or put you in line so you dont mess up the reputation of the whole, and when wars break out between nations roughly half of the adventures guilds get drafted. mages have there own version of the guild that functions as "lab time" for the aspiring wizards apprentice and the like. hell some cities might just hirre adventures to be the militia for war and peace times, why not have your guard be ready for anything? i also tend to run a western march with a bunch of players who arnt around all at the same time, so it helps keep things civil and structured in the game.

[@SusCalvin]

We've found that an organization as framework is pretty nice when PCs and players come and go. This is not necessarily a guild though. The PCs can have their own organization, their own exploratory company. When we sat outside a megadungeon for two years, we were in practice a company of stakeholders invested in the place. There was no organization on top of the PCs, they were the organization. In our Moon game, we were the legitimate danish embassy, a danish naval mission to the Moon with representatives from the lutheran-evangelical church and academic circles.

[@SusCalvin]

One of my friends loves using a ship crew as their basic organization. You all start with a ship and crew, maybe 50 dudes. The ship becomes your mobile home base, all PCs not in active play are assumed to just man the ship along with those 50 dudes.

[@okamiv5]

@@SusCalvin thise are good point, and i love the ship and crew method. I wanted to use it for a pirate game that didnt pan out.

[@Deidealized]

I kind of feel like these adventurer guilds kind of look like early feudal lords. Isn't protection of the realm like the reason for feudal nobility existing? I think there might be an interesting idea of conflict between adventurer guilds and the local lord, because if the adventurer's guild was powerful enough what would stop it from seizing power? I knew that if I was a local lord or even like a merchant mayor of a free city, I'd be pretty nervous about the ambitions of that large organization of well-armed, well-organized, and independent veteran soldiers hanging out in my town.

[@Tupadre97]

thats part of the reason why i don't understand why people think that the ruling class and adventurers would even be different people necessarily. like the dmg literally calls the tiers of play heroes and masters of the realm/world for a reason. really once you have enough adventurers with a high enough level of experience theirs really no reason for them to not be political leaders especially in a medieval fantasy where the ruling class were supposed to be warriors that actually fought on the front lines to protect their subjects. if you were living in a world with adventurers that were stronger than your own local lord or king then there's no reason that you wouldn't support the most powerful and experienced of them in becoming the new lords and kings of your country. so really eventually once adventuring has become prevalent enough or lasted any amount of time pretty much all rulers of any country should basically either be current or retired adventurers since those would be the most qualified people to really lead any country.

[@benjaminparent4115]

What's interesting is that a similar conflict existed throughout history between mercenaries and noble, and well first one the important thing to note was that the distinction between mercenaries and standing soldier was not as clear cut. Most mercenary companies were funded by noble, for noble during period of war. And most soldier that fought for their country during war time would often end up as mercenaries during peace time, or would turn to banditism and become a little something we call a Routier. Even knight would sometime become mercenaries. And sometimes those mercenaries would be integrated into the standing army of a country if they served particularly well. And a standing army that wasn't payed would often mutined and turn mercenaries or bandit, that's why Rome was sack in 1527 by the imperial troop of the Holy Roman Empire, they weren't payed on time so they mutined and sacked Rome And as you guessed they cause a lot of trouble, mercenaries were often badly viewed because they caused a lot of trouble during peacetime act as bandit, and yeah some of them actually mutined and simply took land by force a part of the land and became landlord, but this was actually rare probably because moving to participate in another conflict or banditism was often more profitable than becoming a landlord. And being a good landlord is different from being a good soldier But the reason why mercenaries existed and weren't wiped by noble was relatively simple, kingdoms simply didn't had the fund to maintain a standing army capable of a full fledge war during peace time, it was too costly so they simply raised large armies during war, but at the end of the war would lay off most of the soldier, but because war was quite profitable = and made for a more interesting existence those soldier would just find another war to fight in as mercenaries or pillage the countryside. And kingdom would often hire mercenires companies when they went to war for the very good reasons that you can't acquire combat experience without participating in combat, and veteran soldier and commander were incredibly effective and therefore hightly sought after when a war broke out. A host of experienced soldier could turn the tide of a battle so that's why mercenaries lasted, if you didn't hire mercenaries you would probably be defeated by your enemy that took the decision of hiring them.

[@TheManofthecross]

And nation states would have to worry about that as well. Keep the guilds weak enough to not threaten the state but strong enough to get there value is a balance. But it’s better to break them up when the chance comes.

[@TheManofthecross]

@@benjaminparent4115not always though a standing army can beat mercenaries and had done so though as of this moment with me tying here I can’t look it up etc.

[@SusCalvin]

In the old school points of light game loop, that is how things work. You are striking out into a wilderness where civlization just ends outside a handful of strongholds. As you rise in level you can try to clear a hex completely from monsters and establish a stronghold. At that point you have a small company of goons with you. You and your goons provide security in that, attracting settling tenant farmers. A city starts to grow around your stronghold, villages grow up around the hex supporting towns. You can strike out to clear the adjacent hexes to expand what is now your point of light, your little patch of civilization. The people who run the town you start in did the same, and they know any tricks better than you. The baroness is higher level than you because she went through the same shit that you did to keep her stronghold free from monsters. Her goons and underlings that you talk to are probably not that powerful, but if you stir up enough shit the level 14 baroness and her entourage of adventurers-turned-courtiers will show up.

[@koeryn]

I actually ended up starting an adventurer's guild as the head of a thieves guild. We were training all of these thieves, but didn't want them practicing in town, so we started an Adventurer's Guild outwardly to legitimize adventurers and organize them, but internally as a job placement program for the rogues our guild was training to give them a productive outlet for their abilities. I miss that game.

[@benm6893]

For my campaign, the "Adventurers guild" was more so a mail service due to the danger travel posses. Being able to hold your own against something like a sudden horde of zombies or a band of roaming kobolds and goblins is a matter of life and death for all involved.

[@MadobeNanao]

I think one of the reasons why metal/letter ranks for adventurers are a thing is because the typical system doesn't quite fit in settings where combat ability varies from "15 years of experience and can only kill dire wolves" to "2 years of experience and can one man army a horde of orcs".

[@FangofFate]

Thank you for covering this topic, the idea of an adventuring guild felt contrived to me in the past, and I like the options you presented for making adventurer’s guilds make sense. It may not be the same thing, but in my setting, what I settled on when faced with the adventurer’s guild idea is what I call the Traveler’s Commission. It’s a public service created by the empire that nations and cities can choose to opt in to or not. If they opt into it, a portion of taxes go to maintaining the Commission, who centralize odd jobs and requests that anyone can take up, to help ease the burden off of city guards. But there might be good reason for places not to opt in, such as if local mercenary companies have greater influence, or the town/city is too small to be able to pay to upkeep the Commission. That’s been my solution for handling a profession as obscure as an “adventurer;” by leveraging the nature of adventurers to help out the local population of their various problems by formalizing it into a public service.

[@thestabbybrit4798]

The Adventurer's Guild format seems perfect for introducing new players to RPGs - they can start as Apprentice Adventurers with a DMPC walking them through a basic task like escorting a merchant caravan. He can have them plan the route they'll take to teach how to explore the world, how to handle foraging checks while travelling, organising watches at camp, etc. They then fight off bandits or similar to learn combat, and at the end of this tutorial they become Journeyman Adventurers and get sent to find and clear the bandit camp they were ambushed by in their tutorial!

[@andrewshandle]

Cormyr in the Forgotten Realms has something similar as far back as the early 1990s in 2nd Edition. To be an adventurer, you need to have signed an Adventurer's Charter with the State, you also pay taxes on money received for jobs and any found treasure in the land, so Adventuring is at least a formal profession. They don't go quite as far as the cute, cat girl behind the counter assigning our new heroes a "E class quest" to collect medicinal herbs, but it's close. ;) It's one of the reasons I like Cormyr over the Sword Coast since so much of the Sword Coast makes no sense from a Geo Political perspective.

[@Dreamfox-df6bg]

Well, that was before the Tabaxi were introduced into the Realms. A more up-to-date Cormyr might be a little more colourful when it comes to it's people. But yes, Cormyr usually is a relatively good quest hub with everything around it, especially if the group wants to rest a bit or wants to be sure the house/mansion they invested in is still there when they come back. One novel (Curse of the Azure Bonds) even mentions how the Temple of Tymora was busy one night, healing and resurrecting a group of adventurers that ran afoul of a dragon.

[@The_Custos]

The King in GS started the guild and lured heroes in by them not having to pay taxes as adventurers. Clearly they got a better deal than Cormyr.

[@The_Custos]

​@@Dreamfox-df6bgtabaxi are ridiculous and don't fit old Cormyr.

[@SusCalvin]

Cormyr is a Lawful place, they don't want wandering armed bands showing up. It's also a place where the law is constantly stretched thin and mercenaries can find stuff to do. Instead of cash and a pat on the back they can pay you with permanent positions in the army and a lower noble title. FR is pretty generous with levels among NPCs. Most basic goons are going to be low-level dudes but walking into a level 6 fighter isn't that special. And FR is littered with weird stuff, there's enchanted forests and weird caves all over.

[@alexandercross9081]

So for my world, nations normally handle their own version of a guild, but the place my players are, the continent of Rajek, is something of a frontier kind of place where interests of 2 international powers interact with a local Dwarven & Human kingdom, and an Independent Human kingdom, and a giant polar wasteland filled with orcs. Due to unique frictions, a single organization came into prominance, called the Emerald Wardens. The wardens are an umbrella organization for several guilds with different but sometimes related goals to work together without needing special charter every time they create a new adventuring team. Organizations include the Exterminators guild, the Archeologists guild, the Cartographers guild, Excorcists guild, and the Syrinx School of Mages. They put together journeyman teams appropriate to the widest mission profiles, then occasionally attach apprentices that are need for field experience. Some politics has resulted in the Wardens officially being neutral in the realms of national conflict, but realistically this only occasionally holds up to scrutiny, but everyone ignores it because the idea of the Wardens pulling out of their territory is not one most can tolerate "The only thing worse than the Wardens is no Wardens." But the nation's on Rajek have hit a stalemate for the past 30 years, so it's not been an issue these days.

[@soninhodev7851]

ah, yes, my first thought about adventures guilds was "they were hired by merchants to be body guards", i would think that the relation between character level, and position in the guild, would be, lvl 1 - 2 apprentice, lvl 3 - 6 journeyman, lvl 7+ master, for me this makes sense, but what about you?

[@SusCalvin]

If the merchants need a semi-permanent armed force, why can't they hire a standing force themselves. We've often played adventuring fools who are part of another organization. The army, a diplomatic mission, church groups etc.

[@soninhodev7851]

@@SusCalvin yes of course you can make your players part of the town guard, a church group, or whatever. really the only thing that matters, is that the adventurers have some sort of regulation. even if it is just "break the law and we will put a bounty on your head", so the other lawful adventurers hunt you down.

[@SusCalvin]

@@soninhodev7851 We had a charter from the danish crown as the official embassy to the Moon. Then we went around beating up vampires. The gang went around toting a danish flag and constantly introduces ourselves as emissaries from the mighty kingdom of Denmark. Paramilitary bums often operate in settings where central authority has collapsed or never existed. The Moon was host to dying civilizations clinging around in the last surviving city-states with ruins of civilizations long gone covered by the sand.

[@soninhodev7851]

@@SusCalvin yes, you are right, i just pulled an argument of an entirely different commenter... and i know this is just a mere storytelling tool in the toolbox, not a silver bullet. as such it should be used when appropriate, not every time, on every place...

[@ghrondindustries5136]

I think it would be fun to keep Metal or Letter ranks within an Adventurer's Guild as Grades. So, an S rank or Platinum Journeyman is prettyclose to earning Mastery, and an SS rank or Adamantine Master is probably so prestigious there might be no-one worthy of the title for a generation or two at a time (though in a magical world anyone who *is* that cool can probably stick around for quite a lot longer than that).

[@adrianmcbride1666]

I'd assume those ranks also help further specify how dangerous a task/monster is.

[@ghrondindustries5136]

@@adrianmcbride1666 One could even go so far as to add three kinds of classification: two for scale of threat and a third for *type* of threat.

[@badideagenerator2315]

What if they had specialist ranks? Some adventurers might get too old to keep progressing through the ranks and achieve a "veteran" rank, in which they are tasked with the training of newer adventurers. Some adventurers might prove themselves to be highly skilled, but too cold and brutal for regular jobs, leading them to be given an "executioner" rank, in which they are tasked with putting down adventurers who turn to crime. Some guild members might lack the skills necessary to take most jobs, but have Connections that could be useful to other adventurers. They could be put into a "sleeper" rank, in which they settle down in towns and cities to provide accommodation and information to fellow guild members who pass through.

[@cyzaine]

My last Shadow of the Demon lord campaign was based around a traveling mercenary outfit all players were part of. It was a good framing device for a more deadly game than 5e, and allowed new PCs to be 'promoted to the strike team' to replace dead ones, and allowed a good recurring supporting cast that followed around the PCs everywhere. Then I got to make opposing guilds, formal rules for challenging and 'dibs' rules for collaborating with each other and the like. It was alot of fun and really made the players feel like they were living in a world.

[@Chris-jx4ij]

The reason that the Adventurer's Guilds tend towards metal or letter grades instead of the Apprentice> Journeyman> Master system, is because they need a larger structure with more ranks to prove both their power and trustworthiness. Especially in a career wherein it's mostly independent contractors doing gig work. Plus it gives more of incentive to continue improving yourself and moving up the ranks.

[@mikado_m]

Yea but you could also add more labels between them.. Like novice, apprentice, journeyman, expert and then master Maybe you could even ad a high or low at master idk But thats already the same ammount as D, C, B, A, S ranks..

[@draynaruegames]

It's also a cultural thing, especially with letter grading. You find it in most Japanese games in some form, hell even your medical health check-ups have letter grades. So it's not surprising that it also found its way into Japanese RPGs and fantasy media

[@user-a5Bw9de]

Also, it can get confusing to use a term "journeyman" on an occupation that is basically about journeying for entire career life, or a term "Master" when an adventurer can be a master of a firebolt magic but incompetent with anything else. (jk)

[@zephodb]

Don't forget the old 'Work Boards' in many villages where someone needs something done and can't quite get to them, they were common in Asia and Europe for a long time, advertisements to get access to odd jobs like building a shed or what have you. It feels much like that taken to the next level of logic mixed with the 'guild' feeling of more Roman/Medieval periods. It feels right to me in a world where monsters proliferate and there's little to nothing to completely stop it.

[@Daemonworks]

For the curious, the single lsrgest influence on western fantasy in Japanese media was indeed D&D, by way of something called Record of Lodoss War, which was originally cleaned up transcripts of tabletop games thst were published in a magazine, and later adapted into novels then anime, games, etc. Other folks would either copy it, or chase down it's influences, and copy those. A ton of common tropes today are solely because early d&d (or other early tabletops, as RoLW didn't stay married to D&D) described something in a particular way.

[@klinetalladen]

Adventurer's guild in fantasy is just similar to a well-run job placement agency here in our world

[@Gaswafers]

There's two important things an adventurer's guild does that you didn't touch on: environmental conservation, and peacekeeping between involved individuals. Monsters are not just a threat, they are a resource, in addition to whatever valuable magical plants grow in the wild. The adventurer's guild ensures that these things are not overhunted, and also that people who go out to collect these natural bounties don't cross paths in the wild and start fighting each other, since the guild keeps track of which tasks are active or not.

[@BurningmonkeyGTR]

One piece of media that does guilds (and withholding in general) incredibly well is Ascendance of a Bookworm

[@PigtailSock]

I actually ran an Isekai Pathfinder game featuring the Adventures' Guild as the primary antagonist. The idea was that The Goddess kept summoning heroes from other worlds in order to defeat a nebulous threat. Dozens of heroes defeated hundreds of grim foes, but more amnesiac heroes kept showing up. No one knew why. Eventually, in frustration, a group of four heroes established the Adventures' Guild to manage the horde of murder hobos. In present day there are too many heroes, there are no quests because all the low level threats have been squashed under the weight of bodies. Nobody can level up. The Guild now runs and maintains dungeons, but there is an application and lottery process to gain access. The only real work is Guild work, but the Real Adventures hate the Guild.

[@LocalMaple]

For me, an Adventurer’s Guild serves two purposes. 1. The categorization of quests into difficulties and types. Guild Masters can take in any request, skim the information, and assess the best means of handling it. They can add types/qualifications like “bodyguard,” “espionage,” “fetch,” “harvest,” etc, and through that let the adventurer(s) determine which is the best fit for them. 2. The protection of greenhorns. By having ranked adventurers/parties, they can be assigned quests of equal ranking. If a party wants to rank up, they can take quests for points, or have an upper rank assess them on a harder quest with minimal support.

[@SusCalvin]

In the OD&D game loop, you are explorer-entrepreneurs who don't sit around waiting for work. You make your own work. The DM might give you a first hint or rumour but the rest is up to you. If you need an organization to work towards a project, you make that organization. A group of adventurers could easily be the PCs, their twice as many henchmen who are also classed characters, a platoon of level 0 men-at-arms hirelings, the same amount of non-combat specialist hirelings and genereral camp followers like craftspeople, healers, foragers and mule-drivers and a train of animals and some war-dogs.

[@KalaamNozalys]

I want to see some more stories of adventurers being backed up by their guild. To have the guild defend them from a bad client refusing to pay, or providing them with the necessities they might require. To really show that feeling of community and belonging that and "ideal" guild would be. The fact that, once there, they aren't alone.

[@antitheist3206]

My favorite example of this comes from Radiata Stories (a PS2 game from forever ago). Here there are several guilds including a merchant's guild, but there are 4 you recruit party members from: One is a mage's guild, featuring people who study magic directly and also operates as a library and observatory. Another was the bandit's guild, home to assassins and other folks you'd want for less savory jobs. Another is a local church that lends their students for healing services and other support (also half of them are monks, in case monsters get too cheeky). Lastly is the warrior's guild, for people skilled in combat but weren't able to become knights. They often work with each other and with the knights, helping to keep humanity moving forward and protect against the creatures that lurk in the wild (it *is* an RPG after all).

[@NoForksGiven]

I love that "adventurer" basically means labourer in these worlds. They can be given any job from pest extermination to dragon slaying. Anything but a normal 9-5

[@kikankuro]

I have a sort of adventuring guild in my book, but it's kinda combined with a cartographer/archeologist kind of guild too, due to the setting of the world being post apocalyptic fantasy, with few settlements that are known by the main city. The adventurers go out, map out areas, gather ancient relics, sketch unknown glyphs and alphabets and symbols, all to bring back to the guild hall for scholars to study and translate.

[@normal6483]

The Adventurer's Guild you describe reminds me of the original Templars. Starting out as a holy order of warriors, they eventually became bodyguards who protected people during pilgrimages. Then they became bodyguards who protected merchant caravans. Then they became money exchanges who would help people turn their currency into something more usable in their new location, and otherwise helped people adapt during their travels. (Then they were destroyed by the king because they had too much economic influence and could interfere with his rule.) An Adventurer's Guild could very well grow into performing other duties besides just divvying out quests - they may very well become a supplier of monster resources, and maybe even a bank! Of course, it's worth noting that the Templars weren't the only hired bodyguards or money changers - mercenaries also performed this role, as did temples. So rather than a single Adventurer's Guild, I think we would be more likely to see multiple competing guilds. An Adventurer's Guild, an Adventurer's College, an Adventurer's Company, and an Adventurer's Union could all form independently and either compete with each other or cooperate in order to divvy up responsibilities.

[@blablabla5365]

very good comparison.... but I think you need to continue with the templars a little longer to see how such a system works longterm .... because it wasn't long after their return from the "holy land" (so the "completion" of their task) that they were banned and kicked out from basically any kingdom.... maybe it was because they truly were all heretics but the most common analysis of the reasons is that they just became to powerful and wanted to keep their independence from the throne, which naturally the French king did not allow... so their higher ups were killed as criminals to the nation and the rest either fled or joined the states military. The only reason they even could gather all their forces is because crusades were a little different than ordinary wars because it was the church to call for war and not a nation.... this resulted in a war were most christian forces were not unionized but split upon between many Knightly orders. But don't forget that those knights were all invaders to the local population and therefore independent of both the local and their own governments...

[@hilleleisenberg6382]

great video as always! one point I've been struggling to understand and was missed was how this kind of institution interacts with the type of monster that doesn't attack a settlement directly but rather covertly mind controls or eats and impersonates the local lord and restructures the society to fit its needs (monsters like rakshasa or aboleths). on the one hand having a highly competent and mighty individual with a direct and personal connection to the local ruler (and therefore the ability to detect if their acting strange) can be a very effective way to deal with these kind of creatures, as they would have the connections to assemble a group capable of dealing with the threat, not just with raw power but more importantly the knowledge, experience and magical tools to navigate the situation. on the other hand having a person with access to multiple teams of essentially superheroes, power equivalent to a major lord (maybe as much as a born or even prince) and the ability to claim the king was replaced by an evil doppelganger and its ok to assassinate them, can be extremely destabilizing. this is ignoring the possibility that the kingdom has a "knight order", a group of ex-adventurers and their descendants trained in monster hunting loyal to the king and their liege through a formal title of nobility. it is likely that this job falls on them, even though they may likely need to go to the guild master for many jobs that require the experience gained from facing these monsters in a donjon environment. I can also see the position of guild master being so important that it is appointed by the king as a title of nobility, formalizing it in a way that is easier for a feudal system to manage.

[@pierrepero9338]

Glad you mentioned Mercenary companies. They seem a natural start for an adventurers guild. Another, but shadier, start may be a bandit band. Giving the possibility of multiple competing, guilds. As friendly to each other as the Mafia.

[@atmosquake3090]

Something a lot of settings miss out on when the players decide to exploit the economy. I’ve heard a number of stories where players open up businesses and have massive financial growth with absolutely no competition from existing groups that would already be in that niche. Or perhaps incentive to not be a murder hobo since killing one shopkeeper could quickly escalate to citywide manhunts or at least getting blacklisted with a bounty on your head.

[@richyhu2042]

One of the things I've done in my setting is basically turning the Adventuring Guild into whats effectively a mega non-profit. They started as a communication company before a cataclysm started wrecking everything. They were able to use their networks to link up isolated settlements and coordinate a defense and response to the cataclysm. Over the years since, they have turned into a catch all organization that does training and education for people who arrive in the world (because getting issekai'd is a very common occurance), quests, communications, knowledge archival, charity, scouts, recolonization, etc. They have a formal name but everyone still just calls them the Guild because its short. In some cases they could be seen as a type of global government, but a group of powerful adventurers with a strong moral compass made them swear oaths not to take over and willingly step down from power after the cataclysm was over. Of course the oath isn't magically binding anything and its one reason why there is always tension between the Guild and its Adventurers.

[@j-bonkers1887]

Your content always feel like a really fun Audiobook. Always so interesting

[@hitomisalazar4073]

I think there's an interesting bit in the evolution that wasn't quite touched on, because it's so different from modern RPGs. Early D&D was designed with the mindset that sure, there were 3-5 best friends on a Quest... and about 20+ other random people that they were bringing along for support. And in the early adventures and modules published you kind of see that intention. Of getting a Quest from something (a letter, an NPC who greets you outside of town, etc). And then going to places to request help doing said quest. Keep on the Borderlands, for instance. Where it's not expected that you'll go into the Caves of Chaos with just 4 people. They expect you to hire others to go on the job. Either talking to the local Baron who will offer you plate armored soldiers. Or going to get thugs down at the Tavern. Or talking to some of the farmers on the outskirts who can offer some bodies for the expedition. It wasn't really until the mid 90s where I saw adventure design really shift from this idea of vast ventures involving dozens of people to "4 best friends do it on their own". And over time you saw people taking little shortcuts to cobble things together as mentioned. If you can hire brutish sellswords on the cheap at the local tavern, and pick up random rumors at the tavern... why not make it official that "this is where the Adventurers are available to hire" and such? It never really seemed like something that D&D's writers back in the TSR days really intended to include. At least not that I ever saw. It was just this sort of convergent evolution of putting all these pieces that fit together into one place on the grassroots level. Because while I wasn't seeing published modules with Adventurer Guilds per se (or at least not INTENDED as one, with things like the Forgotten Realm's Harpers who were actually a secret conspiracy of spies looking to accomplish goals who had the guise of Adventurers). It wasn't until Pathfinder that I really saw a "real" Adventurer Guilds being put in published adventures. Which is fairly late in the development (From 1974 to 2009?). It was a concept that I think most tables around the world kind of figured out before the paid writers and developers did. And rather than make it something of competition, localized, etc. Instead went for more a Global Support Network. So from the idea of just having a "Tavern" serving as a hub... to someone making legitimate guilds out of it. And then having competition? It does make a lot of sense.

[@SusCalvin]

There is less need for an outside organization of adventurers when your PCs, their dozen of henchman retainers and a platoon of men-at-arms with as many camp followers and specialist are the organization. It's like asking "Why didn't the conquistadors join the conquistador guild instead of having these hundreds-strong expeditions?" And around level 10 you could start to think of carving out your own hex of civilization. You don't go to the baron to ask for work, you are the baron. The mates you had are founding their own cathedral, running a big street gang, sitting in a great honkin' wizard tower etc. Factions are great fun. I would end up with less factions in the region if I took them all and jammed them together into a single adventure guild. Same if I took every economic interest of the region and jammed them into a single generic "merchant guild". Other factions on the map will start to see the PCs as a faction in themselves. They will have a reputation as a faction if they act as one, with one PCs actions being seen as representative for the whole. If they start flashing their banners, people who they have never met before will know who is rolling into town. I like to make the slide into the domain game slower by starting it early. Around level 3-5, when they have as much faction importance as a street gang or mercenary platoon.

[@SusCalvin]

In my current Esoteric Enterprises game (modern urban gangland setting, like OSR crossed with WoD) everyone is part of the criminal-occult underworld community. If you want to buy an illegal skorpion SMG or recruit a trusty driver you do so through an informal black market. Trying to locate a wizard or a dude who can identify a magic item works the same way. The underworld is inhabited by individuals, small informal groups of mates and larger gangs. Gangs are from 25 to 50 individuals. The largest I rolled was the dominant city mob numbering an entire 60-goon army. The only larger faction is the cops, no one wants the wrath of the state to fall on them.

[@SusCalvin]

I don't know why this fell out of favor. Playing one PC with one or two henchmen and a troop of five hireling goons is fun. Sometimes it will surface without expectation. You could play a hardholder in Apocalypse World and have an entire town and militia at your call, as well as a lunatic in a mask running around. In Blades in the Dark you run a street gang together, like a shared project.

[@AtelierGod]

12:15 If we look at the usual letter ranks, a quick reason comes to mind: F,E,D,C,B, A, and S are 7 ranks, and if we separate them into groups based only on apprentices, journeymen, and masters, an Apprentice could pick up a D-ranked mission as their first mission and end up dead because D rank is so much more dangerous than F.

[@jeremyrichard2722]

Adventurers Guilds exist for the simple reason that they actually did exist IRL. I watched most of the video and one thing you have to understand is that there were numerous "gentleman's clubs" and such that functionally were adventurers guilds. Real life explorers, historians, and others had their own little clubs and organizations that helped them fund expeditions to look into theories and things. This is part how a lot of the expeditions to places like Egypt and Africa and such raised money. There were also various "Captan's Table" type organizations where ship captains would get together in an informal alliance to watch each other's back and oftentimes also engage in various kinds of exploration and risk taking. If you've ever watched "Discovery Channel" you occasionally see shows dealing with the current descendants of such organizations and at one point Josh Gates did a whole documentary on one of the longer running ones. Various occult societies like some of the more obscure freemason orders (not ones claiming to be "Scottish Rite"), groups similar to say "The Golden Dawn", and others also had their own versions of this, oftentimes going to great efforts to seek out what they thought was going to be mystical knowledge. These things you see in movies? Well that is the fantasy "heroic" version of this, but it did have some basis. Clearly none of the occult societies summoned Cthulhu and sucked London into The Dark Dimension... or came close, for example. In fact many of these had such a lack of accomplishment and were such money pits you've never heard of them as they were mostly for the shared fun of the members, but there were some exceptions that even have notoriety today. That said you are correct to a small extent, such things did not exist in the middle ages. To the best of my knowledge they mostly weren't a thing until The Renaissance and weren't really known until The Victorian Era. Fantasy RPGs were always playing fast and loose with history and anyone with half a brain can tell you it was never remotely "period" or accurate in any way. Heck as people argue they even get things like the term "Long Sword" wrong. Adventurer's guilds were inserted into fantasy RPGs mostly as a tool to represent an alternative to the old "the King Sent you" trope. The idea being that if the PCs were being sent to some unknown dungeon or wilderness region, it would be funded by such a group to explain limited resources and also justify game balance. This is how a lot of such things were actually done. Typically such things of course failed which adds to the whole thing of most people never coming back. The PCs are of course going to find out why this is the case and have an actual adventure. IRL in many cases it would be they spent a lot of money, found jack shit, and came home disappointed, but there is no real gaming in that. The problem with the whole concept tends to mostly come down to the whole issue of social status and most fantasy worlds now trying to be more logical than the old dungeon crawling games. Leading to the issues of how does a seemingly feudal society deal with the issue of heavily armed and violently capable peasants running around doing whatever the fuck they want for the most part. They also try and think in the sense of this being normalized in ways it was never supposed to be, and how any world might "logically" have all those monsters and death pits out there and still resemble medieval europe. Well for one half the problem was this was never intended to be normal in the context of the world. Another is simply the whole issue of "zero to hero" progression where a PC simply being rich to start or having social status is an issue. The reality is the real world adventurers, the ones that the term comes from, tended to be exceptional individuals from centuries later and typically had money and social status, or were skilled professionals in the peer group of such people who rapidly had such things due to association with them. So strictly speaking an adventurers guild would be a bunch of rich people who probably met at a gentleman's club who were into all kinds of fringe academics and history stuff. They would hear stories and the like and they decide "well no one with serious money even cares, but wouldn't it be cool if we used our resources to go there and find out? Even if nothing happens it will be fun just to go there and poke around and see what happens". That would be an adventurers guild. As far as the violent and mercenary aspects of adventurers guilds in fantasy RPGs, the real disconnect is that in the real world there aren't really any monsters we've ever found. Likewise most old ruins are just that, and sort of unimpressive except to hard core history nerds. Most places with legendary and supernatural reputations? Well mostly just places puffed up by superstitious locals. You go there loaded with tons of firepower and can wait for the monster and nothing is going to happen. The problem with the whole concept is when your dealing with a world balance that already makes no sense, where there are horrible creatures running down the street dancing "The Monster Mash". It's not even properly an "adventure" when that is simply tuesday in overpopulated fantasy land, where some GM decided in order to maintain some semblance of control the PCs must be relatively ordinary and humble people in the scope of things somehow, despite the ability to say fart fireballs that can fry 20 people with almost casual effort, and that "Grandmaster Swordfighter" being a fighter is actually just the world version of an unskilled labourer with some muscles because well.... "fighter" is the standard class for the background people and that means anyone who wants to will pursue quadruple weapon specialization because it makes no sense for them not to somehow since that's their class. We call this "game logic", and that is where things fall apart. Anime, like "Goblin Slayer" is sort of poking fun at some of this, it is what we call a "Satire", and showing somewhat, what this might actually look like. It's very much based on RPGs (note the dice), the novels on which RPGs are based however, especially originally, explain things far better, and mostly get away with doing things the way they do because the heroes and POV characters are outliers in their world typically, rather than trying to be put into a world where some DM is trying to somehow maintain a sort of balance for fear that his PCs will go on constant murder rampages, or upset his carefully written history and power structure.

[@grins9882]

Bro wrote a novel

[@mechanicat1934]

Educational. Thank you for writing this.

[@Thunderous333]

Pretty good analysis.

[@fy8798]

You are not describing an adventurer's guild, nor anything like one. These clubs existed, but they're more like collectives of rich robber barons planning their next heist, chasing the next non-existant city of gold, the next region to plunder and turn into a plantation. The science stuff came later, as a justification for the former. In fact, if you truly want to go historical, gentlemen's clubs are way late to the party. You actually want conquistadores, which are the actual closest thing to "adventurers" - as in, people without land, armed to the teeth, and looking for a place to earn gold by battle (and of course brutal genocide of people not like them. Huh, almost like fantasy, where various races are inherently evil and okay to kill. Huh. Funny how close that actually matches. Has a reason good fantasy doesn't have inherently evil races, a topic even Tolkien wrestled with a lot, and he was the damn genre starter! Somehow people always ignore his points and just go for aesthetics) Both of these historical groups, truly, are more like villain societies/gangs though. None of them actually helped local people. A historical gentlemen's club would be villains in a renaissance era RPG. A really cool villain, in fact - rich, well connected, smart, and absolutely ruthless. A typical gentlemen's club would run circles around your typical fantasy villain. Probably employ them, really.

[@Thunderous333]

@fy8798 God you're such a buzzkill.

[@juanisol8275]

Wow! Brutal Dissection, context and suggestions to this particular concept! I love these kinds of critical reviews of the fantastic tropics!! Here are some questions to suggest for future analytical videos: - The Ever Present Medieval Fantasy World (Syncretism or Cultural Diversification?) - The Ambiguity between Magical Races or Species (Symbolic Spiritualism or Evolutionary Anthropology?) - The Dark Lord, Demigods and other Spiritual Entities (Existential influence, repercussions and contextual paradigms?)

[@leshyaedawnfire]

My favorite iteration of the Adventurer's Guild is found in Final Fantasy XIV (my favorite MMO). In this game, every Class the player can take has it's own established Guild, regardless of whether the class is a Combat Class, Gathering Class, or Crafting Class. And all of these Guilds rely on each other for needed materials and supplies for their trade. In addition, the society of the world is made up of several City-States that oversee specific regions. For example, the City-State of Ul'dah oversees the arid region of Thanalan, the City-State of Gridania oversees the massive forest region of the Black Shroud, and the City-State of Limsa Lominsa oversees the coastal region of La Nosica. The different Guilds are divided between these City-States based on which ones they made the most sense to either originate from or be grounded in. These regions are very large, and it's not always easy for the local military/militia/guards to defend them, especially in times of conflict or upheaval. So the Adventurer's Guild was established as a way to outsource and organize mercenaries and also facilitate better collaboration between the existing Guilds. Through the Adventurer's Guild, individual adventurer's can find jobs, locate Guilds to train with, form groups to work with for harder missions, and, if they are skilled enough, potentially be scouted and recruited by mercenary companies (called Free Companies) or the local military (called Grand Companies) without having to give up their ability to take individual contacts. The Adventurer's Guild also offers advice and mentorship to inexperienced adventurer's, a place to sleep if they don't have a nearby home (all of them are located in the local inns) and a level of protection should they get into some kind of trouble. It's a really well balanced system.

[@akirachisaka9997]

12:05 I think that it's because, the Adventurer's Guild isn't the guild of "Adventurers". It's actually the guild that deals with the intricacies between Adventurers and clients. In a way, the adventurers are the commodity that the guild is trying to sell, so I guess metal or letter rankings makes sense...

[@Sethzenjion]

The adventures guild in my campaign exists as a subsidiary of the more formal government version. Monsters staying in a location for too long carries a risk of permanently altering the geography due to an elemental imbalance. So having adventures doted around to world to deal with lesser treats and scout out for majoe threats is a key component. Also everyone in the world has magic so they also function as a sort of school to stop people from hurting themselves or others due to a lack of control or morals.

[@SusCalvin]

In Mutant, this task falls to villages and towns. A town or collective of villages can organise a monster-hunting militia to smoke out or dynamite tunnels. Most of these are formed by townies on rotation on the wall, a posse of townies/farmers to face a specific threat or a semi-permanent guard force raised from said people and paid to patrol. At worst, they use the army. Dudes with something between punt guns and light field artillery show up. Towns are garrisoned by the regular army. The smaller villages are patrolled by a gendarmerie-like militia-police. When a village joins the empire, the first thing that shows up is a tax man and a militia troop.

[@thomasjenkins5727]

I've been thinking about the idea of the Adventurer's Guild. Where my line of thought went was for the Adventurer's Guild being more of a Scout's Guild. It trains people not only in the effective use of violence, but also in survival, travel, dungeoneering, guild bureaucracy, and the like. They then hire a party with the other skills needed. Essentially, the Adventurer's Guild is a group of people specialized in Adventure.

[@bittersweetvictory8541]

this is really enlightening!! i like how you break all of this down with historical context. helps a lot when you want your world to feel grounded, like i do.

[@JoshuaLlamaLlama]

This was shockingly close to my responses to the core assumptions of my new campaign world I'm working on. ❤ A brutally deadly world where this mechanic is front and center because it HAD to be for society to survive. A lot of these people here have proposed faults and questions to your idea that are inspiring even more depth for my world. 🎉 (Assuming my players don't read my comments, lol) I started where you left off here, and I took the idea of the guild becoming extortionary to the extreme and turned it into a military dictatorship in the corner of the world the players are trapped in. The monopoly causing magic to be prohibitively expensive for the average person, and setting up for some interesting interactions for any casters in the group. There are some really shady things this government is doing behind the scenes and essentially IS the BBEG though in directly. I set it up in hopes this system would allow my players to come and go as well as have one-shots with impunity. There's definitely some rough edges and the whole concept is double edged sword for the GM but that's the fun for me.

[@thatguyfromthequadcities]

Well, that was an inspiring video to get those creative juices flowing. I like the idea of introducing "citizenship" into my fantasy settings. If you were born in that city (or outlying village/town) you are living in, you are a citizen and have certain political rights. However, if you were born outside that area or weren't adopted by family from within that area, you don't have those rights. Citizenship might be the major distinction between guards (martially trained citizens), priests/mages (magically trained citizens), and adventurers (martially or magically trained non-citizens). Perhaps one of the goals of some adventurers is to earn enough money to "buy" citizenship for themselves and their families. Maybe only citizens can vote for their elected representatives or be an elected representative. Likewise, maybe only citizens can own land, including a building within a settlement in that area. For adventurers, maybe a guild hall is the only place they can affordably stay long-term because it is technically owned by the local noble or run by a citizen adventurer. Otherwise, the adventurer would have to spend lots of money on pricy inn stays. Maybe the captain of the guard was a former adventurer who earned their citizenship and now commands forces to protect their new homeland. Perhaps the local noble regularly hires adventurers to train their guards or local militias. Perhaps gathering of raw materials (I am looking at you, herbs) for crafting guilds are outsourced to adventurers because crafting guilds don't have to pay non-citizens as much and because of idle hands being fiendish playthings. Lots of plot potential or character growth just by looking at the role guilds and citizenship plays in the world. Great inspirational video.

[@zetsubou1v1]

I like your setup for the positions of the guilds. Journeyman as novices or freelancers that aren't likely to stick around but might take seasonal or emergency work whenever they show up. Apprentices that could be trainees looking to gain skills or juniors looking for advanced training that serve the populace regularly, and masters that train underlings, manage things, and may be the elite for dangerous marks. One example i like is in Ascendance of a bookworm. It doesn't have an adventuring guild as far as i know because military and magical power is dominated by nobility, but the various trade guilds use the system not only for patents, pricing and the sharing of information, but as a social cushion for the class system. The nobility is overwhelming might from above, but is near fully dependent on the bottom tiers for food and crafts. The merchant class becomes a middle ground of interfacing, insurance and self policing, keeping the two incompatible classes from even meeting in most cases to avoid uprisings or cullings. Applying that to the adventuring guild concept, it makes sense to have a system to either incorporate or deal with adventurers. Perhaps as a way to handle powerful people without upsetting the powers on high, as a way up the social ladder from wanderer to local, or just as a way to ease or limit the strain placed upon locals when said travelers roll into town and need/demand services. It can even be an extra national organization that regulates standards around the world and becomes a buffer when transitioning between different laws and customs.

[@Tave247]

I worked as a labourer for an employment agency. In short it's realistic. People need stuff done and dont want to pay full price. I would do odd jobs for different companies. Work included: moving things for renovators, filling in when staff were absent, cleaning up nasty mess before inspectors arrived. It's usually for those who can't get into permanent work or need a flexible lifestyle.

[@dahuntre]

Always cool learn about history, and hope that can inform stories and worldbuilding. Escort missions are notoriously tricky to make fun, but you could utilize that. Early “adventurers” were mostly relegated to escort guards, but nowadays they can go on all kinds of missions. The original guild master and other veterans could tell the current generation of guild members how good they have it, at least having different OPTIONS of dangerous missions to undergo.

[@Nodjia]

I tend to think that adventurer guilds are a very strange and difficult topic to discuss. Depending on the setting, they do fill a role of simplifying "quest" management for a group of individuals, but they often have an unrealistically broad range of service levels, covering simple tasks like delivering mundane items, collecting herbs, or dealing with rodent infestations but also more complex or dangerous tasks such as slaying dragons or dealing with political problems. If a setting is meant to be "more realistic" I would think that such problems would be handled in a much different way than posting a request for anonymous help from people with unspecified qualifications. Functionally speaking, there should be existing means of having goods delivered safely outside of entrusting parcels to random people who "do anything" for money. Similarly, I would think any task which entails hunting and slaying extremely dangerous creatures would be handled by existing military or mercenary organizations, not a "catch all" guild which handles less risky services. The do seem to relate most readily to the old social clubs formed in the renaissance, which are often depicted as gentlemen's organizations which debated the occult and exploration efforts in remote regions (whether they had any real experience with them or not). I feel a more reasonable scenario would be that individuals are part of guilds for their specific skill set, such as a stonemason being a part of a mason's guild, while "adventurer" guilds would be more like an agency that handles larger requests as a middleman between those specific guilds. An agent would take in more complex requests, assess the requirements and then act as an intermediary between the other guilds to put together a team which fulfills the needs of their client in return for a fee. The concept of "adventurer" as a profession really breaks down and becomes more of a gamified concept if we consider real world situations.

[@minhducnguyen9276]

The existence of Adventure guilds as a legitimate military power seems impossible to me when entities like nations exist. In a fantasy setting, strong nations wouldn't let the pool of talented individuals wasted on what is basically mercenary job. Magic Academies wouldn't serve peaceful purposes solely like in most fantasy but a huge percentage of them would be military academy to train talented wizards or warlocks to serve the state. The more I think of it, adventure guilds would be more like the pirate bays in the new world during the golden age of piracy. Pirates are banned from all national ports as they have no allegiance to any nation but they still need resupply, repair services, shore leaves, leisure and anything related to sustaining a life on the sea that they can't provide to themselves. Pirates Ports were usually run by what could be called a pirate commonwealth. They have enough firepower to repel the military power of major nations as they are far enough from the empire core to justify sending huge navy to clear them out and close enough to the new frontier to benefit from the flow of trade and resources. Let's say in a fantasy setting, new continent is discovered that's full of resources but also full of powerful monster that the old nations cannot yet easily conquer, then the coastal areas and islands would be the place where adventure guilds can exist. But they would be much more lawless than what people would expect to see in the stereotypical adventure guilds. As they would only have guidelines for laws.

[@AC-dk4fp]

@@minhducnguyen9276 Medieval Kingdoms and city states don't monopolise force like that. Camps full of bandits that need clearing out is kind of incompatible with state monopolised force. European national professional armies also tended to just evolve out of mercenary companies anyway. Bandit, soldier and mercenary tend to be flexible categories, as with privateers and pirates. An adventurers guild would be a way of organising potential bandits into infighting with other potential bandits.

[@Nodjia]

@@AC-dk4fp I suppose the problem I run into most when trying to justify the existence of "adventurers" as a job, and thus "adventurer's guilds" as organizations, is that for almost any job that the guild could be asked to do, there is a more specific guild or specialist that should exist. Need herbs for medicinal purposes, you need a botanist/herbalist/woodsman. Need monsters slain to protect an important trade route, you would hire mercenaries/soldiers belonging to the feudal lord/knights of the realm (depending on the time period you are basing your setting on soldiers may or may not be professionals, they could just be organized from militia and conscripts). Need rats cleared out of a sewer system and fixes made for some kind of blockage, there should be a rat catcher and civil engineer in the city. Bakers exist in DnD games, it's not an "adventurous" job, but they exist... so why don't all these other practical jobs have someone who does them? For more esoteric jobs or jobs requiring magic, there is very little reason for anyone who can cast even first level spells to be "unfortunate" enough to not have gainful employment through the use of their talents. Abjurer's protective charms should sell well, diviners would be extremely valuable political assets, invokers would likely find themselves forcibly recruited into military positions, illusionists and enchanters would be extremely popular in entertainment industries, while necromancers and conjurers would be excellent medical professionals and craftsmen. To not have any of the above jobs and instead be scraping by doing "random tasks" pinned to a board in a drinking hall means that these people are either social outcasts or the entire setting is "gamified" to such a degree that positions either do not exist or every position is already taken by the elite. I do think there is something to be said for the fact that, historically speaking, many mercenary companies were also bandits (depending on whether they were actually paid by their employer or just given looting rights or if they simply plundered regardless of any charters or orders). So the notion of a character taking "side jobs" from a guild to make some extra coin seems reasonable. That part I can get behind. I just have a hard time justifying the existence of some general help-desk set up in a tavern somewhere that has jobs for anyone who feels like doing them.

[@benjaminparent4115]

@@minhducnguyen9276 One thing to think about is that our society changed a lot, and especially during the high middle age early renaissance nation didn't had such a monopoly over military power. Mercenaries were common enough that a mercenary band could reach the size of a small army. And the differences between a standing soldier and a mercenary wasn't as clear cut many soldier were levied by a country to fight in a war then when the war ended they would be let go, and either become mercenaries or even bandit, or sometimes they would just be directly levied as mercenaries, the landknecht the famous german mercenaries were initially levied by an Holy Roman Emperor and formed the heart of Holy Roman armies for quite a long time, and yet they were considered mercenaries and fought for other countries. And sometimes mercenaries would be integrated to become part of a standing army. I actually from what I could gather during the high middle age most people would become soldier not out of pride for their country but for the sake of money and to live a more interesting life. So even profesioonal soldier from a standing army would have a mindset closer to a mercenary than our modern soldier, sometimes campaign would be stopped because the soldier thought they weren't payed enough, or they would simply sack a city if they weren't payed in time. Armies were also often levied for a specific campaign and then disbanded at the end of the campaign, and for that reasons some countries especially during the high middle age actually encouraged civilian to not only owned weapon and armor in case they were levied, but also trained with them. The english were fairly famous for encouraging their civilian population to not only own longbow but trained with them, archery was hobby encouraged by the state. An adventurer's guild coul simply be a way for nobility to encourage its civilian population to stay trained by offering various odd military duty, or too keep its veteran from turning bandit or going abroad as mercenaries by allowing them to make money out of their military experience.

[@minhducnguyen9276]

@@benjaminparent4115 I know that. Kingdoms and nation states function differently. But in many settings they have empires and that's where it becomes a problem because that means they are somewhere around the renaissance era or even early industrial revolution. It's not a problem when they stick to the medieval setting but if there's anything resembling the British empire then the existence of the adventure guilds becomes questionable unless it's on the frontier.

[@siinon1313]

Really needed this video and appreciate you going in depth of how institution like this would make sense. I've always felt like injecting an Adventurers' guild into my settings was quite superficial but now I definitely see it in a different light

[@primepm8861]

I like to imagine the Japanese media's overrealiance on guild systems in fantasy is a metaphor for how much animators and mangaka really want unions.

[@zeropoint2594]

In Magic the Gathering there is a world called zendikar which is a world rich in mana and whose Landscape is ever shifting there they had so called Explorer Guilds who set out to find treasures in ruins that show up from time to time and map ways through the dangers of the landscape because it is changing all the time yesterday there might have been a forest today it´s a mountain range so they needed individuals to find safe passages from one settlement to the other I think this might check as an adventurer guild too

[@moggtow]

One other thing guilds in anime often do is issuing identity papers to their members, so they seem to have some administrative role as well and could emane directly from the local lord's will and money, I have also seen some where adventurers paid taxes to the lord and/or city when joining for their license to work.

[@Alex-xt1rr]

Issuing identity papers to their members was something crafting guilds did and in some cases still do. When an apprentice becomes a journeyman and starts his journeyman year (Traveling from town to town to learn more about his craft from other masters and not allowed to return home for at least one year) he gets his documents that give him access to the guild house and show that he is a proper guild trained craftsman and not someone who works outside of regulations. BTW those travel papers are the origins of today's passports / ID cards.

[@aaronlaughter6471]

@@Alex-xt1rr What, your telling me that anime didn't create everything. From how weebs talk, before there was nothing before the land of failing birth rates and hentai made cartoons.

[@Little_Beggar]

What a great video. Glad youtube decided to randomly offer it. This was a lot more interesting than I expected.

[@Alzhaer]

The Adventurers Guild usually also doubles as a pub and shop, in dungeons and dragons that is where I rule the standardised prices come from. The local people may also not want rough adventurers in their local hotels and adventurers may want to cluster together as an assassin isn't likely to strike in a building filled to the brim with warriors and magi.

[@lolanashbringer]

Interesting points but I think the view point here is wrong. Adventurer guilds are for all intents and purposes a Free Company. A type of Mercenary army that is not tied to any government. They're swords for hire, they would something more akin to military ranks, and work perfectly in most fantasy settings. Merchant needs armed guards send a free company, need extra muscle in a war free company. need a monster slain free company etc .

[@Grungeon_Master]

I debated whether or not to discuss mercenary companies or not for a while, but decided against it for two main reasons: 1) I believe that a traditional merchant-like guild structure is more or less the standard representation of adventurer's guilds in fantasy media (plus they are called guilds) And 2) because I struggle to envision a small private armed force of martial fighters being good enough to turn the tide in a war that includes a single caster. I'm not terribly sure that mercenaries would be worth gathering together under the same banner, unless they had magic themselves. At which point, why wouldn't the magic users and supernal fighters strike out with a proper guild to gain better pay and local renown? I suppose there's also the third reason too: that I try not to ramble for too long! Lol Good points, though. I may well be wrong here. -Tom

[@rikusauske]

Yeah if it was a real world adventurer. But in fantasy games there's more nuance in what you'd hire, like spellcasters, artificers, big monster slayers, etc. An adventurers guild would probably focus on not just being a place to hire specialized or niche labor but also would certify the skills of the people hired. Possibly also being liable for collateral, workers compe, or burial costs

[@lolanashbringer]

@@Grungeon_Master It's a minor disagreement on style more than anything. You argued your points well. Just to address your two thoughts though. 1. Probably should be a hybrid of the two. One where there is a constancy of work, but enough free time for players to purse their own interests and explore a bit. Giving the party plenty of room to run with their play style. 2. Oh I think adventures guild would be super important in tides of battles. They have experience no one else has, tools that no one else really has. They would have their own wizards and clerics making them even more invaluable to warring lords/nations.

[@lolanashbringer]

@@rikusauske Why wouldn't these things be a part of an adventuring guild structured like a free company? Do think that they would turn away spellcasters or artificers?

[@michaelborror4399]

Sounds like you'll need some backstories ready for guilds, adventurer's guild definitely puts a more positive spin on mercenary work, as borror's were hesse kassel mercenaries when they came to america, talking about all the work of the old guilds, I'd think we'd all be waiting for our bump helmets in the mail, with our goggles, ballistic helmets can definitely get fatiguing after awhile though. I've found storytelling with less characters can help with keeping track of what's going on in the beginning and spectator immersion and alot of people often forgetting their own kids names, at least most of the time for me.

[@benjrc3611]

In my d&d setting, the adventures guilds became a lot like PMCs. Over a long period of relieve peace they grew board and ended up going to war with one another over small grudges. Over a period of 5 years the guilds fought eachother until the empire finally had enough and sent their real armies in to put the guilds down. Now there is a ban on adventuring guilds resulting in more and more monsters showing up in the countryside.

[@SusCalvin]

In the OD&D game loop, the world was wilderness with civilized dots of light. If you didn't patrol the boundaries of civilization the wilderness would start to encroach again. You walked around in a world with fallen ruins of the last civilizations around you. The player characters could clear out a hex on the map and make it safe by chasing off monsters along with their goons. The crew should have a company of dudes at that point, and be ready to build a stronghold. The security of this stronghold attracts tenant farmers. Towns and villages spring up, a city grows around the stronghold. The hexes nearby are still awful monster-riddled darkness so you keep patrolling and fending them off. Now with even more companies of dudes and new low-level retainers. The baroness in the starter town did the exact same thing. She knows all the tricks you little shits can pull because she and her now-courtiers went through the same shit themselves. They and their goons had to carve the starter town from nothing, and patrol it themselves. You had to think "What would king Conan or Elric do if a weird scorpion-thing showed up outside their city? Wait and hope some rag-tag adventurers fixed it?"

[@mikecerutti4721]

Just found your channel and I love it! You’re helping me make my D&D world so much better!

[@charlestillerson1510]

To me an adventurers guild serves a variety of purposes, but a key one is regulation of a group of people with the abilities of a private army. That’s scary for anyone in power, especially when you consider that a high level Magic Caster with no official ties to the community or presence in local records is a problem waiting to happen.

[@Lapran3]

I know it’s kind of a cliche and odd suggestion but a very good example ironically is the Hidden Village leadership system in Naruto. The various “villages” are essentially groups of ninja clans that have formed mercenary guilds/unions, managing tasks and jobs given by nobles and other clients. And yes, it is acknowledged that autonomous mercenary unions (especially ones big enough to form their own city-state) have a lot of potential to be dangerous

[@theazureknight9399]

Adventurer's guilds being prolific in Japanese fantasy makes a lot of sense considering how Japanese society works. Japanese salarymen and OL culture probably makes it so that the idea of being an employee of an adventurer's guild where you rise the ranks and get paid more with each promotion probably resonates more with the Japanese audience in comparison to the usual freelance adventurers we see in western fantasy.

[@Ishlacorrin]

I think a big reason that Adventurer guilds would exist is because most lords/nobles/royalty in charge of an area will not want too many 'un-accounted for' armed warriors in their lands. If people are not allowed to be heavily armed/armoured without being a member of the lords army/town guard then an Adventurers guild might be required to allow an exception. Therefore most adventurers guilds should be under partial control of the local lord, they might be allowed to exist and accept most work as long as they answer the lords call in emergencies and will likely have to pay a tax just to exist. On the other hand they will be given the lords protection in their lands and anyone NOT in the guild would be considered an outlaw.

[@The_Custos]

Goblin slayer gets around this by there being all sorts of threats and problems nobles and the military do not want to deal with if they can: goblins, the undead, cults, burrowing giant worms, dark elves, and dungeon exploration. Adventurers have real roles, and are tax exempt because many die on their first mission.

[@cannyjim908]

This has been unbelievably informative. Thank you!

[@levonleban6252]

A centralized government with a professional army might not look kindly upon an adventurers guild.

[@Tupadre97]

could a centralized government with a professional army even stop an adventurers guild? that's the real question.

[@ThW5]

Or they might... an adventurer's guild could take care of many of the reasons why towns, cities and local lords and ladies would start to form their own powerful armies.

[@SusCalvin]

@@Tupadre97 In Forgotten Realms, the people running nations are high-level as well. Any adventurers who get uppity would need to think "Could we take out king Conan?"

[@SusCalvin]

@@ThW5 The growing nation-states of Europe did away with that, bit by bit. Most states try to establish a monopoly on violence. No one wants to be a client for someone else with an army. Smaller groups get crushed between them. We found that the early modern period is pretty fun because it still has these military-entrepreneur types going around and contracting with different crowns. Like an officer cadre would get a stipend to raise a regiment for a campaign and then disband it. And the soldiery itself would generally be more loyal to a steady wage than the national cause of a far-off crown. In Mutant, there is an army branch that does underground combat. The nation of Pyri uses them to clear bunkers. The Ancients left a heckin ton of bunkers and vaults behind. There is a national exploratory agency that tries to map the world. They're mostly active on the frontier and in defending the large cities. There's still a lot of room for big game hunters and explorers.

[@weylins]

For centralized governments, adventurers are a gods' send. In most settings the cost to equip and maintain groups similar to most adventurers would drain the treasury fast... real fast. Compare the costs of some magical items to the cost of a castle, many are more expensive. And without that expensive kit, the nation's military would have horrific losses against the problems most adventurers tackle. Even a warband of trolls would tear through a platoon of heavy infantry. A guild could be something imposed on adventurers by various nations to have at least some control and accountability... however tenous.

[@SuperMunchkin1000]

I just found this channel and wow you create incredible content. I’d love for you to do another deep dive on guilds!

[@PilferpupCartoons]

Youre content is always so awesome and informative. Love it. Im really great with character designs, but still learning the nuance of world building, thanks for these videos!

[@sylvan-tomfoolery]

You have such a soothing, audiobookable voice. This video was well thought out, perfect listening while I make bread. Subscribed!

[@petrhala9830]

In our game, we had an organisation which really worked more as the "hub for quests" instead of a real guild, but its main function apart from the hub was to make sure the contract is followed through. From both sides. If the adventurer fails, he must repay a fine (the standard was the size of contract), but also to make sure the questgiver actually does pay. And to help renegotiate, if the quest turns out to be a bigger deal than expected. Funny thing is we as players used the guild as questgivers quite often too. Sometimes you, a "master adventurer", travel on a bigger quest and do not know the locality well, you do want to hire some local subcontractors, mainly for intel - i.e. if we (players) run out of ideas how to find something, instead of the DM "pushing us to the right direction", we would simply hire help with the intel and than do the fighting ourselves.

[@jazminetoad]

This is very informative, I'm subscribing to learn more and for later reference for my future novels.

[@gronkiusmaximus]

Mentioning mercenary companies reminds me of the game Battle Brothers. You can do fantasy stuff like hunting down a "Lindwurm" or just escort a merchant caravan

[@ozandis127]

Awesome video man, I really enjoyed it

[@4bluekitty]

This was very insightful for story driven fantasy projects- amazing video!

[@tjcross2]

ONly half way through but this gives me so many ideas, especially for systems with set components costs like D&D where lore wise, The costs for the components are set and monitored by the guild so members can reliably cast spells, and buying 'non-guild' components may be cheaper, but require a lot more knowledge to ensure the components are accurate to the spells need.

[@Hazy_Heart]

Thanks for this video. I found it very helpful for creating details for my own adventurer's guilds

[@blanktm228]

Thank you once again for your perspective on matters. It is greatly appreciated