Should Honkai: Star Rail Buff Old Characters?

[@AndrewNajash]

Silver wolf should be able to choose the weakness implant, it shouldn’t be random. Prayge

[@HeyItsme-c8x]

Tbh for me that's fine .. but the debuff run out fast (i think i forgot) haven't use her much .. and is single target.. which is yikes

[@quansz]

AOE implant

[@sakuseihuoshen]

I'm fine with random, make it AoE instead.

[@FabulousHen]

Tbh, I think it should be omni weakness meaning it is all weaknesses in 1. Most new dps ignore or implant their own weakness anyway so it shouldn't be that powerful considering it is single target and all enemies have so much speed

[@noreakseymeang5641]

@@HeyItsme-c8x fyi her def shred debuffs last for 3 turns, whereas Pela's last for 2 turns

[@Lol-Lol0]

How to buff old character? JUST GET BOBIN! ~quote from our Rank 1 HOYO SHILL

[@DobinSergei]

UPD for nowadays: Just get Sunday.

[@Hououin818]

Yes they should, rerun units will never match the profit of a new one unless they're a really strong sp or a fan favourite. There's literally no excuse to not buff an old unit, in fact it's even more profitable to buff old characters

[@giangtrinhtruong7952]

Huh? What I am seeing from your is "Yes, no. Yes, yes.". And what profits better than a brand new one?

[@TheJH1015]

@@giangtrinhtruong7952 they say "Yes, unless they're already insanely good and futureproof. Yes, yes.".

[@giangtrinhtruong7952]

@TheJH1015 Ah I see, thanks

[@handleloverkira]

But why buff older unite just give a new form new gameplay to the older unit that's way more profitable and hype

[@TheJH1015]

@@handleloverkira except it isn't? People are connected to the characters they know. Which means they're also more likely to spend and vertically invest if their favourites become pretty good in the endgame mode again.

[@NamRuto]

only E1 Bobin can solve the crisis for old units so PULL FOR E1 BOBIN GUYS 🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@Ben-v6z3s]

That nickname is just cringe (sorrynotsorry)

[@xxiroel]

This is so true lol.

[@crazyturbo4286]

I tried twice. Lost 50/50 both times lmao.

[@Laktystyk]

Already did

[@Tiku-]

Are you speaking Singaporean with identity crisis Chinglish?

[@ElatedSphee]

Personally, removing Resurgence's limitation of not triggering if already in resurgence state but also giving it a 20-50% chance to trigger after an attack if it doesn't kill would be nice. a simple change and she can live up to her meme of it constantly being her turn.

[@valkenhayn412]

rng triggers are terrible

[@namieblinker5922]

Nah, just keep resurgence full time period, no RNG triggers or repetition limits.

[@startea0412]

​@@valkenhayn412but it's better, then no triggers at all.

[@crackerjack2831]

Let me say this, we have not seen seele in banner for more than a year

[@giangtrinhtruong7952]

Last was 1.4

[@LucasGomes-ng2go]

they know she wouldn't sell

[@andribayu-v2t]

Classic Honkai creep rail.. Now player base going reduce.. And back to old habit playing genshin impact. If Wuthering wave will following by increase inflation hp Boss/Monster make sure will fast to EOS/be like honkai impact 3..

[@Caganonan67]

​@@andribayu-v2tno it wont we get it you like genshin but like you dont have to mention it every hour

[@DobinSergei]

​@@LucasGomes-ng2go I wonder, do they plan something on her in future, or they just give up trying? 🤔

[@yeetusdeletus3072]

It's frustrating how the devs are literally FORCING everyone to pull for newer characters. So if you dropped HSR for a while and your character gets left behind. Good luck having fun with the game. You're not coming back. Instead of increasing difficulty devs should focus on the "fun-ability" of the game by introducing new mechanics, perk style and new game modes etc. Instead of leaving old units in the dust. No one's having fun by increasing HP each damn patch. Seriously did devs really think the game would be more fun by making enemies more dmg sponge?? Let the old units perform still significantly without having to be forced to pull niche units just for the sole purpose of hyper focusing on 1 unit. At this rate we'll be having 1 billion hp bosses and the older units will just DIE. If you're not playing HSR as a living you're eternally fcked. It heavily dis-incentivizes players who play the game casually and loyal to their "preferred" units. If every damn patch you're lowkey FORCED to pull or you get left behind. That feeling of being left behind in the game? Yeah that's the reason why people don't ever come back to some games. That is NOT fun.

[@Lew98765]

Totaly agree, I think at some point the only way to enjoy HSR without whaling or pulling every new unit is gonna be to just ignore end game if they keep their stupid powercreep + HP inflation trend Its sad because if units were more balanced they could just alternate between different gameplay type buffs, but with HP inflation difference between newer and older dps is insane

[@colonelcider8292]

Players literally complain when the difficulty is too easy... Also, what does fun-ability even mean? Fun is subjective. What I find fun might not be fun for you... Increasing the hp isn't even a problem when the MoC buff is good. Just makes it more difficult to 0 cycle As for forcing players to pull new characters. Is this new? From the beginning of the game, you had to pull new characters. Are we pretending that the 4 stars are on the same level as Seele? Returning players can still clear most content in the game with their old characters. 1.0 characters can still comfortably clear MoC 10 and 11 within 30 cycles unless you have shit builds. A returning player is basically a new player. Why'd you'd expect to clear content for people who are keeping up to date with the game? If you are a returning player, clearing story, doing the events, and doing most of the endgame content, you'd be fine with As for playing HSR for a living... That's just dumb Cause to keep up is literally losing in and do dailies (half an hour most) and play events for additional currencies. To be left behind its not playing causally, you're just not playing at all Also what do you mean neiche units? That's basically just Jade for pure fiction and even then Jade isn't absolutely necessary for that content...

[@hoangnguyen0721]

Hoyo isnt forcing anyone to roll anything, 1.x dps still doing plenty fine in recent MoC/PF/AS like instead of 1-2 cycles they clear in 4-5 cycles. Fucking Himeko can 5 cycle the new boss with just 4 stars support. Also Hoyo been adding a lot of mechanic based boss,Hoolay,Banamusement,Aventurin, the upcoming 3.0 MoC boss etc, all requires you to play in a specific way and not "just press the funny button". Like we gonna get the biggest HP inflation by 3.0 (it had 9 million total HP) yet that boss can still be 0 cycled by Acheron at 4 cost. So Hoyo knows what they are doing when they increasing HP and not just "more HP for the sake of more HP". Considering "saving accounts" isnt a popular content in EN community, im not surprise if you people barely know how to play according to boss mechanics

[@pikaachoo3888]

But people told me that Hoyo is a godly company that cares about its players!!!! Sarcasm behind, lol HP inflation in HSR and ZZZ removing TV and separate Ults this late in the game's life. Devs didn't listen

[@ItsBiox]

@@colonelcider8292 oh hell nah there's no way you said hp inflation trend in isn't even a problem. you only said the MoC buff is good because the current buffs deals damage what if the MoC buff doesn't do damage?

[@kirb1385]

It takes only 1 or 2 pulls to get E1 Bobin guys

[@midnightroyal8953]

It's not even a question, Hoyo NEEDS to start buffing old characters. It's a thing many other gachas do, Hoyo is the odd one out here.

[@DobinSergei]

Oh they never do ever.

[@nighthawk47]

It would be cool if we got a new character that is way faster then seele in 3.x but scaled off of speed better than she does 🤔

[@giangtrinhtruong7952]

That'd be surprising!!!

[@esaualfaro3447]

Wow! It would be cool if that happened! But I know it won´t because Seele is the QUEEN of Spd!!!!!!!!

[@Ghalion666]

Seele's lightcone would probably be better for that character than it is for Seele then =P

[@katakuri7526]

so aglea basically... the true speed queen

[@tdof7217]

Bro some characters don't even perform a few patches later, as a day 1 player I have characters I didn't finish building by the time they got powercrept

[@nilmerg]

as a day 1 player who kept using JY even after kafka & acheron, that's a you problem. i even didn't play the game for some weeks in 1.2. you just have to have some sh*t luck w/ relics or something.

[@Biocdon]

@@nilmerg Shitluck meaning his experience is invalid? He got fucked by the game and that's it also the powercreep will get JY again JimmyChungus will suck when new summon dps arrives...

[@Nanadyne]

@@nilmerg How is that their problem?? You literally just said it yourself, relics are a big part in a character being able to perform. You don't need to mixmax your relics but you need solid ones to keep up. That's something out of any player's control.

[@nilmerg]

@@Nanadyne having bad relics is a separate problem from character powercreep

[@LucasDerze]

FGO has a Rank up mechanic where old characters can become relevant again with skill buffs

[@devilmeicry6967]

They could try to work out something like Elysian Realm in HI3 that has character specific buffs so there is still at least a place to use and have fun with powercrept units.

[@asyrafyuanata6027]

if remembrance's character have a summon that can combine or synergy with old char, i think that would be cool.

[@fl-flunky]

I expect Seele to get a dedicated support soon, seeing as Jingyuan js got one(im coping) also i think an easy way to make seele already way better is make her resurgence count as a fua. Like why doesnt it already count as that? Plus it makes her available to moze, march 8th, aventurine, bobin, sunday. Of course she'd need more buffs than js that but even thay would already improve her

[@Niclerx]

That concept is... not great imo. The debuff stacks are way too hard to apply (1 skill point for 1 debuff and you need 10, what?). The damage of skill and basic is non existent unless you give her insane multipliers that would ruin the "big ult" concept itself. What I would change is -Stacks increase the damage taken by enemies when hit by Seele. Max of 5 stacks. -Basic and Skill apply 1 stack BEFORE HITTING. -Ultimate applies 2-3 stacks. -When an enemy dies apply 1-2 stacks to all enemies. I feel like Seele is not a "big ult" character, but a "lots of attacks" one, so giving her a reason to attack multiple times and making each attack count is better than waiting for a big single target ult.

[@sakuseihuoshen]

Sounds like something an upcoming character might have as a kit, not sure though(The He-*cough*)

[@0v_x0]

I agree with the 3 team content thing, with stage buffs that prioritize older chars in at least one of the 3 fights. I'm getting a little tired of using E2 Acheron and E1 Feixiao to clear every single endgame mode since patch 2.5. any other clears are less efficient and only done for novelty because it's the only time I get to use the other characters except for like MoC 7-11 when I intentionally use weaker teams just to give those characters any life at all beyond "how much slower will they clear floor 12/stage 4 than my high investment teams."

[@Andaull-s1b]

might be a terrible take but they could just add eidolons to base kit and make new ones

[@Lew98765]

I think they are indeed slowly bringing back old character Meta is never progressung in a straight line, its more like a kind of loop that goes back and forth between different gameplay archetype and buff a selected amount of units (whenever they want to sell them again lol) But on the other hand.. JingYuan always had good dmg.. he just had a huge speed issue with his summon... Seele and many old chars have a dmg issue.. its hard to imagine a buff limited to them... also HP inflation is really hindering their potential.. unless you whale on these chars it feels hard to make them catch up..

[@XortSince1999]

Jing yuan dmg wasnt that good tbh That 40% damage multiplier is HUGE for him

[@HeyItsme-c8x]

I feel like the reason they buff jingyuan because jingyuan is move loved on CN and summon meta is just good to miss out .. where the summon could have been anything.. could be dragon,pegasus,ape and etc

[@sakuseihuoshen]

​@@HeyItsme-c8xBut Seele is also loved in CN, she's played by many people and is used as a skill checker. Like, as of right now, she can still be used to 0-cycle MoC 12 with Robin and Sparkle(also Tingyun, might even get updated with Sunday) ofc.

[@TimWetherspoon]

@@sakuseihuoshen I mean tbf any DPS can 0-cycle with robin. That's not really a good way to see if a character is actually falling off or not.

[@HeyItsme-c8x]

@@sakuseihuoshen what ranking she is in CN .. I know I seen seele 0 cycle with Sunday before Sunday release

[@deviant315l6]

You could give her an execute talent for her useless trace that do max HP dmg that’s capped against elites based or something (3-5%) true dmg something, doesn’t have to be ATT. I can be a stack mechanic where you have to get kills or use ult to gain stacks. This makes it an extra single target nuke or to increase her resurgence. With something like this speed, energy and whatever the true dmg scales off will be more important. It should trigger from all parts of her kit

[@MrVoldross]

Here's a fix, either out in 3 team content like pokke said or disrupt all team composition standards and make 5 slot team content with 1 extra skill point added to the bar. You'll either be forced to use different archetypes and this more characters to fill out that last team or use older characters that find new synergy with that one extra piece of the puzzle being available

[@Marz776]

I think it's so much easier to buff seele. Make her ult do 3 hits and bump up the multiplier to 600 and make her trigger resurgence always when hitting the ult, stackable if killing to have 2 resurgences. Change her bad trace for one that gives 2.5 crit rate and 5 crit damage per 10 spd that surpasses 100 uncapped (so her lc is just extra stuff for meeting that and her E2 is actually great)

[@WaifusAreReal]

This time Apocalyptic shadows has a buff that buffs quantum characters by 60%.

[@andribayu-v2t]

Dont get happy. Patch 3.0 who know if boss MoC will reach 10M hp and more deff.. Are you still play this shit power creep game? You pay to lose btw

[@andribayu-v2t]

You invest 3k dollar than get power creep with new unit E0S0.. That was suck game

[@jassonchen]

When Seele has her action advanced, her next skill does not cost a skill point. Works with support action advance and her resurgence. Or make it a % chance that scales 1:1 with the action advance value. Her resurgence buff honestly shouldn’t be wasted on a basic.

[@TheBenny9850]

While i agree in part that hp inflation is a bit too fast right now, i also think some people are too harsh with the game and not understanding some inherently flaws with there reasoning. First of all without hp inflation, with boss having the hp they had in 1.x version, some unit right now could literally oneshot it without much effort. They are slowly releasing not only new strong characters, but also set and other way to deal with the enemies, like free imaginary trailblazer and hunt march. Even seele with new supports can reach easily a high amount of damage and complete the content where she needs. Also a lot of people dont realize that rasing the bar in other ways, aside hp inflation, could be really dangerous and frustating, like imagine they make a boss with lower hp, but that need absolutely dot or fua to be completed due to its mechanics. Every player who invested vertically in one playstyle because they liked them or skip some characters, because they didnt like them, would be fucked (maybe you didnt pull for dot, or you began after 2.1 and you dont have ratio, and neither feixiao). All in all surely 2.x unit are stronger in a vacuum, but with team synergies even old unit can clear content if the blessing favours them. Another thing is endgame, especially the last floor in every mode, is supposed to be hard, where the players who like to min max and makes the best build they can proves themselves. If you are a new player or a player that doesnt play much it is quite normal to not clear moc 12, but that content is not catered towards you anyway. And there is nothing bad if you dont manage to clear moc 12, the reward in jades are really few (it is barely a pull every two week). You can just enjoy other part of the game more casually, without stressing much about having 3 star for the hardest difficulty. Surely i dont think hoyo is the perfect company, very far from it. And i would be happy for some buff directly to underperforming unit right now. A problem for me is they release too much characters, so maybe people fell powercreep is unbearable for that. But if you think about it among acheron, firefly, and feixiao there is not much difference powerwise. I honestly dont think other effective ways to increase difficulty faitly without hp inflation being a factor, but if someone have a suggestion i am glad to change idea. I am always open for fresh prospective:)

[@actrose4272]

I think Seele can be easily fixed with something other than just Bobin. 1) Make a Harmony support that gives buffs based on the character's speed 2) Make relic sets that give you like a 1,1 to 1,3 times increase to your multipliers for hitting certain speed breakpoints (for example 135/170/200) or let's the character ignore defense based on the same premise Make it so Seel can make use of having >140 speed without substats or speed boots. I mean at least give her a new artifact set, she is still rocking Quantum (1.0) and Rutilent Arena (1.2)

[@omatsu-v5r]

they could literally take the EZA concept of dokkan battle units, old units have shit passive skills so using an EZA the unit can gain new life yet again, a simple boost of ratios and maybe a fix of an issue of the unit's design (like the get targeted less part) for something more useful (like passive crit rate +20)

[@Hazkal-ep3zs]

Speaking of dokkan, I wish they made teq ulthan type of characters in hsr. Idk how that character will be balanced cause the existence of robin, sunday, sparkle and bronya but it'll be fun to see.

[@sct77]

That kit is just a mess, Seele's biggest problem is the fact that she lacks an archetype and this didn't fix that problem in any way. At this point she looks more like an Acheron support than a hunt hypercarry. It's better to just give her a support that converts speed into res pen or something like that and give that support an ultimate that gives units a buff that stacks on every turn taken by that dps and it adds true dmg to all of their hits based on the amount of stacks.

[@FifthWorldProblem]

3 teams content, 3 times the powercreep. Thank you MrPokke, truly genius

[@CombatrifleX]

At this point, it's not about HP inflation, old units get powercrept man, it's just we need to git good, not lose 50/50 every single time, do 10 pulls and get E6 supports to get old units relevant again.

[@kook3585]

0:50 "the dot archetype can still 0 cycle" - yea only when you have e2s1 the whole fucking archetype lmao, as a dot main with e2s1 kafka balckswan and robin, its still difficult to 0 cycle

[@MeghGireesh]

What if instead of having an exponential increase on her ultimate. Just make it so that butterfly flurry increases damage of basic skill and ultimate with by adding an extra instance of damage scaling of the amount of damage that was done times 10-100% depending on the #of stacks on the enemy.

[@gancyr3D]

Another option is to make it so killing an enemy adds that enemy's stacks to the enemy with the highest hp and doubles them. Basically keeping her ult rotation the same as it is now (since mobs can take multiple turns to kill in some situations), but with more damage while still giving her kill mechanic influence in her kit.

[@Oyamada13]

Here's a idea no one thought of. Why not make a special LC that slots into old character's LC. Is like Game Genie back in the console years. The special LC will add additional effects on their talent, skill, and Ult. Also make it a special event that rotates to earn the special LC and you only use old characters to complete. I doubt Hoyo will make drastic changes to the old character but they could add new feature to enhance the old character.

[@EveZalines]

In Genshin rerun banners work quite well, because many older characters are still very relevant...so I don't think it would be bad for business to keep older characters strong...Most people pull characters, because they like them after all. But feeling like losing out, for pulling a character you like, would just stop you from pulling in the future....

[@Ghalion666]

The problem with buffing old characters is that some will be buffed more than others, or some will be made meta and not others, and then people will feel ripped off when a character they don't have/like was re-made meta and theirs wasn't. I think a better solution would to give 1 or 2 free Eidolon consumeables that only work for 1.x characters or whatever for people to use as they please, as well as 1.x free 5* lightcone selectors. A better still solution (though I do think we should get a 1.x lightcone selector regardless), I think is to make extensions of end-game content so you need a 3rd team instead of 2, but on one of the 3 groups 1.x characters get buffs. Or that the 3rd group has easier, lower hp baddies, but the resonsance gives debuffs to 2.x characters. repeat each major version update, etc.

[@intem333]

Silver wolf should have skill and ult be blast at least, that alone would be amazing, and maybe her passive can Steal stats from the enemy and apply them to the team, i.e. -10% def for enemy and +10% for your team. Mostly the Aoe options allowing her to actually be a 5* debuffer.

[@omikamiz568]

Consider Remembrance path character has 2 additional skills. They could use this 2 extra skill to buff the old characters if they want too.

[@0v_x0]

it's a nice fantasy that they'll ever buff old kits, but this is a good cook (I prefer the pokke edit, but I think 10% crit rate on ult is a better compromise, 100% cdmg on top of all other buffs is a lot, and still wasted if missed crit, but 10% is actually reasonable and doesn't imply a scuffed-ass build)

[@Marz776]

25:55 Making old character better is a good move on a greedy money standpoint because you get twice the characters to sell, you can put seele on a banner, people will summon, people will get eidolons, people will get her lc, old players that have her might try to go for eidolons and will feel better for having her. They should just do like FGO

[@DobinSergei]

But so it would be harder to make new characters attractive. Would be character inflation.

[@pikaachoo3888]

But these people told me that Hoyo is a godly company tha always listens to its players!!!!! *Stares at HSR hp inflation and late removal of ZZZ TV system and implementation of separate ults*

[@sakuseihuoshen]

Uhuh… have you seen the video about HP inflation in HSR? It's not a lot at all, because they usually have mechanics that lets you kill them. Most are tied to the MoC buff, which 0-cyclers don't like though and that's fine(0-cycling isn't advised by Devs at all lol).

[@Aiden-iy9du]

Can you stop spamming ret @rd

[@jofromthething]

I remember watching a video when the game came out saying that Steele could probably never e power crept because resurgence was so strategically strong that she’d always be relevant 😔

[@DobinSergei]

Fatter mobs = cannot kill a mob = no trigger = completely useless.

[@g4bm4nxd26]

It could be good to make that for each stack of Butterfly Flurry you gain crit rate up to 25% or more, So it would be worth saving the ult to hit a crit 🗣️

[@Dumb_Plushie]

Recently I've been getting lucky at pulling men from the gacha. I cannot wait to try and pull Seele and Silverwolf, only to get fucked the hell up by my spent luck.

[@ashgrun]

honestly i think seele would be more useable if her resurgence was on skill usage/ult usage rather than on kill

[@Elfoten]

yes, for seele - When seele gets a extra turn, the extra turn doesnt consume skill points and she can get extra turns on extra turns.

[@juanjox2006]

0:21 what is a yanqing ?

[@invertbrid]

They probably should, and will eventually. If they still want sell older character that is. After 3.0 there will be barely any reason to pull 1.x characters anymore. They can just do what the other game, HI3rd did. Releasing new weapon (in this case, LC) alongside few kit buff. So ppl who already have the older characters prob will still pull new LC, generating em some money.

[@SeongJeonHwan]

0:47 wasn't dot team already being helped by jiaoqiu tho??

[@Saredyus]

Jiaoqiu only helped Acheron's Ult Stack

[@Mikaela_77]

They been buffing JY for 2 years now, why cant they vuff soneone else

[@colonelcider8292]

Well cause its not actually a JY buff... Jing Yuan got buffed as a byproduct in most cases. Only time he got a buff for him was when they released the follow up set.

[@Mikaela_77]

It may seem that way but I can tell you for certain that 80% of all those buffs were made with JY specifically in mind. Every single patch since his release has had a character or relic set that he benefits from.

[@Mikaela_77]

And now they've finally released Sunday as the final piece under the disguise of summon meta/hypercarry

[@sct77]

A lot of JY buffs were only buffs because his team consisted of two old 4 stars, it's hard for anything new to not be better than that. Meanwhile Seele was able to use Bronya and basically any other support.

[@sakuseihuoshen]

​@@sct77 *is, she's able to use almost every single support rn lol

[@nickarooroo6397]

Hoyo really needs to do like other gacha’s and at the very least go back and slightly buff multipliers/base stats of old characters so that they’re not SO far behind newer ones. If anything it could make Hoyo more money bc it makes it more likely for people to pull eidolons on older characters. Idk why they refuse to do this.

[@EjderOfMah]

They just need to expand max level to 90 and give each character a new passive, which would make a little bit more balanced roster

[@justinc882]

I'd love to see it but I don't think they will. I believe the only "buff" given in Genshin was to Zhong Li, (they tried to tweak Yae Miko and it didn't work). They've said in the past they prefer to buff characters through interaction with other units and relic sets. Personally there's a lot of units from early game that need tweaks. Silverwolf is absolutely useless, I can't remember the last time I used Loucha, Seele is beautiful and fun but doesn't hit hard enough (imo) be really be useful with the way her mechanics work. Jing Liu is still my favorite DPS but she's fallen off hard. They could do it in game, have Seele train real hard and unlock high multipliers as a way to explain her power shift. I don't ask for them to be SSS tier but usable would be nice.

[@TOTGodofWar]

I still use SW a decent amount, but I also got lucky and got her E1 very early.

[@sakuseihuoshen]

I mean, Seele is still usable(although only through the method they said they buffed older characters).

[@raydaug4633]

Silver Wolf's problem is basically unfixable at this point. Even if they introduced a truly single target boss (that don't punish you for being single target like Aventurine), there are too many units now that can ignore elemental weakness. Silver Wolf's value is letting you use units off element, but they can just do that themselves now. Luocha just needs more characters like Blade to be relevant again. It's easy to dismiss his healing abilities when most characters cap at around 3k health, but give us a team of 6k+ HP units and he'll be a lot more attractive.

[@justinc882]

@@raydaug4633 I think Loucha's main issue is w/o eidolons he's only really there to stand there and be pretty, giving oh shit heals/cleanse. He lacks utility that other limited 5 stars have IMO. SW I agree, between ignore element or self implant (Firefly) her niche has been given to most dps.

[@justinc882]

@@sakuseihuoshen I'll have to dust mine off, I tried her awhile ago and it was sad. She just doesn't have the multipliers if she can't one shot things.

[@davidwright9684]

Its cheaper for them to buff an old character and make her great. Also, just buff older characters and run their banners next to new characters. They'll more than likely sell more because you have new character hype, but then you also have people who pulled and like seele be pumped and would prolly pull her dupes if she was more relevant. It seems like money left on the table if they have these rerun banners but no real incentive to pull them if they've kind of fallen to the wayside. If they buffed seele and ran her on a banner next to a character that im not interested in pulling, im more likely to pull for her instead of hoarding and dumping it all on a future character

[@a.r5235]

I mean jing yuan was able to 2 cycle the 3.0 moc with 2 cost whereas aglea with the same team took 3 so the devs do know how to balance just it takes too long

[@jawman0]

To buff Seele is very easy i could probably make one on the fly: Whenever her passive procs Seele can select another unit to attack again and this attack is considered as follow up attack so it doesnt consume a skill point. Can only be triggered once per turn for Each Attack type Basic/Skill/Ultimate. When using her out of battle skill, if she attacks someone she always takes the first turn regardless of speed stats and this attack is considered as follow up attack. When Seele uses her ultimate on a weakness broken enemy, said enemy instantly takes the accumulated entanglement damage but does not remove entanglement. But knowing mihoyo's track record when it comes to old banner characters the chances of old characters getting an actual buff is miniscule, mihoyo always buffs old characters through the use of a new character that "FIXES" the old character's issue, Sunday for example is a "FIX" for old Summon type characters that have units that have their own turns.

[@firework8140]

I dont know if you notice, they also only buff the "leader" of in game China. Take Zhongli for example. No character get direct rework like Zhongli. No character get as much buff as Jing Yuan.

[@jawman0]

@@firework8140 Yeah that's the only time they buffed something in their game that i know off, most are just "FIXES" which one way or another nerfs something.

[@sakuseihuoshen]

​@@firework8140I mean, Neuvillette got nerfed at one point but Chinese players complained so they kept his original(or maybe even buffed him)

[@ScientistA]

Cant wait for 3 team content where if you dont pull Lingsha Aventurine and Huo Huo your team is gonna get CC-ed until 8 cycles against 20 million HP bosses!

[@camokiler]

Seele's best and most realistic buff she could get is being put in the standard banner

[@laughingd4518]

U want to buff seele? Just increase her multipliers and call it a day.

[@jhemp]

I don't think buffing old characters for reruns is that bad an idea. In fact, they can even create a new signature lightcone for the updated character so people who already have the character go for the new lightcone. No real lost revenue. Additionally, lets get modes in simulated universe that are element or path specific to continue make characters useful regardless and encourage building everyone. I'd caution 3 or 3+ team content because it starts to make things too complicated for newer players, but if you create content that requires specific elements or paths and lock them until late enough in the progression cycle it feels less oppressive. I just started when Yunli came out and I'm not sure i would have continued playing if i had 3 team content to clear personally. Look at afk arena or raid shadow legends to see how you could make more content as a way to drive interest in old characters.

[@flawedname]

Just make the rates better on old characters. Like the 10% increase to win the 50/50 per time they return. Even if they had a 100% chance to get a seele right now, would people even pull?

[@DobinSergei]

They wouldn't even bother wasting pulls on dead characters, as they already in tight for new shiny.

[@lihnoikari]

Trust me you guys don't want buff for old chars, it just lead to more inflation, and they can start use it as a way to sell reruns. Small changes in kits maybe but even that open the door for more problems

[@Osprey1994]

I'm used to old characters falling behind. I would not object to old characters being nudged up though.

[@ar2r3cki]

Banners are not about fixing old problems but selling new solutions to them.

[@shanaxis9074]

Doesn't Seele's skill hit like 5 times? that would mean it would only take 2 skills to get 10 stacks.

[@lilian59]

I am praying for this Seele buff to happen but I know it will never….

[@AdamJorgensen]

Hoyo already have plenty of experience doing this in HI3. They don't seem that interested in doing it in HSR because money.

[@ramkindalethal5253]

EZAs in hoyo games when? any dokkan dokkan players?

[@yaaa-kun]

I don't think just ezas are a good solution, i mean, they had to give Second ezas because they weren't effective lol

[@ramkindalethal5253]

@yaaa-kun EZA 6th year and eventual 7th year would like to have a word

[@furuderika8093]

wait till a support that makes DoT crit.

[@0v_x0]

I think the only real point of the speed buff on her skill is to clear 134 on ATK boots with no subs

[@0v_x0]

but I don't even have her so 🤷

[@sakuseihuoshen]

You're pretty much correct, but let's just say here's how she's played: Team Comp: Seele, Sparkle, Sunday, Robin/Bronya Care to guess how she attacks? Anyways, knowing how many times she can attack per cycle is letting me realize why her damage multiplier isn't that high…

[@fairiz375]

Them editors work fast huh

[@inokori7146]

they should, a lot of game do this, they never become top tier but they become usable they will not tho, HSR devs dont know how to balance a turn based rpg, its joever, ive come to the conclusion of not spending any more money and just clearing everything just 1 star away from max

[@kennethyoung7457]

Reduce enemy hp across the board all these problems you thought old units had were not problems before the hp inflation. You directly buff characters while the hp inflation is still ongoing that is just a band aid fix that will fall off in the next few patches anyway because the main problem is still there. 2.x characters did not have to completely destroy old characters would have been way better if it was like 5%-10% better at most but new teams are over 300% better than anything you could make in 1.x that is ridiculous.

[@gearhead-quarters30]

Reverse 1999 has become the only Gacha I fux with. Buffing old characters, including them in the pulling pool after 3 patches, no RNG for character building, etc etc etc. HSR has lost me after uninspiring writing, VAs dropping like flies, and just generally falling off.

[@JohnStamR]

Its fine, Seele will get 2.0 version (character not game version)... we just have to pull for another 5* :)

[@Kevin-rv8br]

Make Star Rail old units unc great again

[@DarkFire454]

"Do all these things to make Seele viable".. Or, hear me out, just make Resurgence not use any skill points so you can skill spam?

[@Sinister_Songs]

I feel like the argument that she preforms well, when ur using insane supports makes no sense. Like ofc she is useable, but replace her with anyone else and u will get 10x more value... Also sadly this kit is going to age like milk when u consider the new 3.0 characters, Algaea and Madam Herta, pretty much this whole revamp of her kit goes down the gutter... if you want an explanation read the rest of this comment. (AGLAEA, AND HERTA KIT SPOLERS FOR THE REST OF THIS COMMENT) If you want a speed focused dps u can just pull Aglaea she isnt just a remembrance unit, she is going to be the fastest character in the entire game, not even close (possible to get around 300 speed, not joking). Not to mention the "Nuker" playstyle is going to be what Madam Herta does so, this whole kit is going to be unoriginal and washed up when the 3.0 characters drop 💀. HAIL AGLAEA, HAIL MADAM HERTA! Hoyo is really trying nuke our fucking wallets with all these awesome ass new characters...

[@Skelliiie]

in what world are you 0 cycling with dot

[@lakatos0823]

whats wrong with loucha? 😭

[@Terrastrial]

make a series were you redesign old kits peak content

[@WSupreme]

The ammount of cope is crazy. Anyone will slap with E2 Robin or E2 Sparkle. Why not use a broom as DPS, just as good.

[@beobhan]

It is funny that you guys theoreycraft, but kinda useless because Hoyo never buffed or nerfed units to my knowledge.

[@TOTGodofWar]

Direct buffs were only done for Zhongli post release.

[@sakuseihuoshen]

I mean, they did make an entire system for older characters in HI3 but let's just say… it didn't work out too well, but hey, they tried 😆

[@Marbeary]

Sweet summer children gacha games' power creep is not a bug but a feature.

[@Sweetwaterdream]

They wont ever buff old characters as they want you pull new ones 😂. Theres no financial incentive to buff old characters.

[@anxiousheart69]

this is deviating too far from the original identity and core mechanics of the character, the 50% crit rate and stacking debuff just sounds so much like something someone would say that is still thinking inside the box, so unoriginal, just steal the mechanics of the characters that powercreept her so she can catch up. if you ask me, i'd suggest going all in on playing the identity of the worst dps that is always trying to catch up, a slow starter but have her become 'The Rank 1 Action Advance Crit DPS' by moving resurgence into the useless major trace and make a new talent that allows her to gain a stacking buff upon receiving action advance that increases the multipliers of her entire kit overall, but as a business its not right that they would do it for free and in one go right? if its a decision that hoyoverse would agree to, the numbers on that upgrade shouldn't be enough to do it, or it comes with some drawback like maybe how the buff expires, caps out, or something else, they'll surely try to farm the starving seele mains even more by letting the reworked version sit for a while, maybe a few reruns to sell eidolons and only after then release a dedicated support that only seele can fully take advantage of, this new dedicated support would be the fourth action advance harmony, but the unique mechanic would be that the action advance is only triggered on the character's turn who they gave the buff to, the complete opposite of how action advance harmony characters used to act as the speed of your dps so you can stack damage on them instead, but this new mechanic would mean more speed on your dps equals more action advance will happen, and more action advance means seele can keep stacking her talent buff for more damage and finally fix the character

[@watchkomicantcommunicate3079]

Mr Pokke did you know? Aventurine got shadow nerfed, his sheilds seems to be more weak since 2.7

[@factualbridge44]

It's a bug

[@soaringdragon3972]

300 free jades

[@promc2890]

Its a bug Hoyo acknowloged it and making an fix.

[@yuugael4010]

Should Honkai: Star Rail Buff Old Characters? NO hoyo need more money, hail Dawei, hail honkai, SPEND SPEND SPEND. jokes aside I don't think they will ever do this unless something drastic happen, and its not in their interest of buffing a character when they can just make a new one/better one/the upgrade of the previous character and people will still pull for them, theres a bigger chance of them making Red and white Seelee than old seelee being buff.

[@johnnywilson3071]

Long Answer: Yes they should.

[@LucasGomes-ng2go]

3 team comp is a terrible idea, old characters already cannot clear endgame, if you add a third team they will still not be able to, and now you have to build 3 new DPS. If this 3 team endgame was balanced so that old characters can also clear, sure, but lets be real, it won't be, its gonna be another banana shitshow all over again

[@CJ739]

The thing is, old characters can clear. Himeko owns 2nd half of stage 12, dot owns 1st half of stage 12. Jingliu owns aventurine in stage 11. Acheron/Ratio/DHIL own the bug in stage 11. Clearing in 2-3 cycles isn't a bad thing. If you mean they can't clear end game by they can't 0 cycle though, then I have no argument. Those units definitely aren't 0 cycling without mass eidolons on Robin/Ruan Mei/Sparkle to help them out. If you use on element characters with team comps that make sense and non scuffed builds you're fine. You also now have 42 days to clear instead of 2 weeks. This is a 0 cycle problem, not a clear problem.

[@LucasGomes-ng2go]

@@CJ739 data disagrees with you, look at prydwen, majority of 1.X DPS are not clearing or barely clearing endgame anymore

[@CJ739]

​@@LucasGomes-ng2go People choosing not to use old units because they don't clear as well does not mean they cannot clear. I 2 cycled MoC 12 with Himeko on 70/100 crit ratio, I 2 cycled Svarog with dot comp, 3 cycled aventurine with Jingliu, 3 cycled the bug with Ratio. The units are fine if you have decent relics and use viable comps. They aren't as strong as the new ones, but they can still clear as long as you use the blessing and a viable comp. Data on prydwen isn't going to make me doubt the reality I've experienced.

[@LucasGomes-ng2go]

@@CJ739 if you have eidolons, sure buddy

[@CJ739]

@@LucasGomes-ng2go Only Eidolons I have are for Firefly. You don't need them if you actually try building a viable team instead of bitching all the time.

[@sakutaro3musik486]

you deleted league for more preditory and watered down games, what a way to make bad decisions XD

[@fernandogallas7656]

Luoucha is the goat

[@feri4434]

3:19 🤓☝️ well actually... E6

[@ZakaiDontLie]

he KINDA cooked

[@unholyarthur1]

Her multiplier is just too low

[@nequitia4665]

They will, but you need to drain your wallet :D and before you defend them, many Gacha games buffing their old character wiithout scummy shit like honkai

[@mymumeatsdogs9066]

make old hsr characters great again

[@DizY_8]

Pri-Arms...

[@DobinSergei]

Bro should try better. What he considered here is just wouldn't work, and even does nothing with what actually needed.

[@nopputhihk848]

Yes, they should.

[@remu002]

nah i feel like this guy is clueless and doesnt really play starrail thats why completely overcooked and missed the point. i mean look at the background footage...