Why Hypercarry Units Are Struggling | Honkai: Star Rail

[@VarsII]

On the seventh day, He rested.

[@PERIPOXAMV]

Yeah, let's pretend we all don't know... But besides that, answering your question, if hypercarries or else: "Depends". Depends on what? *On which kind of characters the Fate collab will be* 113 days have passed ever since they made the 1st official announcement. Not a single pull spent. I have to get them all, E6S1, **whaling for once if neccesary** Althought, 7th day may be a good support for their kind, if rumors are true

[@RaikamiX]

On the eight day, he brought hypercarry back

[@ibrahim5463]

Making a video about hypercarries fall off right before the best hyper carry support comes out is diabolocal move

[@ulrikruby]

@@RaikamiX I don’t need him to bring anything back. My E2S1 Imbibitor Lunae is doing quite fine already.

[@RaikamiX]

@@ulrikruby i'll see you in 3.x

[@agzane268]

me finally saving enough to get a good dps: wow i can't wait for acheron rerun! Vars II:

[@zy2239]

She still goated… specially E6

[@Accountthatexists]

​@@zy2239"especially e6"💀💀 is certainly a sentence

[@spoons2275]

Yeah she’s still insane at all 3 end games

[@Accountthatexists]

Ngl, main reason to pull acheron nowadays......is time saving in DU/SU weeklies with the teqnuique

[@Glizzyman]

I mean shes still amazing tbf, especially if you have jiaoqui

[@Hououin818]

>Hoyo doesn't develop hypercarry because they don't want players to brute force content >Give 2.x dps weakness ignore/implants to let them brute force all content

[@wastelandking]

I think it makes sense with break DPS, since much of their damage is on break and when the enemy is in the break state, so breaking the enemy as fast as possible is a necessity with them. However, even if a character can do toughness damage regardless of enemy weakness, keep in mind that type res can still reduce the damage the enemy takes from that specific element. Try brute forcing Hoolay with Acheron, for instance. Not exactly a fun time.

[@nightshrine4257]

Except they never said that

[@fathansudardjat5824]

All hoyo wants is money. Anything goes as long as they get paid lmao

[@juliogomez2534]

In my eyes the problem is the focus, they dedicated the entirety of 2.x in break and fua leaving behind the rest to dry. People can argue about Black Swan and Hanabi but both released in 2.0 and have been the last each of those comps ever received. They needed to make releases more varied to have the 1.x units still feel relevant at this point cause currently it feels like each year they are gonna release a new engine with a new set of units that you have to get in order to keep up with the game. Sure you can clear with anything you have but there's a difference between clearing and enjoying it. At the rate we are going investing in dps seems like a massive waste of resources moving into 3.0

[@mihacimpric745]

This is a trend in Honkai tbh. Impact 3rd has that but on steroids. Every few months the old units will be completely eclipsed.

[@blursedpasta7718]

its same old introduce a problem and sell a solution

[@aaronscott7467]

I think the issue is more the lack of supports. An indirect buff such as through supports or items being added go much further than they would probably think, since there have only been something like 5 supports added since version 1. (Robin, sparkle, HMC, jiaoqiu, and Ruan mei. Correct me if I missed any.)

[@Pneuhmonia]

Who is hanabi?

[@dmar3651]

@@Pneuhmonia Sparkle's name in Japanese.

[@zakariamimouni279]

the timing of this video is diabolical XD

[@Disappointed_Rover]

Imma be honest . Im not watching Vars videos for contents . But for ASMR and so that I can sleep easily . Now it is 1:00 morning in my country

[@LiterallyAna]

Good Night and Sleep Well

[@stxrryd]

Goodnight bro

[@jackjohnson8305]

I watch him to get irritated

[@sizwenhari411]

😂😂😭​@@jackjohnson8305

[@sizwenhari411]

​@LiterallyAna This made me smile, if you pulling on Acherons banner. All the 👌

[@MrcreeperDXD777]

Aint no way he posted this weeks before Sunday release

[@MrErdtree]

I mean, if you didn’t know Sunday was supporting a… mediocre niche, idk what to tell you.

[@nissonga6594]

​@@MrErdtree"mediocre niche" about the next big niche like Super Break and FUA for possible for a big part of the 3.x

[@handleloverkira]

​@@MrErdtreemediocre niché? Jing yuan got the 1.0 multipliers and he's out here outputing dmg of a t0.5 dps with sunday once we get more summon hyper carries this will change drastically

[@acuriousdumbass6230]

​@@MrErdtree mm dunno how much you've been keeping up w leaks. buuut there's a new summon system and path coming real soon. he's the rm of this patch. heralding a new developing meta w it's own powerhouses

[@Frallicus]

@@MrErdtree "mediocre niche" and its the most flexible character wise niche and is still viable just not meta

[@datzeusboi7784]

Someone else mentioned it, but I also think that the problem is focus and availability. They created Harmony MC for Firefly, and didn't even try to hide it. Then they created Hunt March and Moze for Feixiao. And all those characters are either free or 4 stars. If there was a 4 star version of Jiaoqiu, Acheron would probably last a lot longer in the meta. Another thing that could help would be characters with sub-dps kits like Hunt March and Jade. Although it wouldn't really be a hypercarry team but a dual dps team. I remember when people talked about Jingliu and Blade being a good pair for each other. People were also experimenting with Acheron and Welt, who does surprisingly decent damage.

[@weneedtocook958]

Acheron still have Pela, who's a 4 star, that still has great value even now with how her defense shred/debuff capabilities is just busted and have insane synergy with Jiaoqiu. That said, I kinda agree that they could try releasing a new upgraded version of Pela since she's 1.0 char, but I could see them not do that cause that could also make said character potentially redundant with kit similarities

[@TheJH1015]

yeah the fact that a high eidolon Moze actually RIVALS Topaz is... not a good sign.

[@kennethyoung7457]

4 star version of Jiaoqiu is basically Pela and Feixiao doesn't even need March or Moze since Topaz already existed and is better than them so its more of a budget option instead of an upgrade. Pela is basically as good as you are going to get with a 4 star support for Acheron she has a fast ult rotation and has good uptime on that 42% def shred because of that. Acheron just not as strong in single target(but still strong enough to beat them in 2-3 cycles at the moment for average player) as Feixiao or Firefly which is for balance purposes as she is full aoe. Acheron destroys shared hp bosses like Choir(yes its made for Firefly but Acheron can 0-1 cycle it easy too) Sunday or Banana boss and is better in Pure Fiction.

[@nyes4596]

Pela is good, what we need is an FuA debuffer which will literally make Acheron ult every turn

[@lesmoonwalker]

@@nyes4596 Please continue to cook.

[@polarroars68]

I feel the fact that hypercarries are getting power crept i got rappa and after like 2 hours of building her she did 800k dmg in apoc shadow my acheron’s highest is 350k

[@Accountthatexists]

Well apoc shadow ia a breakgamemode

[@ze7600]

because game modes have rotating themes.. since rappa is the latest character she would have the advantage on the buffs/ themes to make people incentive pulling for her

[@yulfine1688]

@@ze7600 rappa is also a break character her in a break team shreds very quickly even more so than firefly in some cases due to her kit, and with the buffs to fugue and so forth its likely you can run to strong break teams with firefly and hmc and then rappa and fugue, the only thing missing really comes down to having 2 ruan meis for support.

[@shutup1037]

Whoever have Ruan Mei and HMC in that mode as support, win honestly

[@Purpose214]

Well, Hoyo might release more enemies that can lock their toughness bar, like SAM and the Gorilla. Remains to be seen

[@bigbabydoodle]

I feel like a good idea is that instead of just making the enemies HP increased, they could add other mechanics to make it harder? i feel like that would make previous Dps more used

[@mauriciorosademoraes9209]

They try to do this mechanics but Hoyo fails almost everytime. Only Apoc they have success. Ex in MoC: - To kill Aventurine you need to win in the dice game to massively improves you team damage. For this you needed destruction units or a multiple attack + action advance or boosting speed units in the team to get more chances of rolling the dice. Reality: Just freeze or delay him or just break him with Boothill = dead - Something... you gonna need to sacrifice your units and make later in the battle revive them with attacks and turns. Reality = Free HP regain and free ultimate charge because it's easy to revive units and makes no advantage for the boss, even hunt units can revive allies fast. - Sam. Makes healers a must and heavily penalties the use of skill points. After usinf certain amount of skill points, Sam get overheated and becomes a easy target for some time and enters in break state. Reality: Does no damage to shield, just spam skill points. When breaking which with Break units is fast Sam receives the same effects as using certain amount skill points. Ruan Mei makes Sam get up 1,5 cycle after, sufficient time to kill him.

[@bigbabydoodle]

@@mauriciorosademoraes9209 yea honestly they could try and make it harder to do specific things which make it that you have to be more strategic and can’t just use a character to easily overcome the obstacle but hoping they listen (i doubt it)

[@TheJH1015]

@@mauriciorosademoraes9209 yeah it surprised me how well my Sushang actually did against A.S. Aventurine. She's great for toughness shredding and then proceeding to bash in the enemy's head xD But then you try to use her in MoC and... well it suddenly becomes a LOT harder.

[@mauriciorosademoraes9209]

@@TheJH1015 you can still kill him abusing by using Super Break Sushang if you have Moze's LC. Physical DoT Break can cause a ridiculous amount of damage combining diverse debuffs on enemies and BE% in a character and Physical break damage is stupidy strong ans she can at least cause 120k per skill with E1 Ruan Mei, idk E0, S1 doesn't affect Break so whatever. Considering it's a Sushang E6 + Moze's LC, you can get over than 200+ SPD. I gonna check it. But the idea is abandon Sushang's base kit and abuse her element and break + speed eidolons to cause higher damage. Try Hybrid Super Break and fully super break builds. Atualization: Moze's lc S5 + Sushang E6 is needed 147 speed to get at least 200 speed in battle when attacking a broken state enemy.

[@xerael4659]

The main problem HSR has is that it tries to balance being a turn-based jRPG that usually reward grind and using a limited amount of options to the fullest and being a gacha that rewards investing money. People playing gachas and especially whales are often impatient, so Hoyo can't really make a fight that can't be brute forced to encourage players to roll for the new character that can sweep it, but at the same time those whales want to have an illusion of playing, not just one-shotting everything and you can achieve that either by adding extra health, defence, shields etc.. On the other hand dolphins and F2Ps, especially if they've played other jRPGs, want an interesting fight with a cool gimmick that they could use to beat it without having to pull. This puts Hoyo in a tough situation where they can't really appease both sides, so they usually choose the side that has money, since that's why they release their games after all.

[@buttermanaws4693]

I'll be honest, i think its just numbers, more recent characters have better numbers and do more with those numbers, but the next true hypercarry is gonna have even better numbers and do even more so its less that hypercarries are dead and more that characters are just growing so much stronger so fast it looks like those "older" hypercarry units are worse

[@Dora8197]

Same with enemies hp and toughness inflation making it worse for older characters

[@leonwoo]

In any game, not just genshin or hsr, but even mmos or basically anything with roles and team compositions, there has always been one constant with hypercarries: if you don't provide any utility to your team/group beyond raw damage output, then you better be the best at it.

[@polarroars68]

All jingliu and blade needs is a support that gives dmg based on team hp drain, energy battery, and a blast action advance

[@bananacat5327]

We definitely need a HSR Furina in which people get buffed through HP changes This would also drive abundance characters very high as well

[@ariesnightmareanime4594]

Let's hope that happens 3.? but concidering rememblance meta it most likely is to come 4.?. It would be fun to have team with 3 destruction characters plus hp recovery sustain. That would even change pull priority from harmony to other paths. That direction would make sales to rise even from reruns. Surely it will happen, right?

[@koroxo1152]

​@@ariesnightmareanime4594The first moths of a new version generally goes to older archetypes. Black swan and sparkle are from those times. Outside of 1 summoner there is supposedly a dot healer and a quantum harmony

[@giorgostrim3709]

I hope the vampire themed stoneheart will be this games Furina.

[@TheJH1015]

finally Arlan will climb out of the ditch

[@alexsanderivan6511]

13:00 the subtle art of foreshadowing

[@AevyCh]

They can also design an enemy with Flat DMG Reduction to make a massive nuke better than multiple attacks. It blocks your total damage, not individual instances of damage (so Topaz wont be dealing zero damage) Example: The enemy has 1000 Flat DMG Reduction & Topaz deals 200 damage 7 times (200 x 7) - 1000 = 400 damage ✅ (200 - 1000) x 7 = 0 damage ❌

[@noahi.1381]

So basically an Absolute Shield?

[@armadiyoo]

dropping this before sunday THE hypercarry supp is wild vars lmaoo

[@jeffulloa218]

Anyone worthy of Sunday wouldnt care and pull for him regardless

[@Radiant450]

Tbf even with him the only unit whose position will shift greatly in the meta is Jing Yuan, everyone else got a decent upgrade over sparkle but not to the same degree JY did. So yeah even sunday won’t bring back DHIL and JL to be Feixiao level all of a sudden sadly (I would love seeing more 1.X dps be remembered).

[@armadiyoo]

@Radiant450 yeah i agree that feixiao is cracked asf and there’s no way any existing units reach her level. however, sunday’s gonna breathe some new life into the playstyle. i remember when my full build seele did a million dmg but now with how hard the enemies have become, she can’t keep up and sunday will help units like her still be viable with less investment

[@actualspiders]

Sunday isn't a hypercarry support, he's the summon/servant meta support. He's not that good on any hypercarry not named Jing Yuan, and that's because Jing Yuan isn't going to be a hypercarry anymore, he's a summon team DPS.

[@armadiyoo]

@actualspiders i think sunday has a case of the robin and ruan mei where they can be used in general situations but have parts of their kit that make them really shine in a specific niche (fua and break respectively). so yes sunday will be a cracked summon support, he’ll also be a great general hypercarry support

[@JoeJones-t3s]

I say this on every vid but your background music chose is always amazing. Always got some nice Octopath or Fire Emblem song playing.

[@judeautheguy]

guys, just so you understand, he *LEGALLY* doesn't know anything about any future characters -with bird or fox like characteristics-

[@AsDerouxWoofWolf]

He can't know anything from unauthorized sneak peeks :c

[@WrongPerson-hq5dt]

Even if he did, the bird is for summons, which is a subset of fua, and the fox is for break

[@Emmerld]

​@@WrongPerson-hq5dtHonestly kind of funny to think about it, but Fugue is the first break support (kind of? She's part enabler part support?), and Sunday is the first legitimate FuA/Summon buffer (Topaz is more nihility, and she's a sub DPS anyways)

[@WrongPerson-hq5dt]

@@Emmerld I mean ruan mei and robin exist so I don't know what you are talking about.

[@Emmerld]

@@WrongPerson-hq5dt I forgot about RM, but Robin isn't really a FuA buffer only thing she provides is like 20 cdmg to them, Sunday directly makes the summons stronger and provides a Action Advance to them

[@jansolo4628]

That's quite the inefficient Boothill team at 1:43. Boothill Hypercarry uses Bronya and either uses Gallagher for SP printing (Lingsha doesn't provide enough SP) or goes sustainless with either HMC or Pela.

[@kwayke9]

And will definitely go sustainless with Fugue, because who needs healing when you have a forkillion damage

[@bem3760]

After long time waching Vars, I know that he always know the game states but always shit when it comes to actual game mechanic and team building. He's good at seeing bigger picture but completely suck about detail.

[@kwaakwoo]

Isn’t this up to the editors and not Vars since they edit the videos?

[@jansolo4628]

​@@kwaakwoo Vars mentions Boothill by name and implies HMC to be part of the team to be "dealing most of the damage".

[@Ellen777]

I hate powercreap in this game .. they can't kill older characters to sell newer ones .. At E 0 my Jingliu or Seele can't clear the end game modes on time like Firefly or Fiexio ..

[@izumolee6714]

Jingliu or Seele or DHIL can still low cycle MoC, it just takes a lot more effort to do so, you basically have to play perfect and have good crit rng in your favor. You can't just auto with FU or Break and get a 1 cycle clear. Like i love my Jingliu and still use her as much as possible, it sucks that so many game modes barely have any ice weakness for her to take advantage on. She can still pop off in like simulated universe/divergent with the right buffs and that is fun when she can ult almost every turn.

[@variareaver4658]

They should kill older characters because most of them suck in combat design and have horrid role division between their teams disallowing anything other than pure supports and buffs in the form of generic pure supports.

[@kertuo]

Well, in a team based game where team synergy is important even more so if they do damage, it is definitely going to increase the hp of bosses in endgame mode truly making a mistake of making everything being hp sponges

[@Kasraken]

The way I define it is a team has 4 members and if equally divided that is 25% of the team's damage each. So "carry" needs to do more than 25% of the teams damage and more than at least one other member on the team (who they are carrying). To be a "hyper-carry" not only does the character need to do more damage than "any" other member on the team but also more than "all" other team members combined. Now I know that is very specific but it is how I determine if someone is a hyper-carry or something else (like a duel DPS team). Anyway good video!

[@claire.john6728]

I like the team composition where every member contributes like break! I’m saving up for making a follow up team. My main problem is that starrail releases so many 5 stars and not many 4 stars, like every member of a good follow up team is a 5 star there’s no “good but not great” 4 star follow up buffer or shielder or healer there’s just aventurine, robin, topaz and that’s it. I kindof wish they less great 4 star counterparts to be more affordable

[@TheJH1015]

Blade (and by extension, Arlan) can get buffed very easily through a dedicated HP support as you already said (Like a support that records all HP changes in the team and provides a metric ton of DMG% and Crit DMG to one specific target ally. thinking about it, that would give Jingliu also a nice buff since she drains the team's HP). For the other traditional Hypercarries... honestly, the only thing that could save them is a balance patch where their multipliers get reworked. Physical carries have the innate advantage that Bleed damage scales with enemy HP, so their residual damage from breaking toughness bars can actually kinda keep up with the inflated enemy HP pool, but even they are struggling.

[@mptyalln]

we can also add a marechausse set in hsr tbh

[@bgammax5842]

As someone coming from other team-based games, I find the idea of hypercarries being normal, let alone requested, utterly baffling. Its the kind of dead-end design that inevtably causes an unbelievable amount of powercreep. Characters that want a sub-dps to help out like Rappa and even Feixiao are a much healthier way to go about it since they can afford to be weaker without falling off a cliff whenever the next dps comes around. Someone uh. Probably should have mentioned this when they were designing Feixiao (:

[@jhosvillanueva7265]

sunday might be our only savior

[@DarkFenix2k5]

I very much doubt it'll happen, but I think they ought to revisit all these old characters and overhaul them according to what the dev team has learned about how to build characters. They could maybe slot it into patches where there's only one new character (like we're seeing in 2.6), re-release one character in a v2.0 state of balance. If they want to keep them as hypercarry, they need crazy numbers much like Acheron, the fundamental lack of synergy requires it. But I think it would be better to interconnect them into an engine to give them lasting relevance. Jingliu for instance, maybe expand syzygy; more maximum stacks, multiple stacks consumed per attack, but then make the ways she generates those stacks more interactive - not just with her own mechanics but with her party too. And how could she give back to the team? Perhaps play into her ice typing to make some kind of effect applied when she freezes enemies, or attacks frozen enemies, or something. It just seems a shame to leave characters behind, obsolete and forgotten.

[@TheJH1015]

yessssssss pls give back Arlan his Beta kit

[@Tosca364]

Yeah, they better gives direct buff to old unit cause why bother pulling if your units will "expire" in 6 months?? I hate the direction the devs take to just blatantly smashing old units with billion HP or 999 spd enemies with bs mechanic just to sell new units and its total disrespect to players who already invest in those older units and I will not be surprised if they lose players if they practice this bs long enough. If the devs are not creative enough at least copy how other gachas buff their older units like Module System in Arknights or character buff in Reverse1999, do whatever to make older units at least relevant in current meta. Sorry i'm rumbling here, I just little bit frustrated with HSR devs in the current path.

[@redlox2]

I didn’t pull for Acheron but I did pull for Feixiao (needed a wind DPS).

[@koko-hh2bq]

I think HSR's meta is slowly transforming into something similar to Genshin's meta where having sub-dpses who do considerable damage on the side is quite important for more efficient clears. Both the FuA and Break engines facilitate this to the point where even the sustain is doing very respectable dmg, sometimes even more than DPSes who are hypercarry-focused. I don't think any support, even dedicated ones, would fix a hypercarry DPS's issue unless 1) that hypercarry has a specific gimmick that said support can cater to (i.e. Jing Yuan's summon), or 2) they just have broken af multipliers like Acheron. An E0 hypercarry would need to be able to deal equal, if not more, damage compared to a full Super Break/FuA team for them to be objectively worth building from a purely numbers perspective. So, it's just really tough competition for hypercarries atm.

[@michaelnattoo2633]

Had it not been for this video, I wouldn’t have known that there was any issue at all with hyper carries lol I’m living just great with my E0 Acheron

[@angeldiaz762]

Acheron is the exception, though. She got a huuuge buff in Jiaoqiu's release and has plenty of awesome teammates whether you're F2P or P2W. Imbibitor Lunae and Jingliu are not so lucky, insofar as if you don't have Sparkle, what's the point

[@angeldiaz762]

When I play turn-based RPG's, I like to have multiple contributing damage dealers most of the time. So it does kinda make me a little proud of what the FUA team with Robin is capable of because its just so much fun

[@adeem-x88]

I guess You are going to make the 6847th video for jingyuan next patch😂

[@bene_ml]

11:31 They're not Yanqing was crazy, leave that small guy alone lmao xD

[@angeldiaz762]

Did you see his post on here where he showed he got E6? He's salty af

[@SomebodyWhoCanFly]

8:48 they have the same pose 😂 thats hilarious

[@mrsawsteven]

I mean for Acheron, all she needs is another character like her and we have a team with duo hypercarries XD. It is more realistic to say for E2 Acheron but imagine a DoT unit that also gets ult from having 12 stacks of debuffs or even if Jioaqiu was designed with debuff stack ult activation. But it is what it is.

[@smasher1237]

Hypercarry was the main way to play for a long time. I think it would be nice to bring it back to the same level as everyone else. Maybe a support with really strong skills that don't work on follow up attacks or benefit Break teams in any way.

[@Masfugo]

oh no.. Acheron is bad now? I was planning to pull her

[@xii_____iiu]

unless you have Jiaoqiu and were planning on pulling her LC, i don't really recommend pulling for her if you don't have the things i mentioned above.

[@andyvincenti]

I was planning too, but she kinda fell off... Time to save for Sunday I guess

[@mercus.7634]

She's definitely lightcone reliant. I've been playing with her with E0 Kafka, E0 Blackswan, and for the fourth slot I've done S1Aventurine, Fuxuan with trend, or Gallagher. I skipped Jiaoqui because I didn't like his design or animations and my Acheron has still been clearing the end modes. My sustain changes depending on if I'm running firefly sb or RRAT on the other side. If you love her, get her, but he aware she doesn't have good f2p lightcone options that come anywhere close to her sig.

[@theashianz3562]

So whats better? Acheron e0 with Jiaoqiu? Or Acheron e2 with out Jiaoqiu? ​@@xii_____iiu

[@VeronicaStorm98]

I normally pull for 5 stars that I really like in Honkai Star Rail, and after getting the 5 Star Version of Dan Heng on early pity, I have been saving for Acheron because she reminds me of Raiden Shogun, and I like her personality in the game. And I noticed that Dan Heng works best when paired with at least two supports/buffers rather than sub-DPSes.

[@AsDerouxWoofWolf]

Love the analysis... ... but also, I like the big coincidence that Silver Wolf and Jiaoqiu have similae poses, for some reason.

[@kauewc2204]

I mean, we don't have limited hyper carry support yet besides the 2 that came with the game, bronya and tyngiun, and you could argue in favor of sparkle, though she is more of an sp printer support. I suppose when they want to revive hyper carry they will introduce a 5* version of tyngiun skill, of adding a multiplier to the character, so they can make the most out of their own kit buffs, or maybe they add a nihility character that has debuffs that out value a harmony's buffs against 1 or 2 enemies at a time and is consistent (glaring at silver wolf)

[@Sacred__]

I usually prefer to pull the stronger characters in HSR and will usually skip a character I like if they just feel lackluster to play. I completely went against everything I firmly belived in and pulled DHIL 2 days ago (after missing his last two banners) because I just think he is such a cool character; from story to aesthetics to gameplay. I pray that Sunday does enough for hypercarries without summons to warrant DHIL to come back into the meta. I don't expect his viability to rival Feixiao or super break teams but I pray he's good enough to have a positive discussion about him again.

[@LordNeltharion]

He's not entirely out of meta yet as his S1 helps with energy refund but he is on the cusp. I will say tho as someone that went for E2 this last run he really becomes a more monstrous character in that he basically doubles his turns when he can ult but suffers from Tingyun being based on his turn and not her turn.

[@zkila]

a good harmony concept that can receive from acheron is a harmony that gets action advance or energy from how much a single instance of damage is dealt, that way acheron with easy access to insane numbers on singular instances of damage can give the most to this hypothetical harmony unit instead of follow ups, super breaks, and dots which attacks in many instances

[@variareaver4658]

For the love of god do not buff Acheron with a HARMONY of all things.

[@ginak5802]

Maybe not the smartest investment, but I'm going for e0s1 Acheron when she reruns in a couple days. I skipped her to go all in on Aventurine e6s1, I just love her animations and voice. I'll make her work.

[@ragna6410]

Acheron is my second favorite and DHIL my third.

[@ArchyPoppy]

HMMM Susge when the upcoming highly anticipated unit already powercrept the previous hypercarry supports in his beta (sparkle, TY, bronya)

[@mptyalln]

triple harmony teams with sunday 💀

[@icyglacier2429]

Hypercarry would only be able to see the light of day again when HSR devs releases more chars with very high multiplier or some supports that could buff a lot of raw boost of damages and turns...

[@variareaver4658]

Which just universally boosts all damage boostable/crit damage types and accomplishes nothing. This is why basic hypercarry design in star rail with no other archetype synergy is trash and the old dps characters without any mechanics should be abandoned unless they figure out to make a proper archetype out of them.

[@anwarshadaad1553]

1:27 boothill outside super break also can be called hypercarry, with Bronya, ruan mei, and another support or a sustain in his team

[@digital-underworld]

As a 1st run E0S1 Topaz haver I feel good knowing that my prediction that she will be relevant as long as Follow-Up would be was correct.

[@cyberswordsmen8198]

I actually had a fairly good Jinglue/Blade team due to JInglue doing chip damage to her entire team fueling blade. Of course that worked by not using either of them as a hypercarry.

[@Shadowenclave47]

I have decided to stop caring about the endgame modes (at least the final stage of MOC and the last star for AS & PF) as its not worth me chasing the meta for like 2 pulls with how bad powercreep is getting. Im still going to play my Jingliu, Acheron and DoT teams cuz they are my favorite characters. I also have Firefly and Rappa but i know that break will no longer be 'meta' in 3.0 and will be powercrept but i have zero interest in Sunday or the summon meta that will come in 3.0. As of right now, 5* Heta is the only upcoming character that interest me.

[@0v_x0]

E2 Acheron still alive, kicking, and 0 cycling, but concerned that her performance in 3.x is going to start looking like E2 DHIL or Jingliu at the end of 2.x. I hyperinvested in her team when I could for that reason, with E1 Jiaoqiu and picking up Sparkle's E2 on her rerun so that Robin and RM would be free for other teams. Now it's looking like 3.0 is literally opening with a next-gen lightning main DPS summoner, preceded by the summoner hypercarry support Sunday so it's not looking too good. It seems that summons is exactly what is going to happen to hypercarry, and the likes of Jingliu and DHIL continue to fall by the wayside. Do we really need a brand new lightning DPS so soon?

[@kurosakitora5498]

i think a big problem with hypercarry is the amount of resources you need to dedicate for it. IL dan heng just needs sparkle if you want to make the most out of him. acheron needs E2 first if you want to run one none nihility character and whether you have it or not you'll still need her lightcone since almost all other nihility lightcones barely do her any good at all. fua and break have far less restrictions and even some of their builds cost a lot. and for me a cost is not the materials but rather getting the needed characters and the lightcones needed

[@shinidragon7775]

I think current Hypercarries do still have paths for buffs that won't also buff others. For example your mention of a battery character was something I had thought about right before you said it. But instead of just a normal battery, we can make this character restore a flat amount of energy based on SP usage, Sparkle follows an idea like this but this character could passively restore up to like 15 energy per turn for allies if they use 3 SP for example. This DOES help most characters no matter what but the biggest beneficiaries would be DHIL, Qingque, and Seele since they either use a lot of SP per turn or ideally move twice per turn. Unlike someone like Ratio who uses skill once and relies on FuA, and ofc Feixiao and Acheron don't even benefit from energy. Even feeds back into Sparkle since she skills every turn and it'd be possible for her to get a 2T ult with the little extra energy

[@shinidragon7775]

This doesn't help Jingliu as much but she has her teamwide life drain that they can play off of instead

[@MrErdtree]

Good video, can’t wait for Worse Senator Armstrong to come out

[@tankadamka]

HSR has powercreep, not as hard as HI3 but not as soft as Genshin. Albeit, Hoyo makes so many comebacks with support characters dedicated to someone. It works but if you're a new player you are lost in team building.

[@darkdude1996ify]

Realistically, we're probably going to start seeing an overlap in the engines. Or rather, we're already seeing that with characters like Boothill, who's more of a break/crit hybrid for example. Follow ups with break, follow ups with DoT, break with DoT, etc. Superbreak applying break DoTs based on the amount of break similar to how superbreak deals break dmg, for example. It really just depends on which direction they want to take the game. Massive external buffs means base multipliers are going to be more important. Adding more things with trigger conditions (like follow up attacks or SU mechanics like Aftertaste, Quake, Dissociation etc) means that characters with more ways to trigger those will be more important (we mostly see this in SU with characters like Ice March for example, since she has a follow up, she has freeze, she has a shield, so she can trigger a number of the aforementioned SU mechanics)

[@actualspiders]

Lingsha is basically a hybrid of a Break DPS, a FUA character, AND a top tier sustain character. She's like the ultimate Swiss army knife character.

[@danielferrieri7434]

Looks like the HyperCarry Engine lost its Hyperdrive and can no longer carry the team.

[@rubenscantanhede2797]

Listen tô this while my Dan Heng E2S1 under right circunstances can close even pure fiction...

[@oscargutierrez3206]

If You are talking of base Dan Heng, the Hunt Wind one, that's beyond impressive 😲.

[@rubenscantanhede2797]

@@oscargutierrez3206 hahahahaahaha, in my dreams only, i was talking about DHIL. But i am working on my base Dan Heng.

[@thewritevibe]

I have 2 hypercarry teams and 1 break team. So far... instead of pulling for a new shiny dps, i tend to stick with supports that would help my current teams and focused on improving my relics. I cant 0 cycle but still manage to brute force my way to all content.

[@RedCoreX725]

Though unlike other Hypercarry. Acheron has arguably the best vertical investment scaling out of any unit. So the best way to buff hypercarry is their own eidolons

[@John-ii6he]

The issue with HSR I would like to address is that 90% of these teams require HEAAAVVYY 5 star loads that arent accessible. I get that hoyo needs cash, but HSR nearly has the same amount of 5 stars as genshin in its SEVEN YEARS. The problem is mainly that these strategies that barely last a patch and may be obsolete in two characters have nearly no support unless its ANOTHER five star or you CANT keep meaningful damage anyway. Making the synergy thing a bigger problem. Which is why things like feixiao basically being able to act every turn for any team member is hugely over powered because she would be incredibly hard to power creep.

[@gunfights-]

Is that my ROTMG GOAT on HSR? Hypercarry is still has a place as an archetype for people starting the game. You don't need to heavily invest very many limited characters to make it work. A lot of the best characters available on the standard banner play well with hypers. They also naturally help you clear the storymode and most of the endgame in a way that isn't grueling and doesn't require you to actually build out other characters. While pulling a new limited sustain is ideal as a beginner, it does take a grueling amount of time to stall all of the content and the amount of hours you lose in terms of clearing the story and reaching endgame hurts your economy and enjoyment of the game quite a bit. The amount of hours difference is honestly so big that you could easily work OT and make what you need to pull both.

[@DaddySenpai35]

Sunday is gonna change that I think not sure about fuege she looks more break centric but Sunday coming to bring hyper carries relevant again.

[@Moose6557]

I think a new harmony character idea could be that their talent allows them to buff a targets damage obviously but with the added effect of Adding or lessening their talent counter stack thingy for example. Say you have Jingliu and you have this new support and you decide to buff her she gains an extra stack to her moon enhanced form letting her deal out more damage and stay in her enhanced form longer and maybe You wanna bring this new support with achreon and you use them to buff archeon one of her slash dream stacks are removed letting her get her ult even faster now letting her deal more damage.

[@variareaver4658]

This doesn’t actually work first of all because the concept within itself is super awkward and also doesn’t solve the problem that the character can only be buffed through a harmony directly and not resolving pure supports with more pure supports is going to bite that character quickly.

[@aetherhae]

2:06 I had to replay this a few times because the way you were pronouncing her name kinda sounded like 'Fischl' to me, and I had to do a double take LOLOL

[@Erlow]

It may not be a strong team but I think blade/jade deserves more credit, even if just for being very fun to play The speed buff lets blade do blast attacks a bit more often and the hp drain lets him use his aoe follow up almost twice as often, both of which are great contributions to charging jade's follow up

[@lukeking8972]

F2P+ player here; i have basically set my mind on only using acheron and firefly and their teams only. New units only appeal to me if they help those two/their teams.

[@angeldiaz762]

Those are my main teams to use, but I also have Ratio and Robin and use that team sometimes. But without Topaz, I have to use either Hunt March or Mozzarella. I plan on trying to make a no-sustain Imaginary team using Ratio, March, and Welt but I don't have Welt until I reach my 300th pull on Standard

[@duk6120]

Same, and so far I can clear everything really easily. I just hope that this will continue as I get more eidolons for those teams

[@altysalteo]

​@@angeldiaz762 Pela is very good for Ratio, I used her for a lot of time until I recently got Topaz. Welt can also be good vs imaginary enemies

[@angeldiaz762]

@@altysalteo yep my Pela is E6 and is oftentimes on my teams with him

[@IgnasV]

@@altysalteo Everyday I'm reminded about missing out on free ratio :(

[@novalytyxp]

3:48 this right here is why I’m not attracted to the hypercarry archetype. I like my teams to feel like hyperbloom, and like they’re all puzzle pieces that fit together. The only exception is Acheron, but she still has the debuff as like a sub-archetype, and DOTcheron, which I find really fun to play. I just don’t want to brute force the game, I want synergies that pay off to use together. (Basically what he said already lol)

[@alanway5]

can you make a video of the best synergy duos and trios. im a dumbass and i dont understand a lot of hsr. just do support and adc and some aoe. just recently started undestanding break thing in the game. barely tho

[@ryuk6795]

As a unit these charaters are great ,the problem is other teams mainly fua and superbreak have their entire team become dps But in hypercarry team only 1 unit is big no dps and other units are there just to provide buffs and not jave any personal damage

[@haydenthompson2097]

I just want to be able to use old characters without struggling so I wish they slow down on power creep and have buffers made for older characters

[@Laserstormelpies]

Who needs hypercarries when they design characters to all buff each other and themselves? Gallagher released as a healer and now he's also a viable damage-dealer. You can have hypercarry teams that still buff each other into the heavens of damage numbers. So the "hypercarrying" itself became redundant.

[@nicolasgoncalves5418]

Sinergy with element for jing liu a mecanic for freeze that does damage or push foward. Skill point mecanic for lunae Archeron need characters (perservasion-nighility) thay sinergise with debuffs for better consitency team

[@nixnax1489]

Why bother using a character that needs a decent Crit Rate / Damage ratio, Atk and Speed stats when you can just opt for a character that just needs Break Effect and Speed? The Relic system is to blame.

[@RerunBladeIPayForE6S5]

BLADE AND JINGLIU KING AND QUEEN MOMMY AND DADDY .-. PLEASE DRAIN MY WALLET I NEED WHO BOTH RIGHT NOW I BEG FOR THE RERUNS I WILL DO ANYTHING FOR THEM PLZ HOYO PLEASE GOD ANYONE IN HEAVEN OR EARTH HELP ME SELL MY BODY, SWEAT, TEARS AND BLOOD FOR THESE CHARACTERS

[@aaronscott7467]

I think that the archetype has it's pace, but part of the issue is that it's domain got encroached on. They've always relied on advances, but then robin was released who could just do that for the entire comp. As for whether it should continue to exist as an archetype, I think there's no reason for it not to. I feel like there has been a disproportionate amount of dps releases compared to supports, so if they released more supports then hypercarries would just have more tools.

[@whisper3856]

Personally, hypercarry is my favorite DPS type. I love hypercarries… even if my Acheron pulls went very poorly :’)

[@shai310]

I think the main issue is that Hoyo now tries to cater to very specific teams (fua, break etc) as opposed to high damage dps. You can also see it with the supports hypercarries need as opposed to their specialist dps counterparts. DHIL needs Sparkle who's a limited 5* whom already fallen of off favor since the game doesn't have many characters that fall into her niche, Jingliu needs at least Bronya who's a stadaerd banner character but isn't a guarantee for you to get, not to mention Bronya has far better options such as Boothill and Feixiao, Acheron is more flexible with her supports for sure and is still doing ok for now but with more content catered towards specialist dps this is going to hurt her in the long run. If Hoyo wants to make hypercarries worth investing in then they need to cater more content towards them and give them other viable support options including some f2p options as well. FF has HMC and Gallagher as some of her best teamates (same for Rappa), Feixiao has Hunt March and Moze but hypercarries don't really have that Luxury. Sure DHIL can still be played with Hanya but the SP generation isn't nearly as good, Acheron can still do ok with Guinafen, Pela and Gallagher but you'll still be sacrificing a whole lot of damage to do so. So yeah hypercarries need a lot of love and with the summon based meta coming up I don't see it happening anytime soon.

[@patricialock1862]

I'd love a support that specifically sucks the damage out of teammates (in the form of some percentage buff or something idk) and put it into the carry I think that would be funny

[@duongnguyen-s1i]

me now panicking for sunday D:

[@D0cSwiss]

Jingliu and DHIL would be at least a tier higher if they'd been released in 2.X and gotten the powercreep buffs that Acheron got

[@ChromophobiaTM]

In my opinion I believe that hypercarries are always going to be needed. Because if every year hoyo brings in more and more people to the game. These new people won't have all the characters to build a decent break team, follow-up, or dot. So having characters that can do the job themselves will allow the new player to have a strong character then invest into other teams later.

[@IveBeenWithBruma]

How about a support that gives a damage bonus that scales off a characters current speed values and a nihility unit that forces enemies forward to put in more DoT into rotations. We have nothing like this in game and neither benefits break units while giving huge buff potential to hypercarries and dot teams.

[@walidhalabi4866]

THEY DID MY GIRL JINGLIU DIRTY

[@kwaakwoo]

6:43 Ah. Father.

[@trickmonster7905]

Forgive me Father for I have si.. *sees Sunday* I’m sorry daddy for I have been a naughty boy*

[@WakeUpUniverse66]

Yeah...wait until Kafka pops back up in the story. You know their gonna make the MOC Kafka weak and her rerun for that new costume. DoT is gonna blow up big again.

[@WakeUpUniverse66]

Follow-up DoT team. Kafka, Robin, Redacted, Healer/shielded/debuffer. Gonna power creep both DoT and IPC teams.

[@giantpandas572]

What a weird take. The only thing that matters is the damage numbers these characters can but out. Dual dps was a thing in 1.X but nobody used it over hypercarry because they did shit damage. If 3.X characters do bigger numbers than break/fua then current teams won’t be used anymore. Just a power creep issue not a playstyle falling off.

[@variareaver4658]

Yeah it’s so weird…if only we could figure out why they had more damage. It’s almost like they use specific synergies that the best harmonies and other teammates that aren’t exclusively harmonies use instead of having one unit have the burden to deal all the damage. All that making the only units who get played at the optimal level just the one with the bigger numbers…or the ones that have a team that have more than one relevant modifier.

[@bb-qw2pu]

is this song from fire emblem engage? im going crazy trying to figure it out lol

[@wanning233]

11:30 it's not a vars video without Yanqing hate 😂

[@Elven_Red]

Follow up really tickles my monkey brain with the characters just spamming attacks non-stop, I would use it even if it wasn't currently in the high

[@brycecai4700]

I feel like the main reason is powercrep, enemies has way more health than before

[@reizshfelonia6471]

The only reason Acheron dropped to T 0.5 is because the criteria for that list is E0S0. Acheron really needs her LC and Jiaoqiu to reach T0 status and E2 just makes her the best DPS in the game. But until you get those, you will feel her damage not being enough.

[@Ulquiorra_Cifer]

i think the only way to directly buff hypercarries is by having some sort of a giga buffer that comes with the cost of nerfing the damage of all other team members

[@Elizabet_Gawin]

I think break is like genshin hyperbloom and hypercarry wont die but they will just have to do one stronger than acheron to keep up D: like they did with neuvi

[@dominickroberts4653]

Simple reason: More team heavy characters mean more sales

[@zyzhang1130]

Jingyuan and turn advance/energy buffers are certainly not one-to-one benefit, as those buffers give other benefits (e.g., dmg buff, crit buff, etc.)

[@Actually_Alice_Orchid]

potentially broken but imagine a character who can multiply the effects of buffs they recieve

[@Apterous]

"Falling off"? I autobattle endgame modes for full rewards with E0 teams with okay-at-best artifacts. The bigger problem is that SAM, Silvergun Shura, and Dazzling Ninja all want the same 3 support units or they basically don't work. Feixiao is great, but if she doesn't have Robin and a very specific subset of synergistic teammates, she falls off. Mean while Acheron is best with Jiaoqui and Silverwolf, but you can make her work adequately with combinations of Pela, Guin, Kafka, and Black Swan. She has much more functional flexibility, and new supports (or lightcones / eidolons / potential future artifact sets that can bring faster debuffing) have the potential to boost her and continue raising her damage. So yeah, with all of these the damage ceiling is higher, but you need very specific supports to reach those heights.

[@almondxd6110]

One of the biggest downside of Hypercarry comp is when main DPS got captured (by Savarog and the meme boss)​ the run is over immediately​ as there is no one can release them fast enough to not cost too much cycles or points

[@moodiiperson7474]

Nahh, Sunday will build hype around Hypercarry, trust.