Should Strictly Come Dancing Be Cancelled Over Abuse Claims?

[@timwilks666]

Good point about Hell's Kitchen and SAS Are You Tough Enough ? They know what they're getting into up front. so being sworn at and having a frying pan hurled past their ear is all part of the deal. So, the answer for Strictly is to keep it unchanged but rename it "Dance, You F*cker !"

[@costeris35]

Now that I would watch 😂

[@alfsmith4936]

Put them barefoot on a hotplate and whoever stays on longest wins a five night residency in Blackpool.

[@richardtickler8555]

​@@alfsmith4936 are the stricly people as irellevant as the jungle guys? I never watched it

[@JelMain]

@@alfsmith4936 That was Sir Thomas Beecham's viewpoint, when he tapped the podium and told the Orchestra "Right. Let's make the buggers hop!"

[@bewarethedwarf]

This is such a delightful comment. Absolutely taken with “Dance, you F*cker!” and am quite certain this is going to be oft-quoted in my life here on out.

[@MoonOnAStickFilms]

I've already listened to this and sad news, not a single 'by and large' in this episode 😢

[@RubbishGimpy]

We'll have to count how many times Richard scratches his brow instead.

[@lakrids-pibe]

How often does Richard hide his face for the camera with his hand.

[@christophersmith108]

A spoiler warning, _PLEASE!_

[@PrincessPriceless97]

Richards large and Lucy's bi

[@xtremejack19]

It's now moved to "Is the truth"

[@COLINHILLSWIMS]

I was on the very first SAS Are You Tough Enough series. The first show was interesting,, because none of us knew what we were in for. Getting caught on the long drag and put in stress positions all night and the interrogated was a big surprise for all of us... All the reactions from us were real. The next show, people know what is going to happen (I had a couple of contestants for series 2 calling me before the show to get the low down), so the show has to get a bit tougher and more extreme each time to get 'real' reactions. But eventually it's not the show it set out to be and becomes more contrived each time.

[@Elwaves2925]

I'd say that applies to pretty much all reality TV. After a mate's recommendation, I watched the remainder of the very first season of Big Brother in the UK. This was obviously back before reality TV became what it is today. It was the whole Nasty Nick thing, so I watched and it was interesting. Then I watched the first episode of the second season and it was just a bunch of a-holes, who had clearly seen the first season and where playing to that. The 'reality' of it all had gone and the fake was in. I have barely watched any 'reality' TV since then and even then, I stomached it only because someone I liked was on it.

[@lepolhart3242]

Why did you decide to do the reality show? Most reality shows are rubbish anyway. Even real SAS veterans said that it's nothing like real SAS training.

[@COLINHILLSWIMS]

@@lepolhart3242 this was over 20 years ago! Again the first show was somewhat close to the selection course, just a very abridged version. The wanted sportspeople to test themselves over an army course, so it sounded fun. I do think the word reality show was ever used, but it sounded fun, which it was, I really enjoyed the 10 days of mainly hard walking crying heavy weights and navigating , plus I got to parachute jump etc.

[@lepolhart3242]

@@COLINHILLSWIMS Thanks for replying, it's interesting to find out why people do reality shows as it seems so heavily edited and what you see on TV is often far from the truth.

[@COLINHILLSWIMS]

@@lepolhart3242 I was worried, as they get so much footage of you each day, that I knew they could portray me however they wanted. Luckily it came out ok.

[@Cchogan]

I have several friends who have done the ballet journey. Ballet, at professional level, is by far the hardest of all the dance journeys. It is also famous for allegations of angry egos and bullying. And yet, some of the most respected dancers and instructors have a reputation of being very caring, not bullies at all, and manage to bring the best out of people. I think this is true of many of the hardest disciplines. The media picks up on the Gordon Ramsay characters because it is good TV, but most in the industry are not like him, yet cook just as well and have been an inspiration to others. Perhaps TV needs to be more careful of who they turn too, and research the best of the best and not just the big egos.

[@kathycollins2746]

Thank you for a balanced discussion on the Strictly issue. It is sad but not unexpected. Maybe a solution for the 20th Anniversary show is to have previous winners gently revisiting the original fun format and then calling it quits!

[@johnford3825]

Let us not forget. Mostly unknown “celebrities” go on this show for the money and secondly to raise their profile. Many previous contestants are now always “on the box”.

[@dan7845]

There was mention of social media being an influence in making things that used to be fun not be fun anymore. Funny enough: social media used to be fun, but really is not anymore either.

[@pierres_blog]

Richard gets right to the heart of the matter around minutes 6-7. I think some of the dancers need coaching so that when a celebrity says "I want to go for it!", the dancer checks what they are really asking for.

[@RosClarkeCraft]

I really think standards have got too high on Strictly. First week dances now are expected to be like semifinal dances a few weeks ago. Lighten up! I love watching the dancers who struggle and then improve, but I don’t need everyone to be super-good from the start. Bring back amateur era!

[@vickibolsover6559]

Agree. I thought that. Also, I assume the production team/BBC want to keep the ratings high and the celebs/dancers must feel so much pressure to be brilliant from day one. ratings over the years have gone down in general on linear tv. i knew it was a lot of it was hard work but not this bad.

[@jackieadam4499]

Exactly - it has all got too serious and competitive- the show is about celebrities from all walks of life and how they learn to dance - the professional dancers are treating it like the olympics

[@originalindiechick7999]

Agree! The teachers were kind and encouraging, there was less emphasis on winning, it was all about the journey 😢

[@TonyP_Yes-its-Me]

I remember Stephanie Beacham sighing with relief when she was kicked off Strictly, 15 years ago. It was far too tough, for her even then. And just a few years ago, Laila Rouass came out and said she hated her time on it. So the current situation is nothing new.

[@krob2327]

Yeah. Although I’m not a fan of celebrity culture they are treated like trash on these shows. That’s not ok

[@MaddyT54321]

The most intelligent and balanced conversation about Strictly 👏 I do think a psychological analysis of sorts would be a good idea 💡. Plus I love a book list ❤. I have definitely bought books that way.... in fact I'm off to buy Elena ferrante because of you 😊

[@ChrisH78]

I see a lot of parallels between the Strictly situation and the Charlotte Dujardin situation. The video of Charlotte whipping a horse to force it to perform unnatural movements can't be a one off. It must be part and parcel of most if not all dressage training. It will be the same with Strictly. What we've seen, or have been told has been seen, must be the tip of the iceberg.

[@DSQueenie]

@@ChrisH78 the person who blew the whistle on her behaviour said they did it because they wanted to “save dressage” so it seems like times are changing.

[@thecrispymaster]

I've been in dressage competitions - albeit at a more amateur level - and I really don't think this is typical in the UK anymore. I can't speak for how her parents or grandparents generation handled that stuff and the kind of culture she grew to accept as normal as a result.

[@transamination]

People are delusional if they think you can make a horse do those bizarre unnatural movements without punishing it for not doing those movements. The Dujardin thing is ridiculous because they all do it, all of them, they just picked her to throw under the bus.

[@fenderek666]

Am I the only one that never watched Strictly and has no intention of changing it?

[@brianmccaig]

Never have, never will.

[@HandmadeDarcy]

👋

[@davarosmith1334]

You are not the only one, it's Shite with a capital S!

[@ChidiyaSethi]

I have only watched it through Gogglebox ,as that's as much as I can take 😕🙃

[@juliewillard1367]

I watched it for years but gave up a few years ago and everybody in it was so competitive. It lost its charm.

[@stephenbarrette610]

A few comments on another excellent episode … my daughter spent three years at a leading dance school and it is very hard and brutal. Luckily she didn’t choose ballet, as that is really brutal, although the school wanted her to pursue that path. The BBC has many Crown Jewels: its back catalogue, its news service, The World Service, and particularly relevant to me as I spent 18 years freelancing at one, local radio. All of these magnificent parts of the BBC have been degraded over the decade for one reason or another, mainly cost costing and an effective 30% reduction in funding. But these are the wrong things to cut in my opinion. Perhaps the only exception is the extraordinary archive, as it’s presumably just media storage. But I don’t believe they are making best use of it. I know copyright and repeat fees etc. are a factor but we the license fee payer, in my case over 45 years!, paid for that stuff as Richard pointed out. So let’s see a lot more, including the less famous, but equally brilliant back catalogue. And I hope they are looking after those old tapes and digitising them for future generations as a record of the 20th century and beyond.

[@martinhorodrigues3809]

This podcast is lovely...... I particularly enjoy how the hosts discuss current issues eloquently, with almost no friction and yet, the convos are engaging and insightful. Both put forward their opinions so well. You really have a fantastic USP here: Your poise. Congratulations

[@MsClaudz]

I love it too! Only discovered it last week and now I’m obsessed.

[@rzeitler9560]

Hi...Can't find "Where Did All The Bands Go'' on your KZbin channel? Thanks.

[@DelosFive]

Around 16:50 mins in, note the sly but visible drag of the icon off Richard's photo on the TV 😂😂

[@DrCalamityJan]

spectacular spotting!

[@DelosFive]

@@DrCalamityJan it's a gift, eh? 😂

[@frolickinglions]

What's being dragged and why? You've got very sharp eyesight, that's for sure

[@DelosFive]

@@frolickinglions I know, right? It's a gift. I'm sure I'll be involved in police investigation at some point. Especially those murders that involve an icon on a TV screen. ;)

[@isabellmurphy651]

In interview of Amanda Abbington, she explained that after she complained they started recording the training sessions which is now being scrutinised, her and her lawyer weren't allowed copies of footage to review, weirdly, she couldnt even say what had happened, but she said it supported all her complaints. Ridiculously she had received death and rape threats against her and her daughter!!!! The evidence is there and still to come out so let's not guess and make judgements but you should be able to call out bad behaviour without receiving death threats, it should be encouraged to call out bad behaviour. She is a very brave woman for reporting it, others it had previously happened to were too scared to report at the time but have backed Amanda. I do hope she proves the haters wrong given all she has had to endure.

[@shirleyn546]

From what I’ve seen of Amanda, she’s an intelligent levelled headed woman, I always believed her claims, and the amount of hate that she got on SM, most from other women, is vile, and physical threats against her and her daughter need to be investigated, no normal person threatens things like that, only very sick minded individuals

[@maxine2798]

It’s similar with the sewing bee. Not the “bullying” but the raising of expectations. The standards are a lot higher now, not what the challenges are but what the contestants deliver.

[@Joley964]

Yes ,they never give them enough time,almost like they are set up to fail.😮

[@annabraithwaite9611]

As a fairly competent amature sewer the challenges are more technical every year, not just the time element. I know I could easily complete (and have in many cases) done what was being asked of them in the first few series (just maybe not in the time frame) and you could use off the shelf patterns. In the more recent series they've gone from 'normal' home dressmaking to wanting designer stuff that you would never make as a home sewist. Also the judging has changed. In the first few series they focus on fit and execution. Now they focus on design. So many of the clothes have those folds of fabric where there is excess fabric or slight pulling where it's slightly to tight

[@lakrids-pibe]

The Great British Baking Bloodsport always has an episode where they make ice cream inside a burning volcano, just for the dramatic footage.

[@brettwhittle4526]

Ah, once again I find myself in the midst of a Primrose Hill dinner party, in my underpants, eating Pringles for breakfast. Btw only 12% of the population watch Strictly. The reverence is ridiculous.

[@Togidubnus]

I stopped watching it some time ago, and so did most of the people I know. It gets far too much coverage, It Takes Two and all the build up to the contestants (most of whom I've never heard of) turns it into an over-egged pudding.

[@scattygirl1]

Same with the Euros football- I didn't watch any of it. Same with any subject. Richard mentioned this himself a few episodes ago- [insert show/news item here] matters hugely to those that watch, and nothing to the other 85% of the public. And reverence is the right word- we're no longer a religious society, but human beings always need something to fill that gap.

[@krob2327]

I started figuring that out lately. Just how the propaganda works. We are fed this diet od oh it’s a national institution when most the population have better things to do. It’s a year round tacky drama fest

[@EmoBearRights]

​@@TogidubnusNo body makes you watch It Takes Two I've not bothered with it in years despite being a Strictly fan.

[@simonmandrakejones]

So...they still haven't reviewed Beverly Hills Cop 4? It isn't that I am that interested in the film, but after all this build up of tension I am waiting for Richard and Marina's comments. It is a bit like if Chekhov introduced a gun in the first act and then forgot about it.

[@robovac3557]

I'll gladly step in here. It's bad. Really bad. The way it's shot is terrible. Doesn't look like a movie.

[@lakrids-pibe]

This sound like a movie for people who loved the old Beverly Hills Cop movies from the 80s, and are happy with a casual reheating of the same old tea leaves. They spoke about Netflix making "dad movies" a few episodes ago.

[@andrewmontague9682]

It’s average Netflix fare. 🤷‍♂️

[@Larrydavid89]

I enjoyed it as a lover of the old movies

[@robovac3557]

@@Larrydavid89 🙄

[@macsmiffy2197]

Re Radio. I will welcome the BBC’s new radio channel. Where I live, many of the commercial channels are not available on radio. Older people in general don’t want to stream.

[@2smokindukes]

Lincoln in the Bardo is fantastic and beautiful - and I even double-dipped with the full cast audiobook. Nick Offerman and David Sedaris, plus some surprising cameos from Don Cheadle, Ben Stiller, Lena Dunham etc.

[@tretchikoff2498]

After mentioning the author Freya Mcfadden recently on your podcast. I am currently reading my third novel by her .

[@TravelingBibliophile]

I seem to remember, it might have been from an interview with Bruce or Len, about 16 yrs ago that Strictly was called Strictly Come Dancing to rebrand the old BBC show called Come Dancing which aired from the 1950’s to 1998 (with non-professionals/performers learning the dancing ) Adding Strictly in front of it may have been a bit of homage to Strictly Ballroom but the name was essentially named that as a reference to the other show,

[@JuliaFleming-q9b]

I love your conversations and behind the scenes information. Well done! Just one note if you don't mind ... move the camera so Marina is closer and Richard slightly further away, rather than the other way round as it is now.

[@LauraGomez-bl2so]

What would be the point of cancelling it? They just need to make very big and very public changes to the safety of the contestants, and then go back to being entertaining.

[@lakrids-pibe]

Elena Ferrante's novel *L'amica geniale* is called "My Brilliant Friend" in english. Richard misremembers it as "My Beautiful Friend"

[@lakrids-pibe]

Ah! They show the covers of the books. Nothing to be confused about.

[@Elwaves2925]

I'm not someone who usually calls for the cancellation of a show just because I don't care for it and think it's a piece of crap. Other people like it so it's fair for it to continue while it's popular. However, with all the claims past claims of cheating and the more recent stuff, I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep if it did. It seems to have gone well off the tracks from what made it popular.

[@lakrids-pibe]

What show?

[@Elwaves2925]

@@lakrids-pibe Strictly Come Dancing, the one they discuss at the start. 🙂

[@pjo4622]

Amanda's dance performances on the tv were superb until she left. I thought she might win. It is unfortunate, however, that she did not choose to leave the show earlier when she realised that the training was too harsh for her. The year of innuendos then outright accusations must have been brutal for Giovanni. Is anyone concerned about his mental health ?

[@juliewillard1367]

Would be interesting to see the training footage though.

[@Perchpole]

I worked in a very physical branch of performing arts for over a decade. It was truly blood, sweat and tears. You cannot expect a cossetted tv celeb to enter this environment without giving them a realistic expectation of what to expect.

[@MrHerrGotlieb]

Pretty funny to see that someone doodled a circle onto the TV in the background and also that Richard has an image file poking out of his shirt collar 🤣 Edit: Oh wait! At 16:38 someone sneakily dragged the file off!

[@DSQueenie]

I think the circle is a reflection of a light.

[@lakrids-pibe]

Very relatable. It's authentic. The kids love it.

[@JacquelinePain]

I agreed that it was an accident waiting to happen, as you both said but I don’t think you acknowledged the BBC’s role/culpability in what has just happened in Strictly. The dancers aren’t trained teachers and got no steer from the BBC to help them with this role. The BBC select a wildly uneven group of contestants which only serves to deflate self esteem and inflate the competition. The judges only increase the temperature and are sometimes ridiculous in their criticisms - the contestants are amateurs who have been learning a dance for a week for crying out loud. The BBC never admitted contestant and professional dancer really didn’t gel and therefore swapped a new professional in. The BBC didn’t take their duty of care seriously at all that’s obvious by the fact they never once acted after watching footage of what was happening in the practice studio. And finally the BBC insisted on that ‘schmaltzy’ garbage the contestants spouted during and at the end of show which they knew was totally untrue. In my opinion it’s the BBC that on balance bears an awful lot of the blame for what has happened on Strictly.

[@forestgump99]

In a similar vein , with the Olympics soon to be upon us again, no-one discusses the major psychological issues involved with the training regimes/:social sacrifices/ blinkered adherence to goals with an opaque reward outcome...

[@MsHurleyburly]

Love it when Richard produces the show from his presenter chair: ‘Shall we talk about Strictly?!’

[@TonyP_Yes-its-Me]

Richard is right about people not reading books. I work with a core group of about 20 people, and only 3 of us read books. I have one woman who I can discuss Jack Reacher with, and a guy who is into more literary stuff. And that's it.

[@buzzukfiftythree]

There are far too many ‘elimination’ competitions now on TV. It’s the usual story of a format being used ‘ad nauseam’. I like SCD but the format is becoming very tired. I also think that the spotlight is more and more on the professionals and they are, by nature, very competitive. That risks them pushing the celebs too far.

[@samiecain1244]

I'm a young 51 and have the radio on all day. We can not listen to radio 2 these days, switched to greatest hits, We love it , all familar voices from my teens , Once a week we switch back .. which is Sat 6 pm for Liza Tarbuck & Gary Davies after , but switch back before Fern Cotton annoys our ears :P

[@junegrainger8481]

I am 67, I agree with you. I only listen to Johnnie walker on Sunday afternoon “sounds of the 70’s) and Liza Tarbuck at 6pm.

[@smcmorran100]

Strictly Compliant. We have ways of making you dance.

[@emmahart7500]

Just off topic … where is Marina’s shirt from, love it?

[@dannyellis8030]

Think it’s from the 1980s Emma 😜or am I just getting old

[@emmahart7500]

@@dannyellis8030 I thought it might be, absolutely beautiful, I love the sleeves.

[@PsychoPuppyify]

One thing I can't get over is that this kind of training and behavior just isn't acceptable in any setting anyway. Maybe, perhaps, in the army where things are literally life and death. This should be uncovering and causing uproar in dancing, and any other industry. It is never acceptable to raise your voice to someone, or harm someone, or cause them to be harmed, regardless of how rewarding or "excellent" it causes them to be.

[@ChattieTheMadChatter]

8:19 - beautifully put by Richard, if only we could all be this empathetic. 👏👏👏

[@zweckzero4]

There''s a division though isn't there? There are the cuddly guys with a teddy bear-ish um silhouette let's say, who are clumsy but win the audience's heart. And when they improve they have a strong chance of winning. (It's like Bake Off, the biggest narrative arc wins, not the best.) Then you have the female contestant, already relatively fit and good at performance. Already the audience is slightly suspicious of them. They have to work their arses off to be the absolute best JUST not to have people hate them. So I don't think the army SAS approach is applied equally across the board. And I think the BBC have full knowledge of this. They are casting their little panto. Cuddly dad bod is going to be paired with the delightful and charming sweet but gentle dancer. And the 'difficult' female threat is going to be paired with the strict taskmaster who'll help deliver to the audience what they need. I think I'm saying there is an inherent misogyny in the show. some of it is about some old fashioned gender stuff and chauvinism that ballroom espouses frankly. They've taken some good steps to break that down, same sex partners for example. But it's still there bubbling under the surface.

[@zweckzero4]

and I don't really buy that Amanda Abbington wouldn't know what she was getting herself into. Rehearsal, discipline, stamina, duress, exhaustion, will just be normal to her, she's a theatre actress. I do agree that yes the show has got more professional now. But at the same time you just can't expect a 50 something working mum to become an athlete overnight. And you can't yell at them for not being able to do it. It's just common sense. So, I think you're being way too accepting of this 'just being the way it is'. Many of the dancers seem to get winning contestants through being nice, so it's not a necessity to yell at people. I think you're asking celebs to meet ballroom when ballroom should be coming to meet celebs. audiences screaming for their pound of flesh need to take stock and realise this is another reality show that is not taking duty of care seriously. these contestants are often going through a life change, career low or change (look up what had happened to Amanda Abbington's fiance just before she filmed Strictly) and about to go through huge amounts of public scrutiny along with a gruelling regime to fast track them to become professional dancers. they can be vulnerable. there just needs to be, like anything, some consideration and care. and that is just not that hard!

[@Dragonsitter]

Interestingly I did watch last year first time everish! But it began to feel rather contrived! Seems I wasn’t too far wrong. As an old teacher I don’t think there is ever an excuse to bully or be too tough on someone. Watching that poor lady cry at what was done/said to her. I was shocked at that prof dancers attitude. That’s not entertaining or the way to behave!

[@wonderwoman5528]

I don’t care if the dancers have had strict dance histories, you don’t repeat abusive methods when you come to work here. It’s not acceptable, and then having to work hard gruelling methods to become a dancer is no excuse

[@DSQueenie]

@@wonderwoman5528 I don’t think anyone saying it’s an excuse, but they’re saying it’s a reason. I think many people in these situations honestly are just blind to their behaviour. Like Richard said they go “it didn’t do me any harm“.

[@wonderwoman5528]

@@DSQueenie I think it may be misogyny against women. We didn’t hear of the female professional dancers doing the same

[@jaysmith2858]

It's the BBC. They have history of 🙈🙉🙊 when it comes to people doing or saving things that they shouldn't be.

[@sarahholland2600]

​@@wonderwoman5528A male celeb with a mild disability has now said his female partner made him repeat a jump that has left him with permanent leg issues.

[@sam.13seagulls]

How do I write in please?

[@jackieadam4499]

I thought the point of the show is entertainment not as therapy to change the lives of celebrities!!

[@thecrispymaster]

I'm so glad to see an even discussion on this topic that doesn't demonise either party in this issue. I agree with a lot of what you've said.

[@jimbabwe3246]

Strictly became a popularity contest instead of a dance competition. That's where the downfall started.

[@keithyork8226]

That’s true of all TV “talent” shows.

[@lakrids-pibe]

People like voting Boaty McBoatface to the top. It's just a bit of fun.

[@heatherrobertson6110]

I see it from entirely the opposite perspective. Strictly's downfall started when every body started treating it like a dance competition, not a light entertainment programme. If I want to watch a dance competition, why would I try to compare an amateur 60 year old with an amateur 18 year old with an amateur paralympian whcn I could be watching professionals doing it perfectly instead? I think it is a popularity contest. I think it is about the person who puts their personality across rather than who does the best fleckerl. I want to see somebody trip over their feet occasionally, and I want people to have the freedom to vote for the person who tripped over their feet because they enjoyed how they dealt with it. It has got far too competitive for me in recent years. The real problem is that I don't think that I am right and you are wrong - both of our perspectives are valid and it is this duality that causes the problems with Strictly. Nobody quite knows what it is supposed to be!

[@alfsmith4936]

I don't watch it but have they had a kid in a wheelchair on it yet? They're the scourge of all talent shows!

[@thecrispymaster]

@heatherrobertson6110 I've said this for ages. Strictly is not and was never really a dance competition. Dance competitions are never organised so that the kinds of variety you'd get on Strictly would all compete together. If you want a serious dance competition you'd have to segregate by age, previous experience and physical ability, then probably by gender as well to make it properly fair. But they're never going to do that. I don't have an issue with people choosing to vote as though it's a serious contest, but adamantly declaring that everyone else should do the same is ridiculous. I dance because it brings me joy. And I love to watch other people who find and share that joy in it. That's why I vote. And everyone else has their own reasoning, no more or less valid than another.

[@DSQueenie]

Richard is spot on with the Strictly bullying scandal. Dancing is absolutely brutal and those that make it to the top often have harrowing stories of verbal abuse that start during their *childhood*. Strictly can be a massive star maker for the professional dancers so I’m not surprised that eventually those harsh tactics have started to appear. Especially since, as you said, the celebrity says they want to work hard not knowing what that means in the dancing world.

[@grahamtravers4522]

It starts at the top. The format of the show is designed to make couples fear for their survival, by expelling at least one couple per week. A different format, e.g. all couples competing weekly in a league format, could eliminate some of the pressure imposed by the BBC managers.

[@Schioldanj]

I think it´s just competitive sport in general. Most people would run screaming, if they had to do even half of what an athlete put themselves through on a daily basis.

[@DSQueenie]

@@grahamtravers4522 yeah but would that be good TV?

[@maxbateman6623]

Radio 2 has changed hugely, arguably too quickly and it does feel much much younger both in presenting style and playlist. Ken Bruce and Simon Mayo have gone to Greatest Hits Radio and their shows are as good as ever! Sadly it lacks a strong breakfast show and mid afternoons to be the permanently tuned station Radio 2 was. I can totally understand why listeners are leaving R2, I’m one of them. It didn’t need to change this drastically, numbers were good and longevity is no bad thing. Terry was on for 16 years. Dread to think what radio one is now!? Animal noises and songs about fire trucks to keep the toddlers engaged.

[@jillb71]

The reference to PTSD comes from Amanda Abington stating that something which happened in the training room triggered old emotional wounds. I think it goes back to a previous relationship, in which she has previously hinted there was a ‘lack of kindness’.

[@podfixx3929]

I bought 'We Solve Murders' today - from my local bookstore!

[@rorrt]

I checked the New York times best books list. I was shocked and horrified to see War and Peace wasn't on the list. Completely irrelevant. /s

[@Suspended4thYT]

Interesting discussion about radio programming and the ins and outs of catering for niche genres - in this case 'boomers'. I've always felt there might be a market for a UK radio station to play music from around the globe - ie. chart music and new releases from various other countries - and not just English speaking ones either. We are quite insular in this country with regards to pop music, and I find that quite bizarre, considering Sweden is a bigger exporter of contemporary music. Rather than having to scour blogs and websites, it would be great for those of us who do like listening to what's going on in France, Italy, Chile, Mexico and Sweden, to listen to dedicated programmes on the BBC, or a commercial broadcaster.

[@keefy4390]

The major difference between "Strictly" and "SAS are you tough enough" and "Hell's Kitchen" etc is that, not only the clue is in the title of the latter 2 programmes, but contestants on SCD are often voted through based on their public popularity and personality, especially in the earlier rounds. To therefore show some "warts and all" footage like arguments is likely to be unappealing to the dancer and contestant who's motive (especially if they're a B-list celeb) is probably to gain wider exposure and popularity (ie Joe Sugg) to further their career. It's a tricky one for the SCM producers. I agree, some sort of psychologic testing to assess whether the SCM contestants are suitable for the rigours of training would be appropriate!

[@sorscha1308]

My dad used to be a marathon runner. It was a rare thing in his peak and now every 'fun runner' wants to run a marathon. It's such madness to me. If you're a distance runner, you're a distance runner but most people CAN run a marathon if they do enough training, it will just take them 4-5 hours and may leave them close to death. That's just a really long jog. Why do people do it? Do not understand.

[@webmart70]

Its not fun anymore ..way too competitive ....get rid of it and replace it with some good quality Saturday night drama, movies and comedy

[@EmoBearRights]

Which will result in a ratings plummet - you didn't live through the 80s mate - it was pretty much wall to wall quiz shows, updated variety shows and stuff like Noel's House Party on Saturday night apart from Dr Who and Causality drama was never been a part of it.

[@webmart70]

@@EmoBearRightsIt’s the BBC why do they need or care so much about Sat night rating plummets they are funded by the British public? I have watched BBC spouting out crap Saturday night TV for decades throughout the 70s, 80s and 90s. Strictly is popular garbage watched by millions .. I get that I’m in the minority in despising everything about it even putting the recent ahem.... Infidelity/bullying scandals aside. I merely made the point I wish BBC would put on good quality drama, films or comedy on a Saturday night instead of this crap. P.S -Noels House Party was made in the 90s not 80s… if you’re going to try to give me a history lesson about Saturday night TV get your facts straight.

[@EmoBearRights]

@@webmart70 Lots of other people enjoy it. News flash - the world doesn't revolve around you mate. Most of Saturday TV was sport probably still is - I used to get grumpy when Buffy and Robot Wars got dropped on BBC 2 to show some pissy sport tournament. Do I demand all sport get cancelled on the Beeb? Of course not. Also 90s is still pre Strictly and my point about Saturday night entertainment always being low brow remains. Also the Beeb needs to produce stuff that is popular to justify the licence fee because people like you would be the first to complain if they axed popular stuff you liked. You need a mix but Saturday night has never been the slot for high quality drama on BBC 1 or ITV 1. Never has been, never will be - cancelling a show you like won't change that.

[@webmart70]

@@EmoBearRights I never said anything about cancelling Strictly or anything else you mentioned? 🤣🤣🤣

[@aotea6983]

Well this is crying out for Marina to give us her top 3 lists

[@PC1974]

Strictly has had its time, but it should be cancelled now. Its format is tired, we all know it's not "one big family" as the BBC have been making out for years, and these scandals have damaged the show's reputation.

[@paddynevs5885]

It died when Bruce passed away

[@juliewillard1367]

I have never bought the hype they all love each other. Clearly not!

[@AngelicusImmortus]

Interesting point: more professional actors who have done dance on stage do the show now. There are loads who have dance in their background already; which hints at “fix” Whereas you had Bill Bailey, a professionally trained musician and stand up wins it through determination to prove himself in a different area. Whereas, they had Mark Ramprakash, a cricketer who went on to win; and we saw him get angry and walk out of training - showing he later had his wife present to help him keep him calm.

[@achatwithalex474]

I do think if it weren’t for Strictly’s popularity, it would’ve already been cancelled due to press coverage alone.

[@brunoedwards]

I love that the false perspective created by havine Richard at the front of the table makes him look even more like a gentle giant. Was this intentional, or would swapping their positions make Marina look less tiny on the 2 shot?

[@currykevuk]

So. Let's have a politicians series of Strictly. Plenty if candidates. You know who would be #1. Also I'd like Richard to wear a Van Nistelrooy shirt as befitting his tag.

[@brianridley1102]

100% agree with Richard on the radio 2 issue. Lots of commercial stations have set up based on the abandonment of a certain user base. That has now been accepted by people and they have plenty of options. No need for the BBC to spend money on that. The archive should be offered at cost by the BBC to commercial stations, it doesn't belong to the BBC it belongs to us.

[@alfsmith4936]

Yes, It belongs to us and we want paying, if you want to use our content for commercial purposes.

[@brianridley1102]

@@alfsmith4936 agreed a small %, that's just business. But the people listening to those stations have also already paid for those archives so are entitled to listen to them it shouldn't be an opportunity for the BBC to take advantage of the commercial organisations

[@alfsmith4936]

@@brianridley1102 You should try that argument with a record company, or someone like Disney. There is a huge market for licencing legacy media and if people want to use it, they can pay the fees. Commercial organisations can either afford it, or be left behind by people who are willing to pay.

[@brianridley1102]

@@alfsmith4936 different things public ownership versus commercial ownership. Let's park it there 🙂

[@alfsmith4936]

@@brianridley1102 The organisation owns the copyright. The public (The ones who choose to pay the licence fee) pay for the organisation.. Giving material away, for commercial users to profit from is taking more money from the licence fee payer. Commercial channels can and will pay, if they want to use it and it's no skin off the BBC's nose if they don't.

[@davidsejan]

I did not know about Mick Herron was until he visited Australia. I spent many hours of enjoyment since. So lists are great.

[@Ginger-Tom13]

For me the worrying thing about the fallout from Strictly is the poison that has been thrown at Amanda A on social media. It’s a sad reflection on a large part of SM users that they feel they can hurl abuse and hatred at someone without any first hand knowledge or experience of what they went through.

[@thomasscottwilliams6672]

Dance is a terrifying training ordeal. Strictly used to have a few weeks of friendly competition but now it’s hard marking from week one with limited resonance of the aptitude of the amateur. Compliance, reality balance and psychological support for both partners is the way forward. Own it, share the pro’s backstory regime and share some histrionic behaviour, normalise it, so that the viewer understands and can adapt that to themselves and their family.

[@matthewwalton450]

is someone paying Richard Osman - a best selling author to say the phrase 'by and large' over and over? I laugh every time he says it. Because he says it too much LOL

[@PrincessPriceless97]

She's bi, he's large

[@barrowboy61]

By and large, you're right.

[@thomasscottwilliams6672]

Thank you for mentioning Between the covers, I love books and didn’t know about the show, it’s my new bbc favourite

[@EmoBearRights]

They made changes, they now have chaperones to ensure celebs aren't being mistreated and they let go of the two offending pros. It is a problem of pros having pressure put on them to succeed in order to keep their jobs and celebs being pushed past their limits as they are not used to teaching or were taught these that way. There is corruption in the dancing world and some of that carries through onto the show - there are great interviews with former pros Ian Waite who talks about the pressures and challenges of being a Strictly pro in the light of these scandals and Kevin Clifton who talks about the shadier aspects of the dance world. That said I'm sick of the moaning of the cancel brigade who either were never fans to begin with or have issues with the show evolving beyond that it used to be when it needed to do that to keep up with the times. To cancel a popular show just to keep them happy and because some people had problems however which are being fixed would be ludicrous especially since most celebs who compete have a mostly postive experience and boost their careers as a result. If you cancelled the show or quit watching it you'd be chucking the baby out with the bathwater. That said this is a pretty even handed assessment of the situation. Sorry Richard I should have trusted to handle this with nuance and intelligence whilst being honest. However there's always been problems and the show used to depict couple clashes and some of the pros being harsh more honestly. I think in Di Prima's case pressure to produce results may have been a factor.

[@tonybroken6353]

the shows producers should probably be sacked, they knew about problems and just let it go.

[@chloeclo8958]

this is the difficulty of being in that industry. not everyone can make it you have to be strong

[@TheJamesRedwood]

World's best cooking show, which features genuine support and love, as well as world class cooking - Masterchef Australia

[@tonytcb4504]

It's run its course time for something new!

[@lucybutler6298]

If they can’t produce a show safely, ensuring the wellbeing of everyone involved then they shouldn’t make it. It’s a television show for entertainment purposes, if professional dancers can’t separate the entertainment value and the competition element then it’s unsustainable.

[@margueritahancock5472]

You should not be judging by media when you dont know the facts

[@FarmerJAB]

Is it the law that everyone in the UK must watch Strictly? Everyone seems to watch it like a religion. It doesn’t appeal to me at all

[@nicolawordsworth1811]

Strictly have just doubled down on the "everything is a dream" and "we are all best friends" trope this year. I personally have loved the show but they haven't changed anything.

[@llanelli14]

@11:55 "I don't think they should shutter it for year do you?" Marina not really giving Richard much of an opportunity OR option to answer other that in the negative.

[@pch2230]

What will kill Strictly is how formulaic it is. There has to be some bloke around 60 years old who'll be bumped off first. There has to be someone with a disability which you would think would preclude them from even taking part. Someone has to be from the world of social media. Someone has to have absolutely no sense of rhythm/coordination/theatricality, but be so charming they get through for weeks longer than common sense dictates. At least one front-runner has to get voted off in a "shock" result. It's unbearable, frankly.

[@gymnosophy]

Watching these two Oxbridge alumni trying to justify abuse because it happens elsewhere is disturbing.

[@Perchpole]

What does Oxbridge have to do with it?

[@gymnosophy]

@@Perchpole Not tellin' ya

[@chrisofnottingham]

I've just realised that Matt for some time now, Matt can say "Richard Osman is my brother" :-)

[@jennysobey9890]

I have always respected Mr Osman, especially his writing skills, but am concerned he used the expression a million percent!!! I'm sure he knows that is mathematically impossible, when we know the word percent means, out of 100??? Shocked and stunned of Bristol!! LOL

[@steveb1972]

Talking to friends in the dance and performing world, the “abuse” in Strictly is merely training and is mild compared to the professional dance world. If you can’t take it, don’t try it! 🙄

[@crazygreenlady7907]

I think they should put non-celebrities in the show, not all but some of the contestants, not wannabee social media stars just people approached at random by postcode. Just make it more normal, lets watch real people learning the joy of moving their bodies.

[@elvisleeboy]

Is it no longer considered vulgar and crass to whine in public? This was once regarded as a particularly American trait, with their celebrities regularly appearing on chat shows and complaining about their lives. Some people might regard that professional dancer's behaviour as harsh, but it is also a test of character in how it is responded to. If I was doing Strictly, I would hope to get someone like that, because it would get the best out of me, due to my not being pathetic.

[@RyanJ_]

I find it ridiculous that Richard thinks The BBC should worry about the viability of commercial stations. If a commercial station can't keep listeners on it's own merit then it has itself failed. If people would rather pay their license fee for an ad free service, then that is what people want (not that you need to pay the fee for radio). If the BBC should be focusing on what's good for it's commercial rivals then it should cease all media output. Capital and Kiss would do much better without Radio 1. Boom Radio have invested money to start a radio station while telling The BBC exactly how to make their business unviable. If you find youself the owner of a commercial station with no listeners then perhaps you've made some bad investments decisions.

[@2lisabarth]

KZbin Vlogger Joe Sugg. He vlogged his Strictly journey with weekly behind the scenes of the training he and Dianne Buswell went through. Very eye-opening and shows a beautiful balance of growth, laughs, struggles, and tenacity it takes to train!

[@Alo4321]

Reality shows have always been problematic to me. I watched "Miriam: Death of a reality star" recently and it broke my heart. I know it was 20 years ago but it really shows how horrible these shows can get. Was Richard involved with endemol at the time? How did the company change after that? They interviewed one producer for the doc and she seemed to have little to no regrets, even today, knowing what she knows now

[@macsmiffy2197]

Pamela Stephenson admitted she took dancing lessons as soon as she knew she was doing the show. We know she’s not the only one!

[@hsiadarb8062]

Straight in here, my education was minimal. My life has been long; also Iv'e met some interesting people along the way either through work or socially, unsure about some of the content here but my contention is Strictly Come Dancing has no interest for me so with my limited knowledge I can truly say " I have no answers". Of course many will have opinions brought about by watching or what they have read, mine is still the same "I'm not interested" "Ah" Brought here by chance, The New York Times best books of this decade is also of no interest but listened to the conversation anyway, Now the BBC is my pet hate & has been ( no pun intended) it is long overdue to die and reform or re-boot as a BBC Studios subscription service for those who still want to watch,hear or prop up a broadcaster that's so out of touch with the real world... etc: My suggestion is a full " The rest of entertainment" pod cast come youtube programme about the fall & decline of a Once wonderful thing( 1960's) the BBC... Just a thought, I've just subscribed so see how that goes...

[@dpddawg]

The size of Richard's hands 👐 Thumbs like saveloys!

[@giffgaffnettwork5626]

We all know which podcast couple we want to see compete against each other on the dance floor. Music for Richard, "Murder on the Dance Floor". Give me your suggestion for Marina's appearance folks? What are the chances of them agreeing the gig? BBCs Strictly is an institution and their tightening up of their safeguarding rules, although late, will save the show.

[@Babblebabble87]

Strictly is one of the biggest shows on TV its not getting cancelled for a few rogue dancers, Love Island people literally killed themselves and they happily carried on doing the exact same thing making 20 yr olds into hated figures because they flirted with too many people or acted like 20 yr olds. Why is the BBC always held to a different standard than any other broadcaster? Channel 4 literally tortured people with that reality TV show were they had to stay awake for as long as they humanly could. ITV killed animals for entertainment on I'm a celebrity...

[@terrymann1341]

yes it should, put it out of it's misery and come up with something fresh and new for Saturday Nights...That does not involve "Celebrities" alleged or otherwise...

[@DD-co1zn]

You should consider adding video clips to the show/podcast. They needn't have audio most of the time, so wouldn't interrupt the flow of words. Unless the audio was the point of sharing the clip. This is a perfect example of where a video clip would enhance the viewing experience: 10:01

[@australiainfelix7307]

Still no serious discussion on the biggest serial abusers in entertainment today. Mr Tubcuddle? Alice Munro? Chris Tyson and Mr Beast? All of them ticket-takers. It does make one wonder how many tickets have been taken by these two.

[@fndthousing]

A dancer won on one of the later SAS programs, and they all remarked 'who'd have thought it, a dancer hey?' And I was like, 'do you not know how brutal dance training is?' Outside of special forces they are the most all round physically refined and capable humans to be found

[@Nannyts]

Omg where’s there’s a blame there’s a claim 😅