Should the Dutch 'Black Pete' tradition be abolished?

[@joost3952]

This isn't real journalism and an open discussion.. just 3 people with the same opinion Not saying the opinion is wrong, but there should be multiple views and arguments to realy understand the discussion.

[@mrniceguywinkyface1524]

It's Al Jazeera for a reason. Leftwing indoctrination.

[@claudium6769]

I love Black Pete!!!

[@Magab18]

Of course is a tradition that has colonialist and racist undertones, I don't know how people try to dodge that, it's so obvious.

[@DenUitvreter]

No, not really. It might seem obvious if you're ignorant about both history and the tradition. But there's nothing obvious about it.

[@enochbrent3777]

@@DenUitvreter You say it's not true because you are ignorant and don't know anything about slavery, colorism and racist undertones.

[@itsedavan]

@@enochbrent3777 I can tell you 100 per cent sure that it's not a racist tradition. It's folklore for children, and before "woke nation" decided to rape and frame the tradition for their political agenda, it was just that. They picked the wrong tradition imo, and that's why you get furious reactions. It's a dangerous game btw, because you add meaning where it is not meant. Might backfire in the future. Long live, blind censorship eh.

[@DenUitvreter]

@@enochbrent3777 I know quite a bit about Dutch slavery. The slaves used to be dressed for plantation work and they wouldn't be brought to the Netherlands because there they would be free by law just like everybody else.

[@Alnivol666]

Except it doesn't . And that is the problem. There is only one group today that decides what you believe. They decide the perception of things. The Sinterklaas tradition has nothing to do with colonialism and slavery. Actually it has to do with a certain country's colonialism and slavery, just not the Dutch. But the Moors of North Africa who conquered Spain in the name of Islam. Al Andalus. That is why the black Pete's are wearing fancy expensive Spanish nobleman clothes. If it was about slavery, they would not be wearing fancy clothes. But hey...go on with your narrative. Sure it will score you some virtue points.

[@ayanarqambutt3766]

This is getting stupid

[@Kobi_]

I agree, blackface and portraits of Mohammed for everyone! Freedom is a must

[@mentos93]

@@Kobi_ iran already has its own tradition Hajji Firuz

[@Kobi_]

Mentos 93 I’m aware

[@ARUchannel1]

You know nothing about Christmas

[@IT-qb7dw]

How about we draw a picture of Mohammed.

[@beerblues762]

As a Peter I am offended. We should replace the tradition with black Justin (Trudeau).

[@wavveytae4181]

😫😫🤣🤣😭😭

[@dikkiedik53]

in this case Black Pete isn't a name. Dutch "Zwarte Piet", means "black bird" and that were Wodans ravens :-) Your name is not mentioned.

[@sailormoon9885]

Racist!!!!!

[@red-sv2qf]

Peter is not a race.

[@George_Kush]

@@red-sv2qf nameist bigot

[@bvbocan1]

This is what I say to the Dutch Prime Minister: governments should lead-- not be led

[@dikkiedik53]

Remember, Mark Rutte, the prime minister is a historian academic... I think he doesn't realy give an opinion in this case because he knows.. it was as German tribal rite with black faced people in app 300 AD and he doesn't even want a suggestion he might be discriminating.

[@jeanisis2607]

"I KNOW THY WORKS AND TRIBULATION, AND POVERTY; BUT THOU ART RICH AND I KNOW THE BLASPHEMY OF THEM WHICH SAY THEY ARE JEWS, AND ARE NOT, BUT ARE THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN" ... "REVELATIONS" 2 : 9

[@annazion9350]

Absolutely ‼️ judgment awaits these wicked red devils/Edomites /esau /white people Revelation 13:9-10 [9]If any man have an ear, let him hear. [10]He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. Isaiah 14:21 [21]Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities. ❣️❣️❣️❣️❣️❣️

[@nanopug]

St Nicholas is not white btw.

[@jahbless4ever]

Facts

[@fulippuannaghiti1965]

Even Jesus..

[@Jordi_Llopis_i_Torregrosa96]

St Nicholas was Greek, so yes, he was white by any possible metrics

[@NoName-oq9bx]

@@Jordi_Llopis_i_Torregrosa96 Greek people are considered “white” now..wow u guys keep changing the definition every couple of decades 😂

[@wisemysticaltree9449]

@@Jordi_Llopis_i_Torregrosa96brown asf mate

[@williedaniel6194]

We are not respected in the Netherlands

[@exeuropean]

then go back to where u came from

[@mvdh877]

well go away and never come back if you dont like it here

[@Highlight260]

We should never forget Holland role in slavery and colonialism!! I'm not surprised people would want to defend this racist behavior because they don't see black people as equal human beings!!

[@DenUitvreter]

What do you actually know about the Netherlands role in slavery and colonialism?

[@Highlight260]

@Geert Wilders The fact that you're asking me to tell you the role Holland played in slavery and colonialism tells me how illiterate you are in 2020!!

[@Highlight260]

@@DenUitvreter more than you think!!

[@Highlight260]

@Geert Wilders You're still referring to land stolen by Holland as "our colonies".. Where native and African people was enslaved by the Dutch!! Your mindset has not changed!!

[@mentos93]

Can you spread the word in africa for me? Why are they asking asylum if they don't like the country?

[@ARUchannel1]

Christmas is the best! Love Christianity

[@letheas6175]

This isn't about christmas though.

[@dikkiedik53]

Christmas was the Norse Mythology "Jul" fest.. The birth of the new year on the winter solstice, the returning light (candles) etc .. The Romans changed it.. to the Birth of christ.. Many symbols from the old fest are part of Chrismas today.

[@cesar5478]

Christinity has nothing to do with Christmas. It's a satanic holiday! Wake up!

[@sjefkerolleman2094]

@@cesar5478 Calling something Satanism is Christian oppression Christmas is much older than the history of the god of aberham The Christmas party actually starts on December 5, the wodans day

[@red-sv2qf]

But we're not criticizing Christianity over here we're criticizing black face.

[@slicktyz7989]

What fuckery is that

[@jevonteshelton1331]

I don't mind celebrating Christmas, but don't use blackface.

[@spraakkanon]

You misunderstood: it's not a Christmas tradition. This tradition is celebrated between November and December 6. Also: it is not your business. If we want to celebrate this racist tradition than you have no choice but to accept, it is not your country, not your house, not your street, not your culture.

[@windvlaag4404]

There is nothing wrong with blackface. Your command is pure racism to all dark skinned people.

[@lopsideduser-lz1bg2oc7r]

I don't think they necessarily do it to racially abuse but it something that evolved without it being discussed it could perhaps hurt some groups,could be wrong but that what it looks like.

[@TRUTHBETOLD.DB_313]

If your not born with brown skin then don't paint it on your pale faces!

[@yeetyeet3426]

Nah I’ll do it again 😌💅🏻

[@TRUTHBETOLD.DB_313]

@@yeetyeet3426 Then get ready to get what you got coming!

[@yeetyeet3426]

@@TRUTHBETOLD.DB_313 what u gonna do 😗

[@chrisd.4610]

Tanning Salons says hi!

[@IT-qb7dw]

@@yeetyeet3426 Of course u want to. Everyone wants to be black these days

[@user-tc9vg5jc1z]

Wow, such a diverse set of opinions on that panel, I really feel like all sides of the debate were represented.

[@obamalastname34]

lmao

[@toddb9313]

It is no different in any way to black face. Stating that it is a holiday character is no different to any person who has ever used black face at a party.

[@toddb9313]

@@daftwod not like you are the first racist to say that

[@dikkiedik53]

How would you portray a Black raven as a human being?

[@mrniceguywinkyface1524]

How about Dave Chapelle Todd B? Ran away from the conversation but didn't change your mind I'm sure, typical lefty.

[@toddb9313]

@@mrniceguywinkyface1524 Who?

[@mrniceguywinkyface1524]

@@toddb9313 You don't know Dave Chapelle is? He did whiteface obviously and you're weak for never responding to anyone, just don't vote if you're too lazy to debate people, it'll save your country.

[@williedaniel6194]

Racist is like breast milk 🥛 it's international

[@ornachia2489]

Their Santa look like pope.

[@reefyyy]

Our santa claus is the original.

[@Ned-nw6ge]

That's because Saint Nicholas was a bishop

[@reefyyy]

@@user-nx6md1yl5c my santa? My santa is Sinterklaas which is the original Santa claus. Yes the americans copied our sinterklaas.

[@joostvanassenbergh180]

@@christiankhoury9343 Santa Claus is based on multiple characters, including Sinterklaas. Which is bases on Saint Nicholas, not the other way around.

[@joostvanassenbergh180]

@@christiankhoury9343 No, I don't think that there is as much Christianity as there used to be. But we still celebrate these Cristian traditions, and I love that. I personnaly a not religious, but my family is.

[@dikkiedik53]

I love the way you took time to dive in the history of Sinterklaas. But my opinion is your dive was not deep enough. First of all we talk about the history of fairytales, not reality. The figures are not real people. Before the Christianity was brought to the Netherlands by the Roman Empire, the people living in the North of Europe had their own gods and sages. The Norse mythology. The people living in the Netherlands are for the largest part descendants of German tribes and Scandinavian people, the Vikings. In Norse mythology there was the Ravengod, Uppergod named Odin. By the German tribes he was called Wodan. There are pictures and descriptions of this figure. In general it's an older man, with long white hair and a long white beard. He rode a grey (8 legged) horse, named Sleipnir, through the sky and he was assisted by two black ravens named Huginn and Muninn ( memory and consience). Those black ravens spied all year on the people how they behaved and reported daily to Odin/Wodan. Ravens build nests in chimneys and fly with twigs in their mouth to build the nest. The stories about Odin/Wodan were quite violent. Every year the people celebrated the good harvest and they brought offers for a firtile next year. Odin/Wodan also was a god that spoke in rhimes, poëtry so to say. The story is the ravens threw nuts and grain through the chimney. The ravens also would hit bad kids with the bunch of twigs. Al lot of alcohol was consumed to get in a certain spiritual mood of the main figure. It looks like this figure was based on Odin/Wodan and his ravens. Then came the Roman Empire and the celebrations were forbidden by the Roman Catholic religion. A Roman priest that had ended the celebrations was killed by the Frisians in the North of the Netherlands and Germany. It was Bonifatius, killed at 5 juni 754 in Dokkum. The Romans ended the hostilities by offering a replacement celebration. That became the fairytale of Sint Nicolaas. At that time Turkey was part of the Roman Empire and was Christian. The story was created around the Bisshop of Myra in Turkey. Between 1568 and 1648 the Netherlands were occupied by the King of Spain. After this period the fairytale has altered and Sinterklaas came from Spain. The fairytale still had some quite violent things in it. A lot of kids were frightened to go in the bag and would be taken away. Also they were hit with a bunch of twigs by the black figures. In 1850 the schoolteacher, Jan Schenkman, altered the fairytale to a more friendly fairytale. In the present still very often Sinterklaas is offered strong alcohol like jenever. The black helpers of today still have a very visible large feather on their hats and still inform and help Sinterklaas. In some Dutch dialects a bird is called a "pietje". My opinion is "Zwarte Piet" literally translated means "Zwarte Vogel" (Black Bird) and that fits to the helpers of the ravengod. Odin/Wodan. Enjoy the Sinterklaas celebrations and make your "Sinterklaas rijmpjes"... Sinterklaas rhimes, the special poëtry. There is not even a trace of discrimination ... just a lack of knowlegde.

[@NIMSINS]

What about the features man not tryna discredit u but just look at the features the hair the lips.

[@dikkiedik53]

@@NIMSINS That's true.. but also that was a lack of knowledge. When I look at films about the parade in the 1950's in Amsterdam, all the black helpers had straight dark hair and no red lips, they looked like the people from Spain and were dressed as noblemen. At that moment there were only a few black people in the Netherlands and nobody made remarks. In 1850 Schenkman has made the raven to a moor. Now we need to make it a raven again. The looks of the fairytale figure has altered many times from app 300 AD to present times. but... the black color and the feather were allways part of the figure and it was never intended to be a slave and certainly it was never ment to hurt anybodies feelings on purpose. We need to talk together and alter the figures looks, but the historic facts are the color black and the feather so the actors can stay anonymus. My example; when I was 5 years old my dad played Sinterklaas and a cousin played Zwarte Piet and both I didn't recognise. That's the function of the black make-up and the beard and wig. By the way.. before WW2 my dad helped Jewish refugees from Germany. My dad was forced (slave) labour in Germany for 2 1/2 years. He gave me good upbringing and at the age of 13-14 in 1966, I wrote an essay for school and it was named "From slavery to racial hate." I hate it when people are discriminated. Shouting "discrimination" and violent protesting blocked the talking and so blocked a real solution. My hope is we come on talking terms again and solve the dispute.

[@Alnivol666]

@@NIMSINS So what? They represent Moorish slave traders. The reason black Pete looks like that is because of Islamic slave trading. That is why they put children in a bag and take them to Spain. Black Pete is wearing fancy aristocratic Spanish clothes...very expensive. That is how you know it is a reference to the Moorish slave traders. And yes...they were black.

[@NIMSINS]

@@Alnivol666 yeah there were moorish slave traders. Just like there was Miskito slave traders in the Caribbean. People have an issue with the caricature.

[@Alnivol666]

@@NIMSINS But the issue is all made up. It is based on a lie. Funny how nobody mentions the Barbary slave trades when black Pete comes up. You only hear one narrative that sounds like a repetition of the ideological propaganda from the US. It is almost like somebody is pushing this on people. The thing is this controversy is fairly recent and it is actually imported from the US by activists.

[@kxmode]

(Mark 7:13) "you make the word of God invalid by your tradition that you have handed down." If you're thinking, "that Santa looks like the pope," it is worth noting the outfit originates from ancient Babylonian. The Mitre is the same hat Babylonian priests wore in worship to their pagan fish-god, Dagon. Google, "Dagon priests Babylon," and click Images to see what I mean. People think they're worshipping god. In fact, what they're doing is celebrating a confluence of many different pagan religions. The primary driver of Christmas comes from an ancient Roman pagan festival called Saturnalia, a feast to Saturn, the Roman god of the harvest. None of this is top-secret. You can find it everywhere, even in Wikipedia.

[@juriaan5786]

uhmm dude? this is not about god lmoa

[@kxmode]

@@juriaan5786 It's about the origins of Christmas, and by celebrating something pagan, people make the word of God, the Bible, invalid by their traditions.

[@默-c1r]

It's wild that they are still debating this in 2022, the Netherlands is decades behind the UK, US, and Canada in terms of race relations. Given that the Netherlands traded slaves and colonized, it's shocking that they can claim that Pete has nothing to do with race.

[@spraakkanon]

Oh, we admit that it is racist. It is however noones business. So we enjoy this and you have no choice but to accept.

[@默-c1r]

@A W Actually I do have that right. Also, the Dutch don't hold back from criticizing or commenting, and don't the Dutch have a reputation of transparency and honesty? Guess that doesn't apply to racist traditions

[@spraakkanon]

@@默-c1r No, you don't have that right. Interesting that you think you know Dutch law better than us because you have just demonstrated that you don't. You are free to give your opinion about it (according to Dutch law), you are not free to force us to stop celebrating it (according to Dutch law). Do realise that the Netherlands is an independent country with their own laws. Your laws in your country do not supercede our laws in the Netherlands but vice versa. So you have no choice but to accept that we will not follow your 'advise'.

[@默-c1r]

@@spraakkanon My youtube comment will force all Dutch people to stop being racist? Please. I DO have the right to criticize racism. If Dutch people choose to embarass themselves, that's their choice.

[@spraakkanon]

@@默-c1r You misunderstood me. I never said that you don't have the right to criticize racism. I however said that we have the right to not consider your criticism and continue being racist and embaressing, it is our business, it is our house, our street, our country. So in the end we agree.

[@matthewkopp2391]

Traditions change all the time for various reasons. I think it’s fine if Zwarte Pete changes to Soote Pete. But I also would warn the activists of African descent that they might be erasing their own history. What is the likely origin of Zwarte Pete? People complain it’s from slavery because the 1850 story describes him as a free servant. The author was actually part of an abolitionist society so I doubt he meant it in a derogatory way. But the evolution of Zwarte Pete in Renaissance clothing and coming from Spain is far more important symbolism, as Moors and Jews took refuge in the Netherlands and totally changed Dutch society through Mercantilism. And Mercantilism far from being only „white“ was the product of a new Renaissance of multi-ethnic multi-religious society of tolerance, commerce and liberalism. Furthermore there is also a history of African Dutch street performers and theater that very well may be a real lineage. We know that many theaters originated from Jews and moors while anabaptists of Netherlands strictly prohibited attending theater. This is an important because in the 1700‘s was the emergence of painted actors in general both white-face and black-face clowns. The fact that American clowns use „white-face“ can be traced to this era. No one considers Bozo the clown an exaggerated white stereotype but that is precisely it’s origins. The fact that black-face existed in Europe is testimony that Comedia del ARTE, mime, harlequinade, and buffoon included both black and white actors and characters. As far as other ethnicities depicting white People stereotypes it is a part of African culture in the depiction of Christian missionaries in a ridiculous way. And Vodoo history, though not depicting „white“ a performer will be in white face which is associated with death. Baron Samadi is often portrayed as white because he’s a skeleton but he is really François Duvalier a mass murderer of Europeans in Haiti. The equivalent is not Piet but a white guy dressing up as Adolph Hitler. The Elgeba God is portrayed racially as half White and half black while in Africa original tradition he was half red and half green. I would hate for that tradition to be erased by overly sensitive ignorant Europeans, especially when they realize that the Haitian rebellion was a massacre of Europeans whether slave holders or not. Should cancel culture now visit Haiti? I hope not. The fact that Zwarte piete wears such fancy clothing also has an important reference. Some of the expelled Jews and Moors of Spain were connected to the Silk trade routes which brought a great deal of wealth to Holland. In fact it was a trade monopolized by Jews, Muslim and newly converted Hugoneuts who were of moorish Spanish decent some of darker complexion. Perhaps a better way for people of African descent is instead of banning the character they should reclaim the character occupy the character and also rewrite it and educate children based on historical information. A new Zwarte Pete could actually teach about tolerance of religion tolerance of different ethnicities, and the positive influence Africans and Dark skinned moor Spaniards had on the whole of Dutch society historically. In fact why not allow African-Dutch citizens to Monopolize the character. Or possibly even reverse the characters make a black SinterKlaas and white Piet? The point is outrage culture seems to be completely iconoclastic in the same way Puritan, Muslim, and Maoists were extremely iconoclastic. Instead of being iconoclastic the tradition can transform in various positive ways, think more creatively.

[@sherrisolomon2843]

Matte..... Oh! I guess you mean like how the N word was rebranded by the hip hop community? Yeah right? No thank you.

[@spraakkanon]

You misspelled it, it is 'zwarte piet'. Racist or not, if we want to celebrate it than others have no choice but to accept. Interesting that outsiders think they have a seat at the negotiation table.

[@spraakkanon]

@@sherrisolomon2843 You don't have to celebrate zwarte piet, some Dutch people do. It is their business so only they decide.

[@zminc.8496]

Yes ban it

[@spraakkanon]

You do not have a seat at the negotiation table. It is not your country, not your street, not your house, not your child. Fascinating how people, an ocean away, think they have a say in something that couldn't be more private. The only people who decide on this are the Dutch.

[@lovelymix8056]

@@spraakkanon but what about what the blacks and other minorities who live in the Netherlands have to say? Aren’t they Dutch too?

[@spraakkanon]

@@lovelymix8056 Good question, answer: Is an American of European or African descent entitled to decide over Sioux, Navajo, Cherokee or any other native group's traditions? You might be an American but not part of said native groups. So no, it is the tradition of the natives who live there so you can accept them or migrate. Why would it be different for the Netherlands? We are the natives with our traditions here so why do we not have the same fundamental right to determine our culture in our own land? ....that is an obvious double standard that you need to justify first. I have asked this to many people who said the same as you and all of them stormed off without being able to give an actual response.

[@spraakkanon]

@@lovelymix8056 Seems that you also don't have an answer. Sorry but it seems that you had a double standard.

[@williedaniel6194]

Denied housing because of the color of there's skin

[@spraakkanon]

huge crime rates

[@williedaniel6194]

Now They have windmills all over the place

[@cosmicparticles9658]

Cancel culture will eventually cancel itself

[@SerenityM54L2SAM5L5N1]

Especially if you legislate against cancel culture to stamp it out.

[@carlk9213]

Yes, but what is the cultural damage before cancel culture disappears.

[@ManuelGarcia-oz9uo]

You white people wouldn't like it if brown people made fun of whites dressed up and mocked them that isnt cancel culture

[@carlk9213]

@@ManuelGarcia-oz9uo white people wouldn't care.

[@ManuelGarcia-oz9uo]

@@carlk9213 yes they would if you were opress by black people and treated like them in south africa or usa and europe by govt you would be protesting in the streets

[@williedaniel6194]

Grotesque character Black ⚫️ Pete

[@LOUDTV_Voices]

These are the same Dutch people that colonized South Africa & instituted the racist Apartheid system. As native South Africans, we're not surprised.

[@spraakkanon]

@@LOUDTV_Voices Indeed, so what is wrong with this tradition?

[@Nelson_504]

11:22 👏Thank you👏 Roasting the "This-is-not-relevant" argument with class👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@williedaniel6194]

Grotesque Black Pete ⚫️

[@lf1496]

This is an oddity how wt people are obsessed with black skin. I look at this and wonder what is wrong with them? It's seems to be some kind of mental neurosis, some melanin envy or something 😂 it doesn't make me angry it's just perplexing, something truly strange.🤔

[@DenUitvreter]

The Dutch have always been fascinated with anyting from far away, the further the better. Most non white has always been seen as interesting and attractive. In the 30's the blacks which were mostly male had no problem getting girls, nor did the Chinese who were much more courteous than the Dutch men.

[@mentos93]

In africa tribes paint their faces white. Who cares use any color you want.

[@sunnya4310]

@@mentos93 Are they painting their bodies to look like white people?

[@user-ts8hm7pr8o]

I think you are the obsessed one, just the fact you need to call yourself la mulata shows you have skin colour issues.

[@user-ts8hm7pr8o]

@@DenUitvreter That happens in every country in the world, try walking in am african village as a non black and you will see

[@Kaloapoele]

The stupid “devils advocate” questions this interviewer asks them are so exhausting.

[@wavveytae4181]

This tradition is overtly racists and needs to be banned. If they wanted to do a character of a black man then why don't they get an actual black man to play this character

[@DenUitvreter]

We don't just 'get a black man' in the Netherlands, it has never worked that way here. It's just a very effective disguise for the tens of thousands of aunts, uncles, neighbours and friends (black or white) that play the magical duo of Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet every year. Also the blacks have to paint their faces. We also don't just get a white bearded man to play Sinterklaas because that doesn't work either.

[@itsedavan]

It's a folklore figure. Sometimes black people do play the role btw, but most of the time it's white people, which makes sense in a predominantly white society. You obviously don't know the tradition. The irony is that with coverage like this it is framed as racist and it pushes sides apart. This is not the Kluklux clan, the black minstrel or some other racist utterance. But if you wanted, you could see it as that of course. Should you though, or should you give it the benefit of the doubt? Perhaps it's also a bit racist to suspect that every thing white people do has racist motives?

[@mrniceguywinkyface1524]

Just don't come here mate we rather have our party than you living here.

[@spraakkanon]

You do not have a seat at the negotiation table. It is not your country, not your street, not your house, not your child. Fascinating how people, an ocean away, think they have a say in something that couldn't be more private. The only people who decide on this are the Dutch.

[@kippesnikkel5217]

If you don't like it? There is a 140 different countries you can go to.

[@princessserenity7316]

They were born there, it is just as much their countrt.

[@kippesnikkel5217]

@@princessserenity7316 no. It isn't.

[@NoName-oq9bx]

In the long run this will be terrible for people like u

[@spraakkanon]

​@@princessserenity7316 it might be their country but not their culture. just like a white American should not mind the business of Sioux, Cheyenne or other native peoples. migrants have just as little excuse to do that with the Dutch. The Dutch are not only a nation but also a people.

[@yeenxx5814]

Sinterklaas wie kent hem niet!?

[@annaannna6402]

Ik ken hem niet.

[@cynthiaschellen3751]

Ik ni

[@williedaniel6194]

Black Pete in Britain 🇬🇧

[@kianchampion9581]

In Iran we have similar costume in our national holiday of Nowrooz were a guy paint himself black and we call him Amoo Nowrooz , its not racist its traditional cultural thing that need to be respected just like some tribes and africa paint them selves white.

[@verlinjoseph5438]

Which african tribes paint themselves white and mock europeans?

[@Kobi_]

Yeah it’s pretty much art, just like drawing Mohammed. Freedom for all!

[@alcobra8834]

Stupid comment.

[@enochbrent3777]

This thing you call tradition and should be respected came from slavery and was used in television by white to show how black people behaved and a time of slavery and it is racist so what do you mean?

[@kianchampion9581]

@@enochbrent3777 what proof do you have that they are mocking African people ?

[@robofuhrman1295]

of course should not. It is a tradition. If monkey donkies don't like it, no one is forcing them to attend the Black Petes festivities

[@williedaniel6194]

Black Pete Santa Clara 🎅 🧑‍🎄

[@williedaniel6194]

Netherlands 🇳🇱 black pete

[@EtaCarinae-h1z]

A discussion about a tradition in the netherlands. And every person in disussion is black. This is pure racism

[@serious1756]

Sick of those sensitive minds, get a life and stop ruining children's party.

[@bamlakbekele6494]

How is not agreeing with black face sensitive

[@enochbrent3777]

You are ignorant, if it is racist then it racist it doesn't matter if it makes people happy because it was used to Mike black people on television in the 70's, 80's and 90's.

[@Ned-nw6ge]

They can't, they gotta find something to blame white people for their problems.

[@serious1756]

@@Ned-nw6ge Racism is when other cultures are excluded to join in a tradition. It is just plain ignorance and stupidity to call this children's party racial.

[@serious1756]

@@enochbrent3777 you call me ignorant 😄but its you who should wonder why spoiling a children's party is so important to you. Nothing better to do with your ignorant life i assume?

[@purplecubeman01]

So why are people not from that country taking issue with this? This is the definition of stay in your lane.

[@ksztyrix]

Should muslim tradition of walking around black meteorite should be abolished?

[@gosikh]

Yes, it is TIME. It is a white man's privilidge.

[@mrniceguywinkyface1524]

U cant even write privilege, stop talking go educate yourself and then move back to Africa.

[@spraakkanon]

You do not have a seat at the negotiation table. It is not your country, not your street, not your house, not your child. Fascinating how people, an ocean away, think they have a say in something that couldn't be more private. The only people who decide on this are the Dutch.

[@laughingatu3699]

Not everything that offends you is racist OMG 😒

[@wavveytae4181]

This is racists dumbass 🙄

[@laughingatu3699]

@@wavveytae4181 I'm sorry but you need a better argument than "because I said so because I'm offended" removing racism doesn't mean making you feel better idiot!

[@humpbacksquarepants5580]

@@laughingatu3699 lol saying it's not racist is not an argument idiot !

[@kinggbull]

At the end of the day you move there, its liking moving to Mexico crying about a Day of the Dead. This is somthing thats 100s of years old 1850. An I'm black!

[@nainai6030]

No. No it’s not like that at all. Who does el Dia de los Muertos demean and degrade? And I say that as a Black person who lives in a heavily Mexican city that celebrates the Day of the Dead.

[@stellagyan6942]

This racist tradition started during slavery. It didn’t start before slavery and it didn’t start after slavery was abolished. It started in the 1850s and slavery was abolished in 1863. There were many slaves living in the Netherlands when this racist tradition begun; how condescending and disrespectful is that??!

[@Remie1529]

You really tell this story very much on one side, Next time it might also be useful to let the other side tell their story. But I agree black pete is not anymore from this time and The Netherlands is good on the way with the change. You can't expect a tradition to change just like that.

[@dikkiedik53]

Black Pete is actually not a name but a description for a black bird. even today there is a feather on the hat of Black Pete.. Also birds in older Dutch are called "pietjes"... The black bird is actually a black Raven. Compare Odin/Wodan and Sinterklaas.. there are way to many resemblences to ignore. Sinterklaas descends from Wodan in the Netherlands.

[@najm1376]

It was made during racist time to amuse racist people so you’re saying it’s OK for them to take their time doing racist things because it’s enjoyable...?

[@Remie1529]

@@najm1376 You are now putting become in my mouth. I say you can't expect everything to change from 1 day to another.

[@najm1376]

@@Remie1529 but this has literally been a problem for years like how long does it take someone to not have a. racist festival

[@Remie1529]

@@najm1376 You can ban it, but that doesn't change people's mindset that unfortunately takes a little longer. You can't expect everyone to change right away if they've been doing it for so 60 years as an example.

[@عبدالقوي-ت1و]

10:58 11:18 11:39 11:53

[@williedaniel6194]

Harold Greene Pete

[@JAYSPLASHMUSIC]

so just to clarify... SWARTHY means BLACK correct?

[@spraakkanon]

Not in modern Dutch

[@williedaniel6194]

Black ⚫️ face

[@DoughHead]

How about the Netherlands is for the Dutch and people who have a problem with the Dutch stay out of the Netherlands?

[@bg8881]

LMAO

[@mvdh877]

Amen

[@williedaniel6194]

Black Pete

[@zarkasiasnawi3832]

In indonesia santa claus is sinterklas, but i don't know they have black pete

[@robertboender5816]

Let's talk about the middle east slave trade and the the slaves still existing today.

[@kevinolamide4364]

We will gt there

[@tracyyah12tribes]

Wicked

[@4trightcitizen895]

Great programme. Well done. It is good to keep the discussion going and be open and always think of how to uplift each other. Great respect for the activists who awaken the population.

[@clyderstone9647]

Lol.

[@spraakkanon]

If the Dutch chose to continue this than you have no choice but to accept. It is their home.

[@4trightcitizen895]

No you actually don't. But you can still be respectful and sensitive to their worries, complaints and want. In a global society you live and let live and have also dialogue, interaction and sometimes clash of opinions. Disagreeing with ideas or behaviour must not get in the way of mutual understanding, respect and interaction.

[@spraakkanon]

@@4trightcitizen895 You do know that what you just said, works both ways. I have the sneeking suspicion that you will only use it to get what you want and to continue pushing until you get it.

[@4trightcitizen895]

@@spraakkanon I actually agree with what you just said. There are those who do that.

[@iopohable]

lol how did they get away with this trash for so long? sneaky dutch

[@spraakkanon]

Because you do not have a seat at the negotiation table. It is not your country, not your street, not your house, not your child. Fascinating how people, an ocean away, think they have a say in something that couldn't be more private. The only people who decide on this are the Dutch. nothing sneaky about that

[@annazion9350]

This is their ultimate payback /judgment... Revelation 13:9-10 [9]If any man have an ear, let him hear. [10]He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. Isaiah 14:21 [21]Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

[@ak_entertainment-11]

I think they are joking 😂😂

[@tristancavendish-grosvenor8932]

Because you is white ...sit down fool.I am Dutch and this is RACISM

[@artypyrec4186]

I thought this was unimportant until they said they already changed the character, then it just becomes "what can we build around blackface". Still don't care enough.

[@ElCharroNegro2023]

It is just a tradition and so there are many all over the world, for example, in Mexico there are "" los chilolos "(the blonde people) who are native Mexican people who wear white masks with blonde hair and in their traditional festivals they perform a dance to celebrate the defeat and expulsion of Europeans from their lands ... and no one has been offended even though they are actually doing a "" whiteface"" In fact, many European tourists visit Mexico go to these celebrations and nobody bothers them.

[@ahgavlive4517]

If y'all just hire black people (santa too) it would be much better

[@spraakkanon]

Who is going to pay for it? You? We don't hire these people mostly, they are volunteers

[@GeneralPlompie]

Ja, probeer het.

[@jondoe3623]

Why should then get rid of a tradition because someone is offended by it. You don't like don't watch it.

[@Lobos222]

So if your nation had Pedo festival and had that since the 1800. You would be super for it?

[@stellagyan6942]

This racist tradition started during slavery. It didn’t start before slavery and it didn’t start after slavery was abolished. It started in the 1850s and slavery was abolished in 1863. There were many slaves living in the Netherlands when this racist tradition begun; how condescending and disrespectful is that??

[@stellagyan6942]

You’re a racist pig 🐽 🐷 🐖 !! Why didn’t you invent your little stupid tradition before black people were slaves in the Netherlands??

[@mrworldwide2722]

Maybe if these people would look into the peagan cultures of europe and look More into the history of black pete and sinterklaas and the relationship between the Netherlands and Spain and the Morish people they would understand. But they like to scream racist a lot more.

[@williedaniel6194]

Harold Greene This world 🌎 is for winner's l do not Mickey mouse anyone King Harold

[@williedaniel6194]

Global slave Trade Grotesque character

[@andamlakandfitret6561]

Why is this even a question to a "civilised nation". Lol

[@andamlakandfitret6561]

@@daftwod nothing to do with weakness if you ask me but everything to do how un civilized some of those European nations actually are. But you call your selves the kings of human rights. No you don't need my help, but might as well consider how others feel about such. Don't get mad at me, just told you the truth. Chusse

[@andamlakandfitret6561]

@@daftwod I am still arguing the stereotype behind the costume can be tought and ppl views of that old thought can change through information. It makes you look bad for naive thought of your kind there is absolutely nothing behind that costume. I happen to watch a doc about ppl views so please save your breath and hope ppl learn.

[@andamlakandfitret6561]

@@daftwod you may need help to be able to see what's in front of you.

[@andamlakandfitret6561]

@@daftwod you tried your best to divert the subject, you obviously don't get it. So be it. I am Out. G.luck.

[@spraakkanon]

You do not have a seat at the negotiation table. It is not your country, not your street, not your house, not your child. Fascinating how people, an ocean away, think they have a say in something that couldn't be more private. The only people who decide on this are the Dutch.

[@marianmarkx1153]

The Dutch people loved black Pete/ zwarte Piet! Thanks to many people who destroyed Zwarte Piet and so our Dutch tradition! It has NOTHING to do with racisme! Please give back our zwarte Piet! ❤

[@casualbeaver]

Yeah it was meant for children not for americans who have nothing to do with this. Its not meant in a racist way at all iff you think its racist go get a life.

[@libvlog2264]

Elegant panel .

[@htxhallitronix1569]

Pure racism

[@EtaCarinae-h1z]

This is complete ridiculous. Zwarte piet never never never was a black person. If you do not understand this, it is a sign that you do not understand this tradition and therefore racism towards the dutch people

[@janharml]

A christmas tradition? I see you realy did the resaerce on the subject. Sinterklaas is on dec 5! After that in the Netherlands the chrismas season starts. If you can't even get this right, wat can you?

[@spijbelkind]

Should the death penalty be abolished? Al Jazeera: Invites 3 guys from death row

[@bakkhan5733]

so you want the to invite racists?

[@spijbelkind]

@@bakkhan5733 I dont know, maybe a native dutch person because this is their tradition and holiday they are discussing about?

[@bakkhan5733]

@@spijbelkind this guy is a dutch national so he is dutch. this ia the very issue, anyone thats not white isnt considered equal all thanks to these types of so called traditions.

[@spijbelkind]

@@bakkhan5733 Take a chill pill and dont always yell racism out of thin air. All im saying is to get the whole side of the story would be better to include a white dutch person imo. Do i really need to explain this my god

[@bakkhan5733]

@@spijbelkind why white person so you think a non white person cant say something that you might agree with? see the issue lies with you ,change your mentality because you have racial bias.

[@Blackman-np3rx]

This is unacceptable get rid of black pete

[@PJHMX]

Get rid of stupid automatism to relate racism with black people. Black Pete is most of the time not a black person but a white person representing it. Their message is not ridicule that group of people but to respect it as part of history. Black Pete is respected figure in dutch St Nicolas festive tradition. See my first explanation in previous post for details.

[@Blackman-np3rx]

@@PJHMX shut up

[@carlk9213]

@@Blackman-np3rx you telling him to shut up doesn't make you right or him wrong you know, Black Pete is very loved and respected figure in dutch St Nicolas festive tradition, and was never a character meant to ridicule black people like blackface was in the usa.

[@Blackman-np3rx]

@@PJHMX shut up

[@Blackman-np3rx]

@@carlk9213 you shut up too

[@timothykramer2551]

Get over it.. black Peet love it

[@obamalastname34]

NOPE coming from an asian.

[@spraakkanon]

You do not have a seat at the negotiation table. It is not your country, not your street, not your house, not your child. Fascinating how people, an ocean away, think they have a say in something that couldn't be more private. The only people who decide on this are the Dutch.

[@stellagyan6942]

@@spraakkanon This racist tradition started during slavery. It didn’t start before slavery and it didn’t start after slavery was abolished. It started in the 1850s and slavery was abolished in 1863. There were many slaves living in the Netherlands when this racist tradition begun; how condescending and disrespectful is that??

[@spraakkanon]

@@stellagyan6942 You are missing my point. The fact that it is racist still gives you no right to mind the Dutch people their private business. If they wish to celebrate a racist tradition in THEIR country than you have to accept that. They make the rules, that includes being racist. You seem to think that their right to determine what they do in their own streets and homes is suddenly off the table if they do something racist, you thought wrong. There is no discussion about that possible because our discussion would be about what the Dutch do IN THE NETHERLANDS...where the Dutch make the rules. Your laws don't apply there.

[@tamacat920]

I wish America also had a black face holiday :(

[@annazion9350]

Revelation 13:9-10 [9]If any man have an ear, let him hear. [10]He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. Isaiah 14:21 [21]Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

[@isbieiskandar7641]

christianity is racist even from the begining

[@dannywijnker4812]

If all you can see is his color… then who is the racist?? You are..

[@mcee6193]

the blacks petes were beautiful cloths by the way

[@joseemarsh467]

No it’s a time old tradition

[@timothykramer2551]

No this a good black man

[@byroncurrin227]

Everyone LOVES Black Pete....it's over 200 years old....LONG before it became controversial....

[@wildhias6195]

4 people 1 opinion

[@warrenforest7417]

Lets cancel cancel culture

[@Escekar]

Leave Black Pete alone., it has nothing to do with BLM…

[@sailormoon9885]

Has a whole lot to do with disgusting caricatures of Black people though 😒

[@Escekar]

@@sailormoon9885 I really don’t know a lot about Black Pete. But it was done long time before BLM movement. Yes may be there is some race related reason fir Black Pete. And I’m open to be informed about it..

[@sailormoon9885]

@@Escekar I am Black and I do not agree with or participate in the BLM movement. Your Black Face Pete came out around the time of colonialism and black face stereotypes of Black people were popularized.. It is disgusting for whites to paint themselves up as African descended people and clown around like this......period.

[@sailormoon9885]

@@Escekar Just admit your country is racist against Black people and move on. We can all see it anyways.

[@Escekar]

@@sailormoon9885 and I also don’t participate in the BLM movement. Activism is not something I agree with at the moment. Using Violence to get a message across is the wrong message.

[@GROZNAYA]

I am aware that freedom of speech and expression do not exist in Europe, or really anywhere else, but I would hope some Dutch keep these traditions alive whether for the sake of remembering/preserving tradition itself, or even to antagonize the people most offended by it.

[@lewiscarson3086]

Wow what a small minded, petty thing to say. Your worldview sucks

[@GROZNAYA]

Wow what irony. It’s small minded and petty to suggest ‘some’ portion of a populace to keep and flaunt their traditions in their own homeland in the face of an infringing government, globalist interest groups, and their media apparatus who are actively working to dismantle mentioned traditions because of perceived racisms? Because directly and indirectly forcing an opposition to submit to a new narrative and status quo is high minded and not petty? 😂 Yea, and speaking about worldview just cements what camp you are really in. I’ve been to three continents, and several regions within. I have had enough respect, and common sense to not be just another dumb western backpacker, and pseudo intellectual tourist. 😉

[@rickroersma]

"Donald Duck, Mickey Mouse, Black Pete" I never associated Black Pete to Black PEOPLE growing up, it was and IS a totally seperate (and much loved/ liked) entity, for kids, and for me personally. And so what if some not very creative kid on the schoolyard called a black kid Black Pete? Kids will ALWAYS find something to say about other kids! For Black kids there will probably Always be another brown or black object to use.. For Fat kids, Skinny kids, Kids with Red Hair, Braces, WHATEVER!!! ARE WE GOING TO BAN EVERY OBJECT OR FICTIONAL CHARACTER, KIDS WILL USE WHEN NAME CALLING, TEASING ANOTHER KID? I'm telling you, this oversensitive cancel culture is a backward evolution process, we as a whole society will be sorry for in the long run.

[@Bonitavous]

Black Pete is a slave caricature, so what are you talking about? Calling a slave a helper is so offensive. If we were making holocaust caricatures would it be funny? Hitler's starving Jewish "helper". It's not funny and should not be debated. You should stop it. It is as simple as that. We celebrate Christmas just fine everywhere else in this world without this negative connotation. You sound like a racist.

[@yeetyeet3426]

Stay away from our traditions

[@IssameOz]

No problem you can keep your tradition ..just keep our culture out of it ..

[@yeetyeet3426]

@@IssameOz what culture? There is no black culture, the only people interfering is you 🤣

[@IssameOz]

@@yeetyeet3426 ..am sorry I just can't take you seriously with that name handle ..

[@dangordon2132]

Dutch politician at the end there is correct. It's a failing tradition. So if you like it, get out there and enjoy it now, because in 15-20 years Black Pete won't be there anymore. Sorry, but culture changes over a lifetime. Some people just can't keep up.

[@NoName-oq9bx]

@@yeetyeet3426 every…single…modern…music…genre…comes from us…how is there no black culture?

[@matteoisopi]

Hail Black Pete!