Should the NFL be concerned about their lack of black head coaches? I NFL I SPEAK FOR YOURSELF

[@SpeakOnFS1]

Listen to The Skip Bayless Show podcast: sprtspod.fox/SkipBaylessShowPodcast

[@jer-bear48]

I have incredible amount of respect for both you men. The most important thing both of you said was recognition of the complexity.

[@ykdavid]

No!

[@minusopposite1270]

If I were to remove race from this model.... A black man could... Lol

[@havok5538]

That's a hard PASS 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@lauriagrantiii]

This is easily one of the best back and forth conversations i've ever heard in sports media. Thank you gentlemen for being nuanced, principled, and respectful. I hope everyone realizes that when arguments occur in good faith, we all are better for the exchange. Thank you for intentionally delivering the show in this manner. Sensationalism isn't the only way to deliver ratings.

[@maurice2014]

Acho wasn't nuanced at all. He was surface level until Wiley threw him a curve ball.

[@Mero-001]

@@maurice2014 that maybe true, but even when the curve ball was thrown he chose to be nuanced. He could have chosen not to be. We see it happen all the time. Salute to both of them as well as a salute to you as well

[@LarryAsberryJr]

I agree that was a respectable, enjoyable discussion from both sides. I really love this show because they keep the mind working.

[@eliteteamkiller319]

@Maurice湯 Both points are valid. The sample population is a valid argument because it was made in an apples to apples way, in particular because of the NBA analogy.

[@diranshouse7061]

They are by a landslide the best sports talk show.

[@DJ-ex8qh]

“He got fired already?!” When Acho put the grey chip back in the bowl had me dying 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@50farmers]

I really want a show with Shannon Sharpe and Marcellus Wiley opposite one another.

[@havok5538]

@@50farmers I know what you're thinking.... But somehow I don't think it would mesh like you think.....

[@elgisthomas8791]

@@havok5538 it would be better than that Yes Man Skip Bayless

[@havok5538]

@@elgisthomas8791 No Doubt!! I would definitely watch.... I watch Shannon until Skip takes a breath to speak then I leave

[@yinliu5634]

Wiley is on point. It's not about equality, because nothing in life is equal.

[@funkdocdoppelganger7720]

Of course some Asian is gonna say that...

[@yinliu5634]

@@funkdocdoppelganger7720 what does that mean?

[@matthewmgiesy3425]

Man great conversation between you both. 🙏🏼

[@UnexpectedWonder]

Indeed.

[@Waliocoolioflo]

🙏🏿

[@luckyluis1203]

This league cares about winning not diversity. Get real

[@marcust6479]

Great convo

[@Chartlaub5]

The method of discussion is the important part here. Neither one of them close their mind off as they go through these ideas together. That is how you bridge gaps. Not to point fingers but to go through information together

[@adgee5401]

It’s television handled by producers. Nothing is going to come from this segment but more conversation.

[@C-Note-to6vk]

@@adgee5401 totally agree. The tone of the show is contrived just like with all of them. Having said that they do make good points and talk in a way that a viewer can feel that they really got more information

[@jeremymartin9148]

This entire show could've been devoted to this topic. Great discussion

[@HomerunsamSOSA]

Fellow Jeremy here I agree

[@arizonaFIREent]

Im Mexican and want more Mexican coaches. How many asian coaches are there? And Italian coaches? Middle Eastern? French? German?? Oh yea when Is Puerto Rican history month? Or Scotland coaches???? Not everyone in usa is either white or black yet you don't see the other races crying like females that they aren't included

[@JHockeyFan]

Anyone who isn't Hispanic, black, Asian, or Native is white...

[@funkdocdoppelganger7720]

The whites are descendants of europe.. polish , German, Irish, Italian... it's all Europe... and Ron Rivera is Puerto Rican/ Mexican...

[@jerryneil8558]

I think a coach needs at least 3 years to prove that he can turn a franchise around unless there comes up something that forces the franchise to fire him ie Meyer's actions. The other problem is these Franchise hire retreads that have proven they can't win at another franchise and this goes across the board NFL,MLB and the NBA

[@HomerunsamSOSA]

Especially if they had losing seasons and then u have winning ones

[@jerryneil8558]

@@HomerunsamSOSA I just don't think you can tell by 1 year and if you can then fire the GM too

[@Blackcat0721]

Just ask Flores how that turned out

[@jerryneil8558]

@@Blackcat0721 supposedly that had to do with relationship between GM and Flores which is true both should have been fired if they couldn't settle their dispute

[@spottedlionartorias9899]

@@Blackcat0721 Flores had issues with his players, his gm, his coaches and the owner. Ofcourse he was going to be fired

[@soda8736]

This was best segment ive seen on the subject by far.. Wiley sliced Acho up . .way better than hearing all these other black men cry on TV over last 2 days. It's embarrassing as a black man

[@Knowing341]

Also like fact Wiley mentioned the second chances black coaches received. Vast majority of coaches rarely get second HC jobs

[@NickSibz]

As they said, this is a very complex question and even more complicated answer. I think these two are the only analyst who keep it 100% real and hit every point. Awesome segment.

[@adgee5401]

This situation is neither complex or complicated IF people want to be honest. The problem is as long as someone can find an example that opposes, progress will be a slow crawl.

[@jonathanruiz7877]

@@adgee5401 depends on what you classify as “progress”

[@adgee5401]

@@jonathanruiz7877 Take this segment for example: what was accomplished other than two men sounding eloquent in their takes? Progress is ambiguous because someone will always want more.

[@NickSibz]

@@adgee5401 Totally get your point, I disagree but we can all have different takes so it's all G.

[@ayokunleakachi9823]

It can be made complex but its very simple. Who makes the decisions? White guys. They select people who look like them far more than they select others in: Banking (mortgage and personal loans) Hollywood (casting) Politics (real decision makers) Justice system (obvious) Slavery (historical and modern) SPORTS (especially NFL) What do all of these and many other industries and institutions have in common??? Old white guys make the decisions. Solution is just as simple . Black people, own your leagues, businesses, houses, industries ect....or stop complaining and accept the consequences. "The most committed always win"...THE CODE These old white guys have been more committed to their goals. Congratulate them, learn from them, then out work them. Simple

[@mlucasGrindstone]

While we're at it female head coaches. There should be more Hispanic quarterbacks. Every team should have a Filipino Frontline. Frankly, I just wish people would stop saying stupid stuff

[@tacocatzero3541]

Great conversation! The issue IMO is the NFL/College keeps recycling these same bum head coaches. How are you going to get diversity if the same 7 coaches who were fired end up replacing each other and maybe you get 1 new fresh face. Im all for second chances, but come on now get some fresh faces in the mix.

[@hotpotato122]

I believe Joel Klatt even mentioned this last year on Colin cowherds show. Said something that the bad teams just recycle the same coaching staffs just that the logo’s they wear change from year to year. (Aka good ol boys club/who you know)

[@tacocatzero3541]

@@hotpotato122 I really like Joel Klatt, and appreciate the fact he will call out the league/ NCCA. I felt this CF season he was forewarning the committee of how broken the CF playoff system is and how it’s having a negative impact on recruiting. How it’s hurting CF as a whole, especially the fanbases.

[@willardcormier7727]

Hear, Hear!!!

[@Jrcobi12]

These two hyper-intellectuals are the only ones on TV that can openly talk about this subject and not be called racist. No one else would dare touch this subject!!

[@PlutonicDuck1416]

Yea with all due respect to sharpe, he just jumps on the “it’s racist” bandwagon but doesn’t provide suffice evidence of that. There’s inconsistencies all across as they mentioned. It’s easier to talk about the situation when it’s presented like that. Yes it’s a problem but what do we do about all the variables?

[@charnelveil669]

Black people and POC can not be racist because we didn't create the Social Construct of Racism and White Supremacy.

[@C-Note-to6vk]

Other people have touched this subject

[@jaybretv4346]

Love the conversation. Very underrated show.

[@dwightbeech8190]

This the only one I tune into

[@sbthesage2100]

This topic is actually stupid why are we worried ab race instead of qualification there should obviously be black coaches but we can’t just be like oh there’s not enough of them that’s dumb

[@chucktownboi2488]

@@sbthesage2100 exactly!

[@michaelyip324]

The top show!

[@spottedlionartorias9899]

@@sbthesage2100 unfortunately most PPL in America don't like to see it this way, to them it's about hand-downs, not qualifications

[@jaredled1596]

Why does Acho have to try and find racism in everything. If you have to look through a magnifying glass and dig around searching for hours then there’s probably none. It’s all about winning in the NFL so I can guarantee that owners hire the best man for the job. Why does everyone seem to try to make racism out of nothing nowadays. Wiley is the best. He has a non bias outlook on everything. This world needs more people like him.

[@ccvee7287]

They want to feel special and think being black is some sort of miracle that should wow us all. The fact is all of us are special but not all of us are screaming about it.

[@dredai]

The fact that two strong personalities can have a complex conversation without passing blame or throwing insults in of itself is amazing. Yet to throw in the fact it's two black athletes having the courage to be talking about a racial issue in a billion dollar industry that happens to be a chief supporter of the media platform they work for is phenomenal. We need more content like this on TV as well as in society. Unfortunately because they aren't loud and bombastic and animated they won't feed the American appetite for drama and these type of nuisance conversations will not see the advantages of mainstream success.

[@MrJsfingers]

Hit it on the head with your last thought.

[@praiselujahradio-show]

Yo... Wiley is Whitlock 2.0.. Therefore, I ca t buy what he is selling. What are the odds that Wiley disagrees with every plight and battle of African Americans in sports? He feeding the fire of opposition, there is no real strength in his foundation. As a matter of fact, his perspective when he was a player was give me the money, and it often spills out during his segments. He even flaunts it by mentioning the things that he owns. But this is the same gentleman who disputes players opinions, calling them selfish and greedy.

[@cvrbon6]

Playing in the NFL doesn't make you a coach. Not playing in the NFL doesn't make you not a coach. Stop.

[@drtaek]

Bengals fan here... so happy to win last night, first win in playoffs in 31 yrs... Mike Brown always gets tons of criticism for how he runs.. but 2 things he did that should be respected from this conversation... he kept Marvin for so many years(Black head coach).... he did not fire Zac after 2 miserable years... Zac would have been fired last year or after first year if he was coaching any other team for sure...

[@WilluOrNot]

Well said. Mike Brown could easily be accused of being too loyal to Marvin. A bunch of other teams would have dropped him beforehand. Thanks for this.

[@TheTruthHurtsBIG]

Should the NFL be concerned there are no White cornerbacks in the NFL? Skin color shouldn’t matter it’s about if your better at the job.

[@Benj722]

Lol 😂 I know the Raiders got white CB and S

[@stanlee6829]

But they NOT better

[@dontmindme4197]

But they get fired and rehired black coaches are barely getting hired and barely reh hired

[@KiLlACaMrOn94]

Yes, because this is the same thing…🙄🙄

[@thebenc1537]

We need more chinese middle linebackers.

[@maxamillion2272]

This was a phenomenal discussion! Very intellectually stimulating. I love to see these highly intelligent brothers debate- every show is a lecture series all onto itself

[@kongmeng03]

Marcellus is on point on alot of things. You can't just appease to one and not another. The ratio of black players to coaches is due to black people rather be players than coaches like Marcellus says. You don't have a resume after you retire and while you're playing, this other person who didn't get to be a player, is building his resume for coaching. Marcellus is great at not having a victim mentality on this topic.

[@keithgupton9349]

I'm curious. What's a victim mentality? Because, I'm going to assume that's a label that's always slapped on black people especially when we speak up about potential injustice. Quite frankly, I saw a lot of white men on January 6th claiming to be victims of a rigged system. If you were honest, everyone claims to be a victim when it benefits them not just black people.

[@SmartDave60]

It’s about choices and relationships. Look at Bruce Arians staff. He could easily have a nearly all white coaching staff. Now those African American assistant coaches are being groomed hopefully for an opportunity at head coaching.

[@AveryB.0]

I disagree wholeheartedly with your point here JY. EVERY player that plays college ball hopes to make it to the pros. Most of them don't make it because they weren't good enough. Bill Belichick, Andy Reid, Bruce Arians, Pete Carroll, etc all played football in college. The applicant pool for these NFL jobs is not all of the USA like Marcellus claimed, but instead people who have been around the game a long time and played. Even in college football it is majority black players so whichever way you slice it African Americans are underrepresented in the coaching positions.

[@SmartDave60]

@@AveryB.0 and Wiley knows better that white guys being 30% of the league isn’t an equality issue. He should be ashamed.

[@keithkeel4393]

Calling black people "victims" every time you don't agree with what they say is no different than calling white people "racist every time you don't agree with what they say. It's lame, tired, and dishonest...

[@gagniermedia]

Acho: “Diversity makes us strong”, thinks this statement is smart Also Acho: “70% poc nfl players, 83% black nba players” totally ok with this disparity. Marcellus is a brilliant mind and extremely articulate.

[@eliteteamkiller319]

@Michael Johnson Pretty sure the former directly affects the latter. BECAUSE most NFL players are Black (and by extension, most _FAILED_ NFL players are White), the pool from which coaches are drawn - which is mostly players who weren’t good enough to make it to the NFL - is mostly White. There are other factors, but this one is a major one.

[@Clarkbar79]

@@MichaelJohnson-ny6zs you hire white to balance it out. You want all black players and all black coaches but 90% white audience lol Is that fair? You have to put some white people somewhere when the majority of the money made comes from white people no??

[@josephhornbuckle9456]

These guys should be in Congress or the Senate.... I'd vote for them

[@anthonycinalli690]

Hands down one of the best and most informed discussions I've heard on a program in a long time!

[@masonr5677]

And some still don’t get it 😒

[@shawnclement9242]

@@masonr5677 Not that we don't get it, we just see it in a different light.

[@charnelveil669]

@@shawnclement9242 Many White people can't see their own privilege even when someone White shows them otherwise.

[@shawnclement9242]

@@charnelveil669 SO, are you saying people need to FORCE private companies to hire based on race? Are you saying that if a minority doesn't get a job it is entirely because the person was a minority?

[@charnelveil669]

@@shawnclement9242 If that's what you think.

[@kucutooms8685]

Great dialogue......and analysis.....

[@brunopiglopes2004]

Marcellus nailed. One important thing to mention, its easier to Be a basketball coach than a football coach, thats why there is more former players coaching in The NBA. Football coachs need years of study to became One, its The hardest profession in all sports.

[@geronimopratt7976]

He's wrong because he's diminishing the NBA because of the NFL. That doesn't make it a fact and every NBA player would say the opposite.

[@truuee9016]

It's not easier to be an NBA coach. You're insinuating that black professionals can't do the harder job. The coach of the chargers was coaching highschool a few years ago wasn't he? What years of studying did he put in that a black ex-player and/or NFL coordinator hasn't surpassed significantly??

[@tomstorm7926]

I don’t know if I agree with that. I do agree that football is a far more complex game and is probably harder to coach than basketball. But many of the coaches weren’t even assistant as long as their black counterparts and got the job.

[@brunopiglopes2004]

@@truuee9016 thats not what i said. Its easier and a faster too learn Basketball, you play defense and offense. A football player usually plays One position in One of the 3 part of the game (offense, defense or special teams). To learn all the schemes at both sides of the ball takes time, a lot of time. In basketball the players spend more time with the coachs, less players, the roster hás what,12, 13 players. In The NFL you have 18 players to learn from One of the assistent coachs. See how long it took Bill Walsh to became a head coach (the greatest of all time in my opinion).

[@truuee9016]

@@brunopiglopes2004 when you break it down like that, then it makes sense and I agree with you. Now your previous Statement "you need years of study", is accurate but not applied to many young white coaches like Staley. Imagine firing Lynn who picked Herbert against mainstream advice btw, then when the QB turned out good they fired him and got a new coach (to take credit for his success in my opinion). Then he couldn't even get them to the playoffs because he doesn't know when to not go for it on fourth down. Lynn at least had a rookie. That's Just one example.

[@tenspinya]

This was an entertaining conversation but I wish Wiley went into detail on his "mental attributes" thoughts. I think it really would have took the show to the next level

[@corychin7090]

You want him to say white people are genetically smarter. Sike buddy

[@tenspinya]

@@corychin7090 I wanted him to continue his thought process

[@corychin7090]

Yea I get it, but to me it sounded like he wanted to say black people tend to be more athletic and white ppl tend to be smarter. Which isn't true. There are more black ppl in professional sports because they are more athletic than their white counterparts but in the grand scheme we all have the same abilities. Same for intelligence. Poverty is the biggest factor in realizing intelligence. Poor white people perform the same in school as poor black people

[@sclay757]

@@corychin7090 no I think what he was getting at is for every action there's an equal but opposite reaction or a counter balance. Now you could be right about him but based off hearing him talk many times and his personality I don't think he thinks blacks are mentally inferior to whites. I think the point he's making is that you cannot have your cake and eat it too if you wanna talk equality. We already dominate at the player level, so us dominating at that level pushes a lot of white players out (hence his there's always a winner a loser point). So those white players that are getting beat out by blacks due to whatever reason can only turn to coaching. I think that was his point. Basically more white people wanna be coaches because blacks already dominate at the player level. But I could be wrong.

[@corychin7090]

@@sclay757 I see that, my point is if you look at the lower qualifying levels like high school there are almost 50/50 white and black and it shrinks a little in college but near same disparity of races. Only pros do you see the real difference. Which means white players are getting the opportunity. The difference isn't really the genetics, its the desperation. If you go to the park and you see ppl running cone drills and bleachers its always black kids. They are desperate to make it to the league. Actually if you really want to use genetics argument white ppl benefit from their genetic size difference because whites are overrepresented on the offensive line.

[@SmartDave60]

Decent discussion. I take issue w/ Marcellus Wiley’s point about black coaches getting more second opportunities than white coaches. Most of the black coaches that he named were successful in their first job and not washouts… Tony Dungy - First coach in Bucs history to leave w/ a winning record. Dennis Greene - 97-62 as Vikings head coach. Lovie Smith - Super Bowl appearance and coach of the year winner. Jim Caldwell - Super Bowl appearance. Art Shell - Coach of the year winner

[@bennettstrobel7721]

Not every former player wants to be a coach. What are the stats on former black players that transition to coaching. Wiley and Acho are prime examples. Merit breeds excellence. Shouldnt matter what color you are.

[@soda8736]

That's why I don't get why Acho keep saying 70% like it means something.. most these former players want to be Podcasters now..lol

[@thebenc1537]

Comparing player demographics to coaching demographics is absurd because the vast majority of coaches never played the game.

[@Knowing341]

@@soda8736 We do know that Byron leftwich… Bowles and Leslie Frazier ( part of 86 bears D) all were former players

[@geronimopratt7976]

@@soda8736 that is a factual stat that's why he is using it. You act as if he's making it up.

[@benjaminn7411]

@@thebenc1537 I think you misunderstood his data analysis. He only focused on the pool of coaches that were former players as a microcosm, not all of the coaches. And he was not arguing either that there should be 70% black coaches. The conversation started that if he could randomly select more than one grey chip (represents blk player) in 7 attempts at any given time, then it is improbable that there is only 1 black coach among coaches that were former players.

[@KongBueno]

Can the nfl get Asians and Latino coaches too? It's not just black and white lol

[@soda8736]

Acho thinks everyone in the NFL is black or white, nothing else..

[@funkdocdoppelganger7720]

Ron Rivera is latino.... but he needs to be outta the NFL...LOL

[@WittleJJ]

One of the few talk shows that feels like two best friends having a discussion.

[@cefb8923]

And it's not scripted, or at least it doesn't feel that way.

[@evdombrowski1]

This show just keeps getting better. Keep it up guys.. I feel like I learn some new vocab every time I watch!

[@AwakenedZion]

Great dialog and analysis fellas.

[@charlespinnock5875]

How refreshing it is to listen to quiet and intelligent DISPUTED reasoning than loud UNDISPUTED chatter

[@MeloTheSsj4]

Wiley has always been on the other side of the fence when it comes to these topics

[@realspitter2727]

Fact. That goes into why I think he’s the best at sports talk. I do not like that aspect but he is fearless with his approach

[@AveryB.0]

Wiley probably picked that up from Whitlock lol smh

[@MrHnic95]

Wiley low key tap dances

[@BkidMuzik]

i hear u but i think hes right in a sense most people rather play than b a coach. yes i dont think they are giving the same opportunities but many great former players dont wanna coach. black people having ownership should be the real discussion IMO

[@AveryB.0]

@@BkidMuzik this is true but what all time great white players are coaching? The answer is none. So it doesn't matter if you were an HOF, starter, or bench player, you just aren't getting the same opportunities as a black player.

[@asimoz6600]

Honest as a half white half Pakistani I swear this was one of the best debates I’ve heard and reason for it is the easy way easy answer the more perfered answer was for him to say your right and I agree it’s tragic what’s happening and no one would of blinked an eye at him but I swear this man just just won so much respect in my eyes and to have black leaders like this is a dream who fight for what it is no matter it’s not the easy answer and how he didn’t back down and stood up for what is right was awesome made me want to listen more because wasn’t like 2 black people bashing white people or 2 white people bashing black this is what we need more of in this country and we can get some where no one side wants all the figure pointed at them and justifiably it’s very rarely the case that one side is always 100 percent wrong or the reason

[@jeffalexander195]

The only concern should be qualifications, PERIOD. Why are people looking at superficial things? Skin color? Hair color? Irrelevant. You don’t have to play the game, to know how to coach the game. And your chip analogy is moronic.

[@a.michaelmcmillan8065]

Great presentation Acho!

[@lukekhalid896]

Acho is on his A game today !!

[@dwightbeech8190]

That’s my bro

[@tomstorm7926]

But Wiley still got’em

[@MrPetej00]

A lot of good points made by both, from a new coach stepping into a bad situation to the genetics of players. The league and fans should want equality, but they should also recognize that equality (as some have defined) may not be attained. You cant look at the demographics of the players and expect the head coach demographics to mirror that, because you cant expect that all players want to coach when they retire. Coaching in todays NFL is about long, long, long days or preparation (tape, scheming, teaching and managing a roster of players that have increasingly number of off field issues and distractions). I cant imagine many people look forward to a position like that. SOME of the best coaches and coordinators have been journeymen, lesser knowns or career backups. Why? because their whole playing career has been scouting, breaking down tape, running the scout team and prepping the starters for game day. They are the ones on the sidelines assisting or relaying play calls, keeping the HC aware of situations (down and distance, time, opponent tendencies etc). Being a backup (especially at QB) is literally being in the NFL coaching academy, as a result they are more prepared to make the jump if they choose the coaching route. This is stuff a starter may not experience and thus will need some time to learn prior to or after they have made the jump. Some of course are better than others and you will have your outliers. Peyton Manning could probably be a great HC, but maybe not someone like Dan Marino. Mike Tomlin stepped into a great situation, he joined Pitt two years removed from a superbowl and was able to hit the ground running with a storied well run franchise. If he was dropped into say the Jets, Texans, Lions etc, would he have had the same success knowing he would most likely have been fired after 3 years and not doing much to turn a poor franchise around? This leads me to my next point, owners are far too quick to give up on coaches. Owners are too focused on winning now and not on what it actually takes to win. Building a team via the draft and free agency takes at least 3 years until you expect to see results (maybe longer if you need a QB). You have to give the coach time to establish his culture, the team identity and if he is a new coach, there will be mistakes and things to learn from.

[@cefb8923]

This is 100 percent true about where coaches typically come from. Most of your stars.. never coach. Look at Belichick, think he played? Actually name one big star player who is coaching at anything more than a positions coach? You could probably only name a few that are even positions coach. It makes sense when you think about it, you think Tom Brady will want to coach? These well established players are incredibly wealthy, why would they want to coach? Meanwhile you have a journeyman who sat and studied the game as his primary job who only made maybe a mil, maybe two a year if hes really lucky.. you think he's going to be looking for a job after his six years are up? Of course he is.

[@glenbrown7423]

WILEY KILLING IT WITH LOGIC!😎

[@williamramirez7559]

Meritocracy should be the first box checked. A coach of a leader of young men. Ethnicity shouldn't be a factor.

[@keithkeel4393]

So only one black coach deserves to have and keep his job?

[@jamescarpenter855]

@@keithkeel4393 of that's all that can get the results the team is looking for then yes it is but yea Miami has proven to be a bunch of morons and Flores could go to either Denver Chicago or Minnesota and have a playoff team easily

[@algill5079]

You are absolutely right, but just like outside the NFL in the real work force. Black people don’t even get the chance to show their merits… we can barely get in the door for an interview unless we are undeniable to Acho’s point

[@yzerman123]

I'm tired of race and politics being injected into sports commentary.

[@yungrot7943]

then go to sleep

[@keithkeel4393]

Yeah, let's pretend that race and politics aren't a part of sports...

[@funkdocdoppelganger7720]

Did you get tired of it when nobody were speaking up , or when it were 98 % white ? Probably not... you were ok with politics then weren't ya ...

[@jasonrobbins4001]

I love the conversation I understand how deep this actually is but just plain and simple the two coaches that got fired just did not deserve to get fired whatsoever one of them completely overachieved nobody thought that the Houston was going to have one victory let alone four. And the dolphins coach was the best coach they had in the last 22 years.

[@havok5538]

Very True.... but That's another conversation with different reasons....Starting at the Ownership level.

[@HomerunsamSOSA]

I like to see white folk keep it a bean I agree race ain't an issue w EVERYTHING but is an issue here.

[@havok5538]

@@HomerunsamSOSA Stevie Wonder has a better Chance of being the Dodgeball Champion 🏆 Then you seeing that happen 🎤

[@emballer7344]

Flores deserved to get fired. I’m a Dolphins fan. As a HC u gotta be a leader of men and respect players. Also gotta hire a staff. Flores struggled with both.

[@hoodtraveltv7723]

@@emballer7344 Brian Flores was trying to get Deshaun Watson. Owners didn't want that. Imagine all the other ideas he had they turned down.

[@justinboucher6836]

both very smart anchors who respect each others opinions and articulate them well, best sports talk show and its not close

[@realspitter2727]

Fact

[@C-Note-to6vk]

@@realspitter2727 opinion

[@capitalistwire]

biggest data points: 12% of the population is black 70% of the league is black (some are saying it’s like 56%) NFL has made more black millionaires than any other job in the world. Every industry has disproportional groupings of races and it’s not “racism”. It’s just normal human behavior. Indian dominate the software work. Black pepper dominate the hip hop space. Koreas dominate donut store ownership in the South. Etc etc. Just bc black people don’t dominate or split the number doesn’t mean it’s “racism”. All that to say, I do think that owners favor people who look like them (in the exact same way studies show woman exec’s favor woman). Everything you don’t like isn’t “racism”. Also Acho, you said “diversity brings excellence”. Statistically that’s not true. Example: the league will do just fine with black or white coaches. Also, make sure you guys throw in this data point: the NFL has made more black people millionaires that any other job IN THE ENTIRE WORLD. We got to stop claiming everything is racism just because we don’t like it or don’t understand it.

[@TheTraceySmiley]

Nailed it.

[@shockingdashcamcrashes5271]

Wiley said basically the same thing too. That’s why I love this guy.

[@havok5538]

This was a Tour De Force... The epitome of knowledge and entertainment. Points made without SCREAMING (Skip Bayless, STEPHAN A.) Actual giving food for thought. Criminally underrated and overlooked Gem of a pairing. Football in background but very versatile in Sports Knowledge 👏🏾 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@emaculatej650]

I just hope that 1 day people are judged on ability And potential rather than color on all sides.

[@yungrot7943]

both have valid points but you goofballs in the comments just latched on whatever made you feel better 😂

[@WilluOrNot]

As a black man let me say this: Every black former player does not want to coach. Of those that do, how many are actually good enough to take the top spot. Of those that want to coach and are worthy of the top spot at a time when the top spot is available is a very small window to fit coach X in. Firing a coach after year 1 (unless there is an Urban Meyer type circumstances)is irresponsible regardless of race.

[@mrlogick1098]

Wow they dug deep on this one 🔥

[@BA-cz4is]

Just stated the obvious while tryna be smart ! The truth is they cant live without blacks services cause they are better athlete than other races ! But they dont want us in power positions !

[@justinboucher6836]

@@BA-cz4is nah we just smarter

[@asimoz6600]

BA you needs watch this show again homeboy

[@Key_Mind]

@@BA-cz4is If you say blacks are better athletes then why can't we say whites and everyone else are better coaches/intellectuals?

[@BA-cz4is]

@@Key_Mind its not a say it’s a fact lol ! Blacks are better athletes ! Where was it proven then white are smarter ? You clown

[@iq-ma5574]

Marcellus is having 2 different arguments and trying to make it add up

[@imoses1980]

Exactly

[@dracuna9129]

Your qualification should get you the job not your skin color

[@reggiemelvin5058]

Y'all went in on this one. One of your best convos yet imo. Love you guys' dynamic and diversity of perspectives. More!!!

[@cjfrm3658]

Marcellus don't sit on fence

[@alvin5103]

There's no disconnect except Archulo bias racist opinion. Diversity does not mean productivity or success.. Wiley is King! the only real brother who keeps it 💯 % in all of sports media

[@DAV3RAG3]

The best sports show on tv.

[@dwightbeech8190]

Facts

[@rpatten78]

They broke this issue all the way down... Great job!

[@yonder454]

Lets have an Asian head coach. They are small, they are not build like most nfl player but they do have good knowledge and understanding plus they are pretty smart

[@nighthawk326]

But do they know football and know how to handle players from all different parts of life/culture?

[@robert__2357]

Acho really stunned Wiley with the NBA example. Check mate

[@jwilson1854]

Maybe AB should be next coach

[@jonathanruiz7877]

Lmao shirts vs skins in practice

[@funkdocdoppelganger7720]

Why not ? They hired Urban Meyer, Jay Gruden, Matt Rhule, David Cullen , Ron Rivera, so why would it be so funny if A.B. were HC...

[@GreenFridays]

These two are simply the best. What a powerful conversation.

[@cremoyagard9008]

The Best Conversation I have heard on this topic that I can remember

[@jmohn80808]

This entire conversation could have ended with what was said in the end "we need more Christian McCaffery, and more Mike Tomlin's"

[@michaelmarion7380]

Does this mean the NFL needs to diversify its players to include more Asian and white so it's better as well? When it comes to coaching the best person for the job is getting the job.

[@WilluOrNot]

Talent determines diversity. In both cases.

[@williamparr3787]

They need to send this discussion over to Shannon sharp and skip Baylee’s.I have never heard a race discussion dissected as well as this.Thank you young men.

[@t007kid]

Wiley dominated this debate.

[@aak6937]

You my friend are lost

[@bueno19d42]

Wiley did win

[@geronimopratt7976]

Very much lost. This country has a history of using black people for entertainment. At the early point of history black entertainers weren't paid anything. The public began to like the entertainment of black people over any other demographic. Mainly because they could cheer or boo and throw vile things at them and it not be a problem then. Black people thrive through it all and performed better. Then history began to change. I think most people are mad that history changed. The athletes get paid a lot now. The black people are the top entertainment, but they can't have fair share at ownership.

[@erictorres3049]

This is the stupidest thing ever, black coaches have been hired for years. Teams can hire whoever they want

[@ThePrometheus617]

Can some please get Acho, a Noble Peace Prize in journalism please.........

[@dannys_rockmetal4865]

Great conversation as usual. I must say that Mr. Wiley is hitting on some very good points. I also believe the best person for ANY position shouldn't be about their race, but if they earn it. This is something that will never be perfected as far as how many whites vs blacks in any position available. I believe anyone looking for someone to fill a position, should be colorblind as well as gender blind. But it's ultimately who's the best for it at the end of the day.

[@Jack-yx1wb]

Wiley you are that dude great convo and being honest about the situation

[@westrep]

You have to be white

[@stevennevermind7110]

Content of their character, not the color of their skin. Let the teams pick their own coaches.

[@truuee9016]

Great job guys. A THOROUGH conversation, addressing the complexity of this issue. This is what's missing in our public discussions today, so we end up with halfbaked and incomplete narratives. Everyone grabs unto their "uncooked" narrative and stands stubbornly in their corner leaving the masses dumber and more divided...and w/o solutions. We need more of these thorough conversations, keep up the good work guys.

[@SmartDave60]

Do you think Wiley’s point about equality of white players in the NFL is worth mentioning.

[@masonr5677]

@@SmartDave60 what?!! There what you got out of all that?! Dude have a seat man

[@SmartDave60]

@@masonr5677 I think it was a sophomoric point by him. The goal isn’t equality of outcome it’s equality of opportunity.

[@truuee9016]

@@SmartDave60 There is equality of opportunity for white players. So it wasn't a great point. The white players that are good enough to play are on the field. There are many black coordinators that are good enough to coach that won't get the same opportunity. I appreciate that he mentioned the fact that diversity of coaching applicants is less compared to players because many former players don't want to coach. Although We must acknowledge that When pure objectivity is required such as with signing players there's diversity, BUT when subjectivity is allowed such as with hiring coaches and administrative positions, then biases slip in and diversity suddenly drops off. So there is a problem with corporate culture at the moment...which can be fixed if we become honest with ourselves as a society.

[@o.g.budnlean3873]

Black people yelling racism. White people yelling reverse racism. Chinese people yelling sideways racism. -Chris Rock

[@genarojamesii9253]

Great conversation and exchange, Marcellus exposed the full extent of achos racism. Not once does he mention Latino, Polynesian, Asian, Native American ect

[@bigcohiba298]

Latinos, Polynesians and Asians can speak for themselves. Ain't nobody stopping them. The show is literally called Speak for yourself

[@genarojamesii9253]

@@bigcohiba298 not the point. The minorities I mentioned cannot speak for themselves they aren’t even represented on the show or in the NFL. Acho is a full fledged hypocrite and it’s sad because he is very smart dude and was fun to watch.

[@haveyouhuggedyourreptiletoday]

@@genarojamesii9253 Troy Polamalu was Polynesian. I am sure you remember him famous defensive player for the Stealers, still does head and shoulders commercials. Tony Gonzalez was Hispanic... and more, but the point is they are there just a minority representation of the league.

[@C-Note-to6vk]

A couple of things. The black QB has become more accepted because college offenses have become more accepted. Teams are running RPOs now in the NFL. Who plays in the NFL is determined by performance. There is no system really barring more white kids from playing just like there is no system barring black kids from playing hockey. When it comes to coaching, the question i have is how many black men are in the industry? How many are coordinators? The ratio of players tell me nothing because i understand most of these guys do not go into coaching

[@funkdocdoppelganger7720]

Stupid analysis... more accepted because of college style offenses...LOL 😎 you forgot to mention that the slow , stiff , un-athletic pocket passers are becoming obsolete... it's not the 80s - 90s anymore... And most of the European coaches are just being recycled or their son or close protégé gets the job because of association and being white..

[@brendajoyce1858]

Why should the league be concerned when they been the same good old boy's network since they been around and they ain't missed 1 dolla, the NFL doesn't see blacks as leaders or partners, meaning ownership

[@jaredled1596]

You are what is wrong with this world. You are part of the problem not the solution.

[@michaelcooke8989]

@@jaredled1596 so we're the problem. Ok just shut up and dribble,or run as fast as you can with the pig skin and the world wil be all right.

[@BigZoe99]

This was one of the best segments ever. Then again, I say that every time these 2 go back and forth on some serious issues.

[@balth6991]

"Diversity breeds excellence" Man, really hit that one home for me.

[@TheGreatWesternTrendkill]

is that true?

[@TheGreatWesternTrendkill]

furthermore why is race considered to be the only thing that creates diversity or at the very least it appears to be at forefront of the "diversity" motto libs like to gush about. was/is europe not diverse just because they are caucausians? is japan diverse? or not "diverse"? is it bad if it's indeed not "diverse" in the hyper lib assessment sense of the word?

[@markezov]

Thank for this great nuanced discussion. You guys are the best in the biz.

[@firstlast460]

Wiley is great to listen to, Acho not so much.

[@hardonthots2770]

So refreshing to see two intelligent black men debating and not screaming at each other like two grandma shouting at the fish market

[@jamesfairbanks9798]

Acho, I am a man of color, so I have a question for you: "black" population is only 12-14% of the general population in the USA, so why is it that 70% (your claim) of the players in the NFL are "black"? Explain that discrepancy to me and I will explain to you why there are so few "black" coaches as compared to the "black" players represented in the NFL. Thank you.

[@KiLlACaMrOn94]

LMFAOOO

[@BA-cz4is]

You are not black i know that

[@jamesfairbanks9798]

@@BA-cz4is you are not smart, I know that!

[@SteveSmith-br3vu]

@@BA-cz4is why because he lives in reality and doesn’t bow down to your victim complex agenda? What a self hating group you radical clowns are.

[@geronimopratt7976]

He can't hear you 🤡

[@jr388]

Wiley dropped a gem.

[@mikeo1171]

Acho you the man; great take!

[@BlackNuance]

Wiley argument is weak and almost confusing. This point is pretty simple and he muddy it up with numbers that doesn't matter.

[@maqsudlatif3266]

Acho caught a huge L on this topic. What's up with this victimhood ? He's from Nigeria and talks about racism in USA 🤣

[@zacharyclay6712]

He was born in America and is an American so why wouldn’t he talk about racism in his own county?

[@cspdx11]

@@zacharyclay6712 i bet his Nigerian dad loves America

[@zacharyclay6712]

@@cspdx11 What exactly does that have to do with anything? It’s always interesting that some people think talking about racism is not loving America.

[@MF-Rell]

Wiley there's four positions left that black people aren't prevalent in the NFL. These spots probably will never reach 1% percent. Owner, General Manager, Head coach and Center. In my Keyshawn Johnson voice, "Stop moving the goal post".

[@rwmartinez1262]

It's wild. I'll never understand his logic

[@TheAnthonydaniels]

You left out what Watson wanted as a coach was Eric Bieniemy not David. Also the Texans was doing damage control by hiring David

[@AFLOVEable]

Acho doesn't understand anything about statistics. The relation between players doesn't reflect on the relation between coaches. You have to look at the relation of how many whites went into coaching and how many of blacks, and this through all levels of Football. You will see, the composition of the pool of coaches is NOT equivalent to that of the players pool. If you want to select coaches after the proportion of black to white players, you must force black people going into coaching or completely give up on the principle of competence. You have to make it mandatory, for half the teams to hire black without regard of ability.

[@todd77777772000]

IDk why but when he poured the chip into a bowl i wanted him to do a magic trick.

[@NuffxSaid]

No. Best man for the job. Leave race in the rear view. So by your logic, there should be more white, Hispanic and Asian players. So black players should be pushed aside for that. This is where Acho and I part ways. He's woke, but he's careful about it on the show.

[@garycollier6950]

Hispanic is a ethnic term and can be any race. Victor Cruz of the New York Giants was Hispanic and he was of black African ancestry.

[@NuffxSaid]

@@garycollier6950 take the wokeness across the street. Willing to bet you use "LatinX" and I'm willing to bet you're white. Goof.

[@garycollier6950]

@@NuffxSaid I am black and I do not use the terms Latino or Hispanic I just say Mexican.

[@sentz1239]

I love how the argument always likes to gloss over the 70% + of players are black only to complain about the issue when it comes to coaches. You lost me at that point.

[@rmm3803]

Oh grow up. The issue is that there are black coaches that can do just as good a job as white coaches. On the field it's a joke to assume that it's an injustice to have more black players, it's all about merit. Our ancestors were bred to be the biggest, strongest and most durable. You think it's a coincidence we dominate the vast majority of physical sports?? Get out of here with that BS. Furthermore, black players are 56%, the other 14% players of color.

[@mitchelll3879]

@@rmm3803 if they can do as good as white coaches they would and should be hired..you have nothing to back up ur conclusion..maybe Eric Bienemy doesn't have good interviews, maybe he is uncomfortable with the media..he has baggage from years ago if I recall..Brian Flores and Jerod Mayo are head coaches no question..David Culley is a career assistant..these franchises are billion dollars in value..if I owned one the last thing as a business person I would do is hire an unqualified person who could set back my franchise and business worth substantially due to the fact he is unqualified and perhaps never will be.. people act like they're entitled.. they're not..but to so many it's always about race.. sickens me

[@tyrannosaurus696]

Marcellus literally covered that exact point 🤦‍♂

[@bigcohiba298]

@@rmm3803 exactly. How is it alright to anyone that as at today we have just 1 black HC in the NFL. Who happens to be the only coach with 15 non losing seasons. That's how good you have to be to keep your job .

[@jamescarpenter855]

@@bigcohiba298 yea you have to win to keep your job crazy look at all the white coaches fired for losing records also it's a crazy concept but you don't improve or make I to the playoffs bye bye after just 1 or 2 maybe 3 years best

[@jmoney3669]

Speaking of being undeniable this was about an Ivy League level of debate which was very impressive for a sports show. Excellent job gentleman.

[@r.nadeau3893]

Point blank. Players don’t make good coaches it’s well documented. It ain’t a black and white thing bud

[@arizonaFIREent]

As far as the nba most of the best coaches were role players not stars

[@Jozzy30ful]

@@arizonaFIREent this is football it’s a whole different animal let’s be honest

[@kennethratcil5225]

I have a dream as an American that someday I will have the privilege of witnessing a presidential debate that is carried out in the same logical and respectful manner that this back-and-forth conversation was carried out with before I die. Bravo gentleman, you leave much to think about!

[@earlosandwich7433]

Marcellus is seeing two sides of this, whereas Acho seems to be on the woke side. He seems to believe that since 70% of the league is Black, therefore 70% of the coaches should be, regardless of merit.

[@MrHnic95]

Woke is speaking up why they hate to see blacks in leadership positions..

[@yinliu5634]

Coaching in the NBA is completely different from coaching in the NFL.

[@808T]

The league should be concerned about the lack of "WHITE" corners, total imbalance.

[@Thebrothaisback]

Deflection from reality

[@geronimopratt7976]

They can swap out to have black coaches

[@Topdog87]

Only the best make the cut

[@louismontoya7437]

@@Topdog87 Totally agree. Just like coaches.

[@bcamm3100]

@@louismontoya7437 can't compare the two situations. When there is an all blk ran organization to discriminate against a white CB lemme know...