Should the Raven Queen Punish the Bell's Hells?

[@Ren_Ca]

Their actions favored the Raven Queen's goals, acquiring more information about Ludinus' plan. After all, she is okay with Laudina being around in these "strange times". I think she will be displeased, but not completely pissed off. Edit: Grammar

[@ZodiacBandit]

@@Ren_Ca i agree in previous campaigns maybe a punishment would be coming but this one is different for sure

[@shadowhell8378]

I think the Raven Queen is going to be pissed but not going to punish anyone because they did get info even if it wasn't the info the Hells would have liked. But for fun and thinking of punishments, how about until the raven queen wants Fearne feels the pain of all the people she has had a hand in hurting that wasn't warranted. So it's more of a roll play punishment than a game play one, and she would see and feel the consequences of her actions like the guilt of the elephant guy from the first episode for losing the all hammer symbol that Fearne stole.

[@joeblow7735]

Is it the 'natrual order' though? The way CR is turning out and how they 'feel' about the gods is more of they are just entities that CAN die. Their true purpose is only to create life/have devotees and give them power and love them. So imo, Raven Queen just like all the other gods and they don't care about 1 person or whatever. I think if there is ANY beef it would be with Nana, but think about this. Raven never stopped Nana before. Nana has a gallery of these 'people' so adding 1 more to it isn't Bell's fault. If anything she would be happy that they were able to use their ingenuity and gather information to overall stop the god eater. I have a thought, obviously this campaign is wrapping up. So all these gods are being spoken to so they can get 'special' weapons/items to assist them to wrap it up. Love these videos because you give us a chance to hash it all out and give great opinions. Thanks man!

[@8Smoker8]

It's entirely their fault actually. Well, say 99%. They made the call.

[@michellemahar9030]

Nana is a fate weaver. This is something she has done before. I don't think she is going to hold it against Bell's Hells, especially when they are trying to find information to help save the gods.

[@marty2129]

I don't think Raven Queen will be pissed (if she was, she would already be pissed at Laudna's existence and actions which I don't believe she is), but I think she will try to claim a new "temporary" champion in Laudna (and send a giant middle-finger to Vecna/the Whispered One and various other rogue necromancers in the process) and she will became a perfect instrument for Matt to present gods' point of view in a more "human" way (considering that Matron was once a mortal and Exandria is the only home she had known)...

[@ZodiacBandit]

@@marty2129 I like this I like this a lot

[@marty2129]

@@ZodiacBandit Damn, now I got another idea that doesn't fully make sense in this case but it may make sense in other cases... What if Laudna, someone who died and thus in a way knows death, someone who found strength to defeat those who defy death, is not being offered the place of champion? What if she is being led on a path that would see her become new Matron of Ravens? What if the gods' plan isn't a new calamity against Predathos and Ludinus, but finding worthy replacements for themselves that would allow them to leave? And who would be more worthy than the ones who stop the God-Eater? I admit it doesn't make sense with the Raven Queen considering she wasn't "born a god", but it could explain Arch Heart and others... but what the process needs all gods and the entire pantheon to be replaced? Maybe with a primordial and/or Luxon twist?

[@ZodiacBandit]

@@marty2129 I’ve had thoughts of maybe the entirety of the bells hells becoming gods honestly I think the idea is something that could connect back to early parts of the campaign of being connected to higher powers

[@8Smoker8]

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say yes as pretty much every god should punish them xD Now WILL they get punished in any way by anyone? Nah.

[@christopheroleary1452]

Morri asked for Fearne's consent to do it, but i think it's worth bearing in mind that Morri doing this kind of thing is very much her will/MO. Zathuda has been a long term adversary of hers, and she was quite keen to string him up. There is some hinting of a 'special relationship' between Morri and the Raven Queen, because they are both fate stitchers, artisans working the same craft. One as an archfey/hag and the other as a Goddess. So whilst it's good to recognise the agency of BH and the consequences of their decisions, I imagine that the Raven Queen will consider it part and parcel of Morri's nature/Fey BS.

[@angelagranger760]

I'm not sure fey creatures would fall under the Raven Queen's purview as they aren't mortal and they reincarnate but since reincarnation is their afterlife and she handles shuffling off souls to their respective afterlife, she still might see denying Zathuda's reincarnation as a twofold affront to both the cyclic nature of death and cheating fate. But she's also a Lawful Neutral deity, she doesn't personally go off on psychotically irrational murder sprees, striking down all intelligent undead, or calls a jihad on every a-hole that resurrects a dead person or reanimates a graveyard of corpses. If that were the case, a hit should have been called on Ludinus long ago for creating and using that harness allowing him to siphon others' life force to extend his own in the first place. But, BECAUSE she is a Lawful Neutral deity, I'm not inclined to think she's going to let Zathuda's soul defilement go unchecked either as it undermines her divine role as being suitable to the role of one who shepherds souls through their afterlife. The very least I would expect her to do would be to tell them to release him, or prioritize Vax's rescue.

[@ZodiacBandit]

@@angelagranger760 yea I’m learning a lot about the fey today honestly I do think the reincarnation part of their cycle which includes death might just fall under her so who knows for sure maybe that’s a campaign wrap up question

[@peter_schomus]

I think they are waiting until the morning so that Brais can give inspiration to Fearn. I think people have a ton of spell slots used up. So they are waiting until the next day to do the glumglot blood ritual. How the fuck could anyone not try to have a dragon??? A fey dragon too!

[@ZodiacBandit]

@@peter_schomus based on what she said in the episode she’ll be letting him go but damn it I wanna see fey dragon master fearne so badly

[@peter_schomus]

@ZodiacBandit yeah but I thought that was just role playing to have an excuse to wait till morning. But maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see.

[@ZodiacBandit]

@@peter_schomus well I hope you’re right I wanna see it too

[@soldier660]

She should be pissed at Nana, she have being doing this for a untold amount of time, but Nana said her house is Her Realm she can do anything she want there looks like.

[@ZodiacBandit]

@@soldier660 I wish we could get more information on nana maybe once this campaign ends Matt or Ashley will give more especially if this setting comes to an end there would be no reason to hold any back after that

[@soldier660]

@@ZodiacBandit You think they gonna lose ? or any team will lose ?

[@ZodiacBandit]

@@soldier660 well no but if Matt just chooses to go full bore and just says their done with that world outside of one shots then why not share with us?

[@soldier660]

@@ZodiacBandit Definitely he will do that answer questions things after the campaing end so you will get you wish,

[@adambaldinger4507]

Yes punish them all; make them all revenant why? Bc yolo. And raven queen gives no fs. She and asomodues will be left standing

[@BluestoneGargoyle]

Nah, Fae are different. They don't have souls like mortals do; their life force reforms into a new body without any deity's involvement.

[@ZodiacBandit]

@@BluestoneGargoyle even so not letting that happen could still be seen in a bad light I said the cycle of death but it’s more like a cycle of life that was messed with he should’ve become something else and not that face art he became interesting tho someone did ask earlier what happens to them when they die as they died in the realm of a good already

[@igor4e]

I mean Nanna Mori was rhe one who would do it. And im not sure the god of death would be vengful tbh

[@karlstoker04]

Do fey even have an afterlife? In Exandria when people die then move to a realm with a God which their ideology aligns with - e.g. fey realm. I don't know how pissed the Raven Queen can be over an individual who at best would reincarnate in the fey realm or at worst just stop existing. It would be nice to see consequences or challenges for them since the fight was underwhelming in challenge - they are level 14 and we are leading up to a big end game of 2 level 20 parties and a 14+ party deciding the fate of Exandria. We do need more stakes at present and practice to have the plot grip the audience leading into the final.

[@ZodiacBandit]

@@karlstoker04 that’s an interesting point about where they go maybe that question will be answered when they meet her maybe this conversation leads to that question

[@ZodiacBandit]

@@karlstoker04 and I think challenges to earn their reward would be a fun and different way of going about it

[@karlstoker04]

@@ZodiacBandit I think challenge to both reward the players (new vestiges or boons) and to avoid consequences (vanguard reinforcements or archeart turncoats). The more challenging the episodes to come the better, this is high level play with world changing stakes at play. I mean Gloam Gut dealing 30 fire with a breath weapon on a fail is pitiful, my best guess is Matt new they might tame it. But it should have been more interesting to fight a adult/ancient sized dragon, a archfey, and a simulacrum of the oldest wizard in Exandria. He could have given Gloam Gut fearie fire (giving advantage on those who fail the save), of just rip off Fizbans gem dragon with abilities. Apart from its chameleon appearance and growing and shrinking size it is a yound red dragon - young reds deal more damage of a breath weapon but less on a claw attack. A harder fight + bigger reward or greater consequence would make the fight memorable.

[@Ren_Ca]

@@karlstoker04 according to planescape (the DND book describing the realms) usually Coralleon (The forgotten realms equivalent of the Archheart) would be associated with the realm of Arborea (a chaotic good plane, contrary to the lawful evil of the Hells). Evidently, the forgotten realms lore is not the exact same as the one in critical role, but considering that the Hells, Elysium, the Abyss and Limbo (all planescape outer planes) do exist in critical role, it would not be a stretch to assume that it also exists in critical role.

[@Ren_Ca]

@@karlstoker04 to be fair, there was a possibility that the party would have faced Gloam gut way before, at the assault to the Fey key. Perhaps Matt designed the encounter back then, and decided that It would be logical for the party to have surpassed the power of a young fey dragon.