Should We Be Spiritual or Religious?

The conversation “Should We Be Spiritual or Religious?” from Courageous Conversations 2022.
Panelists: Andrew Wilkes, Dr. Brianna Parker, BJ Thompson, and Elizabeth Woodson
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[@Jude3Project]

Join us for Courageous Conversations 2023 in Washington, DC, from August 31st - September 2nd as we move from Deconstruction to Reconstruction. Register today at www.courageousconvos.org/ Get 25% off of registration using promo code: FAITH25

[@kmorris4776]

I would like to join and be a part of this movement . Is there of a house of worship in NJ that embraces the faith and belief that Jude 3 project promotes?

[@jeromemilton]

I'm spiritual but not religious I have respect for Islam and how it developed me as an adult & pray like a Muslim,I chat like a Buddhist and respect my formative years in the A.M.E ⛪️ church and developed an appreciation for Africa spirituality and how we have used it to free our selves historically in Africa, Haiti and American....One in and of its self doesn't satisfy me but all together are very fulfilling .❤😊❤!

[@kimseals3458]

Are we afraid to mention Jesus? Are that we are followers of The Way? That the difference in all religion and all this spirituality is all about who Jesus is and what he did so that we could have peace with God!!! Finally the moderator spoke the TRUTH!!!! Thank you Sir!

[@AHSongbird27]

What is the time where the moderator mentions Jesus. I may have missed it. I’m at 58:00 mins

[@bashirbabatunde7559]

No jesus here❤

[@johnjean-baptiste7325]

@@AHSongbird27 did you find it? Also why do you think spiritual ppl are afraid to mention Jesus

[@landonprice5656]

​@@johnjean-baptiste7325 Redirecting or pastor dowell youtube.

Because we don’t need Jesus to be a righteous person it’s already built in us

[@ginab.4605]

We should always aim to be spiritual because God is a spirit. Those that worship him must worship him in spirit and truth -John 4:24. Those who are religious are simply “fans” of God! God doesn’t need fans, he needs true believers!

[@frederickweeksjr.1189]

NOT spiritual but SPIRIT FILLED.

[@whatshatnin4572]

@@frederickweeksjr.1189We were spirit filled before the Europeans gave us Christianity.

[@frederickweeksjr.1189]

@@whatshatnin4572 your point? By the way, what makes you think that the European people gave us ANYTHING?

[@whatshatnin4572]

@@frederickweeksjr.1189 My point is that we have been a spiritual people before the slave master gave us the bible. History tells me that European slave masters introduced most of us to Christianity through slavery. History tells me that we are English speaking Christians because our slave master was an English speaking Christians. These Brothas down here in Puerto Rico and DR are mostly Spanish Speaking Catholics because their slave master was a Spanish speaking Catholic. You cant find any West African Christian Churches and bibles before the slave master introduced Christianity to our ancestors. Cmon Now. This is BASIC history. You should already have known this

[@frederickweeksjr.1189]

@@whatshatnin4572 you don't realize that WE ARE THE HEBREWS.......so your comment is null and void.

[@farrisguinn8744]

Labels don't always explain what we mean...religion is the cultural,ethnic, and societal belief systems about God...religion is man's attempt to relate to God in a practical sense...spiritual is the innate...inspirational...intentional relationship with God which we experience through our intuitive awareness...the reason we know that love exist...

[@AHSongbird27]

And being led by the Holy Spirit who Jesus said he was leaving and interceded for all believers in John 17

[@maryjustice5529]

BJ Thompson, really discovered that when love doesn't cover everything we do, the rest is useless. I can see his pain as he is trying convey that religion or spirituality is useless or pointless or harmful when it does not operate under love. Most of it is basically ignorance or hypocrisy. So good job, it was a join listening to you speak Sir.🙏

[@kingofkings7164]

I would say If everyone got stronger spiritually...You would have better people walking the earth. The reason I say that is because many religions already exist.. none of them are fixing the world, But if everyone with or without a religion worked on having a better spirit, threw spiritual exercises and spiritual healing because people have damaged souls.

[@cmack5713]

Very inspiring love it!!

[@ucheodozor4147]

Talking about "toxicity", the sad truth is that human nature is the same most everywhere you go. Anywhere else you get after leaving your current community, you're going to be dealing with human beings still, and not angels. So, you must arrive at that point where you are fully mature adult, able to focus on God and the things that actually matter, rather than on other human individuals and what they are or are not doing.

[@AHSongbird27]

I watched a video and it was discussing cessationist versus continuation. What are the real issues between both and is it biblically correct?

[@tfmtrueformmotivations6463]

concerning the topic of African spirituality and similarities mentioned around 54:20). Biblical practices and tradition did not fall out of the sky, they came from cultures (did not steal but "adopted" or directed what was already the culture they were from toward an understanding of this relationship with Jesus and the truth with Him and it (Christianity). So when Traditional and Ancient Christianity missioned into nations like Ethiopia, Egypt, Rome, etc... cultures that were already existing the people in those locals who embraced the message of Christ merely connected it with ideas that were already floating around in their cultures that they were living. So this is why you see similarities in many of the traditions, but similarity is NOT the same as appropriation (because it was the culture they came from (that was expressing the truth of Christ) not merely the cultures they took on), so they did not "steal" anything.

[@theghostofumarskoolishere.4632]

Ancient Egyptian didn’t follow Christianity stop making stuff up. Also neither did Ethiopians they had their own spiritual practices stop and yes they did steal and appropriate from African spirituality. Truth hurts. Those stories are literally taken from other African practices.

[@tfmtrueformmotivations6463]

Obviously you didn’t read my post and you’re clearly looking for a fight. Because I clearly said the cultures i.e. Egypt and Ethiopia already had their spiritual traditions, and that when Christianity came to those lands the local people that accepted it, connected the Christian ideas with things from their culture that they were already familiar with. It is similar to how things move from culture to culture and adopted by locals … e.g. hip hop and hip hop culture. On the east coast it was one style and manifestation, but when it went west coast it kept the fundamentals but utilized the culture that was in the west, i.e. made it their own, that is the nature of culture adaptations. There is not one primary evidence to suggest “STEALING” anything, people need to stop with the propaganda… truth never hurts except for those who can’t swallow it. The reality is, people don’t want to admit they didn’t understand culture exchange and adaptations. It happens all the time… we are humans and we adapt each other’s ways when intermingled long enough. You can call it “stealing” but that’s not what any of them called it on either side. Check history not his/her (your) story.

[@whatshatnin4572]

We are a spiritual people with a spiritual nature who have been giving religion. When the slave master gave us religion there was no way for him to keep us from putting some of our natural spirituality in it. But we become more spiritual with less religion.

[@lark8356]

Grace and Peace to you. Would you like to be included in our Theology Group chat on a different platform for further discussion? The group an assortment of people with various theological beliefs and backgrounds. What we all have in common is a desire to discuss the bible, religion and Christianity. It's a good opportunity to witness to non-believers and fellowship with believers.

[@whatshatnin4572]

@@lark8356 always open for RESPECTFUL dialogue. I'm open for it

[@philw9787]

Nothing wrong w religion

[@whatshatnin4572]

@@philw9787I agree. There is nothing wrong with religion. However, we should be able to proper classify things.

[@jjj0026]

I agree with that one guy about Africa. Churches should really invest in offering annual trips to different countries in Africa ( especially the youth). That’s one of reasons African Spirituality and Hebrew Israelite is growing. There is a longing to be more connected in our roots/history a lot more now.

[@J_a_s_o_n]

Hopefully you are not talking about the "Hebrew Israelite cult".

[@philw9787]

Worshipping ancestors is idol worship and a sin.

[@theghostofumarskoolishere.4632]

The Hebrew isrealite is none sense

[@AcousticUplift]

@@philw9787 Knowledge and appreciation of your history is not the same as ancestor worship. Please be mindful not to conflate the two as this is to allow a colonised interpretation of Afrodescendants' forms of Christian worship.

[@J_a_s_o_n]

2 Corinthians 3:6 NKJV - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

[@royalchild100]

Religion is man's attempt to reach God and Christianity is God's attempt to reach man. Greg Laurie

[@plymakkayestudio1827]

because ONLY through Christianity that God can reach men, right?? Guess all the other religions that preach love and make better human beings are useless or NOT GOD DRIVEN?? Thats my problem with Christianity..thinking thats the only RIGHT religion SMH!! no wonder why it is a white man religion mirroring the same traits with them thinking they are the ONLY race that matters SMH!!

[@sackclothanavah6967]

Only Christianity?

[@theghostofumarskoolishere.4632]

No it’s not Christianity is degenerate

[@tracysimon7972]

But isn't Christianity a religion?

[@theghostofumarskoolishere.4632]

@@tracysimon7972 yes

[@Tk1NE]

Faithful: Better than Both

[@loverequiresdiscipline]

At 34:30 a great point is made. Why aren't pastors challenged to lead while continuing to work a regular job helping to show thyself approved to receive a salary? How many would sign up for such charity? If leaders in the church would meet such challenge, the church would be a bit more weed-free - yielding more fruit - I think. However, the panelist (woman with a WIFE) pushed back, admitting that she was hungry and needed to pay bills, etc. after seminary school. This is not why we get into ministry, brothers and sisters, any kind of ministry. This is a huge part of the problem in the church. Many leaders in the church are not willing, humble, nor contrite - merely self-entitled! And how does this exemplify one who follows Christ? It doesn't.

[@J_a_s_o_n]

It really depends. Some pastors are called to be full time in ministry. The proof that one is called by God to be in full time ministry is living in FAITH that the God who called you as per Ephesians chapter 4:11 will provide your needs. There is no way God can call you to be a full time pastor and not provide. The adoption of worldly methods of salaries is not from God.

[@vizzyphd]

That's Rasool Berry! :D

[@Duane-tl2zc]

Did she say something like "God appoints individuals"? No, individuals put themselves in those positions under the pretense that God appointed them. There is a old saying "God has no religion" only humans do.

[@AHSongbird27]

I’d never heard of the quote before and it was well received. Thank you for sharing.

[@tracysimon7972]

I thought the same when the first lady said that.

[@Duane-tl2zc]

@@AHSongbird27 the quote is actually from Mahatman Ghandi.

[@jamesward4617]

Religion was made by man, that's why it's over five hundred different religion. Spirituality comes from within💯

[@wm8673]

Say That

[@philw9787]

James 1:25-27 There is a good religion too

[@jamesward4617]

@@philw9787 that shit was written by man

[@melodyholt500]

​@@jamesward4617inspired by God

[@whatshatnin4572]

​@@philw9787Buddhism is pretty good

[@yahmohyasharal5456]

While acknowledging the complexities of the topic, considerable evidences suggest that religion is a manmade system. The evolution of religious tenets over time, seemingly to adapt to changing social contexts one can conclude that religion, in its various forms, is more likely a construct of humanity rather than divine order. We are not called to obey systems, we are called to a relationship with God.

[@oldschool5]

How do we get to god without man introducing us to god through religion?

[@yahmohyasharal5456]

@oldschool5 let's examine the word: Rom 10:14 RNKJV How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? To believe and know God is never prescribed by a system (religion). It comes through the word and sound biblical teaching. So many people are caught up in systems about God, and they never really establish a relationship with God.

[@harivorifaraitawandamutema6010]

So are you saying prior to the emergence of religion, nobody knew God? And that's millions of people over thousands of years b4 the emergence of the first form of religion.

[@yahmohyasharal5456]

I don't know how you found that question in anything I said, but I will answer you. You obviously already know that people knew God before organized religion. Man is quite capable of knowing God from the scripture alone, absent some formal system of instruction. Remember that God is a spirit. Those who worship him must do so in spirit and in truth. NOT IN Religion! Jesus said I will send you a Holy Spirit, NOT A Religion system. 1Jn 2:27 RNKJV But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

[@oldschool5]

@@yahmohyasharal5456 There is no evidence of man knowing bible god before he was introduced to bible go by man. There are ton this day ZILLIONS of humans on this planet that never seen a bible and know NOTHING about bible god. Bible god will never tell these folks about the 10 commandments. Man will have to do that. Bible god will never tell these folks about the blood of Jesus. Man will have to do that. And if its Allah or Odin its still gone take man to make these deities known to other men. All manmade things rely on man to introduce them to other men.

[@harivorifaraitawandamutema6010]

I did not hear an understanding of what & who Man is and what & who God is, an acknowledgement that Man is both a physical being and a spiritual being occupying the physical being until separated at death. The true meaning of spirituality is basically communication between the spiritual being and spiritual realm God & etc... Just that!

[@abotgotit]

I would love to know your thoughts about minister louis farrakhan. Is he from God? He has so much influence over people of color. Christian influencers and leaders seem to shy away from taking about him and his group. If Christian leaders stay away from saying anything then it makes most people believe that he’s right in calling himself the Jesus of today. Please share your insight on this if you truly want to help save souls!!!

[@philw9787]

His belief system is different. Kinda interesting he mentions Jesus quite often now. Our job not focus on him but spread the gospel

[@jeromemilton]

I love Minister Farrakhan ❤️ but(there is always a BUT) he had our ear during the MillionMan March but dropped the ball with his follow up Millions More Movement it showed a lack of leadership, direction and influence...When I listen to him now gets too religious comparing himself to Jesus that stuff is weak,lot them long time riders with him are broke and contributed to the worship of personality.

[@cynthiajohnson1877]

why is it you never invite LBGTQI+ religious leaders to speak on your panel?

[@siriuslyspeaking9720]

How about keeping it simple and asking, can we just do the right thing? This question is a philosophical question that has no answer. If God is one and so simple, why all the disagreements and differences among people who believe the same religion? Believers can't rely only on faith. Belief alone does allow them the answer to how to convince others to believe as they do. A so they use the secular tool of reasoning, which by nature of the two is contradictory. In doing this they made a bad situation worse. Their belief is too contradictory to get everyone just among those who believe in God or spirits to follow them. They may do better if they drop what they know doesn't make sense and rely on the example of their lives as proof of the power of their belief. A God can never be a sacrifice. Where is the loss in a God being killed and then resurrected? What is worthy of experiencing pain and suffering other than a God? Any entity that is to be an example to another would have to be of the same nature. If Christ ever really lived, and he were God, human beings would have to be God also, for him to be an example to us. Why are animals and the creatures of the world subjected to pain and suffering? What wrong did they commit? Can we just strive to do what is right and fair in this life and let the afterlife take care of itself? How can people be more merciful than God. Some people are against capital punishment, even for the most heinous of crimes. How can God be any less merciful? Did anyone have a say in whether they wanted to be put to this supposed text?

[@justinriley6120]

Spirituality could be different to every single person with know rules or laws that they follow. Religion does have a foundation of that although religion has been changed over the centuries. Which is right, I don’t know because most people don’t have the knowledge to make a clear choice.

[@J_a_s_o_n]

2 Corinthians 3:6 NKJV - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

[@justinriley6120]

@@J_a_s_o_n I’ve learn taking parts of verses from the Bible is like hearing a quote that is inspirational but doesn’t tell the whole story.

[@johnjean-baptiste7325]

@@J_a_s_o_n Deep.

[@3-dmanhood974]

If I’m a black person listening to this madness, I would be a mad scientist

[@Jimmy06blue]

I prefer spirituality over religion

[@scram825]

We hear or read “the spirit of God”, the “Holy Spirit” and not “the spirit of religion etc……

[@whatshatnin4572]

But as long as man is speaking/writing on behalf of a god you will have religion. Religion is when man introduces you to a god and speaks/writes on behalf of said deity.. When you have to go through man to be familiar with a god, you are dealing with religion/mythology.

[@crimewithwine]

You might as well if changed the title to a “discussion on Black Lives Matter and America”

[@jameswarren180]

John 1 1-4 Man has no say so in God Yeshua Church no say so. So what ever Yeshua say is the only thing that matters and nothing else.

[@frederickweeksjr.1189]

This is the most DISRESPECTFUL CONVERSATION PANEL I'VE EVER HEARD. THEY'RE TALKED AND NOT SAYING ANYTHING. JUST AN OBSERVATION.

[@crimewithwine]

Why can’t black Americans talk about anything without mentioned George Floyd and Trump?

[@ucheodozor4147]

I'm sorry, but "Spirituality without religion" is an atheistic concept. There's nothing wrong about being religious, unless by "religion" you specifically mean "Pharisaicalism", legalism and extremism that are antagonistic to human wellbeing.😅

[@devanslive007]

💯 Religion gets a bad wrap because of how it is practiced. James gives us what PURE RELIGION looks like.

[@whatshatnin4572]

Religion is when man is speaking and or writing in behalf of a god. When you serve a god that was introduced to you by man you are doing with religion.

[@plymakkayestudio1827]

​@@whatshatnin4572well said brother

[@romainecrawford2720]

💯 this is it! Well said

[@theghostofumarskoolishere.4632]

@@devanslive007no he didn’t

[@jameswarren180]

I am lost in conversation it’s like listening to Jude 3 and there’s know one who knows Yeshua. Christian is not of God Yeshua so what is a Christian, God Jesus Yeshua do not know what Christian is.

[@mariebright6985]

Shalom beautiful people and many blessings to you all and to your beautiful families (personal/ministries). I enjoyed this intimate discussion. There is alot of depth resting in everyone's perspectives. I agree that we are created to align ourselves with the spiritual nature. A nature that supports religion does not carry enough substance, especially if it is not a religion that is pure. Because a religion that is pure will align with the same realm that The Most High God resides in. He is Spirit and we cannot worship our Creator from a posture that promotes a religious nature. A religious nature cannot take a person into a real experience with intimacy with The Most High God. We were designed for intimate spiritual intercourse, which requires a connection that connects God to man. A religious nature cannot create that kind of connection. God is a very intimate Being. When He engages with the internal make up of man, He does so from a place of intimacy. It is One on one interaction between God and man. This kind of experience ends up in the actual realm where man was designed to express The Most High's life and image, which is the realm of The Spirit. We were created to express worship that is pure and holy. And this has to be done from a posture that supports the spirit man and the spirit world. God Bless you and Shalom

[@anexpierre9127]

the bible is God way to reach out to men,however religion is the contrary, or the opposite. religion is division, relationship with God in Jesus is communion,unity etc.

[@blessedtobeablessing.alway202]

Why do the have to be” black Hebrew Israelite “ why can’t they just be hebrews?

[@lark8356]

Grace and Peace to you. Would you like to be included in our Theology Group chat on a different platform for further discussion? The group an assortment of people with various theological beliefs and backgrounds. What we all have in common is a desire to discuss the bible, religion and Christianity. It's a good opportunity to witness to non-believers and fellowship with believers.

[@blessedtobeablessing.alway202]

@@lark8356 I am not a big talker. But thanks I have my questions though

[@lark8356]

@@blessedtobeablessing.alway202 You're welcome. I understand.

[@whatshatnin4572]

Because Black Folk hate that they got their god from slave masters. So instead of tryin to understand mythology they rather paint what was given to them black.

[@wfs4227]

Because it's the key indicator to determine those who truly worship God in SPIRIT and in TRUTH. One of the easiest ways to know if someone is out of alignment with the God they claim to know is listen to what they ascribe to God. " Black... anything to do with what is required for MEN to accept Him as God in THEIR eyes. If He can't be black then to so many, He's not God but they fail to realize He's a SPIRIT. HE himself never mentions his features to worship. Self ordained Black Hebrews Israelites are inwardly looking for a place to belong and make sense of the issues in the earth by making God to LOOK like them so they can feel more convinced that God IS for them. God is not a color but a spirit but no matter what their whole reason for being on them street corners is, they're honestly not even convinced about it themselves. They're seeking to establish a righteousness of their own ( ROMANS 10:3), not submitting to the righteousness of God. Their longing to belong but going about it the wrong way.

[@philw9787]

There is nothing wrong w hv religion. All of us hv religion, if all serve God. Religion is a belief in or worship a supreme being (power). James 1:26-27 stop trying make religion a bad word.

[@whatshatnin4572]

We try to worship a supreme being but often times we just worship what man puts in front of us. If man never gave us bible god we would not even know bible god existed. We probably shouldnt be worshiping anything

[@davids3487]

Beta's

[@jameswarren180]

This Jude 3 Project is illiterate in so many ways this project is so disappointing in so many ways. you have nobody on stage that makes sense and make any sense I mean like no sense at all

[@lark8356]

Grace and Peace to you. Would you like to be included in our Theology Group chat on a different platform for further discussion? The group an assortment of people with various theological beliefs and backgrounds. What we all have in common is a desire to discuss the bible, religion and Christianity. It's a good opportunity to witness to non-believers and fellowship with believers.

[@Crystal-jw2kc]

Bruh...I thought I was the only one. These folks have gone to college and have no ability to communicate with regular folks. I'm completely lost in this conversation.

[@jameswarren180]

@@Crystal-jw2kc You aren't the only one I mean there is no one on that stage got any kind of sense. They don't have a clue God calls all the shots why are you talking about what some man said white or black.

[@wfs4227]

Please explain. What makes them illiterate? Did they not use Yeshua for you to be convinced? Are you apart of the " sacred names," movement?

[@nickjones1314]

You gone have to tell us why you say they are illiterate

[@wfs4227]

This is why I want to go to the courageous convos this year. Curently working on making that happen 😅✈️💺🛩️🛫 36:08