Should We Cancel Cormac McCarthy?

[@readandre-read]

Creepy people seek out vulnerable people. It's an unsavory and disturbing story. The dynamics remind me of Woody Allen, and people are still arguing about him.

[@BookishTexan]

Yes. It reminds me of the Allen nightmare as well.

[@Lorenzogino]

pretty sure life already cancelled him last year

[@BookishTexan]

True. The issue now has to do with his literary reputation

[@TheTrueRandomGamer]

How is that an issue? A good story doesn't suddenly turn bad because the person who wrote it did something horrible.

[@BookishTexan]

@ if you watched the video I explained the effect it has on my reading.

[@MargheritaReads]

The whole "separating the art from the artist" argument always seemed really hypocritical to me. In school, when we would study literature, we would always study the historical context and the author's biography and we were always told we needed to understand those in order to understand the book. This is common sense in literacy studies. But then, when it comes to idolized writers having done terrible stuff, the music suddenly changes and it's all about valuing the art as if it came out of nowhere. I don't believe in canceling people, but we should face the reality of these author's biographies without shying away from their crimes.

[@BookishTexan]

Excellent point! Either an author’s bio matters or it doesn’t. It always has for me in the sense that the more I know the more I parse the writer’s work for biographical influence.

[@CSreader]

This isn’t entirely accurate. In literary studies, New Criticism challenged overly biographical readings of texts and gave primacy to close-reading of the texts themselves. So this isn’t a given in literary studies and there are plenty of literary critics who would criticize this approach. See: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biographical_fallacy

[@steved1135]

@@CSreader Precisely. Hermeneutics need not always be done.

[@BookChatWithPat8668]

I just sent you an article from The NY Times on this topic written by a former student of mine. I guess I’m not a fan of “canceling” anyone, and yet I’m really so sickened by these men taking advantage of women. More despair…

[@BookishTexan]

It is despair inducing. Thanks for the link. Did you read the Vanity Fair piece?

[@BookChatWithPat8668]

@ reading it now…

[@katherinegarcia3256]

Some accounts say she was 14. She wasn't a woman. She was a child even at 16. She can't give consent. It's not a relationship it's a sex crime. It's that simple. I wish he would have been put in jail. His books should be in the trash. All of them. I threw out mine. He is human garbage. Just like anyone else who puts their hands on a child. It doesn't matter what he did for a living.

[@WhatsWrongWithTheStreet]

Why do some people think things like this are new? There should be no guessing whether or not you are a fan of canceling people. The answer should be a solid no. Who has been deemed the authority to sit like a god pronouncing all to damnation? Each individual will answer for their deeds. If we sat in judgment of every sin every person has comitted, we would get nothing done and have nothing left. Sadly, McCarthy's sins are a natural thing and will go on forever. As long as there are women wanting to be taken advantage of, this will never stop. I know it is not my place to sit in judgement of anyone. What I can do is not give them my money and let them continue their folly. But I would never take away someone's right to earn a living for doing bad things. And that whole consent thing came around in the 1950s when compulsory education extended childhood to 18. My great-grandmother was married and had 4 kids between 13 and 20. The eldest was my grandfather born in 1923. McCarthy is a writing genius with regretable proclivities. But, who doesn't have those? I have them but it's not underage girls. My all-time favorite book is his novel Suttree. It is a masterpiece of storytelling. I've read it twice with every intention to read it again. His other novels are good, too. Suttree just speaks to me.

[@thebookfiend]

⁠​⁠@@WhatsWrongWithTheStreet I'm wondering if I understand your position. You're not a fan of cancelling anyone, but as was explained in the video, McCarthy was not cancelled, even though though he groomed and raped a minor. People are not cancelled. They are either called out, or they are put in prison. You say that as long as there are women to take advantage of, they will be taken advantage of. Please examine this position. Would there be so many opportunities for the exploitation of women and children, if men were less like you and did the right thing, calling out this behavior whenever it appears? Call it out every time. Make it so costly for them, that they stop doing harm to women and children. The idea that a man's livelihood is more important than an actual human girl's whole life is abhorrent, did you try to imagine the girl as a real person? As you write your ugly, inhumane words, are you thinking of the girl who could have been saved from exploitation, only to be betrayed by an older man that in a better world-a world that called out exploitation and harm and wasn't so quick to forgive actual child rape-would just have helped her. He could have just helped her. What he did was a crime. Where is your care for that?Where is your empathy? I truly hope you find some sir, and you can be one of the good ones, the ones who help people instead of perpetuate harm.

[@hazyhillsblue]

I think it was Supposedlyfun who mentioned that when Alice Munro's daughter spoke out, there was much more smoke and disgust than there currently is against McCarthy.

[@BookishTexan]

I have a feeling this will continue to be true and is reflective of how the double standards we have cut in all the ways that are detrimental to those who are not white men.

[@annewoodborne1254]

Alice Munro should also be cancelled.she was complicit in the sexual assaults of her daughter by her second husband.

[@ch1m1ch0nga]

The victim's age at time of offense perhaps makes a difference, I think. 11 > 17, in other words?

[@Enoch828]

Learning that McCarthy was a creep in real life does indeed affect my feelings while reading his exploration of an incestuous relationship in his final books, "Stella Maris" and "The Passenger".

[@BookishTexan]

There is a lot of creepy on the page in a McCarthy novel and a lot of creepy in the man himself.

[@WhatsWrongWithTheStreet]

I have not read those books yet but they are high up my reading list. The reviews for it were good and the two books sounds interesting.

[@eyesonindie]

Like many others (I'm sure), as a teenager I personally witnessed grooming of 15 and 16 year old girls by a teacher in his 40s (who ended up in jail BTW). We all knew something odd was happening, but it didn't dawn on a single one of my friends to tell our parents or another teacher. This stuff is so real. I have no opinion on canceling Cormac McCarthy (other than not being at all surprised), but I do hope that a wide-ranging discussion of whether to "cancel" him and other men like him at least brings awareness to young girls that this sh** is not ok and if you see something weird, tell a freaking adult. That is all!

[@BookishTexan]

@@eyesonindie Glad that teacher ended up in jail. Why didn’t we say anything?!?! The one thing I’ll say about the school where I taught is that after the year 2000 we had an admin change and that new administrators moved incredibly fast when these kinds of issues came up and got the sicko teachers out quickly.

[@IamGOD_007]

If being moral and ethical is all that matters, then we would have to cancel almost all historical figures.

[@BookishTexan]

I didn’t say it was all that matters. I do think there is a difference between expressing racist ideas during a time in which racism was more commonly accepted and grooming and taking advantage of a minor.

[@toddboothbee1361]

The belated tribunal on any of this is absurd and pretentious.

[@BookishTexan]

@@toddboothbee1361 I guess I missed the memo announcing the time of the tribunal meeting.

[@jimsbooksreadingandstuff]

It is good that grooming and sexual abuse of minors is finally being seen for the abuse it is. In the music industry back in the 20th Century figures like Elvis Presley, Jimmy Page and Bill Wyman were known to have sexual relations with adolescents under the age of consent and were not brought to justice for their crimes. With reading I don't usually tend to look in any detail at the life of the author, I judge my feelings on my enjoyment of reading their books. I know for example Roald Dahl was not a particularly nice man. He’s known to have made anti-Semitic statements. Some of his characters were based on racist stereotypes. He did not like single older women much. He wasn’t kind to fat people. But he wrote some great fiction. I'm reading through Charles Dickens' novels and I know he was terrible to his wife, a lot of creative people are immoral, should we just read squeaky clean authors like Brandon Sanderson? I haven't read any Cormac McCarthy yet, knowing about his unsavory private life doesn't make me want to read his books any more or any less, I don't like the idea of cancelling authors, whether it is the left or right calling for their cancellation. Reading The Sun Also Rises, I was jarred out of my reading by Hemingway's liberal use of the N-word to describe a black boxer, I also think bullfighting is a barbaric sport but I did enjoy the novel overall. I think it is for each individual to decide whether they can read such authors, I don't think cancellation is the way to go.

[@bighardbooks770]

Great, poignant points, Jim!

[@BookishTexan]

I agree with all of this Jim. I don’t think a writer has to be squeaky clean to be read. As you said, it’s up to the individual to decide.

[@olphartus5743]

You make a lot of good points in your comment, many of which would have never crossed my mind. As for cancelling, I'm not going to trouble myself over it. I have read, roughly, half of McCarthy's output and have liked most of it, the sole exception being "The Passenger" which I thought was horrible. I don't know whether I'll buy another of his books or not but I do know that I won't feel guilty about it if I do because I'm just one person who's not in the position to render a final verdict on the "cancel" issue. I do know that most of us have had episodes in our lives that we would prefer that others don't know about. For that reason, I might lean towards granting him a little grace. Nobody ever knows all the facts about anything. I appreciate this video very much because it was a very thoughtful discussion of a subject that, to be honest, I hadn't even heard about. Thanks, Bookish.

[@BookishTexan]

@ I hated The Passenger too. Like you I’m not concerned with whether McCarthy is cancelled or not. But as an individual what I now know will always affect my reading/memory of his work.

[@shane505]

No, the artist owes the world is his work; not a model for living.

[@BookishTexan]

No reader owes the artist their loyalty or readership or is obligated to ignore the way they lived their life because they were an artist.

[@1siddynickhead]

​@@BookishTexan well said!

[@WhatsWrongWithTheStreet]

YEs, these people don't go into business to be perfect role models. An artist duty is to portray the foibles and follies of man and nature.

[@BookishTexan]

@ That doesn’t excuse the artist from committing crimes nor should it excuse their behaviors. An artist’s talent does not exempt then from the rules of society

[@TheJohnnyCalifornia]

@@BookishTexan However, isn't the question in regard to the reader enjoying the work? Do the actions of the writer in his life reduce or negate any value in the work? Also, does the life and acts of the artist have any direct impact on the life and actions of the reader?

[@timelston4260]

I'll probably scratch Blood Meridian off my TBR list. I used to watch Tom Cruise movies, but when I found out about the abusive role he relishes in his cult, I stopped watching anything he does. I can't separate the art from the artist in such cases.

[@BookishTexan]

I think that’s fair. We all get to choose.

[@timelston4260]

@greglbennett Ignorance is bliss. When I learned about Rammstein's lead singer Till Lindemann's predatory luring of young women backstage so he could sexually assault them, it was game over for Rammstein for me. People don't have to be perfect, just not predators. Cruise and Lindemann are predators. Sounds like McCarthy groomed a minor when he was in his forties. That's predatory.

[@maryann7619]

Apples and oranges. Tom is an action hero actor. True artists bring us to the singular essence of life. They've experienced it. Cormac McCarthy helped me process some very real and dark parts of myself.

[@MikeWiest]

Excellent. Thank you very much. I also appreciate your teaching me that crucial piece of information about Faulkner.

[@BookishTexan]

You are welcome.

[@bjwnashe5589]

Learning the truth about great artists’ lives, warts and all, even when sketchy and immoral behavior is involved, only makes me MORE interested in their work. It is very easy to be judgmental and dismissive when presented with unpleasant or disturbing information. It is much more rewarding to try and use that information to gain a deeper understanding of human beings and human society and human art.

[@BookishTexan]

It may be more rewarding for you, but that doesn’t mean it will be or should be more rewarding for others. We all get to decide for ourselves.

[@bjwnashe5589]

@ Actually, I disagree. I think it is a huge mistake to dismiss an artist on moral grounds. Very few great artists will pass the test. I encourage us all to avoid the urge to judge and dismiss, and to instead try to deepen our understanding of the human condition.

[@BookishTexan]

@@bjwnashe5589 You are free to disagree with me. As I am free to disagree with you. And I do.

[@creetyuk]

I canceled Salinger for the same reason but I had already read his catalog.

[@madiantin]

I'm pretty horrified by the actions of this man. Who behaves in such a way with an underage, abused girl? How did he justify it? Did he think he was being a romantic saviour? I don't need the authors I read/actors I watch/etc to be paragons of virtue: but I do need them not to be abusers and to act with some form of integrity and kindness.

[@BookishTexan]

@@madiantin I agree. I think McCarthy was a narcissist of a pretty high order perhaps verging on sociopathy.

[@ramblingraconteur1616]

I’ve seen some folks talk about how none of this will change the fact that Blood Meridian (or some other book) is a masterpiece. I don’t really agree with that idea, as the inspirations seem to be traced back to this horror. What it should certainly change is how we talk about his works. A friend pointed out to me that when an artist, writer, or politician’s abuse is ignored or we discuss “separating art from the artist” it basically puts up a barrier between our sensibilities and the fundamental humanity of the victims, not just of that individual, but those we meet or interact with , having no idea about their past or the trauma they carry. Maybe Blood Meridian is a masterpiece, but McCarthy sure looks a lot more like Judge Holden to me than he did last weekend and not in any admirable way. Thanks for sharing this one, Brian.

[@BookishTexan]

Thank you for the great comment Jack. I don’t think the “genius” excuse should mean we ignore the abuse of others that they perpetrate. In reading the article the thought that I had most often, and the one that stayed with me, is that Augusta Britt still doesn’t seem to have fully processed what McCarthy did to her and all the ways he used her. As I said, that will color my view of McCarthy’s work forever. But does that mean that the work itself has diminished in quality? Certainly how I think of it has changed, but has the work gotten worse because of that my new knowledge?

[@altruisticsuffering3307]

what was the age of consent in arizona and texas in the 1970s? wasn't it lower than it is now? if so, then he did nothing illegal

[@BookishTexan]

He met her when she was 16. Forged her birth certificate so he could take her to Mexico which means she was below the age of consent. If she had been at the age on consent she could have left her family and foster care and gone with him anytime she wanted to. He clearly did something illegal.

[@altruisticsuffering3307]

@@BookishTexan age of consent and legal adult are two entirely different things...take singapore for example..age of consent is 16..but to get married one has to be 18

[@BookishTexan]

@ Augusta Britt wasn’t abused in Singapore. She was abused by a man who took her from the U.S. where she was under that age of consent. Which is in fact a crime.

[@altruisticsuffering3307]

@@BookishTexan but was she under the age of consent? we are talking about 1975..age of consent laws were lower then than they are now..i searched and cannot find what the laws were in arizona and texas in 1975

[@BookishTexan]

@ She obviously was not above the age of consent. If she had been then he wouldn’t have had to forge her birth certificate to take her to Mexico. If she had reached the age of consent she wouldn’t have been in foster care. If she had reached the age of consent she could have gone with him openly and they wouldn’t have had to be secretive.

[@books_and_bocadillos]

Very interesting conversation. I won't be hurrying to read Cormac McCarthy...but I can't say I'll never read his writing.

[@BookishTexan]

He could write beautifully, create powerful images, and even tell a good story. He didn’t always, but he could.

[@RasmusKarlJensen]

It really recontextualizes certain parts of No Country for Old Men.

[@BookishTexan]

Yes it does. And The Passenger and Stella Maris

[@RaynorReadsStuff]

Interesting discussion. Personally I feel that anyone doing a job that other people aspire to is not a hero, they’re lucky. The heroes are the ones who empty the bins or sweep the floors for their entire working lives. As for separating art and person, yes I do that. Most people have flaws but that doesn’t make them untalented.

[@BookishTexan]

@@RaynorReadsStuff I agree. McCarthy was a talented writer who produced some very good books. But for me, knowing what I now know, any reading of his books would be altered. I would always be looking for clues about McCarthy’s proclivities and evidence that he mined the life of Augusta Britt for material against her will.

[@Bookspine5]

We shouldn't cancel Cormac, no one is cancelling King either.

[@deancorso6693]

What did King do besides him being an addic to drugs and alcohol?

[@BookishTexan]

I never advocated for cancelling either.

[@Bookspine5]

@@deancorso6693 Some critics have tried to cancel King for having only white male protagonists. The perfect solution for critics of cancelling any author is to read something else that is more in line for their narrative, checklist, etc. I feel certain critic-groups who cancel impactful author actually help garner more curious readers.

[@dailyqwikbytes]

1 you can't cancel the dead. 2 I'm vastly more interested in what the PURPOSE of bringing this up now is, because there most CERTAINLY is a purpose.

[@BookishTexan]

@@dailyqwikbytes A) I didn’t say he should be cancelled. But I’d be willing to bet you his estate and publisher don’t want people to stop buying his books. B) You’re more interested in why his victim waited till after he was dead to tell her story than in her story? Really?

[@dailyqwikbytes]

@@BookishTexan You aren't getting the memo (yet). The issue isn't her telling her story. The issue is who is letting her and much more importantly, why? Little or nothing is promulgated in today's media without the purpose of controlling or at least channeling how and what people think. Savvy now?

[@danielbrowne9089]

What is the ladies evidence / proof?

[@BookishTexan]

@@danielbrowne9089 She has letters. Other people from McCarthy’s life knew about their relationship and helped him hide it. Read the article or another of the half dozen or so that came out last week.

[@ameliareads589]

Thank you so much for this video. It means a lot that men especially are speaking out and standing up against these atrocities. Of course you can never know what exactly is going on in the life of an artist. And if I would find out about Bram Stoker having murdered someone, I probably would still read his work, since neither he himself, nor anyone of the victim's close family is still alive. But what I struggle with is supporting someone when the victim or their loved ones are still around and have to witness the defence and the ongoing admiration for someone, who brought a lot of harm to them. I always ask people, who tell me to separate the art from the artist, if they would still stand by that, if e.g. one of their children would have been assaulted by named artist. And you are absolutely right about that no one rich or famous ever got cancelled.

[@BookishTexan]

Thank you for your wonderful comment. You raise an excellent point that I had not thought about. In the case of Augusta Britt what moved me the most is that she still seems to be struggling with all the ways that McCarthy abused her.

[@lindysmagpiereads]

I am also appreciative of men speaking out against grooming etc. Thank you Brian.

[@BookishTexan]

@@lindysmagpiereads Thank you Lindy

[@grosbeak6130]

If this happened in England where the age of consent is 16 we wouldn't even be talking about this. I find these conversations to be remarkably silly. Bo Derek met her lover and future husband at the age of 16 and he was about 35 years older than her. Edgar Allan Poe 26 or 27 years old married his wife when she was 13.

[@BookishTexan]

Past examples of the same wrongdoing don’t justify wrong doing. For context Poe’s wife died before we knew how she felt and I believe Bo had some unpleasant things to say about John. But the main thing you seem to be missing is that a grown man found a vulnerable girl who he knew was a victim of abuse and chose to groom her and abuse her. The age of consent in England has nothing to do with that.

[@grosbeak6130]

@BookishTexan you just proved that you want to be right. Your sensibility is the ultimate and universal sensibility that should be had. You do but conjecture.

[@BookishTexan]

@@grosbeak6130 Nothing in my post is conjecture. They are the facts as presented in the article. Even Augusta Britt calls him a groomer.

[@grosbeak6130]

I'm not talking about this particular case with this particular author. When I said you do but conjecture I was referring to the Bo Derek situation and the Edgar Allan Poe situation. You were conjecturing. That and you're dismissive attitude about how in England 16 years of age is the age of consent says everything here about you just wanting to be right. I only brought up the England thing to show that your sensibilities are not absolute and universal.

[@BookishTexan]

@ In the video and in our exchange here I have constantly framed my opinion as my opinion. I have not framed any opinions as fact. You brought up Poe and Dereck, not me. I don’t have any need to change your mind, but I’m not going to let you muddle the facts of this specific case (the subject of the video) by throwing out other examples which you seem to think are relevant to this case without pointing out how flawed your examples are.

[@emilystowe3951]

The Passenger and Stella Maris are atrocious in my humble.

[@BookishTexan]

@@emilystowe3951 I agree!

[@TheLeniverse]

Have you read "Monsters: A Fan's Dilemma" by Claire Dederer? I can't recommend that enough. It's a really heartfelt but also balanced discussion about feeling like you can no longer enjoy the art because of the vile actions of the artist.

[@BookishTexan]

I have not read it, but it sounds fascinating. I will add it to my never ending TBR. Thank you.

[@SuperBookdragon]

Teenagers dont realize they are being groomed. I speak from personal experience. He took advantage of someone in a psychologically desperate situation. He was helpful to her up until he decided he needed to have a sexual relationship with her. Did he establish the relationship with that end in mind? We will never know. So many great books out there and so little time , so I will skip the rest of his work.

[@BookishTexan]

This is exactly right. Which is why we have laws to protect teenagers from grown men. Thank you for your comment.

[@scallydandlingaboutthebooks]

Very sane response as ever from you. I did mean to read The Road one day but expect I won't bother now. So many good books to read so why worry with that one now?

[@BookishTexan]

Thank you Ros. I do not think your life as a reader or a human being will be diminished in any way by not reading Tge Road. As you pointed out, there are so many better books to read.

[@olphartus5743]

The only reason you might want to read it would be to compare it to other post apocalyptic novels if you're in to that kind of thing. "The Road" is certainly very masterfully written as you might expect from McCarthy. It's also perhaps the most bleak version ever written in that genre. I was interested because I wanted to compare it to my favorite "Alas, Babylon" which I read when I was about 10-years-old and a few times since. I don't know if it's really that good or I was especially impressionable being a kid and given the fact that there was a Titan II missile silo being built a couple miles down the road from me at the time. I could barely sleep at night and kept having bad dreams about that missile flying out of that silo some fine day (which never happened). One thing about "The Road" is that I don't think it ever mentioned what caused the crash of civilization.

[@scallydandlingaboutthebooks]

@@olphartus5743 thanks. That's helpful.

[@amy_harboredinpages]

I can separate, for the most part, the art from the artist. Unless it is a grievous crime they have or are imprisoned for. Even then, it would only color my decisions in reading their work, but it won't stop me from reading or sharing my thoughts... in my case, it's the feels... I share my feels. Great discussion topic, btw.

[@Abmotsad]

Curious. Does raping a child count as "grievous" to you?

[@BookishTexan]

Thanks Amy. I think being able to separate art from artist is valuable, I just can’t do it. What I know about a writer will always have me parsing their work for evidence.

[@amy_harboredinpages]

@BookishTexan I can totally understand that. Discovering something deplorable such as an accusation of S.A. or similar against an author or other creator living or dead, I would be more likely to avoid their work in the future, too. But if it's just their stance on, say, politics or religious beliefs, then not so much. I especially won't be avoiding the work if the accusation is simply a difference of opinion. I think their are some folks in the book influencing community who go above and beyond to get folks riled up with their ever ready pitch fork cancelation mob for the clickbait viewership.

[@richfarmer3478]

I think the work they leave behind is more important than the lives they lived. Hemingway, Norman Mailer, Philip Roth, T.S. Eliot, Ezra Pound were all flawed human beings but created great works. The composer Richard Wagner was a monstrous person but his operas are still performed today.

[@BookishTexan]

@@richfarmer3478 I think the lives of the people they harmed are more important than the work they left behind.

[@bighardbooks770]

_Child of God_ os the most disturbing, horrific novel I have ever read. And, Oprah turned me on to it! (Admittwdly, I do not read extreme horror--this was close enough, for me!) 😮

[@BookishTexan]

Not likely to read that one my friend

[@CionMohler]

I don’t know why we want to read gossip about dead people. They are dead and cannot defend themselves. You can say anything you like about people because it’s impossible to prove a lie is untrue. I am skeptical about this story because it’s just her word as far as I can tell.

[@BookishTexan]

@@CionMohler She has letters. His letters to her will be a part of his archive at the University of Texas that will be available to the public soon. Augusta Britt’s story has been confirmed by others who knew them both. You certainly are free to ignore the story. I might even wish I had. But I think in its main points it is true.

[@CasperLCat]

I already knew Cormac was terrible to his wife, years ago, forcing her to live in poverty because he couldn’t be bothered to accept speaking engagements which offered sizeable fees. This latest stuff is NO surprise.

[@BookishTexan]

I knew that stuff as well, but grooming and taking advantage of a minor was a surprise.

[@R.L.Kramer]

Nature cancelled him. He died.

[@stephennootens916]

😂

[@BookishTexan]

True the issue is his literary legacy which his publisher and others have a financial interest in.

[@MIDDLEoftheBookMARCH]

I saw the article yesterday. I’m not shocked. I had heard some buzz years ago. But I am emotionally cracked again with the exploits and actions of a narcissistic man of fame.

[@BookishTexan]

I wasn’t shocked or disappointed. I’ve always thought McCarthy was an a-hole. Reading about his victim and what I think are her continuing struggles to come to grips with what he did added a new layer of a-hole.

[@MIDDLEoftheBookMARCH]

@@BookishTexan I get JD Salinger vibes too.

[@markgaskell5370]

More people will be willing to cancel CM whilst feigning pearl-clutching, because they find his work difficult 'Manuscripts dont burn'

[@BookishTexan]

That’s a theory. I don’t think many pearl clutchers were/are likely to read McCarthy before this story came out.

[@genevievedolan1288]

I wish people would stop saying pearl clutching

[@brendajohnson5525]

I read many more books as a child or young adult than I do now, unfortunately. But I do think it would have helped to have this kind of information available before I began. Would it have stopped me? Probably because I am a highly sensitive person. That is why I appreciate book reviews. When I read something that is particularly disturbing it never goes away from my memory. Somehow the joyful stuff doesn't seem to have the same staying power. I wish it did. 🥺

[@BookishTexan]

I wish the joyful stuff had the same impact as the awful as well. My go to joyful book recommendation is Leonard and Hungry Paul by Ronan Hession.

[@goimond3947]

As you said, no famous author ever really got cancelled and no one should be, but personally I think it's unhealthy to give them a pass for being immoral just because they happen to be talented wordsmiths or something. Most of the great authors are probably horrible people, and that's not an enough reason to not read them, but that doesn't mean we should blindly worship them and justify their actions because of their contribution to art.

[@BookishTexan]

I agree completely.

[@bighardbooks770]

I was a big fan of Woody Allen, back in the day. I think his actions regarding his step daughter (now his wife of decades) arent for me to judge; however, I cant help disliking him, now. I like to defend McCarthy's _No Country for Old Men:_ 1st, the title's from Yeats' poem, "Sailing to Byzantium;" 2nd, The chapters all begin in itals w Tommy Lee Jones' character "breaking the 4th wall;" 3rd, The evil antagonist, Anton Chigurh (pronounced = Sugar!) was just voted "most disturbing psychopath" in American literiture.

[@BookishTexan]

I feel free to judge Allen and McCarthy. A man using his position to establish a sexual relationship with a minor. I do love the movie No Country for Old Men

[@BooksForever]

The whole concept of “canceling” is unnecessarily provocative and feeds into unhelpful partisan narratives. Instead, we would be better served couching these situations in the same language that America is famous for - free market capitalism. When a person or product disappoints, disgusts, or fails to impress an unprecedentedly well-informed customer base (thank to the Information Age), then the chips simply fall accordingly. The market speaks, and individuals vote with their wallets - even if that vote is a wallet remaining closed. Rather than acknowledging this market reality, partisan hacks (typically on the Right) would prefer to point the finger at and vilify the informed culture cohort with accusations of nefarious “cancelling” activity. Why? Because they likely deem their own unsavory selves to be the next thing falling afoul of market scrutiny.

[@BookishTexan]

I think cancelling is ineffective (which I said in the video) but its greatest effect is as a boycott as you described .

[@artstories52]

I have trouble separating the artist and the art as well. I read Catcher in the Rye in high school so I didn't know anything about the author but now it will affect how I feel about that book. I didn't know what you said about Faulkner but I do know about Agatha Christie and I still read her books from time to time. My biggest disappointment during covid was Clapton and Morrison. Poetic Champions Compose was a fav CD of mine now I don't listen to it. ugh

[@BookishTexan]

We share that problem. And like you it doesn’t always keep me from reading or enjoying works by authors who have done or said terrible things. With McCarthy I have the luxury of already having read most of is work. I also think it matters that he took advantage of a minor. I won’t reread any more of his work and will not recommend it.

[@johnsilver8059]

I really like Led Zeppelin. I’m not a super fan, but I own all their studio albums and listen to them, with the exception of In Through the Out Door, multiple times a year. Jimmy Page is not exactly a person you’d want to leave with your teenage daughter. Doesn’t change how I feel about the music.

[@BookishTexan]

@@johnsilver8059 We all get to decide what affects us and what doesn’t.

[@marichristian]

She was by no means an innocent little girl. She'd had a rough life and found some respite in her long relationship with McCarthy. He in turn used her stories as inspiration for his novels.

[@abigailsantana2662]

She was literally a child. What are you talking about

[@marichristian]

@@abigailsantana2662 Read the Vanity Fair article.

[@BookishTexan]

@@marichristian She was a minor, a child. She was an abuse victim. McCarthy knew all this. He “befriended” her. Gave her money. Set up secret meetings. Altered her birth certificate so he could take her out of the country. He knew what he was doing was a crime. He did it anyway. Children cannot consent to sax with adults.

[@marichristian]

@@BookishTexan Well, now I know where you stand. The girl was already abused and had suffered in foster homes. He gave her a modicum of safety. That they became sexual partners doesn't surprise me. Apparently, she had already read some of McCarthy's early novels and identified with characters and situations. She calls him "the love of [her] life" because the attachment was life long.If one can't detach the author or artist from his or her work, we'd probably banish some of the greatest writers and artists from our lives.,

[@BookishTexan]

@ It’s sounds like you are saying that since she had already been abused being abused by a man who had groomed her to trust him was no big deal. Surely, that can’t be what you meant. McCarthy could have done everything he did for her and not slept with her and he would be a hero. He didn’t. He committed a crime. To me her saying her abuser is was the love of her life is sad. She could have done better and might have if she weren’t being abused, manipulated, and strung along by an old man who was using her. If you watched my video you should know that I did not advocate for “cancelling” McCarthy and you would know what I meant be not being able to separate art from artist.

[@barrymoore4470]

Brian, I appreciate your thoughtful and sober analyses and commentaries. You are unfailingly honest, sincere, and fair, and you cogently present your argument while respecting the rights of others to hold different opinions. McCarthy was and remains a great writer who was also clearly a seriously flawed human being. An artist friend of mine, as aware as any of how often gifted people can be difficult or disappointing in their personal lives, submits that it is in their art that a morally dubious creator redeems himself or herself, that this is the positive legacy that they leave to humanity as a whole. It's a useful perspective to ponder when confronted with these kinds of vexing histories.

[@BookishTexan]

@@barrymoore4470 The idea that a morally dubious artist “redeems” themselves through their work is one that I have frequently argued regarding Faulkner and racism:He is better in his books than in his life. I find it hard to apply that idea to McCarthy. He doesn’t have the excuse of being a product the culture in which he lived. That culture specifically made what he did illegal. And we can’t claim that he was ignorant of the wrong he did because he was aware enough of it to forge documents and keep his relationship with Britt a secret and get those close to him to keep that secret. Finally, what he did and all the ways he used and misused Augusta Britt from her late childhood through he adulthood are, for me, things that can’t just be overlooked. I’ve read nothing in McCarthy that suggests the McCarthy on the page was working through the wrong he had done or had or was emerging differently. No matter how beautiful the writing it doesn’t excuse the harm he did. As I said in the video we all have to decide for ourselves how we feel about McCarthy and his work moving forward.

[@BookishTexan]

@@barrymoore4470 I just reread my earlier comment and I realize it is more aggressive than I intended. I’m sorry for that. I appreciated your comment and kind words very much.

[@barrymoore4470]

@@BookishTexan No worries, Brian. I thought everything you expressed was both honest and respectful.

[@kevinrussell-jp6om]

I like what you've done here. It strikes me as an honest, measured reaction, and it provides a good service for those not informed on the matter. I had not heard this news. I've never read a CM book, and after listening to reviews of Blood Meridian, it was clear it's not for me. I've read a little WF, but I struggle with him. Never put anyone (even Jesus...it's idolatry) on a pedestal and remember we all (except Jesus) have clay "something" (our feet, our hearts, our moral compass...whatever). Like you, I can't separate the author from the work, and some people, like bridges, are too far. Thanks.

[@BookishTexan]

Thank you for the very kind words. Not idolizing others (artists,athletes, politicians,etc) is a hard lesson to learn and one many, apparently, still haven’t or refuse to learn. With McCarthy I have the advantage of already having read all of his books I was likely to and already having formed a negative opinion of the man. I don’t think you are missing much by not reading him just as I don’t think I will miss much by not rereading him. But do wonder what my reaction would be if I found out something equally terrible about my favorite living and still writing writer.

[@kevinrussell-jp6om]

@@BookishTexan Good question. I don't know. We're advised not to judge, yet we do. We're urged to forgive (if we can), but sometimes we can't. It appears you've struck a chord here, as the comment section is blowing up. Thanks again for tackling this difficult topic.

[@BookishTexan]

@ Thank you for you wise and intelligent contribution.

[@labcat647]

I think in the end we are looking for excuses to justify keeping the art rather than acknowledging the deep art/artist/audience connection from a moral perspective.

[@BookishTexan]

This is really interesting. Would you mind explaining what you mean in more depth.

[@BernieSymes]

First time I've seen your posts(subscribed). You bring up a very interesting topic. Personally, even though I would like to not let an authors personal life affect my reading I'm afraid that it does. I don't' beleive in " cancelling" an author as who are we to judge anyone else(I do realise that this statement is contradictory)! In two minds😊

[@BookishTexan]

Thank you Bernie. We are the same in terms of not being able to separate writer from work, but I feel free to judge them 😂

[@Johanna_reads]

I haven’t read the article yet, but I appreciated hearing your thoughts. I feel more and more awkward glorifying authors on BookTube with Top Authors or Best Authors types of videos. I’ve been debating whether to do one on female authors I’ve read this past year, but I don’t want to send the message that I’m celebrating an author beyond the work they’ve written. At the same time, I’m also with you in feeling like I can’t fully separate art from artist-I have in the past, but I’m finding that more and more difficult to do. I clearly need to process my thoughts on this topic more…

[@BookishTexan]

I’m not sure I will ever finishing processing this kind of issue. Each case seems different and unfortunately each seems worse than the one before.

[@midnightgreen8319]

He's dead, what is anyone actually going to do to him?!?!

[@BookishTexan]

Wondering if you watched my video or just reacted to the title? What I think his fans, biographers, and scholars of his work are worried about is the damage this revelation will do to his legacy (and by proxy their work).

[@midnightgreen8319]

@BookishTexan His work is his work. Lots of artists, and writers have done terrible things. Leonardo da Vinci was a pedophile. Is that brought up every time his accomplishments are mentioned? I'm not defending those behaviors by any means. McCarthy can be both a brilliant writer and a terrible person.

[@BookishTexan]

@@midnightgreen8319 My point was that there are those who are invested in defending his literary reputation. You are right that nothing can be done to McCarthy himself, but I would point out that your mention of Leonardo being a pdfile proves that these things do hurt the reputation of dead people long after they are gone.

[@midnightgreen8319]

@@BookishTexan Yet his accomplishments remain. The famous saying "Never meet your heroes" comes to mind. Very few artists pass the purity test. I personally don't have any issues really enjoying books written by terrible people.

[@midnightgreen8319]

@@BookishTexan I will also remind you that cancelling someone only works if nearly everyone buys into the cancellation.

[@LibroParadiso-ep4zt]

I remember when Claire Bloom wrote her memoir where she talked about when she realized her then husband Philip Roth was writing about them and the women he was having affairs with in his novels. Made me think for a moment if it was a pattern in his books. But only for a moment since his books didn't interest me. It didn't affect his popularity or admiration among readers in the literary world and among those I personally knew especially women. I understand your position of being unable to separate a writer's personal and historical experience from his or her work, as you talked about Faulkner. I don't have that issue. Whether or not Augusta Britt was Mccarthy's "muse" is irrelevant to me going forward when I re-read his books I admire like Blood Meridian, Suttree, and All the Pretty Horses. The stories are interesting, beautiful, and real. If she inspired any of the characters so be it. It doesn't cloud my reading experience of those books. They remain beautiful works of art.

[@BookishTexan]

Thank you for the great comment. As o said in the video, we all get to decide. I do think Roth’s reputation was hurt by his actions as I think McCarthy’s reputation will be hurt by his. For me the issue that will color my memories of McCarthy’s work isn’t whether or not Britt was his muse, but the fact that he sexually abused a minor and THEN mined her life for his characters and stories.

[@bwalyamumba2139]

Grateful to have your channel. This place has genuine and thoughtful discussion on literature and society.

[@BookishTexan]

Thank you very much.

[@DaisyXMachina]

Woah, hadn't heard of this. Don't look up David Eddings and Marion Zimmer Bradley...

[@BookishTexan]

@@DaisyXMachina Yeah, I already know about them.

[@steved1135]

What an inane discussion. No one should be 'cancelled'. If a person can't separate the art from the artist, that person is simply insufficiently intelligent to handle art. I'm not a fan of McCarthy as an author as I don't like his writing. Given his situation here I can say I'm not a fan of him as a person either now. But the two need not agree. The entire notion of 'cancelling' someone is ridiculous in any case; it's just a social media scarlet letter, signifying nothing, and achieving nothing.

[@BookishTexan]

@@steved1135 So you didn’t watch the video then.

[@steved1135]

@@BookishTexan Indeed I did.

[@BookishTexan]

@@steved1135 Then please leave a time stamp where I said we should cancel McCarthy. Please leave a time stamp where I said we shouldn’t separate art from artist.

[@steved1135]

@@BookishTexan Ah I see the source of confusion now. I wasn't referring to any statement made in the video, but rather the title in making use of the term. Somewhat of a meta textual comment. I find that even making use of it contributes to the silly notion. And as I noted in my initial comment, we should always strive to separate the artist from their art.

[@BookishTexan]

@ Why must “we,” as in all of us, separate art from the artist? Why is that the imperative? Why can’t I choose to separate art from artist on a case by case basis as I see fit.

[@ariannefowler455]

I'm so tired of these stories coming out about men. Not to accuse or generalize all men, of course. I don't put anyone on a pedestal so I don't feel personally let down by any artist. Ultimately, I feel exhausted so I won't give energy to certain authors. I won't cancel them or wish their work banned. I just won't seek out their work. In this particular case, the fact that McCarthy used this young girl as his muse and he put characteristics of her in several books creeps me out. I'm not sure I could objectively overlook that to enjoy his writing.

[@BookishTexan]

Than you Arianne! You summed up what I tried to say in the video much better than I did!

[@jennyjaybles]

I appreciate your video so very much. I am so glad I never read his books and now I never will. I am far too sensitive of a person and I really cannot stand when people insist just "separate the art from the artist." NO. If you lived in my head and understood my personal experiences in life you would never dare ask me to do such a thing for any author. Also, I feel I have a right to my 2 cents in the matter as I had the experience of a musician writing a song about me after I rejected him when I was in my early 20's. In the article even though she is unwilling to admit she was groomed it is poignant her describing how uncomfortable it made her that he wrote about her. I understand her feelings here. It's like he couldn't have her so he stole her in another way through writing her into the books. And that is creepy. I know this because it was extremely horrible to have this musician screaming this blues song about how he failed to "trick" me into sleeping with him. Until my dying day I will be glad I rejected him. The song is misogynistic. He was a womanizer and cocaine addict and thankfully I was smart enough to turn him down. Never go out on a date with a guy with a Chuck Berry tattoo. You tell him to go to hell and the next thing you know he's singing a song about how he's cutting himself because you wouldn't sleep with him. Anyway, It's not romantic to be a muse. It feels gross. It feels unfair. It feels like my voice and my feelings are not taken into account. And yes so I am not able to close my emotions off and appreciate an author if I know about stuff like this. It's too personal for me.

[@BookishTexan]

@@jennyjaybles Oh my goodness that is horrible. You definitely have the right to your two cents and to not separate art from artist. It’s not something I can do and I haven’t had the experience you have. Your story and Britt’s story illustrate how too many men move be the lives of women for their own purposes and seem to think those women should be flattered or think it’s cool to be their “muse.” This bs goes back to at least Dante and Beatrice and do it just seems like one of those things that people like the author of the Vanity Fair article think are good and normal. The author of the article seems surprised that Britt was disturbed by what McCarthy wrote about her when it is a true violation of their relationship and her experiences.

[@jennyjaybles]

@BookishTexan ugh I didn't know about this Dante and Beatrice thing. This a shame how a lot of what's perceived as so called "love stories" are just sexual harassment told from one point of view.

[@BookishTexan]

@ it was part of that “idealized” love things that was fashionable at the time. No contact just a lot of mooning over young women and writing poems about them

[@davidnovakreadspoetry]

Haven’t read him yet… 🤔

[@randywaldron2715]

John Steinbeck wrote some of the best fiction of the 20th century. He was an abusive husband, but no one would ever have known as much if judging only by such wonderfully human novels as Cannery Row or any other of his shorter works. Never met your heroes, I guess. Steinbeck must still be read. So must all imperfect writers of brilliant works.

[@BookishTexan]

As I stated in rhetoric video it is dangerous to make idols out of men. I don’t think Steinbeck or any author must be read. Not even the most virtuous

[@LeBlancElsewhere]

Definitely horrible to hear he did this. One of my main inspirations to get into writing. And I'll never forget the mystic experience I had reading the masterpiece Blood Meridian up in the mountains of Tennessee. But this definitely sours my enjoyment of his works, knowing the tangible evil that inspired the beauty in his novels. It can't be unseen. Probably won't picking anything else from him up after I finish The Passenger, a book in which the brother-sister relationship I really have to call into question now. It is good to address this moral dilemma though, it's not like he was the most virtuous man before this story released anyway. I definitely have held blind spots of idolatry for authors like him, Fitzgerald, Steinbeck, etc that are important to face and reconcile. Thanks for this steady and level-headed perspective. Good video as always!

[@BookishTexan]

@@LeBlancElsewhere Thank you for the great comment. I think we all have to decide for ourselves how to deal with each of these problematic authors. The first books I thought of when I read this article were The Passenger and Stella Maris because of that relationship and how this presented by McCarthy. Which illustrates why this news will forever alter my reading and memory of McCarthy’s books.

[@TKTalksBooks]

I have read All the Pretty Horses and The Road. I thought they were both great books…not on my special shelf of what I consider “perfect” (meaning no notes) but great. I have had no reason to read the others. With this news about him, I will definitely not be going forward with others.

[@BookishTexan]

@@TKTalksBooks Those two give you a good idea of his writing and focus I think. No need to read more.

[@RSelcov]

I've been interested in reading Claire Dederer's book Monsters: A Fan's Dilemma, which addresses the questions of whether to and how to separate a problematic artist from their work.

[@BookishTexan]

I’m just read another comment recommending this book. I will definitely add it to my list of books to read.

[@hunterhicks9525]

What I think is most disheartening is how people on either side of it are still overlooking the actual woman at the center of this, even the way the original article was written just felt so heartbreaking that her entire life and experiences were condensed into a poorly written Variety Fair piece by a fanboy, I have no doubt she would have articulated her perspective far better had she been the one to write about this. I also don’t say this because it’s “what he wanted” for her, I think she should have ultimate control for how and when her story is told and am just disappointed it was done so in a way that continued to decenter her agencies and reduce her to just an age and sex in the general discussion

[@BookishTexan]

@@hunterhicks9525 The Vanity Fair story is a disgrace. Some one else said, and I agree, that McCarthy exploited her twice and then the author of the article exploited her again. I hope she gets an agent and a chance to tell her own story.

[@bbbartolo]

I'm one for separating the art from the artist as a social being. Too many great artists and authors were monsters in their social lives, their politics, etc., and I say take brilliance where you find it. They're arguably totally different personalities when they are practicing their craft. I doubt that I could stand to be around Hemingway very long; even my lit professor called him an overgrown boy scout. I thought that may apply to the author of All the Pretty Horses, the only McCarthy I've read. As a painter I virtually teethed on Picasso, a sexist monster if there ever was one, but it rarely is detectable in his work.

[@BookishTexan]

As I said, I still think some of McCarthy’s work is great. Not separating art from artist isn’t, for me, about making a moral judgement and applying it to the work, but about parsing their work for evidence of the author’s failings. This doesn’t keep me from reading or rereading, but it does alter my perception of the work. For example I’ve never read Celine, but I know if I did I would read with an eye for evidence of what I know about Celine and that would affect my perception of the work.

[@WhatsWrongWithTheStreet]

That is true for most people with creative, analytical imaginations.

[@BookishTexan]

@@WhatsWrongWithTheStreet What is true?

[@WhatsWrongWithTheStreet]

@@BookishTexan Have rage and violent tendencies. Tormented artists and all that.

[@BookishTexan]

@@WhatsWrongWithTheStreet Try to express a complete thought.

[@Sachie465]

Personally, if I like a work, I don't care how bad the author is. If I stop reading because of bad news about the author, it simply means that I didn't like it that much.🙁

[@BookishTexan]

Fair enough.

[@RobertGReaderofBooks-r3p]

This is a tough one. And I understand your point. But I think we’re treading on some dangerous ground here. Acknowledging a creep’s talent doesn’t mean you approve of the creep’s lifestyle. Does it? Even if an author’s private actions or comments cause one to wonder how those things informed his or her art, is no reason to become obsessed with that or to dismiss the artist’s work in toto. I understand you don’t support cancelling but think of the reaction of a typical Trumper when it’s discovered the author of a book on the school reading list is gay or a “socialist” or a “liberal”: it’s always a call for book banning. We can’t let ourselves go down that rabbit hole.

[@BookishTexan]

I don’t think I got anywhere near the book banning rabbit hole, but I see what you mean. I don’t think appreciating a creeps art means you appreciate the creep. For me it is a matter of how what I know affects my thoughts while reading. In McCarthy’s case I’ve already read all of his work that I ever intended to so if I reread it would likely only be to ferret out details that I thought reflected his creepiness. I’m really not interested in that. But, as I said, it is up your us as individuals to make these decisions for ourselves.

[@RobertGReaderofBooks-r3p]

@@BookishTexan Fair enough. And I've always enjoyed your channel, and that's not going to change. I sometimes think the Trump horror show currently being played out in the country is making us all a little jumpy, myself included.

[@BookishTexan]

@ Your comment about the dangers of going down a rabbit hole that leads to book bans is a good one. People can arrive at that place from different starting directions.

[@zab416]

This does bother me on the "all writers are vanpires" level, a phrase which I'm copping from The Friend by Sigrid Nunez. That part obviously bothered Britt, that McCarthy used her life for inspiration a lot. That's way more of a wide-ranging issue. It's squicky with McCarthy now and with Alice Munroe especially in one story. But the Bad Art Friend saga made me incredibly disappointed. Interesting in that involved a bunch of not famous authors and one famous one. And Rachel Cusk getting sued by people and having to redact a part from a novel is hilarious but I mean, if she just described real people in a derogatory way with no veneer of fiction, they had a right! And the guy behind the short story Cat Person got kind of unfairly maligned. Literary fiction writers are possibly kind of terrible people in this regard. It's not (usually) crime crime of course, but it does honestly bother me.

[@BookishTexan]

@@zab416 What a great comment! Thank you for sharing it. Are Lit Fic writers just bad people? Possibly. Maybe there is just something inherently narcissistic or sociopathic about people who write made up stories set in the real world in an attempt to create art. There certainly are a bunch of examples of writers who fit the description. I do wonder if success and fame(?) goes to their heads a bit exacerbating their worst qualities. The bad art friend story, in which everyone comes off kind of terrible, dies seem to indicate the opposite, Thanks again.

[@zab416]

@BookishTexan Thanks for the reply! I got obsessed with digging into Bad Art Friend, dug into the details, and will defend Dawn Dorland till the end of time I think lol. I hope it's still a minority. It's a bizarre thing, but I knew one very successful litfic writer in a small online community before she got published and blew up. Maybe she's changed, people do, but she was a nice person with a moral compass, and a villain arc would seem insane even though she's really famous now. I'm not name dropping because I usually do and it's kinda lame of me haha. But point is, there probably are/have been plenty of successful litfic authors who are fairly grounded people not secretly causing trouble. At least I hope so!

[@raswartz]

I've never been a fan of Cormac McCarthy and the story didn't surprise me at all.

[@BookishTexan]

Fair enough.

[@MarcNash]

Several of John Banville's crime novels are based on a real life aristocrat double-murderer. Mind you, Banville's getting cancelled for his views on women...

[@BookishTexan]

@@MarcNash I’ve never read Banville though I have meant to. Is he really getting cancelled though? He’s in his 70s and had a new book out this year.

[@MarcNash]

@@BookishTexan you're right, called out rather than cancelled. Ol' Bill Burroughs shot his wife, Louis Althusser strangled his...

[@Uppernorwood976]

Readers should decide for themselves where their personal line is drawn for things like this. I understand that people might be put off him now, but they don’t have the right to prevent others reading his books. I completely agree that you shouldn’t idolise people, or at least be clear about what it is you’re admiring about them. For authors it’s their writing, not their character or morality.

[@BookishTexan]

It should be up to every individual. Just as it is up to every individual to decide whether an authors morality affects their view of the authors writing.

[@BenCallahanCo]

no

[@mikerickson01]

Should we listen to the music of Jerry Lee Lewis? How about the Stalin apologist Paul Robeson? Should Americans who opposed WWII be blacklisted? How about Herodotus, Plato, Cicero or Ovid?

[@kevinrussell-jp6om]

Thou mayest.............

[@BookishTexan]

Did you watch my video or just react to the title? My answers are contained in the video.

[@mikerickson01]

@@BookishTexan I heard the whole thing. The issue of this author is not new.

[@BookishTexan]

@@mikerickson01 Then you knew my answer when you asked the questions in your first comment.

[@1book1review]

At no point in this story does this not sound creepy to me. However, I am at the position that probably everybody has done things. Especially for men it is a risk to put them on a "decent person" standard. So many have crossed boundaries that are blurry in hindsight. I honestly miss the times before the internet on that point where you couldn't see the author in real life interactions. Much less disappointment. It does decrease my interest in reading his books even more, though. Good beginning to the video btw.

[@BookishTexan]

As a former high school teacher my creep alarm was going off from the beginning of the article. The grooming that McCarthy was guilty of is something that I was all too aware was a threat to many of my students posed by upperclassmen, family friends, random creeps, church officials, and unfortunately even staff on rare occasions.

[@takecareofyourshoess]

If you "canceled" or removed the work every artist throughout history who had done questionable things in their lives...guess what you'd be left with? Not much. Not much at all. Art is separate from artist. If you can't deal with what someone has done...that's fine. Don't support that artist. But the collective beating down of an artist such that their work needs to be removed from society (either actually or effectively) is not the right thing to do, imo. Leave the artwork alone and let everyone make THEIR OWN decision about how they feel about what a given artist has done. STOP THE FUCKING "CANCELING". Take the word (in this context) right out of your vocabulary. It's BULLSHIT.

[@BookishTexan]

You didn’t actually watch the video did you? Also, I’m far less worried about the damage to the artist than I am to his victim.

[@takecareofyourshoess]

@@BookishTexan First of all, thank you for not simply deleting a post that you don't agree with and instead engaging with me. That is becoming very rare these days, sadly. The damage to the victim, though tragic, has NOTHING to do with the art. They should not be conflated. The fate of the PERSON, which happens to be an artist, is separate from their work and it is a different issue entirely. Do we go and wipe out the work, whatever it may be in society, of every person convicted of sexual assault? We don't. Why are we doing it to artists just because their work is in the public domain???

[@BookishTexan]

@@takecareofyourshoess What they have to do with one another. The same person who authored the books authored the crime and damage done to the victim. You are free to separate the art from the artist. Just as I am free to not separate them. No where in this video did I call for cancelling McCarthy.

[@nationalskaren]

I’ve been thinking a lot and comparing this to the Matt Gaetz story. Yes, he should have known better, he had a child her age I believe, but on the other hand we are all complex, flawed and not always woke beyond the era we live in. I don’t believe he ment to use and abuse. Sometimes people connect despite their differences. I say this as a woman who had various experiences in my youth and believe me - a 16/17yo can be mature enough to make a decision about herself and don’t blame anyone for making them (i dont say it was ok). I don’t want to defend his decisions but what I got from the article is that he was really lost and miserable at that point in his life, but when she set boundries he somehow respected them and deeply cared about her throughout his life. I still don’t get why he used her story so much and why he didnt stop doing it knowing THAT part bothered her. Thats whats most shocking to me to be honest.

[@nationalskaren]

To underline - I’d like to defend Augusta’s decisions and say she sounds like a dope woman. If a 50-60yo Augusta says it was fine and she’s thankful it happened, why not believe her???

[@BookishTexan]

I don’t think we read the same story. And a minor cannot give consent under any circumstances to a sectional relationship with an adult. That is why we have laws protecting them and not letting juries decide if children are mature enough to consent. McCarthy knew it was illegal and forged her birth certificate so he could take her to Mexico where he assaulted her.

[@BookishTexan]

Because it’s not up to 64 year old Augusta what is and isn’t a crime.

[@nationalskaren]

@@BookishTexan I know it’s not, but at the same time it’s her life and it bothers me that her side of the story is not important. I simply dont want to be the jury over her life. He did something bad and it would still be bad of she was 18 at the time - I feel that she talked because she wanted to be Augusta and not „cormacs victim”

[@BookishTexan]

@ I 100% support her desire to not be framed as a victim if that’s what she is after. That doesn’t mean she wasn’t a victim when she was a child and it doesn’t absolve McCarthy of the crime he committed.

[@stevendavis1940]

At some point, a person decides to jump on the political correctness bandwagon. Political correctness has won. It rules now. We can go back in history and judge all persons by the idiotic standards we now purport to live by. If these persons have a hint of failure to live up to these standards, we can then talk about them as villians. We can judge them. You think you have to worry about who we judge, whether to judge, who we cancel. I am not concerned with this.

[@BookishTexan]

First, I have to wonder if you actually watched my video or are just reacting to the title. Second, I wonder if you read the Vanity Fair story that my video references. Third, McCarthy died in 2023. He did not live in a time in which sexually abusing a minor was considered ok. Finally, if “political correctness” ruled our lives we wouldn’t have just elected a convicted felon, rap ist, and serial sexual abuser President of the United States.

[@1siddynickhead]

First Gaiman and now this

[@BookishTexan]

I think the consequences for Gaiman are likely to be more severe.

[@1siddynickhead]

@BookishTexan True and he has many victims that span decades. I listened to the Tortoise channel podcasts concerning his abuse victims and their testimony. I don't know if any of it will hold up in court because of the nature of the evidence but the pattern, the abuse and grooming is clear. At least some streaming services and other businesses have pulled out of projects with him so that's something.

[@BookishTexan]

@ Like you I think people are right if they wish to disengage from Gaiman or McCarthy.

[@1siddynickhead]

@@BookishTexan Yes, it's up to the individual. I for one can't look at them in the same way after learning the truth. Some things are too disturbing to ignore.

[@stephennootens916]

I agree with you the whole cancel thing. People for last few years have gone on and on about poor me I got cancelled and in truth nothing happened to them they say it to attention and win a new audience over because the one they had walked away from them when they found out they were an ass. Second this one of the few videos on McCarthy I have charecters have come across that does feel like they agreeing but he such a genius it shouldn't matter he banged an underage teenager. If you like an artist even if they are horrible fine but don't go around accessing their actions or making seem like their work his to great for their actions not to matter. I use to read J K Rowling bit stopped after her views came out. Also while I am at it I hate how so many people seem to think or support they idea all writers have some dark past or some such thing. Look Stephen King other than his addiction issues is not far as I known been viewed as horrible person. And it should be noted the drugs did not help him write in fact before it quit took it away. He has said many times how he has no memory of writing Cujo because of the habit. So don't give me that bunk about artist need to be dark and tortured and so forth than you vary much.

[@BookishTexan]

Excellent comment. Being a writer or an artist does not excuse illegal or bad behavior. We all get to decide who we are going to read and support with our dollars.

[@TKTalksBooks]

At the present moment I must say I’m pretty pretty pretty damn disappointed with men in general .. (it’s been a rough few weeks )

[@BookishTexan]

@@TKTalksBooks Yep.

[@TKTalksBooks]

@ (You are an obvious exception, my friend 😊)

[@marciaalbaum2597]

roth was not a great human either

[@BookishTexan]

Nope. He was not.

[@audreyh7892]

Isn’t he dead? Difficult to cancel a corpse

[@BookishTexan]

@@audreyh7892 It’s his literary reputation, something that his publisher, his biographer, and scholars that write about his work have a financial interest in, that is at risk.

[@audreyh7892]

Many artists are monsters. I guess when I think about cancelling someone, I think it is to scold the author for bad behavior and bring about a change in behavior or acknowledgment of behavior. The author can no longer do these things. I wouldn’t support him. I hope the young lady finds peace.

[@BookishTexan]

@@audreyh7892 Did you watch my video?

[@findbridge1790]

read child of god

[@ExpatRiot79]

Frankly, what you're stating is a fundamental dishonesty. You said he rpd her, when he did not. By her own admission it was she who pursued him first. She said he saved her life, but you turn around tell her she should have died because, well, the letter of law says blah-blah-blah. Under the same reasoning, by your logic, you would be the type of person who would turn a Jew hiding in the basement into the SS because the letter of the law says so.

[@BookishTexan]

Umm… no. We have laws that prevent men from doing what McCarthy did to Britt. Minors cannot give consent because they are minors. McCarthy found a teenage girl who was vulnerable and manipulated her into a sexual relationship with him. That’s grooming. That is rape. He could have rescued her in exactly the same way and not had sex with her. By her own admission she was taken aback at the sexuality of his letters. And he clearly pursued her. She was trapped in one place with no money and no vehicle. He came and went, set up their meetings, gave her money, planned their escape to Mexico and even altered her birth certificate so they could cross the border. He knew he was committing a crime. I wonder if you even read the article.

[@ExpatRiot79]

@@BookishTexan First, you have no clue in your little head what rape is. No clue what so ever. Just as I said before, if there were Jews in the basement, you would be the first person calling the Nazis "cause that's the law!" She said herself that she was not a victim. Now you turn and around and start this victim culture nonsense.

[@Noyb.265]

No. The End.

[@Abmotsad]

I have always said that McCarthy writes like an anxious teenage boy who - having found a thesaurus in the bargain bin at the local thrift store - has set out to impress a goth girl who is, alas, much smarter than he. That little bit of snark now seems to have aged reasonably well. Now, please, line up by the refreshments table in an orderly fashion to defend your testosterone-addled wordsmith. No pushing! Regular on the left, decaf on the right!

[@BookishTexan]

I laughed out loud at your description of McCarthy and his writing style. It’s brilliant. At least since he was writing to impress a goth girl his books occasionally came out more interesting and strange than they might have if he was writing to impress the head cheerleader.

[@Abmotsad]

@@BookishTexan That's actually a good point.

[@philyeary8809]

Let socialists dictate morality😂😂😂😂 Lets cancel liiiiiifeeee😂 Pathetic. 16 is consent.

[@BookishTexan]

@@philyeary8809 16 is not consent. McCarthy knew this because he altered her passport so he could get past border control when he took her to Mexico. Based on the ignorance of your comment I don’t think you watched my video or read the article it is a reaction to.

[@etagged]

This characterization is about as milksop as it gets. How is it grooming when they got together very soon after they met? Any romantic situation with a minor is necessarily abuse (considering that different jurisdictions have different designated ages for "minors")? If an individual can qualify as a "mature minor" for the purpose of health decisions, then we should also refrain from painting every situation with someone under the legal age of consent as "abuse" and "predatory behaviour". Your reasoning is ultimately artificial and speaks to your cowardice/blind adherence to arbitrary standards.

[@BookishTexan]

Did you read the Vanity Fair article? If not you should. And yes I think any sexual contact (that’s what we are talking about, not romance) is abuse.

[@audreyh7892]

Give them a few months and there won’t be such a thing as consent.

[@BookishTexan]

@@audreyh7892 That is something we must resist.

[@etagged]

@@BookishTexan I did read the article. We are talking about romance that cumulated in sexual contact and it would be disingenuous to claim otherwise. Your stance basically equates to the legal and cultural standard in your milieu. Maybe one day you can give these issues genuine thought.

[@etagged]

@@audreyh7892 The problem is that Britt never once claimed that there was a lack of consent. She found a man who took her away from her shitty life and whom she said she loved. Would this all have been better if they had a purely non-sexual romance? The issue here isn't consent, it's your disgust response.