Should We Recognize ABA Legends?

A look at Basketball player's resumes if their stats and accomplishments counted in their time in both the NBA and ABA.
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The game of Basketball has been my passion since I was 5 years old. I grew up as a kid watching my dad's recorded VHS tapes of playoff games through the 70s and 80s, and collected all the Basketball cards. Something about the game and what it represents just hooked me from a very young age.
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[@jonnyarnett]

Simple question… Are ABA players appreciated enough?? NOTE: This is a remade version of a script I made a couple years ago. The stats have been updated, and I wanted to represent this with better quality, thanks to my new editor. I’m kinda itching to delve more into ABA history, so let me know if more ABA coverage is something you’d like to see as well.

[@facelessandnameless]

They definitely are not appreciated enough. I think we should all give them the recognition they deserve. This was a great video! 👌

[@florianpoulin7108]

No, they aren't. I had a conversation with a colleague at lunchtime. For him, ABA was just Dr.J toying with everyone, and I had to tell him many facts that justify the value of ABA as a serious league. I especially told him about the Pacers and David Thompson's achievements in both NCAA, ABA and NBA.

[@CrazyxEnigma]

No they aren't. NBA for some reason is embarrassed to acknowledge it's existence like it's shameful for them there was another league that was as good as them if not better in the 70s and it's been almost fifty years since the merger.

[@cratwinterz200]

If you want to talk about the ABA I’m absolutely down to hear more. As for if their players are appreciated enough, absolutely not. Mind you, I’d probably say something similar about most player from that era or before.

[@terterman8585]

I think that either pre-merger stats should be kept separate, or ABA stats should be recognized, but that's just what I think

[@charlesjohnson536]

NOT ONLY DOES THE NFL RECOGNIZE AFL STATS .. THEY ARE ALSO ACKNOWLEDGED IN THE RECORD BOOKS .. THE NBA SHOULD DO THE SAME ..

[@justtimes9257]

agreed

[@samjacob1310]

Totally in agreement with this!

[@themasterofbasketball6994]

Except for championships my chargers won a championship in 1963 I think? And we have no rings in the record books 😞

[@stevenmichienzi9833]

PREACH 😄

[@fenixchief7]

Maybe if dudes didnt come into the NBA from the ABA and average 10 less points a game. Lets just count colleges stats too, same damn thing at that point.

[@TheDarkbluerock]

7.1 3pa on 36% (league average 30%) in 1969 is wild! This is todays average, but 55 years ago...

[@ralphsnabian1856]

you also have to consider this guy probably NEVER shot a 3 pointer until he was he in his late teens, where they started to appear in high school / unofficial settings.

[@mjsup1]

Dude Julius Erving is by far the most underrated superstar of all time IMO, that dude was the reason for the merger, and most of his STATs are in the ABA, with those he should be in the GOAT debate.

[@user-cn8nu6lq4w]

Yeah he deserves better. Honestly, next to Michael Jordan, the only player that can really make you go "wow" on a consistent basis.

[@darrelljones3965]

Facts

[@dooleyriggs4518]

@@user-cn8nu6lq4wyup and I believe MJ even said that he modeled his game after Dr. J which says a lot about his influence on the game

[@codyeble6764]

So underrated people don't even know how to spell his name...

[@mjsup1]

@@codyeble6764 No jackass just lack of double checking. Some people are so stupid they actually take spelling on a KZbin comment seriously.

[@cadecrusader3940]

Thank you Jonny! We as basketball fans should recognize ABA legends!

[@SYKOPATHeist]

Even with the bad attendance and teams folding, The ABA had tough competition....they played the NBA all stars twice only losing by 5 in 71 and 2 in 72....and had Multiple HOF careers and future NBA all stars AFTER the league went defunct. so yes....the ABA absolutely deserves to be recognized imo

[@youwontlikethistake]

So we should also include stats/accomplishments from EuroLeague, NBL, Taiwanese T1 League, China’s CBA, etc. right? Many NBA players could use the boost from playing in these inferior leagues as well, so why not account for all of them? We can’t. The ABA, like these other leagues I’ve named, was an inferior product with inferior talent across the board. Can’t let certain guys boost their numbers because they chose to spend time playing in a lesser league.

[@SYKOPATHeist]

​@@youwontlikethistake if the EuroLeague, NBL, Taiwanese T1 League, China’s CBA all merged with the NBA and brought their players and 4 teams each league....then yeah....count all them too.

[@youwontlikethistake]

@@SYKOPATHeist While I disagree with the overall point, I do appreciate the consistency on your end.

[@codyeble6764]

I thought they played more than that and the ABA actually won a fair share of them against the allstars

[@JAWrightonline]

​@@youwontlikethistakeIf the ABA was "an inferior product," explain why the first All-Star Game after the ABA-NBA Merger featured nine home-grown ABA players, the eventual NBA Champs leading scorer was an ABA refugee, five ABA refugees started between the two NBA Finalists, and why Denver and San Antonio won their respective established NBA divisions the next year?

[@MistaP13]

The NBA owes its way of play in this era to the ABA! To think that the NBA once looked down on not only the 3pt line but the whole league in general.😳 It was the ABA that had majority of the high flyers and great shooters before they merged in ’76. It’s only right they merge the stats and other accomplishments as well.

[@kyutpussyket6273]

Yes. Time to acknowledge the inventor of the alley oop, Jackie Moon!

[@Digital_Dude2000]

Don’t forget other Flint Tropics legends such as Clarence “Coffee Black” Withers, and Ed Monix, 4th place baby!

[@codyeble6764]

Your kinda right, he was loosely based on Wendell Ladner (no idea if I spelled that correctly) if you can find a video on his stories it would be quite an entertaining watch lol

[@MGPCycling]

💯, yes we should recognize their accomplishments statistically.

[@onlyfacts3178]

no..because those stats were inflated and with lower quality

[@JAWrightonline]

​@@onlyfacts3178Just like Michael Jordan through overexpansion after spring of 1988?

[@onlyfacts3178]

@@JAWrightonline STATS were inflated after expansion..expansion doesnt change stats...you are not allowed to travel or commit offensive fouls just because the other team is a new team.. NEW TEAMS in just 2 years became the TOP teams in the NBA. HEAT had several great players. HORNETS got LJ and ZO and MAGIC got SHAQ..SO you must be really dumb to make that argument..typical low iq fan.

[@onlyfacts3178]

@@JAWrightonline what doest expansion have to do with INFLATED stats? rules were the same for everyone and there was 4 BIG guys in the paint.. GSW won 73 games with 11 teams who wanted to lose on TANKING ERA.

[@JAWrightonline]

@onlyfacts3178 Overexpansion means there are 72 more players. At least 60 of which would not be in the league getting major minutes without expansion. Jordan and the Bulls feasted on that for a 72-win season and more individual scoring titles.

[@futureDreamer4]

The NBA knew what they were doing. They didn't want the ABA players to overshadow their own. ABA players stars should count.

[@samjacob1310]

Love this video Jonny! Yes the ABA stats/accomplishments should count in the overall NBA history. I think it should for 2 reasons: 1) for the history (many of us didn’t know these names from the ABA with the exception of a hand full of players. 2) Proper context and respect to the players. It’s unfortunate that the ABA isn’t properly recognized in the post-merger. But maybe us as fans can change that in our conversations. Thank you again Jonny!

[@realzachfluke1]

Totally. I couldn't agree more!!

[@Not_Basketball_Fanatic]

One name to settle the debate, Moses Malone

[@terterman8585]

Julius Erving

[@fenixchief7]

Moses Malone barely played and Dr J went from 30 points a game to 20 points a game from one leage to the other. Count your points at the local gym too.

[@T.H.E.O.R.Y.]

I agree, OP. Moses Malone is so, so sorely overlooked.

[@Amick44]

​@@fenixchief7Erving himself noted the ABA did not have the big, shot defensive centers he met in the NBA. Walton, Kareem, Lanier, even Thurmond, though he was a backup at that point. ABA was more free flowing and wide open. The NHL and AHL keep separate stats and accumulated totals. Like you see for NBA and ABA.

[@fredflux2738]

DR J, Gilmore, Gervin, Barnes, Barry, Hawkins, Brown/Moe, Beaty, Dampier, Silas, Lewis, Calvin, McGinnis, Issel, Daniels, Skywalker Thompson, Haywood… It’s wrong- that league is the reason we are here now.

[@colewrld901]

Absolutely. If we did Dr. J would technically have 3 rings and 2 finals mvps. Plus sum more mvps

[@Greidyelcuh]

Crazy how 2k24 count them but the nba doesn’t

[@owensmith2137]

Three championships, two finals MVP's, four league MVP's, and 30 thousand points!!!

[@ngkky]

@@owensmith2137And three league scoring titles.

[@juliothom2408]

I was young when the ABA was happening, but I remember some of the best basketball players like Dr. J and Rick Barry were in the ABA. Those accomplishments should count.

[@Amick44]

They do, sort of. The 2 leagues and stats are listed separately. Just as it is with the NHL and WHA. Who had Gretzky, Hull and Howe at times. Which I think is fine and fair.

[@Jimboverse000]

As a kid I loved the ABA ball. I got one for Christmas. I followed both leagues.

[@d.ferris3964]

ABA stats and accolades should absolutely be counted and treated the same. I’ve said this even before this current era of basketball…which offensively somewhat mimics the ABA (today’s era is even more loose offensively and less defensive). Along with that, I’ve said for a long time, Dr. J belongs on the NBA all time Top 10 list, where he falls is tough to say…very hard debating many of those exact placements (other than Jordan as the GOAT).

[@Sf75178]

When ever I look up stats on basketball reference I includ both when looking at all time lists

[@ralphsnabian1856]

Yes 100%. The ABA brought a completely new, offensive style to basketball that was virtually unheard of, and was the first real push towards the offensive-style that became the modern game. For anyone that struggles to watch NBA games from the 1960s or 70s, I'd suggest watching ABA footage from the 70s. The more fluid, spaced out basketball (not to mention the 3 point line, with some underrated snipers playing in that league) will give you a whole new appreciation for that era of players, while genuinely being a more entertaining product IMO. A study of 70s ball will emphasize how players were forced to adapt different styles of basketball depending on the rule set, but mercifully lets you understand this in parallel through the lens of 2 leagues, as opposed to nowadays where its only 1 league evolving. The NBA is lucky the ABA came around in a climate where major TV deals that could elevate leagues were far and few in between. If the ABA withered the 70s, I believe it could have stayed around much longer.

[@artemiyanosov1834]

This channel needs to be archived extensively, factual and unbiased content up to the viewer to draw their conclusions, covers all aspects of nba history and ongoing. I love this channel, hope you never stop 👍

[@musicandmagic909]

ABA ball > NBA ball. When I go basketball shopping, I'm always looking for a red, white, and blue ball. Dr. J was the man, and the ABA also has some bonkers stories. The more the ABA gets covered, the more respect it will gain. Sports fans from the time already know, but since the NBA hasn't preserved the legacy of the ABA, it's getting forgotten. You should collaborate with Uncle Hays on some ABA content!

[@joepohlen1662]

Friend of the family was a scorekeeper for the nuggets and we used to use his tickets a lot from 73 to 76. The ABA had better talent in their starters than the NBA, but I must admit they did not have the depth. It was so exciting when Dr J would come to town. He was amazing around the basket but the most amazing thing was his incredible speed running the floor baseline to baseline with that incredible afro pumping like smoke from a steam train. The shows he and David Thompson would put on were incredible!

[@Splitwave23]

Hell yes! Most of these legends are often overlooked, underrated and under appreciated.

[@catherinelynnfraser2001]

Some more ABA content would be welcome. I wasn’t around to witness the era but there were a lot of greats that deserve attention. I think combined records should be included but a footnote and an asterisk.

[@MrReese]

These Louie stats are insane for the time 🤯.

[@claytonphillips85]

If the ABA and NBA didn't merge there probably wouldn't be an NBA today, so of course we should acknowledge the ABA.

[@williampowell9366]

This is one of the best videos and topics I've seen in a long time about basketball. I knew of guys like Louie Dampier and Spencer Haywood. I didn't know about Louie's elite 3-point shooting even amongst today standards and Spencer Haywood's rookie season in the ABA

[@eljefe6161]

They should absolutely be appreciated, for what they did for that league as well as the influence they had on the NBA, now this is not me saying that ABA accomplishments should be included when you're talking about the greatest NBA players of all time but as far as when you're talking about that individual's career yes

[@LeviAntics]

Yes we should definitely recognize ABA legends

[@jp3813]

Unfortunately, ABA stats usually involve the player's prime before they played at an older age in the NBA. The closest comparison we can do is between their last season in the ABA and their first season in the NBA. Dr J: ABA (1975-76) = 29.3 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 5.0 apg, 2.5 spg, 1.9 bpg, .507 fg%, 38.6 mp, 84 games NBA (1976-77) = 21.6 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 3.7 apg, 1.9 spg, 1.4 bpg, .499 fg%, 35.9 mp, 82 games

[@yanncarduner4516]

Absolutely ,the ABA was a very innovative league with elite players

[@JerrellXotiikClemmons]

We should take into account both leagues

[@markjackson6431]

the ABA and the NBL merged with the NBA….both should be counted. their accomplishments, the accolades, and the records

[@bigpharmasports9120]

In all honesty, the ABA really made the nba what it was the next 20 years. It wasnt an appendage but rather an augmentation of a struggling nba product. I also think that while larry and magic are credited with saving the nba, and rightly so, i also think that without the merger that magic and bird wouldnt even have the chance to save professional basketball. This is not even mentioning the impact aba legenda like barry, malone, and dr j had on the game and their influence on other future nba legends

[@rizqirahmad5348]

there was an exhibitions game between ABA team vs NBA team, the ABA won 79 while the NBA team won 76 overall. the league gap wasn't that huge between both, so if NFL did the acknowledge AFL record, the NBA should acknowledge the ABA record too

[@gugga2745]

this has nothing to do with the video i just like to say this bc i think its very cool, if u watch the last ever aba game there r 2 seperate times where the ball bounces to the side of the court after a whistle and this kid picks up the ball and shoots it. thats my dad. related to the video, i think we should recognize ABA legends the same why we should recognize EuroLeague or Liga ACB legends. They may or may not have been good enough to play in the nba, but either way they are the players behind the legendary moments of basketball and basketball is a lot more than just the NBA

[@sidwalker4194]

I was 15 when the ABA started (1967). One huge difference in the leagues was the ABAs' lack of superstar centers in a time when serious contenders were built around centers. The best ABA center was Mel Daniels. A 6'9" Willis Reed type center for the Pacers. With that said, no issues recognizing their accomplishments.

[@jonnyarnett]

I love hearing perspectives from people like you, because I obviously wasn’t around for it. I knew there was a difference between the styles, and the ABA was apparently a much more flashy product, but I never really considered the difference between the Centers, and that makes sense. Also makes sense why some people didn’t take the ABA seriously if they didn’t have as many amazing Centers, because as you know, back then almost everyone thought Centers were needed to win.

[@sidwalker4194]

@@jonnyarnett Truly enjoy your videos, great mix of league history & current events. I've been following you for some time. Keep up the great work.

[@bobfitten5792]

Hell yeah they should count! These guys brought flare, grace and respect to the game and made it more interesting! Give them their props!

[@Mustapha1963]

Terrific video. Not long ago, I would have come down on the side of not including ABA stats in the official record books. However, I recently read that Major League Baseball is going to include the stats of Negro League players in their official record books, so maybe that's the start of a broadening of what stats count. As far as just how competitive the ABA was against the NBA, I'll refer to a great book about the ABA: "Loose Balls", by Terry Pluto. He relates two anecdotes on this subject: 1) if you were a fan of basketball in the 1980s and 1990s, you might remember the name Hubie Brown. He was coach of the Atlanta Hawks and of the Memphis Grizzlies and is in the Hall of Fame. When asked what the best team he ever coached was, the says, without hesitation, the Kentucky Colonels. When a HOF coach who has seen fifty years of basketball gives an opinion, I'll listen to it. 2) the NBA and ABA played exhibition games against each other for a few years in the early 1970s. For any number of reasons, it's fair to say that the ABA took those games more seriously than did the NBA. NBA personnel downplayed the facts that the ABA won almost as often as did the NBA teams, and the NBA teams played their regular season starters regular season minutes- so maybe they took the games a bit more seriously than they wanted folks to think.

[@elliota.1063]

Yes, we definitely should. As commented below, the NFL recognizes AFL stats. The ABA had some of the greatest players ever, and they should officially get their due.

[@Nihilus_Outis]

It is more than fair that everything done in the ABA should be recognized as part of the NBA canon. Once both leagues merged, the ABA became part of the NBA and its history and legacy.

[@affableman]

Sure we should. I was one of the fortunate ones to see ABA games. What is now the NBA was ABA style back in the day. The three point line and a lot more started with the ABA and its first commissioner was George Miken, the first dominant center in the NBA.

[@alex4833]

Awesome video, Jonny. It was great getting to learn more about the ABA and the stars that played in it. Since some of the ABA teams merged into the NBA and because many ABA stars also joined the NBA (and I also heard how the ABA would also influence the NBA and shaped how it is today), I would argue that ABA stats should be counted. Have a great week :).

[@southpaw3473]

As a young teen ballplayer I was lucky enough to be in the fan's orbit of the Nets with Dr. J. I had grown up a Knicks fan (my dad was an original Knick and the '70 championship team is still my all-time favorite team) but those Nets teams spoke to me. Poetry was watching the Doctor dunk on Artis Gilmore . Before music overcame basketball as my passion, the core group of kids I played ball with played on every schoolyard court on the CT coast. The ABA felt like our game, fast, improvisational and well, fun! I loved ABA basketball and some of the best hoop I ever saw was at the Nassau Coliseum. The talent level was comparable, as evidenced by how many former ABA players had careers in the NBA. Not all, but quite a few. I would include the stats but not the championships or MVPs.

[@dwaynewade3711]

I think yes because the goat debates would be interesting. Dr J Being amongst the best. Mose malone being considered for top 5 center. Spencer haywood being considered as the best rookie and more!

[@moonblast12]

I can remember in the 70s getting the Nets and Knicks on WOR channel 9 in NY. Back then we tuned in to watch the Red White and Blue ball and the Doctor. The Knicks even with A couple of championships, with Clyde , the Pearl and Willis were an afterthought. The WNBA needs to take a look at what the NBA did during this area in order to survive.

[@2ndand19]

I remember my father telling me about how great Moses Malone was. He ended up acknowledging MJ as the best he'd ever seen play, but he never stopped talking about Moses' greatness - and doing it straight out of high school which was much different at the time. My dad had me convinced that Moses Malone could do much more than part the red sea. Being young, of course I tried to clap back about some things he told me only to understand years later how right he was. I wish he was still around so I could show him the respect Moses gets (even if it's not enough) from future generations. He's likely one of many who saw Moses' greatness in real time and attempted to explain to the next generation how special a player he was. I guess I'm not really adding much to the conversation now that I think about it. I enjoy your channel and I'm glad your father recorded all those games which made you curious enough about the history of the game that you would later on try to do it justice. I wish my late father and I could have watched some of your videos together followed by discussions, et cetera. History makes today's game stronger imo, and young forward.

[@ScottJS]

I've been watching this channel for years and it's one of my favourites because of the focus on the history of basketball. I like to think I know my fair share of history about basketball, as well as the more current stuff, but these videos help me expand my knowledge even further! 😊 Keep up the excellent content!!!

[@Westlyn80]

Yes !!!! Those stats and accomplishments must be added to their resumes. Might seem crazy as a reference point but in wrestling( omg) any where those guys go their accolades follow. The nba should be shamed hard for not doing so in the first place.

[@rickb2432]

I grew up watching the ABA Pacers and NBA Cincinnati Royals. The rivalry between the Pacers and both the Kentucky Colonels and Virginia Squires made for some of the most exciting games of that era in basketball.

[@justtimes9257]

absolutely they should

[@dwightburns6699]

keep it coming brother❤ I love your content

[@hernanbenitez2828]

Yes they should. I keep a list of all time scorers with playoffs and regular season combined of NBA and ABA. Erving would be top 10 easily

[@jacksonorwin2989]

Great video and introspection

[@mikhaeldavis6180]

YES THEY SHOULD! Yjis has shone so much lihht on the overall careers of these players...and i am sure there would be a few more that moves up

[@chicagobulls1019]

Thank you bruh for this video..my exact sentiments

[@cantpleasonist]

7:18 it says Erving won 2 championships and 3 MVPs in the NBA when he actually won those in the ABA.

[@tyronetnj79]

You’re legit the best basketball channel💯

[@markdc31]

I luv the fact that you did this. Hopefully you can do more. The ABA was amazing while it lasted, but didn’t have the best sports business people running it. For those of us who grew up in the 70’s, Dr. J was the man. And he’s just one of many former ABA players in the Hall of Fame. He actually had 3 ABA championships and 1 NBA championship. He lost in the ‘77, ‘80 and ‘82 NBA Finals to Bill Walton’s Blazers and Magic/Kareem’s Lakers. The ABA also started the slam dunk contest. The NBA would be significantly less interesting and exciting without the dunks and threes but the NBA was reluctant to add them. I doubt the NBA will ever fully recognize the ABA and its contributions as they don’t even respect veteran players, never mind the retired old school players. They’re primarily concerned with young up and coming stars and social media and the like. It would be great if you made more ABA content. Get the facts correct though. Peace.

[@DerrickMills92]

The ABA and NBA used to play against each other in an All-Star game. The ABA has more wins against the NBA during their all-star game competitions.

[@UnconventionalReasoning]

The question of combining NBA and ABA stats illustrates the importance of analysis over statistics. Should the counting stats be combined: no. Should the counting stats be considered for the player's legacy and place in basketball history: yes. This is especially significant because the building in Springfield is the "Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame", inclusive of the NBA, NCAA, WNBA, ABA, FIBA, etc. They are not all equal, but they are all relevant.

[@Mikey-wf9py]

Those are my favorite players, the nobodies or the underdogs or guys that can't really shoot but they do everything else. I like them too. I like to use them in video games too specifically... One of the games not going to name them. They like to use random players too and make really good cards out of them

[@zachmartin1458]

Catching game 6 of the 1976 ABA Finals. 4 Hall of Famers in the starting lineups.

[@jimcarter4425]

The ABL introduced the 3 point shot. The Eastern League picked it up next followed by the NABL. The ABA was the 4th to use the shot.

[@terrenceliburd8655]

Spencer Haywood in a two- three year span played better than anybody picked the ball up First he avgs 16 a game with .721 % in the 1968 gold mefal Olympics Right after that he leads the nation in scoring and rebounds for the University of Detroit and then he comes to o the ABA leads that league in scoring and rebounding and wins both ROY and MVP

[@zachmartin1458]

Pretty sure Louie played all 9 years of the ABA. I was a Colonels fan. It was insane to watch him.

[@christophercox936]

Yes. When I was a kid Dr J inspired us the most. If I could be like J. Without him there might be no Mike. MJ is the greatest but nobody did that underneath the basket move like the Doc.

[@ngkky]

Sports Illustrated's Oct 25, 1976 issue on the NBA-ABA Merger with Julius Erving and Dave Cowens on its cover. "What is important now is that the New York Nets, or somebody, guarantee us a look into the future by coming to terms with the best player on earth, Julius Erving." - Sports Journalist Curry Kirkpatrick Curry Kirkpatrick was the senior sportswriter for SI Magazine in the 1970s.

[@realsciencerhythm]

Yes they should acknowledge that, just different set of rules (3 pointers particularly) is perhaps making it difficult to even up the field.

[@AndrewSBaker]

That's an awesome DrJ dunk to end on. I think that the only real difficulty is that the 3 point line was introduced at different times across the two leagues, which impacts the scoring. But I do have one question: Were other stats, like blocks and steals, calculated across both evenly?

[@frankincensemerchant1284]

Hell yes we should recognize the ABA it has such a rich history with Basketball and gave the NBA a lot of great things.

[@Flametree1492]

Question; in baseball do stats transfer from the AL to the NL? If so I think ABA stats should carry over! ABA players just as good as NBA players from the very beginning of the merger and dominated as well.

[@ngkky]

If you were to include his 5 ABA seasons, Julius Erving would be the third player in history, following Wilt and Kareem (and the first non-center) to reach 30k career regular season points when he retired in 1987. Also his 3 straight ABA regular season MVPs in the mid 70s joins only Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, and Larry Bird to win 3 MVPs in a row.

[@redxronnie4226]

I think they should. The biggest reason being that A LOT of the things in the current day NBA such as rules and traditions were all implemented by the ABA. The ABA was essentially the nba as we know it before we knew it.

[@dionysise5008]

Absolutely

[@bowtieguy377]

My first basketball that I played with was a red white and blue ABA one. They did not get as much TV coverage as the NBA but from what I saw growing up, lots of great players. Many were drafted by both leagues and some signed with the ABA for more money upfront. Probably one reason why they went bust. While in existence, they would ultimately influence the NBA to become a bit more entertaining for fans. Four of the teams were absorbed into the NBA when the ABA folded and those franchises have won NBA titles and Conference Championships. Yes, those stats should be counted as there was significant parity in terms of talent. A number of Hall of Famers played a chunk of their careers in the ABA and then went on to great success in the NBA.

[@Says_me]

I gotta say YES to stats and league accolades (AS, All-NBA). Individual accolades are problematic (such as MVP and Stats titles, like scoring).

[@justinmunson1412]

YES!

[@Youngkel95]

7:51 yes it should count. You would really get the picture of how great some of these guys were

[@user-vw1vf5cw7d]

Of course!

[@jamiekelley4076]

I think it would be okay to include ABA stats personally. It's cool to see videos about it and bringing attention to the ABA. I find these quick dives into history really awesome. I don't think it really matters that much at this point if you officially combine them now or not. It was a league that existed for 9 years and merged with the NBA in 1976 which is almost a 50 years ago. Most of the people who would have cared are aging out of the world sadly. Which is how history works, especially in sports. Eventually time moves on and only a handful of talent will get remembered from any era. Also it isn't like the NBA/ABA merged stats are hidden. Plenty of basketball stat sites have NBA/ABA combined all time records you can see. So I don't think it would really ignite a lot of new discussions. I don't think Dr. J for instance would really move up and down that much on people's current lists. The only thing that would be cool is too see the faces on the players from the era getting to see their accomplishments recognized officially.

[@kabtown5631]

Great video, but to not recognize Jackie Moon from the Flint Tropics is slightly criminal

[@lukepayne7225]

A common critique of the ABA is that there was less talent and competition. But that's rather misleading. Clearly many ABA players were among the best hoopers in the world. So while those guys were in another league, the talent and competition for BOTH leagues was diluted! I don't think we need to merge the stats, but we need to recognize that while ABA players are overlooked, the greatest NBA players from 1967-1976 are ALSO unfavorably benefited because they also didn't have the top competition. (hypothetically... Would Dave Cowens be an NBA MVP if he had more competition from the likes of Artis Gilmore?) Very interesting question and great video, Jonny!

[@mightynas1457]

Yesssssss it should count

[@tien315]

I’m a Nets fan, so yes

[@adamm2787]

That's always been a problem when comparing pre and post merger eras. It's hard to acknowledge pre merger records and championships when there were only 8-10 teams in each league and almost all of them went to the playoffs. I think Bill Russell's first 5 championships were when the NBA only had 8 teams and 6 of those teams went to the post-season. That makes a championship MUCH easier to win. That being said, if we are going to count pre-merger NBA stats then we absolutely should count ABA stats, especially for players that played in both leagues.

[@Havoc0606]

With an asterisk, I'm okay with adding ABA totals to the all time lists. Dr. J is a top 15 basketball player of all time, especially if you consider his time in the ABA.

[@GTkGaeT]

Obviously they should be recognized. And the ones from the previous merger too, I mean the merger with the NBL at the end of the forties. What about a video about three points shoot history?

[@benberry792]

Seeing as how the NBA included the 3pt shot, Dunk Contest, etc. yeah they really should include stats. It was a merger more so than an acquisition. Not including foreign league stats when those players come over is different, this was a joining of American basketball players and their leagues.

[@ironman0370]

They ABSOLUTELY should count. Especially considering today's game where athleticism is focused on, the ABA by far had the more athletic players in general.

[@housesports000]

I firmly believe the ABA held around half of America's basketball superstars and stars and the impact thay they immediately made on the NBA should be a testament to that

[@Joe7_OSRS]

I think they should count and be included in the totals of their resumes/league records. The ABA had some of the best basketball players in the world at the time so competition is a no brainer in comparison to the NBA of the time.

[@GloriousKev]

They should 100% count

[@bruceharrison8160]

Yes yes yes!😊

[@camaradiop3731]

You know the answer is an emphatic yes; the ABA all-stars were very competitive against the NBA all-stars in contests.

[@realthursty4953]

It was supposed to be an ABA/NBA MERGER, not an absorption. One thing that people don't seem realize is that the ABA was bringing in the best talent of guys who didn't play out their COllege eligibility as the NBA required; bringing them in under the "hardship" rule. Imagine if the NBA required all their players to finish their college eligibilty before they could come into the leage now days. Point being that the NBA thought they were so much better than the ABA but 5 of the 10 starters after the merger were former ABA players.

[@Darius_Forreal]

ABA stats and achievements (i would even argue championships as well) should be counted because the 2 leagues merged and they were both comparable. If we can recognize championships from the 60s when there were 4 teams making the playoffs then we should recognize the ABA being that the whole league became a part of the NBA

[@PoliticusRex632]

Should recognize ALL legends, period.

[@11DowningStreet]

i dont think aba and nba stats should be combined as they were achieved against different competitions in entirely different leagues. i think they should be included in the overall résumé as separate achievements for sure but we shouldn't combine them, that would be pretty dumb

[@Noob_Guy2k]

72nd to 8 insane

[@iggysup]

A question this rises for me is, should we also recognise other leagues? The name that comes to mind immediately is Arvydas Sabonis. His best years were not in the NBA, and most people don't really know how good he was. I think all these things should be recognised, but I don't know if merging stats is the way to do it. In a way that could even start to erase ABA history, since most people don't know how different both leagues were in style, and them seeing them as a single stat might make it look like they were the same thing.