Should We Seek to Change the World? A Conversation with Marianne Williamson

A Course in Miracles famously says “Seek not to change the world” and even declares “There is no world!” What, then, do we do as Course students about trying to save and heal the world? This question came vividly to the fore when bestselling author and Course teacher Marianne Williamson ran for President of the United States in 2019 and continues to strike a chord to this day.
Within the Course community, some students see involvement in the world as an abandonment of Course principles while others feel it is an extension of them. But what does the Course itself teach?
In this episode of Exploring A Course in Miracles, Circle of Atonement founder Robert Perry and executive director Emily Bennington discuss this topic with Marianne herself.
#spiritualawakening #spiritualpodcasts #mariannewilliamson
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[@VanEazy]

Brilliant!!! ❤❤❤❤ All three of you are a joy to listen to!

[@messenjah71]

From lesson 23: ²There is no point in lamenting the world. ³There is no point in trying to change the world. ⁴It is incapable of change because it is merely an effect. ~W-23.2

[@monterock6726]

I really enjoyed and appreciated this conversation! Thank you for having it. I have a few comments to add. Projection = perception = interpretation. No two people will ever share the exact same interpretation of the projection. Thought always comes first, therefore, thought is senior to form and action. Thinking is an action (doing). The curriculum of ACIM does not impart data. Instead, it gradually, incrementally unwinds one from the pretense of being an individuated, separate thinking self to a state of BEING. ACIM is not linear, it is a spiral. In the beginning at the nucleus of the spiral its tail is incredibly compressed and dense and the interpretations here are very solid and often asserted, with force, as being incontrovertible facts. As one continues on the journey the tail gradually loosens and expands as do the interpretations. Speaking of interpretations...in lesson 42 there is a statement that, for me, puts any and all interpretations into a viable perspective - "Your passage through time and space is not at random. You cannot but be in the right place at the right time. Such is the strength of God."

[@danpatton3891]

We can help those whose egos are already worn down or small by situations in this world, like poverty, broken bodies, depression, etc.

[@PaulWest-MasteringACIM]

I enjoyed the first portion where everyone seemed to be on the same page. But it seemed later to devolve into making suffering real and trying to atone for it, saving the world for the sake of ordinary social causes etc, the usual level-confused stuff. The view that the physical world has to turn into some kind of place where everyone is getting along in order to have a happy dream. That's now what the happy dream is at all.

[@s.webbsentell1411]

A brave woman you are ! ;-) Namaste

[@kathirosecrawford3743]

My understanding is that the Holy Spirit is the one that sees both the Truth of who we are, the Love of God and the illusion, however, the statement made by Marianne that "God registers our pain" does not register with me. God is Love, there is no opposite, and as such cannot 'register our pain' which would be an opposite to Love. Blessings to you all and all the love that you bring.

[@rmschindler144]

I agree with you that God does not register our pain . perhaps this is a controversial opinion, I don’t know . let’s call it ‘just an opinion’, then . but it makes sense to me that God, as you say, is Love, and so has no concept of pain whatsoever . not sure why this is an important point (-maybe you can tell me, if called); I just felt moved to reply to you

[@peacelovejoy8786]

A Course in Miracles is a self - study, one-on-one metamorphosis into Christ done at the level of the mind. The crucifixion was an extreme teaching lesson. It is not necessary for you to go through it in order to learn from it. Great podcast full of nuggets! As long as continue believing I'm here, I never stop learning. I love my mighty companions and look forward to having Marianne back..God bless us everyone 🙏❤✨😊

[@Giordano07193]

Thank you very much for the nice conversation. I live in Germany. And I also have to realize, unfortunately, that the main statements of the course readers (for me they are not students) are always reduced to illusion and that you have brought into your dream. This automatically lacks compassion and understanding of the other. Because the other is only my "projection". What a fatal misunderstanding. I will be brief.... for me personally means to live the course, to see everything in this world as to the son / sisterhood. This also means to develop kindness and compassion for everything that "lives".... It is a course in spirit training not in how do I become an egoist. So I live the dream as if it were not. The point is not to identify too much with what is transient. To release that which is stuck. Only who looks at illusions can also forgive them.... What I have experienced (I am no longer in any forum) is to shift everything to the illusion level. That itself is EGO. That is not how I understand the course. There is nothing about passivity in the course. And I know the course also quite well. But I also see that the course is used to get out of one's own way... that is certainly not the way. Because anyone who says there is neither body nor world, thus acting is led ad absurdum does not experience it. We would not be here if we did not believe in the form. So I have to accept myself to go beyond myself.... To say I am the son of God is only a striking statement. Who experiences it ? Who believes it? I have to start with me and not go and stay in self-denial. Thus the course does not become liberating but a fetter to the world..... This can lead to a discrepancy in which one can no longer cope. One becomes ill. Because one cannot overcome this apparent discrepancy. This is not a course teaching. For me there are almost no "course teachers". Because everybody only wants to "sell" his concept. The course addresses us where we are (spiritually). Many blessings!

[@carolm3055]

I believe that you listened to this video because you do want to change. Take your time. It may take awhile. I had a wonderful Course teacher and group. Hope that you will find your way to believing that this world is an illusion. We are living in this dream; so we do need to take care of ourselves. I like that Marianne said that we can make this a happy dream. I think it's hell we live in. I work daily to connect more with Love 💕 Not sure why my illusion is full of hate. That worries me. Last comment.

[@JaneSiet]

Thank you so much for doing this podcast. I’ve wanted to hear Marianne explain her politics and “seek not to change the world” since she ran for president. Thank you all so much.

[@theself5738]

Well it can only be one of two options. Either her ego was trying to be an activist and try to change the world for attention or the Holy Spirit guided her to run for president and she followed that and her presence on the world stage brought ACIM into the global consciousness. I cannot assume another’s intentions so I will give the interpretation of this to the Holy Spirit so that he can see it truly

[@crsnyorg]

This was another wonderful episode! I would love to see Robert and Emily follow up with a written article. Thank you! - Chris @ CRS

[@yasuakikudo4817]

Best Conversation of the Year 2021 😄

[@jh3choi]

Beautiful! Thank you. ॐ~

[@paulcowdroynon-noxiouschan3971]

Superb 🥰🙏

[@dr.rohitgour795]

Thanks for sharing… really Marianne Williamson’s understanding is so unique and builds bridges…And So I love Robert’s books too😊🙏 Marienne Williamson was my introduction to the Course and I still turn to be books for Guidance

[@staffan144]

I haven't watched this video yet, but every time I have seen Marianne Williamson talk about a course in miracles in the past, she misrepresents it and is not talking about a course in miracles.

[@bradisaacson4656]

My path has never been social activism. I have always been drawn, since early childhood, to the communication of the reality of form, sacred space and non-dual mind that has been accomplished via my life in architecture. Ever since I was 5 years old that has been the over arching theme of my life. There is so much I could say about this but suffice it to say that what the course has communicated to me is that the infinity of Self is absolutely communicated to all brothers as I constantly remember to engage with forgiveness. And that forgiveness is the communication of not only the love of Christ and God but the change of mind about the world of limitation, which includes the limitations that are communicated via scientific materialism. This may sound dry and aloof but for me and in my journey with Christ it has been the path of inclusion and healing. There is not enough space to discuss this further. However, I can say that the vertical communication from God (Revelation) is, as the course says, realized completely through the total horizontal engagement with all via the stand in the sacred space of forgiveness. So, my life has been drawn to the the Love which draws no distinctions and stands in the Truth that is beautifully expressed by the Forgotten Song. Forgive my rambling and disjointed thoughts, but Marianne's path and strong stand for social activism forced me to consider the relevance of my path in Christ. I am satisfied that the Holy Spirit uses my path as my vehicle to Truth for everyone and every heart.

[@keithdelaere4625]

At Level 1 there is nothing to do, but at the level of form there are often things to do, but we mustn’t forget our ultimate level 1 existence or non-existence. Lol😂

[@emilyhager461]

“We must save the world.” Part II of the workbook Section 3. What is the World? page 413 paragraph 5 statement 4 of blue book prior to Lesson 241

[@messenjah71]

Good observation. However, "Change" and "save" are not the same. Changing the world implies replacing one illusion for another. "Saving" implies forgiveness, seeing through the eyes of Christ.

[@cooknmark8362]

When I first saw the title “Should We Seek to Change the World?” I thought it reasonable that the discussion would focus on the word “Seek.” This was not so. As a student my personal interpretation has never been concerned with the Changing of the World part, rather the egoic Seeking after it and Seeking the attention of being The One who is changing the world. Thus, being somebody…like the title “Miracle Worker.” Yes, that ego is a tricky one! “Help, Holy Spirit! Please lead me from the unreal to the Real."

[@laurieriley7736]

When I see how the ego uses my teaching the Course to aggrandize itself, I say to it, "OK ego, you do your thing if you must; I'm going to shine my light anyway." The ego never disappears; we just have to learn to give it no credence. The Course DOES clearly tell us to shine our light. Don't let the ego make you think that's egotistical!

[@cooknmark8362]

@@laurieriley7736 I appreciate your reflection Laurie! Teaching (shining our light) and learning go hand in hand. "As you teach so shall you learn."

[@JaneSiet]

That was awesome!!!

[@cooknmark8362]

With the bloody and cruel history of Christianity, I feel that students of the Course would of course be sensitive to taking ACIM literally as countless innocent souls have been traumatized and killed over people taking the Bible literally! Robert is pointing to - we should take ACIM to mean what the words say. Please understand “Read what it says” could send shivers down the spine of a student of the Course in context with Christianity's history of heartless and one-sided approach towards "Changing/Saving the World!" ACIM students understandably fear taking it literally similar to Bible students taking the Bible literally. This said, I was relieved at Robert’s sensitive awareness over acknowledging “that one can…be deeply learned in the Course and totally dedicated to it and come to an opposite conclusion than what we’ve said here. I don’t want to suggest that everyone who’s come to the opposite conclusion just hasn’t really paid attention.” I think Jesus would offer a similar balm of compassion. These two said, I’m grateful for this learning experience CoA has offered!

[@beholden1663]

Well said, I think everyone has an Individual curriculum led by the Holy Spirit. No Course student or teacher has the right interpretation which is limited by our human intellect. That said, I think most ACIM students share basic commonalities.

[@keltonjeter7603]

Marianne was about to saying two great things and it cut out. Twice. Really wish we had the whole thing. Good conversation though.

[@JudeMalachi]

Admittedly I am new to the Course, and what I am going to say may not so welcome. In any event, it's just my opinion. Although, I believe it's important and reflects reality. And if the Course is real, meaning that it really has come from the Holy Spirit then I understand this as being something which is necessarily true. I can't say that Marianne Williamson wasn't told by the Holy Spirit to run for election (obviously!), but it's hard to understand how even if she was successful that would mean much terms of affecting actual change within the world. It's a fantasy to believe that the position of the President of U.S. has any genuine power outside of the egoistic structure of our world. And so if you really want to engage in the way she's talking about engaging the world, then consider first investigating and then joining the Baha'i Administrative Order (that was my thought while listening to this, anyway). In terms of spiritual evolution of this planet, the Baha'i Administrative Order is the nominative corporate avenue in which such a change will come. That's what the Baha'i Revelation is for and, in my completely personal opinion, how it fits in with the Course. So this would be particularly relevant for those who feel inspired to participate in the social change the way Ms. Williamson has articulated. I don't mean to infringe on anyone's current spiritual practice. In that sense, whatever one's formal religious commitments (or if they have none), are same as any other in terms of one's personal spiritual realization. But no past religion is the corporate future of humanity (because, it's already past). The way this was expressed to me when I was younger before I formally declared as Baha'i, is through a friend who once causally remarked, "you know Buddhism can't save the world." I thought about that and found it to be true. Buddhism flourished thousand years ago and it will never flourish like that again (the spritual force that instigated that floushing has long since dissapated). It might be a great practice for someone personally (and I still continue my samatha-vippassana practice), but it's not-in my belief anyway-the corporate spiritual future of humanity. Like I said, I am new to the course, and so I don't how the Course works in relationship with the Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, but if they are both from the Holy Spirit, then there has to be a synergy between them. Nevertheless, because the Course is open to people of all religious faiths, there might be some etiquette regarding the separation between one’s personal religious beliefs and forums like this which are dedicated to mutal disscussion about the Course, which I might have just unknowing violated. So, if I have then I apologize and indulge your forgiveness for the trespass.

[@laurieriley7736]

The Course says that all true spiritual paths are valid. It's not that only Bahai is the way, or only the Course is the way, or only some other spiritual path is the way. They are ALL the way. The Course just happens to be a way that speaks to many of us very clearly. Other paths speak clearly to others. No judgment is necessary on which is "best".

[@rmschindler144]

I glean from your comment three things: 1) sorry if my opinion isn’t welcome; 2) Marianne as president probably won’t effect change; 3) Bahá’í is an entity which probably will affect change . as to (1), I hope you feel welcome to express your opinions, your intuitions . (2) the thought that a president can’t effect change is simply an expression of your particular limited beliefs . who knows if she might effect change as president? . if we’re speaking of transformation, we can’t go on probabilities, we can’t presume to predict the future based on the past . (3) this is the thing I most wanted to reply to . I sense your enthusiasm that is associated with Bahá’í and all the good it can & will do on earth . and this I find inspires me and warms my heart . in short: I’m glad you’re up to what you’re up to, and contributing to an entity that’s going to make things better for all of us

[@willchristie2650]

The problem for me is that I have studied much channeled material deeply. But when I encounter practitioners of that material, e.g., Seth, RA Law of One, Bashar, and COURSE IN MIRACLES, I find the most superficial self-serving understanding that primarily serves the EGO. I see people thumping their sacred book while ignoring common sense opportunities to LOVE and share. The term BLISS NINNY comes to mind, which describes (in my opinion) the vast majority of New Age students. They seek to find spiritual rationalizations for doing absolutely nothing but staying in their little self-centered bubble and consider themselves "enlightened". If your spiritual source or discipline does not require you to step outside of your comfort zone, then something is seriously wrong. It is true that Jesus taught us to go into our closet (or whatever) to pray. But he didn't say we should stay there all the time!

[@aaroncarson1770]

I think in this interview, Marianne is highlighting exactly what you're saying. "I don't think the Holy Spirit means for us to become couch potatoes".

[@sheilakelly5601]

Marianne, it's unfortunate that you've been so maligned by many in the ACIM community. I love you and I wonder why you always say "the" Course in Miracles. Why not say "A" Course in Miracles?

[@theself5738]

Tara Singh says “The course in miracle”- it irked me a little but I realized it’s my own judgment I need to look at

[@deborahhebblethwaite1865]

The language is religious in nature. Simply watch your thoughts. Understand through experience. Recognize the observer… that which is the I that you refer to…. I enjoy some of your exercises but the language can be troublesome for me. Do nothing means do not judge someone and seek to change them or the world. Just change yourself. And STOP thinking🇨🇦🙏