Should We Trust the Women's World Record from the 2024 Chicago Marathon?

[@makethebestofwhatsaround3113]

Mr. Burfoot should remember Hitchen’s Razor: What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

[@sergelu]

A quick phone call to Salazar with a prepaid phone is all it takes

[@dylanwynroberts]

From recollection, Lance never tested positive neither. My opinion is that the testing is running behind the doping.

[@Daveyboyroy]

Mr Burfoot says running is different to cycling, in that the distance is always the same in marathons, same courses etc, but what he doesn't acknowledge is that in a cycling race, all the riders are doing the same course. The elements are the same, the inclines are the same. So it's a fair comparison from Jessy.

[@PerryScanlon]

It would be interesting to hear opinions on weather conditions affecting Jakob's 3000 meter record. 85 degrees F. 13 mph wind with gusts up to 24mph.

[@krytopi]

Kipchoge's sub 2 seems almost effortless compared to this that's for sure technical doping. Look at Ruth's effort the grit of her teeth the gasping of her breath compared to Kipchoge's sub 2 you'll know what to look for.

[@Asd12370]

Thanks for this vid. Loved the discussion. It is certainly suspect. Even with drugs, it sounds remarkable to cut 14.5 minutes off a marathon time of 2:24 in 6 months. All the EPO in the world surely couldn’t do that. Bonkers.

[@perfidy1103]

22:58 I guess the counter point to this analysis is it's looking at how impressive the record is, not who ran it. If i had run Kiptum's record marathon I'd be assigned the same points score, but as someone who's never run sub-3 that would be much less believable than Kiptum running it. I can't speak for Amby, but I assume his problem isn't with them potential that a woman ran sub 2:10, but rather than he doesn't believe Chepngetich ran sub 2:10 clean.

[@nicholas5396]

Eliud Kipchoge ran a 2:08:38 in August 2021 then in March of 2022 ran a 2:02:39 which is greater than thr 5 minutes Ruth increased. Similarly he ran a 2:09:23 in Boston in April 2023 before running a blistering 2:02:42 a few months later in Berlin (over 7 minute increase). Saying this to show large gaps in performances race to race does happen.

[@marathonhandbook]

If you’re quoting his past results you should include each of his previous PRs, not just his slower recent races. He ran 2:04s for years, and a 2:03 in London in 2016. The difference here is there is one single huge leap.

[@nicholas5396]

@marathonhandbook this is true but she is also newer to the distance, and just like a lot of people that day we saw some pretty big PRs. Also Nobody is talking about the stiff wind coming from the North that wasn't present at the beginning of the race and developed sometime after the elites turned to head back down south. Could explain a lot of negative splits in the race. Just saying the anecdotal sniff test stuff sounds bad and to be ever cynical even you witness snagging feats is not fair to the athlete. If it's proven she cheated then bring on the shame and drag name through mud. It's just sad to see do many people jump right to doping or other stuff. Is it possible absolutely. But so is every top 20 finisher possibly using peds.

[@youraveragelatino1089]

I just think they’re racist

[@ropersix]

Also, right after the finish, she was immediately running around with the flag like she had plenty of energy left. I thought it was usual, but I don't watch many road marathons. I do watch the top mountain races and ultras, though, and pretty much all winners collapse after the race, at least for a bit before they get up to pose for the cameras, etc.

[@And-rc9yy]

True, you see Kipchoge when he finished Sub2 in Vienna, then Kiptum in Chicago. Suspicious

[@And-rc9yy]

Did Jessy take "Like" doping?

[@linab.6586]

As long as the public and the sponsors crave these crazy performances and do idealize subhuman sport results, the doping will go on and become more and more impossible to detect.

[@PerryScanlon]

Please ask a scientist about detection times for microdoses of molidustat and lugworm hemoglobin, hydration affecting primary biomarkers of biological passport, and lack of testing for AICAR.

[@And-rc9yy]

Lugworm hemoglobin does sound interesting, maybe someone has found a way to mask it. I'm curious about molidustat. I'll Google it.

[@tommoore3292]

So shes had a 5k 10k n half mar pb during this marathon😂😂give me a break

[@andycleary]

Even the commenters on the world feed of the race couldn't believe what they were seeing and kept reference the advances in the carbon plated shoes as the reason for the performace. This one smell's fishy to me.

[@AncoraImparoPiper]

I read your op-ed., Amby Yes, something odd is going on there.

[@dougwasson1618]

"I have no evidence" I stopped watching right there.

[@marathonhandbook]

Thanks for the feedback - though it's worth staying around for the discussion on the 5 minute leap in her finishing times. It's not evidence of cheating, but it's a huge anomaly.

[@i.p2088]

Walking on water as well.. Believe.

[@MarkMulder77]

@@marathonhandbook World records are by definition anomalies. And besides if Kelvin Kiptum were still alive, it's feasible he would have broken the 2-hour barrier by now, maybe even at Chicago, and if he had run a 1:59 then Amby's arugment about the men-women gap being "too small" would be rubbish, since it would again be back to around 10%.

[@ssppo4703]

It's not definitive evidence, but it definitely does qualify as evidence! ​@@marathonhandbook

[@runcaz7802]

​@marathonhandbook perhaps she had major issues with her previous marathons and finally figured it out. At any rate, I did listen to the whole thing and I must say that it kinda went off the rails in the last few minutes. It got hard to listen to. It was mentioned that no prize money should be given until it's shown beyond any doubt that it was clean. However in this case you've already decided it's not.

[@Emschough]

Thanks for talking about this. Difficult topic that I wasn’t even aware of.

[@KyleUsher1]

Thanks for this. Re. the smell test - something definitely smells off with this run. Having an explainable and consistent performance improvement would reduce the questions , but this performance has come as a shock which makes us rightly suspicious. Not sure what to do from here.

[@itsianwood]

Another question is whether women's records should count if they were paced by men. If yes, that means men should be allowed to be paced by something faster than men (a vehicle or something).

[@i.p2088]

She is a Nike athlete. She had Pacers from Nike at a huge cost.. You think Nike would let her use anything illegal ❓ I don't understand why you are so negative 🙄.

[@olivervarney2032]

Do you know Nikes history with endurance and doping lol😂

[@aidanfurey2015]

Have you not heard of the Oregan Project?

[@tommoore3292]

She had a pb in 5k 10k n half in this marathon 😂😂 give me a break

[@frantzen5047]

Why is this even a debate? She was not clean.

[@frantzen5047]

I guess the reason for this debate is to make it clear for everyone that she was doped.

[@indorock]

Is this a serious question? Do you not understand the concept of the burden of proof? There is no proof, only speculation. While it's impossible to prove a negative, we have more actual scientific evidence that she didn't dope (i.e. not a single suspicious blood result) than we have evidence of the contrary. And until more credible evidence emerges that points to doping, she is rightfully the WR holder and will also be ratified as such. So, to ask something as wild as "why is this a debate" is bonkers.

[@frantzen5047]

​@@indorock Statistical proof is enough in a court of law. I don't see why this is different.

[@waterwong12]

@@frantzen5047 and conviction based off statistical proof led to miscarriage of justice in the past as in the cases of Sally Clark and Lucia De Berk.