Should we veto Twitter/X?

[@harveytadman]

Is communication not essential ? Mind you the Guardian on the other hand has not reported on numerous dawn raids of British journalists. For no other reason than reporting on resistance to genocide. Boycott the Guardian !

[@kwanchan6745]

bluesky elon musk is owned by israel...anything that weakens him is good

[@annenunney9907]

Well said Doctor Bob

[@kategreen-adarkcarnival6747]

Well said Dr. Bob - wise counsel as always. Another good interview Crispin.

[@Sunnysue31]

The Guardian is Toxic for sure !! The Guardian leaving is probably a good reason to stay...

[@annenunney9907]

Well said

[@fredfredrickson5436]

@Sunnysue31 How many layers does a 5lb onion have? In this context, not that many at all.

[@johnblack6161]

Well at least thats one place the Guardian the lying propagandist place that no one reads anyway.

[@lizzief8826]

Bobs right as usual

[@Pomegranate_David]

First time I totally disagree with Tony Greenstein. His trust in the establishment to keep us alive during the covid pandemic is surprising considering his anti establishment politics in other areas.

[@TREVORALLMAN]

I agree David. It still amazes me how so many people who were denouncing Boris Johnson as a fascist during the 2019 General Election then supported him wholeheartedly when he enacted fascistic restrictions on our lives and trampled civil liberties into the dust for no discernible reason, given lockdowns flew in the face of all established medical practice. As I learned in nursing, you isolate the sick, not the healthy.

[@reasontruthandlogic]

Tony is not generally 'anti-establishment' for the sake of it. He is basically pro-human before pro-money and against the myriad forces of the establishment who frequently attack him.

[@unchattytwit]

If the Guardian says something believe or do the opposite. Boycott The Guardian - bring it on.

[@pieinher67]

If a person lied to you and/or was neglectfully silent how many times could they do it before you never trusted a single word they ever said again? Now think of UK mainstream media. How many times? 1 to ....?

[@fredfredrickson5436]

@pieinher67 Yeah, but this is different, because hierarchy.

[@humanitarianly]

So much respect for for Dr Bob Gill

[@fredfredrickson5436]

They say, Guardian. We say, Gatekeeper... Got the sniffles, Tony? 😂

[@Barney-ii1no]

safe and effective they said, it would stop the spread they said(even Biden as president said it)

[@fredfredrickson5436]

@Barney-ii1no Redacted, redacted, and redacted. Billions, upon, billions, upon billions. Put behind a pay wall for the developing world, all but compulsory for everyone else. Cosy deals conducted beyond democratic oversight, zero accountability for the profiteers. A bigger upward transfer of wealth than the '09 scam. The only good thing to come out of it, is it let's you see just who is who.

[@lizzief8826]

Tony falling for the vax propaganda again.. against an actual doctor too 😅

[@fredfredrickson5436]

@lizzief8826 Don't tell me he can't see it. Don't tell me he's for real.

[@reasontruthandlogic]

As someone who also 'fell for the vax-propaganda' as you say Tony did, I would say that the truth lies somewhere between the pro-lockdown and do-nothing camps. Lock-down was very painful both for individuals and for the economy, but the logic behind attempting to maintain separation when the public is threatened by a disease which is known to be spread through proximity is indisputable. Sweden, for example, chose not to impose lock-down and they ended up with a much higher rate of transmission than most other countries. Doctors are aware that the pharmaceutical industry puts profits before health and is therefore generally not to be trusted in their pronouncements about the safety or effectiveness of their products.

[@WildWoodlandsSW]

First speaker,Bobby i think. Spot on,the market place of ideas is fundamental to a free society.

[@mikecollins4625]

Guardian and journalism is an oxymoron.

[@reasontruthandlogic]

Not quite. Like the BBC, they still come up with a lot of high standard reporting. However, they both fail miserably when it comes to balanced reporting on an story remotely related to politics.

[@unchattytwit]

Bob's a Doctor , he knows what he's talking about re medicine but Tony doesn't.

[@dougbuckeridge7190]

Great points made & great respect for both Tony & Bob. Really good discussion.

[@MrEnginears]

Bob nailed it.

[@josephvacquier6968]

Twitter was my only source of what was really going on in Palestine real time with minimal sensorship.

[@johngorniak6900]

Tony , by trying to shut down some speech , is doing the same as what the rest of the right have been doing . You do not beat lies by censorship . You beat lies by showing and educating on what is the truth . Tony`s thoughts on the vaccine is a good example of what not getting the full picture results in .

[@cazbrian6]

Free speech guardian ? What about Trump's relentless persecution of Julian Assange?

[@maggienicols-anothervoice671]

I thought he was going to pardon him and then caved in under pressure?

[@carleneedmonds3746]

And what about the Guardian's roll in the persecution of Julian Assange after they pt9fited from his work too,?

[@cazbrian6]

The Guardian's political trajectory changed when Alan Rusbridger stood down

[@Barney-ii1no]

yep the woman that took over just seems like an agent

[@MK-ee9wq]

I'm with Bob and I really don't like Musk or Trump.

[@waltraudboxall760]

A brilliant way to argue how to be truly open and critical. Nothing or nobody is ever completely right or wrong. To accept ambiguity is preferable to making a drastic analogy between right or wrong. There is, unfortunately, toxicity in attributing it solely to one source. Accepting a dynamics inherent in all perspectives helps to move the discourse along.

[@mikecollins4625]

What science does Tony use to determine that the vaccine saved lives? for example how many healthy, non vaxxed people died OF covid?

[@Pot-8-Toes]

Many comrades on the left were sadly deluded when it came to the C-shots. They failed to look at the suppressed evidence which has been emerging in numerous scientific studies over the past two or three years.

[@tiggtiggs]

He's been propagandized. kzbin.info/www/bejne/sJbQko1oiN9-b8ksi=rTgN-jjKqkomKm51

[@not_mybrother7705]

I am alive and well thank you for the mention 🥰

[@mikecollins4625]

@@not_mybrother7705 Vaxed or unvaxed?

[@fredfredrickson5436]

@mikecollins4625 Why, he unquestioningly defers to the messaging of an establishment that he categorises as monsters, of course. What else would he do?

[@reasontruthandlogic]

I totally agree with Dr Bob. I normally also agree with everything Tony Greenstein says or implies, but in this case he has made the serious error of criticising a platform because he disagrees strongly with some of the opinions expressed on it, rather than restricting his criticism to the views he disagrees with. There are many on both the left and right who similarly fail to see the simple logical contradiction of claiming to uphold free speech while labelling any speech they disagree with as mis- or dis- information and calling for the platform it was made on the be shut down or boycotted. A common howler expressed by many right wingers is that "the BBC has a heavy left wing bias". What a joke! That is a case of the far right accusing the right of being left. Not that the terms 'left' and 'right' any longer serve much useful purpose because they are so extensively misused. I personally disagree with almost every report the BBC news makes, but I wouldn't dream of calling for it to be closed down or taken over directly by the government.

[@susieb1211]

I’m with Bob on this

[@mbrierley144brierley3]

I've joined BlueSky today. Will gradually leave X when I've found my tribe!

[@kenny-z8e5n]

Exactly. We all need to stick with our own tribes, and never speak to or listen to anyone else. You, my friend, have cracked the secret of building the left.

[@kennethg9277]

🙄

[@HansworthBen]

Take it you didn’t have anyone effected by the vaccine Tony.

[@josephvacquier6968]

Well said Bob, spot on 👏🏻

[@not_mybrother7705]

I miss local newspapers. People should be connected to their local community in some degree. I think the mainstream and social media platforms got a booast when local news started to go bust. I think they have national value.

[@PeterPotnoodle]

Murdoch destroyed a lot of local community news outlets in Australia, I would assume he did the same elsewhere. They serve an important role in local communities, no local voice means no voice at all.

[@sandrab5250]

I didn't receive the survey Crispin despite being a regular listener / viewer of TCFS? Anyone else?

[@TNPTVconnect]

Who is this joker? This Tony understands nothing!

[@fredfredrickson5436]

@TNPTVconnect Good question. Personally, I'd describe him as a marginalised and outspoken pscho-***ual voice. Someone who might be described as volatile, even flakey; A kind of human repository for hysterical sentiments, or the walking embodiment of an overdeveloped conscience. But a good person. A really good person.

[@mikeharvey9811]

I’m with Bob gill on this. lol B

[@lostgleammedia]

Voices of reason need to stay on X

[@MichaelShawcross]

I actually like the conspiracy theories. Reading them makes me feel that people have opinions and it does no harm to hear what those opinions are.

[@Barney-ii1no]

that's it, but the powers that be have created a perception about conspiracy theories/theorists(ie the truth) that they are evil and mentally ill, they live in there mom's basement, they are dumb and believe anything etc etc, they have attached so many connotations to the term, it is laughable

[@pamelaearl7191]

They remain theories until they have been properly addressed/investigated. Therefore it is advantageous for many that conspiracy theories remain as such. I hope more people will return to your positive outlook. Wonderful. : )

[@fredfredrickson5436]

@MichaelShawcross The thousands of pages of redacted documents alone should tell you all you need to know.

[@harveytadman]

​@@fredfredrickson5436well, not really - because they're redacted ...

[@fredfredrickson5436]

@harveytadman Nice one, Trigger. 🤣

[@nickjanczak9665]

I think Tony Greenstein used too much of his time here just to attack what Dr. Bob Gill was saying.

[@KimSenior]

The second guest doesn’t have a clue when it comes to the v@xxine!

[@jamescooke6032]

"are you not going to be in a bubble with just people you agree with if you leave twitter" ... Said with no irony.. Remarkable.

[@reasontruthandlogic]

Bubbles are caused by people who only find and read what they already believe. When a major social media platform is shut down or boycotted, peoples' ability to find and read anything is reduced all round. The only way to avoid people getting into bubbles is to educate them to be more self critical and to try to read, from time to time, reports which they suspect they might not agree with.

[@MicheleCarmichael]

I left Twitter as soon as Elon Musk took control of it!

[@raoulmontefiore4803]

I wonder if going back to discussions where everyone is in the same room would help avoid talking at cross purposes?

[@annenunney9907]

It was disinfectant Bob and he was serious

[@unchattytwit]

So Trump is proclaiming the opposite of Starmer's actions. Will Trumpo deliver?

[@BroonParker]

Good to see Tony Greenstein.

[@kennethg9277]

Shame he was so off base here, as he always is on issues of freedom of speech

[@LindaSh-cm1bp]

To Mr Greenstein. The vaccines did not prevent the spread of covid, nor did it stop people dying, but it did make the drug companies billions of dollars. I agreecwith Dr Gill

[@za.307]

So where did you study medicine? Shall I get your input next time I get heart issues or muscle problems?. You seem to know a lot about human body and pharmacology, as well as disease control... as well stats.

[@Pot-8-Toes]

Spot on!

[@Pot-8-Toes]

@@za.307You only need to look to the doctors who have reported on the numerous medical studies to know this. This highlighted the abject failure of the corporate media.

[@Barney-ii1no]

its mad that even still you have people like him believing the obvious b.s

[@fredfredrickson5436]

@za.307 Have you heard about the regulatory capture? The conflicts of interest of the chief arbitors of policy? Have you seen the thousands of pages of redacted documents? The back room deals conducted by top level leaders beyond the scrutiny of democratic oversight? Do you acknowledge the profit incentive? Have you heard about the contextual precedents regarding, for example, pharmaceutical opiates? Do you conceed the consanguinuities that exist between the conglomerated media, democratic institutions, supra-national regulatory bodies, the permanent state, and the forces of capital that discharge their mandates through policy think-tanks, and institutionalised closed door annual seminars with governmental leaders. How could any thinking person genuinely share your opinion?

[@TREVORALLMAN]

What is the point in vetoing Twitter/X?? It is not going to change anything by leaving it. I'm no longer on it due to being banned under both the old regime and under Musk's ownership, and never bothered to create another account as I was wasting too much of my valuable time on it.

[@MrRoblig1]

= bluesky

[@TheSnoopall]

What a load of woke shit

[@andrewross2247]

FFS guys. Didn't you already do that when Mean Mister Musk bought it? Shame if you didn't.

[@Barney-ii1no]

the anti system guy that has been working with the us government/getting funding from them since he was in short shorts, yeah really anti establishment huh

[@za.307]

Dr Gill. Honestly, Im shocked he's allowed to work with patients. The point is about making up "your own mind". Most people wouldn't know what they are looking at. They don't have the knowledge or understand the nuance of studies. They want a simple yes or no. Also, again. I'm shocked he's allowed to work in medicine if he doesn't understand that ALL medicine can have adverse side effects. No medicine is 100%. Even the commom paracetamol has side effects. If you read the potential sides, you would never take it again. He's just a weird fella with silly points. This whole Trump thing about "free speech" is bs. See what happens if his rape conviction or relationship with Epstein comes up. It will be shut down asap.

[@maggienicols-anothervoice671]

How disrespectful , you come across as, to a doctor with ample experience and integrity He had the humility and principles to change his mind with new evidence. He was not the only qualified health practitioner or scientist to come to disagree with the dominant narrative. On the other hand, there were people with no or very little scientific knowledge advising the government on lockdowns etc. Disagreement with a qualified person is surely not sufficient reason to attack him so vehemently.

[@PeterPotnoodle]

"People just want a simple yes or no", and you endorse that? It's why people are so easily manipulated by the medical establishment.

[@benjirrust5833]

Your blase dismisal of M-rna jab side-effects demonstrate a true ignorance. These side-effects are now well-documented and vaccines in the past have been withdrawn for far less. If there were any ethical standards in pharma not distorted by finacial interest the Covid jabs would have also been withdrawn. Most are voting with their feet (or arms) and simply not getting them anymore. Your elitism and gullability are the reason so many are turned off by the current left.

[@kennethg9277]

You misunderstand the issue totally, and while *you* may want to be told what to do by your self appointed leaders without any critical thought on your part, more intelligent folk rightly feel differently.

[@galemartin9155]

👨🏿‍🦲 let me simplify it for you. The choice is your dignity or pragmatism. You will have to choose what you soul is worth.

[@kennethg9277]

No, kiddo, that's not it at all.