Should You Avoid HOAs?

[@dhavalchheda1626]

One thing video forgot to point out is they can enforce any arbitrarily rule. They have rights to collect all the dues however they have no obligations to perform any duties.

[@0IIIIII]

You are members of the HOA, you enforce and vote on the rules too. Don’t like the rules, you can vote to change them. As well, HOAs are typically required by US state laws to be non-profit. So they’re not getting rich off its members.

[@I.____.....__...__]

@@0IIIIII 😂 It always makes me laugh when people think voting actually works. 🙄 What good is one person voting when the Hitlkaren and her three friends on the board will vote against you and -bribe- threaten others to do the same? 😒

[@arga400]

Except when the land developer put marks on the rules that gave them unlimited power even after they finished the development(things like 100 votes per each one of their units) which is all legal btw@@0IIIIII

[@mightymouse9001]

@@I.____.....__...__people that think this don’t vote in the HOA and then are shocked when something they didn’t take the time to participate in passes. Our community had the offer to sign up for discounted cable that would be worked into the HOA fee. We all went down to vote and guess what didn’t pass because none of us watch cable anymore. People that complain about their HOA, but then don’t participate are just whiners. The same people that believe voting doesn’t work, got trump into office just fine …once lol

[@codyaltman29]

Not much different from code enforcement from a municipality.

[@Khadi-C]

Any organization that tells me what colors I can or can't paint my house, how tall or short my grass must be, whether or not I can have certain decorations or a garden, and so on is not one worth paying a mortgage for. I remember, years ago, reading an article about an HOA that made a grandmother remove/tear down the playhouse she built in the backyard for her granddaughter. HOAs are composed of power tripping narcissists and little else. At that point, it's barely different than renting.

[@mightymouse9001]

Keep in mind all those rules were put in place because someone took it too far. You don’t want to be stuck next to the house that decided to paint only half of it hot pink, haven’t cut their lawn in a year, and thinks 50 pink flamingo statues are cute. The value of your property and therefore your ability to move to a new area shouldn’t be controlled by the wackos on your street. What you may think are arbitrary rules protect you from the crazies

[@Khadi-C]

@@mightymouse9001 Actually, no, I don't care what other people do to the homes THEY PAID FOR AND ARE LIVING IN. What someone does with their property is none of my business, so long as it does no harm to mine. I want a home to live in and pass down, not to reinvest. So, no, I don't care if a neighbor likes hot pink (I also like hot pink; just not a favorite color), likes tall grass, or collects flamingos (I collect dolls). That's their business. I care more about the level of crime, the education system, etc. A neighbor's taste in decor does not make the list of concerns for me. I don't know about you, but I'm not buying a house with the intent to police the preferences of my neighbors.

[@mightymouse9001]

@@Khadi-Cand if your kid doesn’t want to live there anymore and tries to sell it, but has a neighbor that does all of those things, your kid will either take a financial loss or be stuck on the market because their pool of buyers is cut in half. You’d be passing on a headache. It’s good that you don’t care about it now, but it will at some point come back to be a nuisance with the wrong neighbor

[@Khadi-C]

@@mightymouse9001 Considering my kid would be getting a free house, I think whatever "loss" they have would be bearable. It says something you would consider someone whose decorative tastes differ from yours to be a "wacko" or "a crazy". All of the things going on in the world, and THAT'S your criteria for "crazy"? Really? I had my car stolen recently. Personally, I think that's crazy in comparison to "my neighbors painted their house a color I don't like".

[@mightymouse9001]

@@Khadi-C well not the house painting, more the neighbors that feed stray cats, walk their dog without leashes, hang 10+ Trump 2020 flags. Things normal people don’t do. Those are the wackos. Other stuff is keeping the community looking nice. And fair enough you got me there, a free house is a free house lol good point

[@toekneekun]

That survey has to be rigged. I’ve never met anyone who is satisfied with their HOA

[@mightymouse9001]

Usually people that say they hate their HOA have either been fortunate enough to not have a crappy neighbor or are the crappy neighbor lol. Never had a problem with my HOA, yet the people that complain about them know them all on a first name basis. Wonder why 🤔

[@toekneekun]

@@mightymouse9001 or you’re paying money and the park still looks like shit. And you’re not allowed to take out the trash the bin the night before. It has to be done in the morning, oh and pick up is 6am smh 🤦‍♂️

[@X9523-z3v]

Second that!

[@X9523-z3v]

​@@mightymouse9001Or you're the Karen making it happen

[@mightymouse9001]

@@X9523-z3v making what happen? Holding neighbors to a higher standard? Paid good money to live in a nice home in a nice community. Yea I want others to not be a nuisance, just as I’m not a nuisance to others. A monthly payment to keep the riff raff out is worth it

[@andrewrockwell1282]

The main problem is that you can't escape the HOA, there are more than ever.

[@chukuemekaoje1015]

Yup! Supposedly, it's a great way for local govts to shift the cost of the maintenance of public works and liability to homeowners. And the trend seems to be, build bigger, nicer single family homes to meet consumer demand.... which necessitates the HOA.

[@mightymouse9001]

@@chukuemekaoje1015 here in Florida they call that CDD “community development district” which is usually a separate item. But since they are building more community amenities usually they have the HOA too

[@KaiSosceles]

When searching for a home, Zillow has a “No HOA” filter. Everyone needs to start using it and HOAs fall off the map.

[@amanasd26]

ehh, they aren't common in canada and are a lot more lenient

[@addanametocontinue]

Yep. No getting away from them. I don't think housing developers are implementing HOAs just because they want to, it's probably encouraged by the local government to help with maintenance and crap.

[@vzxvzvcxasd7109]

Basically, in an HOA, you exchange your freedom with the possibility of keeping your house expensive

[@steverogers7601]

On top of paying them more money for this possibility of keeping your house expensive.

[@I.____.....__...__]

* only UP TO 4% more. Hardly worth it. 😒 Really. If the house isn't worth much anyway, 4% of not-much is even less. If the house is already worth a lot, 4% of a-lot is a fair chunk but still meaningless to someone who lives in an expensive house. Not worth it.

[@petelee2477]

​@@I.____.....__...__4%? At that point you are probably paying more money in HOA fees than the property value you were supposed to maintain. Might do the math later when I have time.

[@n_u001]

houses are for living in not for profit

[@LV-qr8fr]

Well said

[@ELCLAVE300]

Giving your money to an HOA is like voluntarily paying more taxes.

[@TheDanEdwards]

HOA fees _are_ an example of what is meant by "taxes". Taxes are the price of civilization, and HOAs are a type (or subset) of civilization.

[@xxtroopa26xx]

Just like playing the Lotto

[@addanametocontinue]

Okay, so what's the problem? Taxes pay for road maintenance, police, etc. You one of those sovereign citizen types, lol?

[@micosstar]

@@addanametocontinueactually there’s no problem as what she said is true; it’s only becomes a problem when the HOA doesn’t take care of the property, otherwise, it’s like paying taxes for road upkeep

[@MrFastFox666]

Only to have some power tripping Karens make up some bs policies while pocketing half the money.

[@TheGraemeH]

I have lived in a house that belonged to an HOA and I realized very quickly that they are not a fit for me. My property, my decisions. Never again.

[@mightymouse9001]

You’re very fortunate to not have that bad neighbor that doesn’t mow their lawn, wants to paint their house a crazy color like hot pink, install 10+ Trump 2020 flags, keep broken down cars in their driveway What did you want to do that your HOA didn’t allow?

[@williams_57]

@@mightymouse9001 he wanted to not mow the lawn, paint the house a crazy color, install 10+ Trump 2020 flags, and keep broken down cars in the driveway

[@TheGraemeH]

@@mightymouse9001 I live in Canada so there are (slightly) less crazies up here. At least where I live. The main one was a front yard garden. To me, lawns are wasted space. Also the costs didn't justify what we were getting out of the deal.

[@mightymouse9001]

@@TheGraemeH that is fine to be fair after talking to some other people, if they were being honest, the price they paid made no sense whatsoever. My experience has only even been a fair fee for plenty of amenities. $218 a month covered all utilities but electric, lawn maintenance, outside insurance, pool, dog park, barbecue pit, tennis courts. When you separate out all the items you’d have to pay for anyway, it was very reasonable! I hear Canada has very polite people too so again maybe there is a big difference there. Come visit anytime down in Florida and I’ll love to show you why HOAs are a godsend here lol!

[@victorialazareva]

@@mightymouse9001it wouldn’t bother me what he does with his property. Besides, lawns are bad for the environment

[@CG_Hali]

Highly recommend watching Jon Oliver's episode about those! From what most commenters I've seen on the internet though, stay away at all costs! Even if the contract is ok now, one new border member being voted in can suddenly mean years of crazy regulations, costs and lawsuits. They can even sell your home without you ever knowing it happened.

[@mightytoast2693]

Seconding this.

[@ampersignia]

This video is missing some cynicism. HOAs are not necessarily popular because people want them, they’re popular because the CC&Rs are the last thing on your mind when you’re buying a home you can afford and you don’t want to close yourself off from like 70% of properties that are in areas and price ranges you want. In my experience working in real estate data, HOAs do not increase the value of homes. Homes without HOAs can automatically have a higher value and even in their listing they advertise “No HOA!” As a selling point. I bought a townhome with an HOA on a gamble, I knew it might suck as I’ve had experience with an HOA as a renter, but this home is what I could afford. The HOA is fairly chill with only 1 extra assessment of $160 in the last 2 years I’ve lived here and seems to have a healthy savings buffer.

[@A2-RC]

We purposely bought a house with no HOA. I love being able to park my cars in the yard when I need to! Grass got a little too long? Who cares! I love having no HOA 😊

[@JamesDCornette]

I'd never HOA, they are for bozos.

[@enriquelinares9218]

this is why i bought my house outside of an HOA, i dont want anybody telling me what pet i can have, or how i can decorate my house. plus i really dont think about selling my house probably ever.

[@a.x.l.9]

I bought a condo last year. My HOA is pricey, but overall I'm pleased with them. I live in a nice part of Sacramento with a gated community and a pool, I don't have to pay water, sewer, or garbage, and best of all... I don't have to do ANY yard work, and I'm not responsible for ANY repairs or upkeep outside the walls of my unit! I was a little nervous about living in an HOA when I first bought it, but after a year they definitely aren't as bad as a lot of people make them out to be.

[@stevenjohnson8736]

and Sacramento is home to the largest homeless population in the Central Valley way more than Stockton and Modesto

[@marknewton6984]

Bet you like lawyers too.

[@mmps18]

Anecdotally, my friends in big cities like their HOAs because they live in condos that need lots of routine work but my friends in the sprawled burbs hate theirs. My suburban friends seem to hate theirs due to fines over aesthetics (panting their mailbox purple with daisies, planting 2 shrubs instead 3 like expected etc). I opted for a non-HOA neighborhood and I'm personally very grateful.

[@safaiaryu12]

Two shrubs instead of three... My god, the horror!

[@kben6857]

For a shared infrastructure like a condo building HOAs make sense. You pay the fees for upkeep to the building itself and the rules are typically limited to shared spaces. But in a neighborhood of single-family homes, there is little benefit. A similar debate for multi-unit buildings is condo HOAs vs. co-ops. In a co-op you are not technically buying your unit but part of the building. A co-op can literally dictate if you can do any remodeling within your unit. They also can vote you out, and force you to sell.

[@CardiniPanini]

​@@safaiaryu12tearing down your garden or backyard mini playground because they didn't like it isn't so fun

[@safaiaryu12]

@@CardiniPanini Yeah. I get why HOAs exist, but it really seems like they just cause grief for most people. Ruining backyard gardens and playgrounds is pretty objectively terrible. If they're not hurting anyone, why do they care?? My comment above was snarking at how utterly ridiculous it is to get fined over having the wrong number of shrubs. At that point, it's clearly just HOA people abusing their power. I guess there can be value in having the homes/properties in a neighborhood look similar, but having every yard or house look EXACTLY IDENTICAL down to the number of shrubs does not at all appeal to me. In fact, it comes off as creepy. 🙄

[@Sagalink]

I wish this video talked a bit more about WHY people like HOAs. Because to me, substantial dues, unexpected fees, heavy restrictions, and unnecessary luxury amenities just seems like a losing proposition!

[@captainspacebones3795]

My sister and brother-in-law live in a gated community with HOA. They did it because the community had the nicest houses in the area, the amenities like playgrounds and pools (they just had their first child a few months back) and they want to sell their house at a profit whenever they do sell.

[@scarpfish]

I'm sure that they're attractive to folks who are of the "keep the rif-raff out, it's an investment first and a place to live second" crowd, but in all honesty that segment of society is being overcatered to when it comes to the building of new homes.

[@akirebara]

I own a small condo in a big metropolitan city that gets a TON of snow in the winter. Waking up in the morning and not having to shovel it was enough for me. Plus, when we had our water heater break, within 3 days, a new one was installed and my HOA only increased by $10 the next year because our reserves were high enough not to overtly increase it yet. 5 years in my condo and I love my neighbors and I love my HOA. But maybe I just lucked out.

[@shaereub4450]

​@@captainspacebones3795also, to be fair, one point is to keep everything reasonably nice, up to date, ECT so they value of ALL the homes don't go down in value.

[@scarpfish]

@@shaereub4450 Yet, I've never seen any substantial evidence that shows an HOA makes those good things happen compared with a comparable tract of non-HOA houses. If your home has all the modern amenities and is in a desirable location that often takes care of itself.

[@chefnyc]

Also pay attention to how easily new restrictions can be introduced. Is it by simple majority of those present in some HOA meeting? You may like the rules while you are buying your house/condo but what about the new rules you never agreed on?

[@I.____.....__...__]

Exactly. Because of how voting ACTUALLY works, it's trivial for a bad-actor to take over the board with a couple of friends and do whatever they want, changing anything to suit themselves and become authoritarian.

[@rhaegartargaryen9315]

HOA in a skyscraper is literally unavoidable. Some members will get a power trip, but with a polite nod and group discussions over WhatsApp is what keeps everyone in check.

[@sor3999]

A good property management firm should keep the noise down. That unfortunately increases costs and usually high rises are managed by professionals instead of a committee of homeowners so the HOA fees are enormous. Your monthly payment gets to the point that you could just go and buy a detached single-family home instead and SAVE money lol.

[@thedopplereffect00]

I'm not downloading some stupid app to gossip with my neighbors. If they have a problem, they should come to the front door and talk to me like a human.

[@OscarSotoJr]

It's interesting how positively HOAs are depicted on Two Cents, although they were very clear about them having a lot of legal weight. Maybe stories about nightmare HOAs are less than 1% of how HOAs normally operate, and it's just the nightmare scenarios that everyone hears about. Still, I hate the idea of not being able to do what I want on my own home and property. Also, I would have liked if they touched upon the history of HOAs and how they relate to redlining, but it's probably a topic that is best left for another video.

[@user-kj2fj8qr9l]

Something I'd be curious about is how easy/difficult they are to avoid. If most available homes are under an HOA, do people really have that much of a choice? I get the idea of there being certain restrictions for certain neighborhoods like no dogs, no noise etc. But this is America, the default should be that we are free do do what we want with our own property so long as we don't hurt others.

[@nkgoodal]

I live in an HOA; there really isn't a choice in many neighborhoods where I live. I am generally not a fan. The history of HOAs starts with redlining, and they often have a way of bringing out the worst in nosey neighbors. The real positive for us is we have very nice pool, the HOA covers trash and recycling collection, and our dues are quite low.

[@funtechu]

@@user-kj2fj8qr9l It depends on the area, but in most areas it's still pretty possible to avoid HOAs as long as you make a point of it. When I bough my house a few years back, about 30% of the listings on the market had no HOA.

[@funtechu]

It also depends on the type of property. It's pretty much impossible to get a condo or townhome without an HOA which makes sense because there are shared walls or roofs. So if you want to avoid an HOA you'll need to look into standalone single family homes, or buying an entire multi-family unit (duplex/triplex/quadplex).

[@funtechu]

Here are some stats looking at what percentage of current listings in different major cities have no HOA: New York: 8833/22144 = 39.9% Chicago: 3776/6793 = 55.6% Austin: 22174248 = 52.2% LA: 4064/5317 = 76.4% Denver: 1067/1804 = 59.1% Miami: 1289/2994 = 43.1%

[@Growinmyownway]

First home had an hoa and we got stuck out of town for awhile. Got a lien on our home for an empty trash can that was left outside for a couple weeks.Our current home has no HOA and no regret what so ever, some houses are a little brighter than I’d choose for myself or have landscaping issues but in the long run causes me no problem. It’s also very competitive in the market because we can store our rv or boat in our yards.

[@wclark3196]

"We broke the rules we agreed to when we moved in and suffered the defined consequences we had been informed of. We haven't stopped complaining about it since." There you go. Fixed it for you.

[@Growinmyownway]

@@wclark3196 we literally couldn’t come home we were stuck in another stat, and they put a lien for an effing trash can. Ridiculous. Rules like that are just dumb so if you are sheep enough to have to follow and not allow exceptions enjoy the HOA

[@wclark3196]

"Waaaah Waaaah Waaaah." There you go. Fixed it for you. Rules are usually that you put out the cans the night before collection and take them in later, after collection. How you managed to get so far away in less than 24 hours without it being a deliberate choice is a mystery.

[@hachi-machi]

as a European HOAs sound downright insane lol

[@vectorhacker-r2]

As an American, I agree.

[@ntmn8444]

They are. And it’s becoming difficult to escape them in many places now, bc a lot of the new construction out there are now HOA.

[@eldrago19]

We do have 'leasehold' agreements in the UK which are somewhat similar but generally only apply to flats and are used to pay for repairs to the building, but sometimes they are abused.

[@mr.kilpatrick2991]

I've lived in an HOA since 1999 until 2022 (4 different ones) when we bought our current house NOT in an HOA. It was one of many selling points. HOAs sound good on paper and have some pros but in reality after much experience with them I have come to the conclusion that it is nothing more than an additional layer of government ordering you to pay them monthly and telling you what you can and cannot do on the property you bought and pay taxes on. The cons outweigh the pros.

[@mightymouse9001]

Totally fair, but I have had the opposite experience. I think HOA fees are one of those items you ask yourself “what the hell am I paying this for” until you stop paying it and the crazies come out. As long as the fee makes sense for the amenities you’re getting back. It’s a great deterrent for those that don’t care about the presentation of their home

[@mr.kilpatrick2991]

@@mightymouse9001 yeah agreed - it does totally depend on where you live and the type of people that may end up there, the amount and the amenities. And some HOA boards for me were worse than others.

[@wclark3196]

I bet your neighbours were glad to see you go.

[@sor3999]

So glad you brought up the 2021 condo collapse. I followed that story and just shook my head as a prime example of a bad HOA.

[@CatJolie]

Actually the sitting board at the time of the collapse tried to do the right things but past board failures were too great to prevent the tragedy.

[@caelr.8553]

I needed this 5 years ago. Special Assessment nearly bankrupted us. I think the world could live without these things.

[@zardon_zane1630]

Thanks for the video, So the short answer is Yes! I work for a cable company and one of the clients needed the HOA to know which company (with this it means the technician was from the cable company, a contractor or for a third party company) was going to do the installation and where they were going to put the antenna but the technician is the one that judges that based on the house and the company chooses the person doing the job on the same day and the HOA wanted to know days before... Like, I understand you want to know the service they getting in case you have a contract or something if you rent, BUT IF THE HOUSE IS YOUR HOUSE AND YOU PAY YOUR MORTGAGE THEY SHOULDN'T CARE

[@k_escobar917]

I live in South FL and it seems like 95% of homes and condos have HOA’s smh. And they’re all $600+ a month

[@csroka708]

Another commenter mentioned John Oliver's piece. In that story, it was reported that HOAs in some areas do not have to reveal all contract terms to potential buyers before sale. Unbelieveable.

[@kopkaljdsao]

HOAs are good for gated communities and for multi owner residential buildings.Any other housing type and they become a problem.

[@BoxingMaster]

what is other housing type other than multi owner residential building? Isnt all of them like multi owner residential building?

[@catherinebaldwin6580]

HOA are great for townhouses and condos, not great for places where they want to keep the neighborhood of single family houses the same. My uncle lived in these and he can’t do anything outside because, “it will ruin the history of the house”. No services, just laws to keep everyone looking like the 1920’s. I would at least like to keep my driveway clean of snow without doing myself.

[@ntmn8444]

That’s basically all that’s being built now tho.

[@thatguyswavomeer]

In my country we have private companies that are hired by a community of owners to do exactly the same thing. They usually manage multiple properties and in this way they can negotiate better prices for maintenance, materials and services. Plus, they are fully professionalized.

[@averagejoe181]

If I want basic chores like landscaping and snow shoveling done, I'll do it myself or hire someone instead of paying $200+ every month for it. I can't believe people are blocked from opting out of services like that.

[@patricklippert8345]

"Assuming you have a competent board" is being really optimistic. One of my friends who has an HOA for a condo says it's been a revolving door of bad boards who don't make even bare minimum repairs or upkeep, but collect dues anyways. As much as I would rather own than rent, at least with landlord-tenant laws you can make the landlord do maintenance when the building is falling apart.

[@sbombfitness]

The HOA on my house is $750/mo, pretty wild. It covers insurance and exterior maintainance. We also get a pool, tennis courts, and a clubhouse, but it still seems pretty steep.

[@Diecastinator]

I hate HOAs and have mostly heard horror stories. I've never owned any property under an HOA and I never will because no one ever owns it. They are depending upon the arbitrary rules, the assessments and all these other things that just take your freedom away. Create a lot of stress and anger etc. Just stay away

[@nigelwest5776]

Running an HOA is what you want to do when you have the pettiness corruption and narcissism of a politician but don't have the aptitude

[@57awilson]

After living in a community with an HOA that threatened us with a fine if we didn’t get the yard mowed the day we moved in, we determined to never live under an HOA again. Unfortunately those things are everywhere so it might not be possible to avoid them permanently.

[@freakinsweetdude]

Some HOA’s are insane with their dues. I’ve seen HOA dues as high as $600 a month and only included paint and common area insurance/electricity. Insane.

[@gusasiu]

A community I bought a house refused to let you read the HOA rules prior to purchase. You can’t always check if an HOA is good for you or not. My experience, HOAs are never worth it.

[@REAL-UNKNOWN-SHINOBI]

Yeah that's a giant red flag right there. The same kind of red flag as realtors saying it's in an HOA in the first place.

[@CaraMarie13]

I don't have an HOA, I have a co-op board. I specifically looked to buy a co-op and not a condo because of the power boards have to establish rules of conduct (and also because the maintenance fee covers pretty much all the things I have zero interest in doing myself). Am someone that doesn't like loud sounds so i love that my coop has rules regarding the hours things like a radio can be played.

[@linkisraw]

Where I live, it's so hard to find houses without HOA. Non HOA houses are well outside the city far from everything else, at least where I live.

[@steverogers7601]

I love living in a city but I would gladly learn to live outside of a city just to avoid HOAs. We take out our trash, return our trash bins, clean our leaves, never play loud music, never leave decorations up way past expiration, shovel our front sidewalk, park considerately, and clean up after our pets. I would simply hate having any rules applied to me and risk experiencing any argument, pushback, or stonewalling if I’m in the right. F that! Life and owning a home is already stressful as it is, and I’m not some busy body loser who needs to be in other people’s business, or need people in mine.

[@mightymouse9001]

All those things that you do, I have had several neighbors that do none of them. They make the community a worse place to live. HOAs keep those people in line or simply keep them out of the neighborhood. What you pay for isn’t visible until you stop paying for it.

[@JoseFloresEC]

"Home's with HOA's on average sell for 4% more" but some probably pay that much more over their time on extra HOA fee's

[@bilahn1198]

This is why HOA properties are nothing but glorified apartments, without any of the advantages of renting an apartment. Oh, but you're a home owner, and you can paint the walls!

[@jthummell]

If I lived in a condo, HOA for sure. If I lived in the suburbs our country, absolutely no chance someone can tell me what to do with my property

[@craigcarter400]

I think of HOAs on about the same level of silliness as co-signing on a loan.

[@pizzaguy552]

I dont think HOAs are usually worth it financially. The 4% return can exclude the payments you make monthly. Putting that money in index funds will almost certainly earn you more than the HOA ever will.

[@AlexsGoogleAccount]

Yeah, by their own admission, HOAs exist to keep property values high and they only net you a 4% increase in value over a non-HOA? So you're paying a monthly expense, plus special liens, plus obeying whatever rules they have in place and whatever they come up with... for 4% more at the time of selling?

[@Iamso4u]

Bought our first house, it was a rental previously. Received three letters in short succession about things we had to fix. I can only assume the last owner didn’t care to play ball since they were selling. One of them was to paint the entire exterior of the house! We had it pressure washed and later received a thank you for taking care of this violation letter. Why didn’t they just say the greening under the windows looks bad? Nope! Paint the whole house! Surely you have a few grand laying around. 😅

[@micahnightwolf]

TL:DR you sell your freedom for 4% of your property's value, minus the cost of any dues, fines, and assessments you will have paid during your time there. How much is your home worth when you subtract all the fees you paid to the HOA? How much would your home be worth if you were allowed to make additions to it, park a car in the driveway, use the garage for storage, have a shed, or plant a tree without needing approval from literally anybody else?

[@stefangherman8408]

Sound strange to how HOAs work in USA. In Romania, in my town, the HOAs manage the apartament buildings and their task are: colecting money for the garbage pick up fees, hiring janitors and maintainance and colecting the fees for water and sewage. Also they establish some rules, like keep quiet hours and other rules like this.

[@wclark3196]

THAT'S AGAINST FREEDOM! YOU DOBT UNDERSTAND BECAUSE YOU ARE A COMMIE! USA! USA! USA!

[@RoIIingStoned]

So it’s exactly the same…?

[@thedebatehitman]

I wish that I would’ve seen this video eight years ago before I joined an HOA. Luckily, my HOA doesn’t seem to really enforce much in the covenant-at least not that I’ve seen.

[@justindie7543]

I wouldn't take that for granted. Who knows when some control freak jerk is going to decide to join the board and start enforcing every single rule as a power trip. HOA boards tend to attract those sorts of people.

[@pawpatrolnews]

Enforcing rules that people agree to isn't a 'power trip'...

[@micosstar]

@@pawpatrolnewssad as it is, yeah; people need to be more educated about HOAs before entering into a contract in law with ‘em (“legal agreement”; typically capitalized as “Agreement”)

[@sonicpsycho13]

That's the reality of a majority of HOA experiences. HOAs are like airplanes - most of the time they function as expected, but when they fail, everyone hears about it.

[@pongop]

I would never live in an HOA. Who pays extra money for more restrictions, for everything to look identical, and to let someone tell them what to do? That's like going to work, except instead of getting paid, you pay them.

[@EtherealReality]

Had to search for 6 months to find an acceptable home in a non-hoa neighborhood. You couldn't pay me to live in a place with those power-hungry control freaks.

[@HazMat1012]

A friend of mine actually loved Halloween. She lived in an HOA that wouldn't let her set up Halloween decorations in September.

[@arh1234]

That's more than a month in advance of the holiday. Doesn't seem crazy to limit it a little.

[@HazMat1012]

@arh1234 yeah, she was ok with the limit. She wanted to set up last week of September and knew she was just over excited about it, lol

[@jamesmooney8933]

Who the hell does she think she is? The HOA let's do anything she wants as long she does in her bathroom with the door closed.

[@matthewshannon9]

My HOA is $500 a year. We get pools, and they keep the value of our house up. It also keeps people from letting their house and yard go. I'm ok with my HOA.

[@marknewton6984]

And your lawyer...😮

[@scarpfish]

I wouldn't perhaps hate HOA's so much if they weren't designed in a manner where it's but impossible to get rid of them if the people living in them so desired. There's also the ugly fact that in most locales, if you want to live in a newer development, you pretty much have no choice but to buy in an HOA community, and the city goes along with it in hopes the HOA will help it collect more property tax revenue and take some of the cost of enforcement burden off their hands. I was very fortunate when I bought my home to find one in a non-HOA tract that was an addition to a HOA community. Honestly, the homes look exactly the same, go for the exact same prices, and I don't have to deal with paying for things like a community swimming pool or walking paths behind my house that I would never use. Honestly, if we were to give prospective homebuyers a good and fair tutorial on the pros and cons of HOA's and then asked them what they would prefer, I'm quite certain that a significant chunk of those folks would be in the "Hell no!!" crowd, but this sentiment isn't being addressed by building more non-HOA homes. Whatever happened to "the customer is always right"?

[@I.____.....__...__]

That's the problem, things like HOAs, governments, etc. are all like that, once they come into existence, they're there FOREVER, and they ALWAYS devolve into an authoritarian nightmare because they'll always _eventually_ become infested with the worst people who will become tyrants and change things to make it impossible to get rid of them and replace them with someone who isn't garbage. Look at Syria. 🤦 HOAs are no different.

[@arex9000]

i feel unless your neighbor's place is falling apart or trash in the backyard for weeks, they should leave you alone

[@sor3999]

@@arex9000 Even if your neighbor's place is falling apart, it still isn't your business. There was a story that circulated recently about some cancer patient being hit with fines because his grass became too long. Before you go and whine that the grass being an inch too tall, 12 inches too tall even, for your aesthetic taste, maybe consider the person living there is having a hard time far more than your eyes being offended. If it's about property values, I have lived in 2 neighborhoods where there was that one home that looked haunted. Guess what, buddy? The homes in the area were still pricey and the values still goes up year after year. "Think of the property values" is basically "the sky is falling". No data to back up the claim, just constant fear of your on-paper wealth MAYBE declining.

[@sor3999]

Developers incorporate the HOA before there are any owners and put in rules to make it impossible to dissolve. Almost all new developments have HOAs built in. I saw a video somewhere that the homes sell for something like 3%-5% more with than without so I guess we whiners about HOAs are the minority since there are people who will pay more to be in one.

[@scarpfish]

@@sor3999 Your source was likely pro-HOA propaganda put out by their trade organization the Community Associations Institute or some other entity making their bread off of this racket. There's nothing "whiny" about people not wanting yet another legal entanglement and financial expense being bundled with their home ownership. As far as people "choosing" to live in an HOA community, that's not really a fair comparison when similar non-HOA communities largely don't exist. When the only alternatives are living in a neighborhood where hearing gunshots at night is a regular thing or commuting from a far off small town, that's not really a choice, as people only choose it because its the least objectionable option.

[@angelcarrillo980]

I wish you provided an elaboration of what a lien means (it goes hand in hand with an eviction, and all the financial damning that ruins your future as well).

[@fmaz1952]

The main issue with HOA is when the fees are raised too fast, or special levies happens and you don't have spare cash. If you own a non-HOA property, you can push off restaining your deck a year if finances are thigh. And you can do it yourself. With a HOA it will be done when they decide at the cost quoted by what ever professional they chose. HOA are great if you have a lot of disposable income and can afford the "unforseen" special levies.

[@sonicpsycho13]

Why would that be required? Where I live, mine has no such covenant. I can color my front and back porches if I want or not. I can paint or stain my fence or not. How about there one down street? $25/yr to upkeep the pool and you just gotta cut your grass.

[@safaiaryu12]

I've never heard a good story about an HOA, and the amount they charge in dues for doing practically nothing but harass people is appalling. The last house I rented (with a pile of roommates) was in an HOA - luckily we never had to deal with them. Just got our bins off the street on time, and the homeowners were doing the yardwork. Just moved to a new house with a new HOA. Our across-the-street neighbor is breaking rules left and right - primarily by blaring loud music and political podcasts outside, which we can hear inside our house. I'm very much a "live and let live" type of person, but I know noise complaints are like a super common thing in neighborhoods, so I do end up wondering. If this HOA isn't enforcing that rule, what else are they neglecting? And how much are they charging each month to do nothing? I mean, whatever, I'm not paying the dues, it just seems like an unjust system...

[@kenny1514]

The problem is most people want the benefits/amenities in their community brought about by HOAs, but don't want the obligation/restrictions that comes along with having these shared benefits or resources. So they get frustrated by a limitation/restriction when they encounter one. This nothing unique to HOAs, it's allover society. People complain about speeding tickets and even speed limits, but like the benefits of a public road and the safety of not being t-boned by a semi truck going 150MPH

[@bradcr152]

Absolutely. I've had two bad HOA's.. things were fine at first until some crazy fool got on the board and caused everyone absolute headaches. I'll never live anywhere with one again.

[@micahbush5397]

To me, the dues alone are enough to make HOAs a hard no. Not to mention the fact that I have no desire to live in Camazotz.

[@steverogers7601]

Taking out the trash is not hard at all for us, and because of that, I would hate being required to pay due for that. Then the violation fees are another thing. Our trash guys come by Tuesdays and Fridays, and they leave all our neighbors trash cans on the sidewalk after they collect the trash. It absolutely 100% not bother me if I see their trash bins on the sidewalk. I don’t even notice it most of the time and it’s something that does not make me worry that our neighborhood might look like trash. But HOAs enforce that and if you don’t bring in your trash bin, you get a fine. I would hate for my neighbors to get a fine for not bringing in their trash when it’s something I consider a nonissue, because objectively it is absolutely a nonissue

[@mightymouse9001]

@@steverogers7601but what you consider a non issue, others will. That’s the whole point of the HOA! Whatever it takes to make the community overall look presentable

[@steverogers7601]

@@mightymouse9001 Elaine: “ugh! This drink is terrible Jerry: “did you shake it up?” Elaine: “no” Jerry: “you gotta shake it up” Elaine: “no I’m sick of shaking, you gotta shake everything” Jerry: *gently shakes bottle* “yea that’s a real nuisance….this is killing me”

[@I.____.....__...__]

You mean you DON'T want to pay other people to forbid you from doing what you want with and in your own house? WHAAAAAA-‽ 🤨

[@justanotherjessica]

4% more doesn't seem worth it after you factor in the costs of the HOA you've paid over the years. I think I'd only live in an HOA if I were buying a condo with a pool or a similar perk because it would be similar to the apartment life I enjoy now but I could paint and remodel inside my unit however I like. If I'm buying a house, I want to be able to actually enjoy living there and making it my own. I don't want anybody telling me that I can't paint my house a certain color or put yard decorations out.

[@mightymouse9001]

Yet how would you feel if a neighbor decided to paint their home hot pink and decorate their yard with 50 flamingo statues? Here in Florida you still have neighbors with 20 foot flag poles with tattered Trump 2020 flags blowing around Maybe you don’t mind that, but when it comes down to resale, you’ll have a significant portion of people that will pass up on your property.

[@duckfarmer8630]

I hear most HOA restrict what kind of outdoor animals you can have....so say good bye to the sheep!

[@mightymouse9001]

@@duckfarmer8630 that would be nice to have. Maybe not a sheep, but a few chickens sounds like it would be fun. Never had them though so maybe that’s a lot of work

[@justanotherjessica]

​@@mightymouse9001 I honestly wouldn't care as long as my neighbors were nice people and didn't cause actual problems. There's a house in my town that decorates with skeletons year round (randomly changing what the skeletons are wearing and their poses) and they are the NICEST people ever and provide so much joy for the people in their neighborhood. When I buy a home, I'll be living there until I die or get put in a retirement home so I don't give a crap about resale value lol.

[@TomMcMorrow]

I live in a condo association that has an HOA and I really like how neat and clean the development is. Conversely there's an apartment complex a two minute walk away and it's chaos. Trash in the streets, balconies crammed with refuse, it's night and day.

[@steverogers7601]

Do you take ice baths, saunas, and listen to Joe Rogan too?!

[@I.____.....__...__]

HOAs aren't to credit or blame for stuff like that. There are a couple of co-ops right beside each other here and they're practically twins in their layouts and buildings and their systems (both are co-ops under the same system with the same policy and everything). One is great, the other WAS great but has devolved into a trailer-park because they stopped interviewing applicants and kept taking in everyone, including trailer-trash families with little brats etc.

[@lolbots]

​@@steverogers7601you're a bud light kinda guy huh

[@mikaylawoolley140]

Our HOA is $25 a month, maintains a playground, fixes the signs/fence, and otherwise keeps to themselves. There’s a neighborhood yard sale and ice cream social in the summer. No junk cars or RVs in our neighborhood, but it’s also not aesthetically “fake” in nature. It’s the perfect amount of power/intrusion.

[@mechanicalfluff]

HOA's greatly reduce the value of property in my opinion.

[@mr.alkenly889]

I'm good with our hoa, they are 150 a year and don't do anything except make sure the street lights work at night

[@collegedegree8506]

HOAs are overpriced and terrible in 99% of cases. $150 for trash removal and a playground. Meanwhile a comparable trash service would be $50 or less a month and the land and playground equipment would cost you $2000-$5000. Divide that over the course of your mortgage or share that cost with your neighbors and $150/month is SIGNIFICANTLY more… even with repairs.

[@collegedegree8506]

If my house was worth $300k, and I could sell it for 4% more thanks to an HOA, that’s $312k. If my HOA is $150/month, I would have to sell the house within 7 years to make that worth it. After that I’ve lost more money to HOA fees than I’ll ever get back on top of paying for my own services at a much lower rate.

[@andreimircea2254]

On the topic of housing (which is tightly tied to urban planing), I am begging you to make a video or a set of videos about the unsustainability of low density single-family housing developments and how it’s bankrupting the US and Americans, how a lack of good alternatives to the car costs US taxpayers and the government a lot of money in both maintenance and lost economic opportunities (which is tied to the induced demand issue if there are more lanes or parking spots built), and how dense cities with viable and reliable alternatives to car ridership help people live better lives and escape poverty easier. EDIT: I am asking this because you’ve talked about systemic topics before and I really love your content for years, I watched this channel since its first videos and I want to see it make better and better content.

[@timeformore]

Especially on the west coast. Outside of major cities, it’s almost exclusively single family housing up and down the coastal states. It’s a nightmare making this the most expensive area to live.

[@harshitbalaji1019]

This is making me rethink my idea of migrating to the US. India feels more like a free country now... I can do whatever I want in my house and decorate/style my house the way I like it without having to worry about anything.

[@mightymouse9001]

What you may find appealing may be an eye sore for everyone else that also is stuck looking at your home. When you’re buying one of the most expensive items you’ll ever pay for in your lifetime, you don’t want the value of it to plummet because your neighbor wants to paint their home hot pink, not take care of their lawn, and thinks putting their car up on Jack stands with all the wheels off for a few months is ok

[@Khadi-C]

@@mightymouse9001 All of your comments are like this. Have you considered you are way too concerned with other people's lives?

[@mightymouse9001]

@@Khadi-C no just striking up conversation with people that hate HOAs. Trying to see if anyone considers what I’m saying. So far the replies are either people don’t care about their property values or no reply. Someone even said they’d encourage their neighbor to not cut their lawn in the name of freedom. People are funny 🤷‍♂️

[@Syllogyzym]

@mightymouse9001 lmao have fun licking all those boots

[@rainbowunicode8352]

​@@mightymouse9001I think it's cool you're striking up conversation, presenting an alternative perspective in a reasonable way. I wish more of KZbin was people exchanging thoughtful conversation.

[@fikilemkhize5776]

I am glad to see you guys still together. I love families

[@fackeyutub-emael6545]

An HOA was created for old people to keep young people out of their neighborhood. I will never do it again. Huge regret.

[@jonathancotner7040]

You will NEVER convince me HOA's are legal, and seriously go to hell for ever trying to convince anyone they ARE a good idea.

[@robmckee5295]

The professionalism of our HOA board leaves a lot to be desired. It's usually a shouting match at the meetings I've seen. I pay my fees and keep my head down.

[@jamesmooney8933]

Sound like being in prison.

[@o1977jp]

My condo building has a No Dogs Allowed policy, however a few residents still own them under the "comfort animal" exception. Just thought I'd throw that out there. I've been in a condo since 2008 and have never had a major issue, but it is very important who is (and isn't) on the board of Trustees. We are basically at the mercy of what decisions 5 people collectively make. It's extremely important to have money set aside for surprise assessments.

[@petelee2477]

Perfect that means my pet cow is welcomed. It's not a dog after all.

[@ntmn8444]

Finding a home that isn’t a part of an HOA is becoming more and more difficult, and because it’s desirable for people to live in a home that’s not in an HOA, that’s just going to drive costs up, bc there’s only so many homes with that condition.

[@BXDudeRD2007]

Geez I really despise HOAs and it sucks that the majority of homes in my area are HOA homes

[@soapboxer6711]

Paying some annoying busybodies to interfere in your life for 4%? Not worth it.

[@elonmuskrat9244]

HOA for a condo is mandatory. It pays for the landscapers, trash bill, electric bill, parking lot etc. I mean if we could afford to buy a standalone house we would, but if you live in a condo, there's an HOA that is needed to pay for those utilities. I feel like people always comment that "Why would you ever choose to live in an HOA" but aren't really seeing the reality.

[@BramptonHughes]

I can’t believe this is even a thing . Seems like this started from people having too much time, retired , housewives , People gotta get a life.

[@AlexsGoogleAccount]

It started from communities of people who wanted to keep their neighborhoods racially and ethnically "pure". And to some extent, they still serve that purpose today. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeowner_association#History Early covenants and deed restrictions were established to control the people who could buy in a development. In the early postwar period after World War II, many were defined to exclude African Americans and, in some cases, Jews, with Asians also excluded on the West Coast. For example, a racial covenant in a Seattle, Washington, neighborhood stated, "No part of said property hereby conveyed shall ever be used or occupied by any Hebrew or by any person of the Ethiopian, Malay or any Asiatic race." In 1948, the United States Supreme Court ruled such covenants unenforceable in Shelley v. Kraemer. However, private contracts effectively kept them alive until the Fair Housing Act of 1968 prohibited such discrimination. By requiring approval of tenants and new owners, HOAs still have the potential to permit less formalised discrimination.

[@sams.7448]

I own a townhouse (my starter home) that's a part of an HOA. I love it where I live. It's quiet; it's clean; we can have pets, and the only real dues we pay go to snow removal and lawncare. I don't really care about changing my house either, so this was a great option for me.

[@joezupko]

I’m not sure what the obsession with everyone wanting to paint their house or do other weird mods is all about haha For me the less work the better

[@mick4563]

Ikr same. I love just putting my trash in the HOA dumpster and wait for garbage truck to pick it up when it's trash day. Very convenient.

[@soccerjoker95]

My neighborhood is mixed. Some houses are under HOA and others aren't. Some people can park on the street, have trailers, work vans and they can't tell them anything. If I don't cut the grass because it's been raining on and off for 3 weeks I get a notice.

[@JUGGERNAUT____]

Despite HOAs dubiously nefarious origins, this video highlights the intended purpose of HOAs but fails to mention the strict enforcement of arbitrary rules.

[@Eltartaro_2050]

I will never buy a house with an HOA. A lot horror stories and a lot people losing their home 🏠

[@charleshunt3806]

I’ve heard way too many bad stories about HOA is I would never buy a house that has an HOA screw that

[@Uchi_Soto]

I will never buy into paying an HOA so they can tell me what I can and can't do in a home with a mortgage & insurance I pay for.

[@SpacedOut997]

The first major HOA was also in the first major suburb development, Levittown, which was also a notoriously racist housing development. Many functions of the HOA were designed to exclude POC

[@shinrasboy]

Weirdly enough, I don’t mind the HOA’s that I’ve lived at. As long as everything is clean and orderly it’s fine. I now live in a neighborhood with no HOA. Absolute nightmare. Got a guy across the street who works on cars day and night clinking and clanking about. Plus he’s something of a con artist so lots of altercations with his customers about swapped parts, shoddy work and such. Last time a gun was pulled and an on-foot manhunt was called in and they closed the road. Got the neighbors next door running a karaoke carnival day and night and the other neighbors across the street having a competing party with them. I’ll be moving soon. I see the value of both. While there are downsides to both, I’d rather have the HOA if it means some modicum of quiet. There has to be something for everyone though.

[@Deqster]

Nothing in the CCNR's about the threat of combustion to keep your HOA board in line. "Dad are we setting fire to the neighbor's house??" "Yes, we arson." 👀

[@catherinebaldwin6580]

I’m actually looking to get a HOA property after graduation. I’m glad you showed both sides of the story. My mom would hate living in a HOA place, but she realized they’re perfect for me. We just have to do our homework with them.

[@I.____.....__...__]

The problem with "doing homework" is that while the hosts of this channel might be able to "look elsewhere" as they said, most people aren't in a position of such privilege to just look elsewhere, most people have to take whatever they can get. 😒

[@happy153ful]

I wonder how many communities survived were single family homes vs condos. I understand condos having HOAs and personally would be happy to have one there. Plus prices going up for a condo with an HOA is obvious since they are likely in popular cities. I would think someone buying single family homes would be doing more things with their personal home vs condo causing far more conflict. Everyone has their own dreams for a home and i can't see everyone agreeing on everything.

[@alarcon99]

The only neighborhood that I’ve lived in where the houses near us were broken into, was in an HOA. HOA communities are at their best, security theater. At their worst, modern day red lining.

[@AtsircEcarg]

It’s frustrating that almost all new construction are an HOA .

[@ntmn8444]

I honestly don’t like HOAs, but when buying a home 7 years ago, I bought an apartment, bc I didn’t need nor could I afford anything bigger at the time, and all apartments in my state are part of an HOA. It just comes with the territory. I absolutely abhor HOAs tho. I can’t wait to buy an actual home. They do nothing.

[@bw0081]

I am in the market to buy a home and this just gave me a good idea of what to avoid!

[@ChristianRRL]

As someone living in a poorly run and mismanaged HOA, I find it hilariously dumb that on average HOA homes only sell for 4% more on average.. NOT worth the cost/hassle to me personally

[@grsmonkey116]

I lived in a townhouse with an HOA. Tried being on the board for a few sessions. In theory, If you have a community that likes nice things… willing to pay for those things… then it will be great. Unfortunately not everyone is on that game plan. Similarly, some people don’t understand a tree removal or water pipe fix or fence might be 1000s. So any ask is met with instant no.

[@UserNameAnonymous]

The biggest problem with HOAs is that you have to agree to abide by rules that don't exist yet. The board might be great and the restrictions might be totally reasonable when you buy the house. A year later, a new board can get elected and go crazy on stupid new restrictions that you hate. Too bad, you can't opt out.

[@alearrowbull8184]

Growing up in a HOA as a kid, led me to having to relive my childhood in my adult hood because the Berkshires condominiums restricted any kids playing outside.

[@abd-animation-22]

So glad HoA doesn't exist where i live I have never even heard of the concept untill now

[@UpperAquatics]

Is it even possible to abolish an already established HOA? Like if all the residents said we don't want this anymore, could it even be done?

[@ILikeBigCatsAndICannotLie]

I used to live in an HOA community they charged the same as neighboring communities even though they had no pool, playground or park. They also failed to prevent businesses from building right next to houses. They were great at fining for weeds (sometimes a single one), garbage cans, toys etc. though. I don’t miss them. ;)

[@Nate-bv9su]

If you are buying a Townhome or Apartment, there is no way around an HOA in the form of Condo association or Co-op because of the structure of the building and common elements. My advice: If possible, ask to read the by-laws and any separare rules and regulations addendum before you buy. After you buy, get yourself elected to the board.

[@LazerLord10]

No noise allowed Unless of course it's the constant yardwork.

[@Vospader21]

I find that 85% satisfaction rating suspect. All of my experiences with my hoa have been tenuous at best. And every story I ever hear about an HOA on the internet is always one form of horror story or another.

[@allenkellogg7499]

people who like their HOA don't complain on the internet.