Should You Disconnect the Neutral Wire on Generators

[@OUFan2]

It would be nice if the manufacture would put a switch on the generator, that you could switch from bonded to non-bonded. I know people would mess up when using this switch, but it would be nice. Since I was an electrical contractor for 45 years, I think I will do this myself. Good video.

[@AlissaGrieves]

Can you share the details on what switch you would buy and hook up? Assuming I can get a 30amp or 50amp switch and just keep it grounded but go between the jumper wire and its other unmarked connection

[@OUFan2]

@@AlissaGrieves I am sorry I can't tell you how to do this project, because it would make me liable. Since such a switch doesn't come on a generator then your warranty would be no good. There is a video online that shows how to do this, but it is not a from me. You could talk to one of your local electricians.

[@robturner7853]

Back to A type Video that I 1st watched about pressure washers from Doc!!! Had no idea you did lawn stuff too!!!! yrs have passed since and Still relevant content!! Thx Brother...

[@DLong-wp8su]

Thanks for clarification bonded vs float neutral. It seems the easy way would be add an ON/OFF switch (ON=bonded, OFF=float).

[@paultice610]

Excellent point great video. I have two smaller inverter generators. I have a 3500 w fully enclosed. I also have a 4550 open frame the open frame was neutral bonded I put in a toggle switch so I can bond it at the flip of a switch. If I’m using it not tied to the house I have an interlock. I just don’t run my 240 devices since it’s 120 but I can parallel them together and get 6000 W if I need to, which is more than enough to run the refrigerators heat and microwave or hot plate to cook on most the time. I just run one my 3500. I average around 12 hours on about 2 gallons of gas the 4550 holds about 3 1/2 gallons says it can do 18 hours at a quarter load haven’t tested that yet but I have a conventional 7000 W generator and it definitely uses lot more gas than the invertergenerators.

[@Fast1Guy]

Just to add a quick note. If you use a separate manual transfer switch generator panel, some break the 2 hots and the neutral creating a separately derived system for the generator and then requires a bonded neutral and the generator grounded. This is the system I have and prefer it as I can use the generator for camping without messing with the bonding.

[@AlbertoRancel]

You’re the man thank you for getting to the point so fast

[@douglasbarnhart3324]

Thanks Doc for the video.

[@ripmaster896]

Hey doc lawnmaster here hey what does your old Bermuda lawn house look like now I would love to see you do a short video on it if you could. You should make another chipping green at the farm property it would be awesome.🏆

[@adamghazal9204]

Thanks Doc

[@mark31383]

Do you have that link to that hurricane video? Thanks

[@GamerNxUSN]

Pretty sure that is the video he is referencing.

[@glennmorris659]

If you have a transfer box do you still disconnect ground ? Glenn

[@MichaelP-ns]

I added a label to the generator to indicate it's been changed to a floating neutral in case I die so the next user knows. And I have a plug that I can plug into one of the generator's power outlets that "re-bonds" it if I need to use it standalone

[@thomasdragosr.841]

I don’t like the idea of a floating neutral in case the generator is used independent of the home. My Ryobi generator has a ground lug on the generator casing. I drove an 8 ft. ground rod which I connect to the lug. I did not land the ground wire that comes from my home distribution panel inside my 30amp receptacle. This does the same thing as lifting the neutral wire in the generator. After all of that, tomorrow I am having a Kohler 20kw generator installed. Runs on natural gas and will power everything in the house. I know you see “Generac” everywhere but I recommend Kohler.

[@MichaelP-ns]

Ground rod at the generator has nothing to do with the problem with multiple neutral bonds. In fact, adding a ground rod actually isn't recommended when using it attached to your house's system, only if it's not connected to the house's ground when in operation. If you're worried about using it as a standalone generator, get a neutral bonding plug that bonds neutral to ground when you plug it into one of the generator's outlets

[@jasondcarney]

What’s the negative for having both the generator and the breaker panel grounded?

[@MichaelP-ns]

Multiple paths for current to flow, half could end up at the generator and half at the panel.

[@thomasdragosr.841]

Electrical code requires only one path to ground.

[@spacecoastkid5033]

Doc missed an important point. If your Main breaker panel is not the Main Disconnect, meaning there is a disconnect panel by your meter, that disconnect will have the bonded neutral, not the Main breaker panel Then, if your main panel has an interlock, which is code when you use a generator, that interlock segregates the main breaker panel from the disconnect, so you would still want the bonded neutral on the generator.

[@DozIT]

Okay, if a generator hooks up to a subpanel with interlock (ground and neutral NOT bonded), you should not alter your generator?

[@HowTowithDoc]

Your panel is bonded... they all are unless you have a special SUB panel. If your generator is NOT bonded... then don't do anything. Most gens are bonded just look at the main label / front and it will say.

[@mainstreamiscool]

Hi Doc, what is that plastic bin called?

[@HowTowithDoc]

This is the one we ordered but there are others. amzn.to/4dWwkwK We like the lift roof with assist hinges.

[@mainstreamiscool]

@@HowTowithDoc Thank you!

[@Moondoggy1941]

I just came home from buying for fuel for my generator for the freezer and fridge to only find the freezer door was open and even a 4 pound roast was nearly defrosted and other things were in different form of defrost, closer to the door more it was defrosting over in the back and buried more frozen, any ideas of how to go forward. Thanks

[@vanderpoolfarmsl.l.c.9983]

Connect the neutral wire to a selector switch.

[@RM.-_-.]

Do I need to ground it if I'm just using it with an extension cord?

[@milesmccarty1005]

Why not install a key type switch..... Best of both worlds.

[@HowTowithDoc]

Yes, there are vids out there about doing that

[@blaiselamielle6702]

Would it be more efficient to have a battery/generator combo. Then, the generator runs at near full load only for a short period, and the battery handles the shifting load demand. Yeah, I know some generators adjust to loads, but I doubt it's as effective as a gen/battery combo.

[@cprice1]

That is what I did. My battery can run my fridge for 8 hours. I have two of them. It takes 1 hour to charge them both up with the generator. The generator can do that 10 times on a 20 lb tank of propane or 2 gallons of gas.

[@HowTowithDoc]

You'll see it in an upcoming video

[@AuldHowker]

you seem to have found the only Generator that does not have a floating neutral.. Honda, Firman Westinghouse all have floating neutral so you dont need to separate ground/neutral. In fact you need to buy a ground to neutral adapter if you furnace need a ground neutral bond to run. Lots of furnaces now heed Ground-Neutral bonded.

[@HowTowithDoc]

Most FRAMED generators are BONDED. I even went to the Westinghouse website and every one I pulled up was bonded to the frame. It will show the symbol on the front as well. westinghouseoutdoorpower.com/blogs/westinghouse-blog/float-the-neutral-wpro8500-wpro12000-wgen12000

[@bobk469]

My Wen 1800W generator has a frame and was NOT bonded out of the box. I bonded the neutral to the ground and added a label to indicate. I only use the generator with an extension cord.

[@AuldHowker]

@ bonded to the frame yes but not to neutral. You are not understanding the difference between ground neutral bonding & ground bonding to the frame totally different. Of course all gennys have frame bonding that’s code but they ALL have a floating neutral so you can use connected to a transfer switch you use your home ground/ neutral. Is you bond your ground & neutral then connect to transfer switch you have 2 neutral paths. Not safe.

[@ronhawkins8604]

Watched this and then decided I needed to know. As with almost everything on earth the answer is "it depends". My generator connects to a disconnect box at the power pole that contains a 200a breaker for commercial power and a 50a for the generator. The generator is bonded but I've run this several times with no issues so I had to find out more. Called The manufacturer, Wen and their technician said in that case it is not an issue. If the generator was feeding into the main cb panel for the home or some other sub panel after the power company input then it must be floating on the generator. He said I could disconnect the bond in the generator but is not necessary in my installation. Go figure

[@HowTowithDoc]

Your input is prior to the cb panel which is unusual. In that case I would have an electrician check it. The main issue will be multi PATHS which can throw GFCI switches. If you don't have issues I would leave it.

[@jasondrummond9196]

But couldn't i just not wire the neutral into my L14 plug so that when it's connected to the generator there's no neutral to begin with?

[@HowTowithDoc]

No, neutral wire is part of the PATH

[@wingloading]

Actually just not wire the ground from the generator. You can then leave its bond in place since it will remain isolated from the home's bonding.

[@GoldSeals]

Ok,I think I follow you now about removing the neutral bond at the generator..The neutral itself still goes from the generator cord at the generator to the panel..Whew,I thought you meant disconnecting the white neutral wire that goes to the cord,which would mean you would only have 220 volts at the panel without the neutral there.

[@HowTowithDoc]

It's only on the gen itself. There is one point where the two connect.

[@bobmercer1816]

The bond between the Neutral and the Ground needs to be split, it gets connected together in the panel.

[@NickConteSC]

My electrician ran a wire from my panel in the house to the frame of the generator. I assumed that was a ground wire. Is this ok?

[@HowTowithDoc]

I've never heard of that... I might have someone else come look at that.

[@SRCardow1]

Yes that not right ​@@HowTowithDoc

[@raulsanchez4493]

If you have natural gas piped in you should be able to run your generator all the time

[@HowTowithDoc]

Until the compressor stations loose power. We plan long term.

[@dennisheflin2680]

I’ve never done this to my generator, why is this necessary? If you mentioned it I missed

[@cgreever1]

I need to disconnect the ground to make my F150 lightning. Instead of modifying the inlet box or generator, why not create a cord?

[@cgreever1]

or better yet, a neutral bonding plug.

[@aussie2uGA]

Yep, the tesla complains too unless it sees a neutral bonding plug.

[@efraingonzalez4408]

What happens if I don’t unbond my inverter and plug it into my house? ie leave it neutral bonded and use my 50amp interlock kit to power up the house, what can actually happen?

[@CJRock-xn5qf]

Free advice on the internet is rarely accurate and this is another example.

[@turbodog1542]

What does that mean?

[@wingloading]

I leave my generator bonding in place but when connecting to the home ONLY connect the neutral. Not connecting the ground isolates the generators bonding from the home's.

[@takeitwithyou4391]

Please do not do this. Please talk to an electrician. "Not connecting the ground isolates the generators bonding from the home's" ALSO removes the direct ground fault path back to the source of power (the generator). This is a dangerous setup. Why? When some device in the house, let's say the furnace, has an electrical issue and energizes it's frame there is no EASY grounding conductor path back to the generator. Electrons WILL be trying to get back to the generator through the BONDED neutral at the main panel. But, probably not enough electrons will be able to travel through ANY and ALL paths back to the generator to trip its breaker. This is the danger. Somebody unknowingly touches the frame of the furnace creating a NEW path back through themselves which can kill/injure/shock. Consider yourself lucky if you only feel a strange tingle. Experienced electricians (old timers, still living) have described instances of this tingle situation to me. No wonder electricians wear appropriate gloves these days when working on "dead" equipment.

[@HowTowithDoc]

I agree

[@wingloading]

@@takeitwithyou4391 Help me understand. In a furnace fault where the current finds its way back via its ground will then travel through the panel bonding and subsequently the neutral (of adequate load) to the generator. A dead short should normally trip the panel breaker first. How would extending the grounding in the panel to the generator that's not bonded be safer?

[@wingloading]

@@HowTowithDoc From DuroMax generators manual...Note: If the generator is connected to a home, then it won't be necessary to attach the separate grounding wire and you can opt to use your home ground instead.Please see a certified electrician for further options with grounding your generator.

[@takeitwithyou4391]

​@@wingloading I was about to reply to your response from about a day ago (I will do that soon) when I saw this post. I quickly checked a few DuroMax generator manuals. I saw that this same "Note" you quoted was in all of these manuals REGARDLESS of whether or not the Neutral was bonded on that particular generator. And, btw, you left out the following which comes after what you quoted: "WARNING: Failure to properly ground the generator can result in electrocution." Now, this warning was appropriate for the entire section or "Step X" of a manual but you only quoted the "Note". My wild guess here is most people will never need to do this step for their safe use of a generator. So, I will leave this Step unstated. A good rule to keep in mind when complying with manufacturers manuals is to also comply with the National Electric Code (NEC). In my mind, when there is a conflict, the code should take precedence. If somebody does not understand the code then by all means hire a licensed electrician, as you posted.

[@boford6742]

Wouldn't it be much easier to alter the pigtail rather than the generator?

[@salifuharuna6849]

Honda EU7000iS 0.3 gal/hr. Whisper quiet and Pricy!

[@socrates2706]

These generators suck up a LOT of propane. I hook up to natural gas, but always have a supply of propane and gasoline in reserve in case the natural gas lines lose pressure for a variety of reasons. Also, I never rely on only one generator.

[@HowTowithDoc]

Correct... like WATER... natural gas compressor stations need power to work long term.

[@socrates2706]

@@HowTowithDoc And uprooted trees can damage the lines. Also, too many generators running simultaneously in a common area can reduce pressure to the point of fuel starvation.

[@spresc2180]

This begs the question of why then do all connecting cords which connect your portable generator to your service panel (transfer switch) have a neutral wire within the cord. I watched 2 video’s on This Old House on connecting a portable generator to a house panel and neither mentioned the need to disconnect the generators neutral wire and neither does the DeWalt manual for my unit. I suspect this is a so called wives tale making the rounds.

[@HowTowithDoc]

If you don't and your connection feeds into you main panel, you'll have TWO PATHS. By code there should only be ONE connection between N and G. Plenty of electricians explaining this issue.

[@TheViking34482]

Why can't you just disconnect the neutral wire on the plug

[@BOB12349307]

remove the green wire do not remove neutral

[@johnclyne6350]

Or do one better. Hire an electrician like I did. That takes the guess work out of it. If you don’t & you make a mistake? You could damage your home or appliances.

[@lmdetect]

I'll bet I've seen 50 videos on how to hook a generator up to a home. How come no one is talking about this neutral wire? Weird.

[@HowTowithDoc]

Just google it... there are over 100 videos talking about floating neutral on generators

[@lmdetect]

Thank you sir. I appreciate your vids. A lot of useful info. ​@HowTowithDoc