Should you Earth Bond an Inverter to a Vehicle Chassis

[@GadgetJohn]

As some viewers are getting really confused I just wanted to clarify the following… “residual current device (RCD) is a safety device that switches off electricity automatically if there is a fault. RCDs are far more sensitive than normal fuses and circuit-breakers and provide additional protection against electric shock” Source - www.ddfire.gov.uk/residual-current-devices-can-save-lives There are many more resources that explain how an RCD helps protect you from fatal electric shocks and faulty appliances possible catching fire. The internet is a great place to learn, so please use it. I’m happy to learn too, but I prefer to learn from facts rather than opinions.

[@ahoyleisure]

This is a cracking post John. We distribute the Clayton Power systems and I’m constantly getting told the unit should have a consumer unit to comply with regs. The unit has an inbuilt RCBO which means the consumer unit isn’t needed if you don’t want one. RCDs can protect against electric shocks, residual currents, and earth faults. On the other hand, RCBOs can do what RCDs can do and protect a circuit from short circuits and overload. RCBOs are essentially a combination of MCB and RCCB. As such, it can protect overload and short circuits. Really good point well made 🤙

[@simonbarlow7410]

My two cents on it John is that the powers at be seem to want to treat a motorhome, caravan or camper van with the same regs as you would use for a house. My simplest thought on it is that when you plug in on EHU all you are plugging in is a fancy extension lead... so according to current wiring regs you treat the caravan, motorhome or camper van as an appliance that can be unplugged from the mains.

[@davidcoton2925]

Hello! Just seen your video! If the motor home is made/built in the uk it MUST comply with the IEE 18th regulations. It states you must connect the earth to chassis and have an rcd for you safety. Rcd generally isolate (trip) in 30milli seconds. Not wiring 240v ac systems correctly will invalidate your insurance.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

So you have to carry and bury an earth rod if you're wild camping?

[@davidcoton2925]

@@rogerstarkey5390only if you are a commercial instillation. The main reason for the regs are to keep you safe, also if there is a fire caused by dangerous wiring your insurance is invalid.

[@johnrea2115]

@@rogerstarkey5390 think I will go with a 10lbs hammer for installing the earth rod, be a bugger to retrieve though

[@tommo9757]

Don't forget that the IEE regs only represent "beat practice" and are not legally enforceable. However, if death or injury results from non-adherance you would be required to justify your practice in a court.

[@spacerabbitk]

Hi. I'm building a non wall plugged desk system that uses an 1000w inverter and lifepo4 batteries. Should I ground the inverter to the chasi and install shock protecrion? I believe you provided a good explanation about the topic I was looking for.

[@gavcnr]

John, Even though it's not generally needed, some equipment won't work without it. For instance, an EV charger won't work unless you ground to neutral. I have an e-NV200, and having a backup for charging from a 12V inverter is a plus.

[@andrewmillerphotography]

Great video and answered the question I was looking for! For shore power I'll use the tent camping extension with RCD + plugs sockets built in; and connect that to the Renogy. Cheers again

[@markfrancis8623]

Hi Jon, I have a very similar set-up to yours, I have not bonded my Renogy inverter to the chassis. I do not have an RCD after the inverter but in a slight departure to yours I do have one on the 240V coming into the van (before it plugs into the inverter) the reason for this is that even though when I am on a site the site will have a trip when I am at home and plug into the mains would be relying soley on my domestic ring protection which is not that safe.

[@CC-me1ky]

Thanks dude, you just saved me from a hell of a mission. Cheers

[@backontwowheels9469]

I have read some of the comments and have listened to your views. This reminds me of the time when plastic pipe work was being introduced into construction and the fact that by taking an earth to the bath, you are introducing a fault path to what would inherently be an insulated area, I digress. However, in general terms your earth should be clean and is used as a protective measure to allow passage of FAULT current to earth rather than using a persons body. The reason the RCD was introduced was because the previous methods of protection only provided protection for a live/earth fault (actually described these days as line/earth because both conductors as seen as live). It did not have the means to detect if there was a neutral earth fault. Therefore the device detects an imbalance between line and neutral (so could be a neutral/earth fault) and trips within a pre determined timeframe in milliseconds. There is, I believe a just reason not to earth to the chassis and that would be because you are linking a DC system to an AC system. I think the answer could be to have a separate insulated (from Chassis) earth bar picking up the inverter earth, should there be one and any 240V sockets that you install that would be linked to a shore supply at a campsite etc, therefore utilising the safety offered by the mains electrical supply that you would then be linking to. Electrical equipment like computers tend to dump to earth, which, as you say, you do not want interfering with the DC system. Also there is no way that you can maintain an earth while driving at 70mph down the motorway. Also if you go for double insulated equipment you don’t have to have those rcd protected.

[@bathroomjon1]

Thanks Jon - I’m about to redo my system including solar and I’m studying your installation- hope you don’t mind 😅😊

[@darrenjones5885]

Are vehicle tyres electrically conductive? They’re rubber so should be insulators unless something conductive is added. Having a 240V AC connected to an unearthed vehicle body could mean the route to earth is through somebody touching it, which is exactly what you don’t want. Different if it’s on hookup as the earth to the vehicle is connected to earth via the hookup.

[@welshieonwheels]

Thank you , I’m a spark I got told off when I said you don’t need to earth the RCD , but although you should in a house , the RCD like you said is looking for an imbalance between the live and neutral coils ( what goes out got to come back ) Although I do ground my consumer unit in my van I probably won’t ground my inverter when I get one . What’s your opinion in keeping the battery charger plugged in and charging when at a camp site . Thank you John well done good luck 👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇬🇧🇨🇦

[@paulluggar5964]

I just deleted what I first wrote because in theory the power banks output is an isolated supply, usually 110v on either conductor with 220v between them both. ( not always!) If you touch one conductor and touch earth (not the metal case of the invertor) you cannot receive a shock as there is no path back to the supply to complete a circuit. It's the same way a shaver socket in your bathroom works. I have no idea how the invertor can shock protect against touching both conductors though. A shaver socket can only supply a tiny current but a big invertor could kick! Try it, use a multimeter to one side of the power banks output and the other to the earth of your camper, there should be no reading. I think John's right on this one, but an invertor with built in RCD would be good. If you connect mains to the camper it becomes a special location needing a 30mA RCD and double pole overloads. You then need to bond the chassis as for example if you plugged in at home it's usually TNCS/PME earth that can do funky stuff if there is a neutral fault on the suppliers side! 👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@SynthToshi]

I plan to use this with direct solar to DC Side. If clouds block the sun and there isn’t enough solar power, it will switch to AC power. When the sun provides enough light again, will it automatically switch back to using DC power?

[@-PORK-CHOP-]

Interestingly my Australian Renogy 2000W, socket tester will show error with no earth when running on 12V, once you plug it into 240V the tester shows the output to be correct and earth connected, I would have liked if Renogy would have built in a RCBO, so you wouldn't have to get different advice on if one needs to be fitted, Redarc, and many others have built in RCBO.

[@sayhello2pedro]

Hi John, thank you in advance for the advice you have given this far. I’ve got a Renogy 3000w pure sign wave inverter and following your advice has made sense. I just wanted to ask if I should be earthing my Lynx distributor to my caravan chassis given that my 240v is also grounded to that? Thank you again

[@andand4964]

Many thanks for very valuable info.

[@geoffcampbell7846]

Another good discussion video, John. Very interesting. I need to find the British Standard to find out what prompted this inclusion in the regs. I'm sure more good practice advice will in time come out, but I can't fault your logic for your system. It seems to have all the protection it needs. 👋

[@ronster1791]

If you ground your 240v to the chassis all well and good, but in a van how do you earth the chassis, tha whole van is sat on 4 rubber insulated tyres so cannot get to earth .unless you fit an earth cable to ground

[@Bobtheguilder]

Seen loads of discussion on this, for every opinion there seems to be a counterpoint. This thread may help clear up. A electrical engineer advised me that earth means earth, if your not connected to the ground your not earthed. On hook up the power mains should be bonded to chassis. If not on hook up vehicle would need an earth spike for ground to be effective. After that I said thanks, I couldn't see me hammering a 3ft steel rod when stationary, would I then need a lightening conductor. Thinking of going non electric, anybody got some gas mantles😢

[@annemarsden2323]

Thanks for that info 😎

[@garagefaff]

I get what you’re saying but i’m not convinced that the Renogy inverter has the relevant protection. I’ve emailed them several times asking for details and basically been fobbed off. When put on a tester it does nothing.

[@johnrefoy6916]

Hi John, Interesting video. I have the same 2000w Renogy Inverter, which is brilliant, I'm sure you will agree! All this talk of earths... the case on the Renogy has an earth point on it, which I'm presuming is just to earth the case, in the event of it becoming live somehow. Should you, in you opinion, connect this to an earth point in the van? This is, indeed, a a very hot topic on the social media platforms!! I see many people pushing for AC earths, some distance from any DC earth, and RCD's as standard. I currently use a portable 'tent' hookup (as featured in the video), which because its not fixed and has built in RCD, I feel is a good compromise!

[@GadgetJohn]

It’s interesting because it’s very uncommon to have DC earths, not many devices using DC would even account for an earth in their connectivity. I use the hookup with RCD (as shown) due to the fact I’m rarely hooked up to mains power and this cable has 3 pin sockets which allow me to plugin my mains chargers without changing my internal mains wiring.

[@sipepguru]

@johnrefoy6916 I have the 1000w renogy, i posted about getting a small consumer unit on the output side of my inverter and was told it won't work.. are you saying you are using tent / portable mains hook up on the output side of your inverter? Thanks

[@wesleyjeggo2275]

So does renogy 2000w jave an earth point i can connect to a grounding rod? Wanting to charge a tesla from solar and confused by bonding and grounding issues. Just want solar power to charge the car.

[@nguyendang9752]

I have a dual battery system in my vehicle and a battery shunt installed aswell. Would you recommend I connect an inverter directly to the battery terminals or earth to the vehicle.

[@Coffeevaners]

I guess electrical regs take presidence for insurance purposes if nothing else. Personally RCBOs are the best solution but as you say its not essential. it wasn't too many years ago (30 years ago) when I qualified as a sparky that many homes didn't have earth's at all.

[@DA11NOON]

Great vlog John 👍 thanks 👍

[@anfieldroadlayoutintheloft5204]

good vid onj the channel on the travels thanks lee

[@LeisureBit]

Hi John, interesting topic. Out of interest have you tried a socket tester with RCD test button built in on your inverter? I know my current (pardon the pun) inverter doesn’t have a built in RCD and others have said that the one you have doesn’t either but don’t have one to prove it out, get the overload and stuff though. Also know some you shouldn’t bond the neutral and some are. Floating is probably safer as I think you were saying (unless you get your fingers across live and neutral) as no potential difference then. All the best, David 👍

[@pulsenation]

I have a Renogy inverter with an earth terminal on it. You should not Earth to the chassis of the vehicle that would be deemed a false earth, what you should be doing is driving a copper earth rod available from any hardware store in to the ground outside your vehicle. Run a single core wire from the earth rod to the inverters earth terminal. Then plug in your martingale which will show you an earth present, making your system safe off grid. 👍🏻

[@mikedixon8007]

Thanks John, ive been wondering about this for a long time.

[@lezbriddon]

My inverters AC output side is just L & N. But being cheap it's built like an American split phase so the L is 110v AC to battery ground/van chassis and so is the N..... this means I can't use any RCD downstream of the inverter

[@sipepguru]

What make is your inverter?

[@etiennesilvestre9113]

Hi John! Great video, thanks! I am having an issue with the touchscreen on my phone and the trackpad on my computer when charging them through my 2000W pure sine wave Renogy inverter, I'm wondering if you've ever come across this and if you have a solution? This problem doesn't happen when charging using the same adapter in a normal mains socket. Thanks!

[@GadgetJohn]

That’s because you’re using 12v to create 240v and then 240v to convert to 5v usb. It’s called dirty power and many people have made the same mistake, so don’t worry. You need to get some usb sockets that are powered from 12v - like these amzn.to/3YflNIM

[@etiennesilvestre9113]

Ok great thanks 👍🏼 will I be able to charge my MacBook from a usb though? It charges on a 40W usbc normally 🤔

[@GadgetJohn]

This is what I use for my MacBook amzn.to/3LCXLQs

[@etiennesilvestre9113]

@@GadgetJohn Awesome, thanks!

[@daz1665]

Hi John I have two agm 110amp batteries can i run an inverter and if so what size Thanks Daz

[@jinx547]

Hi John, The argument for earthing seems to be this: RCD would not trip and the unfortunate person would effectively be another appliance drawing power as there would not be an imbalance. Someone explained the reasoning but the comment seems to have disapeared. I dont fully understand the subject so could you explain why you believe this isnt the case ?

[@GadgetJohn]

I removed the comments due to dangers of false information. There’s a pinned comment here by me with a link to a succinct explanation of how an RCD works, the link isn’t opinion nor is it from an uneducated “sparky”, and the easiest answer is a quick google search “does an RCD protect against harmful electric shocks. RCD constantly monitors the electric current flowing through one or more circuits it is used to protect. If it detects electricity flowing down an unintended path, such as through a person who has touched a live part, the RCD will switch the circuit off very quickly, significantly reducing the risk of death or serious injury. www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/guidance/safety-around-the-home/rcds-explained/

[@clairethorne5121]

Couldn’t agree more with what you’ve said and we didn’t earth our van 🚐 for the same reason.

[@davesamatvillagecabs8658]

Makes sense..

[@wesleyjeggo2275]

Hi John. Would you think a Renogy 2000w inverter is 'Bonded'? As I wanting to charge a tesla from solar, and know the mcu charger can be fussy about grounding.. Read alot about some people conecting earth-neutral to make it work. But do know if renogy inverters are pre bonded

[@GadgetJohn]

Earth bonding can’t happen in a vehicle as far as 230v power is concerned. It’s all clearly covered in this video. Earth bonding is for grid electricity

[@maddavvid2339]

Morning John, I have just bought the Bluetti C180 and it has a earth screw point on the side of it ?

[@GadgetJohn]

It seems Bluetti had issues with the floating earth system in other models so included an earth on the ac180 but they do say it’s not vital it’s used but will improve safety if you can earth it. Which sounds like they’re trying to cover their a$$ for future problems.

[@maddavvid2339]

@@GadgetJohn cheers John 💙❤️

[@ciderray5868]

Very informative thank you

[@griffinmk1]

I see why. But I also don't see the point as it's not earthed. The only reason you earth negative to a van is to make a circuit. I would say you need to earth the inverter to the earth. As the van is insulated from the ground the only way is to earth the van. Ie a rod in to the ground out side the van on a fly lead?. Unless it's for the purpose of if the van becomes live it will trip the RCD that makes sense.

[@barneyrubble32]

Hi John quick question were did u get the paint for your bumpers from 👍

[@GadgetJohn]

Here’s the link to the paint I use. amzn.to/3Zagg4D

[@barneyrubble32]

@@GadgetJohn thanks mate keep the videos coming 👍

[@wilbearworks]

Hi John. Do you tie your 12-volt negative system to the chassis?

[@GadgetJohn]

In my vehicle electrics it uses negative in the chassis so I’ve used it too.

[@victor007ven]

👍

[@outdoorjunky1]

Hi John Slightly off topic, Have you even ran your power stations from an inverter for charging while driving, Thanks for the videos Gadget 👍

[@GadgetJohn]

Yes, I often charge my power station from my inverter on a long journey 👍🏻

[@outdoorjunky1]

@@GadgetJohn Cheers butty, that’s what I’m looking to do next as solar is pretty poor here in the UK for a large draw, ⭐️

[@brianparker5228]

In your life time if your unlucky you will only ever get one proper electric shock !!! ALL THE REST WERE WARNINGS!!!!

[@Rob.1340]

👍🚐🚐😎

[@linz_in_NZ]

Thanks John, just what I needed to know. Have had an inverter ready to install for ages, but not done it as I wasn't sure about earthing and RCDs, now I know 🙂🏞🚐