Should You Hire a Freelance Novel Editor?

[@samhawkins4952]

You're genuinely the writing youtuber that gives the most useful advice that also people who aren't complete beginners can profit from!

[@rachelthompson9324]

I would add, read craft books. Read many. They all say the same things but in different ways. Sooner or later the concepts will kick in. The conceptual understanding of craft is a gold mine. How-to doesn't answer why and how each craft item functions. Good work Ellen.

[@michaellauritano5252]

Really looking forward to that next video about beta reader feeddback interpretation! Definitely an interesting topic.

[@rad4924]

This is incredible timing because I'm currently thinking of hiring a professional editor due to a) my own editing skills being pretty poor and b) I've been convinced to try self publishing over my original plan to go for a trad publisher

[@smeastwest]

I need to do that, too! Did you already go through a round of beta readers, or are you jumping straight into pro edits?

[@lindagutierrez5409]

You consistently give great, detailed advice. I love editing and I’m doing my own. I will self publish my book. And I’m having fun writing, which is its own reward. Thanks.

[@Augustus087]

I hired three editors for my novel. Cost me about 4k total. Best money I ever spent when it comes to increasing the professionalism of my novel. If one is serious about wanting their story to be the best it could be, they have to be serious about editing. In fact, if you were not busy, I might send my transcript to you, Ellen, but the novel has been polished quite well.

[@Augustus087]

@@DustyBooks2020 The first editor was an author whose book on crafting fiction I highly recommend to anyone: Jordan Rosenfeld and her book was Make a Scene. The second editor was my setting editor who worked to make certain everything I wrote fit within the world it was placed in. He was and is the guru of all things Vampire: the Masquerade, Matthew Dawkins. My third editor is now a full time book reviewer, you tuber Merphy Napier. In Matthew's and Merphy's case, I happened to get them when they were less busy than they are now and lucked out incredibly in doing so.

[@derricklafayette7922]

I just scheduled to work with freelance editor, Susan Chang, who worked at Tor for over a decade. I felt like my trajectory of going from short stories being published, to self publishing books, to then having a book published by a small publisher made sense for me to give Traditional publishing a try. And believe me, I need all the insight I can get. I hired her for query, synopsis, and first ten pages editing. Wish me luck!

[@Thessalin]

As always, you got the best advice. I used three paid beta readers, which completely changed how I looked at things. I had to rewrite from page 1, but well worth the money.

[@SavezthePeeeg]

Thank you for such a great and informative video. I have been writing creatively for well over 25 years and have finally started my first novel...a majestic space fantasy story that spans the universe. Along with many of your beneficial advice videos, I watched Brandon Sanderson's lectures at BYU and with his teaching, something really clicked in my mind with all the writing experience I have. It's been a fun process. I plan to eventually hire a developmental editor and a proofreader at different stages. My novel is about 1 year away, so when the time comes, I am going to reach out to you and try to negotiate work. I want someone of your skill to handle my debut. Thanks again, Ellen!

[@NeilTheMoron]

Honestly these videos have been so fundamental for me to start learning and understanding how to write my novel and publish ❤❤ Thank You

[@miaramck6746]

Can you talk sometime on how to find a quality editor? I've seen a few editors rave about novels that I find sub par. I don't want to pay for an edit from someone who has lower standards than me (which may sound snobby, but there it is).

[@JoyLuxeHieroTarot]

Love your content!! I see there are other KZbinrs with similar content, but yours is accesible, clear, interesting, and inspiring. Thank you!! Your channel is simply the best 🏆

[@arthurpendragon698]

Your content is so valuable. Thank you so much for sharing it with us.

[@EllenBrock]

It's my pleasure. Thank you very much for your support. It means a lot!

[@BlackHermit]

This video came at a perfect timing for me haha Thanks Ellen!

[@stevelunde5683]

Thank you for this. I don't have any of my concerns answered but now I have a good idea about the questions I need to ask.

[@Lorna-JWB]

Always appreciate your content. I had no idea I was not considering major issues until I started watching your videos As for the $100,000 earners in self publishing, Amazon says the majority is no-content books(journals, sketchbooks,adult coloring books, calendar books, notebooks etc.) and not novelists. Last year Amazon said since their inception they have only had 40 NOVELISTS who have made six figures or more and many of those were previously successful authors.

[@EllenBrock]

Good to know! Thanks for sharing. It's rough out there for writers!

[@Lorna-JWB]

@@EllenBrock It is, but in my opinion if you really want a shot at not simply being publish but have a shot at a least a living wage, it is so worth it to immerse yourself in ongoing education in writing and the publishing industry.m-and get to it. I will save my DoorDash money for an editor,then attempt to find the most likely agents to accept my manuscripts. I am willing to undergo agent rejection for 18 months before considering self publishing. If that becomes my fate, I will use my DoorDash money (that I am saving as I get my health in better shape) for quality cover design, editor, and marketing.

[@mariahchantel]

Currently taking notes 📝

[@luiza9253]

Fantastic video. Thank you!

[@munafruit]

you're such a real one ellen this channel is a super valuable resource ty 💖

[@sunsethappy]

This was one of the most useful videos I've ever watched with actual immediate value. Thank you so much for being so detailed and verbose! This was absolutely fantastic!

[@mulatokudzava7797]

Hey, Ellen, nice to see you again!

[@Kurtisie]

No one makes editing videos like you do!! Just finished writing a 99k word first novel. I’ll patiently wait for you to become available for a novel assessment!!

[@matthewmuir8884]

Thanks for the video. This is great timing, as I recently finished the first draft of my first novel. My mother is a self-publishing author who has written and published multiple novels, but she writes novels of an entirely different genre than I write (she writes romance, and I write epic fantasy).

[@pnjodaro]

Can you tell the name of her books? I would love to read

[@matthewmuir8884]

@@pnjodaro She writes the Red Line series of hockey romance books. The first book is Junior "Eh".

[@ella.ztr7]

I loved this video Ellen! (As I always do.) Could you possibly do a video on how story structure in book series work?

[@clarissafraser7229]

I second this. I'm writing a trilogy and I would be very curious your take on structuring.

[@aaj002]

I adore your content. I’m learning so much from your videos, particularly about about story structure and writer types, and recently had this question kicking around in my head. Thank you so much for this thoughtful, thorough, and compassionate discussion of the pros and cons of hiring a freelance editor.

[@EllenBrock]

You are so welcome!

[@storiesbeneaththesurface1942]

You really care about people. You seem like a great person. Great video!

[@crippsuniverse]

Your honesty is refreshing.

[@johnhansen1501]

I think you can learn a lot from other writers as you explain. But I've found that there is a big problem - genre. In the communities I have been in touch with, fantasy, and to some degree romance, have dominated. One thing is that both I and the writers who critique me have to read in genres we don't care much for, but we may give misleading feedback. I could say that some description or other is not needed, not knowing that this is the kind of stuff fantasy readers adore. Basic stuff like unreadable sentences etc. is probably universal, but I do think non-prof editors can only be of limited help outside their genre(s).

[@elenajovkovska4952]

Thank you for all your advice. Video suggestion: you have a book idea, but you want to understand best under which genre it falls best.

[@mezlyndon662]

Great video, as always. It's been super encouraging for me to get a better idea of the different specialty skills that are involved here. I'm about to embark on my 2nd year of learning to write, and it's very helpful to realise that the last year - which has mostly been spent gaining the basics of the 'author' part, I would say (or in other words, learning the basics of creating a story, creating a character arc, digging into theme and what I want to say) - hasn't been directly focused on improving my line editing. So if my story is better, but I still feel like a rubbish writer because the clarity at a paragraph level isn't great, that's totally fine and doesn't negate the improvements I've made overall. I've probably made more skill gain in developmental editing, for example, than I can currently really enjoy in my book, because the line editing issues are clouding the final result. But if I can see the difference clearly, then I can better appreciate the growth. Could just be me, but being able to break down a creative work into the separate professional skillsets that go into it has always really helped me to both value my improvements without being discouraged by other issues and also to identify the areas that could make the most impact by being improved next. Very encouraging video for me; thanks! For me, you are 100% that person you recommend we each find, who explains things in a way that just clicks.

[@jillbrierley8745]

Phenomenal content! Thank you so much, Ellen!

[@zachindes]

Super super helpful info. Great to hear this perspective

[@clairisaphoinix23]

Thank you for doing this detailed video. I learned a lot 🙂 never knew there were so much that goes into different types of editing. And the extra book recommendations & videos are really helpful.

[@Redskirt]

Ellen...thank you. You're the best explainer/teacher on KZbin. (big claim, but there you go 😄) Always glad to see a new video from you. 💛 All the best!

[@EllenBrock]

Wow, thank you!

[@owenspears3114]

I need the Holy trinity, but defs going to prioritise the developmental because mula. Thanks for this vid!

[@1monki]

Another informative video, thanks 👍

[@diegooland1261]

I paid for a developmental editor. It was called an editorial assessment. Was easily worth the money. I spent a year reworking my manuscript based on the feedback. Knowing someone was going to carefully read my work strongly encouraged me to make my manuscript as good as possible before I hired someone to read it.

[@fairlycultured9329]

I just wanted to convey that I like your personality a lot

[@krymsonuchiha14]

This is so useful, because Im starting to self publish my books after I graduate next year and I need this info. Im self publishing only because the first series is a series of novellas.

[@krymsonuchiha14]

@@elementeight8 yea! I'm so excited, and since I'm getting my masters in creative writing and publishing, I can work on most of my book while in school.

[@bloopbloopbloopbloopbloop]

Your videos have been so consistently helpful in my journey! Thank you! I've used so many of your videos to break down and edit my work. I'm wondering, what is your advice for someone who has published in mid sized literary journals (tier 3 in Krause's literary journal rankings), won some awards and grants and is currently querying? I've gotten some full requests but no offers. What is the ratio of full requests that you think shows the query is working, and after how many full requests should you stop querying that project or substantially edit the project?

[@RobertWilson-qb8lo]

Excellent info. Thank you.

[@ameise5245]

I love your content! I am working with editors from my publisher but I totally would love to have you (I chose not to hear that you are not taking new clients). So sad that you're not editing in German.

[@sarahsander785]

What's your opinion on freelancers who work in every part of the editing process? A lot of people I find (at least here in Germany) seem to do developmental, line and copyedits and I always feel like they can't be very good at any of those. Just because as an author I know how hard it is to keep this things seperate and workable. But then I only work with my own novels, so I tend to go blind on some parts of course.

[@EllenBrock]

I think it's possible to be good at all types of editing, but yes, it's probably not overly likely that they are equally good at all three. I probably wouldn't use the same editor for the final pass (whether that be line or copyediting) because fresh eyes will be better as the final line of defense against errors.

[@Artraive]

I would love to hear your thoughts on how well the program prowritingaid hold up compared to a real copy and line editor. 😊

[@stephaniewrites]

This is wonderful advice, thank you so much! Could you advise whether it’s better to go for a big/well-known publishing house vs a smaller one, or a small publishing house and self publishing?

[@phoenixfriend]

Could you hire a developmental editor to go over your outline rather than the full manuscript? I pantsed draft one and now I'm doing lots of outlining for draft two, as I don't want to have to do more than two drafts of major developmental edits. Also, if you can have them look at the outline, how detailed an outline will they look at? Just chapter by chapter or scene by scene? I'm creating a spreadsheet tracking the major plotlines through each scene.

[@EllenBrock]

It depends on the editor. Usually they will charge by the word or by the hour so they won't care how long the document is as long as you are okay with the cost.

[@the101connection]

This is a great channel. I'm about to launch a new online radio station here in Perth, Western Australia and would love to promote the channel on it and restream the audios with your permission. Regards Michael

[@booklanerecommendations]

I struggle a bit with developmental editing. I can identify some of the biggest problems in my plot, but don’t know how to fix them without messing up the rest of the story. For example, I could think of a way to change a plot point that would get rid of an annoying trope, improve pacing and feel more realistic, but it would come at the cost of weakening a character arc that is central to the story. I don’t know how to fix my plot issues and remove or change a plot device-y side character while keeping my well-written main characters’ arcs intact.

[@EllenBrock]

Sometimes hiding or dressing up a trope or plot device is an easier option. Try giving the element additional value. For example, a side character that is a plot device could also be comedic relief or could challenge the protagonist emotionally somehow, doubling up on function and better "hiding" the true plot device purpose of the character. Hope that helps!

[@booklanerecommendations]

@@EllenBrock Thank you so much for your reply! That's great advice in general, but at first I thought it wouldn't apply to my specific example. I already knew this character was going to be a bit of a plot device, so I already gave him more depth and conflict and made him challenge the protagonists more. But there are still a lot of problems with that chapter, both in general (it's too intense/violent which takes away from the climax in the previous chapter) and the character's role in it. But I thought about it for a while, and I think while I still want to remove this side character (or at least the role he plays in that chapter), I have to change a lot less than I thought. And your advice is great for the annoying tropes (specifically a Big Misunderstanding that the plot hinges on)! So I thought of a possible solution: one of the main characters' moms is also an antagonistic side character, but way more central to the main characters' lives. She is also plot device-y but in a much less annoying way, because she's an over-the-top character who is supposed to be a bit ridiculous. If I have her do the plot device thing this side guy originally did, I think it would work way better. 1. She plays much more of a role in the central conflict, and the Big Misunderstanding would have way more depth if it involves her. 2. She is so over-the-top that the dramatic actions (locking her daughter in a room) would feel in character rather than out of place. 3. Despite being a horrible person, she does love her daughter, so she would be way less violent than this guy who hates her, which would make the whole chapter less extreme so it wouldn't take away from the horrors in the previous chapter. So thank you! You helped me realize I don't have to get rid of the whole 'big misunderstanding' trope or the 'locked in a room' trope, and I like my new idea. This'll still be a challenge to edit, but a much more manageable challenge than any alternative I thought of before, and with better results :)

[@LisnaStoriesWoods]

"Hello, I have recently started writing, and your videos could be a great resource for me. Could you please guide me on how to begin watching your videos? In the beginning, where should I start, and what topics should I explore? I need your assistance to understand this. Your insights and guidance are extremely valuable to me. Thank you!"♥

[@danOH112]

Great video

[@VinnyTheory]

Averages don’t scare me after hearing the premises some of these people think matter

[@wehrmacher]

Just curious about your opinion on apps like grammarly. Is this a reasonable option for line editing?

[@EllenBrock]

I'm not really sure. I haven't looked at it since it first came out. I might check it out and report back!

[@wehrmacher]

​@@EllenBrockyou got back so fast. Thanks. I needed an editor for my question... I was thinking primarily of the copy editor. You're the best. Thanks for staying on your KZbin channel. 🙂

[@smeastwest]

As a reader, I find spelling and grammar mistakes to be really distracting. If I'm reading a self-published book, it's worse. Self-published books still have to fight against the inherent bias that they're not going to be as high quality as trad published books--which isn't necessarily true, but sometimes we can't help our biases.

[@Atom.Storm.]

I couldn't afford it at all. If did hire one or more editors and the book made very little or no money it would be a big hit. That would mean that everything I put out that didn't sell would be financially crippling.

[@transformationgeneration]

Proof reading/Copy Edit up to 50K words = about $600. I write novella's so that's the ballpark I play in.

[@the101connection]

Great channel ellen. I am about to launch a new online radio station, here in Perth Western Australia. I would love to promoteyour channel and restream the audio from your shows, with your permission. Regards Michael

[@seanwebb605]

Really good stuff.

[@melissamurphy445]

I want you to be my editor one day! Haha. When do you see yourself accepting projects again?

[@andrev5992]

Too bad you aren’t taking on new clients, as your very balanced, logical line of thinking aligns well with mine.

[@xChikyx]

my quotes of editing my book were around $25K... So... Yeah, I'll edit everything myself lol

[@marktuen-matthews6292]

In your video Ellen you mention a word count for a debut novel of 80,000 words. Is this the the best word count to aim for?

[@EllenBrock]

Roughly. Somewhere between 75k and 115k is usually fine. It depends a little bit on genre, but more importantly, agents/publishers can typically tell from the query and synopsis whether the word count seems too long (poorly edited) or too short (not properly structured) for the plot/premise. Hope that helps!

[@marktuen-matthews6292]

I'm on target for 94,000 words, so about in the middle of that range :)@@EllenBrock

[@Esfeurell]

18:40 bookmark

[@grafinlady6524]

Can you recommend us some editors?

[@SeanDuranMusic]

You need to do a video on Editing your a grand wizard at editing, or so alleged in your videos Ellen Brock, The Grand Master. Bi%+_!$ +%!!!! Show not tell...

[@nate5eplayer574]

HOW do I find a reputable Editor? So many SCAMS

[@BreinGames]

Does this ever get to a point where you’re no longer the writer? All these edits, is this somehow someone else’s writing and just your idea?

[@seanwebb605]

Some of what you are saying suggests that some would be author's shouldn't be hiring an editor for the developmental side. They really should be taking a writing class. Particularly a class where the teacher or classmates can give them feedback on their early drafts.

[@seanwebb605]

I write as I watch videos. You covered this in the later part.

[@seanwebb605]

Just to summarize; hiring a competent editor can make your book much better but is no guarantee of a financial windfall after publishing. An editor is no guarantee of increased sales.

[@seanwebb605]

As I understand it from a Canadian context an author doesn't earn their income primarily from book sales. An author applies for arts council grants to write their books and enters their works for prize money after it is published. The royalties on any sales are then a form of passive income afterwards. Who gets published? Well academics who experts in their fields tend to work with university presses and can publish their works that may already have been published in other forms in academia. Journalists and sports writers can ghost write biographies or a long form of what they have written as beat writers. Celebrities can be paid huge advances because there is a built in readership and demand for such works. The would be novelist assumes a great deal of the upfront costs with little or no support.

[@PeterMacansky]

[@seanwebb605]

If I had produced/directed your video with you I would have suggested that you started with the last part. It's a good video but a rather long video. What many people probably needed to hear was that they weren't ready for an editor and should take a writing course or work with an editor on their outline etc. Many watching the video might be too discouraged to watch to this important part. You just told them that it could be really expensive and they might not be ready for an editor yet.

[@OlettaLiano]

No. I hold the belief that any proficient writer should acquire skills in both editing and marketing.

[@Cmhrjkyg]

Jesus loves all.He died for all our sins .He wants all to believe in him.He wantsall to try to stop sinning( he will help you).He is the only way to heaven. To get to heaven you must believe in Jesus Christ and what he did we are all sinners. God sent his son Jesus to die for our sins because he loves us. IntheBible, it says “If you declare with your mouth,“Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”Romans‬ ‭10‬:‭9‬ ‭NIV‬