Should you install a main girdle on your SBF?

The internet is full of opinions on main girdles, and it can be hard for a person to find unbiased advice when trying to research whether to use one. In this video, I explain why I decided to install a main girdle on my 289 and discuss some of the challenges that I faced with my particular installation.

[@VGHCX]

Duct Tape and 550 cord is what I have always used to keep my engines bottom end secured. It never fails.

[@billsgarage]

I have plenty of both as a backup!

[@alertgasper]

if you want the absolute perfect cylinder bore shape, decide on a girdle then use it during the boring process so the block gets all the distortion it's going to get.

[@billsgarage]

Agreed - and line hone the mains at the same time! Thanks for watching.

[@iancoachwerksllc]

Trick flow recomends machining the caps in their instructions for their race girdle. My machine shop said to get a girdle. He is a ford guy so he was happy to do the work.

[@billsgarage]

You won't regret it. Thanks for watching!

[@arturozarate1752]

If you want to decrease cap walk, there's a better method(in my opinion). On the 289 and 302 blocks, the main cap threads are 7/16". Drill and tap the block for 1/2" studs. Ream the caps and align hone. I used a DSS main girdle and windage tray on my little motors for years. Every teardown i first looked at the #2 main cap for signs of walk. I went 3 builds before changing tp 1/2" studs. No more cap walking. Done.

[@billsgarage]

Thanks for sharing! I've never heard of that being done before, but I;m intrigued and will look into it.

[@burnz3132]

We’ve done that on full race builds. But I wouldn’t say it’s a easier way of doing it. I would suggest having a machine shop do the step up in size. I’ve seen guys split blocks trying to punch it in with a hand drill. But more clamping force is always a good answer! Lol

[@arturozarate1752]

@@burnz3132 bet! Seen the look on a dude's face after he said, "Pfffft, I'm my own machine shop!" The freshly Drill Doctor'd bit he chucked up in a 20v Dewalt hammer-drill started off-center and liberated the #1 main webbing. 😬😁😂

[@arturozarate1752]

A process best left to a seasoned professional.

[@MrBlackbutang]

I love that’s awesome! It’s the same but only different like the blind in one eyed guy and can’t see out of the other. Thanks I will try these sometime?

[@garywest9062]

Very good definition of a girdle. Appreciate the knowledge cap Walk is important for racing engines

[@billsgarage]

Thanks!

[@xstreetracer3474]

I ran the DSS main support kit back in the 90s stock block 306 9 sec 1/4 mile. With the DSS kit you don't have to machine the main caps or the oil pump. The kit is easy to install and comes with everything you need to just bolt on and go 🦊🐴

[@billsgarage]

Yes, I like the DSS kit and probably should have gone with that over the Trickflow kit - DSS does most of the clearance work for you.

[@arturozarate1752]

@@billsgarage and the windage tray is nice as well. I still use the same that I bought 20 years ago.

[@trxtech3010]

With no boost I can almost guarentee that you never ran a "9 second" quarter mile. Especailly in the 90's dude. High 11 low 12 I can belive but deffinatky not a 9.

[@xstreetracer3474]

@@trxtech3010 you can believe what you want! first 9sec run was at Englishtown 1997 with the white stang in my profile pic. the picture is from Atco 1998 that pass was 9.86@135.9 Stock block rods and crank 306 dart heads comp 5.98 lift cam Vortech s-trim 15lb boost PA c4..🦊🐴 words of wisdom 👉just because you couldn't do it doesn't mean it cant be done 😎

[@alltherpm]

​@@trxtech3010I guess he didn't read the no boost!! Then says 15lbs equivalent to a hole nother engine

[@ferdinandcuevas8457]

If nothing else they can and will prevent cap walk ! I have used both steel and aluminum main girdles and found that the steel full girdle works the best for My application . Thank You for the great content and information , Best Wishes and Best of Luck . 🇺🇸🇵🇷🦊👍

[@billsgarage]

Thanks!

[@ldnwholesale8552]

Alloy expands far more than steel which is similar to iron.

[@georgedreisch2662]

Generally, it’s a good idea to line hone, when switching to studs from bolts, as they torque up differently, for the difference in thread perch in the block. I’ve gone so far as to line hone the crank bore with deck plates and the studs to be used, to approximate the stresses of the assembled motor.

[@billsgarage]

Great advice - and ARP recommends the same in the instructions that come with their stud kits. Thanks for your comment!

[@marksrepairj623]

I had to clearance for the rods and for the counter weights (Stroker crank) plus tap a hole for the oil pick up tube. Good video

[@billsgarage]

Thanks for watching!

[@0to100_RealQuick]

I havent had my L83 built yet but now im gonna check with my tuner about doing this for long life preservation.

[@billsgarage]

Awesome, good luck!

[@k.c.williams3385]

Thank you for the information.

[@billsgarage]

My pleasure, thanks for watching!

[@brucethoel3636]

The correct way to install the girdle is to use spacers, cut the mounting surface of the main caps, install the girdle, torque the nuts down to the torque you are using and have the block line bored so the main journals are round. We never cut the crown on the main caps, they will break.

[@billsgarage]

Decades of practical application prove that the main caps will not break as a result of milling the crown off, I've been doing this to 289s since to 90s. But thanks for your comment and thanks for watching.

[@brucethoel3636]

I have been building engines I have seen main caps break, blocks split, heads split, every thin can and will break if you make enough horsepower and torque. Low horsepower and torque you can get by with inferior work@@billsgarage

[@Turbo89coupe]

Only thing I have found with a girdle , it will keep your bottom end together when the block breaks. And it doesn’t stop cap walk. It will still move.

[@billsgarage]

To each their own.

[@zacz1986]

Agreed. Windsors like to crack in the valley

[@Turbo89coupe]

@@zacz1986 I’ll find pics of mine tonight and post them , went 11.20’s with the timing cut down for 175 shot. On a nozzle went 10.30’s letting off out the back with a 4.10 gear , on sane jets with plate under rpm 2 intake went 10.00’s at 130. Cast iron high ports n-91 camshaft and a c-4.

[@petesmith5092]

​@@zacz1986only ones i EVER seen cracked in the valley was from water freezing....they love to crack from crank to cam journal in the main web. Paticularly if ones leaving as hard as they can. Wich you have to, with no stroke🤭

[@alltherpm]

I had to grind my oil pump too, and also did some to the main stud head

[@billsgarage]

A little nerve wracking while you're doing it, but worth it in the end. Thanks for watching!

[@tonymontana4349]

This works I agree with this guy now use the science of vibration it will contain the vibration issues to an extent as well cap walk I’m sure it will also to me in my opinion it’s to control vibration where it works best I have a complete dss girdle windage tray on my stroker with an eagle forged 408 and all I can say is I’m satisfied

[@billsgarage]

People seem to be so divided by this topic, there's almost no in-between! The DSS setup is nice, I like the windage tray. I'm looking for an excuse to build a 408, I'll keep that in mind if I do.

[@tonymontana4349]

I hear u man you make some great building videos I’m sure that’ll help thousands of people reach that building goal keep rocking brother

[@bradmcgrath358]

Although, if we are talking about the Windsor and its issue of cracking the block. It's known that part of the problem is harmonics in the block and that fitting an alloy mains girdle reduces the harmonics in the frequency that causes the problem and helps prevent the cracking.

[@billsgarage]

Thanks for watching!

[@peanutbutterisfu]

I had the main caps machined on my 347 as well and I 100% believe that’s why it never had the main webbing crack, blow out a main and ruin everything. The reason why I believe in this so much isn’t just because I did it and didn’t have problems but the few people that listed to me like my one buddy that blew 2 motors that had girdles without machining had the next engines mains machined and 10 years later it’s still running the other motors maybe 2 seasons. Also using high quality balancer and engine/trans mounts.

[@billsgarage]

That's great to hear, thanks for sharing - obviously, I couldn't agree more, but it's nice to get feedback from people with actual, relevant experience! So many people with no experience running a girdle are quick to offer their negative comments, but they're meaningless compared to the real-world knowledge of people like you. Thanks for watching!

[@N-Lee]

They make those for small block Chebbies too. It seems like a good idea to me - Less Flex = Less Hex.

[@billsgarage]

Less Flex = Less Hex, I like that! Thanks for watching.

[@Turbo4Joe363]

I thought about all of my options when planning my 347 build. After considering the amount of time and money that I'd have invested in the rotating assembly and a modified roller block, I 'bit the bullet' and bought a Dart 8.2" 4.125 bore block. Now I have a bulletproof 4 bolt main 363 SBF.

[@billsgarage]

Nice, I'd love to have a Dart block but it's not an option for me yet. Maybe for the next build! thanks for watching.

[@ldnwholesale8552]

For many racing classes you must use an OEM block. 363 is good if legal and you can actually buy one!!

[@Turbo4Joe363]

​@@ldnwholesale8552 True, I waited over a year to get my Dart block!

[@kevin2960]

I have built a lot of odd engines, a bunch of Big Block Buick and they really help on a weak block with cap walk. I have also used them on 421 strokers in stock 400 blocks. Always a 509/817 block,no more than .020 over and i use one with ARP studs. Have made just about 800hp and stayed together. Hower 300 blocks do suck.

[@billsgarage]

Thanks for your comments, and thanks for watching!

[@1krista1969]

The problem i have with most girdles is their design, how they attach to the main caps. Most of them just sandwich between the main cap fastener and cap. The issue with that is when the cap is stressed ro the point it starts lifting or moving in the register, it moves the girdle with it since the girdle is no longer held in place. The solution would be to use a nut under the main cap, then install the girdle over top of the torqued stud followed by another nut on top of that. With this scheme the main cap still has a tight grip on the girdle even if the cap starts lifting IOW, the girdle can be far more effective holding onto the cap under load, supplementing the cap rigidity and adding strength. The problem this poses is insufficient clearance to the oil pan under most conditions. You'd need a deeper oil pan in that case. I also agree a well designed girdle will only add rigidity in the horizontal plane. Only a stronger cap design with better clamping to the block will avoid most of any cap walk anyone would encounter at power levels causing significant cylinder bore distortion. Stock roller block 302s are ticking time bombs at power levels exceeding 400 fwhp, especially when high rpms are needed to produce those numbers and especially so with a marginal tune. The 50 oz imbalance is the other weekness, mainly becuase the stock cast crank floos around like a wet noodle at higher rpms. The stress of that happening puts alot of load on the stock 2 bolt caps registers with or without a girdle. A bare factory roller block only weighs about 120 lbs with caps. They are likely one of the weakest V8 platforms I've dealt with. That is why I prefer 351w based builds when a stock block is called for. These also dont have any bolts going into coolant like most newer 302s have.

[@billsgarage]

Interesting that you suggest torquing the main cap stud nuts and then placing the girdle on top of those and retaining the girdle with a 2nd nut - I am experimenting with that exact setup on another 289 block, and it looks like it's going to clear my Milidon deep sump pan with plenty of room to spare. If I go with that at some point, I'll make another video. Thanks for watching!

[@wizzkidelectronics]

late 90s early 2000s we got silly with stock block with a cheap forged crank and better rods 3/8 bolt and a stock block. i used the dss kit and dss pistons ran a 36/30 jets on a fogger and ran well into the 9s stock interior and a c4 and it lived @ 7500 rpm was an impressive 306 ..

[@billsgarage]

Awesome! Thanks for watching.

[@GrandPitoVic]

Yes sir. It helps with walking and flexing, especially with a manual trans.

[@billsgarage]

Agreed, thanks for watching!

[@racerd9669]

The very best stability for any engine is in the tuneup. Most engines that are broken have the tuneup wrong.

[@billsgarage]

True, a main girdle won't help when it comes to poor tuning and abusive driving, but it can help with long-term wear assuming the engine is properly tuned and treated with respect (even when racing).

[@petesmith5092]

​​@@billsgarage Yes, like...never flexing a cold crankshaft, or stop bouncing it off the rev limiter with the laughing gas 😁 both promote vibration migration, for real!😮 If block rigidity is the target, then fill the block. Its just racing, thats all.🤙 🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺 Edit: I believe main girdles are a good idea, & compared to the cost of finding a new block to build, and building it... cheap insurance!

[@glennramsey917]

Im 50 years old .. ive ben working on fords since 1987 .. i never in my life have seen a sbf being destroyd by main cap walk or anything like that .. all ive ever seen is rod bolts or pistons break in stock motors and that was because they was wore out wayyy before ole billy bob lead foot atarted driving it When you put a aftermarket crank rods and pistons in it your block will split before your bottom end gives up .. Im sure a stock crank rod and forged piston with arp rod bolts is plenty strong enough to split the block before the bottom end scatters all this is with a main girdle of corse All the motors I’ve ben in that was deatroyed was due to cast piston or stock rod bolt failure .. or some of them drop a valve but thats a whole nother subjectv

[@billsgarage]

Thanks for sharing your experience.

[@Cougracer67]

DO NOT try to adjust bearing clearance by changing cap torque!! Only use manufacturer torque specs at all times! If the crank binds, something is wrong with the machining of the crank, the main bores, or the bearing inserts. Backing off on the bolt torque will allow the caps to walk and the bolts/studs to fatigue and fail. Over torque may break a bolt and/or distort the block. Do it right the first time!

[@billsgarage]

Great point, and thanks for the comment.

[@user-to5gf8my5i]

I see a Mustang II... Mine is black with 351W stroker 389...I used ARP 1/2" studs for the 429/460 which are 1/2" longer than stock 351W... Grinding both girdle and pump is a must... If Marvin MacAfee uses a gridle in his builds, that is good enough for me...

[@billsgarage]

Nice, that sounds like a great setup! I bought my first Mustang II in 1986, so they've always been a big part of my life - I'm enjoying the fact that most of the knee-jerk Mustang II hatred seems to have faded quite a bit and more often than not I have to tell people what it is! Good luck with yours, there will be plenty of build videos for mine in the future.

[@deanstevenson6527]

Ford Australia used one. Stroker crank, stock 4 inch bore. The si called 250 Pursuit 5.6 liter 369 hp net engine. Found on Factory AU Ford Falcon sedans , sime Fairlanes, and the 250 Pursuit pickup. 🥝✔️🤭

[@billsgarage]

Wow, that's really cool, I had no idea! Thanks for watching.

[@ThePaulv12]

I think I can shed some light why some people view girdles with suspicion. Firstly they're marketed as a panacea for strengthening blocks. Apparently this is by reducing torsional loads. Sometimes opinions have some basis in logic (though I admit not that often LOL). Get this, I was watching a vid where they used one on a BB Mopar. Remember these are skirted blocks like a Ford FE. Anyway the girdle is tied to the pan rail (and the main caps) and you need to run 2x pan gaskets. For the life of me I cannot fathom how a girdle tied to a pan rail with tiny screws sandwiched with a couple of cork gaskets is going to do anything for block rigidity and all I can see it might be good at is producing oil leaks and depriving customers of money. Thing is, it is marketed as stiffening the block. It's a skirted block - it's already stiff and they're known to be stiff like FE's. It could be good if it were doweled in say 8 places, was 3/8th" thick, had a completely revised fastening arrangement for the pan rail; with a purpose built revised oil pan with integrated thick rails designed to accept and clamp substantially larger fasteners. They're instead just selling a specious argument in the shape of a low cost girdle to the gullible ..... It's the snake oil factor people are revolting against isn't it? Re cap walk, space permitting wouldn't you be better off putting studs in the block and using hollow dowels around the studs and machining the caps and block to accept the dowels?

[@billsgarage]

Great comments, thanks! The dowel suggestion is interesting - I'm not sure there's enough room to make that work, but it's something I'm definitely interested in looking into.

[@Alexander-nb1rz]

I filled to the bottom of the freeze plugs hard block and I put 4 bolt mains in.From pro-gram specialist out from Ohio

[@billsgarage]

I'm not familiar with pro-gram, do you have a link?

[@Enigma-Sapiens]

Excellent advice and video! What's your take on using an aluminum main girdle that is also supposed to help dampen harmonics?

[@billsgarage]

Thanks! I've never used an aluminum girdle, but I can see the benefit. If properly tempered, 6061 aluminum alloy has a better strength-to-weight ratio than steel, but is substantially more tolerant of vibration and fatigue cycling, which is why it is commonly used in aviation. For engines that stay at high RPM a lot (like a circle track engine), I think there probably is an advantage to using an aluminum girdle. Thanks for watching!

[@MrBlackbutang]

There great at keeping main caps from recirculating thru the engine.. girdles are minimized cap walk if you have ever looked out a window on airplane see the wing’s moving while flying it is a must. If it didn’t would have stress cracks quickly.🍔🍟

[@billsgarage]

Well, it doesn't matter on small, low performance airplanes, but large and high performance airplanes usually have systems that counteract and dampen wing flex. Airbus uses software to manipulate the ailerons to attenuate wing flex and flutter, while other manufacturers tend to install dedicated actuators called flutter dampers (similar to yaw dampers installed on the rudder). Thanks for watching.

[@JoseGomez-vn7hn]

How about a spacer and a longer drive rod for the pump.insted of grinding the pump. Maybe oil pan clerance problem but worth a try.

[@billsgarage]

Yeah, somebody else suggested that as well. For me, it was easier to just do a bit of grinding than to fabricate a longer oil pump drive rod, but that's certainly an option. If you used a spacer to increase the clearance for the pump, then you could shorten the pickup so that you wouldn't have an oil pan clearance problem. Thanks for watching!

[@robertsmith470]

And cap walk isn't as big of an issue with lower HP motors. So, in a way, it can help handle more power.

[@billsgarage]

Thanks for your comment

[@williamperry4238]

Disregard the Haters! Trick Flow are very competent. I liked their display at SEMA.

[@billsgarage]

Thanks!

[@edsoncaires5974]

Vou instalar no meu 302, um reforço desses trick flow. Vou utilizar taxa de compressão acima de 12,5 , pois ele é álcool! Muito boa peça!!

[@billsgarage]

Obrigado pelo comentário, boa sorte no seu projeto!

[@FairladyS130]

If the caps run close to the girdles a oil scraping benefit should be apparent, nothing like a double benefit from a mod, That bearing clearance torquing of the main caps result was a bit surprising, how about having the girdle actually sit on the main cap and try it that way. I've heard that part of the problem with cap walk is oil getting between the mating surfaces which adds to the problem and that there is an oil excluder available to fix that. You do interesting stuff.

[@billsgarage]

One of the first configurations that I tried was to have the girdle sitting directly on the caps, but that gave me much more problems than setting it up with spacers. I have some ideas, but honestly don't know why that was the case. Thanks for watching!

[@jesse75]

I've taken a couple hundred 5 liter engines apart. The bolts and caps are flooded with oil. That can't be good. On almost every engine, the front main bearing shows more wear than the others. Could be caused by excessive tension on accessories. Or could be an oiling deficiency.

[@FairladyS130]

@@billsgarage Basically too much flexion in the whole arrangement.

[@michaelmorris162]

Im a technician so ima chime in if you dont mind. Normally that would weaken the caps but aslong as all 5 caps are milled perfectly the same wich can be done and the girdle and caps seat perfectly flat on 1 another id think it would work provided you use arp hardware. And i do have 1 thought. I wonder if the girdle is modified to come down to the block so i5 can bolt to the block aswell i wonder if that would eliminate flexing even further.. i could be wrong because things do have to be able to flex slightly to accommodate the harmonics and heat cycles it endures...

[@billsgarage]

Thanks for your comments. I'd love to see someone design a girdle that comes down to meet the oil pan rail. If it were say a 1/4" thick full perimeter spacer on the pan rail then installation wouldn't be affected, although you'd probably need to extend the oil pump pickup too. I'll bet that would stiffen up the bottom end a lot. Too much? Maybe, but I'd be curious to try it out. Thanks for watching!

[@davidmitchell7183]

How does the cost of machining and the girdle compare to a stronger aftermarket block?

[@billsgarage]

A World Products block is about $3800, but I only spent $125 on machine work and $250 on the girdle. But you get a lot more strength with an aftermarket block. A girdle doesn't add strength at all, it just increases stability and reduces cap walk.

[@24theMoney]

For high rpm (6000+) - high hp (400+) sustained use on a 302, a main girdle will help not hurt.

[@billsgarage]

I don't know of anyone who ever regretted installing one.

[@johngrossi5506]

Great video ! I'm considering buying a 347 with a girdle. He says its a 50oz flywheel does this make sense to you.

[@billsgarage]

Yes - pay attention to that closely. The early engines were all 28oz external balance, but beginning in the 80s, Ford switched to 50oz external balance. Either is fine, but you need to make sure that everything matches - if it's a 50oz crank, then you need a 50oz flywheel and a 50oz harmonic balancer. If you used a 28oz harmonic balancer with a 50oz flywheel (or vice versa), you'd have severe vibrations. But, it all depends on the crank, not the year of the engine. You can put a 28oz rotating assembly in an early 90s roller cam block, and you can put a 50oz rotating assembly in a late 60s 302 block, as long as the crank, balancer, and flywheel are all compatible with each other. The other option is internal (sometimes called zero) balance, which you find with some of the forged crank stroker kits like mine. My engine was originally 28oz external balance, but my rotating assembly is internally balanced, so I bought a harmonic balancer and flywheel designed to work with an internally balanced crank. Of course, regardles of whether 28oz, 50oz, or internal, if the engine is apart it's a good idea to have the balance verified by a machine shop to make sure it's good. I wouldn't take an engine apart just for this, but if it were apart I'd consider having it checked. Of course, good machine shops are getting hard to find. I hope this helps, and thanks for watching!

[@glennramsey917]

Im building a 5.0 now and i put a prw main girdle on mine and it came with 2 different thickness of spacers .. i have absolutely no main cap machine work done on mine but the thin spacers between my main cap and girdle allows less than a 1/16 of an inch between the top of the main cap and the girdle … im not looking for hi hp at his rpm with this motor but i am gonna run it hard and this one is gonna get twin turbos . However its going in a ranger for a cruiser carshow type truck instead of a race truck

[@billsgarage]

Trick Flow has a couple of options that are thinner than the one I used and don't require any machine work, they use spacers like the PRW girdles. Thanks for watching!

[@glennramsey917]

@@billsgarage your welcome ole buddy !! BTW I really enjoyed your video

[@glennramsey917]

@@billsgarage i have a milidon main girdle on my 393

[@billsgarage]

Thank you so much!

[@DarkFoxx88]

No stud for the oil pickup tube?

[@billsgarage]

No, I'm running a Milidon 8.5 qt oil pan, and the pickup goes straight down below the oil pump into a baffled sump instead of aft like a lot of the stock pickups do, so I don't need the stud for the pickup tube.

[@JimBascombe]

Yeah i am running a main girdle on mt 427 stroker. All aftermarket. From the block to the top end. So yeah i dið not want to chance the damage from cap walk.

[@billsgarage]

Awesome, thanks for watching!

[@ghostedyoutuber263]

If you have internet fudd's talking sh!t about girdles is a sure sign of why I would make sure I used them.

[@billsgarage]

Ahh, a kindred soul 😂

[@cliffwright9842]

I always thought it was a must have on the SBf with two bolt mains. Although that one looks different.

[@600wheel]

I’ve got a 1989 mustang with 600 wheel supplied by Paxton supercharger and a 331 scat/Edelbrock tremec TKO 600 and every other fantastic part I could find but with the stock block that came in the car and that things been alive since 2008 it’s got close to 30,000 miles on it and I drive it hard and I’m girdled. The Internet says 600 flywheel will immediately kill one of these, NOPE!

[@billsgarage]

That's awesome, here's to another 30,000 miles!

[@600wheel]

@@billsgarage On the way. I love this motor the drivability is beautiful and the power is instant no matter what rpm. Believe it or not stock computer with a piggy back chip. I’ve had a brand new AEM computer that plugs directly into my wiring harness with the stock connecter sitting on the shelf for years because I’m scared I’m gonna lose the driveability. Cheers bro🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺

[@daledavies2334]

The girdle changes the mass and thus natural frequency. This alleiviates the cap walk problem.. The Buick/Rover 215/3500 had cap walk. Rover solved that by cross bolting.

[@billsgarage]

Thanks for the info. A lot of modern block castings fully skirt the mains and stabilize them either by cross-bolting or with jack-screws.

[@daledavies2334]

@@billsgarageNew engines are regularily putting out more power than the engines of the '60s and '70s were not designed for. This increases the stress on the main caps and webs. 4 bolt mains spread that out and cross bolting tranfers some to the sides of the block.

[@edsoncaires5974]

Vou adquirir o item " TFS 5150R700, é esse que você está usando??

[@billsgarage]

Sim, foi esse que usei. Boa sorte!

[@donaldspeck9212]

Wondering if you know of a main girdle made for the 4.6/5.4 mod motors ?

[@billsgarage]

DSS makes a nice one for the 4.6 - you can buy directly from them or from the usual suppliers like Summit. I'm sure there are other kits out there as well. Good luck!

[@petesmith5092]

We put a DSS girdle on our 4.6 Bullitt when we put a Pro-Charger on it. Makes a fair 565 horse at the wheel. The rubber one, not the flyin one. Now, if that order of VHT would show up... ...😊

[@kylerush7948]

What were the torque specs?

[@billsgarage]

For the stud kit that I used, it was 3 equal steps to 80 ft/lbs with lubricated threads.

[@b.snoodleman5864]

Why would anyone think that some extra bracing (anti cap walk) is a bad thing? Obviously it's going to add some rigidity (in this case the tops of the main caps). Why, some people are just ignorant.

[@billsgarage]

It seems to me it's always either people who have never run one at all or it's someone from the turbo/nitrous crowd that rgularly blows up block who are the most vocal aginst using a main girdle.

[@KingJT80]

If anything, ill use steel main caps. Ben Alemda, who knows his shit and was running tens all motor in the late 70s-early 80s, will tell they dont do too much of anything but keeping the caps in place. He has a well known channel on here. hes made over 1000 on motor with SBFs dont take my word for it. im going to use steel caps from PRW before i put a main girdle on it. use a 1/4 inch sheet metal in the intake valley and screw it to the ends of the block where the china walls are. that will work way better coming from him

[@billsgarage]

Yup, girdles reduce cap walk but don't add strength - it's for stability and longevity, nothing more. If I was really concerned with the strength of the block, I wouldn't use a factory block at all, I'd go with a World Products Man O'War block. But I'm not running NOS or a blower, so it's not really an issue for me - this is a street motor, not a race motor.

[@KingJT80]

@@billsgarage I think Ben's main issue with that theory that you're stating is that because you're using a girdle, especially ones that are made out of aluminum, is that you're not stopping the cap walk either All you're doing is transferring the cap walk because now you've tied all five main caps together and it's transferring that vibrational damage to all five caps not just isolating it because you'll break one or two without a girdle but you're going to break more of them with the girdle so it really didn't accomplish too much and this is coming from a guy like I said been racing longer than I've been alive and I've been alive over 40 years

[@billsgarage]

Hey, if you guys don't want to run a girdle, then don't - I said that in the video. But, let's be clear - you're not ever going to break a cap due to cap walk, you'll only ever break one due to excessive stress under load or improper assembly. Cap walk just leads to excessive bearing wear, which also will not cause a cap to fail. You guys are talking about strength, and I'm talking about reliability. Cast factory small blocks and main caps fail when people dump nitrous or a bunch of turbo boost into them, or overrev and break a rod, in which case nothing could hold it together - not a girdle, a stiffener in the lifter valley, or anything else. That's probably why most of the comments about a girdle being good for nothing but holding the pieces together when the block splits in half come from the turbo and nitrous crowd. Using the caps that don't walk very much to anchor the ones that do is a highly effective solution to reduce (not eliminate, but reduce) cap walk, and a tool-steel girdle like the one that I use is the most effective type. But, as I said in the video, if you don't want to use one, then don't. I started using one because the SFB that I've been running hard since the early 1990s had a cap walk problem. The girdle fixed it. Inspection of the mating surface between my block and main caps is all the proof that I need to determine whether it works. Of course, the most important thing to remember is that what works for one application may not work for another, and often comparisons that may sound legitimate are as different as apples and oranges. That guy making 1000hp from a small block in the 70s probably filled the water passages up with concrete or lead to strengthen the block (common back then) knowing that he didn't need a cooling system in order to make 1 run at a time. Cap walk isn't a problem for someone like that.

[@KingJT80]

@@billsgarage maybe we're having a misunderstanding This is what he means. He's one of the best there is with these engines and a lot of others too and he's not only talking about race engines he's talking about street engines that make 550+600 at the wheels and making them live. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mGipantra61jiKMsi=xpOgSQsocWyNN9v1

[@Uglykidracing8.2]

I don't see any reason not to run a main cap girdle especially when making big power on 8.2 deck blocks, my reason is because if the block does break the girdle can save the crank from breaking. I've personally never broke a block myself but I have had a few brought to me in 2 pieces and the rotating assembly was fine. As far as cap walk, the caps are not the only thing that is moving, the block is flexing to so it's a combination of the too, I'm just saying in high horse power applications not street motors.

[@billsgarage]

Thanks for your comments, and thanks for watching!

[@bluesky-ud9wg]

They help But, the problem is in the Lifter Valley.

[@billsgarage]

Competition Products used to make valley girdles specifically to address that problem, but they've been listed on their website as out of stock for such a long time that I don't think they actually make them anymore.

[@bluesky-ud9wg]

@@billsgarage I don't think they make them anymore either. Bolting it in won't help much, there will still be a micro amount of movement so...

[@whatchu_talkin_john_willis]

"bearing clearance correct at the torque". no, if you fail to reach adequate fastener preload (IE torque), the cap will not be adequately clamped to the block and will spin a main bearing due to the lack of bearing crush.

[@billsgarage]

You're saying the same thing as me, but with different words.

[@whatchu_talkin_john_willis]

@@billsgarage no, the torque spec is to adequately stretch the fastener to properly clamp the part. if your clearances are wrong with the fastener properly tensioned you need to make a machining change to your housing, not your torque value.

[@billsgarage]

Yup, that's pretty much exactly what I said in the video. Your clearances must be correct when the fastener is properly torqued.

[@petesmith5092]

​@@whatchu_talkin_john_willis Just put a set of torrington needles in it and fuggettaboutit

[@3wbasie]

i don't know seems like it can't hurt so why not

[@billsgarage]

Thanks for watching!

[@michaela.norrissr.6510]

Chevy main girdled the inline 5cyl atlas engine in Colorados... Got to say, the super long Bolts used to torque the Crank mains through the Girdle must be the weak link... When they crash, they really crash with a few Bangs... Terrible engine...

[@billsgarage]

I didn't know they were running a 5-cylinder engine in the Colorado - I thought that was just a weird volvo thing!

[@michaela.norrissr.6510]

@@billsgarage Been using them in Trailblazers & Envoys for a minute 4200/4.2... Colorado has the little brother 3.5 & 3.7 and man they expensive used at $3,500.00 with miles on them... H3's use them aswell...

[@MarksMuscleCarGarage]

I have the Colorado with the 3.5 inline 5 since new with 270k miles on and still ticking. Probably the most reliable engine I've owned.

[@michaela.norrissr.6510]

@@MarksMuscleCarGarage There's a 2012 Colorado 3.7 sitting in my driveway, talking Grenaded!!! Used 3.7 everywhere I look $3,500 with half the miles as yours... Truck doesn't have that value, it's a Heavily abused beater above 200K miles...

[@jesse75]

I would if I put together an expensive engine. But if I put together an expensive engine, it would be an aftermarket block. Wouldn't waist time with a stocker..

[@billsgarage]

If I were going racing, I would definitely have started with an aftermarket block, but I'm pretty happy with this setup. Thanks for your comment.

[@hunterswiski8398]

Anyone use splayed caps with a girdle ?

[@billsgarage]

I could be wrong, but I don't think it's possible to put a splayed cap on these blocks. Anyone have any different info?

[@petesmith5092]

​@@billsgarage Does anyone produce one? Ive never seen a short or tall windsor with them, but that dont mean there arent any

[@brucesumner6993]

You solve the cap walk issue. Now it will crack in the lifter valley. Go buy an aftermarket block and quit wasting your money on a block that was never designed for the power output you want.

[@billsgarage]

That would be massive waste of money and be overkill for a street engine. They only crack in the lifter valley when subjected to boost, nitrous, and/or excessive rpm. Avoid those and the block will last for decades - I've been beating up on 289s since the early 1990s and haven't broken one yet (spoiler alert, this isn't my first engine build). If you built it properly and then operate it within the limits of what you've built, it will hold together fine. There are a ton of people out there not running girdles who are very vocal about telling everyone not to run one, but I've never seen a comment from anyone actually running one that regrets it. Not one. Go ahead and buy yourself a $4000 World Products block if you think that's what you need to get you to the Saturday Night Cruise, but I'll pass.

[@davidhardenbergh8584]

Well all your big liter diesel engines in semi-trucks/tractors and other equipment come factory with a girdle for a reason..

[@billsgarage]

And those things run forever! I used to deliver construction supplies in the DC area with a Peterbilt 379 that had more than 800,000 miles on it. Ran like a top.

[@kurtvara4918]

Stop worrying about what everyone else is gonna say, your paying for it, and it's your baby. I used to have guys telling me BS all the time way back when I was building Mexican Style Boss Motors. If you don't know what that is they call them Clevor motors today, but back then Yates was the only one build Mexican Style Boss's or building intakes for them. People said all kinds of BS, and everyone talked crap and didn't like it till I smoked their azz's with it. And then they didn't like it because it beat them. Funny thing is some liked it enough to steal my 67 Stang and strip the motor out of it. Ya don't listen to that BS It's your's so build it the way you want to and if your gonna listen to someone ask someone who builds them all the time. I ain't him though been out of it to long now and there are so many new things that have been advanced so much since the 70's when I was racing them. For oil have you used the new opened up threaded pipe the filter screws on too??? I know thats what they are doing for the Cleveland. and they sell them at Track Boss for the Cleveland not sure about the 302's. But some of the stuff are the same size. They make stuff for 302's I believe. But anyway the inside Dia. of the hole is larger for the Filters to screw on. I am working on a 351 Cleveland that is really built more like a Boss right now, first one in years though.

[@billsgarage]

Thanks for your comments! I haven't tried the Track Boss oil filter adapter, but can confirm you are correct - the threads are the same, so it will work on any Windsor small block. I knew a guy once that was running a Clevor in an old Cougar. That thing a tons of torque and he regularly stomped my butt! Good luck on your current build, and thanks for watching!

[@user-rr4bg5qr7l]

I disagree with arturozarate1752. 7/16 studs are plenty. Larger studs do not eliminate cap walk.

[@billsgarage]

Interesting, thanks for the comment!

[@jesse75]

Bigger bolts or studs are certainly stronger. But you just lost some metal in the block. Now was it enough to weaken the block ? I'd rather just use a good set of studs and a girdle and tap the freeze plug holes for screw in plugs. And better yet. If I'm going to run the engine hard, periodically take it apart and replace the bearings. That's cheap. Better than waiting for engine damage.

[@andrewbecker3700]

I'll never understand it? Wouldn't it just be easier to start with a stronger block? Unless your in some limited class where you absolutely must run all factory components, why bother? Orange engines work soo much better.

[@billsgarage]

This is a street engine, not a race engine, and I already happen to own it. Why spend a bunch of money buying something else when I can spend just a little bit of money and strengthen what I have? If I was going racing, I wouldn't use a Ford block at all, I'd likely use a Dart Man O' War block.

[@masterhacker1989]

You should use your brain and Build a Ls based engine instead

[@billsgarage]

No thanks, I'll pass on the lobotomy.

[@roberttrevino4184]

Don't waste your money just use your software as a boat anchor all its good for

[@billsgarage]

Don't let me keep you from your LS swap.

[@dustinjamesbecker4636]

Proves fords are junk

[@billsgarage]

Spoken like a Yugo owner with an LS swap.

[@fenderveal7339]

Did you check if there is a pump extension kit for your application? For sbc we use a spacer and longer drive for the dist. All the motors for racing we do has complete girdle systems top and bottom. But as I said its sbc. Not ford. I know very little about Ford parts.

[@billsgarage]

Yes, spacers to go between the block and pump, are available and you could even make one on your own relatively easily, but you're on your own for modifying the pickup. For me, it was easier to grind on the pump and girdle a bit than to modify the pickup, but for others, this may be a more desirable option. You can space it about 1/4" to 3/8" and still use the stock length pump drive. Thanks for watching!

[@richardkranium2584]

I believe the haters are very poor trailer park builders that just plain can't afford one lmfao

[@billsgarage]

🤣😂