Should You Train to Failure? | Educational Video | Biolayne

Link to our podcast Beauty and the Geek: beautyandthegeek.podbean.com/...
Training to failure leads to slightly less strength gain compared to non-failure: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26666...
Similar gains in strength in hypertrophy from training to failure vs. non-failure: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33497...
Training not to failure may improve strength & power out put more than training to failure while hypertrophy is the same between both: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33555...
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[@TheMightyOdin]

I was already a failure, that’s why I trained.

[@DarkoFitCoach]

Haha that cracked me up

[@Marta1Buck]

Same bruh

[@jellis9618]

Excellent

[@kamo7293]

wait... shit he's got a point

[@hunkmad]

🤣🤣🤣 gd one

[@simranbiryani3068]

I have been following my Idol Jason Blahas training and diet and have been seeing great results. I’m doing 3x5 once every two weeks, I take 30mins rest in between sets and sometimes take baths between sets. I also eat bison and rice 7x per day. My hair and teeth are falling out so I know it’s working. Soon I will be orc mode like my coath Hemingway.

[@swiper1131]

Congrats. Keep us all updated on your continued progress.

[@SirAlexanderdeLarge]

Coath is life!

[@KurokamiNajimi]

Natural Hypertrophy has exposed him as a fake coach and doing fake lifts

[@JeffO-]

How is your five year cut going?

[@BonFathead]

i'd recognise that shit eating grin anywhere, its our boy Hemingway!!!!

[@hefferonjoe]

I like how you say, "the research suggests..." rather than making definitive conclusions. better science

[@marcdaniels9079]

This guy is so concise and coherent compared to 99.6% of other KZbinrs. Great content on training and nutrition myth busting 👍👍

[@jeanpaulkassdale]

More like 99.7 in my opinion but I got your point

[@montanaplease]

I’m gonna go ahead and go with Mike Mentzer on this subject and do 1 to 2 sets to failure . After listening to probably eight hours of him and Arthur Jones they explain it so well why you do this especially if you are natural and not on any gear.

[@peetos-chan2835]

I like Dr Israetel's explanation about it. Going through 7 week meso cycles starting with 3 reps in the tank, then going through the weeks until the 6th week went you do failure/1rep, and then deload the 7th week.

[@thecleaningteacher638]

Data > feelings! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 That should be on some merch!!

[@TayLybb]

Trying not to quote Ben Shapiro?

[@DariusBarazandeh]

Great article. Stay 1-3 to failure… seems to be the magic spot.

[@patrickwendling6759]

I am 58yrs old . I train for hypertrophy, I compete in men's physique and I have alway trained complete failure on all body parts with the exception of leg press & squats. We didn't know any better 45 years ago, I think my body as adapted to it (idk). However it works for me & I like it but that's not for everybody No pun intended 🙄.. love your videos and really love your knowledge. Thank you very much 💪🏽

[@theironbee]

"those real G's know what im talking about" LMAO

[@SirAlexanderdeLarge]

Very comprehensive and actionable. Love it! Thanks a lot.

[@grantnewton7129]

Best video on this that I've seen! Watching Mike and Greg go back and forth on this just made my head spin. Thanks!

[@8curious]

needed that info more than I thought I would! Thanks Doc!

[@briand5047]

Great point about the learning component of sometimes going to failure.

[@MiguelRaggi]

Taking squats to failure is dangerous and stupid, which is why I've only done it thrice.

[@montanez707]

Thank you! Will subscribe to your program!

[@billyyousaf2036]

Hi Layne, Awesome video! Really enjoyed the video as it definitely cleared doubts about that issue. Big thank you for making the video. Cheers, Billy

[@douglasnewman8912]

Very good universally useful advice.

[@yasminevrancx9173]

Very informative video!

[@elijahbennett88]

Hahaha! your squats to failure story had me cracking up, I could literally feel my legs burning as you told it - great stuff.

[@camaro69920]

Honestly this is the best video on this topic

[@mikederp9612]

Thanks doc!

[@traviskruger2263]

Thanks Layne

[@shfo875]

Damn, I wish I had listened to this a few days ago. I went too hard on Friday and it ruined my weekend. The pain and soreness are on another level now. Probably gonna miss my Monday lift as a result. Law of diminishing returns applies in the gym. I went over the hump and now paying the price.

[@ezrafriend]

unbelivabley helpful video :) God Bless!

[@fitnesschannel3931]

In terms of should you train to failure, and when it concerns relatively dangerous movements like squats, deadlifts or barbell presses, absolutely, don't do it. But for others, it just depends. For example, volume takes time, and if you can only spare 3 hours a week, which roughly turns out to 2-3 exercises per muscle once a week, going to failure ensures that the minimum amount of stimulus is significant. Now on the other hand when you have enthusiasts, professionals or people with a lot of free time, then they'll probably find it easier to optimize in a detailed manner, including maximizing volume per week.

[@TigerShark316]

Well said. I’m so glad you clarified this for everyone. For the bosu ball sissies, the meat heads, and everyone in between

[@anthonyfender72]

This is one of your best videos ever. I love it !!!!💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪

[@patrickkeeney3261]

Excellent video

[@ealtamushkharal84]

Amazing content man

[@martinadelvai4115]

My "training" to failure has been 2 years ago in a rope/adventure park, about 10 meters above the ground on the obstacle with free swinging logs on 3 meter long strings. You have to move one foot at the time from one log to the next while the other one stays on another log. You use your hands to hold on to the strings of the logs you are standing on. I needed every muscle in my body to not end up in involontarily splits up there. Another time when I have been close to failure I was hiking up to a mountain top. I wouldn't have been able to go much further when we arrived at the top. I cannot imagine wanting to feel this way regularly with training.

[@xGUANdeLUPEx]

Put the podcast on youtube!!

[@Simon-talks]

Layne's "this one time in band camp when I went to true failure on squats".......Dorian Yates "We call that every Tuesday's leg day mate, cheers..."

[@kamo7293]

they have different pharmaceutical inclinations 😉

[@xGUANdeLUPEx]

Ronnie trained to failure constantly, had an amazing physique (arguably the best ever) and is absolutely physically destroyed now. His eventual rival Jay Cutler, has stated he never trained to failure, and now he is amazingly healthy.

[@Hittdogg17]

Actually no Ronnie didn't really train to failure. Not like Dorian did. Ronnie used volume... 2x week. He even said he would do more reps on the 700lbs squat

[@deanpatterson4503]

Ronnie's body is not destroyed because he trained to failure, or didn't, or because he lifted heavy. It's destroyed because he didn't allow injuries to heal properly. He even says as much in his interview with Joe Rogan.

[@sushiter]

@@Hittdogg17 800

[@JoshBenware]

Ronnie was a junkie, that's why his body gave out.

[@Buddy330]

1 minute in, Layne makes fun of people who take everything to failure and I felt attacked 🤣 Informational as always Layne, love it.

[@squatcitygaming1726]

You've also got fibre type conversion from Type IIX to Type IIA when training to failure. You'll build more size, but you'll decrease your power output.

[@Magic_beans_]

Another thing Dr. Israetel has said is that most of us can obviate all of this just by maintaining progressive overload from week to week. If you start with a reasonably challenging rep & set scheme and then each week you add a kilo, a rep, or both, you’re eventually you’re going to reach your limit. Either that or you’ll grow infinitely strong and learn you’re actually the last child of Krypton. Unlikely, but your odds are as good as anybody’s.

[@andrewarseneau6783]

Great video with 100% accuracy

[@grigoryalexandrovitchpecho6934]

Best place to put that one heavy/intense set isn't the end, it's the middle. That way you get the benefit of having the muscle/nervous system primed and ready from the previous sets, but you're not so fatigued from having done like 5-8 sets already. Putting it in the middle makes the rest of the normal (sub failure) sets much easier and smoother subjectively.

[@cjwise5552]

When I trained in Olympic lifting, my trainer made us do one set of burnout squats once every year(after doing heavy squats mind you). I put 225 on my back and did 36 reps of it. The next year I put 275 on my back and did 28 reps. Each time I crawled out of the gym and puked. The benefit I got out of this was not so much physical as it was mental. That feeling of knowing just how hard I can push myself. It made everything I did after that easier.

[@Zeppelin0731]

I remember when I was powerlifting, I felt like I had to avoid getting very excited during the day, because I felt like if I had an adrenaline dump at any point that I wouldn't have it available to me during my top set of squat, bench, deadlift, overhead press, or pull up. If I didn't hit some kind of PR every workout I would feel like a complete failure. Those were the days...

[@jameswoodall9261]

What a fine video. I'm older than dirt but still work very hard. And I like to hit the gym daily. Just enjoy it and things I can enjoy are getting scarcer. Some days I feel kinda froggy and go into an exercise with the idea of going to failure. And most time I make it. But it's mental failure. Still think that most times gets me to that 1 to 2 reps of real failure. Plenty good enough for me. I also have to always think of safety since I work by myself. And I don't do this for a living either. Bust I do see these young guys "playing" and then bragging about how much they've done. I'll listen to you and put them into the shade. wish you had been around 60 years ago.

[@KurokamiNajimi]

It depends on the rep ranges you’re using and your experience level. Once you discard the bodybuilder mindset of size training vs strength training it becomes clear. If you aren’t getting stronger then it means you aren’t gaining muscle and we all know lifting heavy yields more strength. If you’ve been training for 5 years and all you’re doing is 3x10 then leaving reps in the tank isn’t gonna be as effective. Where as if you worked up to a 1 rep max or 3x3 and then went into a 3x10 you aren’t gonna be able to go all out consistently. Just like how you wouldn’t be able to do 10x3 consistently. It’s a balance of volume and intensity and fatigue management which can differ by individual. Leaving reps in the tank is also much better for injury prevention

[@MaciekRabizo]

3:58 gave me goosebumps xD love that type of set :)

[@TeamYouphoric]

0:45 it's about time you give me a damn shout out!!!

[@WhiteLivesMatterPL]

You should get on your knees and hail to the king Biolayne himself!

[@TeamYouphoric]

@@WhiteLivesMatterPL I mean, if I'm going to get on my knees for a man, a proper shout out from Layne would probably justify it.

[@brianpropst4342]

Agree!

[@jelos6397]

I think it worth noting that training to failure should mean training to failure as long as you can keep the good form of the movement

[@ericjg1472]

Failure for spelling Failure as Failuire. :)

[@thomascarlton82]

I train till failure on everything but i never work anywhere close to my 1 rep max. My first set is usually around 11-15 reps and my 4th-5th set is usually around 3-5. I went from 160 to 190 at 15% body fat in 2 years so i think thats ok

[@Zeppelin0731]

Also, my typical way of training when I was powerlifting was probably not optimal. I would ramp up, then go to failure, then get all my volume in after that.

[@Supagremlin126]

I go to failure so I know how much I need to do the next session to gauge improvement

[@Melesniannon]

What I took from that squatting story is that Layne was just a coincidental camera presence away from being part of a gymfail video :P.

[@jameshaskell1073]

So, I’m staying 2-4 reps from failure, but after my last set, I’m adding some Myo reps to add some volume in that challenging, but not failure zone. I like the feeling of it. I haven’t done it long enough to tell if there is a difference compared to not lifting that way.

[@ericjg1472]

I posted above but want to ensure you have the resources: check out Borge Fagerli's site - he is the "founder" of myo reps and not only talks about using them for more "effective" reps but also using them in lieu of additional reps. Example: instead of 3x12, do 1x12 at a ~12RM so you end near failure, then do mini myo reps in clusters for a total of 10 reps in at most 5 reps per mini set. This gets you 15 effective reps the same as doing 3 sets of 12 at ~12RM.

[@TheMattgwapo]

How you describe using going to failure at the end of this video (with blue slide going along with it) sounds like 1 rep max to know where your strength is. Doing the last set to failure doesn't feel like a way to know your max strength. Though it feels like you're really just talking about knowing how it feels to go to failure. I think it is important to point out that you should have a solid trusted spotter helping with that as it is easy to injure yourself without it. You mention how when you went to failure on squats a couple of people had to run over to help you. That is a bad place to be. I was doing a dumbbell press to failure and had a crappy spotter who let my left arm drop and the dumbbell hit my chest hard.

[@TungTran-pp3tx]

The issue with stopping 1-3 set before failure is people don’t know their failure point. Therefore they left too many sets on the table.

[@groovycarter]

Great video and I agree; I’ve been bodybuilding and powerlifting for over 40 years and have tried just about everything in my training but how can Schoenfeld and Israetel conclude that high volume just short of failure produces the best results when using advanced subjects and Mike Mentzer , Dorian Yates, Jordan Peters and other elite bodybuilders have demonstrated that low volume sets taken to absolute failure and beyond will produce phenomenal physiques in the most efficient way possible. I have made gains on both high volume just short of failure and low volume with total failure but there must be only one ( best method ) and I’ve concluded that some advanced lifters feel better mentally training slightly less intense with more sets (myself included) but it shouldn’t be denied that an elite few have been able to truly get the most out of every set and their results cannot be denied.

[@KurokamiNajimi]

It depends on the rep ranges you’re using. Some people with elite recovery genetics and or taking gear can abuse their body more but the vast majority of people aren’t gonna be able to do something like 10x3 every session without generating massive fatigue. At some point you have to do a more complex balance of volume and intensity to make gains. Just doing 3x10 all the time after you’ve been training for 5 years isn’t optimal, someone like that would indeed need to train to failure or 0 reps in the tank since they’re already not generating optimal intensity

[@sjp8024]

I wish I would have seen this before the severe burnout from AMRAP-ing every top set every exercise every workout for 8 months. (squat/deadlift/bench press/overhead press). It was supposed to be a newbie program according to the trainer... The progressive overload was fast but eventually the fatigue was too much and my recovery took a full week between workouts. My squat topped at 360lbs, then I lost all strength over the next month. 25% volume and I still couldn't recover in time to hit the exercise twice a week, so I had to treat it like an injury and physical rehab it.

[@sumsar01]

My training part once systematically failed 3-0-3 tempo squats for 10s at the 9th rep for 4 weeks in a row.

[@Ruudwardt]

Great data presentation as always. With upper body compounds I can go full failure in 1..5 rep sets for 4 sets without dropping reps, only .. next workout I would be a wreck. Not to mention moderate risk of injury. I have attempted to go full failure with deadlift and Jefferson squat and the result has always been some injury. N o t worth it! Probably there is something to do with experience as well, I am a newb barbell lifter, but advanced at calisthenics. Much safer and better feel of my limits on the cali stuff.

[@timgerber5563]

Because of this research I actually switched my workout style. I used to try to take every set to failure. Now, I test out what the max reps are with a fixed interval between sets. Say I get 15, 12, 10, 8, 8 reps on a given exercise and weight. This means that I would do 5 sets of 10 with that weight in the next workout to manage fatigue. Then 5 sets of 11 and so on until I hit failure in the last set. Then I retest the maxes in the workout after this again and can see the increase in total strength I gained in that training block. Actually, I also drop volume lower again once I hit 5x10 on heavy exercises, increase weight and start working up from 5x5 to 5x10 again. Has been working quite well so far.

[@Dimens1oner]

I have always prefered the idea of going to as near failure as possibly without actually going to failure, mostly its to know yourself and your limits, and to be able to end with the rep that you prettymuch know the next one isnt coming. Sometimes you go one over and need to hustle with bars... and then u know that if that happens once here and there, you are doing good job. I think good comparison is when i train with friends i can usually get them to even 20-30% more reps in because they havent thought they can do more too early = noit even trying to go near failure.

[@MrJaxDemon]

Can't really argue with Dorian Yates traning method, it works for some.

[@Hypno_Llama]

The answer is yes and no. Not all lifts and not all the time. Which ones and when? Well that depends

[@glennjones7905]

for me, there's the mental aspect of knocking some very heavy reps out. I think it is an actual endorphin release which is a natural feel good thing. I'm not a runner but that might be like a runner's high? don't get the same rush when stopping early. BUT, when the shoulder joins are saying 'you'd better cool it or else' I do listen.

[@bournelucid]

I do my last set to failure

[@tekila00985]

I used to do going for failure only on the last set of a muscle group, except for legs. Worked for me. Don't believe going for failure on every set because you risk doing more harm than growth plus that's how you end with a bar pressed against your chest if you don't have a spotter to help you.

[@nicolasguillenc]

haha bro that story about your best set was so dramatic 😂😂😂 10/10

[@sokaiya1]

you know you make some points. However, i will point out that i'm sitting here at 44yrs of age and my first personal trainer was Mike Mentzer. I was 15yrs old at the time. And very few people at my age come even close to as a well developed physique as i have. Not to brag... But i'm not in the gym more than 2hrs per week in total and i do train hard. Your analogy of squats to failure is funny and it's like that in the beginning but with time a set to failure even on a compound movement doesn't lay you out like that. Your body does adapt to that stress. I don't go to absolute failure all the time but most of the time i do. And when you do, you stay out of the gym because recovery takes place in the kitchen (food) and in the bedroom (sleep). Truth be told if you train hard enough you can go 10days sometimes more until you hit it again. These incomplete studies aside, everyone needs to really think every time you go to the gym. What are you doing to your body in that training session to make it need to adapt to that stress you put yourself under? Volume will work but where do you draw the line? 5 sets? 10 sets? 20 sets? If more is better then do 100 sets why not? Once you are warmed up a couple sets to failure is all you really need. It may sound counter intuitive but at the same time how many people have the psychological wherewithal to actually get there? Do you see how we start weeding out the men from the boys? Those capable of breaking through that pain barrier will reap the rewards that the rest won't.

[@andrewt248]

Fatigue is one thing, safety is another. Compare the likelihood of serious injury between a squat set to failure with 485 on your back that you can't re-rack and a set of bicep curls to failure on a preacher machine. Stay safe out there, kids.

[@credibility63]

Training to failure is more fatigueing than not training to failure, Mind blown.

[@shantanusapru]

Are you referring to technical failure here, or absolute muscular failure? Also, there's a bit of a difference (for 'failure training') between the end point/goal of max. strength gains vs max. hypertrophy gains...

[@iamwhatiam6281]

failure means failure due the lactate when rests are shorter? due the strenght loss when the rests are longer? due the heart frequency during hiit? what kind of failure for hypertrophy?

[@johnjustice8478]

I failed to train today. Is that the same thing?

[@troywise3130]

failure training taught me how to assess rep ranges and loads better. A lot of people don't know that they actually have 5 or 6 reps in the tank when they think they only have 2 or 3. I think proponents of failure training know that training heavy compounds to failure is just asking for injury. my form is going to get bad before muscle failure on those compound movements

[@burgersomers]

does the standard rule of 2-3 RIR change with rep range? Surely there is a difference when using a 5 rep max weight (so only doing 2 or 3 reps) and using a 20RM weight ( doing 17-18 reps)?

[@LucaSchmitd]

I probably take 60% of my working sets to failure on every workout and I’m fine, recovery is fine and I’m able to train each muscle group twice a week. (I do about 14-24 working sets per muscle group per week)

[@biolayne1]

Either you are 1) very genetically gifted 2) not doing many free weight compound lifts 3) Not very strong 4) not actually going to failure

[@LucaSchmitd]

@@biolayne1 I squat once a week (but that exercise I don’t go to failure, but usually 1 rep from it on every set of it) and I dumbbell bench press twice a week (failure on 2 out of the 3 sets) Yeah, I guess you could say I’m not that strong, not a big guy (very average genetics for muscle and strength 😅). And yes, I am going to total failure and out of those sets to failure, 50% I go past failure with drop sets and other methods! But I don’t train that hard because I think I need to in order to maximize muscle growth, I train like that because I like it 🙂 great video btw!

[@BasedChadman]

@@biolayne1 Is your definition of failure strictly the inability to move the targeted muscle after a set? I think people tend to define it differently and that's cause for the mass confusion, especially when training "beyond failure" is an approach some preach or apply. This guy probably defines it as a break in form or the inability to complete the final rep fully.

[@JeffO-]

@@BasedChadman That distinction would have been good to spell out.

[@unclebob7052]

I once squat 80kg for 4 sets of 25 sucked balls felt it for weeks and personally think it set me back

[@thomaskatt4450]

The latest studies using one legged hack squats on mice on a once a week bro split completely contradict the previous meta -analysis.

[@deerugz2152]

I don’t care what anyone says Mike mentzer hiit training works . And that’s a fact if done properly. And take the rest days recommended or what your body tells you. I’m not going back and forth with anyone if they haven’t it done it for at least 3-6months

[@joachimjustinmorgan4851]

If I train up to 1 heavy set to failure, then I can finish my workouts in 30-45 minutes. Maybe my results are slower, but I was doing Sheiko advanced small/medium; and large load programs for years where my workouts were 2-3 hours, 4 x’s / week and that just wasn’t sustainable for me. I’m still improving, but I train less than 1/2 the time I used to.

[@RaveyDavey]

Yes. If you’re not a pro bodybuilder then most of the time it doesn’t matter if the training isn’t the absolute optimal training. It just needs to be good enough. And if you can get it all done in half an hour then why not? We don’t all want to live down the gym. I currently do all sets in a test pause fashion. So one set per exercise which is like 4 mini sets using the RP method. 3x full body per week. I can be out in 20 mins if I really crack on. Progress is fine.

[@Supagremlin126]

How do you progressive overload if this is the case can you only over load every couple weeks ?

[@LuisGonzalez-gb4uh]

Everything you said sounds quite reasonable, but the question is: Is it really necessary to add volume to get top results? I mean, you can find convenient not training to failure and workout more often with more volume, just because you enjoy hanging around in the gym, you like it, and you prefer to avoid the discomfort of going balls out and feel like dying. But if you had to define the minimum dose of volume and frequency to get good results, what would you say? If your time is not unlimited and you live a busy life, what would you do?

[@steveb6718]

once did 405lbs for 24 reps on the deadlift.... and fell on the floor and lay there for 15 minutes

[@Ubeogesh]

So is this the formula: decide how often you have time\desire to train. Then, train as hard as you can while maintaining that schedule.

[@platinumstorm2521]

@@KurokamiNajimi I take it you're not a fan of Will's approach 😂 it's quite odd considering how much variation and experimentation he has played around with within his training and it seems to have given him a pretty impressive physique! I think I'd actually be content with my body if I looked anything close to how he does.

[@KurokamiNajimi]

@@platinumstorm2521 Deleted my original comment since it’s almost a year old and my knowledge has evolved. Will has a great physique, most ppl aren’t gonna have decent size at 12% body fat like him. Only other natural I follow who does is Bald Omni Man. Will’s training is effective but not optimal. What I’d advise him to do for more muscle #1 Balance volume to intensity better. If you don’t know volume is only the driver of hypertrophy up to a point. A 3x5 provides similar growth to a 3x10 because the last 5 reps provide the most stimulation. If you do a heavy set of 5 then every rep is challenging from jump. He somewhat already did this on the bench recently he finally made a big PR at 190 pounds 325 for 4 vs 180 335 (he only showed 330 but he told Greg his best was 335 which I believe bc the 330 was smooth and a big jump from 315 probably could have did 335 that day if he didn’t rush it). He said using the smith machine helped him push closer to failure without fear. But I’d recommend he include some higher intensity sets in addition to his usual volume #2 Do some new variations/do conjugate. You say has experimented a lot but he really hasn’t. All he does for bench specifically is flat/incline barbell, close grip flat barbell, dumbbell flat and incline, smith machine which is basically the same as barbell bench except worse when a barbell is used to its full capability. Maybe he has done machine pressing I can’t remember. But there’s so many more variations he could be doing that he’s weak at. Floor press, swiss bar, dead bench, larsen press, pin press. And instead of chest flies do some weighted push ups and dips if he’s built for it, especially with rings. The weighted ring push up provides a deep stretch just like the dip. Another big thing is that he never does pause bench, pausing activates the chest much more. Touch and go bench is basically just ego lifting that results in more pec tears and less gains 90% of strength for naturals come from how much muscle they have which is why Will is already relatively strong without strength peaking. If he gets to a 405+ pause bench, 250+ strict press, 300 total weighted pull up for reps, 500 squat to depth, 600 deadlift even if some of that was from strength work he’s gonna be more jacked. More than likely he’ll never do any of what I just suggested and won’t come close to any of these numbers

[@borissman]

Question. If i do for example 3 sets of dumbbell shoulder press, how should i do each set? Option 1: all reps are equal with last being 1-2 away from failure 10 x 10 x 10 Option 2: all reps 1-2 away from failure, but each set has different reps 11 x 10 x 9 The volume for both is the same, but which philosophy is the better? And why? Thank you

[@Magic_beans_]

Just my amateur opinion, but I prefer Option 2 to ensure that all sets are consistently close to failure*. With Option 1 the first two sets are happening in a less fatigued state, so I’d expect the same number of reps to leave me further from failure. Also it allows me to go by feel on each set: when the weight slows down _substantially_ , that usually means I’m 3-4 reps in reserve, so I grind out two more after that §. * caveat: for newbies the difference between training 2 from failure and something like 6 from failure seems to be minimal. For simplicity they probably could do 10-10-10 and progress just as well. § I should point out though that I don’t have a firm rep target. I stop when I have 2 reps left, not when I’ve completed 10 reps. If I’m feeling good and I can get 12 or 13 before reaching that “2 reps in reserve” feeling, that’s what I’ll do.

[@realamericannegro977]

I used to think training to failure was dumb until I figured out more practical ways to do it. All that leaving the gym tired stuff is bogus. It's great when some in moderation or if you stop as soon as it starts burning. Seems to be more about the burn in general rather than complete fatigue

[@mau_ptrainer]

Can be said that i am reaching those 2 to 4 reps from when I'm already failing in the technique? For example in the bench press when one of my arms is failing or in squat when I'm barely going down

[@MrTrdsmi]

failing the technique is failure.. DO NOT lift with bad form,u're asking for trouble

[@SaamanthaTM]

“You’re sniffing Ammonia” 🤣🤣

[@dontreadmyname4396]

so german volume training makes sense i guess? the first sets aren't to failure but due to the low rest periods the more sets you do the closer you get to failure until u actually reach failure

[@ericjg1472]

studies show lower volume with more intensity is more effective at hypertrophy.

[@CequalsRN]

Cool

[@dontreadmyname4396]

what about myo reps? can we do them allways in all our workouts so they get shorter? Tom Platz was the man when it comes to legs and he was fan of myo reps and partials after full ROM failure

[@BasedChadman]

Stimulates even more growth considering it's more stress on the muscle. I don't know a single bodybuilder who trains like a pussy tbh.

[@BasedChadman]

There is a lot of sense in avoiding failure if there's a risk of injury (heavy compounds that can't be safely dropped or racked), but anything that can safely be taken to failure should be. Maybe not complete muscular failure, but at least to form failure. You won't create enough tissue damage trying to calculate your RIR for a damn tricep pushdown or pull ups.

[@ericjg1472]

check out Borge Fagerli's site - he is the "founder" of myo reps and not only talks about using them for more "effective" reps but also using them in lieu of additional reps. Example: instead of 3x12, do 1x12 at a ~12RM so you end near failure, then do mini myo reps in clusters for a total of 10 reps in at most 5 reps per mini set. This gets you 15 effective reps the same as doing 3 sets of 12 at ~12RM.

[@DonnieDarko727]

He was the man with androgenics too

[@Andrew-sn8zu]

Could the fatigue from training to failure lead to increased hunger? i.e. making it difficult to sustain while in a deficit?

[@ahmedojabrah1010]

of course it could .. training to failure requires a lots of energy from the body

[@lovelife1867]

I used to train , going to the absolute end and it brought me only injuries that I could not fix up to this day.. At the age of 42, I have gotten accustomed to Joseph Sinagoga style of training and I run 10 km 5 times a week. Feeling great and relaxed. Sleeping well and just going anti inflammatory any way I can. Gym bro coaches hate me cause I don't need them. Some of my friends who are in the business always say "we could do so much more if you just came to the gym". AND BOUGHT the program ? Nah. I'm good. I am saving so much by not listening to "those" ppl anymore.

[@BuffNerdInCa]

Hotly debated topic in bodybuilding. I have a lot of friends who agree with don't train to failure. Come show prep time though...they all train to failure each set. In my personal experience to failure gives me better gains without comparison. Over time you really get used to it. There is no screaming or carrying on...you simply hit a point where no amount of effort will move the weight...and you put it down. No ammonia or screaming work out partner needed. But that takes years. But yes... Recovery between sets will take longer. Not 15 minutes. Maybe 2 or 3 for very large muscles. Try leg press to failure with your hands on your knees to even be able to get the weight back to a locking position. Then jump off and start doing body weight squats. The crazy blood rush after is downright painful. Just never give up good form in pursuit of failure....that is where injuries happen.

[@panilssonmsc9636]

If you are on a heavy cycle, you can do Dorian HIT style but you do every muscle once every 9 days, you Will grow like weed💪💪 But the injuriy. risk is incredible so i would still chose the other metod knowing What i know now.... 2 disc fucked, pec/triceps/hamstring/trapieziuz injuries after just 4 years on that HIT style....

[@lutherlessor4029]

Would another particular application of training to failure be to maximize benefit for someone who is only fitting in about 2 or 3 short sessions per week without increasing the time-commitment?

[@OffDutyDad]

If you can only train three times a week then do full body. Don’t do twice a week, that’s enough time to build basically anything. But if you can only go twice, do full body.

[@bigmouse666]

Well i believe that the proper conclusion should be: we do not know yet. With current research in my mind, I believe Layne’s conclusions are sound. But there is almost no proper research done on the topic of training to failure, since training to failure is not even well defined in the scientific literature. You have research where participants train to volitional failure or they train to technical failure or true momentary muscular failure. Just based on those three different definitions of failure you get different results. If we want to know the real physiological effect of training to failure, then only training to true momentary muscular failure should count. Otherwise we are making conclusions and asumptions about training to failure when the muscle was not actually fatigued to true failure. Most of the time researchers are answering a scientific question that they did not even investigate in a study. That is jot how the science should work. The problem with all the meta analysis on the topic is, they combine all different definitions of failure and compound the results of all the studies. So by default those conclusion are false. And even researchers like Schoenfeld himself sometimes do not estimate true failure well. I remember seeing a footage of his set of lat pulldowns on youtube, when on the last rep the velocity did not change one bit, that by definition can not be true failure, but after the set he states that was failure. So when even the researcher defines failure couple of reps shy of true failure, then it is safe to asume that all the participants in his studies will perform sets by his standards of failure. And because we do not have any proper research done on the topic of failure, we can not make logical conclusions about the effect of different volumes when training to or not to failure. We just do not know yet how training to failure impacts hypertrophy, maybe there is only one set of each exercise needed if you train to true failure or maybe ten. We can not say right now.

[@Reppintimefitness]

Bro 🔥💯🔥

[@GRPABT1]

Exercise to failure every time is how we get Crossfit fail compilation videos.

[@nicholasmartinez6043]

“Stimulus to fatigue” Dr. Mike has entered the chat