Should You Worry About High LDL Cholesterol?

[@tomgoff7887]

Your remarks about these cholesterol sceptics are very kind. I wonder how many people have had their lives cut short or had their health ruined as a result of believing these influencers.

[@blackpalacemusic]

Please don't stand in the way of natural selection. If people want to choose a comment section anecdote, over 4 decades of research, it is their right. 😏

[@seitanbeatsyourmeat666]

My mother was a keto believer, did it off and on for years. She ended up with a quintuple bypass and post surgery strokes. She STILL BELIEVES IN KETO. She literally has diabetes, limited post-stroke speech, a pacemaker and has a hand full of prescription medication to take daily. But KeTo!

[@AimlessSight]

@@blackpalacemusic depends on who it is and the relationship. You can save randos but you might be able to save your loved ones

[@waynetrenton2310]

How many days do you live with statin drugs? Did you research life expectancy?

[@waynetrenton2310]

@@blackpalacemusic you will live only a few more days on statin drugs.

[@VeganLinked]

The only thing I hate about your content is it has me repeatedly say the same thing over and over again. Man your stuff is Great! So top shelf! I just can't thank you enough for being exactly who you are 💚

[@Viva-Longevity]

Yeah, but your recent episode with Miyoko Schinner was awesome! kzbin.info/www/bejne/op6Ti3Rpic-LhM0si=GpyJo8ida9muZ9AS

[@VeganLinked]

@@Viva-Longevity 💚💚💚💚💚

[@milicaskenderovic1306]

I agree! :D I also hate that I am so hooked now and have to watch the video as soon as it comes out and then repeat hahaha

[@spencerprice1676]

I just heard my brother with very high LDL saying that since his HDL is also high, that he's good. Thanks for covering this relevant topic

[@spencerprice1676]

Also, thanks for distinguishing between appealing to authority and appealing to evidence

[@Joseph1NJ]

That's just pseudoscience. The only people who advocate for that are the keto folks, and sadly there's no shortage of them these days. While they're mostly just YT influencers and entrepreneurs, some are highly educated, such as PHDs and even MDs. If he's middle aged or older you might try to talk him into having a CAC test. Its non invasive and takes about 5 minutes. Although that's not proof positive of no risk if its zero, if it is anything above zero that does indicate past damage and cardiologists consider risk elevated.

[@jedgreco]

I think your brother is the only one here who understands how cholesterol actually works.

[@charleslindsey6789]

What qualifications do you have that give you expertise in this area? @jedgrreco

[@Viva-Longevity]

@jedgreco Didn't watch the episode?

[@joeh1687]

Another entry for the "people love to hear good news about their bad habits" file : )

[@veganfortheanimals6994]

always

[@LWilkes]

I hate when people say that. A keto diet isn't all that pleasant for lots of people. Try to imagine life without bread, pasta, mashed potatoes, etc...all the traditional comfort foods.

[@Typhoonbladefist]

Thanks for addressing the obvious survivor bias of the high LDL 60+ year old people. I’m tired of people making money on KZbin through sensationalism and ignorance. Thanks for not following that trend.

[@John-xk2ud]

Thanks for bringing some sanity to the internet. Followed you to your interview on Simon Hill and then viewed Dr Tom Dayspringer aka Dr Lipid, now there is someone that knows what they are talking about on Cholesterol. He answered all my questions and dispelled many myths. Thank!

[@20xx-mm-dd]

What a treasure of a channel! I'm someone who needs to be convinced by science. I also have learned a great deal about gut health recently, and seeing your science based, open and accountable approach to every health related question is SO refreshing. I'm still an omnivore but learning to go vegan. I see the writing on the wall of my mind- the science has spoken and its up to me to either accept it or pretend it doesn't exist. Thank you! Genuinely, this is such a wonderful resource!

[@4124V4TA-SNPCA-x]

You summed up very well as usual, Chris. Funny how LDL deniers trust statisticians and correlations only when the study in question supports their pre-established views. And they always pull out a doctor and one or two studies to ring the bell. And meta studies that assay a carefully selected body of previous researches.

[@waynetrenton2310]

You can google Jupiter study, results show only a few days added to your life on statin drugs.

[@SALVATl0N]

The only thing I would have added was a note about actuaries and insurance companies and how they're pulling out of areas of the country with climate change most prevalent. Surely if you believe in actuaries then you must be greatly concerned about climate change.

[@DeviatingVapors]

what is the profit margins on actuarial, mayo clinic .. and what does that say about their wellness skills exactly. they are counting beans. but. don’t know the harms of lentils. and couldn’t care about lectins, oxalates .. or the harms of a diet devoid of fat soluble vitamins. so. why ask them for advice on a bio marker that is only a knee point at best … when they have buried their heads in the sand to the harmful affects of the sugar beet research from 1575. 1878 showed some benefits to glycerin to administer nutraceuticals. Jan 1879 Mr. Benz patented the gasoline automobile. and. belched forth junk into the atmospheric bubble. 1850 showed us the harms of mixing waste milk with sugar. milk fat lower than cream caused high health deficiencies. so. was waste. skim and zero are illegal in parts of Europe. due to that legacy. in the US .. oh. that just means more profits. more. health flaws. more. pharmacy into the sewers. so. grains. sugar. flours have been eroding the DNA of your great grandparents, for so long … we think a set of numbers on a page will save us from the toxic seed oils in a burger. if you take a statin. is an interesting leap of logic. AMD is caused by seed oils and grains eroding your metabolism. see Dr. Chris Knobbe lectures on that. Iftikar Kullo .. needs a new diet. and. to upgrade his spectacles from plastic to optical glass. then. maybe he can interpret the numbers for the Mayo clinicians properly. don’t go and reduce a natural process number based on beans, when the planet still doesn’t have a clue what it even is.

[@Parker_Miller_M.S.]

The evidence for cholesterol, more specifically Apo-B lipoprotein particles which contain cholesterol, causing ASCVD is so enormous and so consistent it truly is just denialism at this point. Very fortunate with a plant heavy diet and active lifestyle my non HDL cholesterol is just around 65mg/dL. Edit: it's funny how people who are cholesterol denialists will often say Keys cherry picked his data (David Diamond), then will turn around and either cherry pick data to support their position, or completely misrepresent the data so it looks like LDL is not causing heart disease. As always, great content Chris!

[@PClanner]

Then there is 1 solitary fact that puts this into the heresay and conjecture department. ALL instantances of heart attacks were caused by blood clots. Square that circle pls

[@LucasDeschamps-ch1jh]

Framingham study data is public but what/how it gets published is misleading. Tens of dozens of researchers have gone thru the data and found a recurring theme: LDL did not predict CV events. Moreover, recent data from Miami heart study and Dave Feldman's further reinforces this finding (categorically).

[@Parker_Miller_M.S.]

@@LucasDeschamps-ch1jh while the Framingham data is quite vast and has been hugely instrumental in advancing medical science, we have other data from mendelian randomization (genetic studies) and RCTs which directly investigate the questions of LDL lowering (either through genetic or drug intervention) and risk for ASCVD related events and mortality. These data unequivocally show that lower LDL/Apo-B containing particles levels for longer in life (starting early life is best) leads to an absolute lower risk for events and death occuring. Feldmans research is more so investigating the lipid energy model in "lean mass hyper responders". I do not think at this time any of Feldman's current work or that of others looking into LDL concentrations in these phenotypes disproves the fact that higher LDL increases risk for ASCVD events and death.

[@Nicksonian]

“Plant influencers” appeal to authority. “Animal influencers” disrespect authority…except when they can craft bits and pieces of data to conform to their narrative. Plant people generally use scientific research as their authority while animal people tend to have a circular influencer authority, based on each other’s opinions. I’m not a vegan or even vegetarian but after years of searching, I’ve found Chris here, and Drs. Carvalho and Greger, to be the most credible sources on KZbin. I have yet to find a fully credible source on the other side. And the more I learn, the more laughably biased I find many of those other influencers.

[@chewiewins]

They are best 3 though I do find Dr Gregor bit too extreme eg comparing cigarettes to eggs as same risk or dismissing oily fish as healthy

[@seitanbeatsyourmeat666]

Check out The Proof too. Simon Hill is great, I love his podcast

[@waynetrenton2310]

There is a lot of studies, statins are a very small benefit,extend your life about four days, depends on the study.

[@OisteinThomassenMScPharm]

Paul Saladino: «I think…». Why don’t these high cholesterol believers admit that what they’re suggesting is just a hypothesis. Many people take their word as the truth. Quite a dangerous one as it opposes the established evidence.

[@CharlieFader]

@@waynetrenton2310 in order to show meaningful differences the study must be adequately powered for said endpoint. It's also generally true that people go on statins when a lot of the damage is already done.

[@Drstephenstokes]

MIC DROP!!!! After many years, working in clinical practice and being part of the cholesterol does not matter bandwagon, I started getting worried about my own cholesterol when as a result of a high protein higher fat diet it got dangerously high. Back in November I switch to a vegan diet primarily because of this channel and I saw my cholesterol drop from 300 to below 150. My LDL is now at 75. Honestly, I was amazed that a change in diet. Basically eliminating animal sources would drop my cholesterol so much. This morning I watched the video in question and was thinking about giving a response since I had just published my own video on the importance of cholesterol. it is always good to see other like-minded people speaking up against this nonsense.

[@Viva-Longevity]

Watching your video now and loving it! 👏 You sound like a great doctor.

[@Drstephenstokes]

@@Viva-Longevity Your channel and your personal story are the reason I changed my diet to a vegan approach and became a follower of Dr. Greger. Started in November 2023, not easy but seeing very positive results. Thank You.

[@LucasDeschamps-ch1jh]

See Miami heart study and Feldman's work

[@Crowmother13]

Please tell me what you are eating? I need to get my cholesterol low ! ASAP . 😢

[@elsmooth12]

Wonderfully done video, Chris! I always enjoy your videos, and respect the fact that as a scientist you can intelligently distinguish between studies of quality, and those with a slant towards researchers getting the outcomes they desire (to satisfy whatever motivation). I can't remember who it was, but I remember reading something from a scientist that went something like, "a good scientist is one who fights like hell to prove their own theories false." I'm paraphrasing, but the spirit of the quote was one of anti-hubris...a trait we seem as a culture to be in short supply of lately In late August of 2023 I dropped the remainder of my animal product intake (last thing to go were the eggs from my hens). Looking at my last 4 readings as an omnivore and my first 4 readings as a full herbivore, my average total cholesterol went from 192 to 162. These are all from blood donation readings...soon I'll be getting my full workup so I'm excited to see the breakout. I'm a 44 year old male, 5'7, 119 lbs (been over 200 twice in my life...yikes), avg bp of 114/64, avg resting heart rate of 56, and active on my property from sun up to sun down, with some time set aside for the gym. From this point on, I'm gonna roll the dice in favor of full time plant consumption (for many reasons which include my health...plus I'm growing a load of fruit and veg, so it's a solid closed-loop system). Now I'm just a personal case study (low form of evidence), and of course have my own bias now based upon my experience, but eating WFBP and being fibered up like crazy seems to have helped me to level up my wellness, and I would encourage those who are plant-curious to take an informed step forward if they're looking to level up their health and wellness, too. Thanks again for all the work that you do in bringing high quality content to this platform! Wishing you and your loved ones all the best.

[@Bbarfo]

I quit statins two years ago. I eat low carb/low sugar foods with intermittent fasting every day. Not seed oils or processed foods, including processed plant-based products. Plenty of eggs and beef in my diet. A moderate number of vegetables and a little fish. I'm 64 and weigh the same as at age 20. Total Cholesterol 304, HDL 95, LDL 189 and Trig 85. CRP is 0.02, Glucose is 85 A1C 4.9. CAC score at age 62 was 32. No worries. The saying goes, "is cholesterol the arsonist or the fireman?" Cut the sugar, lose weight stay off plant based processed soy garbage and you'll be fine.

[@k.h.6991]

That's a pretty high LDL cholesterol level.

[@Tpb247]

Why are you here 😂

[@Meanbeanmachine1988]

Hope you are still doing well. I am curious what a whole foods plant based diet will do to your biomarkers(maybe improve them?)

[@a.parman9062]

Only 2 years w/ high ldl right ? Keep it that way and inform us 2 or 3 years from now, good luck

[@KAT-dg6el]

Same except I only eat low-carb vegetables and no fruit. (dr. Bernstein) I have type one diabetes from a virus and I have some insulin resistance. My LDL bounces between 170 and 280 for the last 4 years. My last test showed LDL 224, triglycerides 68, HDL 98. My A1c is usually in the pre-diabetic range and has been for 20 years. A doctor did the fear factor so I took statins for 15 days. The side effects were so bad I had to quit. It too FOUR months for all the side effects to finally leave my body! Thank God I convinced her to give me a pill and not one of those shots that stay in your body for 30 days! All the other tests come out good. And I have Epstein-Barr virus. 🤷‍♀️

[@davidhogg1216]

Mike, so focussed on his berber snake potion reads what he wants to read as long as it bolsters his product sales.

[@veganfortheanimals6994]

this

[@tamcon72]

I really hope this is an exaggeration of what's in his product?

[@davidhogg1216]

@@tamcon72 research it and find out !

[@Patricia-lz2zo]

Thank you for this. My cardiologist freaked when my "good" cholesterol was too high. He said, it works against you when too high. Signal of something being amiss.

[@mariacallas9962]

As much as i admire and love your work,it is as the same time truly depressing how much it’s needed.

[@Viva-Longevity]

There are times...like right now...when I wonder if the work people like Simon Hill and I do is anything more than a drop in the bucket. The vastly more popular message is beef, butter and high LDL are good for you. I rationalize by saying, well at least we're preventing tragedy in a relatively small number of lives and that would be worth it if it was just one.

[@mariacallas9962]

@@Viva-Longevity please know that your work help navigate less knowledgeable people like me who wanna stay out of the “dark”. Whatever level you are as a sailor,you still need a lighthouse! Merci et bonne continuation!

[@benitaenzor7213]

@@Viva-LongevityYou definitely have made a difference! My husband’s APOB dropped 70 points on a plant based diet! Thank you for keeping it real!❤️

[@alohafueled]

@@Viva-Longevity I for one am beyond grateful for you, Simon Hill and others like you guys. Thank you for the work you do and the information you so generously share. Because of you guys, I have learned tons and have a growing credible resource library, that is so valuable to me. Please keep these vids coming 💚🙏

[@milicaskenderovic1306]

We had to stop whatever we were doing & watch the video 😂 it feels like a breath of fresh air! I admire the patience you have to deal with all the rubbish on the internet. Thank you 😊

[@benbeelerfitness2595]

My LDL is 70 but my HDL is 25 and my life insurance refuses to drop my rate from when my LDL was 103. It’s really sad that they haven’t updated their policies.

[@chuckv8838]

Thanks again for the help you’re trying to provide

[@liamtaylor4955]

Thank you for mentioning the difference between appeal to authority and appeal to expertise.

[@susanniemann8525]

I just recently discovered your fabulous channel and look forward to viewing all of your videos and look forward to new ones!!! Thanks for the science!

[@ryguyryguyryguy]

Love your videos! Never feel like browbeaten to do or buy something and always feel like I become more knowledgeable about what's generally good for me

[@gordonv.cormack3216]

Non-HDL cholesterol (TC - HDLC) is a pretty good predictor of atheroscerotic risk, comparable to ApoB. TC/HDLC (total-to-high-density ratio) correlates pretty well with non-HDL cholesterol, but is an inferior measure. That's why the charts use it only as a secondary consideration: If your TC is high, look at TC/HDLC to figure out (indirectly) how much of it is LCLC. Of course, it is better just to calculate Non-HDLC directly, or, better still, get an ApoB test. But if you do both, you can get a conundrum. My ApoB is pretty good at 78, and my LDLC is not so great at 110. Some research suggests that high LDLC/ApoB is protective (moreso than just low ApoB). But this is when LDLC is "normal." I don't think anybody thinks that running up your LDLC is a good idea. But whether cutting LDLC when ApoB is good is (e.g. with statins) is warranted is less clear.

[@veganfortheanimals6994]

good info...yes, non-HDL is a very good measure (that is not often discussed), especially if you can't get your apo B tested, as is the case with many people....I had to pull teeth to get my apo B tested

[@k.h.6991]

It's really tough to get a good apob score, when your LDL is high. But I guess you come close. As long as you eat well (plant predominant, enough leafy greens), you're probably ok.

[@greensmoothieparty]

In the LMHR study, the LMHR cohort did no worse than the general population who are at high risk of dying of heart disease. Faint praise indeed!

[@rod7944]

To be more specific, there was no correlation found in that study between plaque increase and any lipid at any level. Measurements done by CT angiogram

[@veganfortheanimals6994]

Great video, Chris!....please do more videos like this, if you can

[@broccoli-dev]

I sent you an email about Mike's video literally as I was watching it. I'm not surprised others did as well. I couldn't believe he would tell such a boldface lie about the insurance company not caring about total cholesterol. I much prefer looking at large individual studies than meta-analyses. Meta-analyses suffer from garbage-in-garbage-out syndrome. At least with individual studies it's easy to see the strengths and weaknesses. For a meta-analysis you have to understand every study included in addition to the methodology of the meta-analysis. I'm not saying they are useless but they are almost perfect tools for obfuscation.

[@bgrune1]

I was troubled to find out that my ldl was still high despite my being vegan for 14 years. I fixed it myself by switching to oatmeal every day and a fiber blend I created that I drink every day. Mostly psyllium and flax.

[@SIDotaku]

To be fair to Dr. Paul Mason, he DOES conclude that LDL is STILL a risk factor in the talk clipped here. So to just clip ONE part where he just shares an interesting study on LDL is a bit misrepresentative of his position on the subject.

[@Xplinter91]

Thank you for stopping your schedule to upload this! BTW, what's the full list of reasons that you went vegan? I know you've mentioned them plenty but I can't find the whole list (it's quite long and detailed as far as I remember).

[@michelle_cen]

That silver award in the background!!! Someone’s got hardware!

[@anabolicamaranth7140]

Actuaries are statistical wizards, well maybe not. Back in the early 2000’s we went to painstaking effort to build into our models the future improvements in mortality that were certain to play out. The problem is these improvements are not panning out and this was true before Covid hit.

[@sophiekarnak3936]

Excellent video, as always. Thanks for all you do, Chris!

[@jwalaprasadyoga]

Another great analysis trying to solve ever confusing Cholesterol issues,

[@helenhucker346]

Thank you for an excellent video. There are many people on KZbin promoting a carnivore diet which seems odd as Homo Sapiens are obviously not carnivores. I think we should aim for unblocked arteries and eat accordingly.

[@nickf2170]

I guess you never saw cave art. It is all abount hunting animals, not eating plants.

[@k.h.6991]

That just means eating berries wasn't cool. Doesn't mean they weren't eating them. ​@@nickf2170

[@calvinlawn3457]

I’m happy to hear you have a video in the works on the Framingham Heart Study; I looked to see if had one the other day. Could you talk omega-3 (and omega 3 index) as well then?

[@11235Aodh]

You are the only one that needs more views, not fools like mr. Diamond.

[@YaYippieYeah]

My mom has an LDL of 175 and her family doctor says it's totally fine. My grandma died of heart desease and had really terrible "last years". I hate this doctor without even knowing him, and my mom doesn't listen to any dietary advice from my side. Vegan's are seen as extremist in our society and their opinions are often just dismissed as extremist positions :(

[@revivecleaning399]

Appeal to authority is only a fallacy if the authority is not an expert.

[@LucasDeschamps-ch1jh]

did you just make that uo?

[@x4rdas]

Brilliant as always thank you for these fantastic videos. I wonder if we'll see something about the bird/mooflu here soon? 😉 Love from Tübingen, Germany. Stay safe ❤

[@Mareike-aka-Mary-1337]

Das hab ich mich auch schon gefragt 😉

[@bill2292]

Thanks for an insightful episode Chris! I learned the meaning of "Mendelian Randomization and Public Health"

[@AndrewPawley11]

Outstanding, as usual.

[@kenmarriott5772]

The saturated fat and the cholesterol hypothesis keep changing. Chronic stress, being overweight, having high fasting insulin and being sedentary are the true factors.

[@Viva-Longevity]

Data?

[@floobertuber]

And lest we not forget, high blood pressure and smoking.

[@QuantumOverlord]

I think everyone that's serious agrees that you want LDL to be low but what I'm interested to know is is there any real benefit from it being lower than about 75 mg/dL and could there be some downsides? We know LDLs stick to the endotheliel layer but below about 75 mg/dL plaque build up is unlikely as at these low serum concentrations LDL since outward flux may actually be greater at these levels. As someone who sits around that 75 mg/dL level, I have to wonder if I have actually reached the optimal level, not much research on the ideal LDL level since most people are far outside of this range.

[@Mrm1985100]

This study by Leticia Fernandez-Friera seems to suggest LDL should be below 60, but it's based on very few people and isn't randomised: "Normal LDL-Cholesterol Levels Are Associated With Subclinical Atherosclerosis in the Absence of Risk Factors". I think they've done RCT on statins showing certain populations should have LDL below 70, or even below 50 after a heart attack.

[@Viva-Longevity]

@QuantumOverlord It's a very good question about what the optimal level is. I've heard Walter Willett say he doesn't think it's a good idea to drive it down to very low levels just because you can; it's there for a reason.

[@QuantumOverlord]

@@Viva-Longevity It makes sense for older people who already have significant plaque that you want to aim for as low as possible since once you go below 75 there is evidence you can actually speed up shrinking rates. However if you are young or have always had low LDL one could argue that the benefits flatline below 75 or if its the case that LDL actually has other benefits that are hidden by this glaring flaw then we could even end up with a U shaped curve.

[@woofinu]

At 5:28 I think the title should read "causal factor," not "casual factor."

[@sebstott3573]

I wonder how many excess deaths are caused by the cholesterol confusion online. I also wonder how many of those influencers know what they're saying is probably wrong and how many are genuinely confused.

[@olivertrumanjr9556]

It’s definitely crossed my mind. All of those conspiracy theorists who claim to be noticing more healthy people dropping dead for no reason. It’s probably nothing, but I definitely wonder if keto and carnivore going mainstream is starting to catch up to a few people

[@LucasDeschamps-ch1jh]

I wonder how many have been caused by changing to a vegan diet

[@tspicks4360]

I have to say, I get annoyed with sites like High Intensity Health, who too often misrepresent the data to match an agenda, And they tend to accuse plant based advocates of this ... talk about projection ^_^ . I've long been aware that ldl is a key factor (and hdl not so much) since reversing my own cvd a decade ago after a heart attack, following an Ornish/ Esselstyn diet. And the concurrent science, of course.

[@Marina-ct6tv]

Most blood parameters fall in the U curve and when they are outside the middle of the curve, there is most likely something wrong - I 100% agree with understanding WHY cholesterol is high. Recently I found myself with very high cholesterol and a heart problem. Turns out that I had low vitamin D and B12 deficiency - these where the cause of my dyslipidemia. This is very different from a young and very healthy person who eats a lot of saturated fat and have low short-term risk of having a stroke. Still, that does not mean that usually high cholesterol is something not to make you stop and re-evaluate

[@coboarasus]

This tactic of creating doubt among people never stops to amaze me. They always pull out of the bag a study or a doctor / scientist who is a “whistle blower”, ready to call out the conspiracy 🥲

[@garyloewenthal]

“Doctors don’t want you know this!”

[@veganfortheanimals6994]

non-HDL level is a good measure, especially if you haven't had your apo B tested

[@cal6610]

Awesome video - thank you!!! Great links, I checked the 2023 life insurance guide and LDL < than 100 gives the best rates. "They" gave out a little too much information - like using outdated insurance information - and you NAILED them! This is very convincing!!! On a side note... they require a normal prostrate exam. I wonder if prostrate health is related to diet as well. Is there another episode on that issue??? By the way, my doctor no longer uses prostrate exams, but relies on some kind of blood test.

[@Viva-Longevity]

Thanks! Same with my doc. Yes, prostate health is very much related to diet. I need to to an episode about that.

[@alan2102X]

1:40: "HDL only needs to be 20 in order for...". No, HDL would have to be much higher than that. They are talking CHOLESTEROL/HDL ratio, referring to total cholesterol, not LDL. For average person with total cholesterol at say 200, HDL would have to be ~40.

[@Viva-Longevity]

Thanks for the correction. It was a careless error on my part, but your estimate sounds off too. This is for the premium plan that requires LDL

[@alan2102X]

@@Viva-Longevity Thanks for your honesty. I just said that for someone (like say average American) with total cholesterol of ~200, then their HDL would have to be 40 for it to clear the insurance company's bar of 5X. 5 x 40 = 200. My own total cholesterol is usually about 170, with LDL 90-100 and HDL around 50-60. I would easily clear the insurance company bar (HDL 5X), though the LDL is still a tad high.

[@alexm7310]

Love your videos. Breath of fresh air! 😊❤

[@ThingsYoudontwanttohear]

A few papers ago: "Correlation is not causation and statisticians do not know what they are talking about" Now that the "science" supports their narative: "The correlations prove everything and statisticians are geniuses!"

[@blackpalacemusic]

Correlation is still not causation, but there is still a link.

[@mariushager9983]

Its the same with the vegan industry paying for every study and buying out governments to push their narrative but the meat and dairy industry (many time bigger) does nothing

[@alan2102X]

@@blackpalacemusic Correlation is not causation but where there's smoke (correlation) there is OFTEN fire, therefore worth investigating, usually.

[@Viva-Longevity]

@blackpalacemusic Correlation didn't turn out to be causation for HDL, but it did for LDL and triglycerides, no?

[@Mike-du1dc]

Thank you yet again for a FACT based response! 😉

[@tamcon72]

Mike Mutzel is a menace. You are very kind, but this guy is a walking personification of the Dunning-Kruger Effect. I am actually giving him the credit of assuming he's not thorough or rigorous--as with his assessment of this insurance actuarial data--rather than deliberately deceitful or malicious. To his credulous viewers, though, the effect can be the same because his information is delivered in such a self-assured manner.

[@xperience-evolution]

He knows that he lies. 100% He deliberately picked this insurance policy.

[@tamcon72]

@@xperience-evolution I honestly don't think he's devious enough to do this, but you may be right.

[@xperience-evolution]

@@tamcon72 He can choose between devious and stupid. Most people who make a lot of money know what they are doing. In the end it doesn't matter why he is doing it. The results in people getting sick and even dying are the same.

[@pamelacooley6457]

Thank you for this topic ❤ so helpful. The internet and social media influencers 🙄we need to research things for ourselves. It is a lot of work and then I still question am I eating ok 🙈

[@robz.3225]

Another winner, Chris!

[@veganfortheanimals6994]

Chris, did you make an error at 1:38 when you said "HDL needs to only be 20..." ? It seemed to me like you were dividing LDL by HDL (100 divided by 20), instead of dividing TC by HDL....no? I think they are referring to the TC to HDL ratio

[@Justinegallows]

The chart says ldl / hdl

[@veganfortheanimals6994]

@@Justinegallows time stamp on that chart?

[@Justinegallows]

@@veganfortheanimals6994 1:45 It says cholesterol/hdl ratio

[@Viva-Longevity]

Yes, that was a very careless error on my part and I'm really sorry. That's one of the reasons I don't do quick takes, because I like for people to fact check my episodes.

[@sco0tpa]

I get all of my health, fitness and nutrition advice from insurance underwriters. If they're not around I just ask my insurance agent. To heck with scientists. They don't know statistics or other experty stuff the "expert statisticians" do.

[@Blittsplitt5]

I have 140 LDL. Total cholesterol 207. I've been having palpitations and chest pain for the last month and a half. Been in the ER 3 times and PCP. I still don't have a conclusive diagnosis. I still it's silly to only look at one statistic and say "this figures out everything about your health", whether it be LDL, weight, cholesterol ratio, activity level, etc. All of the numbers are important.

[@HealingLifeKwikly]

No, LDL doesn't determine everything about your health, but it is very well-documented that elevated LDL is causal in heart disease. Hint: truly normal LDL is more like 35-70. Eating a balanced diet that is very low in fat and mostly or entirely whole food plant-based diet with lower sodium intake and lots of leafy greens should help with the chest pains and palpitations.

[@jeffreybritton3338]

I ran your situation through an AI large language model llama3-70b. Here is the response “I'm not a doctor, but I can try to provide some general insights and suggestions. Please consult a medical professional for personalized advice. Chess pain and heart palpitations can be alarming and unsettling, especially when medical professionals are unable to provide a clear diagnosis. Here are some potential steps you could consider: 1. **Keep a symptom journal**: Track when the chess pain and heart palpitations occur, how long they last, and any potential triggers or relieving factors. This can help you identify patterns and provide valuable information for your healthcare providers. 2. **Consult a specialist**: Consider seeing a cardiologist or an electrophysiologist (a doctor specializing in heart rhythm disorders) to rule out any underlying heart conditions. They may perform additional tests, such as an electrocardiogram (ECG), echocardiogram, or a stress test, to evaluate your heart's function. 3. **Explore anxiety and stress**: Chess pain and heart palpitations can be symptoms of anxiety or stress. A mental health professional, such as a therapist or counselor, can help you develop coping strategies and address any underlying emotional issues. 4. **Investigate potential causes**: Consider the following potential causes and discuss them with your healthcare providers: * **Caffeine and nicotine**: Both can trigger heart palpitations and chest pain. Try reducing or eliminating these substances to see if symptoms improve. * **Dehydration**: Inadequate hydration can lead to heart palpitations. Make sure to drink plenty of water throughout the day. * **Electrolyte imbalance**: An imbalance of electrolytes like potassium, magnesium, or sodium can contribute to heart palpitations. Ensure you're getting adequate amounts of these essential minerals through your diet or supplements. * **Hormonal changes**: Hormonal fluctuations, such as those experienced during menopause or thyroid disorders, can cause heart palpitations. * **Sleep apnea**: This condition can lead to heart palpitations and chest pain. If you're experiencing sleep disturbances, consult a sleep specialist. 5. **Consider alternative explanations**: While it's essential to rule out underlying medical conditions, it's also possible that your symptoms might be related to other factors, such as: * **Costochondritis**: Inflammation of the cartilage that connects the ribs to the breastbone, which can cause chest pain. * **Precordial catch syndrome**: A benign condition characterized by chest pain and tenderness, often triggered by anxiety or stress. * **Musculoskeletal issues**: Chest pain can be caused by muscle strains or injuries. 6. **Seek a second opinion**: If you're not satisfied with the care you've received so far, consider seeking a second opinion from a different primary care physician or specialist. 7. **Stay calm and patient**: It may take some time to find the underlying cause of your symptoms. Focus on managing your stress and anxiety, and try to stay calm and patient throughout the process. Remember, it's essential to work with your healthcare providers to determine the best course of action for your specific situation.”

[@manoharan6231]

Chest pain with palpitations sometimes due to your anxiety which leads to terrible panic attack.. I gone thru this many many times.. at last it was diagnosed as just anxiety

[@LydiaZ36]

If we are going to appeal to insurance companies, maybe we should look at why Kaiser Permanante promotes WFPB.

[@tradingbot401]

Since I was a child, I have always wanted to eat fatty zoonotic products. For example, at bonfires with my family, I always refused bread to sausage, preferring to eat 3 sausages instead of slogging my way through a bun and bread or campfire potatoes. In my pre-school, school days I was explained how vegetables were 'healthy', I tried to eat them in larger quantities than zoonotic products. This was also the diet I was given. I have struggled with obesity all my life, while being a very athletic person (10 years of judo). Unfortunately, I used to have back and headaches during training(through my spine), I was considered a simulant. Years later I realised that I had scoliosis of more than 30 degrees on the cobb scale. As an adult, I realised that I had been experiencing constant back pain since I was a child and that it had become a daily occurrence for me, so I didn't notice it when it wasn't getting worse. The pains sometimes increased after major exertions to the point that I was forced to lie in bed for a week, having difficulty getting to the toilet. In early adulthood I switched to a ketogenic diet, from 113kg my weight dropped to 90kg, this was a success for me, but it had no effect on my ongoing pains. I went back to a "normal" diet where I ate carbohydrates along with zoonotic products, then I switched to a vegan diet where I felt energetically better than on a "normal" diet, I lasted on it for 5 years, thinking it was a good diet, better than the typical European diet. Over the years I read a lot about the carnivore diet and the vegan diet. The carnivore diet seemed to me to be too magical for there to be real results. I had big doubts about the microbiome and gut issues. These doubts were dispelled for me by the cases of people who cured carnivore with irritable bowel syndrome, Chron's disease.... Two people close to me cured perpetual depression for years in just a few months with this diet. Too many miracles spoke for this diet. My father suffered a heart attack, 3 bypasses. He was a great lover of meat and vegetables at the same time. He struggled for years with obesity and gout. He almost died from a heart attack and my brother and I, who had been on a carnivore diet for 3 years, had to remedy this. I decided to go on the carnivore diet with Father. Father is in better shape than ever, he is 74 years old. He has energy he hasn't had in the last 30 years! The effects of the diet on my health are even more incredible! I haven't had any pains for six months, I exercise less than I did on the vegan diet, and I finally have visible results from these exercises. I don't need any "rehabilitation" offered by the health service. I have become a 100% happy person, I am doing things that I would not have been able to imagine six months ago. In fact, I can picture myself lying in bed motionless for 72h, crying in pain. The carnivore diet is doing wonders we cannot imagine. I believe it is the only right diet and that vegetables are just poisonous! I believe that my scoliosis, like the scoliosis of millions of people, is the result of malnutrition due to vegetable consumption! I also believe that most health problems are the result of vegetables in the diet. Let's not demonise meat. Meat heals! Meat is the only proper food for humans, no one can deny that! I would add that I have always loved growing plants. Being vegan I ate mostly my vegetables, naturally grown, including 3 types of beans!

[@anawilliams7342]

Thank you! Impeccable in content and tone!

[@Viva-Longevity]

Are you Andy's daughter?!!!

[@anawilliams7342]

@@Viva-Longevity Nope, just an admirer of your style!

[@Viva-Longevity]

@@anawilliams7342 Thanks! One of my besties is Andy Williams and his daughter Ana (Anna?) is wonderful.

[@caroleatkins1520]

Well I know who I trust! Thank you for another great subject and how you addressed it...I'll keep eating my WFPB diet thanks 😊

[@ricardocarrion6366]

Genuinely looking for feedback on this, not a doctor but very interested in this topic. My understanding is that LDL by itself doesn't cause heart disease but rather oxidized LDL does. I think of it similar to BMI, usually having a high BMI is bad for you, in so far as it measures excess body fat, but gaining an extra 10lb of muscle vs 10lb of fat has wildly different effects on health. Likewise an increase in LDL as long as its not getting oxidized shouldn't cause an increase chance of heart disease. Its my understanding that one of the things that oxidizes LDL is high sugar in the blood, and given that the average American consumes a lot of sugar, a high LDL count in most people is bad since it's probably getting oxidized in the long term. My understanding is that the reason a lot of carnivore/keto people advocate for this position is because these diets tend to increase LDL but decrease sugar intake. They therefore argue that an increase in LDL as long as it is not oxidizing, due to less sugar intake, is not unhealthy. Im honestly not sure how controversial this position is, is it really in conflict with the overwhelming scientific position? Just someone curious about this topic.

[@HealingLifeKwikly]

Elevated LDL and/or elevated TG raise apoB, which is causal in heart disease. And no, it's not just oxidized LDL that is bad, whether it's oxidized or not, it will contribute to raising your apoB. Oxidized cholesterol IN the artery wall is a problem. The keto folks are engaging in wishful thinking that decades of research contradicts.

[@julianmeehan2781]

What you are saying is a decade or two old and taking points used by the keto and Carno crowd. Now it is thought that LDL is oxidised in the plaque. High levels or anti oxidants do not reduce oxidation in the plaque significantly, there is a flux of LDL back and forth across the endothelium which leads to plaque infimation, growth and rupture..... Other factors positively or negatively mediate this process...

[@ricardocarrion6366]

@@julianmeehan2781 So in this model LDL oxidizes at a more or less constant rate therefore you should simply try and decrease LDL levels as much as possible to decrease how much of it becomes oxidized? If anti oxidants from the diet don't significantly affect the oxidation rate does anything?

[@julianmeehan2781]

@@ricardocarrion6366 Although oxidation is an issue model where oxidation is the main driver is now old. studies where anti oxidants have been added to the diet (vitamin E) although reduced oxidised ldl have reduces atherosclerosis marginally only. Other factors as well are now considered part of the causative pathway to atherosclerosis such as Blood pressure which produces remodelling of the endothelium allowing more flow of particles to the sub endothelial layer and recently a novel pathway associated with high blood sugar... So now we know there is a constant flux across the endothelium, and that the total number of particles in the partial wall will initiate an inflammatory reaction and start the cascade towards plaques. But an ldl of about 70 or less seems to keeps the flux in balance and possible regression... However the literature suggests that many polyphenols such as those in olives, red onions and cocoa (which are also antioxidants) reduce atheroma. As one paper I found enjoyable in this space was titled something like "... quercetin ameliorates atherosclerosis... " hence I try to eat red onions everyday..

[@MichaelToub]

Great Video!

[@Viva-Longevity]

Thanks Michael! Hope you're well.

[@brianmaclean2078]

Mike is no doubt attempting to have a sensible podcast, aside from his difficulty reading data properly, he has an iron clad narrative that is imprevious to any new information outside this narrative, especially information that directly challenges his ideology.

[@Viva-Longevity]

The thing is his income depends on supplement sales and the big buyers of supplements are young males who are inclined toward high meat diets... As Upton Sinclair said so well, it is hard for a man to understand something when his income depends on him not understanding it.

[@petervafeades4095]

higher HDL comes only when there are not many insulin remnants left for the liver to dispose of - the TRG/HDL is indicative of insulin sensitivity for the reason that remnant clearance is antithetical to HDL level

[@petervafeades4095]

an HDL of 75 seems to be the sweet spot with TRG about 50

[@jd01665]

Have you covered how the plant nervous system works? Particularly, I'd like to understand more about the work of Sir Jagadis Chunder Bose. He has books from 1902 through 1927 and had tools to measure the behavior of plants like behavior of animals. He studied their nervous system. Specifically, I'd like to understand more about what is written about electrical effects on plants in The Invisible Rainbow by Firstenberg. Thank you.

[@porridge57]

Genuine question here. Trying to understand the chart at 2:41. Is it saying that, for example, a person aged 60, with a total cholesterol of 350, and a total:HDL of 9.6 or better (less), can qualify for a $100,000 life insurance policy? At this point, I’m merely trying to understand the chart. Thanks!

[@markoreaper5388]

Until one of these influencers actually die from CVD from eating all that meat, I really doubt people are going to stop listening to them and taking in what they say. For me, I have high cholesterol and i've stopped eating red meat, but i can't deny how terrible my gut feels after eating so much whole grains and vegetables. And don't even get me started with beans, my gut feels terrible when i eat them. And i've lowered the amount but it's not working. There's always some bs catch 22.

[@Mareike-aka-Mary-1337]

They very likely won't. I also had the Same digestive Problems you Had when I was a vegan and at some point I eliminated all fiber, because I could not stand the pain anymore. It was mindblowing. I don't notice when I digest food anymore. No more pain 😊 Problems with high LDL occur only there when it's oxidated, which is due to high carb, as far as I heard. Carnivores or people doing keto eat almost no carbs, so the high LDL is not oxidated and very likely No problem. But don't listen to me. Check Out Anthony Chaffee, Bart Kay and also Dr Paul Mason. They have so great Infos. It might change your live and Help you get rid of your diseaese. I wish you all the best ❤

[@dj.h7424]

@@Mareike-aka-Mary-1337Better check out Joel Fuhrman and Will Bulsiewicz, I learned after doing keto for a couple of years that I needed to adapt my microbiome gradually over a few months, introducing beans, starches, more veggies and fruit slowly, and then WFPB became very easy and natural; my gut functionality is the best it’s ever been, bloods and bp spot on at last!!. The carnivore influencers really are a danger in my opinion, and the paid trolling by low carb/carnivores is real, that’s where the real conspiracy is, in my opinion.

[@Liam-z5h8x]

I've seen them have heart attacks and literally have people sneak them in butter and bacon. There's no helping some people

[@michaelchristensen2786]

Check out Bruno Panucci of the stream LowCarbHealth&Fitness. He just had open heart surgery to address heart issues and is still a hardcore carnivore. If that does make you rethink your choices I doubt anything will.

[@sethboviper]

That was a pretty darn effective refutation! funny that he used out of date info and cherry picked it wrong anyway

[@jmatthewssmith]

Hi, you didn't tell us about Tasting History w/Max Miller. He has old books and may be a resource. If you come across old recipes, he'd probably appreciate knowing. I am still hoping you dive into the Castor oil rabbit hole. From what I am seeing, I don't know if I use it for 1 or 49 uses? Seed oils can be useful. Dose and application are key. Again, thanks for all you do.

[@Viva-Longevity]

Great suggestion! I was just about to contact Ken Albala about interviewing him about olde diet books. I need to contact Max too. 🙏

[@ddpwe5269]

lol, that brings me back to the old days when I was working security and our entire team would get food from a local restaurant, named Dangerous Dan's. I can't remember the other names on the menu, but the majority of us all ordered the 'Coronary Burger'. I can't remember what was in it, but I know it had several paddies of beef, bacon and eggs that NEVER fit in the bun! LOLz That was 20+ years ago and still shudder at the fact I used to do that, even if it was only a once-per-week thing.

[@Maccalad]

im 29 years old. 7 years vegan. LDL 36 HDL 43

[@peterpan408]

Hows your T? 🤣

[@Maccalad]

@@peterpan408 530

[@HealingLifeKwikly]

@@peterpan408 "Hows your T?" Research has found vegans to have just as high T as meat eaters.

[@Maccalad]

@@peterpan408 540

[@YaYippieYeah]

@@peterpan408 Can you reference any study that shows a correlation between cholesterol und testosteron in healthy, not eldery, men?

[@Battery-kf4vu]

What do you think of the new paper "Is LDL cholesterol associated with long-term mortality among primary prevention adults? A retrospective cohort study from a large healthcare system"?

[@Viva-Longevity]

It's a very interesting idea and I would love another solid data set, well analyzed to compare with Framingham's and Harvard's, for example. But this one has some enormous gaps. For example, these patients were arriving at an age where their physicians would have prescribed statins for the ones with elevated cholesterol. But all this data set knows is they were statin free for the first year. If the Framingham & Harvard patterns hold, the ones with higher LDL would have been prescribed statins, reducing their mortality, but we wouldn't know from this data. We don't know if they got blood pressure meds, what the cause of death was, etc. The Framingham and Harvard studies were designed for this purpose and had very qualified heart specialists involved. This paper used old information and now false info from insurance companies, etc.

[@Battery-kf4vu]

@@Viva-Longevity Thank you. The devil is in the detail indeed.

[@Viva-Longevity]

Thanks. It's pretty depressing that the BMJ keeps publishing papers like this from this particular co-author (David Diamond, from a department of psychology who has never been involved in heart disease research), but they do get views.

[@amizan8653]

Thank you for all you do, debunking anti vegan bs

[@Lulu-kt6gr]

I’m buying the bean burgers!! Thank you!

[@zamolxezamolxe8131]

My LDL is at 159, hdl 77, triglyceride as well as perfect. I also had scans done, and other tests which showed my arteries are just fine. Blood pressure is 110/68 or something like that. It is all about to stay away from toxins like alcohol and cigaretts and stress and eat clean. The rest is just a hype and influencing

[@dontworrybehappy5139]

I think you made a small mistake when talking about the cholesterol to HDL ratio at 1:40 when you state that HDL only needs to be 20 for them to consider you for the best rates. It seems to me this means you were plugging in the LDL cholesterol value of 100 instead of the TOTAL cholesterol number which I believe is normally recommended to be under 200. If the total cholesterol guidance number of 200 is used then the HDL needs to be 40 or higher to get a ratio under 5.0.

[@Viva-Longevity]

That's correct, thank you. It was a careless error.

[@veganfortheanimals6994]

People love to hear good things about their bad habits....LDL deniers remind me of flat-earthers....

[@kovy689]

Yup

[@brucejensen3081]

But the earth is flat and on the other side high ldl is actually good for you

[@kovy689]

@@brucejensen3081 Good joke.

[@LucasDeschamps-ch1jh]

only a vegan would make such a strong argument

[@Amanda_downunder]

People want an excuse to still eat heaps of animal protein / meat, etc !!

[@Mareike-aka-Mary-1337]

There are more than one 😂

[@LucasDeschamps-ch1jh]

Framingham study data is public but what/how it gets published is misleading. Tens of dozens of researchers have gone thru the data and found a recurring theme: LDL did not predict CV events. Moreover, recent data from Miami heart study and Dave Feldman's further reinforces this finding (categorically).

[@magyararon6918]

5:26 most low carb people have SUPER LOW trigs(like, bottom 5% of population), how is this relevant?

[@desmomotodesmomoto2033]

5 years on high fat carnivore diet. Best decision of my life.

[@GregariousAntithesis]

Pubmed 28 mar 2024 Design: Retrospective cohort study. Setting: Electronic medical record data for adults, from 4 January 2000 through 31 December 2022, were extracted from the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center healthcare system. Is LDL cholesterol associated with long-term mortality among primary prevention adults? A retrospective cohort study from a large healthcare system Conclusions: Among primary prevention-type patients aged 50-89 years without diabetes and not on statin therapy, the lowest risk for long-term mortality appears to exist in the wide LDL-C range of 100-189 mg/dL, which is much higher than current recommendations. For counselling these patients, minimal consideration should be given to LDL-C concentration.

[@Jeffs60]

The average LDL cholesterol of a centenarian is about 110 mg/dL.

[@GregariousAntithesis]

@@Jeffs60 source

[@Jeffs60]

2010 article title: Discovery of Novel Sources of Vitamin B12 in Traditional Korean Foods from Nutritional Surveys of Centenarians. The lowest LDL was 90 and the highest was 145 mg/dL and this is similar to all other centenarians around the world regardless of where they live on the globe.

[@GregariousAntithesis]

@@Jeffs60 and i can provide many more sources that are more like the 20 year example i provided. I like the fact they used medical records to quantify the data. Its pretty black and white. Cholesterol is junk science a fools errand

[@GregariousAntithesis]

@@Jeffs60 not only that its not a US study

[@lorah3005]

👍 Whole food plant based for the environment and health; vegan for the victims!

[@beepbeepnj2658]

Famous NYC investor Irving Kahn who lived to age 109 thought his long life was due to his love of work and a good diet. He had 3 other siblings all who lived past 100 including 1 sister who thought a fun life was drinking, smoking, eating rich foods and nightlife. A researcher found out all 4 had high levels of HDL cholesterol and a slightly underactive thyroid or what would be a slightly elevated TSH in their genetics. Nothing was mentioned about their LDL cholesterol level.

[@findingthereal9052]

Irrelevant.

[@JakeRichardsong]

An anecdote that has no relationship to science.

[@StanDupp6371]

Gerald Ford in the 1970's his health report said he had a total cholesterol of 275 mg/dL which was considered good since the range at that time was 150-300, he lived until 93. In 1980 Jimmy Carter had a total cholesterol level of 229 mg/dL which was considered good since the cut off changed to 230, he has never had any heart problems. In 2018 Trump with a BMI of 30 and a life time LDL of 200 mg/dL had it lowered to 143 with some medicines and he had a perfect stress test and very good blood pressure levels and no diabetes, low triglycerides and high HDL in the 70's mg/dL and has never had any health problems. Obama eats 4-6 eggs every day and had an LDL of around 138 mg/dL and a CT Calcium score of zero in a 2010 physical but was considered the most fit president. Mike Pence had an LDL cholesterol level of about 150 mg/dL but the doctors said that was ok at that time.

[@HealingLifeKwikly]

None of that proves anything. The best research proves they would have been even healthier with lower LDL levels. P.S. Someone with a CAC score of 0 can have plenty of plaque in their arteries: In fact, the vast majority of people in western nations have progressively worsening atherosclerosis from childhood on.

[@sdmkxvii]

lol there was no way that trumps bmi was 30. You’d have to be blind to think that the doctor was truthful about trumps weight.

[@JakeRichardsong]

Not in the least relevant.

[@StanDupp6371]

@@JakeRichardsong Public health records of Presidents are not relevant? What would be relevant someone ordering yum yum dim sum?

[@welanduzfullo8496]

the carnivore bro got buried alive by good old science based uncle chompers 😭

[@porridge57]

Okay, I just want to know the truth and be healthy. I don’t care about being “right”. Many of you, on both sides of this issue, seem credible. I don’t know about studies and research, but please explain to me my personal situation. Male, age 65, low triglycerides, normal HDL, normal BP, low inflammation markers, lp(a) is

[@Viva-Longevity]

That's a very good question, porridge. LDL is only one marker and your others are so outstanding. It seems to me the only way to know for sure is an imaging test to measure soft plaques. I had numbers like yours until my late 40s and I did have significant plaque buildup.

[@porridge57]

@@Viva-Longevity Okay, I’ll ask for it. What is the specific name of the test to which you refer? Thanks!

[@porridge57]

@@allencrider I may end up doing that…depending on the best judgement call I can make given so much conflicting information. But I am open to it. A bit nervous about some of the side effects, though.

[@kentroskelley1389]

Are you whole food plant based? I didn’t see in your message.

[@porridge57]

@@kentroskelley1389 No, I have recently started adding more fruits and vegetables in, but for the past year or so I have been low carb…almost keto. But I’m starting to wonder if that’s right.

[@user-cd9ui4qv4q]

What about high ApoB (A)?

[@apriljohnson6191]

Excellent as always.

[@Viva-Longevity]

Thanks April! Good idea. Are you talking about Natalie Ward's paper? There does seem to be a small association between lp(a) and diabetes, but it doesn't seem to be causal-a mystery. journals.lww.com/co-endocrinology/abstract/2021/04000/lipoprotein__a__and_diabetes_mellitus__causes_and.14.aspx

[@apriljohnson6191]

@@Viva-Longevity I actually saw other videos, but didn’t know the original referenced paper. I’d love to hear the skinny from you on this fat molecule. Your videos have been very informative and allows me to have a more intelligent conversation with my doctor. I think she’s impressed with me. Thank you for that. :-)

[@Viva-Longevity]

@@apriljohnson6191 The thing about lp(a) is it's largely genetic and, as far as I know, there are no drugs yet to lower it. I invited the head of Framingham's Heart Study to give a TEDx talk on longevity and he surprised me to say the title of his talk will be "Choose your parents well." So, if we can't do anything about it yet, what's left? In my view, it's to work on the things we can control - how much we exercise, LDL-C, etc. All the more reason to work on those things if we did inherit a predisposition to lp(a), no?

[@apriljohnson6191]

I have heard from other KZbinrs on others stating that LPa being high means that other risk factors need more intensive lowering. Dr Gregor talked about some studies showed LPa was lowered in 20% of cases using some drugs. What’s up with that? I look forward to your next video, whatever you decide. They are all awesome!!

[@superspeederbooster]

thank you!

[@waynetrenton2310]

model estimated that statin therapy increases average life expectancy in the study population by 0.3 years and average CVD-free life expectancy by 0.7 years

[@Viva-Longevity]

What model?

[@tiitulitii]

You cannot set normal limits like that because they depends on your diet, age, race etc..

[@Viva-Longevity]

Hence the Framingham risk calculator.

[@VeganLinked]

Wait a minute, I buy the bean burgers! Why did you say nobody's buying the bean burgers! I've been buying bean burgers since the '90s before I even went vegan 🙂 backyard Burger had a really great one at app State University where I went to college! It was that or a bean burrito no queso at Taco Bell 💚 Pre-learning how to cook days...

[@Viva-Longevity]

That makes two of us!

[@waynetrenton2310]

The median postponement of death for primary and secondary prevention trials were 3.2 and 4.1 days, respectively. Study by BMJ, you can google the study.

[@HealingLifeKwikly]

LDL of 70-100 is still elevated LDL, so that's the wrong target. By getting LDL and apoB into the truly healthy range (e.g., LDL =30-70) and keeping them there for a lifetime, and by not smoking, you essentially wipe out ALL risk of heart disease, meaning all rick of diminished functioning due to atherosclerosis and all risk of a major CVD event. However, why keep your LDL in the normal range with a drug when you can eat a very low-fat whole food plant-based diet and enjoy all the health benefits of that.

[@beepbeepnj2658]

@@HealingLifeKwikly The average LDL cholesterol of a centenarian is about 110 mg/dL so that means in midlife it was a little bit higher.

[@HealingLifeKwikly]

@@beepbeepnj2658 "The average LDL cholesterol of a centenarian is about 110 mg/dL so that means in midlife it was a little bit higher." That's a data point which proves exactly nothing.

[@beepbeepnj2658]

@@HealingLifeKwikly You can read one study not funded by any food, pharma or religious organization and the title is "Discovery of Novel Sources of Vitamin B12 in Traditional Korean Foods from Nutritional Surveys of Centenarians." The lowest LDL cholesterol level of the centenarians was about 90 mg/dL and the highest was about 145 mg/dL and these numbers are similar in all civilizations around the world so it proves that you are wrong which is why you can't back up your claim with any exact science or statistics.

[@HealingLifeKwikly]

@@beepbeepnj2658 Thanks for your reply. "You can read one study...and these numbers are similar in all civilizations around the world so it proves that you are wrong which is why you can't back up your claim with any exact science or statistics." I'm a senior university professor and researcher, and part of what I study and teach about is healthy nutrition and the reasons for confusion about it. Based on that experience, here are a couple of thoughts: 1) You seem to be assuming that whatever the LDL of centenarians is proves that this is the healthiest LDL for humans. However, that is assuming that correlation is causation, which is a very big "no-no" in science. In short, that data can't possibly prove what you suggested it proved. It's just the wrong tool for drawing that kind of conclusion. MOST nutrition research studies, by themselves, cannot possibly be used for drawing definitive conclusions about cause and effect. 1A) For example, it's possible that these folks lived this long DESPITE elevated LDL levels, not because of them. Thus, maybe they would have lived even longer and there would have been more far more centenarians if they and the rest of the culture they came from had much lower LDL levels. 1B) There are theoretical reasons for believing that the cholesterol needs of people over 85 are different than those who are younger, so even if elevated LDL levels WERE beneficial for very old people, we still have lots of research proving that they are harmful and atherogenic for younger people. 2) "these numbers are similar in all civilizations around the world" Actually, they are not. The average LDL levels of many remaining hunter-gatherer tribes (excepting the Inuit, who live in extreme conditions, eat an extreme diet, and die young) are more like 50-55. This is interesting, because they don't eat the junk we eat and because an LDL of 50-55 is the LDL level of a healthy newborn baby, and because that's the LDL level of most mammals who don't develop heart disease. Finally, in experimental studies, we see that as LDL is driven down towards ~70, less and less plaque forms and fewer and fewer major CVD events happen. If you can get LDL down to around 50 or 45, existing plaques start to shrink. In contrast, in long-term and experimental studies, the higher LDL goes above 70, and the longer it stays unnaturally elevated, the more plaque forms and the more major CVD events there are. In fact, all other things being equal, the amount of plaque in arteries is predicted well by how high a person's LDL is elevated times the number of years it is unnaturally elevated. Beyond that, there are all sorts of reasons that people have gotten confused about the effects of elevated LDL on CVD and health, including mislabeled studies (groups with elevated LDL being mislabeled as having normal or "low" LDL levels), and also confusion caused by reverse causality. Take care.

[@andanssas]

9:03 just amazing... Thank you for showing how obvious the cherry picking is. Paul Mason'd love you to review all his presentation papers 😂